Sonic impressions
l...@hpljdw.hpljdw.hpl.hp.com
in magazines, and even more so after hearing all the raves on the net. What
seemed especially interesting was the use of "speed", which seemed original
for an action game and potentially very exciting. So I rented it out
yesterday, and here are some impressions. Insert "in my humble opinion"
wherever appropriate.
First of all, I'm surprised that a number of people are saying this is better
than the Super Mario series. I love that series and Sonic isn't even close to
the same league. SMB is better is almost every respect: imagination,
technique, feel, variety...you name it. I also like the graphics and music in
the SMB series better, but then I'm not a big fan of Sega's style for either
of those. I lost track of all the things Sonic stole from the SMB series, but
that's quite common for a game of this type. Still, it's probably the best
Super Mario imitator around, and I really like this kind of game in general.
Aside from Mario, Sonic owes the most to Castle of Illusion Starring Mickey
Mouse, and it seems it must have been done by the same group of people. In
fact after a while I realized the source of inspiration for Sonic must have
been my favorite surprise scene in Mickey, namely the end of the "climbing"
stage in the toy world. Most of the "surprises" in Sonic can be found in SMB
or Mickey, but there were still a fair number of new elements that kept us
entertained.
There are several other games we found parallels to also, such as Altered
Beast (scenes), Revenge of Shinobi (music and some graphics), the Mega Man
series (scenes), Bonk's Adventure (using other parts of the body to kill
enemies), etc. And the Bonus Stages, something of a disappointment after
seeing screen shots, are based on Taito's 1990 arcade game Camel Try (where
you maneuver a ball through a 2D maze by rotating the maze around the ball,
much like Assault. I really enjoyed the game, but it didn't seem very popular
and I've never seen it in the US.)
The graphics of Sonic vary; there are some very pretty parts but other parts
are an eyesore (I'm thinking mainly of the Green Hill Zone). Mickey Mouse is
better in graphics and sound effects and about the same in music. A big
disappointment is that the feel for Sonic is not that good, and good feel is
important for whether a game can last for many replayings. Mickey Mouse had
an excellent feel, as does the SMB series of course. But Sonic is much harder
and more involved than Mickey, so I like it better in that way.
I was most interested to see how they would handle "speed"; it seemed
hard to do well because you want to make the difficulty "just right": you
don't want to just let the player zoom through with no obstacles, yet it's
tough to dodge things at high speed. Also you've got to have a lot of
background scenery if you want to keep the game length reasonable. Sega's
solution to the first problem is to only have speed stretches be a part of the
game; during the rest of the time it's just an ordinary slow-moving game like
Mickey. For the scenery problem they reuse a lot of backgrounds, and I
wondered if I was in a loop as I'd pass the same obstacles again and again in
a stage. The game needs more variety. Like Mickey I was disappointed that
you can interact with little of the background scenery; this is another lesson
the imitators haven't learned yet from SMB.
Overall the "speed" idea was nice, but disappointing. A good first try and I
hope other designers explore this more. It didn't take long to realize that
Sonic's "speed" had actually been done before, in fact for the SMB series,
achieved by holding down the B button. Of course Mario can't reach Sonic's
top speeds, but there are so many slow parts to Sonic and so many parts you
can just race through the Mario games that the latter seems faster. (Speed is
especially important in the original SMB2, a very hard game not released in
the US, where much of the game is spent holding down the B button, making
blind jumps onto the backs of flying turtles and so forth.) And although I
haven't played through all of Sonic there hasn't been anything to match world
8-1 of SMB1, or the airforce stage of SMB3. Rather than speed I'd say the
main innovation of Sonic is the curved tracks and loops, which are quite cool.
Speed could have been better if they'd followed another great idea of SMB,
which is to set things up very precisely. This is all over the place in the
SMB series: they set things up so once you figure out what's going on, you can
race through levels barely missing everything and it's very exciting. I tried
doing this in Sonic and it does work sometimes but usually they place things
so that if you're going too fast you'll run into them or whatever and die.
