Rare games--a safe investment
ASWoods
games. I did a little bit of searching on ebay and found out that most of
these games have settled on a fair market price (where quantity demanded
equals quantity supplied). This leads me to claim that any of these rare
and good games would be a safe investment (you wouldn't lose your initial
cash outlay) and in many cases they would be a good investment. However,
the problem lies in the fact that most of these rare games happen to be
good games and they might be hard to part with. For example, I own Panzer
Dragoon Saga and Metal Slug for Saturn, but I doubt I would part with them
at the fair market value ($100 and $60). That's the reason why I would be
reluctant to purchase Radiant Silvergun--It would be a safe investment,
but I doubt I would ever sell it after playing it (assuming the hype is
accurate). The only risk in buying a rare game (besides the chance that
it could be damaged) would be if the game was rereleased (like Shining
Force coming out on Dreamcast). But, I'd imagine that the original would
still hold its value due to the fact that so many people out there collect
"rare" games rather than enjoy them.
I'm not sure what my point is, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on
topics like:
Collecting vs. Playing
What makes a game collectible
Re-releasing games
Alex
nmed
>SNIP
Games are only worth as much as someone will pay for them. You
shouldn't buy games in the hope that someday they may be worth
money...buy them to play them.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Serenity now...Insanity later.
ASWoods
lick of sense.
nmed
>Do me a favor and read the OP--then check to see if what you wrote makes a
>lick of sense.
>
It makes sense. Games should not be viewed as an investment. That's
retarded.
ASWoods
games like radiant silvergun or panzer dragoon saga are a safe
investment--you won't lose your original outlay. That means that if you
buy PDS for $100, you can sell it for $100 a month later. Try selling
shenmue for $50 used next month. DO YOU GET IT NOW? I'm telling people
that spending $100 on a game that you'll be able to resell for $100 is
smarter than spending $50 on a game that won't sell for more than $35 in a
month. So, if you have the means ($100 in disposable income), and you
want to play a rare game--go buy it!!!
On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, nmed wrote:
Jeff Williams
100...@mail2.ats.rochester.edu>,
ASWoods <aw0...@mail.rochester.edu> wrote:
> Do me a favor and read the OP--then check to see if what you wrote
makes a
> lick of sense.
It makes sense to me - you're talking about buying games for the
purpose of watching them go up in value, then selling them. Pretty
goofy if you ask me. I own a few things for the satisfaction of owning
them, but I don't own a single game just for the purpose of watching it
go up in value. That's what stocks are for. Games are for playing.
// Jeff Williams
// ge...@nervhq.org
>
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, nmed wrote:
>
> > ASWoods <aw0...@mail.rochester.edu> wrote:
> >
> > >SNIP
> >
> > Games are only worth as much as someone will pay for them. You
> > shouldn't buy games in the hope that someday they may be worth
> > money...buy them to play them.
> >
> >
> > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
> > Serenity now...Insanity later.
> >
>
>
--
// Jeff Williams
// ge...@nervhq.org
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
RoBearBellie
day but it could turn and bite you in the pocket hard.
Do a search on eBay for a loose copy of Sword Quest: Water World for
Atari 2600. $50 to $100 is the average but it *used* to sell for
$300-$400 a few years ago on eBay.
Tengen Tetris for NES used to sell $150-$200 for a CIB a coupel years
ago. Nowdays I could find one or 2 CIB Tengen Tetris for under $50.
It's like the stock market, you have no way of knowing which way the
price will go and it can easily gop from $100 one day to $1 the next
day.
DO NOT base your price quotation over only a month or 2 of eBay. The
price usually flucates more over the course of months or year rather
than over a few days.
ASWoods
SLACK-JAWED YOKEL)
MY POINT WAS NOT TO DISCUSS BUYING GAMES AND SELLING THEM FOR A
PROFIT! IT WAS TO DISCUSS THE *FACT* THAT BUYING ANY RARE GAME THAT HAS
SETTLED ON A FAIR MARKET PRICE WOULD BE THE SMART THING TO DO BECAUSE NO
MATTER WHAT, YOU COULD ALWAYS SELL IT BACK FOR THAT PRICE. JESUS FUCKING
CHRIST SOME OF YOU PEOPLE ARE THICK!
SIT DOWN, FIND THE ORIGINAL POST, AND REREAD IT.
HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE PLAYED PANZER DRAGOON SAGA? RADIANT SILVERGUN?
IF YOU HAVEN'T, YOU CAN FOR PRACTICALLY FREE! HOW??? READ THE ORIGINAL
FUCKING POST!
IF YOU BUY EITHER OF THESE GAMES FOR $100 ON EBAY, YOU CAN PLAY THEM FOR
AS LONG AS YOU WANT. WHEN YOU'RE FINISHED, YOU CAN SELL THEM BACK FOR
$100. THIS IS A *SAFE* INVESTMENT--ESSENTIALLY YOU GET TO PLAY 2 OF THE
BEST VIDEOGAMES EVER FOR FREE (THE ONLY COST IS TIME SPENT BIDDING,
LISTING, SELLING, SHIPPING, ETC.)
DO YOU UNDERSTAND? DO I HAVE TO DRAW YOU A PICTURE?
CAN SOMEBODY WITH ANY COMMON SENSE BACK ME UP?
ALEX
Doug Jacobs
> OK, learn to read and to understand. The point of my post is that rare
> games like radiant silvergun or panzer dragoon saga are a safe
> investment--you won't lose your original outlay. That means that if you
> buy PDS for $100, you can sell it for $100 a month later. Try selling
> shenmue for $50 used next month. DO YOU GET IT NOW? I'm telling people
> that spending $100 on a game that you'll be able to resell for $100 is
> smarter than spending $50 on a game that won't sell for more than $35 in a
> month. So, if you have the means ($100 in disposable income), and you
> want to play a rare game--go buy it!!!
Ok, tell me, how do you determine which games will become rare/valuable,
and which ones won't?
If I wanted to play a game badly enough, and it was selling for $100,
I'd buy it...so I could PLAY it, not resell it at the same (or higher)
price.
And what if the company decides to rerelease the game (either on the
original platform, or onto a newer platform ala Final Fantasy Anthology)?
Then your so-called "investment" is going to be worth a lot less.
Also, you're saying that I shouldn't buy games that I can't resell at
the same (or more) price, and so I should just skip them until they
become "rare" and more expensive?
Games are not a way to make money. If I get a decent amount of enjoyment
out of a game, then it was a good investment of my time and money. I
haven't profitted economically, but I've enjoyed myself.
Next thing you know, you'll be telling us to only buy movie tickets to
movies or concerts that will sell out so we can make our initial money back
selling the tickets at face value out front.
Alan Kwan
<aw0...@mail.rochester.edu> wrote:
>[...] I would be
>reluctant to purchase Radiant Silvergun--It would be a safe investment,
>but I doubt I would ever sell it after playing it (assuming the hype is
>accurate).
Yeah, don't spend your money for anything that may be enjoyable. Buy
only $hi+ cartoon-license games like Sailor Moon and DragonBall so
that you'll be sure that you want to sell them, and for a good price
to the clueless kids too.
"Live life with Heart." - Alan Kwan / ta...@notmenetvigator.com
http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot (hard-core video game reviews)
Tarot Games Hong Kong: http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot/com
(please remove anti-spam section "notme" from mailing address)
Stephen Preston
>
> (ALL CAPS BECAUSE TALKING TO SOME OF YOU IS LIKE YELLING AT A
> SLACK-JAWED YOKEL)
"Some folk'll never eat a skunk, but then again some folk'll..."
> MY POINT WAS NOT TO DISCUSS BUYING GAMES AND SELLING THEM FOR A
> PROFIT! IT WAS TO DISCUSS THE *FACT* THAT BUYING ANY RARE GAME THAT HAS
> SETTLED ON A FAIR MARKET PRICE WOULD BE THE SMART THING TO DO BECAUSE NO
> MATTER WHAT, YOU COULD ALWAYS SELL IT BACK FOR THAT PRICE. JESUS FUCKING
> CHRIST SOME OF YOU PEOPLE ARE THICK!
Prices change over time. You can't be guaranteed that you could sell it
back for that price. What if you were the only schmuck who was willing
to buy at that price? If Sega releases those games on a compilation
disc, for example, the price suddenly drops drastically.
> SIT DOWN, FIND THE ORIGINAL POST, AND REREAD IT.
>
> HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE PLAYED PANZER DRAGOON SAGA? RADIANT SILVERGUN?
>
> IF YOU HAVEN'T, YOU CAN FOR PRACTICALLY FREE! HOW??? READ THE ORIGINAL
> FUCKING POST!
>
> IF YOU BUY EITHER OF THESE GAMES FOR $100 ON EBAY, YOU CAN PLAY THEM FOR
> AS LONG AS YOU WANT. WHEN YOU'RE FINISHED, YOU CAN SELL THEM BACK FOR
> $100.
Er, I don't think so. Playing them would make them deteriorate in
value... Paging through the manual, scratching up the CD, even just
opening the package if you bought it shrink-wrapped.
> THIS IS A *SAFE* INVESTMENT--ESSENTIALLY YOU GET TO PLAY 2 OF THE
> BEST VIDEOGAMES EVER FOR FREE (THE ONLY COST IS TIME SPENT BIDDING,
> LISTING, SELLING, SHIPPING, ETC.)
