Bomb proof roses: windy Bay Area
Cass Bernstein
I went to the local rose nursery, and Iąm hooked. I was smart enough to
leave and buy a book, but I still ended up with a wish list that has a
dozen entries. I would appreciate suggestions for two or three starter
roses that might make a living in Sunset zones 15-16 (Mill Valley, Calif.,
faces west with lots of wind driven by fog).
I need ease of cultivation (no weak sisters, no heavy chemicals), long
flowering, scent, interest in foliage. I have lots of room (new garden)
but rough exposure to wind. I have a wood and wire fenceline within easy
view. Iąm not partial to bright pinks or red (fading).
Here are my uneducated picks.
1. Rugosa (Iąd like suggestions): like the foliage, hips
2. Ballerina (shrub): like the profusion of blooms
3. Erfurt (hybrid musk): love the look and scent
4. Iceberg (floribunda and climber): like the advertised prolific bloom
5. Nevada, Sally Holmes (shrub): love single flower, lots of blooms
6. Handel (climber): love color
7. Josephąs coat (LCL, whatever that means): nice early bloom, interesting
colors
8. Mermaid (hybrid bracteate, whatever that means): purported good mild
winter vigorous grower, long flowering
9. Abraham Darby (shrub): scent, peachy color
10. Rosa banksiae: I know it grows because my neighbor has a yellow rose
that flowers briefly in early spring. Iąve read there is a white variety
with scent that is long flowering. Could it grow to cover a trellis from a
25 gallon planter?
TIA for your comments.
‹Cass, wanabe Rosarian
bu...@ihug.deletethis.co.nz
Great choices Cass, you've read the right book from the sounds of it.
Can I suggest, that you use your rugosas against the fence, as
a hedge and windbreak - you'd need quite a few, and plant quite close
together, but theyre tuff as boots, and will shelter the others. Blanc
double de Coubert is a lovely singe white one and has great autumn
foliage and hips too. I have 2 yellow ones- Agnes, and a new one
called topaz jewel and I'd recommend both.
Hope it all works out for you _ Carol.
LemonElf
Most of those roses on yr list are pretty much bomb-proof, tho I always here
that Joseph's Coat can be troublesome. I use to live right by the ocean in
southern California and we had plenty of wind, saltspray, and fog till late
July. Hybrid musks did very well there altho I had to grow mine as climbers
due to living on a tiny beach lot: Buff Beauty, Kathleen, and Lavendar Lassie
(highly recommend especially if you want a striking color, good scent, and it
probably would look nice with Erfurt). Two other almost indestructible roses
are the climbers Sombreuil (ivory-white old-fashioned rosettes, great "tea
rose" scent) and Eden -- wait! I did accidentally destroy a Sombreuil by
transplanting it and not getting enough of the rootball, but Eden is
absolutely indestructible and windproof. However, you must tie the massive
thorny canes in with foolproof twine/wire/whatever because you DO NOT want to
get struck a thorny limb whipping about in the wind. Cecile Brunner also is
nearly indestructible and doesn't mildew in ocean air. Iceberg might mildew,
but it's always worth a try because the flower production is so amazing and the
bushes are beautiful in the landscape. If you can grow Nevada and have the
space for it, go for it! I tried it down here, and even in my current garden
which is a couple miles inland but basically still coastal, Nevada burned up in
the southern CA summer. A pity, it was a beautiful rose. If Nevada doesn't
work for you, Iceberg is a good alternative as you can let it grow into a
large, graceful shrub. Ballerina is great, I have two that get hit with ocean
breezes and bloom well even in a partial-shade position. It makes clusters of
tiny orange rose hips in the fall which can be cut and used in flower
arrangements. I don't know Handel, but again, I've heard it can be touchy. I'm
sure someone else will respond on Handel and Joseph's Coat. Joseph's Coat grows
all over front fences in southern CA, but I don't know how it does up north.
Abe Darby is another indestructible rose, you just have to figure out how
you're going to grow it: shrub, climber or pillar cause it's very vigorous and
the gigantic full flowers tend to hang downward. It's a very beautiful and
fragrant rose, however, and well worth growing even if you need to transplant
it a couple times till you find the best spot. It also will respond well to
severe pruning if you wish to keep it more compact. You might also consider
another beautiful English rose, Gertrude Jekyll, which I grew with no problems
when I lived right by the ocean. This is another BIG rose, but if you are
considering Nevada, I assume space is not a problem.
However, after rereading yr post, I realize you do not like pink, so Gertrude
Jekyll may not be for you. However, it is very "old rose"-looking and the
scent is to die for. Regarding the Lady Banks roses, you should be ok in a
very large container as long as you water sufficiently and fertilise it. Cover
a trellis! Ha! If it is happy, it will cover your house. Happy Lady Banks
roses in southern CA are know to flower for about 2 months and sometimes even
repeat flower. A friend of mine has a white one that covers her house to the
roof of the second floor and it repeats thruout the extended summer here.
