"Impressed" with Saturn Doom *gasp* (JPN version)
Etti...@hotmail.com
put this into a new topic... because quite frankly I was appalled to
learn about all the bad stuff the Saturn Doom conversion suffered.
When I first got into Saturn and being the Doom fanatic I was,
naturally I did some probing about the Saturn conversion and the news
wasn't good. People blasted the US and PAL versions.
But alas, my last gleam of hope -- the Japanese version. This was
released later than the US and PAL versions and I always wondered...
did they fix the frame rate ANY?
Well, thanks to James of thewestexit.net (great seller folks!) I'm
happy to say that JPN Saturn Doom isn't half-bad!!!
US Doom... "oh, get 2 monsters and forget about it."
In JPN Doom, I opened a door to 10 imps... it was perfectly fine!
Now, before we get TOO excited Powerslave's frame rate still kicks JPN
Doom's ass easily.
But I ain't pulling ya leg... it's not that bad!
James, if you read this please reply, as you told me that you thought
the game wasn't half-bad either.
Also, it's 2 players! (well, not that anyone will ever play it 2
players...) but hey, it's there isn't it?
So it seems like after many moons of wondering -- I got my answer.
They *DID* tweak the JPN version to be playable.
Even on the back of the box, Doom creator John Romero stated "BEST
DOOM VERSION YET." Now I dunno what he was smoking but it is pretty
OK.
Bottom line, still not the conversion we deserved but a far cry from
"horrible."
I think JPN Doom is the 4th best FPS on Saturn, behind Powerslave,
Duke and Quake... but ahead of Alien Trilogy.
It's nice to know there was a decent version of Doom on Saturn, at
least in my eyes anyhow. I just started playing it tonight and right
now I'm on level 19 of Ultimate Doom. It's really been a pleasant
surprise.
Soft Bank published it... dunno if RAGE was behind it but their logo
and GT Interactive pops up in the beginning.
Music is f'ed up but everything else... not bad...
If I had to grade it so far... C+
Mojo JoJo
A comparison would be lovely :-)
Mojo
<Etti...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41639b09.04013...@posting.google.com...
Joe Ottoson
news:41639b09.04013...@posting.google.com:
> Hey I posted a little about this in my "obscure" thread but thought I
> put this into a new topic... because quite frankly I was appalled to
> learn about all the bad stuff the Saturn Doom conversion suffered.
> When I first got into Saturn and being the Doom fanatic I was,
> naturally I did some probing about the Saturn conversion and the news
> wasn't good. People blasted the US and PAL versions.
>
> But alas, my last gleam of hope -- the Japanese version. This was
> released later than the US and PAL versions and I always wondered...
> did they fix the frame rate ANY?
>
> Well, thanks to James of thewestexit.net (great seller folks!) I'm
> happy to say that JPN Saturn Doom isn't half-bad!!!
>
> US Doom... "oh, get 2 monsters and forget about it."
Not quite. More like it ran like shit no matter what was going on.
> In JPN Doom, I opened a door to 10 imps... it was perfectly fine!
Rock solid 3fps?
> Also, it's 2 players! (well, not that anyone will ever play it 2
> players...) but hey, it's there isn't it?
THe US version had this "feature" too. Doesn't work.
> So it seems like after many moons of wondering -- I got my answer.
> They *DID* tweak the JPN version to be playable.
I doubt it.
> Even on the back of the box, Doom creator John Romero stated "BEST
> DOOM VERSION YET." Now I dunno what he was smoking but it is pretty
> OK.
Romero never even saw or cared about Saturn Doom.
> Bottom line, still not the conversion we deserved but a far cry from
> "horrible."
It was worse than horrible. There's no excuse for the frame rate in
Saturn Doom. Alien vs Predator on the Jag outspeeds it, and AvP ran at 7
fps.
> I think JPN Doom is the 4th best FPS on Saturn, behind Powerslave,
> Duke and Quake... but ahead of Alien Trilogy.
You're insane.
> Soft Bank published it... dunno if RAGE was behind it but their logo
> and GT Interactive pops up in the beginning.
It's the exact same game. You're on crack.