>
> DO YOU UNDERSTAND? DO I HAVE TO DRAW YOU A PICTURE?
>
> CAN SOMEBODY WITH ANY COMMON SENSE BACK ME UP?
Your sense is not particularly common as few people seem to share it.
Perhaps that should tell you something.
--Steve
Ted
with some interest in the show; ask some non-fan fighting gamer how good
they are for non Dragonball fans).
Pook!
>
> First of all, thanks for the responses about rare and out of print
> games. I did a little bit of searching on ebay and found out that most of
> these games have settled on a fair market price (where quantity demanded
> equals quantity supplied). This leads me to claim that any of these rare
> and good games would be a safe investment (you wouldn't lose your initial
> cash outlay) and in many cases they would be a good investment.
There is one big, big problem with investing in games that are
supposedly "rare"...
Greatest Hits
Sony's "Greatest Hits" series has seen the reprinting of dozens of their
more popular titles at half or less than half of their original prices.
Especially with a still-active console like the Playstation (since the
PS2 is backwards-compatible) there is always the danger that the video
game company will re-release the title, especially if it's a good one.
There's been the possibility of Final Fantasy Tactics going to Greatest
Hits brought up many times although it hasn't made it yet. And even with
inactive consoles like the Genesis or Super Nintendo, often the best
games for those systems get re-made into games for the newest systems.
If Chrono Trigger PSX had been released in the US, you could bet that
the price would go way down for SNES cartridges of the earlier version.
Lunar for Sega CD was also remade, and while the original is still a
collectable far fewer people really feel the need to get it since it's
readily available for a current console, which would make bidding less
active.
Even with rare import-only games like Sailor Moon, there's always the a
possibility that it'll finally be brought out in an English-language
version and wipe out your investment.
So are rare games a good investment? They could be. But a SAFE one? Not
any moreso than any other investment...maybe even less.
--Pook! ^_^
ASWoods
giving a response that missed my point:
First of all, thanks for the responses about rare and out of print
games. I did a little bit of searching on ebay and found out that most of
these games have settled on a fair market price (where quantity demanded
equals quantity supplied). This leads me to claim that any of these rare
and good games would be a safe investment (you wouldn't lose your initial
cash outlay) and in many cases they would be a good investment. However,
the problem lies in the fact that most of these rare games happen to be
good games and they might be hard to part with. For example, I own Panzer
Dragoon Saga and Metal Slug for Saturn, but I doubt I would part with them
at the fair market value ($100 and $60). That's the reason why I would be
reluctant to purchase Radiant Silvergun--It would be a safe investment,
but I doubt I would ever sell it after playing it (assuming the hype is
accurate). The only risk in buying a rare game (besides the chance that
it could be damaged) would be if the game was re-released (like Shining
Force coming out on Dreamcast). But, I'd imagine that the original would
still hold its value due to the fact that so many people out there collect
"rare" games rather than enjoy them.
Now here's some new thoughts:
For those of you that say prices fluctuate...Ebay has become nearly an
efficient market (a place where the demand and supply curves
intersect). Price fluctuation is generally limited--it may fluctuate for
a number of reasons (changes in people's income, changes in the season,
etc.) However, barring any re-release, any item that is out of production
and in demand will have a pretty steady price.
For those of you that have accused me of (or inferred) that I buy games
simply for profit...I don't. I've never purchased any game without
thorough research on USENET and the web, and I've put a good amount of
time into every game I've purchased. I paid $35 for Panzer Dragoon Saga,
but it would take a huge sum of money to get it from me. This alone would
disprove anyone's accusation that I value money over a good game.
Now, can anyone provide any reasonable argument to disprove my claim that
Panzer Dragoon Saga (or any other out of print rare game), in an efficient
market, barring a re-release or damage to the game as well as any other
macro-environmental factors can be played at no cost save time, ebay
transactions, and trips to the post office?
So, why isn't everyone playing this game? Because most of them lack the
rationality or intelligence to consider this claim.
Ted
everyone who is willing to pay a certain price may be reached, which is
likely to be followed by a drop off in price of the item. This is likely
to be a slow drop off (altho it is possible in a love/hate game to have
an extremely steep drop off from the dedicated fans to the luke warm
people who are willing to give it a try for a lower price), so if this
is a quick turn around in playing the game, the cost will be minimal.
But over an extended period of time, a slow but steady drop off as
various price levels are saturated could lead to a significant drop in
price (other posters have given apparent examples of this, like the
early Tetris release on NES). If you are expecting to enjoy a game for a
few months before reselling, this could become an important
consideration. If you are expecting a very quick turnaround, the costs
you mentioned (more the hassle than the monetary cost) might easily
outweigh the expected value of the game.
(Basically for the efficient market to keep a stable price, there would
have to be a continuous stream of people who valued the game at the same
level; it seems plausible in this market that saturation will occur over
time; Radiant Silvergun has quite a rep and it hasn't reached saturation
as far as I can tell, but, as with the tetris example, it is probable
there will be a saturation of people who value the game at a certain
level and there will then be a decrease in the market value ).
ASWoods wrote:
>
snip
Episcopus
<aw0...@mail.rochester.edu> wrote:
It makes sense now, but I see where the other people are coming from.
I think the confusion comes from the fact that you used the term
"investment". You would have done better explaining your point
clearly in the first place.
Now unfortunately you're the one looking like a flustered 10 year old
because of your lack of composure.
ASWoods
assumptions. Sorry for the caps, I'm having a rough school week...and
it's only monday...
Benjamin
<snerp>
> I'm not sure what my point is, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on
> topics like:
>
> Collecting vs. Playing
I collect games to play and probably spend most of my video game time
seeking out games I want to get to play rather than actually playing
them. You should post in the r.g.v.classics group if you're looking for
people
who buy and collect games solely on the perceived value of the game
rather than choosing based on the actual quality of a title.
You obviously aren't a gamer since you have no contentions on the
quality of the games you want to acquire -- only rarity. As Raymond has
said, you basically have an eBay scalper attitude. If that's your goal,
it doesn't take much to scan the auction listings and see what sells and
what does not. Why you're asking these groups is beyond me. Kinda
disgusting.
> What makes a game collectible
People do. There are _tons_ of truly rare games that no one cares about
simply because no one wants them. I'm thinking specifically of the odd
import title which pops up every now and then that "no one" has heard
of, "no one" will buy, and "no one" will ever see again.
> Re-releasing games
>
> Alex
I avoid re-releases if possible. Companies usually ugly up the
re-released product (why I'll never know) making the collector side of
me favor the original. I just like owning nice stuff over cheap stuff if
at all possible, although it's really not _that_ big of a deal.
Benjamin
nmed
>Goes to show you that most people read the header and make
>assumptions. Sorry for the caps, I'm having a rough school week...and
>it's only monday...
It didn't come from the header. Your argument wasn't exactly clear.
ne...@cadence.com
My biggest problem would be that I'm a hoarder, I'd never be able to
sell them on again... *looks at the growing collection of used saturn
games*
Neil
In article
<Pine.SGI.4.21.0012111...@mail2.ats.rochester.edu>,
terrell gibbs
<pre...@math.sunysb.edu> wrote:
>> IF YOU BUY EITHER OF THESE GAMES FOR $100 ON EBAY, YOU CAN PLAY THEM FOR
>> AS LONG AS YOU WANT. WHEN YOU'RE FINISHED, YOU CAN SELL THEM BACK FOR
>> $100.
>
>Er, I don't think so. Playing them would make them deteriorate in
>value... Paging through the manual, scratching up the CD, even just
>opening the package if you bought it shrink-wrapped.
Sale prices on EBay generally reflect the expectation of a modest amount of use.
Paging carefully through the manual, and handling the CD with care should not
noticeably decrease its condition.
ASWoods
> ASWoods wrote:
>
> <snerp>
>
> > I'm not sure what my point is, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on
> > topics like:
> >
> > Collecting vs. Playing
>
> I collect games to play and probably spend most of my video game time
> seeking out games I want to get to play rather than actually playing
> them. You should post in the r.g.v.classics group if you're looking for
> people
> who buy and collect games solely on the perceived value of the game
> rather than choosing based on the actual quality of a title.
What does this make you then? I wouldn't call you a gamer, I'd call you a
collector who's too obsessed with building his collection to even enjoy
it...pretty disgusting really.
>
> You obviously aren't a gamer since you have no contentions on the
> quality of the games you want to acquire -- only rarity. As Raymond has
> said, you basically have an eBay scalper attitude. If that's your goal,
> it doesn't take much to scan the auction listings and see what sells and
> what does not. Why you're asking these groups is beyond me. Kinda
> disgusting.
Read everthing that has been posted by me on this subject. My point was
to determine the efficiency of the market and whether or not purchasing
games that meet certain criteria (rarity, low print run, exceptional
quality) can be played by any gamer with the means for practically
free. They can.
I'm not talking about games like tengen tetris which isn't even as good as
nintendo's release. I'm talking about games like:
Burning Rangers
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Final Fantasy Tactics
Chrono Trigger
Radiant Silvergun
Metal Slug
Guilty Gear
These games meet the criteria listed above. Any of these games could be
purchased on ebay, played, and resold for approximately the original price
paid barring any re-release, damage, or other macro-environmental
factors. Why doesn't everyone buy them? 2 reasons...1) People like me
who enjoy great games would not be able to sell them 2) Most people make
purchasing decisions considering price only. But, I'm an economist, and I
don't expect most of you to understand my point or make rational
decisions. It's our curse.
