Genesis vs. Turbografx

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I gotta know tonight..If you're alone tonight..Can't stop this feeling..Can't stop this fight..I get Hysterical (Hysteria)

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Oct 25, 1990, 6:37:13 AM10/25/90
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Turbografx people get REAL!!!!

I know that it is all a matter of opinion....well ok here is my opinion...

I bought a genesis when it first came out because I liked almost all that sega
had to offer in the arcade....good reason eh....But then I hear about the
turbografx...and a friend of mine buys one. Well I personally feel that it
was the worst investment of his money. I was greatly disappointed when I first
played it, it looked like nintindo graphics and playability. How is this
system supposed to give genesis some competition???? Well first of all turbo
boasts that it has more games available, true, but if one stops and looks at
the prices of the games most which are over $60 (there are a few games under
$40 but they really aren't worth buying). As far as the genesis I have only
found the games Last Battle, Alex Kidd, and Forgotten Worlds were not so good
but sega has made up for those poor releases with awsome releases like Super
Monaco, Afterburner II (one of my personal favorites in the arcade), Michael
Jackson's Moonwalker (which is better than the arcade version in my opinion),
and the mega drive version of Rastan II (which pretty close to the arcade
original). Furthermore I enjoy the background music on the genesis over the
Turbo hands down! Actually I enjoy the graphics and playability of my lynx
over the turbo, so now you know my answer to the TE/Lynx debate.

Also another note....I got to see Dragon's Curse for the turbo and it looked
almost like a duplicate but "souped" up version of the sega master systems
Wonder Boy III......

This is my first posting, but feel free to flame if you want

Teh Kao Yang

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Oct 25, 1990, 5:27:15 PM10/25/90
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In article <45...@bsu-ucs.uucp> 00d...@bsu-ucs.bsu.edu writes:
>
>Turbografx people get REAL!!!!
>
...assorted stuff deleted..

>system supposed to give genesis some competition???? Well first of all turbo
>boasts that it has more games available, true, but if one stops and looks at
>the prices of the games most which are over $60 (there are a few games under
>$40 but they really aren't worth buying). As far as the genesis I have only

I agree completely. Most of the Turbo titles are only 2 meg, but still priced
around $60. Most of the Genesis titles have 4 megs at the same or lower
prices. Some prices like that of Space Harrier is just ridiculous. You can
get Space HArrier 2 on the Genesis for $39. I know that the TG has some great
games, but most of them are available only in Japan (which is also a big
problem for the Genesis.) Another thing about the TG.... do you know that you
have to shell out $$ for a Turbotap just to play 2-player games? And more for
a Turbobooster just to get stereo sound? All these are built in on the
Genesis. The Genesis' Powerstick is also, IMHO, the best joystick ever made.

>and the mega drive version of Rastan II (which pretty close to the arcade
>original). Furthermore I enjoy the background music on the genesis over the
>Turbo hands down! Actually I enjoy the graphics and playability of my lynx

>This is my first posting, but feel free to flame if you want

WOw they have Rastan for the Genesis?? Must be awesome.... the games for the
Genesis has not ceased to amaze me....

Jim Sather

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Oct 26, 1990, 4:04:52 PM10/26/90
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In article <45...@bsu-ucs.uucp> 00d...@bsu-ucs.bsu.edu writes:
|
| Turbografx people get REAL!!!!
|
| I know that it is all a matter of opinion....well ok here is my opinion...
|
| I bought a genesis when it first came out because I liked almost all that sega
[Various reasons why the poster feels the Genesis is better than Turbografx
omitted]

While I tend to agree with you on almost all counts, I think we need to limit
these sort of "Mine is Bigger than Yours" posts. I fear these type of posts
are the spark that starts a whole cycle of meaningless posts on the mine is
better than yours issue. Who cares? :-) If your having fun, enjoy your system,
and don't regret your purchase, what difference does it make? I own, a
Genesis, Nintendo, Sega master system, an Amiga 500, and an IBM PC. Each
system has games I enjoy very much for various reasons whether it be graphics,
gameplay, complexity, sound, or just the fun factor. These sort of posts
really detract from the focus of the group and cause the quality of posts
to go down while every one is arguing for their favorite platform or is facing
game machine envy. When someone asks for advice that's one thing, but attacks
against users of other machines are uncalled for. Like I said earlier, if they
enjoy their machine, what differnce does it make? If they don't enjoy it then
I'm sure they'll work it out somehow by selling it, buying another, etc...
This is not a flame just a request of the group, to keep up the top notch
quality of posts and to not sink into these "Mine is bigger than Yours"
discussions which have plagued the group in the past.

