Tomato Horworm = Luna Moth?
Patrick Walsh
Hello, I was looking for some information on what the giant Tomato
Hornworm might turn into. I guess I always assumed that maybe it was
just a caterpillar type animal, and not the larvae of some butterfly or
moth, but recently I've been told it is the larvae of the Luna Moth.
Anybody know the real answer? Also, what is the larvae of the
Hummingbird Moth?
I sure get plenty of Hornworms, but I've never seen a Luna Moth.
As always, thanks for the responses...
Patrick
Pat Kiewicz
In article <339370...@erols.com>, up...@erols.com says...
>
>Hello, I was looking for some information on what the giant Tomato
>Hornworm might turn into. I guess I always assumed that maybe it was
>just a caterpillar type animal, and not the larvae of some butterfly or
>moth, but recently I've been told it is the larvae of the Luna Moth.
Luna moth caterpillars feed on several types of trees and shrubs,
but not tomatoes. The tomato andtobacco horn worms (genus Manduca)
turn into gray-brown moths with orange spots on the abdomen. .
>
>Anybody know the real answer? Also, what is the larvae of the
>Hummingbird Moth?
It would be similar to the hornworms. Hummingbird moths are in
the same family of moths, the Sphinx moths (Sphingidae). There
are sphinx moths whose larvae specialize in different plants,
and several species of sphinx moths that are called 'hummingbird
moths' but I don't think tomato and tobacco horn worms are
among these.
>
>I sure get plenty of Hornworms, but I've never seen a Luna Moth.
I've only seen them once, on a visit to the Adairondacks in NY.
They were quite common flying about at night, and I saw one
resting during the day. A really lovely moth (in the family
Saturnidae).
--
Pat in Plymouth MI
Harold Olivier
On Mon, 02 Jun 1997 21:17:30 -0400, Patrick Walsh <up...@erols.com>
wrote:
>Hello, I was looking for some information on what the giant Tomato
>Hornworm might turn into. I guess I always assumed that maybe it was
>just a caterpillar type animal, and not the larvae of some butterfly or
>moth, but recently I've been told it is the larvae of the Luna Moth.
>
>Anybody know the real answer? Also, what is the larvae of the
>Hummingbird Moth?
>
>I sure get plenty of Hornworms, but I've never seen a Luna Moth.
>
>As always, thanks for the responses...
>
>Patrick
The Luna Moth is one of the Giant Silkworm Moths, classified in the
family Saturniidae. The Tomato Hornworm is a Sphinx or Hawk Moth, in
the family Sphingidae. Apparently, one or more of the Sphinx moths is
commonly called Hummingbird Moth because the Sphinx Moths have a very
rapid wingbeat and feed from flowers while hovering in front of them,
much like hummingbirds. Incidentally, Giant Silkworm Moths have
reduced mouth parts and do not feed.
The Tomato Hornworm caterpillar turns into the Tomato Hornworm Moth.
Harold
orc...@acadiacom.net
Covington, LA, USA
USDA Zone 8b
Shellie Welch
Good information. I was given a bunch of Luna caterpillars last year
and nurtured them until their cocoon stage and final relase last fall
and this spring. They get 2-3" long, are green, and have a double row
of very small barbs down their back. Mine were on sweet gum leaves, of
which they ate a TON. My experience is that most of the silkworm
larvae are on trees, i.e. Cecropia on Maple, Luna on Sweet gum, etc.
Hornworms tend to stay lower toward the ground because they actually
pupate below ground rather than in cocoons. They are the brown pupae
that you occasionally till up in the garden. (Not to be confused with
the white grubs of the damnable Japanese beetle).
Have fun1
Shellie
Zone 5
Indy
M & V
I am currently feeding a tomato hornworm in a controlled environment.
I want to watch it go through its entire metamorphosis, so any
suggestions on how to accomplish this would be greatly appreciated. I
have it in a large jar, and as it finishes eating the tomato leaves,
(which I provide) I put in more fresh leaves. It eats about one leave
per hour, right now, and it is still an infant! It poops out about 20
times an hour as well. I would really love to get this thing to become
whatever it will become, without too much stress on it. So, any info?