> > > What makes a game collectible >
> People do. There are _tons_ of truly rare games that no one cares about
> simply because no one wants them. I'm thinking specifically of the odd
> import title which pops up every now and then that "no one" has heard
> of, "no one" will buy, and "no one" will ever see again.
>
Then, obviously this game wouldn't meet the criteria--I don't give a fuck
about it.
> > Re-releasing games
> >
>
> I avoid re-releases if possible. Companies usually ugly up the
> re-released product (why I'll never know) making the collector side of
> me favor the original. I just like owning nice stuff over cheap stuff if
> at all possible, although it's really not _that_ big of a deal.
>
> Benjamin
>
By the way, here's a list of my games--you tell me if I'm a gamer or
not...
Saturn
Dungeons and Dragons Collection
Guardian Heroes
Megaman X4
Metal Slug
Capcom Generations 5
Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter
Night Warriors: Darkstalkers Revenge
Pocket Fighter
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Vampire Savior
X-men vs. Street Fighter
Street Fighter Collection
Cotton Boomerang
Galactic Attack
Die Hard Arcade
Virtual On
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
House of the Dead
Virtua Cop
Virtua Cop 2
Sonic Jam
Baku Baku
Sega Rally Championship
Sonic R
Grandia
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Magic Knight Rayearth
Dragon Force
Steep Slope Sliders
Burning Rangers
Nights into Dreams
Decathlete
Winter Heat
World Series Baseball '98
Dreamcast
Jojo's Bizzare Adventure
Marvel vs. Capcom
Marvel vs. Capcom 2
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Capcom vs. SNK
Zombie Revenge
Dead or Alive 2
Mortal Kombat Gold
Power Stone 2
Soul Calibur
Ultimate Fighting Championship
Ecco the Dolphin
MDK 2
Samba De Amigo
House of the Dead 2
Virtual On: Oratorio Tangram
Jet Set Radio
Chu Chu Rocket
Ferrari F355 Challenge
Sega Rally 2
Test Drive: Le Mans
Crazy Taxi
Skies of Arcadia
Space Channel 5
Virtua Tennis
I haven't catalogued the rest of my games, but I have many for the
following systems:
NES
Sega Master
SNES
Genesis
PSX
Saturn
N64
Dreamcast
NGPC
Yeah, I'm not a gamer...
If I wasn't a gamer I'd own Tomb Raider Chronicles or a PS2...
ASWoods
ne...@cadence.com
the moment, what do you think it's price level should be?
In article
<Pine.SGI.4.21.0012121...@mail2.ats.rochester.edu>,
ASWoods
RPG
Alex
Brian Langenberger
GoldenEye and Banjo-Kazooie will be the best investments possible ;)
(with apologies to the r.g.v.nintendo folks)
Benjamin
Psst... No need to e-mail something you post. Just reply to newsgroups.
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Benjamin wrote:
>
> > ASWoods wrote:
> >
> > <snerp>
> >
> > > I'm not sure what my point is, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on
> > > topics like:
> > >
> > > Collecting vs. Playing
> >
> > I collect games to play and probably spend most of my video game time
> > seeking out games I want to get to play rather than actually playing
> > them. You should post in the r.g.v.classics group if you're looking for
> > people
> > who buy and collect games solely on the perceived value of the game
> > rather than choosing based on the actual quality of a title.
>
> What does this make you then? I wouldn't call you a gamer, I'd call you a
> collector who's too obsessed with building his collection to even enjoy
> it...pretty disgusting really.
No, you aren't comprehending what I said. I play _a lot_, but quite a
bit of time is spent looking for games I've long sought after to play.
It's no obsession. People look for things they want, and there's nothing
disgusting about that.
> > You obviously aren't a gamer since you have no contentions on the
> > quality of the games you want to acquire -- only rarity. As Raymond has
> > said, you basically have an eBay scalper attitude. If that's your goal,
> > it doesn't take much to scan the auction listings and see what sells and
> > what does not. Why you're asking these groups is beyond me. Kinda
> > disgusting.
>
> Read everthing that has been posted by me on this subject. My point was
> to determine the efficiency of the market and whether or not purchasing
> games that meet certain criteria (rarity, low print run, exceptional
> quality) can be played by any gamer with the means for practically
> free. They can.
>
> I'm not talking about games like tengen tetris which isn't even as good as
> nintendo's release. I'm talking about games like:
Actually, Tengen's Tetris _is_ better than Nintendo's effort -- it's the
only one with a 2-player versus game.
> Burning Rangers
> Panzer Dragoon Saga
> Final Fantasy Tactics
> Chrono Trigger
> Radiant Silvergun
> Metal Slug
> Guilty Gear
>
> These games meet the criteria listed above. Any of these games could be
> purchased on ebay, played, and resold for approximately the original price
> paid barring any re-release, damage, or other macro-environmental
> factors. Why doesn't everyone buy them? 2 reasons...1) People like me
> who enjoy great games would not be able to sell them 2) Most people make
> purchasing decisions considering price only. But, I'm an economist, and I
> don't expect most of you to understand my point or make rational
> decisions. It's our curse.
Accountants have no place in gaming. :^) _Lots_ of so-called rare games
are utter crap. If you're only limiting yourself to those games which
you can resell and not lose any/much money over, well, then, fine. I
think that's the wrong way to go about things.
> > > > What makes a game collectible >
> > People do. There are _tons_ of truly rare games that no one cares about
> > simply because no one wants them. I'm thinking specifically of the odd
> > import title which pops up every now and then that "no one" has heard
> > of, "no one" will buy, and "no one" will ever see again.
> >
>
> Then, obviously this game wouldn't meet the criteria--I don't give a fuck
> about it.
But what if it's more fun and enjoyable than the games you're seeking
for their status? You can't bring economics into recreation or you'll
never really be able to enjoy it for what it is.
hehe Well, I think your outlook is poor. You've obviously purchased
games without thought of how feasible it is on your money account
despite your propensity for making economic "rational decisions," so why
the apparent sudden change of outlook? If you were _really_ that frugal
of an economist, you'd never see a movie, go to a concert, etc. What's
more important to you -- hours upon hours of enjoyment or a slight
monetary loss?
Benjamin
ASWoods
> ASWoods wrote:
>
> Psst... No need to e-mail something you post. Just reply to newsgroups.
Sorry, hit B instead of F
>
> > On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Benjamin wrote:
> >
> > > ASWoods wrote:
> > >
> > > <snerp>
> > >
> > > > I'm not sure what my point is, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on
> > > > topics like:
> > > >
> > > > Collecting vs. Playing
> > >
> > > I collect games to play and probably spend most of my video game time
> > > seeking out games I want to get to play rather than actually playing
> > > them. You should post in the r.g.v.classics group if you're looking for
> > > people
> > > who buy and collect games solely on the perceived value of the game
> > > rather than choosing based on the actual quality of a title.
> >
> > What does this make you then? I wouldn't call you a gamer, I'd call you a
> > collector who's too obsessed with building his collection to even enjoy
> > it...pretty disgusting really.
>
> No, you aren't comprehending what I said. I play _a lot_, but quite a
> bit of time is spent looking for games I've long sought after to play.
> It's no obsession. People look for things they want, and there's nothing
> disgusting about that.
>
You *said* above that most of your time was spent seeking them...the
disgusting comment was me being defensive because of your remarks below.
> > > You obviously aren't a gamer since you have no contentions on the
> > > quality of the games you want to acquire -- only rarity. As Raymond has
> > > said, you basically have an eBay scalper attitude. If that's your goal,
> > > it doesn't take much to scan the auction listings and see what sells and
> > > what does not. Why you're asking these groups is beyond me. Kinda
> > > disgusting.
> >
> > Read everthing that has been posted by me on this subject. My point was
> > to determine the efficiency of the market and whether or not purchasing
> > games that meet certain criteria (rarity, low print run, exceptional
> > quality) can be played by any gamer with the means for practically
> > free. They can.
> >
> > I'm not talking about games like tengen tetris which isn't even as good as
> > nintendo's release. I'm talking about games like:
>
> Actually, Tengen's Tetris _is_ better than Nintendo's effort -- it's the
> only one with a 2-player versus game.
>
However, multiplayer tetris is available on a number of
systems--eliminating the novelty of tengen's tetris
> > Burning Rangers
> > Panzer Dragoon Saga
> > Final Fantasy Tactics
> > Chrono Trigger
> > Radiant Silvergun
> > Metal Slug
> > Guilty Gear
> >
> > These games meet the criteria listed above. Any of these games could be
> > purchased on ebay, played, and resold for approximately the original price
> > paid barring any re-release, damage, or other macro-environmental
> > factors. Why doesn't everyone buy them? 2 reasons...1) People like me
> > who enjoy great games would not be able to sell them 2) Most people make
> > purchasing decisions considering price only. But, I'm an economist, and I
> > don't expect most of you to understand my point or make rational
> > decisions. It's our curse.
>
> Accountants have no place in gaming. :^) _Lots_ of so-called rare games
> are utter crap. If you're only limiting yourself to those games which
> you can resell and not lose any/much money over, well, then, fine. I
> think that's the wrong way to go about things.