-Jim
ji...@blake.u.washington.edu

Mike Yang

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Oct 26, 1990, 6:20:26 PM10/26/90
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> Another thing about the TG.... do you know that you
> have to shell out $$ for a Turbotap just to play 2-player games? And more for
> a Turbobooster just to get stereo sound? All these are built in on the
> Genesis.

I own a Genesis, and this statement is not really fair. True, I don't
have to spend extra money to get stereo sound, but wiring the headphone
output to the left and right stereo inputs is kind of kludgy.

Also, yes we have two control pad inputs standard. No, we cannot have
more than two, so the Genesis doesn't have N-player games, where N is
more than two.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Yang Silicon Graphics, Inc.
mi...@sgi.com 415/335-1786

tons...@m.cs.uiuc.edu

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Oct 26, 1990, 8:03:00 PM10/26/90
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Genesis people get with the times!! True TG-16 games were a tad overpriced before. But recently there has been about a 5-10 drop in prices across the
board. As for the graphics looking like a Nintendo game, obviously you
haven't seen games the likes of Psychosis or Devil's Crush lately.

If you guys want to talk sound, the TG-16 game Ys Books I & II has 43 tracks
of music on it!! True the Genesis has nine sound generators as compared to the
six which the TG-16 has, but with 800MB of CD-ROM space to play with, TG-16
games definately will have more variety in the musical scores.

From a hardware point of view the TG-16, in my opinion, has a slight edge.
The TG-16 can display 512 colors at a time, Genesis only 64. While Genesis
can manipulate more sprites the sprites on the TG-16 are larger (32 x 64). Furthermore,
I realize that sooner or later someone will point out the the TG-16 is not a
true 16 bit machine. In response to this I say yes, that's true but the TG-16
has more processing power (1.2 MIPS) due to its use of dual 8 bit processors.
The Genesis, in comparison, operates at around 0.7 MIPS. MIPS = millions of
instructions per second. The Genesis may have better resolution, but the TG-16
has resolution equal to the Genesis using overscan. Furthermore, most games
for both systems do not utilize the full power of their graphics capabilities
because most television sets and/or composite monitors cannot support such
high resolutions.

Price ---
A price comparison shows that you'd basically pay about the same for a Genesis
or a TG-16. The Genesis sells for around $190 and comes with stereo sound.
Although the basic TG-16 doesn't support this it does sell for $30 dollars less.Since the TurboBooster can be had for that $30 (check any Toys 'R Us) it
evens out. True in order to play two player games you have to buy the
Turbo Tap, but note that it can support five controllers!! (Note for all
TG-16 devotees: Dungeon Explorer [supports up to five players] is a must for
your system!!!).

Software ---
NEC plans to lower the price of their CD-ROM and when they do TG-16 owners can
look forward to playing Super Darius, Ys Book I and II, and yes, Golden Axe.
Ys is available now and you can special order the other two from Japan. Super
Darius is supposed to be out already but probably due to the high price (and
thus the unpopularity) of the CD-ROM player retailers do not carry it.

I think Genesis is a good system with many good games (Ghouls and Ghosts,
Super Thunder Blade, and especially Phantasie Star II, are great) but I think
that in the long run the TG-16 will be the better entertainment value.

By the way, anybody wanting to boast about having a system better than both
Genesis and TG-16 COMBINED can buy a Neo Geo from SNK probably by the end of
this year. The specs: Two separate processors, a 16-bit 68000 and an 8 bit
Z80A. It can display 4096 colors out of a possible 65536. It supports
up to 380 sprites (16 x 512 max size) and has 15 sound channels. Games can
be up to 330MB in size. How much? $395 for the system, and anywhere from
$125 - $175 for a cart. Special orders from Japan are possible at this
moment, but I would not recommend this since carts from Japan for the system
run from $225 on up.

