the effect of soil on tomato taste
glenn
your tomatoes (or any other edibles). but how? i'm trying to find out.
this is prompted by growing up with delicious tomatoes grown in new
jersey (it's called 'the garden state' for a reason), and not being able
to reproduce that taste in maryland. i've tried the same hybrids my parents
used, as well as a host of hierlooms and new hybrids. i grow them from seed
and manage them organically. i've tried different soil additives and a
variety of mulches. we've had cool, wet summers and hot, dry ones.
basically, i think i've accounted for the variables related to climate,
fertilizer, and tomato variety. now i'm ready to get systematic with soil.
does anyone know where to start researching this?
- what's the effect of ph on taste?
- what trace elements are important for taste?
- is there an ideal composition for sweetness, or balancing acidity?
by the way, i've experienced the same thing with other vegetables, notably
peas, which are never as good as they were in nj.
any help would be appreciated........glenn
Lani Loring
difference as well. I am thinking that the reason we do not have very
flavorful tomatoes is a result of overwatering. Any ideas here? thanks.
glenn
> And I am curious as to whether the amount/frequency of watering makes a
> difference as well. I am thinking that the reason we do not have very
> flavorful tomatoes is a result of overwatering. Any ideas here? thanks.
based on my limited research so far (reading previous postings to this group),
the rule of thumb is that you get more flavor with less watering. i generally
leave the plants alone (except for fertilizing) after the fruit sets. it would
take pretty severe drought conditions to cripple the plant once it's established
(at least here in maryland).
Greatest Prime
glenn_...@fanniemae.com wrote on 5/29/01 1:55 PM:
If that is the case, why do hydroponic tomatos taste so good? (Please do not
lecture on good vs well).
Bill
Lani Loring
refers to the point at which the flower drops off & leaves the little
tomato? Thanks, I'll try it.
Sam
neglected little plants produce marvelous fruits--a few Marglobe
plants in 92 come to mind.
As long as the plant has access to adequate nutrition, it is my
official and un-scientific observation that weather effects the
quality of the ripe fruit more than anything else, aside from the
obvious effect of variety.
I usually amend the soil with a variety of fertilizers. Something
like:
Espoma Garden or vegetable tone
bone meal
cotton seed meal
super phospate
dolomitic limestone
epsom salts
Lee Hall amends his soil with a variety of great stuff, including
green sand, which I've never tried. I never have enough compost too
seriously amend the soil in which my many tomato plants are planted.
I've used kelp and fish emulsion, but I must tell you that I produce
great tasting fruits when using Miracle-Gro for tomatoes. I do not
foliar feed since it wets the leaves and blight has been a terrible
problem the last few years.
I've noted that taste varies with harvest time, from fruit to fruit,
and even within a single fruit. Fruits in southern PA taste the best
near the middle to late middle of the harvest period. The blossom end
of the fruit is usually sweeter than the vine end.
My essential tomatoes are German, Brandywine, Fantastic, Sweet
Chelsea, and Pineapple.
I must ask the obigatory question: Are you sure nostalgia is not
coloring your perception of those NJ tomatoes? What about seeds?
I've grown Brandywine from 4 different suppliers with 4 different
results.
Sam
glenn
> If that is the case, why do hydroponic tomatos taste so good? (Please do not
> lecture on good vs well).
>
> Bill
hm. i guess taste is a matter of, um, taste. i prefer
the kind that grow in dirt.
Edwin Kalat
watering and the variety of the tomato, I grow only heirloom varities
they have it all over the hybrids. Just like a rose loses its smell when
it is hybridized a tomato loses its taste. Some of the best looking
store bought tomatoes are tasteless not because they were not grown in
the most ideal conditins but they were altered for ideal appearance and
shipping considerartions and therefore suffer on taste. There are
countless varieties find the one that taste the best for you and don't
worry too much about the soil. Edwin Kalat
glenn
here, it seems to be that soil composition is not the primary factor in
determining taste, and i should concentrate making the proper nutrients
available. i'll work on controlling the weather while i'm at it!
a lot of people here mention the epsoma products, so i'll have to try those.
regarding seed suppliers, i use shepherd's and cook's garden, but i haven't
really tried a single variety from different suppliers. i generally get better
germination from shepherd's (i assumed that meant they were more careful in
selecting seeds), but it never occurred to me that taste could vary as well.
regarding varieties, i am sadly stuck with hybrids, as the soil-born wilts
in the garden attack the hierlooms mercilessly. i'm starting to experiment
with containers to get around that. i'm also trying tomatillos this year --
we'll see how that goes.
regarding nostalgia, i wish it was just that. but i still get nj tomatoes
each year from my parents' garden -- from the plants they bought at the local
farmstand, that they stuck in the ground without any fertilizer, that they
water intermittently when they're not travelling -- and the damn things still
taste better than mine! maybe i'm trying too hard.....