That's not what I said. The only limits I place on gaming have to do
with the quality of the title. I'm trying to tell folks who want to play
certain games but are reluctant to spend $100 on them should reconsider
and just buy them. They will be able to resell them for a price similar
to what they paid.
>
> > > > > What makes a game collectible >
> > > People do. There are _tons_ of truly rare games that no one cares about
> > > simply because no one wants them. I'm thinking specifically of the odd
> > > import title which pops up every now and then that "no one" has heard
> > > of, "no one" will buy, and "no one" will ever see again.
> > >
> >
> > Then, obviously this game wouldn't meet the criteria--I don't give a fuck
> > about it.
>
> But what if it's more fun and enjoyable than the games you're seeking
> for their status? You can't bring economics into recreation or you'll
> never really be able to enjoy it for what it is.
Again, that was never my point. My OP was talking about a very select
group of games that are rare, have low print runs, and are of
exceptionally high quality. Spending $50 on a game has never been a
problem if it's a quality title. Spending $100 on a game that is
fantastic and able to maintain its value is a very rational thing to do.
Economics applies to everything. I've always thought a novel idea in a
utopia would be to price everything on perceived quality and value. A
game like Metal Gear Solid would cost $100 while the newest south park
game would cost $5.
Money has nothing to do with it. Value is everything. I am that frugal
of an economist--that's why my money doesn't go towards crap (or at least
what I perceive as crap). That's why I go to Pearl Jam and RHCP concerts
rather than Eminem or N'Sync concerts. That's why I'd see the Matrix 3
times in the theater but totally skip Dungeons and Dragons. That's why I
own a dreamcast and not a playstation 2. Get it now?
>
> Benjamin
>
>
Neil McIntyre
purchase that you don't think about reselling without using first. Even
then it's more to offset the purchase of newer hardware or software, not to
make money.
--
Neil
Nintendo Legacy > http://www.nintendolegacy.com
"Doug Jacobs" <dja...@tsoft.com> wrote in message
news:t3at8f8...@corp.supernews.com...
Neil McIntyre
--
Neil
Nintendo Legacy > http://www.nintendolegacy.com
"Stephen Preston" <pre...@math.sunysb.edu> wrote in message
news:3A357729...@math.sunysb.edu...
minmay
games as an investment.
games are just that, gamers. we don't save and invest money on games we
don't like, let alone invest on it. go out and invest on life.
dumb ass
-min
"ASWoods" <aw0...@mail.rochester.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.SGI.4.21.0012111...@mail2.ats.rochester.edu...
> OK, learn to read and to understand. The point of my post is that rare
> games like radiant silvergun or panzer dragoon saga are a safe
> investment--you won't lose your original outlay. That means that if you
> buy PDS for $100, you can sell it for $100 a month later. Try selling
> shenmue for $50 used next month. DO YOU GET IT NOW? I'm telling people
> that spending $100 on a game that you'll be able to resell for $100 is
> smarter than spending $50 on a game that won't sell for more than $35 in a
> month. So, if you have the means ($100 in disposable income), and you
> want to play a rare game--go buy it!!!
>
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, nmed wrote:
>
> > ASWoods <aw0...@mail.rochester.edu> wrote:
> >
> > >Do me a favor and read the OP--then check to see if what you wrote
makes a
> > >lick of sense.
> > >
> >
> > It makes sense. Games should not be viewed as an investment. That's
> > retarded.
ASWoods
I'm saving this one...
The Good Guy
> OK, learn to read and to understand. The point of my post is that rare
> games like radiant silvergun or panzer dragoon saga are a safe
> investment--you won't lose your original outlay. That means that if you
> buy PDS for $100, you can sell it for $100 a month later. Try selling
> shenmue for $50 used next month. DO YOU GET IT NOW? I'm telling people
> that spending $100 on a game that you'll be able to resell for $100 is
> smarter than spending $50 on a game that won't sell for more than $35 in a
> month. So, if you have the means ($100 in disposable income), and you
> want to play a rare game--go buy it!!!
you're a moron, you should buy a game because you want to play it, not because it
will retain its market value a few month later on...
The Good Guy
because they're too common to go up in value in the future, and from the
looks of it you've also missed out on great games that went up in value like
FF3 and Chrono Trigger because you didn't buy them back then because they
weren't popular...
ASWoods wrote:
> (ALL CAPS BECAUSE TALKING TO SOME OF YOU IS LIKE YELLING AT A
> SLACK-JAWED YOKEL)
>
> MY POINT WAS NOT TO DISCUSS BUYING GAMES AND SELLING THEM FOR A
> PROFIT! IT WAS TO DISCUSS THE *FACT* THAT BUYING ANY RARE GAME THAT HAS
> SETTLED ON A FAIR MARKET PRICE WOULD BE THE SMART THING TO DO BECAUSE NO
> MATTER WHAT, YOU COULD ALWAYS SELL IT BACK FOR THAT PRICE. JESUS FUCKING
> CHRIST SOME OF YOU PEOPLE ARE THICK!
>
> SIT DOWN, FIND THE ORIGINAL POST, AND REREAD IT.
>
> HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE PLAYED PANZER DRAGOON SAGA? RADIANT SILVERGUN?
>
> IF YOU HAVEN'T, YOU CAN FOR PRACTICALLY FREE! HOW??? READ THE ORIGINAL
> FUCKING POST!
>
> IF YOU BUY EITHER OF THESE GAMES FOR $100 ON EBAY, YOU CAN PLAY THEM FOR
> AS LONG AS YOU WANT. WHEN YOU'RE FINISHED, YOU CAN SELL THEM BACK FOR
> $100. THIS IS A *SAFE* INVESTMENT--ESSENTIALLY YOU GET TO PLAY 2 OF THE
The Good Guy
> Now, can anyone provide any reasonable argument to disprove my claim that
> Panzer Dragoon Saga (or any other out of print rare game), in an efficient
> market, barring a re-release or damage to the game as well as any other
> macro-environmental factors can be played at no cost save time, ebay
> transactions, and trips to the post office?
who cares? if a game is good I keep it, if it becomes rare, even better, in
the end it wouldn't matter because I rather keep good games than sell them...
> So, why isn't everyone playing this game? Because most of them lack the
> rationality or intelligence to consider this claim.
no its because most people here are gamers that just want to enjoy a good game
even if its on the DC, you're just a vulture who's more interested in the
value of a game than the actual game itself...
The Good Guy
> > > I'm not talking about games like tengen tetris which isn't even as good as
> > > nintendo's release. I'm talking about games like:
> >
> > Actually, Tengen's Tetris _is_ better than Nintendo's effort -- it's the
> > only one with a 2-player versus game.
> >
>
> However, multiplayer tetris is available on a number of
> systems--eliminating the novelty of tengen's tetris
um, the issue here is that you said Nintendo version is better, very few people
who played both Tengen's version and Nintendo's version would agree with you and
its just more evidence that you don't play the games you collect
> That's not what I said. The only limits I place on gaming have to do
> with the quality of the title. I'm trying to tell folks who want to play
> certain games but are reluctant to spend $100 on them should reconsider
> and just buy them. They will be able to resell them for a price similar
> to what they paid.
there is absolutely no guarantee that you will be able to resell your games for a
similar price that you paid for, furthermore your whole rational goes out the
window if the game you bought was originally brand new...
> Again, that was never my point. My OP was talking about a very select
> group of games that are rare, have low print runs, and are of
> exceptionally high quality. Spending $50 on a game has never been a
> problem if it's a quality title. Spending $100 on a game that is
> fantastic and able to maintain its value is a very rational thing to do.
> Economics applies to everything. I've always thought a novel idea in a
> utopia would be to price everything on perceived quality and value. A
> game like Metal Gear Solid would cost $100 while the newest south park
> game would cost $5.
N64 Bangioh only had 10,000 copies made, it must really piss you off the
re-released on the DC will bring down its value...
> Money has nothing to do with it. Value is everything. I am that frugal
> of an economist--that's why my money doesn't go towards crap (or at least
> what I perceive as crap). That's why I go to Pearl Jam and RHCP concerts
> rather than Eminem or N'Sync concerts. That's why I'd see the Matrix 3
> times in the theater but totally skip Dungeons and Dragons. That's why I
> own a dreamcast and not a playstation 2. Get it now?
yeah, you like crap...
@shidoshi
<benj...@platformer.com> wrote:
> You obviously aren't a gamer since you have no contentions on the
> quality of the games you want to acquire -- only rarity. As Raymond has
> said, you basically have an eBay scalper attitude.
Now, hold on a second - unless I've missed some major comments from this
guy, I don't think it is fair to start pointing fingers and calling names.
I'm a gamer, yet I also DO indeed buy games for the "collection aspect. A
number of the US Saturn games that I have, many of the harder to find
games, I have simply to have them. I was trying to see how much of a US
Saturn collection I could get which included the big named, harder to find
games in it, until I finally decided just not to try anymore. I purchased
games such as Shining the Holy Ark, US SF2 collection, stuff like that,
and have never even taken the booklet out to look at it, let alone played
the game. I also picked up a number of the English language-version
hardcase NeoGeo Pocket Color games simply because there would be so few
copies of each made. I've popped in and tried out at least every one of
these games once or twice, but many now just sit in my collection.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to know what games are rare, and going
out to pick them up because they are so. People have collections, and if
you want to collect games, so be it. No one dogs on people who collect
stamps and never use them, so why do the same for video games. If a
person' s idea is JUST to find copies of the rare games, and then turn
around and re-sell them for a profit, that I do have a problem with. But
while most of the games I have I have because I play, I fully admit about
1/4th of them (or possibly more) I have just to have.
