Persimmon has black roots
Oliver Patterson
The trees came from a good nursery (Chestnut Hill) and appear to
otherwise be in good health. Do persimmons naturally have black roots
because of all the tannins they produce, or is this just wishful
thinking?
I have already lost one persimmon (probably because I shortened the
ridiculously long taproot at planting), and the other one I have has not
grown for two months. The persimmon is one of my favorite fruits, so I
want to have at least *one* tree in my yard, but I'm beginning to think
that it's very difficult to successfully transplant one. Has anyone had
success with this fruit tree?
Ben Sharvy
transplanting somewhat difficult. Persimmons like warm, well-drained soils
and full sun. I planted one near a black walnut and it did poorly, so I
currently consider them suceptible to black walnut poisoning. In general,
Oriental persimmons are only hardy to around 10 F. Otherwise, they are
relatively pest-free and easy to grow.
--
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Oliver Patterson
> Yes they naturally have black roots. Yes, a long taproot makes
> transplanting somewhat difficult. Persimmons like warm, well-drained soils
> and full sun. I planted one near a black walnut and it did poorly, so I
> currently consider them suceptible to black walnut poisoning. In general,
> Oriental persimmons are only hardy to around 10 F. Otherwise, they are
> relatively pest-free and easy to grow.
That is good to hear: there is hope for them. Persimmons are almost perfectly
adapted to FL's climate, which makes them rare among fruit trees. For this
reason I am very eager to maintain a couple of these trees in my yard. I
suspect they do well in OR, also. Oregonians have all kinds of fruits and
berries from which to choose. It's a great place for a fruit-lover like me,
but for some reason I chose the state farthest from it in which to live. . .
. Thanks again for the good news.
BTW, I found your Web pages to be most interesting. I intend to read "The
Morality of Abortion: A Critique" and "Can Men Be Lesbians?" as soon as time
permits. It appears that they are well-written.
Oliver
Barrie Mather
Oliver Patterson wrote:
They're related to ebony which probably accouts for the black roots. If
there are any sizeable pieces of your old tree left, they might be well
received by any friend you have who is into wood turning or carving, the
grain is most attractive
Barrie Mather.
Oliver Patterson
> They're related to ebony which probably accouts for the black roots. If
> there are any sizeable pieces of your old tree left, they might be well
> received by any friend you have who is into wood turning or carving, the
> grain is most attractive
Not only was the trunk on my dead persimmon tree small; it had "tunnels"
running through it created by some kind of lovely borer larvae. I had assumed
that the wood would be valuable, because the persimmon is a very slow-growing
tree and because (as you stated) it's related to the ebony ('Diospyros
ebenaster,' if I recall correctly). The tree is loaded with tannins--perhaps
this accounts for the heartwood's dark color. It certainly accounts for the
fruit's infamous astringency when unripe. BTW, I am attempting to find a
method for artificially removing the astringency of American persimmons (which
are abundant in this area). I have found that freezing and thawing the fruit
has that effect. Next I will try boiling one.
Oliver
Susan K. Wehe
support your freeze and thaw theory. Persimmons are quite pretty hanging on a
bare tree and add a little color to the fall garden.
susan
John Prince
says...
>
(Stuff removed...)
>> fruit's infamous astringency when unripe. BTW, I am attempting to
find a
>> method for artificially removing the astringency of American
persimmons (which
>> are abundant in this area). I have found that freezing and thawing
the fruit
>> has that effect. Next I will try boiling one.
>>
>> Oliver
>
saying that persimmons contained in a bag with alcohol will also result
in removal of astringency. You could try vodka, or the like, and see
what results. John
djb
All this tslk of abundant local persimmons has me jealous. Does
anyone know of any wild ones in the Boston area that I could go pick?
Thanks,
Dave
P.S. Remove the space from "djb @stoney.mitre.org" above to get my
real email address.
cschuh...@my-dejanews.com
"Susan K. Wehe" <sw...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> We always wait until after first frost to harvest our persimmons which would
> support your freeze and thaw theory. Persimmons are quite pretty hanging on
a
> bare tree and add a little color to the fall garden.
