Dreamcast and arcade ports
Matt Seidl
reports from the TGS that are questioning the DC's ability to do perfect
arcade translations. First off, I'm sure that these games are not yet in
their final release form. Second--and I'm sure that I'm basically alone on
this one--I don't really buy system solely on the basis of their ability to
ape their arcade cousins. If you want a pixel perfect game that exactly
recreates the arcade experience then, uh, go to the arcade. You know,
thoses dark buildings, with all the other games, and all the people? Try
it, you might like it.
The reason I buy home systems is to get decent arcade translations--but much
more importantly, I buy them mainly for the many original console titles,
which cover a much broader range of genres than those found at the arcade.
RPGs, sims, strategy, action/adventure, etc. But by the discussion on this
ng, one could easily be led to believe that the Dreamcast was designed
solely to port arcade games. Ports have their place, but let's not forget
all the original titles, OK?
Craig B.
1. The final Dreamcast hardware hasn't been available too long.
2. The Team that is porting VF3 isn't AM2, it's another group.
3. This is still first generation software, look at the first PSX or Saturn
games compared to now...
4. Regardless, VF3 in it's current state still blows away any other
fighting game available on a home console, graphically.
5. I'm sure everything will be near perfect when the time comes.
Matt Seidl <mse...@driveninc.com> wrote in article
<tNnU1.198$8Y6.2...@news.rdc1.mi.home.com>...
David West
Matt Seidl wrote in message ...
>I seems like I'm pretty much alone in not getting discouraged by these
early
>reports from the TGS that are questioning the DC's ability to do perfect
>arcade translations. First off, I'm sure that these games are not yet in
>their final release form. Second--and I'm sure that I'm basically alone on
>this one--I don't really buy system solely on the basis of their ability to
>ape their arcade cousins. If you want a pixel perfect game that exactly
>recreates the arcade experience then, uh, go to the arcade. You know,
>thoses dark buildings, with all the other games, and all the people? Try
>it, you might like it.
>
much
>more importantly, I buy them mainly for the many original console titles,
>which cover a much broader range of genres than those found at the arcade.
>RPGs, sims, strategy, action/adventure, etc. But by the discussion on this
>ng, one could easily be led to believe that the Dreamcast was designed
>solely to port arcade games. Ports have their place, but let's not forget
>all the original titles, OK?
>
I am in no way disturbed by what I'm hearing. I think people are reading a
little too much into this. Most of the reports I've read have been favorable
saying VF3 is nearly identical to its arcade counterpart and who knows what
version was being shown at TGS. As far as SR2 is concerned, people seem to
be worried or writing this system off based on a lousy video that had a
little pop-up and clipping. People, c'mon here... give it a chance, you
haven't even played the game. It's one game, you can't judge the systems
power on *one* game. It may simply be a case of shoddy programming. Remember
Last Bronx and then remember Vf2 on the Saturn and you'll see what I mean.
Don't forget about the games that *are* showcasing the DC's power. Sonic
Adventure is extremely fast, and looks great, we've all seen the videos. I
think Blue Stinger looks great, and even if the game itself isn't great, it
gives me a good idea of what the system can do. Climax Landers and Geist
Force are looking good. These are the type of games I'll be buying the
system for so wether or not the arcade translations are perfect don't mean
that much to me. Even if they aren't exactly perfect I think the differences
will be extremely minor and border on nit-picking.
-David
SR Dominguez
*SUNSET BEACH*GRANDIA*GOLDENEYE 007*
(Memo to myself - none of the above are real)
Simon Rafael Dominguez (u5...@ugd.keele.ac.uk)
I'm a bitch, I'm a tease, I will eat all your Chinese
Joe Ottoson
<mse...@driveninc.com> wrote:
> I seems like I'm pretty much alone in not getting discouraged by these early
> reports from the TGS that are questioning the DC's ability to do perfect
> arcade translations.
Nah, you're not alone, the voices of reason are just being ignored and
overridden by the paranoid majority ;)
First off, I'm sure that these games are not yet in
> their final release form. Second--and I'm sure that I'm basically alone on
> this one--I don't really buy system solely on the basis of their ability to
> ape their arcade cousins. If you want a pixel perfect game that exactly
> recreates the arcade experience then, uh, go to the arcade. You know,
> thoses dark buildings, with all the other games, and all the people? Try
> it, you might like it.
>
In Sega's case, the point will soon become less important as the Naomi
starts to see prominance. Once that happens, arcade perfect will simply be
a fact of life for DC owners for a while.