Let's bring up another example - the people who go out and spend $70, $80,
$100+ on Japanese Limited Edition releases and don't touch them. Video
Game Depot had a PERFECT quote about this, which of course I went to get
and is now gone. It was for the Love Hina LE I believe, and read to this
effect: "Regular shipping only for this item, unless you REALLY want to
pay extra to get it on your shelf and never touch it again faster." =^)
Same kind of thing going on here as the people who buy games for their
rarity, I'd say.
.............
@shidoshi
http://relief-goddess.org
Silent Hill 2 - 08:Months / ??:Days
Things said about Shidoshi:
"You're crossing that line from normal, everyday villainy to cartoonish
super-villainy." -the Well-Suited Punk
"I rather be an idiot than the fag that you are, ooh the PSOne is
soooocuuuute...barf..." - internet troll
"Ryo Shidoshi, Defender of Kittens, Villainy, and Flowerpots everywhere."
- Charles Doane
Doug Jacobs
> you would be the retarded investment of the year if you ever thought to have
> games as an investment.
Folks say the same thing about Magic The Gathering cards, Pokemon, Beanie
Babies, Baseball Cards, and anything else you can imagine as "collectable".
Essentially what happens is you end up with folks who collect for its own
sake (ie. collectors), and the folks who "collect" so they can profit from
the first group (ie. dealers.)
I've met too many folks from the dealer group who really don't care about
whatever it is they're peddling, only that they can clear a profit from
selling it.
Doug Jacobs
> Sale prices on EBay generally reflect the expectation of a modest amount of use.
> Paging carefully through the manual, and handling the CD with care should not
> noticeably decrease its condition.
But even then, it's "MCRFB"[1] at best, as opposed to "NRFB"[1] :)
To many collectors, there is a difference...
[1] What...you've never watched Dexter's Laboratory?!?
Adam Pawlus
> OK, learn to read and to understand. The point of my post is that rare
> games like radiant silvergun or panzer dragoon saga are a safe
> investment--you won't lose your original outlay. That means that if you
> buy PDS for $100, you can sell it for $100 a month later.
Not necessarily. If you watch ebay, prices for rare games (especially
the Saturn imports I've been watching for a while now) fluctuate quite a
bit. One week, Salamander Deluxe Pack may top $100. Another, maybe
only $30. While ebay is not the bible of secondary market games, it
isn't a bad indicator.
While a complete package of a rare game is a big deal to some
collectors, a copy is just as good to many others. Pirated games,
rereleases, and emulators take a good sized chunk out of the market for
secondary market games. I still buy old NES carts and play them.
Judging from people I know, I may be the exception, not the rule.
To take aim at your example of PDS, well, the Saturn is not 100% dead
yet. That whole Majesco rerelease thing is still out there (it might
not happen, but hell, it's a good example.) Should the Saturn get a
little relaunch and software rereleased cheap... well... if PDS shows up
again, it could be $20 or $30. While I do prefer original packaging to
a copy, $80 can make me change my mind real quick.
And retro... well, those cart-only (sans box, manual) FF3s seemed to get
kinda cheap around the FF Anthology launch.
(And for the record, I do consider myself just as much of a game
collector as I do a gamer.)
>Try selling
> shenmue for $50 used next month. DO YOU GET IT NOW? I'm telling people
> that spending $100 on a game that you'll be able to resell for $100 is
> smarter than spending $50 on a game that won't sell for more than $35 in a
> month. So, if you have the means ($100 in disposable income), and you
> want to play a rare game--go buy it!!!
But with this train of thought, you miss the point of a hobby. It's
something you do because you enjoy it-- losing money isn't something you
typically worry about when spending your hard-earned dough on something
meant to bring you amusement.
There is no guaranteed market for *ANY* remotely collectible franchise.
Five years ago, the new Star Wars figures were the hottest thing in the
world... people were stashing away sets (plural) because they were a
sure-fire investment, and only $5. Today, those figures are often
tough to sell for $2, or less.
(Plus an investment with a 0% return and a 0% loss isn't exactly an
*investment* as such...)
--Adam
visit...
http://www.rebelscum.com
http://www.16bit.com
Benjamin
>
> In article <3A37171D...@platformer.com>, Benjamin
> <benj...@platformer.com> wrote:
>
> > You obviously aren't a gamer since you have no contentions on the
> > quality of the games you want to acquire -- only rarity. As Raymond has
> > said, you basically have an eBay scalper attitude.
>
> Now, hold on a second - unless I've missed some major comments from this
> guy, I don't think it is fair to start pointing fingers and calling names.
> I'm a gamer, yet I also DO indeed buy games for the "collection aspect. A
> number of the US Saturn games that I have, many of the harder to find
> games, I have simply to have them. I was trying to see how much of a US
> Saturn collection I could get which included the big named, harder to find
> games in it, until I finally decided just not to try anymore. I purchased
> games such as Shining the Holy Ark, US SF2 collection, stuff like that,
> and have never even taken the booklet out to look at it, let alone played
> the game. I also picked up a number of the English language-version
> hardcase NeoGeo Pocket Color games simply because there would be so few
> copies of each made. I've popped in and tried out at least every one of
> these games once or twice, but many now just sit in my collection.
I don't like that practice. It'd not really bad in any way, but all I
see is one less copy of a game available to those who genuinely want to
play the game. Sitting on games reduces supply which unnecessarily
increases perceived value.
> There's nothing wrong with wanting to know what games are rare, and going
> out to pick them up because they are so. People have collections, and if
> you want to collect games, so be it. No one dogs on people who collect
> stamps and never use them, so why do the same for video games. If a
> person' s idea is JUST to find copies of the rare games, and then turn
> around and re-sell them for a profit, that I do have a problem with. But
> while most of the games I have I have because I play, I fully admit about
> 1/4th of them (or possibly more) I have just to have.
Apples and oranges. Using a stamp destroys the stamp whereas video games
are meant to be played. Also, if someone likes the design of an
unavailable stamp, there are plenty of books out there which figures a
facsimile of the stamp design. If someone wants a game that is no longer
available, the person is out of luck without resorting to piracy.
> Let's bring up another example - the people who go out and spend $70, $80,
> $100+ on Japanese Limited Edition releases and don't touch them. Video
> Game Depot had a PERFECT quote about this, which of course I went to get
> and is now gone. It was for the Love Hina LE I believe, and read to this
> effect: "Regular shipping only for this item, unless you REALLY want to
> pay extra to get it on your shelf and never touch it again faster." =^)
> Same kind of thing going on here as the people who buy games for their
> rarity, I'd say.
>
> .............
> @shidoshi
I understand the way of thinking, but I don't think it's good for the
hobby. If I won a backstage pass to a Jewel concert, would you rather I
make it available to you or just sit on it in a scrapbook of things I've
won? :^) That's my outlook on the whole thing.
Benjamin
Benjamin
>
> On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Benjamin wrote:
>
> > ASWoods wrote:
> >
> > Psst... No need to e-mail something you post. Just reply to newsgroups.
>
> Sorry, hit B instead of F
No biggie.
<snerp>
> > > > I collect games to play and probably spend most of my video game time
> > > > seeking out games I want to get to play rather than actually playing
> > > > them. You should post in the r.g.v.classics group if you're looking for
> > > > people
> > > > who buy and collect games solely on the perceived value of the game
> > > > rather than choosing based on the actual quality of a title.
> > >
> > > What does this make you then? I wouldn't call you a gamer, I'd call you a
> > > collector who's too obsessed with building his collection to even enjoy
> > > it...pretty disgusting really.
> >
> > No, you aren't comprehending what I said. I play _a lot_, but quite a
> > bit of time is spent looking for games I've long sought after to play.
> > It's no obsession. People look for things they want, and there's nothing
> > disgusting about that.
> >
>
> You *said* above that most of your time was spent seeking them...the
> disgusting comment was me being defensive because of your remarks below.
The difference is I spend time seeking things I ultimately will play and
play what I have in the meantime. Looking for things which will serve
(as I has at least interpreted your thinking) no real purpose and taking
them away from those who would make use of them is what disgusted me.
It's not Nazi hate disgust. :^) Just kinda annoys me.
Also, while I do spend quite a bit of time looking for games, that's not
all I'm doing while searching. That is, while checking Internet game
stores I'll be doing other work on the computer, whereas actually
playing a game demands full attention.
<snerp>
> > > I'm not talking about games like tengen tetris which isn't even as good as
> > > nintendo's release. I'm talking about games like:
> >
> > Actually, Tengen's Tetris _is_ better than Nintendo's effort -- it's the
> > only one with a 2-player versus game.
> >
>
> However, multiplayer tetris is available on a number of
> systems--eliminating the novelty of tengen's tetris
You were comparing the two NES versions. Of those two, the Tengen
version is better.
<snerp>
> > Accountants have no place in gaming. :^) _Lots_ of so-called rare games
> > are utter crap. If you're only limiting yourself to those games which
> > you can resell and not lose any/much money over, well, then, fine. I
> > think that's the wrong way to go about things.
