technique for gopher blasting?
Brian Garber-Yonts
and either gassing them out or actually detonating the gas. I understand
that adding water to a small mound of, I think, ammonium chloride
crytals creates acetylene gas, which either forces the critters out due
to lack of oxygen, or you can actually blast them. Can anyone
corroberate that ammonium chloride is the stuff to use?
Thanks
Brian Garber-Yonts
Waldek Trafidlo
: Does anyone have any information on injecting gas into gopher warrens
I am quite sure that ammonium chloride will not give you acetylene.
To get acetylene you need calcium carbide, which reacts with water
to produce the gas. In the right proportion of acetylene and air you should
get quite a bang when the mixture is ignited - from a distance. As kids we
would place some calcium carbide in a small puddle of water and cover it with
a heavy metal lid from a garbage can. The lid had a small hole on the top.
After a minute or so it would be set off with a piece of paper burning on
the end of a *long* stick. I still remember the thrill of seeing the lid
take off at least 8ft in the air and the shock wave shaking our 7-8yr
old bodies. You may want to try something similar, but think about safety
of whatever setup you choose, ie. staying away from flying debris and/or
the fireball. Good luck.
--
__o
_`\<._ waldek trafidlo
_____(*)/`(*)_________ bo...@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca
0l/100km!
S. Plunkett
> I am quite sure that ammonium chloride will not give you acetylene.
> To get acetylene you need calcium carbide, which reacts with water
> to produce the gas. In the right proportion of acetylene and air you should
> get quite a bang when the mixture is ignited - from a distance.
Trying to remember, but isn't acetylene lighter than air? You'd have
to drop in the crystals so that they get far enough inside then add
water to make sure you're acetylene doesn't just dissipate.
But then again, as a naturalist/conservationist, I'd probably just
live with them.
> --
> __o
> _`\<._ waldek trafidlo
> _____(*)/`(*)_________ bo...@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca
> 0l/100km!
>
Nice sig!
__o "Think Globally
_'\ <; Bike Locally"
(*)/(*)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Scott J. Plunkett splu...@ccs.carleton.ca
Endangered Plants and Invertebrates in Canada program (EPIC)
Canadian Nature Federation
=============================================================================
Waldek Trafidlo
: Waldek Trafidlo (bo...@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca) wrote:
: > I am quite sure that ammonium chloride will not give you acetylene.
: > To get acetylene you need calcium carbide, which reacts with water
: > to produce the gas. In the right proportion of acetylene and air you should
: > get quite a bang when the mixture is ignited - from a distance.
: Trying to remember, but isn't acetylene lighter than air? You'd have
: to drop in the crystals so that they get far enough inside then add
: water to make sure you're acetylene doesn't just dissipate.
Now you really stretching my memory here, but I believe gasses with molecular
weight of more than 28 are heavier than air. Acetylene - C2H2 - is
26 which indeed would make it slightly lighter. The explosion has to take
place in an enclosed space or the gas will just burn with a flimsy flame
as it bubbles off. I would imagine that blowing up gophers this way presents
some problems as one cannot just flood the hole or the water would block
the shock wave. The water with calcium carbide would have to be very close
to the hole in a separate container and the whole thing covered with a lid
of some sort to contain the forming mixture. As to the gas escaping
through the small hole in the lid it was never a problem in our
experiments, probably because the gas is quite heavy and time required
for a proper mix to form was only a minute or so.
Regards,
Lori Vratsanos
: : Does anyone have any information on injecting gas into gopher warrens
: : and either gassing them out or actually detonating the gas. I understand
: : that adding water to a small mound of, I think, ammonium chloride
: : crytals creates acetylene gas, which either forces the critters out due
: : to lack of oxygen, or you can actually blast them. Can anyone
: : corroberate that ammonium chloride is the stuff to use?
Our local Agway sells 'groundhog cartridges' which give off carbon
monoxide. You light the fuse, drop one in each hole, and cover with a
rock. The CO builds up in the warren and poisons the groundhog. Not as
much fun as an explosion, but more humane....
Lori
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lori Vratsanos Opinions are my own, not my employer's.
vrat...@ttown.apci.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Waldek Trafidlo
: Our local Agway sells 'groundhog cartridges' which give off carbon
: monoxide. You light the fuse, drop one in each hole, and cover with a
: rock. The CO builds up in the warren and poisons the groundhog. Not as
: much fun as an explosion, but more humane....
^^^^^^
Huh? You got me here. Is it more fun to die of CO poisoning than of shock
wave? --
Didi Pearce
>Lori Vratsanos (vrat...@ttown.apci.com) wrote:
>: Our local Agway sells 'groundhog cartridges' which give off carbon
>: monoxide. You light the fuse, drop one in each hole, and cover with a
>: rock. The CO builds up in the warren and poisons the groundhog. Not as
>: much fun as an explosion, but more humane....