- Zandos Rhoe

PS - Flame away Genesis fans!!!

Six o'clock News

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Oct 28, 1990, 5:58:13 PM10/28/90
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>
>
>If you guys want to talk sound, the TG-16 game Ys Books I & II has 43 tracks
>of music on it!! True the Genesis has nine sound generators as compared to the
>six which the TG-16 has, but with 800MB of CD-ROM space to play with, TG-16
>games definately will have more variety in the musical scores.
[stuff deleted]

> - Zandos Rhoe
>
>PS - Flame away Genesis fans!!!
From: ch...@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Paul "Mega Drive" Chen)
Path: cory.Berkeley.EDU!chenp

Well, Zandos, to get that wonderful sound, what do you have to buy? How much
is that peripheral?

Of course a CD sounds better than most kinds of sound production (though
I hear Motorola's DSP 56000 [or 58000 or whatever] is 'CD quality').
think most people are talking 'stock' sounds. The TG-16, IMHO, sucks you-
know-what.

All I'm saying is that you PAID $400 for that CD sound. CD quality sound is not
built into the TG-16; you need 550MB (if NEC's CD-ROM format is somewhat
equivalent to an audio CD) and the bandwidth of a CD-ROM player to make that
sound.

'Nuff said. If anybody out ther is a REAL video game player, you'd have all
the systems out now!

paul

p.s. this really isn't a flame (yeah, sure, paul), but I'm just pointing
something out. I have no objections to the TG-16. The only reason I got
a Mega Drive was because Japanese and American carts are compatible. If
the same were true for the PC-engine and the TG-16, I would have gotten
that also!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Paul Chen | Screw Sega of America. Only get games from Japan|
|ch...@cory.berkeley.edu | They're much cheaper! |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark Newton-John

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Oct 29, 1990, 4:16:27 AM10/29/90
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Geez, enough already. Yes, the TG-CD blows away the Sega, but give
me a break. A Corvette can blow away a Cavalier. So what? Let's
compare apples and apples here. There can be no real comparison
until Sega releases it's CD-ROM.

Heck, it's bad enough talking to the Macintosh pirates at work,
thinking they can outdo an Atari DTP system (closed minds), and you
talk about essentially two totally different game systems.

Rather than keep saying mine is bigger/faster/thicker, let's see
something more useful, like *GAME* reviews.

Yes, I am partial towards the NEC. But I like my Sega too. And my
Intellivision. I like Monster Lair, and I like Moonwalker. Sure, I
like the TurboExpress, and I love playing Lynx Klax.

Open your closed little minds, and at least PLAY the other
machine's games. Junk the ones you don't like, and keep the rest.
That's what I do.

After all, you don't hear people screaming that Data East's
consoles are intrisicly better than Konami's, or that the Atari
Games consoles blow away the Neo Geos, huh? HUH? Well? Same thing,
on a different scale.

Quit being so, so... bigoted. And stop wasting bandwidth.


--
the good guys! Sakura-mendo, CA

Internet: mfo...@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US

tons...@m.cs.uiuc.edu

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Oct 29, 1990, 1:21:00 AM10/29/90
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Well, Paul I do agree with you in the fact that the CD-ROM drive for the
TG-16 is very expensive but NEC does plan to reduce the price very soon. You
can't get a CD-ROM drive for Genesis yet, but if it gets really popular maybe
Sega will come out with one. Until then I'll stick with my TG-16. And if
anyone out there is a REAL video game fanatic they'd save the money that they'd
normally spend for a TG-16, Genesis, Nintendo, Super Famicom or whatever and
spend it on a Neo Geo!!!

-Zandos Rhoe

John Leo

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Oct 29, 1990, 9:00:45 PM10/29/90
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Two small comments here:

I thought the graphics of the PC Engine "Altered Beast" were at least
as good if not better than the Megadrive graphics. The reason the PC
Engine version is terrible is not the graphics but rather the use of
the CD-ROM. The game has to stop every minute or so to load in more
information, which makes it completely unplayable. Avoid this game!