As for the Model 3 ports, Sega does have one questionable advantage when
they're claiming arcade perfection. Hardly anyone in the US has seen VF3 or
Model 3 games in general thanks to the high price. The average gamer won't
be able to distinguish between Naomi and Model 3 anyway, so the impact of
flawed Model 3 ports if the US really isn't that high (and the Japanese
never really seem to care about arcade perfect games anyway)
Either way, I think it's funny how Sonic Adventure's been glossed over.
Probably one of the biggest and best DC titles to appear, and people are
mum on that while they rant about the pitiful potential of the DC ;)
Raymond McKeithen II
early
>reports from the TGS that are questioning the DC's ability to do perfect
>their final release form. Second--and I'm sure that I'm basically alone on
>this one--I don't really buy system solely on the basis of their ability to
>ape their arcade cousins. If you want a pixel perfect game that exactly
>recreates the arcade experience then, uh, go to the arcade. You know,
>thoses dark buildings, with all the other games, and all the people? Try
>it, you might like it.
>
only own /one/ Model2-to-Saturn conversion (DOA). I'm also one of the few
that never /expected/ perfect Model3 to DC. If (probably /when/) I buy a DC
it'll be for Sonic, Geist Force, Climax Landers, Shienryu 2, Mercurius
Pretty, and other stuff we don't know about yet. I won't buy VF3 or SR2
because I don't like those 2 /arcade/ games, so no matter how good they are,
they're not going to do it for me. If they do make SuperGT and/or Daytona 2,
I /might/ buy those.
>The reason I buy home systems is to get decent arcade translations--but
much
>more importantly, I buy them mainly for the many original console titles,
>which cover a much broader range of genres than those found at the arcade.
>RPGs, sims, strategy, action/adventure, etc. But by the discussion on this
>ng, one could easily be led to believe that the Dreamcast was designed
>solely to port arcade games. Ports have their place, but let's not forget
>all the original titles, OK?
>
Agreed 100%.
remove 2 nospam's for email...
Raymond
Castellan
>a fact of life for DC owners for a while.
>As for the Model 3 ports, Sega does have one questionable advantage when
>they're claiming arcade perfection. Hardly anyone in the US has seen VF3 or
>Model 3 games in general thanks to the high price. The average gamer won't
>be able to distinguish between Naomi and Model 3 anyway, so the impact of
>flawed Model 3 ports if the US really isn't that high (and the Japanese
>never really seem to care about arcade perfect games anyway)
VF1. Saturn. The Saturn had specs nearly *3 times* over superior
to that of the Model 1 board, and look how the port turned out. It makes
the differences between the DC and Model 3 Step 2 version of VF3: TB seem,
well, laughable. And AM2 *themselves* did the port of VF1 to the Saturn!
That's something to think about. Very few arcade ports between
dissimilar hardware configurations have been even CLOSE to perfect.
--- ---
Douglas L. Erickson - ECN Computer Publications and Training Specialist
mail to: dou...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu --- http://www.ecn.ou.edu/~douglas
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--- ECN does not, in any way, sponsor or endorse my rabid opinions. ---
Andrew Ryan Chang
> VF1. Saturn. The Saturn had specs nearly *3 times* over superior
>to that of the Model 1 board, and look how the port turned out. It makes
>the differences between the DC and Model 3 Step 2 version of VF3: TB seem,
>well, laughable. And AM2 *themselves* did the port of VF1 to the Saturn!
I'm 99% sure VF3tb isn't on Step 2 hardware. Plus, VF1 for Saturn
was rushed, right? VF2 for Saturn might well have stressed the system
more, but it looked better than VF1 for Saturn.
> That's something to think about. Very few arcade ports between
>dissimilar hardware configurations have been even CLOSE to perfect.
CPS-II (Capcom) to Saturns with RAM carts?
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Darrius Joiner
settle for 80-90% versions of Model 3 games. But as developers kept giving giving
postives reports of the hardware and Yu Suzuki himself said that the DC hardware
was indeed more powerful than Model 3, and hearing that the DC chipset was more
powerful than intially expected I really got excited. The games, even though not
Model 3 still blow away everything currently in the market place. BUt it's just
the fact that we've been lead to believe that Model 3 translations would pose no
significant problem fro the DC. We keep hearing how easy it is to program on this
machine and how it has virtually enough power to keep developers at bay for good
while. So that's why I was intially diappointed. But those were 'betas' at the
TGS, and they just got the final PowerVR DC chips so we'll see. I'm still pumped
about the DC, I was just hoping that Sega wouldn't insert their foot in thier
mouths. I'm still looking forward to all the titles and Model 3 perfect isn't
important, it's just the fact that many werer lead to believe this was the case.