Joe Ottoson
news:rYySb.3527$GO6...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
> Have you played the American/Euro version to see if you could compare
> them? A comparison would be lovely :-)
I want videos. No way in hell did Saturn Doom warrant "Hey, this isn't half
bad!"
Etti...@hotmail.com
I set up Doom II on Ultra Violence and came in a room with an
assortment of zombie soldiers and imps... possibly 10+.
It wasn't THAT jerky. I got through it fine.
0_0
Hey I was as surprised as you would be yourself!
However, I did find one level absolutely HORRIBLE... but it is ONLY IN
THIS ONE LEVEL SO FAR that I have found the frame rate to really be as
bad as everyone says it is.
And that level is "Hell Beneath" or something like that. The
others... they run, OK maybe not "fine" but they are playable!
I'm not saying this game rocks or anything, but seeing how everyone
has blasted the PAL and US versions I was scared to even boot the JPN
version up.
Imagine my surprise when things weren't so bad.
James Wilson get your butt in here. ;)
Etti...@hotmail.com
According to GameFAQS
Doom GT Interactive 03/31/97 NA
Doom Soft Bank 07/11/97 JP
See, the JPN version did see a later release, and at this point in
time I'm inclined to believe that they improved the frame rate enough
to be playable, sans a level or two.
In reading SEGA Saturn Magazine, Rich Leadbetter wrote this caption
under a pic of a couple monsters on screen.
"Uh oh... more than 1 monster on screen? Frame rate, come on down!"
(in apparent mock style of Price is Right's Bob Barker)
In JPN Saturn Doom -- I shit you not... 5 monsters and the frame rate
doesn't slow down like everyone else has said. IT DOES NOT. (again,
except for Hell Beneath, which seems like the US/PAL version everyone
else played)
The other levels? They mysteriously work fine...
http://www.thewestexit.net/images/doom.jpg
I'm almost thru Ultimate Doom (and have started on Doom II for the
heck of it... call it research) and there aren't many "super slowdown"
moments like the lot of you would have the public believe.
Bottom line, IF YOU MUST HAVE DOOM ON SATURN (read: you're a sick sick
puppy like me) then BY ALL MEANS GET THE JAPANESE VERSION. Hell, it's
even in ALL english! All of it! With a much better cover art and
back insert than the crappy US PAL versions too.
:)
Go ahead, laugh at me and point the liar finger. I'll be having fun
taking down 2 Baron of Hells with a single shotgun in fine workable
motion.
;)
Etti...@hotmail.com
----
From: KikkoBoy01 (kikko...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: Import version of Doom on Saturn?
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.sega
Date: 2003-04-19 21:17:40 PST
If they say Doom is Hell, then I might indeed be stepping into Hell.
I just have to investigate.... I shall hunt down a JPN copy of Saturn
DooM and
post back with insight and thoughts...
I'm hoping somehow the JPN version was fixed to be playable...
I shall report back hopefully by July. Wish me well.
If I don't come back, or am too disgusted with what I played to
post... well...
SEE YA ALL IN HELL!
(I love writing action movie one-liner-esque endings to my posts)
--
From: James Wilson (MJWI...@columbus.rr.com)
Subject: Re: Import version of Doom on Saturn?
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.sega
Date: 2003-04-20 10:46:57 PST
I actually have the Import Saturn version of Doom (not too surprising
since
I have over 600 import saturn games) and I'll tell you honestly, I
halfway
enjoyed it. I don't have it with me atm so I can't compare it to the
others
in the series, also before I played it I hadn't played a FPS in years,
so
maybe that's why I'm the only person with a positive opinion of it =)
It's
definitely no Powerslave, but I had fun with it at the time.
///////////////////////////////////////////
James Wilson
Email: sa...@thewestexit.net
Web: www.thewestexit.net
ICQ: 18133825
AIM: suede179
MSN: tri...@hotmail.com
///////////////////////////////////////////
--
From: Joe Ottoson (gro...@landfill.net)
Subject: Re: Import version of Doom on Saturn?