The new "BoxyBoy" for the TG-16 (I was wondering if it would come
out!), "Boxxle" for Gameboy and "Shove it!" for Genesis are all the
same game: it is called "Sokoban" and was originally made for
computers. "Sokoban 2" is now available for Gameboy in Japan, though.

It's a quiet little life with no problems between | John Leo
the stove that smokes and the ever-open window that | l...@theory.lcs.mit.edu
looks out on a landscape becomming daily less |
coherent...But what am I saying? And to whom?...
All questions not worth asking from now on. (Alain Robbe-Grillet)

Six o'clock News

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Oct 29, 1990, 10:14:20 PM10/29/90
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>>>can manipulate more sprites the sprites on the TG-16 are larger (32 x 64). Furthermore,
>>
>>Yeah, but only 8 sprites on 1 line sounds like a pretty lame technology.
>>
>Yes, when you compare how many of the LARGEST sprites, the TG can have 8 per
>scan line. You neglect to mention that the Genesis can have only 5 (yes, five)
>(32 X 32) sprites on the same line. Don't just post 50% of the information,
>you're starting to sound like EGM ;).
From: hl...@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Sir Han J. Lee)
Path: cory.Berkeley.EDU!hlee

Where you got the information is beyond my imaginations, but simply put,
you are WRONG, dude!
Genesis can do 20; I've got several reliable sources : October issue
of Beep! Mega Drive, November (1989) issue of High Score (one of the Japanese
game magazines) and also in, I forget which issues but, Famicom Tsushin,
Mega Drive Fan and Gameboy.
I haven't posted just 50% of the information; obviously you haven't read
my previous article concerning some specs of the machines.
Like I posted before, even the $300 NEC Super Grafx can only do 16 per
scan line (in the same sources).
Super Famicom can do 30.

If you, however, tell me how and where you got the information, I'll hold
my sources for now and go on further investigation, although I've got
already 5 reliable sources of the information.

If you want to see what Genesis can do check out Thunder Force III.


Han. ___
/| /|| |/\
hl...@cory.Berkeley.EDU / |/ || |>-|
/_____||_|_/

Sir Han J. Lee

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Oct 29, 1990, 3:21:23 PM10/29/90
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>
>From a hardware point of view the TG-16, in my opinion, has a slight edge.
>The TG-16 can display 512 colors at a time, Genesis only 64. While Genesis

Yeah, just give me any TG-16 game that has all 512 colors in the same screen,
most of the time it's less than 32, and that's enough to produce a great
looking graphics.

>can manipulate more sprites the sprites on the TG-16 are larger (32 x 64). Furthermore,

Yeah, but only 8 sprites on 1 line sounds like a pretty lame technology.

If you STILL want to argue about the technical superiority of one to the
other, compare the PC Engine version of Altered Beast (yes they have it for
the PC Engine:) ) with the Genesis version of Altered Beast.
The PC Engine version sucks compared to the Genesis version, although the
PC version came even a year after the Genesis' (Mega Drive's that is.)

Brad Hamlett

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Oct 29, 1990, 5:06:43 PM10/29/90
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In article <29...@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> hl...@cory.Berkeley.EDUIn article <1370...@m.cs.uiuc.edu> tons...@m.cs.uiuc.edu writes: writes:
>>can manipulate more sprites the sprites on the TG-16 are larger (32 x 64). Furthermore,
>
>Yeah, but only 8 sprites on 1 line sounds like a pretty lame technology.
>
Yes, when you compare how many of the LARGEST sprites, the TG can have 8 per
scan line. You neglect to mention that the Genesis can have only 5 (yes, five)
(32 X 32) sprites on the same line. Don't just post 50% of the information,
you're starting to sound like EGM ;).

But, back to the important stuff....Games.

For Genesis owners....Phelios is now out. I spied it at a local Software Etc.
the other day. The price on it was $54.97. I was tempted, but with TF III
and Sword of Vermillion on the way, I decided to wait. Phelios is based on the
arcade game of the same name.