Joe Ottoson wrote:
> In Sega's case, the point will soon become less important as the Naomi
> starts to see prominance. Once that happens, arcade perfect will simply be
> a fact of life for DC owners for a while.
>
> As for the Model 3 ports, Sega does have one questionable advantage when
> they're claiming arcade perfection. Hardly anyone in the US has seen VF3 or
> Model 3 games in general thanks to the high price. The average gamer won't
> be able to distinguish between Naomi and Model 3 anyway, so the impact of
> flawed Model 3 ports if the US really isn't that high (and the Japanese
> never really seem to care about arcade perfect games anyway)
>
Marty Chinn
: I agree, but also remember that...
: 1. The final Dreamcast hardware hasn't been available too long.
So is it possible they might be rushing things too fast? Remember they
need to play their cards right.
: 2. The Team that is porting VF3 isn't AM2, it's another group.
Could this be a mistake? The conversion is coming off pretty good, but
could it have been better if AM2 did it? Is it possible that Genki could
not port some of the gameplay over correctly? I get a little worried when
a company that didn't do the original is porting over such a complex
fighting engine.
: 3. This is still first generation software, look at the first PSX or Saturn
: games compared to now...
Yes but at the same time, VF3 is only supposed to use about 30% of the
total power of the system.
: 4. Regardless, VF3 in it's current state still blows away any other
: fighting game available on a home console, graphically.
It had better, or Sega would be in REAL trouble.
: 5. I'm sure everything will be near perfect when the time comes.
Things are good as is, there is just room for improvement in the conversion.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marty Chinn ** Tokyo Game Show - Oct. 9 - 11, 1998 **
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Craig B.
Look at how Virtua Racing turned out for the Saturn.
It was fun but it was lacking...
Castellan <douglasBE...@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu> wrote in article
<6vsspm$5i$1...@artemis.backbone.ou.edu>...
> jaot...@hotmail.com (Joe Ottoson) writes:
>
> >a fact of life for DC owners for a while.
>
> >As for the Model 3 ports, Sega does have one questionable advantage when
> >they're claiming arcade perfection. Hardly anyone in the US has seen VF3
or
> >Model 3 games in general thanks to the high price. The average gamer
won't
> >be able to distinguish between Naomi and Model 3 anyway, so the impact
of
> >flawed Model 3 ports if the US really isn't that high (and the Japanese
> >never really seem to care about arcade perfect games anyway)
>
> VF1. Saturn. The Saturn had specs nearly *3 times* over superior
> to that of the Model 1 board, and look how the port turned out. It makes
> the differences between the DC and Model 3 Step 2 version of VF3: TB
seem,
> well, laughable. And AM2 *themselves* did the port of VF1 to the Saturn!
>
> That's something to think about. Very few arcade ports between
> dissimilar hardware configurations have been even CLOSE to perfect.
>
Eric Yap
> VF1. Saturn. The Saturn had specs nearly *3 times* over superior
> to that of the Model 1 board, and look how the port turned out. It makes
> the differences between the DC and Model 3 Step 2 version of VF3: TB seem,
> well, laughable. And AM2 *themselves* did the port of VF1 to the Saturn!
It's also a matter of hardware being suited to do a different job. Model 1
hardware are pure flat shaded poly crunchers. The bunch of Fujitsu
floating point MAC DSPs on the Model 1 boards give an edge over Saturn
when it came to calculating high res, lit flat shaded polys.
If memory serves, the Saturn never came close to recreating the sharp and
smooth (in terms of frame rate) graphics of Model 1 hardware. However, the
Saturn can do a whole bunch of stuff that Model 1 could never do, such as
texture mapping, gouraud shading and the hardware background layers etc.
The same can be said for Model 3 Vs. Dreamcast. Few if any games on
dreamcast will use trilinear/anisotropic filtering whereas it's almost a
given that every Model 3 game will be trilinear filtered. Model 3's
"micro-texturing" also helps out in this area.
Why do developers constantly say that dreamcast is more powerful than
Model 3? Because of features such as bump mapping, hardware modifier
volumes, pixel perfect hardware sorted translucencies, environment
mapping etc. Once developers begin to get to grips with utilizing the
special effects features of the Dreamcast hardware, I think
we'll start to see some really amazing looking stuff.
Remember the statement that "more powerful than model 3" means more than
number of polygons shifted each second.