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.sega
Date: 2003-04-20 12:44:00 PST
"James Wilson" <MJWI...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in
news:k2Boa.125756$0X.28...@twister.columbus.rr.com:
> I actually have the Import Saturn version of Doom (not too surprising
> since I have over 600 import saturn games) and I'll tell you honestly,
> I halfway enjoyed it. I don't have it with me atm so I can't compare
> it to the others in the series, also before I played it I hadn't
> played a FPS in years, so maybe that's why I'm the only person with a
> positive opinion of it =) It's definitely no Powerslave, but I had
> fun with it at the time.
It still has the decent game design behind it, but it's really meant
to run
at around 15-30fps, which every other version of Doom does save the
3D0
version. After Jaguar Doom, and 32x Doom (which was just a port of the
Jag
versions's code) both of which ran at smooth frame rates, it's really
a
jarring blow to see it running so badly on the Saturn. It was an
astoundingly bad port, and it's amazing to me that Sega's QC approved
it.
Doom should not look like a jerkier version of Xybots.
---
Back to the current day.
Now that you bring up the subject of FPS, I'm no expert but I
seriously would say JPN Saturn Doom runs around 15-20 FPS.
Even with several monsters on screen (in most stages) it still runs
pretty decent at about 15-18 FPS.
When you are ALONE and you use the run button, it looks like a smooth
20-25 FPS. No joke.
However, that one stage HELL BENEATH, the frame rate of that stage
suffers badly at about 5 FPS...
Everything else... looks to range from 12-20 FPS given the
circumstances. You said 15-30 is good for a Doom game. Well, perhaps
James had a lucky copy... (which is now mine)... *shrugs shoulders*
All I know is... like James stated... I'm having fun with it.
It seems to move better than US Saturn Hexen. I know cuz I played
that one.
And everyone has said US Doom is EVEN WORSE than US Hexen, so...
BTW I was Kikko. ;)
Mission accomplished. It took many moons later to find out the truth
but I'm happy to say... the JPN version is a pleasant semi-surprise.
(thanks to James for selling his lucky copy to me!)
Joe Ottoson
> Well, believe me or not... I put it to the test.
>
> I set up Doom II on Ultra Violence and came in a room with an
> assortment of zombie soldiers and imps... possibly 10+.
>
> It wasn't THAT jerky. I got through it fine.
Slowdown was never the problem. The fact the game RAN SLOW was.
Joe Ottoson
news:41639b09.0401...@posting.google.com:
> Back to the current day.
>
> Now that you bring up the subject of FPS, I'm no expert but I
> seriously would say JPN Saturn Doom runs around 15-20 FPS.
It runs at 3. 20FPS would look smooth.
> Even with several monsters on screen (in most stages) it still runs
> pretty decent at about 15-18 FPS.
This is not possible.
> When you are ALONE and you use the run button, it looks like a smooth
> 20-25 FPS. No joke.
It's a slideshow. No joke.
> However, that one stage HELL BENEATH, the frame rate of that stage
> suffers badly at about 5 FPS...
2.
> Everything else... looks to range from 12-20 FPS given the
> circumstances.
Nope.
You said 15-30 is good for a Doom game. Well, perhaps
> James had a lucky copy... (which is now mine)... *shrugs shoulders*
BS. There's no reason the Japanese would magically run better.
Joe Ottoson
news:41639b09.04013...@posting.google.com:
> OK I have more info to provide:
>
> According to GameFAQS
>
> Doom GT Interactive 03/31/97 NA
> Doom Soft Bank 07/11/97 JP
>
> See, the JPN version did see a later release, and at this point in
> time I'm inclined to believe that they improved the frame rate enough
> to be playable, sans a level or two.
>
> In reading SEGA Saturn Magazine, Rich Leadbetter wrote this caption
> under a pic of a couple monsters on screen.
>
> "Uh oh... more than 1 monster on screen? Frame rate, come on down!"
>
> (in apparent mock style of Price is Right's Bob Barker)
He may have written that, but it's not the problem. The game runs dirt
slow all the time. The 32X version (which *is* running at 20fps)
outspeeds in it every way.
> In JPN Saturn Doom -- I shit you not... 5 monsters and the frame rate
> doesn't slow down like everyone else has said. IT DOES NOT.