For TG owners.....a couple of new puzzle games came out over the weekend.
One by the name of BoxyBoy which is a Boxxle/Shove it! clone. It listed for
$39.99 at a local Babbage's. The other is a game by the name of Drop Off.
Drop Off looks like a cross between Tetris and breakout?!? I was listed at
$44.99. Neither looked terribly interesting.

Where's TF III? Valis II? Last Alert? Sword of Vermillion?
aaah....the waiting.


Brad Hamlett *
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 *
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers} * *
!gatech!prism!ccastbh *******
Internet: cca...@prism.gatech.edu *** * * ***
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* Atlanta *
* * *** * * * * * * *** * *
* * Host city * *
*** For the ***
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Robert Jung

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Oct 29, 1990, 10:34:57 PM10/29/90
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Gee, that subject almost sounds like the sequel to "Appliance Wars", the
STAR WARS-parody home movie of years back...

In article <42...@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US> mfo...@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (Mark Newton-John) writes:
> [A heartwarming plea to end the systems wars deleted]


>
>Open your closed little minds, and at least PLAY the other
>machine's games. Junk the ones you don't like, and keep the rest.
>That's what I do.

Easy if you've got a lot of money, or work with all the systems nearby
all the time. Sometimes, though, I wonder if people consider the costs
(financially) involved in this hobby.

>After all, you don't hear people screaming that Data East's
>consoles are intrisicly better than Konami's, or that the Atari
>Games consoles blow away the Neo Geos, huh? HUH? Well? Same thing,
>on a different scale.

Well, I'm partial to Atari Games/Tengen's arcade titles myself, over
everyone else's "me-too" shoot-em-ups/beat-em-ups/ninja-em-ups...

>Quit being so, so... bigoted. And stop wasting bandwidth.

Well, under controlled conditions, a system-vs.-system "debate" can be
constructive and amusing. Similar to the "Battlestar Galactica vs. USS
Enterprise" in rec.arts.startrek, or "Bart Simpson vs. Calvin & Hobbes"
in alt.tv.simpsons. The trick is for everyone to present facts/observations,
and leave personal attacks ("Anyone who likes the TurboGraphix must be
a lobotomized primate") out of it.

Gee, let's just remember that these are machines. In five or six years,
who'll defend the Genesis, Lynx, or Turbo against the latest batch of
machines?

--R.J.
B-)

P.S. Me, I'll take anything that gives me the most bang for the buck.

//////////////////////////////////////|\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Send whatevers to jj...@nunki.usc.edu | If it has pixels, I'm for it.
--------------------------------------+----------------------------Lynx me up!
"You weren't chosen because you're the best pilot in the Air Force. You were
chosen because you're the class clown and frankly, you're expendable."

Six o'clock News

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Oct 29, 1990, 11:08:52 PM10/29/90
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>
>I thought the graphics of the PC Engine "Altered Beast" were at least
>as good if not better than the Megadrive graphics. The reason the PC
>Engine version is terrible is not the graphics but rather the use of
>the CD-ROM. The game has to stop every minute or so to load in more
>information, which makes it completely unplayable. Avoid this game!
>
No, it's exactly the opposite. John, I presume you don't really care
about the graphics and thus not pay close attention to it, at least
that's the impression I get whenever I read your articles.
I thought what made PC Engine Altered Beast playable was its use of CD-ROM,
which has great sound. But just turn down the volume and voila!-- flat
graphics, lack of color, smaller characters and especially mediocre
repetive pattern in the background.
The game has, however, one feature that was missing from the Mega Drive
version : when you become the werewolf and press the kick button, you
should really be kicking while flying. MD version doesn't do that while
PC Engine version does, although it really makes no big difference.

From: hl...@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Sir Han J. Lee)
Path: cory.Berkeley.EDU!hlee

Clayton Cowgill

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Oct 30, 1990, 6:42:58 PM10/30/90
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As per annual my-system-is-better-than-your-system squabble:

ne of the better (IMHO) reasons that I got a Genesis over the TG-16 was
simply because there are _no_ places that rent TG-16 cards anywhere near the
cities I go to school or live in!
By contrast, Corvallis (where OSU is), has two video-rental chains
both with very Nice selections of all the latest games, plus multiple copies of the big hits...
+-------------------------------------------+---------------------------------+
| "Yeah. Yup. That cop is definitely turn- | Clayton Cowgill |
| ing around..." | cow...@prism.cs.orst.edu |
| Disclaimer: I'm not speaking for anyone. | "So... Think he noticed?" |
+-------------------------------------------+---------------------------------+

Mark Newton John

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Oct 31, 1990, 4:17:34 AM10/31/90
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So what? You don't like a particular port for a game? You certainly
won't change anyone's mind either way. The people who are partial
to TG-16s couldn't give a shit less.