> ^^^^^^
>Huh? You got me here. Is it more fun to die of CO poisoning than of shock
>wave? --
> __o
> _`\<._ waldek trafidlo
Yes - CO poisoning causes the animal/person to fall asleep and die in its
sleep - a fairly easy way to go if killing is necessary.
Didi Pearce
grace delcano
>
>Our local Agway sells 'groundhog cartridges' which give off carbon
>monoxide. You light the fuse, drop one in each hole, and cover with a
>rock. The CO builds up in the warren and poisons the groundhog. Not as
>much fun as an explosion, but more humane....
>
We've tried those cartridges, but I think our gopher/mole tunnels are so extensive that the little monsters have escaped suffocation=
so far. We've also tried flooding the tunnels, with our dog poised to eat any escapees. We've also tried the juicy fruit gum techni=
que. With the 4th of July just over, we got a bunch of smoke bombs at half-price and have been shoving those in. None of this has st=
opped them, and they are closing in on my vegetable garden. It's getting sort of amusing, like "gee, what can we do to annoy the mol=
es this weekend?". My dad dropped off a bunch of road flares, he thinks if we set them off in the tunnels we can give them little mo=
le-heart attacks...
Seriously, we may resort to poison. We haven't wanted to because our dog digs and she might get into the stuff. Or we might keep up =
the smoke bomb/flooding/putting annoying stuff in the tunnel method...
Grace Delcano
Cathy E Beyer
: We've tried those cartridges, but I think our gopher/mole tunnels are so extensive that the little monsters have escaped suffocation=
: so far.
I used the cartridges a number of times now. Just got through with round
5, and the !%$@%$^&#%&!&^*$% woodchucks have opened the den again! Still
have a few more cartridges. Last time the guy at Agway told me to smoke
them out at night, because they aren't in their dens during the daytime.
Well, we must have missed an opening, because they're back.
Any new suggestions for getting the cartridge technique to work?
Cathy
Dwight Sipler
they apparently know where all the holes in the area are so they can head for the
closest one. Each burrow has at least two exits and possibly a small air hole
somewhere. One end of the hole can be found by the excavated material they throw
out, but the other end is frequently clean. They hide the hole under shrubs or
brush or debris whenever they can. In order to smoke them successfully, you have to
smoke the hole they're in at the time and you also have to be sure the other end of
the hole is blocked so the smoke stays in the burrow. This means that you have to
find ALL the holes and since you don't know which hole is connected to which other
hole, you have to bomb them all. This includes all the holes in your neighbors'
yards.
another technique is if you know that the woodchuck went into a particular hole, dig
the hole out somewhat and place a trap there so the only way out is through the
trap, then bomb all the other holes. This has the advantage of positive
identification of success or failure. With smoke bombs, you never know if you got
the beast or just drove it away for a few days. They do wander around somewhat.
If you catch a woodchuck in a trap, don't take it somewhere and release it, no
matter how cute it is. Place the trap in a lake or stream until the woodchuck is
dead. Woodchucks are not protected species. There is no shortage of woodchucks.
One less woodchuck will make the world a better place for humans. In Massachusetts,
it is also illegal to transport wild animals. If you can't bring yourself to
dispatch the woodchuck, call a local farmer. Most farmers will consider it a civic
duty to assist in the proper disposition of woodchucks, even in planting time.
Note that if you leave a hole open, even if you got the woodchuck, another will come
along to occupy the hole. Fill it in as thoroughly as you can, not just on the
surface, but dig into it a couple of feet and stir the earth to make sure that any
scent is buried. If you just cover the hole, it's a 30 second job for another
woodchuck to open it up again.
Note that finding all the holes is important. The best time to look for holes is in
the spring, before the vegetation has really gotten out of hand. At that time you
can get behind or under the shrubbery to look. Also, the woodchucks tend to have
litters in the spring, so if you find some holes, bomb them. The kits will go out
on their own and dig new holes in late spring, so prevention is a good idea.
Having a large or moderately agressive dog about the property is probably the
easiest thing. The dog doesn't have to catch the woodchuck. Just having the dog
around and threatening the woodchuck will encourage it to look elsewhere, so the
problem will be transferred to your neighbors. If your dog brings you a bloody
woochuck, (1) praise him and (2) make sure it's dead, not just stunned. Place it in
a bucket of water and weight it down. If you don't have a bucket of water handy,
cut its head off (a shovel works well for this and isn't too messy and you can use
it to cart the woodchuck off afterwards).
Whenever you see a woodchuck on the road, be sure to swerve to avoid not hitting it.
