Replacement for Mr. Lincoln
G. Tong
I am in the "banana belt" in San Francisco, warm enough to grow
subtropicals and I get almost no fog (just my neighbor's irritating habit
of watering his yard at night!), but Mr. Lincoln seems exceptionally prone
to rust.
What I would like is a more more rust-resistant rose that puts out deep
red AND fragrant flowers. A hybrid tea is preferred. Olympiad grows very
well here but has little to no fragrance.
Thanks.
--
G. Tong
gt...@sirius.com
"Every infinity is composed of only two halves."
MellowDrama
: Please suggest a replacement for my Mr. Lincoln rose.
: Thanks.
: --
: G. Tong
: gt...@sirius.com
-- Oklahoma, Oklahoma, Oklahoma.
or Hortulanus Budde.
MD
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ssss oo oo Darkness Fell And Covered The Brilliance....
ssss ooo
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Cathy E Beyer
: Please suggest a replacement for my Mr. Lincoln rose.
My friend Dave grows Senator Burda, which is a better garden rose than
Mr. Lincoln, and I think the fragrance is even better. Honest!
Unfortunately, I don't know how it grows in your climate, and the only
place I know to get it is through Hortico out of Canada. I ordered one a
week ago and they still had it in stock, but it's a drastic step if
you're not ordering many roses. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone
who is growing Senator Burda to learn how well it performs in their garden.
I grow Liebeszauber and Alec's Red. They both perform well in my garden,
but they aren't quite like Mr. Lincoln. A couple of the Kordes roses
offered in the Edmunds catalog might be a closer match. Perhaps Royal
William?
Cathy in MA z/5
Charles A. Bigelow
>subtropicals and I get almost no fog (just my neighbor's irritating habit
>of watering his yard at night!), but Mr. Lincoln seems exceptionally prone
>to rust.
>
>What I would like is a more more rust-resistant rose that puts out deep
>red AND fragrant flowers. A hybrid tea is preferred.
I grow several dark red hybrid teas alongside Mr. Lincoln, which also rusts in
my garden, so I can compare disease susceptibility, fragrance, and color pretty
easily. Taboo is a very dark red that seems very rust and mildew resistant, and
has moderate fragrance. Deep Secret (Mildred Scheel) is darker than Mr.
Lincoln, with a very strong fragrance, though different in quality than that of
Mr. Lincoln, and it seems fairly rust and mildew resistant. I like it a lot.
Erotika also has a very strong fragrance, and doesn't seem to rust as badly.
Papa Meilland and Oklahoma rust about as much as Mr. Lincoln, as does Chrysler
Imperial, Mirandy, and Charles Mallerin, and Crimson Glory gets more mildew and
almost as much rust. (All of these are relatives of Mr. L.) Alec's Red doesn't
seem to rust as much, and is very fragrant, but is a lighter, more cherry red.
Proud Land is a good red color with a fragrance a little like Coca-cola, but
I'm not sure about its rust susceptibility - maybe about like that of Chrysler
Imperial. Senator Burda (Victor Hugo) is a good red, fairly disease resistant,
and very vigorous, with moderately strong fragrance. Etoile de Holland is a
good, fragrant red, but probably about as rusty as Mr. Lincoln, and available
mostly as a climber. Ernest H. Morse seems fairly rust resistant, and is a
good red, but isn't as strongly fragrant, though it does have some fragrance.
Same for Fragrant Charm '84, also called Royal William.
It looks to me like the genes determining susceptibility to rust came in with
those for the dark red color and strong fragrance, and sit fairly close on the
same chromosome. Most of the rust resistant reds are not as fragrant, and most
of the fragrant reds are rusty. A problem in linkage.
Some of the Austin reds are more rust resistant, with their more complex
background, though they get some rust, especially those that have Chateau de
Clos Vougeot in their background (which gives them their strong color and
fragrance). Othello is a vigorous, fragrant, dark red Austin that seems less
disease prone than Mr. Lincoln and kin, but less floriferous and less
remontant. Wenlock is also good. The Squire isn't as fragrant, and rusts. I'm
less certain about Austin's other dark reds, like Prospero, The Dark Lady, and
William Shakespeare. Will let you know in mid-summer.