Victoria
Julie Steele
The tomato hornworm becomes the five-spotted hawk moth, Manduca
quinquemaculata. In it's larval stage it has 8 white 'L' shaped lines on
each side and a black edged green horn. The tobacco hornworn (which also
is found on tomato) becomes the Carolina Sphinx moth, Manduca sexta.
It's larva has 7 white lines on each side and red-tipped horn. Both of
these larvae must burrow down into the soil to make it's cocoon and
pupate. So unfortunately, you will not get to witness the event. Be
sure to provide 3-5 inches of loose soil for it to pupate in. You will
know that it is ready to pupate when it stops eating, leaves the plant
and begins to wander around in search of a pupation site. Larvae
typically feed for 28 - 36 days. You can find additional information on
this insect and other large caterpillars on the Ohio State University
factsheet HYG-2015-95, "Monster Caterpillars" by Dr. William Lyon. You
can access this factsheet at the following url;
http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~ohioline/hyg-fact/2000/2015.html
Let me know if you cannot find this and I will mail it to you.
Shellie Welch
Try posting to sci.bio.entomology.lepidoptera. They will tell you
everything you need to know. One thing I seem to remember is that
hornworms pupate below ground.
Good luck!
James Crahan
I do the same thing with my kids every year with monarch
catterpillars. You're doing everything right as far as I can tell. We
went as far as to set up a whole stack of one gallon glass jars into
little terreriums and sent them to my kid's kindergarten class to pass
out.
They will stay low while eating, but when time to form the chrysalis
<sp>, they will find something to hang from. make sure there are
twigs, etc to hang from at least. most of ours ended up hanging from
the screen that I had put on top of the jar.
As simple as it is, it's incredible to watch.
Jim Crahan Stevens Point, WI
*** Life is sexually transmitted ***
M & V
Well, it stopped eating. It was only the size of a pencil in diameter,
and I was now wondering if this was not a tomato hornworm, but a
tobacco horn worm. So, I put it back outside and it burrowed
underground. How big is a tobacco hornworm when mature to the stage of
metamorphosis? I will go to that other ng, so thanks if you don't know
these answers.
victoria
Shellie Welch
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Here is a good link for caterpillar info.
http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~ohioline/hyg-fact/2000/2015.html
One thing that I have found about the caterpillar size is that you
can't always expect them to get as large as the books say. My Luna
caterpillars last summer only got about 2 inches long and about as round
as a pencil also. The resulting moths however were different sizes.
The ones that went ahead and hatched out last fall, short pupation
period, were all rather small for Lunas - about 3 1/2" across max. The
ones that stayed pupated through the winter and hatched out a couple of
weeks ago were 4-5" across. Gorgeous!
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<H1>Ohio State University Extension Factsheet</H1>
<H2>Entomology</H2>
<H3>1991 Kenny Road, Columbus, OH 43210-1090</h3>
<hr size=1 noshade>
<H1>Giant Caterpillars</H1>
<H3>HYG-2015-95</H3>
<b>William F. Lyon</b>
<br><br>
<table border=1>
<tr>
<th colspan=2>Common Name <th>Scientific Name<tr>
<th>Larva <th>Adult<th><tr>
<td>Hickory Horned Devil <td>Regal Moth <td><I>Citheronia regalis</I> (Fabricius)<tr>
<td>Cecropia <td>Cecropia Moth <td><I>Hyalophora cecropia</I> (Linnaeus)<tr>
<td>Polyphemus <td>Polyphemus Moth <td><I>Antheraea polyphemus</I> (Cramer)<tr>
<td>Imperial <td>Imperial Moth <td><I>Eacles imperialis</I> (Drury)<tr>
<td>Luna <td>Luna Moth <td><I>Actias luna</I> (Linnaeus)<tr>
<td>Promethea <td>Promethea Moth <td><I>Callosamia promethea </I>(Drury)<tr>
<td>Tobacco Hornworm <td>Carolina Sphinx Moth <td><I>Manduca sexta </I>(Linnaeus)<tr>
<td>Tomato Hornworm <td>Five Spotted Hawk Moth <td><I>Manduca quinquemaculata</I> (Haworth)<tr>
<td>Catalpaworm <td>Catalpa Sphinx Moth <td><I>Ceratomia catalpa</I> (Boisduval)<tr>
<td>Parsleyworm <td>Black Swallowtail <td><I>Papilio polyxenes asterias</I> (Stoll)<tr>
<td>Spicebush <td>Swallowtail <td><I>Papilio troilus</I> (Linnaeus)<tr>
</table>
<br>
<P>During mid to late summer and early autumn, large, unusually shaped,
colorful caterpillars are often found or seen outdoors. These
caterpillars, larvae of moths and butterflies, feed on green leaves
of various trees, shrubs and other plants. The exact host plant or
plants vary with each species. Most caterpillars are discovered fully
grown when wandering across lawns, driveways, sidewalks, etc., on
their way to pupation (resting or overwintering) sites. It is this
time they are usually finished eating and will cause little or no
further plant damage. Therefore, controls are generally not needed.
