types of straw
Bobbett
so, how deep a layer do you put on (I'm in zone 5-6; NYC), when do you
remove it (if at all; I've heard some people say they just push it aside
in the Spring and re-plant). IF you till in the Spring, would you
remove it or till it under?
Any one more thing....I went in to a feed store one day to buy a bale of
hay, and the guy there told me the kind of hay he sold wasn't for
gardens--it was more for animals and/or feed. He said a gardening store
would have the right type of hay. Does anyone know what type of hay I
should ask for when calling around to gardening stores?
tia, Bobbett
--
------------------
Trask: Does Superman have any telepathic powers?
Lois: (blushing) I hope not.
David Hare-Scott
"Bobbett" <erabo...@att.net> wrote in message
news:3DB365...@att.net...
Hay and straw are not the same. Hay is mown from a field and could be
grasses or other fodder crops, it is intended as stock feed. Straw is
the stalks etc that remain after a cereal crop has been harvested, so it
is a by product. Either will do as a mulch or to go into compost but
hay has more nutrients (and seeds!).
Any sort of hay will fill this role but you will pay more for top
quality fodder hay which isn't really necessary, as although horses care
if their hay is spoiled plants don't. If you go to stables you may get
used bedding straw or spoiled hay for free.
In any case if you don't compost it, once its down you leave it down,
you can turn in under or leave it on the surface in spring as long as it
hasn't become an impenetrable mat in which case tilling would probably
be better.
David
Dwayne
experience. When I didn't know the difference, I put the wrong one down.
The following spring all kinds of plants came up and doubled my weeding
chores. I would suggest you get the ones without the seeds in it.
I pick mine up when I am through with it and set it aside for next year, but
I don't have any good way to plow it under.
Good luck. Dwayne
"David Hare-Scott" <Tired...@eMPTY.COM> wrote in message
news:3db3b158$0$23171$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Bobbett
>
> Hello, David explained it very well, but let me tell you about my
> experience. When I didn't know the difference, I put the wrong one down.
> The following spring all kinds of plants came up and doubled my weeding
> chores. I would suggest you get the ones without the seeds in it.
That's what I was told, too, but do you know the *name* for the stuff
without the seeds?
Bobbett
David Hare-Scott
I don't know what's on sale where you are but here there is no such
thing as seedless hay or straw as a product. Hay will have more or less
seeds in it depending on what it was cut from and the time of year.
Straw will not have as many as the seeds from the grain are carefully
harvested and the farmers try to keep down the weeds in the cereal crop
but some such material may end up in there anyway. If seeds are going
to be a bother get straw but there will be no guarantee that it has
none.
David
Dwayne
weren't harvested, are laying on the ground. The straw is left standing,
unless the farmer wants to bale it.
Ask one of your farmers in the area where you can get some and which has the
least amount of seeds. Get several bales extra, and during next couple of
summers, water them very good. What seeds may be inside them will sprout
and then die. They can be used without having to worry about seeds.
Good luck. Dwayne
"David Hare-Scott" <Tired...@eMPTY.COM> wrote in message
news:3db4d20a$0$23173$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Aaron Baugher
> That's what I was told, too, but do you know the *name* for the
> stuff without the seeds?
Here it's called 'straw'. It may have a few seeds in it, but far
fewer than hay. Since this topic seems to come up quite a bit, here's
my wordy explanation for city slickers, hereafter to be referred to on
google.
Here's how you make hay:
-----------------------
You plant a field to some sort of high nutrient cover crop, usually
alfalfa or clover. Often you mix in some grass, because for many
animals (horses), a diet of hay with no grass would be too rich; the
grass provides some filler. Some weeds may grow, but the hay crop
should keep them under control.
When the hay is 'ready,' you cut it off right above the ground, let it
dry a day or two, turning it over once or more, and then bale it up.
Whatever's growing in the field ends up in the bale. To get the best
quality hay for feed, you try to cut the hay *before* it goes to seed
-- in fact, the best time is right before it blooms. You should end
up with a green bale which has a lot of leafy stuff in it and not a
lot of stems. There will be more stems in the hay that's cut earlier
in the year.
However, the weather doesn't always cooperate, and with other work on
the farm competing for time, hay often won't get cut until after this
ideal time. Also, the hay and grass may not mature at the same time,
so the grass may have already gone to seed when the hay is ready to
cut. Any weeds that are present may also have gone to seed.
So for all those reasons, hay will have seeds in it. A hopeful point,
though: hay fields are usually not sprayed with chemicals like grain
fields are, so weed seeds that you get in hay may not be as difficult
to kill as seeds from plants that have survived many sprayings. (This
year, for the first time, I saw large patches of cockleburrs that
survived Roundup.)
On to straw:
-----------
You plant a field to a grain crop, usually wheat around here. When
the wheat has dried and is ready to harvest, you combine it. The
combine threshes the wheat seed out of the stalk, and drops the stalk
on the ground, where it's picked up later and baled. The combine
isn't perfect, so some wheat seeds will make it into the straw.
Unlike hay, which is cut when still green and growing, straw is made
from fully dead stalks. So the wheat seeds in straw are mature and
ready to germinate. Also, any weeds that were in the wheat field may
have mature seed as well. These seeds are more likely to be from weed
strains that survived herbicides than the weed seeds found in hay.
Straw bales should be yellow when new, but will fade in sunlight to a
yellowish off-white color. Straw is *all* stems; if you pull out a
handful, it should look like something you'd make a broom out of.
Straw has very little food value, so it's mostly used as livestock
bedding. If you can get straw that has already been used to bed
livestock, you'll get the added benefit of manure for your garden.
Final analysis:
--------------
Hay and straw both have seeds, but hay almost always has more seeds
than straw. Hay is higher in nitrogen; straw has few nutrients but
adds aeration and helps soil stay loose. If you pile either one deep
enough, it'll prevent weeds from coming up -- at least until it rots
enough for sunlight to get through. If you want to kill the seeds
entirely, compost the hay or straw completely first, before adding it
to your garden. In the case of straw, that'll kill the seeds, but
it'll also reduce some of the straw's effectiveness at reducing soil
compaction.
My suggestion: If your focus is on nitrogen, get hay; if you're trying
to loosen up your soil, get straw. For mulching under plants which
lay their fruits on the ground, like strawberries and tomatoes, straw
works better because it doesn't hold water. If you don't have
specific needs, get either or both. Pile it nice and thick, but save
back a bale or two. When a weed comes up through a thin spot, pull
the weed and spread some more hay or straw in that spot. At the end
of the season, till it all under, unless you're planning to try
year-round mulch gardening -- something I'm considering.
--
Aaron
abau...@esc.pike.il.us
Sugarchile
Sue
Sugar...@earthlink.net
Zone 6, south-central PA
"Aaron Baugher" <abau...@esc.pike.il.us> wrote in message
news:86d6q2v...@haruchai.esc.pike.il.us...
Roy Smith
I believe you're talking about "Salt Hay".
Fat Freddy
of straw which keeps the soil from compacting. It decomposes over the
winter and gets tilled under in the spring. After we plant, we mulch
the whole garden with a new layer of straw which gets tilled under in
the fall and a new layer added for the winter.
Bobbett
> >without the seeds?
>
> I believe you're talking about "Salt Hay".
Yes! THat's the word I was looking for ;-)
Also LOVED Aaron's full description of hay/straw, etc. Printed it out
to save and refer to in the future.
Thank you VERY much :-)