-- Chuck Bigelow (just an hour south of you)
Daniel Froehlich
On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, G. Tong wrote:
> Please suggest a replacement for my Mr. Lincoln rose.
>
> I am in the "banana belt" in San Francisco, warm enough to grow
> subtropicals and I get almost no fog (just my neighbor's irritating habit
> of watering his yard at night!), but Mr. Lincoln seems exceptionally prone
> to rust.
>
> What I would like is a more more rust-resistant rose that puts out deep
> red AND fragrant flowers. A hybrid tea is preferred. Olympiad grows very
> well here but has little to no fragrance.
As someone fairly new in the garden, how about "Proud Land"? Peter Malin
recommends it strongly in his "Peter Malin's Rose Book", p 23.
"In close competition with 'Mr. Lincoln' for top honors...pure blood
red, passing to crimson...color deep but has a brilliant intensity with
great carrying power...charged with vigor, flowers can be cut with 3 foot
stems...intense fragrance, more free in bloom than 'Mr. Lincoln'."
My 12 year old son has had 2 'Proud Land' for going on 3 years now, we
have been pleased with it. I have been very satisfied with the fragrance.
We have had some rust (really very little) , but manageable.
Good luck.
Daniel Froehlich, Corvallis, OR zone 8
cir...@halcyon.com
>
> Othello is a vigorous, fragrant, dark red Austin that seems less
> disease prone than Mr. Lincoln and kin, but less floriferous and less
> remontant. Wenlock is also good. The Squire isn't as fragrant, and rusts. I'm
> less certain about Austin's other dark reds, like Prospero, The Dark Lady, and
> William Shakespeare. Will let you know in mid-summer.
Othello rusted itself to an early death in my Seattle garden, where no other rose has
contracted rust. The difference in climate between Puget Sound and the Bay Area
is fairly significant, however, and could concievably account for our contrasting
experiences.
"The Dark Lady", on the other hand, has proven much more disease resistant than most
red Hybrid Teas. It is vigorous, floriferous, well-scented, and forms a graceful, spreading
shrub about 3' tall and 4' wide here. I should post a general warning though, that its
color is one that only some would describe as "red". My wife lumps its color with "Mme
Isaac Perreire". That may be going a bit too far, but there is a lot of purple and pink in
"The Dark Lady"'s red.. The flowers come up a purer crimson in the autumn, at least in
my experience.
S. Andrew Schulman
Chasing slugs in
Seattle (USDA Zone 8, Sunset Zone 5)
_____________________________________________________________________
S. Andrew Schulman Voice: (206)545-1117
Springwood Associates, Inc. FAX: (206)545-1107
Seattle, WA
cir...@halcyon.com All the usual disclaimers.
______________________________________________________________________
Boyd Zenner
add that--here in my Central Virginia garden, at
least--"Carmen" has been a handsome, vigorous, heavily fragrant
dark red.
PS to MellowDrama: I've had terrible luck with "Hortulanus
Budde" here--tried it a couple of times and both plants were so
blackspot-prone that I gave up. I'd like to see what it looked
like when well grown.
Boyd Zenner
Charlottesville, VA (zone 7)
MellowDrama
: PS to MellowDrama: I've had terrible luck with "Hortulanus
: Budde" here--tried it a couple of times and both plants were so
: blackspot-prone that I gave up. I'd like to see what it looked
: like when well grown.
: Boyd Zenner
: Charlottesville, VA (zone 7)
-- My first experience with H. Budde (strange name to me) was seeing
it bloom at Huntington. The plant was healthy and medium-sized (about
4'). I do not recall any disease on it. I tried taking cuttings from
him, but they did not root. The flowers are beautiful. They are huge
(6") cherry-apple red ruffled chalices. This rose is not very double,
bordering semi-double, actually. However, it caught my attention
instantly. I do not remember if it had a fragrance or not, I believe it
did, otherwise, I would not have been as impressed. I have not been able to
find any information on H. Budde. The plant was in the old HT bed and
Vintage carries it....
MellowDrama