>
> susan
>
Are we talking wild persimmons here, the marble sized black ones? I've got
lots of them here in San Antonio but they've mostly all fallen off. I picked
some and processed them but the result was disappointing. They have more
seed than pulp and there's not much flavor. Once they're good and ripe our's
aren't too bad, I eat them off the tree sometimes. Our dog picks them and
eats them also. Any ideas on what I can do with my persimmon pulp to make it
taste better? It's sweet enough but kinda bland. This was a great year for
wild persimmons, I had to prop some of my trees to keep the branches from
breaking.
Baby Schuh
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Susan K. Wehe
thought about adding a native persimmon to my yard as I think they have some of the
prettiest shapes with their lack of bark, especially during the winter when they've
dropped their leaves. Few trees are as attractive when naked ;)
BTW, I've never canned or cooked with the native persimmons so I'm not much
help there, however, I will try to find out whatever I can.
susan
Bill Shoemaker
pudding, usually with nuts in it. It is very good and recipes can still be
found for it. Perhaps a search for "persimmon pudding"?
cschuh...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
<6v0gkg$9o8$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
: Are we talking wild persimmons here, the marble sized black ones? I've
:
REstes6687
How are easyare persimmons to graft I have a seedling that I would like to
graft from my big tree
Oliver Patterson
> We always wait until after first frost to harvest our persimmons which would
> support your freeze and thaw theory. Persimmons are quite pretty hanging on a
> bare tree and add a little color to the fall garden.
Here in central Florida, frost comes so late (if it comes at all) that persimmons
fall before they're made edible by freezing temperatures. That's the problem. If I
can find a way to make them edible, I can harvest hundreds of them and make
persimmon bread (delicious).
Oliver
Oliver Patterson
> I have some rather vague memories on this, but I think I'm right in
> saying that persimmons contained in a bag with alcohol will also result
> in removal of astringency. You could try vodka, or the like, and see
> what results. John
That sounds promising. Soaking persimmons in rum before making persimmon
bread with them would probably enhance the flavor. I'll try it.
Oliver
Oliver Patterson
> Wild persimmons were used by the Midwestern pioneers to make a baked
> pudding, usually with nuts in it. It is very good and recipes can still be
> found for it. Perhaps a search for "persimmon pudding"?
>
> cschuh...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
> <6v0gkg$9o8$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
> : Are we talking wild persimmons here, the marble sized black ones? I've
> got
> : lots of them here in San Antonio but they've mostly all fallen off.
The black persimmon you're referring to is only found in Texas and Mexico, I
believe. In the East, there is only the common orange one. I wonder which one
is superior. A good (native) persimmon around here can, at best, taste like a
mix of honey and pumpkins, with a jelly-like consistency. At worst, it can be
so full of tannins that it seems your mouth will never recover.
Oliver
Oliver
Ben Sharvy
texture of an over-ripe tomato. At that time, it will be non-astringent or
nearly so. Drying also removes astringency. Since persimmons usually ripen
in fall, it's not surprsing that people associate frost with loss of
astringency; however, it is perfectly possible to have astringent fruit
after a frost, and ripe, non-astringent fruit that has never been frozen.
The "common" persimmon, e.g. 'Hachiya' is from Asia. American persimmons
are smaller, flatter, and rarely seen in stores.
Some Asian cultivars are naturally non-astringent and can be eaten when
they are crisp (I don't like them as much, myself).
Oliver Patterson
> Frost doesn't remove astringnecy, ripening does. A ripe persimmon is the
> texture of an over-ripe tomato. At that time, it will be non-astringent or
> nearly so. Drying also removes astringency. Since persimmons usually ripen
> in fall, it's not surprsing that people associate frost with loss of
> astringency; however, it is perfectly possible to have astringent fruit
> after a frost, and ripe, non-astringent fruit that has never been frozen.
I've read in a couple of places that the American persimmon, for some reason,
are best eaten after a frost. It's true that they will often ripen (and fall)
before a frost, but many persist on the tree into winter.
Sub-freezing temperatures *do* sometimes (perhaps always) remove astringency
from persimmons, both American and Oriental. Numerous times I have put a
hard, unripe astringent persimmon (such as 'Tanenashi') in the freezer for a
few hours, and it was soft, mushy, and non-astringent when it had thawed.