There's no way it could. The game looks like a bad animated .gif as it
is...
> Go ahead, laugh at me and point the liar finger. I'll be having fun
> taking down 2 Baron of Hells with a single shotgun in fine workable
> motion.
Not the liar finger. Just the "you don't know what's supposed to be
wrong" finger.
Etti...@hotmail.com
By the way this morning I beat Ultimate Doom. The last level here was
called Threshold of Pain and after you beat it there's this English
text and an English voice-over reading it. It was pretty neat.
As far as FPS goes, trust me, if it wasn't PLAYABLE I would not have
sat there for 90 minutes enjoying myself as much as I did.
Some levels are a lot worse than others, but for the most part, at
least in Ultimate Doom (haven't fully comitted to Doom II yet but the
few levels I played of that were also OK) the frame rate is playable.
Examples:
-A room of 8 shotgun zombies and 3 cacodemons. I was able to move
fine. Perhaps it slowed down a little, yes, but I still moved without
any real gripes. While I haven't played US Saturn Doom, they say 4 or
so and it's impossible. Well here in JPN Saturn Doom there were 11!
Yet it was fine. Tweaked? You better believe it...
-In the last stage of Ultimate Doom you encounter NINE Hell Knights.
I took them down with ease and without major slowdown.
-I watched the demo play... and it was that one secret stage where
you're being stalked by six Baron of Hell's and about eight
cacodemons. Imagine how surprised I was to see it running just fine!
However, some stages present troubles... like Hell Beneath and CLUB
DOOM, the trippy secret stage featuring techno dance music, blinding
strobe light and revenants inside locked dance cages. These parts in
JPN Doom had the frame rate dip as low as 5 FPS. But once the
monsters are killed it's more managable at around 10-12 FPS.
The other stages, seem to vary from 12-20 FPS given the circumstances.
I will defend this version no more, as I'm satisfied with what I
played, having beaten Ultimate Doom and will store it away until a
future date for when I feel the urge to beat Doom II.
Bottom line... still not the conversion we deserved but APPARENTLY
blows off the pants of the crap US and PAL versions.
James Wilson
so I can't compare them, but the JPN version is most definitely a playable
game, and it's an enjoyable FPS in it's own right. Graphically it can't
compete with the Lobotomy games, but I still had a lot of fun with it.
Bottom line: If you want Doom on the Saturn, better go for the JPN version
=)
--
///////////////////////////////////////////
James Wilson
Email: sa...@thewestexit.net
Web: www.thewestexit.net
ICQ: 18133825
AIM: suede179
MSN: tri...@hotmail.com
///////////////////////////////////////////
<Etti...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41639b09.04013...@posting.google.com...
Etti...@hotmail.com
> > James had a lucky copy... (which is now mine)... *shrugs shoulders*
>
> BS. There's no reason the Japanese would magically run better.
Hmmm, dunno why you're doubting what I have to say so much. After
all, you have never played the JPN version. Why would it magically
run better? Someone obviously tweaked it! It did come out the latest
out of the US and PAL versions.
Well, I thought about packing it away for a while but I said screw
that I wanna play through DooM II. So I now am. On HURT ME PLENTY.
I don't care, you can call me a stupid fucking liar but this is what I
found out playing DOOM II on HURT ME PLENTY
-The classic infamous stage that hosts the room with 2 invincible
spheres, 10 Baron of Hell's and one pissed off CyberDemon... I came
in... moved around fine. How about that for the doubters? 11 f'n
huge sprites. And it wasn't slow.
-Also on the same stage there is a room with about 20 Imps. This too
ran fine.
Believe me, if the JPN version was REALLY THAT BAD (2-5 FPS) I would
be ALL OVER THIS. Yet I am not. Because it does not run at 2-5 FPS.
I'm not faking this to defend JPN Doom for my own perverse glory or
WHATEVER. I'm stating simply what I've discovered in my own
experience.
This game has been a damn FUN trip down memory lane. It has its
moments of slowing down to a crawl (not very often mind you) but the
overall speed is definitely closer to 15-20 FPS than 5-10 FPS.
If you can't believe that... go buy the JPN version and see for
yourself.