No matter what anyone says, someone just *has* to say something.
Who cares? In another post, Strider for the SuperGrafx is coming
out, and it has been shown that the Ghouls and Ghosts SG is better
than the Genesis, SG Strider will be equally better than the
Genesis version.

But noooooooo. *I* don't say narrow minded things like "the Genesis
version will absolutely SUCK....." I just post that Strider is
coming out for the SG.

Personally, I don't even CARE that much that the SG Ghouls and
Ghosts has been said better than the Genesis version (as published
in American video game magazines). What I do care about, are the
prejudicial comments made about certain versions of the same bloody
game.

I have Fantasy Zome for the SMS and the TG-16. The Sega version is
better. But I won't post "The TG Fantasy Zone sucks".

Mark Newton John

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Oct 31, 1990, 4:31:13 AM10/31/90
to

Geez, if anyone is going to dispute any specifications, post it,
will you?

Here's sprite information for both machines.

TurboGrafx-16 Genesis
Colors per
character block 16 16

Color blocks
per background
screen 16 4

Colors on
background
screen at once 241 64

Sprites per
screen 64 (larger 80
sprites)

Sprite size 16x16 to 32x64 8x8 or 32x32
programmable

Colors per
sprite 16 16

Total colors
on screen-
background and
sprites 482 16

Maximum sprites
per scan line 16 (16x16) 20 (8x8)
8 (32x64) 5 (32x32)


So there. For you bithead that care, and for the rest of us who
don't. Like I said before, technical specifications will not be the
absolute judge of system performance.

Clayton Cowgill

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Nov 2, 1990, 5:03:02 PM11/2/90
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In article <42...@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US> mfo...@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (Mark Newton John) writes:
>
>
>Geez, if anyone is going to dispute any specifications, post it,
>will you?
>
>Total colors
>on screen-
>background and
>sprites 482 16
>
>So there. For you bithead that care, and for the rest of us who
>don't. Like I said before, technical specifications will not be the
>absolute judge of system performance.
>

Geez, if you're going to post the specifications, get them right... Anyone
can plainly see that at least the above statistic is wrong. (Only 16 colors!
yeah. Sure. Right.)

This system bickering is getting really annoying- and I think I shall add to
it: The TG-16s statistic of "64butthey'rebigger" sprites, and "programmable"
sized sprites- 16x16 minimun? What a total waste of graphic processor time if
you need a bunch of small 'bullets'. 16x16 pixel missiles would be pretty big.
Maybe that's why R-Type flickers so bad.

Screen colors- If the TG can do 241 colors, why don't some games use it? Could
it be that a screen of that size would require about 70K for bit-mapped
graphics? Even if you use a block color matrix (at the expense of some of the
flexibility) you still get a lot of processor overhead.

All of this "mine's better" is moot anyway because the system that sells the
most will be the winner. Look at VHS vs. Beta. Beta was better, VHS had the
masses behind it. NES vs. Sega MS, Master system was better- the public bought
Nintendo. Where I live the Genesis is winning hands-down. I've only seen one
TG-16 in the last year (except at Toys R Us) and it was up for sale to get a
Genesis.

I say the TG-16 becomes the Atari ST of the video game world- Popular in some
areas, better at some things than it's competition, cheaper in some respects,
but largely unrecognized in "Mass Appeal".

Now let's see some more posts about how many more MIPS the TG-16 is capable of
over the Genesis. I'll be sitting here in my Asbestos Suit laughing. Buy the
system that you like best, then quite trying to force your beliefs on everyone
else. Better yet, buy both and don't feel so threatened about what everyone
else thinks.

-Clay

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