<H3>Identification</H3>
<h4>Hickory Horned Devil</H4>
<P>This caterpillar is the larva of the Royal Walnut Moth, also known as
the Regal Moth. The larva is not one for a timid person to suddenly
discover. It has a scary, frightful appearance resembling a small
dragon with up to five pairs of long, curving hornlike structures
over the back of its thorax with the rest of the body covered with
shorter spikes. The body color ranges from deep blue-green to tan
with orange spikes tipped with black. Shorter spikes are black.
Though very ferocious appearing, it is quite harmless to handle. They
are enormous in size, being five to six inches long and nearly
3/4-inch in diameter. They feed for a period of 37 to 42 days on the
leaves of hickory, walnut, butternut, pecan, ash, lilac, persimmon,
sycamore, sumac and sweet gum. Larvae mature in late summer,
wandering around searching for a place to burrow underground to
pupate. Overwintering occurs in the pupal stage.
<P><IMG SRC="images/2015_2.jpg"</p>
<P>The moth has a wingspan of five to six inches and is seen in
midsummer. It has a long body covered with orange yellow hair. The
forewings are gray with orange veins and yellow spots. The hindwings
are primarily orange with scattered yellow patches.
<h4>Cecropia Moth Larva</H4>
<P>This caterpillar is the larvae of the Cecropia moth, also known as
the Robin moth. In the early stages, larvae are black and covered
with short bristles. In the final stage, caterpillars are about four
inches long and nearly 3/4-inch in diameter. Body color is green with
a blue tinge and there are two pairs of orange, and up to eight pairs
of yellow knob-like tubercles over the back with many smaller pale
blue and yellowish-white tipped tubercles along the sides. It feeds
on many trees and shrubs including wild cherry, plum, elderberry,
maple, willow, boxelder, apple, birch, lilac, walnut, pecan, elm,
beech and poplar. Larva are easy to rear on any species of wild
cherry.
<P><IMG SRC="images/2015_1.jpg"</p>
<P>The larval period is 35 to 60 days. In the late summer or early fall,
the larva spins an overwintering cocoon attached to a twig on the
plant where the larva fed. The adult moth has a wingspan in excess of
six inches and emerges May to July. This most beautiful moth has
black eyespots on the outer tips of the forewings and a
crescent-shaped spot in the center of each wing. The overall wing
color is dark red-brown sprinkled with gray and pink. The body is
large and covered with long, rust-red hair.
<h4>Polyphemus Moth Larva</H4>
<P>Larvae reach nearly four inches in length and appear "pushed
together" from the ends, making it accordion-shaped. Larvae are fat,
pale green, and sparsely covered with hair which are not harmful if
touched. They feed on many trees and shrubs including oak, hickory,
elm, maple, birch, apple, boxelder, cherry, chestnut, willow, ash,
grape, pine and members of the rose family. The larval period is 48
to 50 days long. In late summer or early fall, the larva spins a
rounded, tough, parchment-like cocoon in the tree or shrub in which
it has been feeding. It overwinters in this cocoon, and emerges the
following spring or summer as a very beautiful adult moth.