It'd only cost you probably.... no more than 15 dollars.
You'll gasp in amazement as 10 Baron of Hells and one CyberDemon move
in a not-so-jerky motion. I know I did! You say slowdown is not the
issue but that it runs slow all the time in general.
Not here. Not here. I can't say any more to back this up. Granted
it slows down in certain places (Hell Beneath and Club Doom) but IN
GENERAL IT RUNS FINE LIKE A FUCKING RIVER.
Well OK not that fine but it's a lot better than the crap 2-5 FPS I
hear of!
Scott H
"Joe Ottoson" <gro...@landfill.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94818A8A67185ja...@130.133.1.4...
Jeez Joe, do you have everything you believe about the Saturn set on some
pedestal that nobody can touch?
Scott H
> put this into a new topic... because quite frankly I was appalled to
> learn about all the bad stuff the Saturn Doom conversion suffered.
> When I first got into Saturn and being the Doom fanatic I was,
> naturally I did some probing about the Saturn conversion and the news
> wasn't good. People blasted the US and PAL versions.
Hmm, sounds like the perfect game to get for a comparison page. I
already have the US version, and it is very bad, doesn't even run above 5FPS
in an empty hallway. How much did James charge you for it, and does he have
another copy?
I'll need the PSX version too.....
RedFox
> > Hey I posted a little about this in my "obscure" thread but thought I
> > put this into a new topic... because quite frankly I was appalled to
> > learn about all the bad stuff the Saturn Doom conversion suffered.
> > When I first got into Saturn and being the Doom fanatic I was,
> > naturally I did some probing about the Saturn conversion and the news
> > wasn't good. People blasted the US and PAL versions.
>
> Hmm, sounds like the perfect game to get for a comparison page. I
> already have the US version, and it is very bad, doesn't even run above
5FPS
> in an empty hallway. How much did James charge you for it, and does he
have
> another copy?
> I'll need the PSX version too.....
I'm not sure that is wise, the FULL SCREEN DITHERING might warp your mind
Etti...@hotmail.com
comparisons -- you are the PERFECT man to rate the Saturn Dooms!
James only has 1 copy I believe (right?) and that one he sold it to me
for 10 dollars.
I had search for JP Doom before I bought James' copy and you know
what, it seems pretty uncommon. So it might be a while before you can
compare it. Hmmm, maybe someone wants to let me "borrow" their US
copy for research. You know, ship the disc only in a small bubble
mailer for 1.29 shipping or whatever, and then after I played it I'll
mail it back.
But yeah, I'm shocked to hear all this "US Doom can barely run at 5
FPS in a bare hallway." Then you should try the JP version as it does
the Doom name a little more justice. Again not the conversion we
deserved but still shockingly fun and good. I've now played more than
half JP Doom and stand by my C+ grade.
BelPowerslave
The PSX version, though the res just looks nasty nowadays, is excellent. I
still wish I could extract the music from it, listen to it on the Mac versions
of Doom...
Though, I will warn you to stay away from PSX Final Doom....ugh...
Bel
--
Whip Ass Gaming: http://users2.ev1.net/~belpowerslave/
"The time has now come...to prove your the best,
to crush your enemies...to win the tournament."
- Announcer, Unreal Tournament
Scott H
<Etti...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41639b09.04020...@posting.google.com...
> Scott, yes! Why didn't I think of this earlier. You and your
> comparisons -- you are the PERFECT man to rate the Saturn Dooms!
>
> James only has 1 copy I believe (right?) and that one he sold it to me
> for 10 dollars.
>
> I had search for JP Doom before I bought James' copy and you know
> what, it seems pretty uncommon. So it might be a while before you can
> compare it. Hmmm, maybe someone wants to let me "borrow" their US
> copy for research. You know, ship the disc only in a small bubble
> mailer for 1.29 shipping or whatever, and then after I played it I'll
> mail it back.
I can mail you my copy for keeps actually, Bel gave it to me and it's just
sitting there. ;)
Scott H
"RedFox" <n...@chance.com> wrote in message
news:bvj5ji$sv1j3$1...@ID-111763.news.uni-berlin.de...