Far better to have penalized players for moving too slowly!
The game doesn't seem very long, but the stage select feature is very welcome,
since I got sick of Green Hill Zone very quickly. This is the kind of game
that's impressive at first, but because of so-so feel and lack of things to do
(not many techniques, for example) gets boring after a while. When I first
started playing I thought it was great and that I'd definitely buy it; now I'm
not unhappy to be returning it soon. Kyoko too liked it a lot at first but
then quickly got tired and went back to Columns (which we also rented) and
Nintendo's Famicom Wars, which she's stayed up all night a couple times
playing. Now I can't wait to rent out Super Mario World tomorrow....
John Leo
l...@hpljdw.hpl.hp.com
Han J. Lee
But after reading your article, I was almost certain that you haven't played
the game enough to appreciate its true beauty.
I fell in love with the Sonic the first time I popped in the cartridge,
and then the love grew twice as stronger after
I found out how to do the spin attack (not the jump-and-spin attack, but
the one you do while rolling on the ground in light speed). Then the
love became an ectasy when I was playing pinballs in Spring Yard Zone. Then
the ecstasy bursted into a thrill after riding a several roller coaster
ride in the Star Light Zone. As a matter of fact, I've been playing Sonic
non-stop for past 4 days now. (I've never done that to a video game) Today, I
finally made it to the end, except I didn't get all the Chaos Emeralds so
I can't say I've finished it. Well, after seeing an ending to a game, I
should be putting it in a closet for permanant rest, but I'm not doing that
to Sonic. I'm not even going to pop the Sonic cartridge out until the
Out Run comes out on August.
As for some of your comments on how Sonic "copied" ideas from Mario and
Bonk, I basically disagree. In fact, I think Sonic is one of the most
innovative and immaginative games ever created.
Sonic does make FULL use of the interactions with backgrounds. In fact, this
is Sonic's strongest point.
You can use the full potential of super speed only after you find out how
to do the spin attack on the ground -- this makes Sonic go at a full speed
without being interrupted, and also in the loops and roller coaster rides.
Also, The Sonic Team (the staff behind Sonic) != Mickey Mouse Team.
Last but not least, the stage select feature is NOT a welcomed feature.
(To whoever posted it orignially, shame on you ! :-) )
I can see why people would appreciate the game less after trying out this
feature myself. To people who haven't used it or are not aware of its
existence or just passed it by on the net (smart people), don't even
try to find out! It makes the game _look_ a lot shorter.
___
Han J. Lee /| /|| |/\
hl...@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Internet) / |/ || |>-|
/_____||_|_/
So, is Sonic II going to be on CD-ROM?
Ben Yoshino
I think that he raises some valid points complaining about Sonic. IMHO,
the ideas presented by Sega in Sonic the Hedgehog are not "old" per se. I
just finished the game today, and was pleased to find that some of the
scenes had graphics which were much more detailed than Mickey Mouse.
Particularly the Star Light stage, where you can see multiple levels of
parallax scrolling. Near the end, some of the tactics used remind me of
Mega Man I, II and III.
All in all, though, I think Sega has done a good job finally putting
together a "Mario" type game, which has many hidden secret rooms. When you
get into a game like this, the graphics take a second seat to the actual
feeling that the game gives. I part of the "I'm hyped over Sonic" camp,
opposite of the "big deal" crew.
Of course, I may be rambling, and maybe that's why nobody reads my
posts. No prob.
Ben "BenSKI!" Yoshino
===============================================================================
"I went to grad. school, since I didn't want to work YET."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Y. Yoshino University of Hawaii at Manoa
2591 Dole St. Apt. I753 College of Engineering
Honolulu, Hawaii 96822 Department of Electrical Engineering
Address: b...@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu
===============================================================================
Terence Spielman
>Gee I'm sorry to hear that you didn't like Sonic that much, John.
>But after reading your article, I was almost certain that you haven't played
>the game enough to appreciate its true beauty.
>
>Last but not least, the stage select feature is NOT a welcomed feature.