The Cook
>
>regarding nostalgia, i wish it was just that. but i still get nj tomatoes
>each year from my parents' garden -- from the plants they bought at the local
>farmstand, that they stuck in the ground without any fertilizer, that they
>water intermittently when they're not travelling -- and the damn things still
>taste better than mine! maybe i'm trying too hard.....
***************************
Sometime some benign neglect works too. I water when the ground
starts to get too dry and keep a sharp eye out for pests. After they
start setting fruit, I will probably fertilize them once. And if the
weather co-operates, I get a good yield. If not, I don't.
Maybe you should buy your plants at the same place your parents do.
Or as the owner what brand of seeds he uses.
Susan N.
seniornet.gardencity
seeding. I've heard that this nourishes the plant and gives it a better
taste and higher nutritional value.
glenn <glenn_...@fanniemae.com> wrote in message
news:2d65f213.01052...@posting.google.com...
---Pete---
wrote:
>obviously, the composition of your garden soil affects the taste of
>your tomatoes (or any other edibles). but how? i'm trying to find out.
>this is prompted by growing up with delicious tomatoes grown in new
>jersey (it's called 'the garden state' for a reason), and not being able
>to reproduce that taste in maryland.
-------
Glenn, I'm in NJ and a several years ago I experienced bland tasting
tomatoes.The first thing I did was to ammend the soil at the end of
the growing season using dried leaves that I turned into the soil when
we had some warm weather in Dec/Jan. In Feb/Mar I added peatmoss
and turned the soil again. I also balanced the PH using lime. That
season it was somewhat better but it was still not right.
The next year,I got smart and performed a soil test using these simple
$4 test kits available at the local garden center and discovered that
my soil was depleted of nitrogen and potash and my PH was low.
As a quick fix, I amended the soil with, lime, chemical fertilizers
and a very limited amount of compost that I had begun to generate.
I retested the soil a month or so later and it was still slightly low
in potash but acceptable. After all that, my tomatoes tasted great
and the plants were a nice deep green and healthty looking instead
of a pale green. All my plants grew to twice the size of previous
years with more yeild too.
PS: In more recent years, I am composting more in an
attempt to eliminate the use of the chemical fertilizers.
As for watering vs taste, I've read that it is best to cut back or
stop watering just prior to harvesting to enhance the flavor
of tomatoes. What does "just prior" mean? I'd say about
a week prior.
What can you do at this late stage in the season?
1.) Test your soil now to see where you are at with
your N/P/K nutrients and soil PH.
2.) Ammend the soil using natural fertilizers if you
can research that topic well enough to know what types
to use to correct for speific deficiencies of N/P/K.
3.) If step#2 is too overwhelming at this late stage in the
season, then just for this year, use the recomended
amounts of chemical fertilizers to correct/ammend
your soil as directed on the soil test kit.
What can you do for next season?
1.) Start a compost pile now!
Check with your local municipality and see what
they do with their leaves collected. Some will offer
the partially composed leave for free. Some compost
it and sell it back to the residents.
2.) Perform a soil test in the FALL of this year.
3.) Ammend your soil with compost and fertilizers
as per the soil test.
4.) In the spring, do another soil test and repeat
step#3 above.
5.) Continue composting all season.
Har, Har, Har, I used to think you just planted the seeds
and things would just grow. Not true! It typically takes
3 to 5 years for the new gardener to get the soil in a
new garden plot optimized. Its a science, it's about
chemistry, it can be very complex and challenging.
But most of all, in the end, it is all worthwhile <smile>.
---pete---
Edwin Kalat
heirloom varieties. Each year I would save the seeds from the plant that
was least effected. After making these selection for about four years my
seed had significant resistance to my particular type of organism.
Buying a resiistant plant does not make it resistant to the wilt in your
soil and your growing conditions Next year try a pink oxheart and you
will never grow a hybrid again. Edwin Kalat.