<P>A common giant silk moth, the male has a wingspan of nearly five
inches and the antennae are large and feathery. The wing color is
light brown with gray dusting on the forewing edges and vertical pink
lines near the body. Each hindwing has a larger yellow eyespot in a
field of dark blue to black. Small yellow eyespots occur in the
center of the forewing.
<h4>Imperial Moth Larvae</H4>
<P>Caterpillars are yellow-green (sometimes tan or dark brown) and are
covered with short, stiff hairs of light blue-green. The lower body
half is hunter green. The spiracles or breathing holes along the
sides of the body are large, bright yellow and rimmed in aqua and
black. There are four long, sharp, deep yellow spines just behind the
head and shorter, sharp spines under the hair. The head is
orange-yellow with a black inverted Y in the center. Larvae feed on
many trees and shrubs including spruce, pine, oak, maple, sycamore,
cherry, birch, alder, elm, sweet gum, sassafras, beech, cedar, and
walnut. The larval stage lasts for about 42 days after which the
larva burrows down into the ground to pupate and overwinter.
<P>Adults often emerge in May or June. The female moth is bright yellow
and speckled all over with red-brown freckles. Two small circles of
red-brown are on each forewing and one on each hindwing. A wavy band,
also of the same color, traverses the lower wing and two bands are on
the forewings. In males, the forewings are almost covered with the
red color except for a triangle at the tip and a small patch near the
bottom.
<h4>Luna Moth Larvae</H4>
<P>This caterpillar is the larva of the Luna Moth, also known as the
Moon Moth. The larva is translucent pale green with a pale yellow
line running along the lower side. It is nearly four inches long. The
larva feeds on many trees including alder, cherry, walnut, hickory,
oak, sweet gum, birch, butternut, beech, willow, chestnut, pecan,
hazelnut, and persimmon. The cocoon is usually spun on the ground
among leaf litter so it is difficult to find in the winter.
<P>This moth is one of our most spectacular. The wings are a very pale
green with maroon, pink or yellow margins. Each wing has a
transparent eyespot surrounded by a ring of maroon or black. The
hindwings are drawn out into long, graceful sweeping tails. The
wingspan is four to six inches.
<h4>Prometha Moth Larvae</H4>
<P>This caterpillar is the larva of the Prometha Moth, also known as the
Silk Moth. Larvae are smooth and pale green with a slight bluish
cast. There are four prominent red-orange spikes near the head and
one yellow spike near the rear. Four smaller black or blue spots are
also present on each body segment. The head has two facial spots.
Larvae feed on many plants including spicebush, cherry, sassafras,
tuliptree, willow, poplar, sweetgum, ash, apple, pear, lilac, wild
plum, birch, button bush, basswood, maple and chokeberry. The larval
period is 42 to 54 days. A compact cocoon in which the larva pupates
and overwinters is attached to the host plant by a silken stalk.
<P>In June or July, the adult moth emerges with a wingspan of three to
four inches. The females are larger and more brightly colored than
the male moths. The female is bright red to dark brown with a tan
border on both wings. The male is dark brown to black with a tan
border on both wings. Both have a spot in each forewing near the
margin. This moth was once considered for development of the American
silk industry.
<h4>Tobacco Hornworm and Tomato Hornworm Larvae</H4>
<P>The tobacco hornworm, also known as the Carolina Sphinx Moth larva,
has seven diagonal white stripes on each side of the body and a
curved red horn at the rear. The tomato hornworm, also known as the
Five Spotted Hawk Moth larva, has eight curved white stripes on each
side of the body and a straight black horn at the rear. Both
caterpillars are green, occasionally with a brown or black tinge, and
will reach a length of four inches. Food plants of both larvae
include tobacco, tomato, eggplant, pepper, potato and related weeds.
The larval period ranges from 28 to 36 days, after which the larva
burrows down into the soil three to four inches deep to pupate and
overwinter.
<P><IMG SRC="images/2015_3.jpg"</p>
<P>In May or June, the adult moth merges. These sphinx moths are
powerful fliers, and are sometimes called hawk moths or hummingbird
moths because they hover while feeding on flowers. Moths are dark
gray, sometimes mottled with black and light gray. Two zigzag, black
lines extend across the hindwings with a black band near the border.