> The "common" persimmon, e.g. 'Hachiya' is from Asia. American persimmons
> are smaller, flatter, and rarely seen in stores.
I was mistakenly calling the American persimmon the "common" persimmon. The
Oriental (a.k.a. "Kaki") persimmon is probably more often called the "common"
persimmon.
> Some Asian cultivars are naturally non-astringent and can be eaten when
> they are crisp (I don't like them as much, myself).
I don't either, but I have one ('Fuyu') anyway. They're still good, and you
have a better chance of harvesting the fruit before birds or squirrels eat it.
Oliver
Helen Kay
> > Some Asian cultivars are naturally non-astringent and can be eaten when
> > they are crisp (I don't like them as much, myself).
>
> I don't either, but I have one ('Fuyu') anyway. They're still good, and you
> have a better chance of harvesting the fruit before birds or squirrels eat it.
I had not thought much of the flavor of the non-astringent persimmons
until I tasted a thoroughly ripe fruit straight from the tree. It was
still firm, but not "crisp"--maybe a bit firmer than ripe mango?--and
very juicy and sweet. (This was from a 'Fuyu'.) A different
flavor from the soft-ripe astringent types but definitely worth eating. If
I had a tree, I think I'd do some serious netting and leave the fruit for
as long as possible.
Now on the other hand I've tried Black Sapote recently and while the
texture was fabulous, the flavor was nothing to write home about. Has
anyone found a flavorsome cultivar?
Helen.
John Prince
>flavor from the soft-ripe astringent types but definitely worth eating.
If
>I had a tree, I think I'd do some serious netting and leave the fruit
for
>as long as possible.
>
>Now on the other hand I've tried Black Sapote recently and while the
>texture was fabulous, the flavor was nothing to write home about. Has
>anyone found a flavorsome cultivar?
bother to plant, net, and eat Fuyu. If you are going to let it soften
anyway, then there are better tasting astringent cultivars which will
taste better than Fuyu ever will when they are properly ripe. Yes, we do
have Fuyu because we were assembling a small collection, but they are
still not up at the top of the pecking order, for us anyway.
On black sapotes: we tasted both seedling fruit, and the
cultivar `Bernecker' in Cairns some years back, and there was no doubt
that Bernecker had much better size, and had a pleasant (but mild)
flavour, whereas the seedling ones just let us say, `OK, now we've eaten
some of those- so what?' We have both seedling fruit and Bernecker
fruit on trees at the moment, so it will be interesting to see if we
still think the same thing a decade later. John
Helen Kay
> On black sapotes: we tasted both seedling fruit, and the
> cultivar `Bernecker' in Cairns some years back, and there was no doubt
> that Bernecker had much better size, and had a pleasant (but mild)
> flavour, whereas the seedling ones just let us say, `OK, now we've eaten
> some of those- so what?' We have both seedling fruit and Bernecker
> fruit on trees at the moment, so it will be interesting to see if we
> still think the same thing a decade later. John
I'd be interested to hear what you think of both types of fruit on the
second tasting. (A colleague has just announced that she would like to
grow one, but suspects that they're not really suitable for a balcony
garden :-)
Helen.
Lee & Ann Gray
What is all this talk of removing astrigency by such hard work? I grew up with
American persimmons growing wild in the back woods and we NEVER picked them from
the tree. Always waited until they fell. Not so sour then! Mom just turned them
right into pulp and could use them immediantly into pudding or freeze for
later...
Ann
Helen Kay
Well, some people are impatient... (she writes, her mouth puckering in
response to memories of her own impatience with persimmons which looked
like they were _nearly_ there :-)
Helen.
Oliver Patterson
> What is all this talk of removing astrigency by such hard work? I grew up with
> American persimmons growing wild in the back woods and we NEVER picked them from
> the tree. Always waited until they fell. Not so sour then! Mom just turned them
> right into pulp and could use them immediantly into pudding or freeze for
> later...
The insects often get to the ones on the ground before I do, but there are always a
few good ones to be had. . . .
Persimmon pudding? Sounds delicious! I'll have to look for a recipe.
Oliver