--
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2 The Limit
how AM2's Saturn VF conversions preserved the gameplay.
On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 05:03:01 GMT, vids...@netcom.com (Marty Chinn)
wrote:
Terrry
RAcer is awesome and still do think so. Genesis version was AWESOME!!!!
TakeoShimizuTakeoShimizuTakeoShimizuTakeoShimizuTakeoShimizuTakeoShimizuTakeoS
"I really am scared of getting old..."
Takeo Shimizu
"Some people come into our lives
and quickly go. Some stay
for awhile, leave footprints on
our hearts and we are never,
ever the same."
Amy Burton
Craig B.
2 The Limit <x2the...@nojunk.com> wrote in article
<36258751.1865837@news-server>...
UGZ 0taku
>to that of the Model 1 board, and look how the port turned out. It makes
>the differences between the DC and Model 3 Step 2 version of VF3: TB seem,
>well, laughable. And AM2 *themselves* did the port of VF1 to the Saturn!
>
>dissimilar hardware configurations have been even CLOSE to perfect.
>
>--- ---
>Douglas L. Erickson - ECN Computer Publications and Training Specialist
>mail to: dou...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu --- http://www.ecn.ou.edu/~douglas
>SegaNet: http://www.seganet.com/ for Sega-related info ICQ#: 12822495
>--- ECN does not, in any way, sponsor or endorse my rabid opinions. ---
>
It doesn't matter...we still didn't get ANY perfect Model 1 ports so it didn't
matter how much more powerful the Saturn is than Model 1. They should have
gotten it at like, Model 2 power or something instead if they weren't gonna
take the time and patience to give us a should-be-easy port of VF1.
-Game Otaku ^_^
Editor-in-Chief
Ultimate Gaming Zero (www.ugzero.com)
We are currently hiring cross-platform writers, writers for our new DC site,
and html programmers! E-mail me for an application at ugz0...@aol.com (that's
a zero, not an 'o').
UGZ 0taku
I agree 99% there. =)
it's just that after all that crap I was SO expecting at least perfect ports.
Now 5 weeks from release I'm hearing all this stuff and it's just hurtin'!
Ian Finnesey
: their final release form. Second--and I'm sure that I'm basically alone on
: this one--I don't really buy system solely on the basis of their ability to
: ape their arcade cousins.
I doubt many people buy a system SOLELY for that reason. Everyone I know
either bought their systems for a game that didn't come out in the arcades
(Grand Theft Auto for my brother and the Playstation, various sports and
wrestling games for almost everone else I know with a playstation,
Castlevania for me and my playstation, Panzer II for me and my saturn
<still haven't got it yet>...and similar situations for SNES and Genesis)
: If you want a pixel perfect game that exactly
: recreates the arcade experience then, uh, go to the arcade. You know,
: thoses dark buildings, with all the other games, and all the people? Try
: it, you might like it.
Hey, genius, not everyone lives near an arcade. At least not with a lot
of recent/expensive machines, and if there ARE any, almost certainly not
ALL the ones they'd want to play.
And even many who DO have one locally probably wouldn't like to go
miles across town to play <insert game here, probably VF3 or SR2...neither
of which exist within 300 miles of me, BTW...in the case of the dreamcast)
And then there's the assholes who practically LIVE at arcades and who will
stomp newbies into the ground at a certain game and rub their noses in it
(rare enough to be tolerable, I suppose), or be assholish whenever someone
is not good enough at whatever game (I'll admit, I think things and say
things quietly out of earshot about people playing Cybersled or Metal Slug
2 <*MY* games>, but never to their face) The lowest form of arcade
life is when you combine those traits with the 10-12 (usually) year old
"got any quarters?" type.
I'll pay 50 bucks for the only game I actually CARE about at an arcade,
which may be out of the way, packed with obnoxious people (that can't be
said about the one at my university...there's a pretty solid unspoken
ettiquette.) in order to avoid the hassle.
: The reason I buy home systems is to get decent arcade translations--but much
: more importantly, I buy them mainly for the many original console titles,
: which cover a much broader range of genres than those found at the arcade.
: RPGs, sims, strategy, action/adventure, etc. But by the discussion on this
I DONT think you're alone in that.
: ng, one could easily be led to believe that the Dreamcast was designed
: solely to port arcade games. Ports have their place, but let's not forget
: all the original titles, OK?
Well, if you consider that the arcade games are the only ones that 99+
percent of the people talking about dreamcast have ever PLAYED, or even
SEEN, it makes a lot of sense that those would be more talked about,
doesn't it?
--
---
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