There are five pairs of yellow spots on each side of the abdomen. The
wingspan is four to five inches. A braconid wasp parasite is an
important natural enemy. Its white cocoons are commonly seen attached
to the larvae.
<h4>Catalpaworm Larvae</H4>
<P>The catalpaworm, also known as the Catalpa Sphinx Moth larva, occurs
in two color forms. It may be a velvety black to dark green with
black stripes, or it may be yellow or tan with irregular black
stripes on the sides. There is a black horn at the rear. The larvae
feed primarily on catalpa and are capable of completely defoliating a
tree. There are usually two generations a year. Fully grown larvae
reach a length of three inches before burrowing into the ground to
pupate. Larvae are often attacked by a parasitic wasp, and few of
them survive to become pupae and moths.
<P>Adult moths emerge shortly after the catalpa trees have come into
full leaf. Adult are light brown to tan with a wingspan of about
3-1/2 inches. They fly primarily at night and are seldom seen.
<h4>Black Swallowtail Butterfly Larvae</H4>
<P>Larvae are sometimes called parsleyworm, celeryworm, carrotworm or
American Swallowtail Butterfly larva. Caterpillars are pale to
yellowish green with irregular black cross bands that partially
surround yellowish to orange spots. They feed on parsley, parsnip,
celery, carrot, dill, caraway, Queen Anne's lace and many other
related plants. They are sometimes a pest of gardens and field crops.
There are two or more broods a year. Larvae pupate on the host plant
and overwinter in this stage.
<P><IMG SRC="images/2015_4.jpg"</p>
<P>Adult butterflies are black with the wings marked by two rows of
yellow spots along the outer margins. On the hindwings there are blue
spots between these two rows of yellow spots and a yellow spot tinged
with orange in the inner margin of the wings. The wing span is about
three inches.
<h4>Spicebush Swallowtail Butterfly Larvae</H4>
<P>Larva are smooth and green with a pair of eyespots on the sides near
the head. The spots are yellow to orange with blue centers and are
rimmed with black. There are a pair of fleshy, odoriferous structures
on the top backside of the head. Larvae usually live in a folded leaf
and feed on spicebush, sassafras, sweet bay, prickly ash and other
shrubs. Larvae pupate on the host plant and overwinter in the pupal
stage. There are two to three broods a year, depending on the
climate.
<P><IMG SRC="images/2015_5.jpg"</p>
<P>The adults emerge in late April to early May. They are often called
green clouded or green spotted swallowtails since the male's hindwing
has a pronounced greenish tone. Forewings are dark green or almost
black with yellow marginal spots while the hindwings are bluish green
with marginal spots tinted with green. There are orange spots on the
hindwing margins. They are active, steady fliers and seldom alight.
<P>NOTE: Additional caterpillars can be identified by checking in a
Golden Guide booklet entitled "Butterflies and Moths" published by
Golden Press of New York or in either of the Peterson Field Guides:
"A Field Guide to the Butterflies of Eastern North America" or "A
Field Guide to the Moths of Eastern North America," published by
Houghton Mifflin Company of Boston.
<H3>Life Cycle and Habits</H3>
<P>Moths and butterflies develop by complete metamorphosis characterized
by four distinct growth stages. The egg hatches into a larva
(caterpillar) which grows and molts (sheds its skin) several times
before transforming into a pupa from which a winged adult emerges
later.
<P>Eggs vary in size and shape. Many are spherical while others are
flattened, conical, spindle or barrel shaped. Some are smooth while
others are ornamented with ribs, pits, grooves or networks of fine
ridges.
<P>Larvae are of various shapes and sizes. A few appear treacherous with
long, curving, spiky horns projecting from the body. Many have dull
or bright colors with unusual looking patterns.
<P>When fully grown, most moth larvae burrow into the ground and pupate
there in earthen cells. Pupae are the resting forms in which the
larvae transform into adults. Others pupate among dead leaves on the
host plant or debris on the ground. Hairy species usually mix their
hairs with silk, making a flimsy cocoon. Silk moth larvae spin tough
paper-like silken cocoons that protect the enclosed pupae.