>(To whoever posted it orignially, shame on you ! :-) )
>I can see why people would appreciate the game less after trying out this
>feature myself. To people who haven't used it or are not aware of its
>existence or just passed it by on the net (smart people), don't even
>try to find out! It makes the game _look_ a lot shorter.
>
I only posted the stage select as an extra feature for Sonic lovers.
I agree with Han in the respect that stage selects can ruin the game in
terms of difficulty. That's why I have not used it yet. I haven't
even gotten very far on Sonic, so I should be tempted too, but then again
that's because I'm playing Eye of the Beholder on my PC.
> Han J. Lee /| /|| |/\
> hl...@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Internet) / |/ || |>-|
> /_____||_|_/
>
>So, is Sonic II going to be on CD-ROM?
What CD-rom? Supposedly that won't be out for ages! Well according to
EGM anyway, and we know that they have prize journalism don't we?!
BTW, can anyone tell me what is the point of play in Arcus Oddyssey?
My brother bought it for me in Japan because it was the most expensive
MD cartridgr and it looks top notch. The music, gaphics and game-play
are all excellent, unfortunately, I think it's an RPG and I don't
read Japanese.
Terence
--
Terence Spielman ___ __ spie...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
o/ --KIYAP!! | \/ \ \_/__] ,',',',',',',','`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
/|___ | \/ o /''''......,' "A good education can never hurt
<, | \\/ \,,,,......, an active imagination."---Says Me
Larry Yaeger
review of Sonic - others have answered, and I'm much too deeply embedded in
the 'greatest thing since Pong' camp (besides, I've got to get back to
playing it!).
However, I would like to correct my own comment in an earlier posting that
I didn't think the "Sonic attack" was that big a deal... I just hadn't
experimented with it in enough places yet! It really is an innovative and
fun addition to the game, letting you make subtle or huge changes in your
path through the game. As someone else said, making multiple swoops in the
Starlight Zone is a hoot! And swinging through the ether to pass through a
block of rings in mid-air or make a blind landing on a new path is great!
And then there's the kick of finally figuring out how to reach a particular
place you've been seeing for some time...
--
-lar...@apple.com
"You wouldn't recognize a *subtle plan* if it painted itself purple,
and danced naked upon a harpsichord, singing, 'Subtle Plans are Here Again'."
- Edmund Blackadder
l...@hpljdw.hpljdw.hpl.hp.com
enjoy it; obviously a lot of people do and that's great. I liked Mickey Mouse
a lot and fully expected Sonic to be excellent, and it was disappointing for
me at least. I was mainly concerned with the comments that that Sonic was so
incredibly original or whatever. I also wanted to temper all the rave reviews
and suggest "try it before you buy it." Anyway I've played some more and also
played Super Mario World now, so I have a few more comments.
In article <14...@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> hl...@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Han J. Lee) writes:
>Gee I'm sorry to hear that you didn't like Sonic that much, John.
>But after reading your article, I was almost certain that you haven't played
>the game enough to appreciate its true beauty.
Actually I played quite a bit. I did all the things you mentioned. I
"interacted" with as much of the scenery as possible (there's still a lot
that's just pretty pictures, but I understand what you mean). I did the
rolling spin attack, and it does add a lot to the game, especially in letting
you go faster. But still there are just a couple of techniques; that combined
with very uninteresting enemies got boring very quickly. I agree with people
that the Starlight stage is the best; I did enjoy that one although there were
slow moments (such as the ball and levers).
>As for some of your comments on how Sonic "copied" ideas from Mario and
>Bonk, I basically disagree. In fact, I think Sonic is one of the most
>innovative and immaginative games ever created.
I completely disagree with this. Have you actually played any of the Mario
games, especially 3 and 4? I can trace almost everything in Sonic to another
game, especially the Mario series. In fact now that I've played Mario 4
(which came out in Japan November 1990; Sonic was actually released here first
and won't be out in Japan until late July) many more elements of Sonic that I
might have thought were original had appeared in that. About the only things
I can find that seem original in Sonic now are the curved tracks, the ball and
levers, and the pinball effects (although those also appear in an interesting
way in F-ZERO!).