I have had only about 10% success using smoke bombs on the holes. Maybe 20% with
traps. Unfortunately logistical considerations prevent my having a dog. The 12
gauge has gotten a couple, but they are usually around when I'm not. I only got one
with the truck.
Good luck.
Dwight Sipler
possible into the hole before they go off. Also probe the hole before lighting the
bomb so you know which direction to stuff the stick in. Have a shovelful of dirt
handy to start covering the hole quickly. Get everything ready, position the stick
just over the hole and light, stuff and cover. (I use one of the butane lighters
with a long snout for lighting gas grills. It's easier to use than a match and you
can just stick it in your pocket until you're ready, pull it out and press the
trigger. I toss it to the side when the fuse lights and concentrate on the job at
hand. Get a bright red one so you can find it again in the brush.)
The cartridges are kind of general purpose devices for all sorts of burrowing
animals, large and small, so since the woodchucks are on the large end of the
spectrum I sometimes use two cartridges at once. Some cartridges will burn through
and will light the next in sequence and some have enough room to stick two fuses in
so that the first cartridge will light the second fuse. If you do this dig one up
sometime to check that the second one is burned.
grace delcano
>I used the cartridges a number of times now. Just got through with round
>5, and the !%$@%$^&#%&!&^*$% woodchucks have opened the den again! Still
>have a few more cartridges. Last time the guy at Agway told me to smoke
>them out at night, because they aren't in their dens during the daytime.
>Well, we must have missed an opening, because they're back.
>
>Any new suggestions for getting the cartridge technique to work?
>
>Cathy
>
You might want to dig up the old cartridges to make sure they burned down all the way. The gophers/moles here have actually pushed t=
he old cartridges out of the tunnels and some of them look like they went out before they burned down all the way. I guess I covered=
the holes a little too enthusiastically after putting the lit cartridges in and smothered a few. I heard the advice about bombing t=
hem at night also, but I've also actually seen dirt flying out of the holes in the middle of they day. I guess my gophers don't have=
day jobs to go to.
We've switched to poison pellets. Not working. We're going to try flooding again. I bought one of those electronic "critter ridders"=
which give off some high-pitched noises that gophers supposedly can't stand. Put it right in the middle of the vegetable garden. Th=
e gopher mounds have popped up about 30-40 feet from the garden, but haven't advanced any further. Geez, it sounds like a real battl=
e, doesn't it?
Grace Delcano
(who shouts, "Die gophers die!" when she puts smoke bombs in the tunnels)
Don R. Stephens
In article <3ujfiu$b...@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> (rec.gardens), Dwight Sipler <d...@hyperion.haystack.edu> writes:
>When using the smoke bombs tape them to a stick so you can force them as far as
.................................(EDITED)......................
...................................................If you do this dig one up
>
I use highway flares. I open the tunnel up enough that I can stick my arm
down in it. So far I have only touched the gopher once! (It scared the
daylights out of me.) Then,I light the flare and shove down into the runway as
far as I can. And as quickly as possible back out and cover the entrance with
a rock then dirt. Thus far I have been able to eliminate the critters for a
week or two. My problem is that my neighbor never does anything about his
gophers and over the years they have a well established runway into my yard.
Thus, every two or three weeks I have the joy (?) of going after another one.
Usually one flare is enough to do the kiss off.
Don
-------------------------------------
Don R. Stephens d...@tiller.eris.org
Dwight Sipler
bombs but they have the advantage that they have their own lighter and they burn
longer. However, I suspect that they carry their own oxidizer so that the gases
they produce are light on carbon monoxide or whatever. I tried to remedy this by
putting a pile of self-lighting charcoal briquettes down the hole and laying the
flare on top of it. I figured that the flare would light the charcoal, which would
then use up the oxygen in the hole. I haven't tried this enough to get a good
reading on whether it works or not.
PS: different brands of smoke bombs seem to work in different ways. They all list
ingredients sulfur, potassium nitrate and charcoal (or sawdust)(gunpowder type
stuff). Some of them smell like gunpowder and some smell like rotten eggs, from
which I assume that they are producing hydrogen sulfide somehow, which is a nice
toxic gas. Since they seem to work in different ways, they may also have different
efficacies. I haven't tried a systematic study of different brands, but you might
try to find a couple of different types and try them out.
PPS: I have also tried a couple of other things, mainly directed at finding the
other end of the burrow.
(1) I made a propane carburetor out of a piece of 3" pipe and stuck it in the hole,
trying to fill it with a propane/air mix. I then stuck a spark plug down the hole
on a long stick and made a spark (using a long extension cord). I found that you
need a minimum spark energy to light the propane/air mix and my spark plug wasn't
delivering. I then put the spark plug in another pipe, filled it with
acetylene/oxygen, covered it with plastic held on with a rubber band and put that
into the propane/air filled hole. That lit the propane, but it didn't generate a
fireball that made the other end of the hole visible. It doesn't expode, just goes
wooosh. It might singe the woodchuck, but that's all. I can just hope that it uses
the oxygen in the hole. (the hole was reopened in a couple days).