Hope this info helps! Keep investigating roses, you're sure to find other
intriguing ones ;)! The Rose Bible by Rayford Reddell is a good one for
suggestions, has wonderful photos, and his Garden Valley Ranch is located just
above San Francisco so his info will be particularly appropriate to your
locale. -- candace
Mel Hulse
In message <cbernstein-ya024080...@news.earthlink.net> -
cbern...@earthlink.net (Cass Bernstein) writes:
>
> I went to the local rose nursery, and I雋 hooked. I was smart enough to
> leave and buy a book, but I still ended up with a wish list that has a
> dozen entries. I would appreciate suggestions for two or three starter
> roses that might make a living in Sunset zones 15-16 (Mill Valley, Calif.,
> faces west with lots of wind driven by fog).
> I need ease of cultivation (no weak sisters, no heavy chemicals), long
> flowering, scent, interest in foliage. I have lots of room (new garden)
> but rough exposure to wind. I have a wood and wire fenceline within easy
>
> Here are my uneducated picks.
There are oonce bloomers and repeaters. You might as well get a repeat
bloomer.
> 2. Ballerina (shrub): like the profusion of blooms
Check out her daughter, Marjorie Fair. Better color, same big spreading
shrub. If you want something more erect, checkout Belinda. Same profusian of
blooms with better color retention.
> 3. Erfurt (hybrid musk): love the look and scent
> 4. Iceberg (floribunda and climber): like the advertised prolific bloom
Yep.
Margaret Merril is a good competitor.
> 5. Nevada, Sally Holmes (shrub): love single flower, lots of blooms
Yep, and big.
> 6. Handel (climber): love color
> 7. Joseph零 coat (LCL, whatever that means): nice early bloom, interesting
> colors
LCl = Large flower Climber.
> 8. Mermaid (hybrid bracteate, whatever that means): purported good mild
> winter vigorous grower, long flowering
Can climb a tree to 40'!
> 9. Abraham Darby (shrub): scent, peachy color
Concur.
> 10. Rosa banksiae: I know it grows because my neighbor has a yellow rose
> that flowers briefly in early spring.
R. banksia lutea
> I靶e read there is a white variety with scent that is long flowering.
Yep. R. banksia banksia is the double one. There's a single one.
> Could it grow to cover a trellis from a 25 gallon planter?
I s'pose it wpuld do ok in a 25g pot. Its size on the order of the yellow
variety. As input to your trellis idea, remember that the biggest rose in the
US is a banksia... Even bigger than a Mermaid. Come to the SJHRG to see how
it does.
--
Mel Hulse, Col. USAF (Ret'd)
Silicon Valley Rose Farmer
http://www.randomaccesssolutions.com/sjhrg/SJHRG.htm
SUPPORT YOUR PUBLIC ROSE GARDEN!
lms
In article <melhulseE...@netcom.com>, melh...@netcom.com says...
>> 8. Mermaid (hybrid bracteate, whatever that means): purported good mild
>> winter vigorous grower, long flowering
>
>Can climb a tree to 40'!
Mermaid. I suppose this 40' stuff is why Ralph Moore 'uses' bracteata
a lot in his bhyridizing. I don't remember the rose but he pointed to
one rose, said the goal is to get a flower like this onto a bush like that,
as he pointed to such a hybrid.
That list didn't look like my first list. heheh.
It looked like my second list. Except better.
m
you listed Nevada in the same line as Sally Holmes, kinda unfair. There's
a tradeoff there, you know. Individually, and en masse--one mature and
not being weird specimen to another--Nevada has Sally beat hands down.
Huge flaures, Nevada, often tinged pink, not always, and most impressive,
those big flaures occurring one by one the length of the loooong canes.
Sally, otoh, can also grow big--mine's getting there, will get there, it's
4 or 5 years old now, almost up to kitchen window level--and claiming space
with quite a bit of shade, actually--that and Marijke are what I see when it's
blooming--it gets with the program. And Sally reblooms. I'd get both. And
I'd get both Margaret Merrill and Iceberg both too, just so you don't always
have to wonder how one could be bette than the other. I have Iceberg. Sam
McGredy described a wondrous garden that was nothing but Iceberg, scads of em.
Sam McGredy named that rose, btw.
You get all these, you won't have to get a white rose for awhile.
Dave Encisco
>dozen entries. I would appreciate suggestions for two or three starter
>roses that might make a living in Sunset zones 15-16 (Mill Valley, Calif.,
>faces west with lots of wind driven by fog).
I live in similar conditions on the S.F. Peninsula: afternoon winds
and cooler nights (Austin country right?!..wrong). My worst adversary
is mildew (and rust on the Portlands). Less than five miles west of me
I've seen people growing the same roses without suffering similar
problems. Experimenting has become an expensive habit.