>
> That's not what I said. The only limits I place on gaming have to do
> with the quality of the title. I'm trying to tell folks who want to play
> certain games but are reluctant to spend $100 on them should reconsider
> and just buy them. They will be able to resell them for a price similar
> to what they paid.
That's true, and I've thought like that in the past. I bought Can Can
Bunny knowing that it would more or less amount to a free rental. That
way I could see if I like it -- if I did, keep it; if I don't, resell at
minimal loss. Needless to say I sold the garbage heap the day after
receiving it.
<snerp>
> I've always thought a novel idea in a
> utopia would be to price everything on perceived quality and value. A
> game like Metal Gear Solid would cost $100 while the newest south park
> game would cost $5.
I don't like your utopia. :^) I see a difference between quality of
presentation and longevity. Metal Gear Solid is a terrific game, but
it's not one I'd come back to again and again. I'd used a pay per play
system in assigning value to a game. It doesn't take an expensive game
to be the one most often found in the system.
<snerp>
Benjamin
RoBearBellie
> OK, learn to read and to understand. The point of my post is that rare
> games like radiant silvergun or panzer dragoon saga are a safe
> investment--you won't lose your original outlay. That means that if you
> buy PDS for $100, you can sell it for $100 a month later. Try selling
> shenmue for $50 used next month. DO YOU GET IT NOW? I'm telling people
> that spending $100 on a game that you'll be able to resell for $100 is
> smarter than spending $50 on a game that won't sell for more than $35 in a
> month. So, if you have the means ($100 in disposable income), and you
> want to play a rare game--go buy it!!!
I have a slightly used IBM PS/1 computer with mono monitor. Paid over
$1,500 new several years ago and I will sell it to you for the low, low
price of only $1,500. Take it because I know someone else will buy them
for more than $2,000.
Get Real! Vidseo games (or almost any electrinic based merchandise)
rarely retain values over long term. As I mentioned in another post,
some of the rarer games actually lost it's value over the course of
several months. Your PDS that you paid $100 for it may not sell for
more than $50 next Summer.
I have lots of rare games. I could sell them all and make big bucks but
I won't. I like playing Phantasy Star on my SMS too much to sell it.
(It once sold regularly for $75-$100 on eBay 3 years ago, less than $50
today)
I still like playing Chrono Trigger on my SNES, even though with the
original box, manual in near mint condition, and 2 pieces of map posters
I could sell for more than $100. I won't sell them. 95% of my games
are on original owner with the only chance of changing hands is over my
dead body.
You want to invest in games, go ahead. It's not my money you're
throwing away! Just don't come back crying when you relisted your
aucton 3 or 4 times without ever having the reserve met once.
> CAN SOMEBODY WITH ANY COMMON SENSE BACK ME UP?
There are lots of people with common senses on this thread. You are not
one of them.
*plonk*
ASWoods
> ASWoods <aw0...@mail.rochester.edu> wrote:
>
> > OK, learn to read and to understand. The point of my post is that rare
> > games like radiant silvergun or panzer dragoon saga are a safe
> > investment--you won't lose your original outlay. That means that if you
> > buy PDS for $100, you can sell it for $100 a month later. Try selling
> > shenmue for $50 used next month. DO YOU GET IT NOW? I'm telling people
> > that spending $100 on a game that you'll be able to resell for $100 is
> > smarter than spending $50 on a game that won't sell for more than $35 in a
> > month. So, if you have the means ($100 in disposable income), and you
> > want to play a rare game--go buy it!!!
>
> I have a slightly used IBM PS/1 computer with mono monitor. Paid over
> $1,500 new several years ago and I will sell it to you for the low, low
> price of only $1,500. Take it because I know someone else will buy them
> for more than $2,000.
>
> Get Real! Vidseo games (or almost any electrinic based merchandise)
> rarely retain values over long term. As I mentioned in another post,
> some of the rarer games actually lost it's value over the course of
> several months. Your PDS that you paid $100 for it may not sell for
> more than $50 next Summer.
I paid $35 for my PDS and I wouldn't sell it for $250. It's print run was
so low so I doubt that it will ever decrease in value (unless it's
re-released which we can all hope for). Yes, you heard right--evil
scalper boy who only buys games to sell them and never plays them wants a
game that he could sell on ebay to be re-released! Why??? Because it's a
great fucking game that I've beaten twice and will play many more times.
I want everyone to see what a great game it is.
>
> I have lots of rare games. I could sell them all and make big bucks but
> I won't. I like playing Phantasy Star on my SMS too much to sell it.
> (It once sold regularly for $75-$100 on eBay 3 years ago, less than $50
> today)
Me too, I've got tons, but I wouldn't sell them.
>
> I still like playing Chrono Trigger on my SNES, even though with the
> original box, manual in near mint condition, and 2 pieces of map posters
> I could sell for more than $100. I won't sell them. 95% of my games
> are on original owner with the only chance of changing hands is over my
> dead body.
>
I've got a ROB with gyromite and all of the parts that I've had since '86.
No way I'll sell it.
> You want to invest in games, go ahead. It's not my money you're
> throwing away! Just don't come back crying when you relisted your
> aucton 3 or 4 times without ever having the reserve met once.
>
I never put a reserve on my auctions.
> > CAN SOMEBODY WITH ANY COMMON SENSE BACK ME UP?
>
> There are lots of people with common senses on this thread. You are not
> one of them.
>
It seems that anyone that can read english and think rationally will agree
with my main point. Perhaps the language I've used is a bit advanced for
some of you and I apologize. I'm sorry I don't fill my posts with
spelling and grammar errors. I'm sorry I use words with several
syllables.
(pl0nk!)
> *plonk*
>
>
ASWoods
I play every game I buy. I've never bought a game just to sell it. But
I'm not sure what I'd do if I stumbled upon a stack of Panzer Dragoon
Saga's on clearance at a toys r us. What would you do?
> Also, while I do spend quite a bit of time looking for games, that's not
> all I'm doing while searching. That is, while checking Internet game
> stores I'll be doing other work on the computer, whereas actually
> playing a game demands full attention.
>
> <snerp>
>
> > > > I'm not talking about games like tengen tetris which isn't even as good as
> > > > nintendo's release. I'm talking about games like:
> > >
> > > Actually, Tengen's Tetris _is_ better than Nintendo's effort -- it's the
> > > only one with a 2-player versus game.
> > >
> >
> > However, multiplayer tetris is available on a number of
> > systems--eliminating the novelty of tengen's tetris
>
> You were comparing the two NES versions. Of those two, the Tengen
> version is better.
>
My point here is that some games will never be replicated unless they are
re-released. If tengen's tetris was the only way to play multiplayer
tetris, I'd assume that demand for the game would be pretty high.
> <snerp>
>
> > > Accountants have no place in gaming. :^) _Lots_ of so-called rare games
> > > are utter crap. If you're only limiting yourself to those games which
> > > you can resell and not lose any/much money over, well, then, fine. I
> > > think that's the wrong way to go about things.
> >
> > That's not what I said. The only limits I place on gaming have to do
> > with the quality of the title. I'm trying to tell folks who want to play
> > certain games but are reluctant to spend $100 on them should reconsider
> > and just buy them. They will be able to resell them for a price similar
> > to what they paid.
>
> That's true, and I've thought like that in the past. I bought Can Can
> Bunny knowing that it would more or less amount to a free rental. That
> way I could see if I like it -- if I did, keep it; if I don't, resell at
> minimal loss. Needless to say I sold the garbage heap the day after
> receiving it.
>
Another thing I make sure to do is research a game extensively before I
buy it--to avoid this situation. That's why I would never buy a tengen
tetris (a game that might have been great in it's time) and I would buy a
Radiant Silvergun.
> <snerp>
>
> > I've always thought a novel idea in a
> > utopia would be to price everything on perceived quality and value. A
> > game like Metal Gear Solid would cost $100 while the newest south park
> > game would cost $5.
>
> I don't like your utopia. :^) I see a difference between quality of
> presentation and longevity. Metal Gear Solid is a terrific game, but
> it's not one I'd come back to again and again. I'd used a pay per play
> system in assigning value to a game. It doesn't take an expensive game
> to be the one most often found in the system.
>
That's a good point. I've played Sega Rally on saturn a hell of a lot
more than I've played Magic Knight Rayearth (both good games though MKR
costs five times as much).
Alex
> <snerp>
>
> Benjamin
>
>
Raymond McKeithen II
"@shidoshi" <shid...@relief-goddess.org> wrote in message
news:shidoshi-F2D765.17404112122000@news...
> In article <3A37171D...@platformer.com>, Benjamin
> <benj...@platformer.com> wrote:
>
> > You obviously aren't a gamer since you have no contentions on the
> > quality of the games you want to acquire -- only rarity. As Raymond has
> > said, you basically have an eBay scalper attitude.
>
> Now, hold on a second - unless I've missed some major comments from this
> guy, I don't think it is fair to start pointing fingers and calling names.
Read the subject line...