In the PS1 version? I haven't played it with an S-video connection so I
don't know if that's one of the games that uses it. I remember the
framerate being pretty iffy at points.
>
>
Scott H
"BelPowerslave" <belpow...@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:401D596D...@ev1.net...
> Scott H wrote:
>
> > <Etti...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:41639b09.04013...@posting.google.com...
> > > Hey I posted a little about this in my "obscure" thread but thought I
> > > put this into a new topic... because quite frankly I was appalled to
> > > learn about all the bad stuff the Saturn Doom conversion suffered.
> > > When I first got into Saturn and being the Doom fanatic I was,
> > > naturally I did some probing about the Saturn conversion and the news
> > > wasn't good. People blasted the US and PAL versions.
> >
> > Hmm, sounds like the perfect game to get for a comparison page. I
> > already have the US version, and it is very bad, doesn't even run above
5FPS
> > in an empty hallway. How much did James charge you for it, and does he
have
> > another copy?
> > I'll need the PSX version too.....
>
> The PSX version, though the res just looks nasty nowadays, is excellent. I
> still wish I could extract the music from it, listen to it on the Mac
versions
> of Doom...
>
> Though, I will warn you to stay away from PSX Final Doom....ugh...
Final Doom for PS1 might have been the version I owned back in the day, I
could hardly play whichever version it was. Was it out in 1997?
BelPowerslave
>
> Final Doom for PS1 might have been the version I owned back in the day, I
> could hardly play whichever version it was. Was it out in 1997?
>
Final Doom, noone really knows happened....there was no reason it should have
been that much worse than the first...but for some reason or another, it was...
:(
Joe Ottoson
news:41639b09.04013...@posting.google.com:
>> You said 15-30 is good for a Doom game. Well, perhaps
>> > James had a lucky copy... (which is now mine)... *shrugs shoulders*
>>
>> BS. There's no reason the Japanese would magically run better.
>
> Hmmm, dunno why you're doubting what I have to say so much.
It doesn't add up. Saturn Doom came out years late, and was not a big
title in any market. The European and US versions were terribly half-
assed at best, and it doesn't make sense that they'd bother waiting
several months to optimize the Japanese version when by the described
features etc, it's otherwise exactly the same.
After
> all, you have never played the JPN version. Why would it magically
> run better?
Have you directly compared it to the US version?
> Someone obviously tweaked it! It did come out the latest
> out of the US and PAL versions.
Because it was a late port of an ancient game. Hardly a rush needed to
get it to Japan as it is.
No way in hell would I ever waste cash on *any* version of Saturn Doom.
If you want to prove it, make a mpg.
Joe Ottoson
@nwrddc03.gnilink.net:
I beleive that Rage software was staffed solely by incompetant morons.
Saturn Doom was an insult to Saturn owners. It should in no way be
falsely glorified.
Etti...@hotmail.com
I believe the stage is called SUBURBS.
Well, I got a key right, and suddenly a HORDE of baddies come out at
me.
I mowed them all down. It ran fine.
After the slaughter was complete I counted the genocide.
Ready for this?
10 Cacodemons.
5 Mancubus
30 Imps (30! *coughs* carasses included... *coughs*)
And then off on to the acid pool were a few more imp bodies and 2
Revenants.
50 slain sprites on screen, and I was able to move fine. None of this
5 FPS stuff, and that (in the US ver) is in a BARE hallway. Here
there were 50 slain sprites and I moved around at about 15 FPS.
Alright nuff said. *goes back to watching the SuperBowl... so far all
defense*
Barry Waterberg
In terms of resolution and texture qaulity, I remember Final Doom being about
equal to the original PSX Doom, but the framerate was where FD really stumbled
in comparison to the original. If the on-screen geometry was simple, *very*
simple, the engine managed to achieve a smooth 30fps, but in areas where the
geometry was complex, the game turned into a slide-show, like 9fps. Next Gen
had this to say in their review, "In a side by side comparison, Final Doom
didn't even come close to the quality of the original" Despite this, I still
enjoyed FD.
BelPowerslave
> "Though, I will warn you to stay away from PSX Final Doom....ugh..."