>1. Rugosa (I9d like suggestions): like the foliage, hips
Rugosas have done well for me. I have had success with Roserie De
L'Hay, Belle Poit..something or other (sorry the name escapes me at
the moment), and Nyveldt's White. The jury is still out on Agnes (too
young) and Therese Bugnet (spindly, scant blooms, rust, but worth it
for the red canes). The Rugosas lose their leaves, turning brown
rather early, and you're left with a natural spiked fence that even
the bravest of ball chasing dogs become prudent.
>2. Ballerina (shrub): like the profusion of blooms
Mildew. The Red Ballerina, Marjorie Fair, has done much better.
>3. Erfurt (hybrid musk): love the look and scent
Don't know about Erfurt, but Vanity, Lavender Lassie and, with some
TLC, Buff Beauty have all done well.
>4. Iceberg (floribunda and climber): like the advertised prolific bloom
Very common in my neighborhood; seems to be a no brainer...because
most of my neighbors are garden challenged.
>5. Nevada, Sally Holmes (shrub): love single flower, lots of blooms
Sally Holmes can become an unexpectedly BIG shrub. It's wonderful in
my neighbor's yard where I can admire its log size canes from afar.
>8. Mermaid (hybrid bracteate, whatever that means): purported good mild
>winter vigorous grower, long flowering
Vigorous is a mild way of putting it. It suffers from mildew. I have a
love-hate relationship with it. I love looking at it and hate dealing
with it. Mine may be heading to the city's compost pile once my
neighbor begins to complain about the rose grabbing him and stealing
his clothes. Another dog wary rose.
>10. Rosa banksiae: I know it grows because my neighbor has a yellow rose
>that flowers briefly in early spring.
Mildew. I now just neglect mine, never water it, and it still is
eating up my garage!
I have had wonderful success with Polyanthas, Narrow Water (one of
five Noisettes I'm growing), Captain Thomas (large flower climber),
Gloire de Rosomones and Gruss an Auchen (these last two are really
effortless to grow). The last of the Bourbons (besides Gloire de
Rosomones which seems to fall under a number of classifications) that
has survived my garden induced schizophrenic rampage is Coquette des
Blanches. I'll never be without Coquette des Blanches again! I have a
some Austins and old Teas, but I haven't been that impressed. I know a
lot of people in the Bay Area avoid once bloomers or experiment with
them where no one will see them, but I'd have to say that my Albas and
Gallicas have been some of the most bomb proof roses in my
yard. Unfortunately after their rather short blooming season you begin
to wonder how much lands some of these bushes will lay claim to.
And I though growing rose would lower my blood pressure ;-).
Happy gardening,
Dave
--
===========================================
Dave Encisco
denc...@akrasia.arc.nasa.gov
===========================================
Donna
>cbern...@earthlink.net (Cass Bernstein) writes:
>
>> I would appreciate suggestions for two or three starter
>>roses that might make a living in Sunset zones 15-16 (Mill Valley, Calif.,
>>faces west with lots of wind driven by fog).
>
I live nearby, in San Rafael, but I am somewhat sheltered from the wind. The
most bomb-proof roses that immediately come to mind which would probably
withstand windy conditions and are disease-resistant are New Zealand, Mutabilis,
Reba McEntire, Ingrid Bergman and Margaret Merrill.
Are you a member of the Marin Rose Society?
Cass Bernstein
Marin Rose Society (would seem a bit presumptious, considering what I
know). At the County Fair I did snap up the list of members who are
willing to answer questions. Iąm going to start out with the four roses I
couldnąt resist:
Blanc Double de Coubert (rugosa with heavenly scent). Something about
those leaves is primal.
Iceberg
Abraham Darby
Josephąs Coat (in honor of my son)
Baby Grand (a miniature I couldnąt resist and will look stunning in a
planter, if not in the ground)
Weąll know whatąs tough after it survives my dogs, the wind, the fog, the
rocky/clay soils, the Marin Municipal Water Districtąs water rates, and my
reluctance to use chemicals. Roses like kelp, I hear.
‹Cass
FARHRZNS
cbern...@earthlink.net (Cass Bernstein) writes:
> I donšt belong to the
>Marin Rose Society (would seem a bit presumptious, considering what I
>know). At the County Fair I did snap up the list of members who are
Cass...one of the purposes of a local rose society is education. You don't
have to know anything to join. The aim of the society is to teach you how to
grow, what to grow, etc. Can't think of a better place for beginners than a
local society. You ought to give it a try.
Paula Ballin
Donna
cbern...@earthlink.net says...
>
>I want to thank everyone for answering my post. I donšt belong to the
>Marin Rose Society (would seem a bit presumptious, considering what I
>know).
You don't have to know squat to be a member of the rose society. It is a place
to learn. In any case, you can attend meetings and learn without being a member,
so perhaps you should come to one? We meet (I use "we" loosely -- haven't been
but once this year, shame on me!) the 2nd Tuesday of every month at the Marin
Art & Garden Center in Ross. If you want more info, feel free to email me using
the address below (but without the xx's).