> I'm a gamer, yet I also DO indeed buy games for the "collection aspect. A
> number of the US Saturn games that I have, many of the harder to find
> games, I have simply to have them. I was trying to see how much of a US
> Saturn collection I could get which included the big named, harder to find
> games in it, until I finally decided just not to try anymore. I purchased
> games such as Shining the Holy Ark, US SF2 collection, stuff like that,
> and have never even taken the booklet out to look at it, let alone played
> the game. I also picked up a number of the English language-version
> hardcase NeoGeo Pocket Color games simply because there would be so few
> copies of each made. I've popped in and tried out at least every one of
> these games once or twice, but many now just sit in my collection.
I personally find this a disgusting practice.
By buying games you really have no interest in just to have them, for "rare"
titles you have probably kept someone else who wants to actually play these
games from having them. When enough people are "hoarding" the games in this
manner, it's the *very reason* they are rare, and you're contributing to the
games having outrageous selling prices.
That's what I find so contemptible about the people that through connections
at stores got multiple PS2 systems to scalp on eBay. Every system someone
bought to resell is a system that someone that wanted one for themselves
didn't get to buy at a normal price. (Of course Sony's production problems
are the cause of this but it's still a contemptible practice on the part of
the scalpers.)
[And before someone brings it up; no *I* didn't want to buy a PS2; I'll die
before I buy another Sony product.]
> There's nothing wrong with wanting to know what games are rare, and going
> out to pick them up because they are so. People have collections, and if
> you want to collect games, so be it. No one dogs on people who collect
> stamps and never use them, so why do the same for video games. If a
> person' s idea is JUST to find copies of the rare games, and then turn
> around and re-sell them for a profit, that I do have a problem with. But
> while most of the games I have I have because I play, I fully admit about
> 1/4th of them (or possibly more) I have just to have.
I don't think the stamp comparison is valid. If I want to use a stamp it
doesn't matter if it has a picture of the Mona Lisa or a flag on it, it
works the same.
> Let's bring up another example - the people who go out and spend $70, $80,
> $100+ on Japanese Limited Edition releases and don't touch them. Video
> Game Depot had a PERFECT quote about this, which of course I went to get
> and is now gone. It was for the Love Hina LE I believe, and read to this
> effect: "Regular shipping only for this item, unless you REALLY want to
> pay extra to get it on your shelf and never touch it again faster." =^)
> Same kind of thing going on here as the people who buy games for their
> rarity, I'd say.
Again, presumably the people buying LH LE and putting it on a shelf are
buying it because they like LH, they like the extras, something. Collecting
and not playing a game because you *like* something about it is one thing,
collecting it because it's *rare* is totally different.
I don't think VGD was making the point you're suggesting at all. I think
they were acknowledging that in the US, a large percentage of people who buy
a game like LH can't read Japanese, and as such of course they're not going
to be able to play the game. Then again, I usually have no idea what point
TK is trying to make. :P
--
Raymond
remove "suchiepai" for email
Benjamin
<snerp>
> I play every game I buy. I've never bought a game just to sell it. But
> I'm not sure what I'd do if I stumbled upon a stack of Panzer Dragoon
> Saga's on clearance at a toys r us. What would you do?
I did a couple of years ago. I bought all eight remaining copies and
sold them at $20 apiece (what I paid each) to people I knew who were
trying to get a copy to no avail. I have sold games out of my collection
(that I play :p) for more than I've originally paid for them, but I've
never bought something just to profit from its higher salable price
elsewhere. I don't care for that practice.
<snerp>
> My point here is that some games will never be replicated unless they are
> re-released. If tengen's tetris was the only way to play multiplayer
> tetris, I'd assume that demand for the game would be pretty high.
True, and it's another reason why games shouldn't be considered an
investment. I think once a new more readily available game supplies a
similar experience to a rare, over priced game, then that rare game's
value will decline. The Tengen Tetris is a good example. Part of my
interest in Treasure's Yu Yu Hsomething declined after Guardian Heroes
was released, since it was at the time the only four player fighting
game available.
<snerp>
Benjamin
Michael R. Baraniecki
<3A36C208...@platformer.com>:
>> There's nothing wrong with wanting to know what games are rare, and
>> going out to pick them up because they are so. People have
>> collections, and if you want to collect games, so be it. No one dogs
>> on people who collect stamps and never use them, so why do the same
>> for video games. If a person' s idea is JUST to find copies of the
>> rare games, and then turn around and re-sell them for a profit, that I
>> do have a problem with. But while most of the games I have I have
>> because I play, I fully admit about 1/4th of them (or possibly more) I
>> have just to have.
>
>Apples and oranges. Using a stamp destroys the stamp whereas video games
>are meant to be played. Also, if someone likes the design of an
>unavailable stamp, there are plenty of books out there which figures a
>facsimile of the stamp design. If someone wants a game that is no longer
>available, the person is out of luck without resorting to piracy.
How about a comparison with comics, then? Comics are supposed to be read
(just like a game is supposed to be played) but many people collect them.
Rare comics go up in value, and reprinted comics typically go down in
value. (Most of the time, not all, especially in my following example)
A lot of people buy two issues of a comic, if it came bagged. Or just two
issues, period. One to read, one to keep for collectibility. What about
those people who paid $100,000 for an Action Comics #1... surely nobody
expects them to open it and *read* it. Even though that's what it's
original purpose was. If a person dogs on a game 'collector' they better
dog on a comic collector or a Magic card collector, too. It's no
different. I'm not a big fan of scalping, but if somebody wants to
*collect* something, I don't really see anything wrong with it. Supply is
decreased, yes, but people love collecting just for the sake of
collecting. That's life.
--
-Mike
Michael R. Baraniecki
uni...@netcom.com
http://www.geocities.com/prowl
Space Ghost sounds and Videogame MIDIs
- Voted #1 by those asked which site they never want to see again
Alan Kwan
<shid...@relief-goddess.org> wrote:
>Let's bring up another example - the people who go out and spend $70, $80,
>$100+ on Japanese Limited Edition releases and don't touch them. Video
>Game Depot had a PERFECT quote about this, which of course I went to get
>and is now gone. It was for the Love Hina LE I believe, and read to this
>effect: "Regular shipping only for this item, unless you REALLY want to
>pay extra to get it on your shelf and never touch it again faster." =^)
>Same kind of thing going on here as the people who buy games for their
>rarity, I'd say.
The Japanese people who bought the LE didn't sit the game on the
shelf. Instead, they opened the box and sit the Tama-chan (turtle)
doll on their heads. Reportedly, they feel bliss through such act.
^_^
"Live life with Heart." - Alan Kwan / ta...@notmenetvigator.com
http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot (hard-core video game reviews)
Tarot Games Hong Kong: http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot/com
(please remove anti-spam section "notme" from mailing address)
Tom Hoffend
> These games meet the criteria listed above. Any of these games could be
> purchased on ebay, played, and resold for approximately the original price
> paid barring any re-release, damage, or other macro-environmental
> factors. Why doesn't everyone buy them? 2 reasons...1) People like me
> who enjoy great games would not be able to sell them 2) Most people make
> purchasing decisions considering price only. But, I'm an economist, and I
> don't expect most of you to understand my point or make rational
> decisions. It's our curse.
To me the whole point of this thread seems to be an interesting mental
exercise. Personally, I don't really think about games as investment,
but I do have a "dollar per entertainment hour" figure that I like to
keep around in my head when buying games. For me that figure is somewhere
around 2 dollars (US) / hour. I have a closet full of old games that I never
sell because they aren't worth much and I just might decide to play them
one more time, even for an hour or two; many are games I would just not
ever sell, period (eg. PD Saga). OTOH, I have several PC games
lying about which I bought because they looked/sounded interesting but
then I just never had the time to play (or even install).
I'm considered to be a mathematician by most, and cursed too for
that matter because I am entertained by mathy mental excercises.
Here is a quote from Godfrey Hardy (about Ramanujan) that sorta sums
up the different way of thinking:
"I remember once going to see him when he was lying ill at Putney. I had
ridden in taxi cab number 1729 and remarked that the number seemed to me
rather a dull one, and that I hoped it was not an unfavorable omen. "No,"
he replied, "it is a very interesting number; it is the smallest number
expressible as the sum of two cubes in two different ways." "
Source: Ramanujan, London: Cambridge Univesity Press, 1940.
TRH
--
Thomas R. Hoffend Jr., Ph.D. EMAIL: trho...@mmm.com
3M Company
Optical Markets and Technologies
Display Materials Technology Center
3M Center Bldg. 201-1C-18 My opinions are my own and not
St. Paul, MN 55144-1000 those of 3M Company.
Jeff Williams
"@shidoshi" <shid...@relief-goddess.org> wrote:
> Now, hold on a second - unless I've missed some major comments from
this
> guy, I don't think it is fair to start pointing fingers and calling
names.
> I'm a gamer, yet I also DO indeed buy games for the "collection
aspect. A
> number of the US Saturn games that I have, many of the harder to find
> games, I have simply to have them.
That's not what he was talking about - at least not in his original
post (I admit I've skipped a few of his later replies so I'm not sure
how he's responded, but we're still talking about his original post
here). I said too that I have a few games just to have them - I don't
think there's anything wrong with that, because you're still getting
some personal satisfaction from it. What I think is goofy is attaching
a monetary value to the equation - saying "buying this game is the
right thing to do because its monetary value will never decrease". I'd
never buy a game I didn't want strictly as an investment, and the games
I do collect I don't even think about the financial aspect - if I want
them, I buy them, whatever I think their monetary value's going to be
in a few years. I think you probably do the same thing - but I don't
think that's what ASwoods is talking about.