>
> In terms of resolution and texture qaulity, I remember Final Doom being about
> equal to the original PSX Doom, but the framerate was where FD really stumbled
> in comparison to the original.
Yep.
> If the on-screen geometry was simple, *very*
> simple, the engine managed to achieve a smooth 30fps, but in areas where the
> geometry was complex, the game turned into a slide-show, like 9fps.
Yeah, it was horrid at times. It was that inconsistancy that lead to me just
dropping it...
> Next Gen
> had this to say in their review, "In a side by side comparison, Final Doom
> didn't even come close to the quality of the original" Despite this, I still
> enjoyed FD.
Thing is, the original Doom on PSX was just very close to perfect...the new
transparencies, the lighting, etc. it was all so very good. The soundtrack was a
masterpiece, rivaled only by Quake's....good times with PSX Doom...I had good
times indeed...
Joe Ottoson
news:41639b09.04020...@posting.google.com:
>
> 50 slain sprites on screen, and I was able to move fine. None of this
> 5 FPS stuff, and that (in the US ver) is in a BARE hallway. Here
> there were 50 slain sprites and I moved around at about 15 FPS.
I can't beleive anyone tolerated US Doom long enough to complain that there
werne't enough enemies. Starting up level 1, and watching it crawl along
well before your first imp appears...
Urk. I got that game free and it still pisses me off.
Scott H
> >> > James had a lucky copy... (which is now mine)... *shrugs shoulders*
> >>
> >> BS. There's no reason the Japanese would magically run better.
> >
> >
> > Jeez Joe, do you have everything you believe about the Saturn set on
> some
> > pedestal that nobody can touch?
>
> I beleive that Rage software was staffed solely by incompetant morons.
> Saturn Doom was an insult to Saturn owners. It should in no way be
> falsely glorified.
Well, no, it should not. But if Kikko is saying Jap Saturn Doom is better,
maybe it is?
Etti...@hotmail.com
Please email me. Thanks.
Joe Ottoson
Hard to swallow when he hasn't seen the US version. Like I said. I'll
only beleive a mpg, mp4 or some moving variant thereof.
Doom should run full framerate on pretty much anything better than a
3D0. It says nothing about the system running a shitty version of Doom
except that the programmers sucked ass.
Scott H
Somebody told me that in order to get the Saturn to do Doom at a good
framerate it'd have to convert everything over to polygonal 3D, like Duke
and Powerslave did, due to something in the way it scales sprites. I can't
remember the specifics, so I might as well not have brought it up at all,
but that would at least explain why Doom sucks so much on Saturn.
Joe Ottoson
Doesn't make a whole lotta sense. Ghen War, Solar Eclipse, Off Road
Interceptor, hell, even Hexxen use a similar rendering method as Doom
does, and all of them managed to not run like total garbage.
Etti...@hotmail.com
Seriously, I haven't had this much fun on Saturn in a while...
I started playing Ultimate Doom I believe last week. Beat that and
was gonna put away the game til I got the urge to play through Doom
II. The urge didn't take long to strike as I was curious if maybe
DOOM II had a worse FPS than Ultimate Doom.
Not really. Like UD, DII only has a few stages where the FPS is bad.
Other than those, it was fine.
I just spent the past 100 minutes wrapping up the final couple levels
on DooM II on HURT ME PLENTY and I must say I haven't enjoyed myself
this much in a video game in a long while.
Some stages are cut a little short (no big deal) while others may have
been revamped slightly. For example, the last level in DooM II instead
of facing a barrage of various enemies and John Romero's mug, you go
down the well and fight about a dozen Baron of Hells and then two
Spider Masterminds.
Overall I give this game a solid 79%. While flawed quite a ways, is
still fun and for me was a great trip down memory lane... with some
new odds and ends here and there. I mean, I found the FPS playable,
the new looking levels interesting, the new enemy roars unique, the
music spine-chilling, the tension exciting and the action intense.
I mean, you get about 60 freaking levels! What a value. For $10 this
has been a great bang-for-my-buck purchase. Thanks James! I probably
will play this through again some time down the road when that Doom
urge strikes. For now I feel like I've conquered it and will move on
to your other games.