<P>Adult moths and butterflies have two pairs of wings with scales and
siphoning mouthparts. Moths hide during the day and are active at
night. Butterflies are active during the day and are usually more
brightly colored than moths. Females lay eggs singly, in small
clusters, or in an egg mass. Most eggs are deposited on a plant that
will serve as food for the larvae.
<P>
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Shellie Welch
Sorry about taking up all of the newsgroup memory space. Didn't realize
that hitting the 'attachment' button would actually paste the entire
article to which I was referring INTO my message..... Brain fart. Need
more coffee.
Shellie
Zone 5
Indy
keith
>Hello, I was looking for some information on what the giant Tomato
>Hornworm might turn into. I guess I always assumed that maybe it was
>just a caterpillar type animal, and not the larvae of some butterfly or
>moth, but recently I've been told it is the larvae of the Luna Moth.
no thats - Tropaea luna
>
>Anybody know the real answer? Also, what is the larvae of the
>Hummingbird Moth?
The Hummingbird moth IS the adult of the tobacco/tomato hornworm
(also called the sphinx moth) the Latin name is
Protoparce quinquemaculata
Tomato Hornworms and tobacco hornworms are very similar in life cycle
and habit. They can be differentaited by their "horns" Tomato
hornworms have a black horn and Tobacco hornworms have a red horn.
+Tom worms also have 8 diagonal lines on each side joined by a
horoziontal white stripe
+Tobacco worms have seven diagonal lines on each side of them.
You should be able to find out more about them from
http://biowww.clemson.edu/ento/cuentomologyresources/cesheets/veg/ce22.html
(nice picture)
>
>I sure get plenty of Hornworms, but I've never seen a Luna Moth.
This should help explain why
Keith
Paul F Austin
>Hornworm might turn into. I guess I always assumed that maybe it was
>just a caterpillar type animal, and not the larvae of some butterfly or
>moth, but recently I've been told it is the larvae of the Luna Moth.
>Patrick
Hi,
Luna Moth caterpillars feed on oaks if I remember correctly,
they definately aren't tomato hornworms (talk about ugly
ducklings into swans). Tomato hornworms are a variety of
Sphinx moth. Peterson's Field Guide series has a caterpillar
guide, the only one I know of. There aren't very many good
moth guides out either, the butterfly guides don't have
moths also.
/\
/ \
/ \__\i/__Martha Steuart
--
Eat a live toad in the morning
and nothing worse will happen to you all day.
-------------------------------------
Paul F Austin
pau...@digital.net
Ellen Russo
On 10 Jun 1997 00:12:28 GMT, pau...@digital.net (Paul F Austin)
wrote:
>In article <339370...@erols.com>, up...@erols.com says...
>>
>>Hello, I was looking for some information on what the giant Tomato
>>Hornworm might turn into.
We call them "Hummingbird Moths" because they look like hummingbirds.
They are quite interesting, like to feed at night and suck nectar from
plants such as nicotinas. If you look closely you will realize they
are not hummingbirds, but moths. I like to watch them when they are
moths; I kill them with Bt or hand pick them when they eat our tomato
plants!
Ellen in New Mexico
>
maggie...@gmail.com
> Hello, I was looking for some information on what the giant Tomato
> just a caterpillar type animal, and not the larvae of some butterfly or
> moth, but recently I've been told it is the larvae of the Luna Moth.
>
> Hummingbird Moth?
> I sure get plenty of Hornworms, but I've never seen a Luna Moth.
>
>
> Patrick
Dan Espen
--
Dan Espen
Terry Coombs
interface and can't be bothered to actually look at the headers to see when
the message was posted .
--
Snag
Amos Nomore
the query.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manduca_quinquemaculata
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummingbird_hawk-moth
azigni
> Not to mention a Google search would have taken less time than posting
> the query.
songbird
>Amos Nomore wrote:
>
>> Not to mention a Google search would have taken less time than posting
>> the query.
>
> Ahh, but not nearly as satisfying as written conversation.
and answering questions. alas, some are getting thinner and
thinner these days. :(
songbird
Frank
horn worms but while larvae are similar it appears source is different.