In contrast I was amazed at Super Mario World, which I just expected to be a
16 bit version of SMB3. Once again Miyamoto and friends are way ahead of
everyone else and have come up with an incredibly imaginative and fresh game
in a genre where you wouldn't think that was possible. The techniques,
surprises, humor, environments, interactions between elements, not to mention
graphics, sound and music are all superb. If you liked Sonic you'll
definitely have to try it out. I'll post more later.
>Last but not least, the stage select feature is NOT a welcomed feature.
>(To whoever posted it orignially, shame on you ! :-) )
>I can see why people would appreciate the game less after trying out this
>feature myself. To people who haven't used it or are not aware of its
>existence or just passed it by on the net (smart people), don't even
>try to find out! It makes the game _look_ a lot shorter.
I disagree strongly with this, and was very grateful to know about level
select. Making someone play the early levels over and over again as a way to
increase apparent game length is a stupid idea which is fortunately going out
of style. I wouldn't mind so much if the earlier levels were more
interesting, but even then after a hundred plays or so things can get tiring.
Far better though to design a game that is so big and has so much to do (not
to mention being fun to play) that a stage select feature does nothing to
shorten the life of it. Take SMB3 as an example. You can find out about the
warps in the game and get to later levels to sample them, but they are very
tough because they rely on techniques you must learn in earlier levels (this
is very deliberatly planned). Furthermore there are many especially difficult
things to do that are optional so even once you finish and are good you can go
back and find quite a lot more. So the warps don't detract a bit.
Actually Super Mario World has the perfect solution by addding battery backup
to the game. At certain points you can save the entire state (you can also go
back and play almost any earlier area) which is just wonderful. And again
there is so much to do that it doesn't shorten the game at all. We've been
playing constantly for a couple days (in fact Kyoko stayed up again all night)
and have only explored a small portion.
Face it, Sonic is just a very short game. In fact the apparent length of the
levels and multiple passages are something of a fraud because so many scenes
are just reused. Even the secret rooms were nothing special. Playing for a
day and using level select I reached the end of almost every stage and
explored many (but certainly not all) of the different pathways. I also
finished the final zone which was not tough but took a while to figure out (I
would have been really mad though if I'd had to start all over at the
beginning after that, though!). The ending too was similar to many other game
endings, but I did like the very last scene which suggests you've got to get
all the chaos emeralds.
Anyway, that's all I've got to say about Sonic I guess. Back to the usual
rave reviews, and I have some raves coming up for Super Mario World.
John Leo
l...@hpljdw.hpl.hp.com
Edcon Chang
prefer Sonic to the former because Sonic tends to have much better graphics &
sound then SMW (also known as Super Mario Bros. 4 on the Super Famicom). SMW
is a bigger game though and the way you can get the feather and fly around is
pretty neat, but it looks more like a kiddie game than Sonic.
Lawrence Chiu
Doug Quarnstrom
>KNOCKING HIM! JUST BECAUSE SEGA MAKES ONE SMOOTH GAME, NINTENDO FANS HAVE
>A CONNIPTION!
Jesus. Your talking about him like he is real. Time for councelling.
doug
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Richard Bretscheider
Isn't that the point Doug? Sonic has personality. It's a great game
because of a great *character*. Of course he's real, I saw him on
TV. :-)
--
"If you're not going to kill me, I've got things to do."
Ric Bretschneider
apple!netcom!ric
BWAH-Ha-ha!
00kmro...@bsu-ucs.uucp
Mike Robertson
Eric Scott Boltz
^^^^^^^^^^^
Time for spelling lessons! 8-)
Doug Quarnstrom
^^^^^^^^^^^
>Time for spelling lessons! 8-)
Yep, I guess so. I rarely spend time checking spelling in throwaway
postings. Also, I stopped ragging on people for it too, because
some day you will find a typo or an outright spelling error in one of
your posts, and will be somewhat vulverable to the same attack.
doug
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