;)
I wouldn't even dare to guess how many baddies I've killed since I
started... probably 3,000 plus!
BelPowerslave
> > 3D0. It says nothing about the system running a shitty version of Doom
> > except that the programmers sucked ass.
>
> Somebody told me that in order to get the Saturn to do Doom at a good
> framerate it'd have to convert everything over to polygonal 3D, like Duke
> and Powerslave did, due to something in the way it scales sprites. I can't
> remember the specifics, so I might as well not have brought it up at all,
> but that would at least explain why Doom sucks so much on Saturn.
It was an interview with Lobotomy. What they said was, basically, that the
Saturn was more capable of running a 3D engine like the Slave Driver rather
than a 2D engine like Doom's. After seeing PowerSlave...I kind of agree...;)
http://users2.ev1.net/~belpowerslave/lobotomy.html
or, more specifically:
"GF: PoweSlave’s engine allows for true 3D level design-rooms above
rooms-something with Doom and Hexen did not. How difficult was this to
implement?
ED: A full 3D engine is a better match for the Saturn hardware than a strip
engine like Doom. I don’t think you could make a Doom-style engine that runs
as fast as PowerSlave on the Saturn."
Etti...@hotmail.com
me his US copy of Saturn DooM.
Once I get it and spend some time with it I shall report back.
I am telling y'all right now... based on what you folks have said
about US Doom, it'd be tough to match JP Doom, which does *NOT* run
like, well, to borrow Joe's words, "total garbage."
Expect a report within 3 weeks. I'll clear the air once and for all.
But if what Joe says is true (first stage watch the whole thing CRAWL
before encountering your first imp) I can tell you RIGHT NOW that the
JP version definitely was tweaked. Period.
Scott H
> > good
> > framerate it'd have to convert everything over to polygonal 3D, like
> > Duke and Powerslave did, due to something in the way it scales
> > sprites. I can't remember the specifics, so I might as well not have
> > brought it up at all, but that would at least explain why Doom sucks
> > so much on Saturn.
>
> Doesn't make a whole lotta sense. Ghen War, Solar Eclipse, Off Road
> Interceptor, hell, even Hexxen use a similar rendering method as Doom
> does, and all of them managed to not run like total garbage.
Is Ghen War using that kind of engine? I'd understood it was fully
polygonal, even the enemies, but it's been almost a decade since I've played
it. ;)
Joe Ottoson
> BTW I would like to publicly thank Scott for his kindness in sending
I sincerely hope so. Otherwise you're totally insane. ;)
Joe Ottoson
It might be, but I've never seen that deformable terrain feature in a
fully polygonal Saturn game...
Either way, that game utterly sucked.
Scott H
Heh, I played someting around five levels of it, and I think I'd have to
agree. I've completely passed it up every time I've seen it. ;)
Scott H
<Etti...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41639b09.04020...@posting.google.com...
> BTW I would like to publicly thank Scott for his kindness in sending
> me his US copy of Saturn DooM.
Ack! A positive statement about me?! Well, anyway, I just wanted to let
you know that I plan on sending it to you later today, so you should have it
by weeks end or early next week.
Joe Ottoson
>
> <Etti...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:41639b09.04020...@posting.google.com...
>> BTW I would like to publicly thank Scott for his kindness in sending
>> me his US copy of Saturn DooM.
>
> Ack! A positive statement about me?!
If you sent him Saturn Doom, he'll be cursing you soon enough. ;)
Joe Ottoson
>
> "Joe Ottoson" <gro...@landfill.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9484E752023Bja...@130.133.1.4...
>> "Scott H" <weapo...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:DOMTb.7175$Lj5....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net:
>
>> > Is Ghen War using that kind of engine? I'd understood it was fully
>> > polygonal, even the enemies, but it's been almost a decade since
>> > I've played it. ;)
>>
>> It might be, but I've never seen that deformable terrain feature in a
>> fully polygonal Saturn game...
>>
>> Either way, that game utterly sucked.
>
> Heh, I played someting around five levels of it, and I think I'd have
> to agree. I've completely passed it up every time I've seen it. ;)
It's kinda the game that defines the word "uninspired".