(2) I got a small 12 volt fan and attached it to a piece of 3" pipe (i have lots of
damaged irrigation pipe lying around. you might check with your local farmer if you
need some short pieces. It's aluminium and cuts easily). I then stuck an orange
smoke flare (marine supply store) in the hole and put the fan in the hole. I then
looked around the field for orange smoke. This hasn't worked yet. The last time,
things were going well for a few seconds, then the orange smoke backed up out the
fan. I think that the woodchuck was blocking the hole with his butt and not letting
any air flow through. This is also a limitation to method (1) above. I haven't
tried this too much because the orange smoke flares cost me $30 for a pack of 3.
(3) I thought that by collapsing the hole, you could make the woodchucks work harder
to re-establish the burrow and if you make them work too hard to provide cover, they
might go to an easier place to live. The propane/air mix bomb didn't disturb the
hole at all, so I need something else. Candidates are acetylene/oxygen mix, or
gasoline/air. The acetylene/oxygen is very explosive and would probably do it, but
the gasoline/air is more readily available and cheaper. I think that if I put a
small pan of gasoline down the hole and run the fan for a minute, I might get a good
mix and I can then use the spark plug on a wire. (My fan is brushless, so it
shouldn't be a problem and anyway, I can run it on a long extension cord). I
haven't tried either of these yet, so I don't know if it would collapse the hole or
not.
PPPS: Someone suggested that liquid nitrogen might do the trick. If you pour LN2
down the hole, it will evaporate, filling the hole with nitrogen and displacing the
air. If the woodchuck is in the hole he will suffocate. If not, the nitrogen will
stay in the hole and the next woodchuck to go in will suffocate. You have to block
the entrances to make sure that wind doesn't flush out the hole, but the nitrogen
should stay there for a week or more. I don't know how fast oxygen diffuses through
soil, but I wouldn't expect it to be very fast. At any rate, the molecular weight
of nitrogen is not significantly different from air, so there is no buoyant force to
make the nitrogen leave the hole. LN2 expands about 1000 times in volume from the
liquid to the gas phase. If a woodchuck hole is 12" in diameter and 100 feet long,
it will need about 100 cubic feet of gas, maybe 200 cubic feet allowing for possible
large chambers, insertion loss and diffusion of nitrogen into surrounding soil.
This then requires 0.2 cubic feet of liquid nitrogen or about 1.5 gallons or about
6 liters. If you find a source of LN2, you can carry it in an inexpensive plastic
cooler as long as you leave a vent for the gas to escape. I haven't tried this yet.
If anyone has any luck with any of these methods please let me know.
email: d...@hyperion.haystack.edu
Timothy Kooney
>From: Dwight Sipler <d...@hyperion.haystack.edu>
>Subject: Re: Re: technique for gopher blasting?
>Date: 20 Jul 1995 13:42:47 GMT
>(1) I made a propane carburetor out of a piece of 3" pipe and stuck it in the hole,
>trying to fill it with a propane/air mix. I then stuck a spark plug down the hole
>on a long stick and made a spark (using a long extension cord). I found that you
>need a minimum spark energy to light the propane/air mix and my spark plug wasn't
>delivering. I then put the spark plug in another pipe, filled it with
>acetylene/oxygen, covered it with plastic held on with a rubber band and put that
>into the propane/air filled hole. That lit the propane, but it didn't generate a
>fireball that made the other end of the hole visible. It doesn't expode, just goes
>wooosh. It might singe the woodchuck, but that's all. I can just hope that it uses
>the oxygen in the hole. (the hole was reopened in a couple days).
Be careful with acetylene. It is explosive in virtually all proportions with
air and can ignite with a very small static discharge. That said, US forces
used acetylene in Vietnam to blast underground bunkers so it probably is
pretty good for gophers. You can rent a small tank from a welders supply
with a deposit and a small fee. The gas could be safely ignited by placing a
piece of cannon fuse in the opening and carefully sealing with mud. The fuse
burns at about 1/2 inch per second so you could safely clear the area. Fuse
is available from most gun stores that sell blackpowder reloading supplies.
It is fairly inexpensive ($3 for 10 feet or so).
Some nuts around here were using acetylene to blast fire ant beds. It was
effective but a bit overboard when ant bait is available. An organic method
of controlling fire ants is to exchange a shovel full of two different beds.
The ants will fight and kill each other off. It does work but can take a
couple of exchanges to finish the job.
tim