>
> There's nothing wrong with wanting to know what games are rare, and
going
> out to pick them up because they are so.
Heck, there's nothing really wrong or illegal or anything about what
ASwoods is talking about either; some people just think it's a dumb
attitude to have about video games because it's totally ignoring the
creative aspect of them, or at the very least saying that it's
secondary to monetary value.
--
// Jeff Williams
// ge...@nervhq.org
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
ASWoods
> In article <shidoshi-F2D765.17404112122000@news>,
> "@shidoshi" <shid...@relief-goddess.org> wrote:
> > Now, hold on a second - unless I've missed some major comments from
> this
> > guy, I don't think it is fair to start pointing fingers and calling
> names.
> > I'm a gamer, yet I also DO indeed buy games for the "collection
> aspect. A
> > number of the US Saturn games that I have, many of the harder to find
> > games, I have simply to have them.
>
> That's not what he was talking about - at least not in his original
> post (I admit I've skipped a few of his later replies so I'm not sure
> how he's responded, but we're still talking about his original post
> here). I said too that I have a few games just to have them - I don't
> think there's anything wrong with that, because you're still getting
> some personal satisfaction from it. What I think is goofy is attaching
> a monetary value to the equation - saying "buying this game is the
> right thing to do because its monetary value will never decrease". I'd
> never buy a game I didn't want strictly as an investment, and the games
> I do collect I don't even think about the financial aspect - if I want
> them, I buy them, whatever I think their monetary value's going to be
> in a few years. I think you probably do the same thing - but I don't
> think that's what ASwoods is talking about.
I think I'm trying to say that if one is thinking about buying a game
that's really rare, really good, *and* really expensive, and they're
worried that they might not like it, or they think that spending $100+ on
a game is too much, they could take comfort in the fact that barring
certain circumstances, they could sell the game back for a similar price.
Here's two simple examples to help clear up my point:
Joe's heard a lot about Panzer Dragoon Saga and he's been looking for it
for a long time. He buys it on ebay for $100. He plays it and beats it
in one weekend--he really enjoys it, but he doesn't think he's going to
play it again, and he would like to have the money back to buy Skies of
Arcadia and Grandia II. So, he lists the game on ebay and in a week it
sells for $96 dollars. He gets the money and buys the other 2 games.
He's happy because he got to play PDS and own 2 other great RPGs.
Sue's been told that Radiant Silvergun is the best shooter ever. She buys
it on ebay for $100. She tries it out for a couple of hours, but isn't
that impressed. Since it's not her thing, she puts it on the ebay auction
block. In a week it sells for $102. She gets her money and buys 2 games
that she knows she'll like.
Do these 2 examples make sense?
I was just trying to start a discussion about this claim when people
attacked me. I'm sure my original post was worded poorly which led to the
confusion. But man, there are some tools out there who missed my point
and chose to make assumptions about me and then to attack me rather than
to ask for clarification. But, that's the curse of videogames. They are
a form of entertainment that appeal to all different sorts of people so
these groups are full of people of different ages, education levels, etc.
So, while there is a good deal of discussion, there is too much trolling
and flaming (I admit that I'm not perfect either).
> >
> > There's nothing wrong with wanting to know what games are rare, and
> going
> > out to pick them up because they are so.
>
> Heck, there's nothing really wrong or illegal or anything about what
> ASwoods is talking about either; some people just think it's a dumb
> attitude to have about video games because it's totally ignoring the
> creative aspect of them, or at the very least saying that it's
> secondary to monetary value.
Never my point. I buy games based on quality only. My only purchasing
blunder was buying South Park for N64--what was I thinking??? I don't buy
games that I won't play. For example, I was recently considering buying
Policenauts for saturn. I researched it and learned that it's pretty text
heavy and a good grasp of japanese was required to enjoy it fully. So, I
passed on the auction. And, if I only thought about money, I wouldn't
have shelled out $120 for Samba de Amigo and the maracas. But, I have
gotten my money's worth out of this game. I consider myself a pretty
serious gamer--that's why I don't buy systems until they put out great
games--cough..cough...PS2...cough. With a price drop and a couple of top
notch titles, I might open up my wallet...
Alan Kwan
<aw0...@mail.rochester.edu> wrote:
>I think I'm trying to say that if one is thinking about buying a game
>that's really rare, really good, *and* really expensive, and they're
>worried that they might not like it, or they think that spending $100+ on
>a game is too much, they could take comfort in the fact that barring
>certain circumstances, they could sell the game back for a similar price.
>Here's two simple examples to help clear up my point:
>
>Joe's heard a lot about Panzer Dragoon Saga and he's been looking for it
>for a long time. He buys it on ebay for $100. He plays it and beats it
>in one weekend--he really enjoys it, but he doesn't think he's going to
>play it again, and he would like to have the money back to buy Skies of
>Arcadia and Grandia II. So, he lists the game on ebay and in a week it
>sells for $96 dollars. He gets the money and buys the other 2 games.
>He's happy because he got to play PDS and own 2 other great RPGs.
>
>Sue's been told that Radiant Silvergun is the best shooter ever. She buys
>it on ebay for $100. She tries it out for a couple of hours, but isn't
>that impressed. Since it's not her thing, she puts it on the ebay auction
>block. In a week it sells for $102. She gets her money and buys 2 games
>that she knows she'll like.
>
>Do these 2 examples make sense?
These examples do. But they don't when put together with your earlier
statement that you're reluctant to buy Silvergun because you might
like the game too much that you won't sell it.
>I was just trying to start a discussion about this claim when people
>attacked me. I'm sure my original post was worded poorly which led to the
>confusion. But man, there are some tools out there who missed my point
>and chose to make assumptions about me and then to attack me rather than
>to ask for clarification. But, that's the curse of videogames. They are
>a form of entertainment that appeal to all different sorts of people so
>these groups are full of people of different ages, education levels, etc.
>So, while there is a good deal of discussion, there is too much trolling
>and flaming (I admit that I'm not perfect either).
ASWoods
>
> These examples do. But they don't when put together with your earlier
> statement that you're reluctant to buy Silvergun because you might
> like the game too much that you won't sell it.
I was just saying that in my case, when I buy RS, I won't sell it back.
I was never specifically talking about myself, I was just making a general
claim. Of course I want to buy RS, but I'm patient enough to find it
through other channels besides ebay--channels that have not reached the
quasi-efficient marketplace like ebay has. What I mean to say is that
while RS may be worth $100 to me, I don't need to have it right away. I've
got my hands full with all of the other games I'm playing right now.
Paul J Chi
<ima...@strangepaths.com> wrote:
> There is one big, big problem with investing in games that are
> supposedly "rare"...
>
> Greatest Hits
>
> Sony's "Greatest Hits" series has seen the reprinting of dozens of their
> more popular titles at half or less than half of their original prices.
>
> Especially with a still-active console like the Playstation (since the
> PS2 is backwards-compatible) there is always the danger that the video
> game company will re-release the title, especially if it's a good one.
> There's been the possibility of Final Fantasy Tactics going to Greatest
> Hits brought up many times although it hasn't made it yet. And even with
> inactive consoles like the Genesis or Super Nintendo, often the best
> games for those systems get re-made into games for the newest systems.
> If Chrono Trigger PSX had been released in the US, you could bet that
> the price would go way down for SNES cartridges of the earlier version.
> Lunar for Sega CD was also remade, and while the original is still a
> collectable far fewer people really feel the need to get it since it's
> readily available for a current console, which would make bidding less
> active.
>
> Even with rare import-only games like Sailor Moon, there's always the a
> possibility that it'll finally be brought out in an English-language
> version and wipe out your investment.
>
> So are rare games a good investment? They could be. But a SAFE one? Not
> any moreso than any other investment...maybe even less.
>
> --Pook! ^_^
I disagree. If you are serious about collecting, a Greatest Hits (or
Satakore, or Dorikore) re-release doesn't hurt your investement that
much. After all, while the game becomes more common, the number of
copies in the original print run doesn't change. Let's take Sakura
Taisen for instance. There was a limited release, a regular release,
and a Satakore release. If you just want to play the game, any release
will do. But if you are collecting, the Satakore re-release doesn't
make it any easier to get the limited release. Let's say that Radiant
Silvergun got re-released. I'm pretty sure that the price on the
original would go down because most people who want the game just want
to play it, not collect it. They don't care about original release or
re-release. With more copies of the game in circulation, the price will
go down. But, if most people wanted RS just to collect, a re-release
wouldn't hurt the price, because people would still be looking for the
"RARE" first-run copies and not the common re-release copies. That's
why limited editions of games usually don't decrease that much from the
original retail, because the point of LEs isn't just playing the game,
but owning it "in style" as well. :) If you want a "safe" investment in
video games, LEs are the way to go. But if you want *really* safe,
you'd probably be better off buying US bonds or putting money in a
mutual fund or 401k.
Paul J Chi
<TheB...@nospam.edu> wrote:
Actually, what ASWoods is saying does make sense. He's saying that you
can buy a game for $100, try it, and sell it back for $100.
"Investment" may be throwing some people off. He just means that you
don't have to worry about your game losing value during the time you try
it out.
Yes, people have been making the point that games as a long-term
investment isn't a good idea. I agree with that. But during the short
term, i.e. weeks, it's not too bad of an idea.