Working Designs has crossed the line
Jeff Slipko
Now that rumors have been circulating around about Lunar:TSSS release
date pushed back for the mediocre Alundra I can finally say I am
PLEASED that WD is leaving the Saturn. They have done nothing
spectacular for us Saturn owners and the only things they have given
us are headaches from all their delays. WD should know why Sega put
them in the corner at E3: Sega gives the premium spots to companies
who RELEASE games and doesn't give everyone empty promises. I am
disgusted by them. I hope they fail with Sony.
nathan stehle
ten...@airmail.net (Jeff Slipko) writes:
Ah, another bitter person posting adding nothing to the dialogue. Alundra is
supposedly quite a good game. That's what it's about, isn't it? Games? That's
why I have a PS and a Saturn. WD is still one of the few 3rd party companies
making games for the Saturn. Look at the upcoming release list if you don't
believe me. Sega broke their promise and Bernie Stolar is ruining Sega,
believe it or not. Delays happen, which is why Warcaft II is out. The date
has been pushed back one month.
--
Nathan Stehle
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Early to bed and early to rise, makes a man stupid and blind in the eyes."
Mazer Rackham in Orson Scott Card's "Ender's Game"
Henry LaPierre
In
<D0DA858EC829C181.6C86AF99...@library-proxy.airne
s.net> ten...@airmail.net (Jeff Slipko) writes:
>
>Now that rumors have been circulating around about Lunar:TSSS release
>date pushed back for the mediocre Alundra I can finally say I am
>PLEASED that WD is leaving the Saturn.
Not to stick up for WD, as I think they have some major problems, but
Alundra is far from "mediocre".
Henry LaPierre
fre...@ix.netcom.com
Jeff Slipko
>Ah, another bitter person posting adding nothing to the dialogue. Alundra is
>supposedly quite a good game. That's what it's about, isn't it? Games? That's
>why I have a PS and a Saturn. WD is still one of the few 3rd party companies
>making games for the Saturn. Look at the upcoming release list if you don't
>believe me. Sega broke their promise and Bernie Stolar is ruining Sega,
>believe it or not. Delays happen, which is why Warcaft II is out. The date
>has been pushed back one month.
Yes, delays do happen. But does Sega Ages require so much of a
translation as to be delayed for 2 months? SA was reviewed in the July
issue of EGM and it still won't be out until September. Plus MKRE has
been delayed over a year. If it ever comes out here it will be over a
2 and a half year old game in Japan. Same thing goes for Lunar: TSS.
Yes, delays are good if it means a better product in the end. But in
this case it is so obvious they are favoring the PSX over Saturn,
games that were supposed to be out over a year ago are being pushed
back for PSX games that haven't even been delayed once. Is this fair?
Jeremy Reaban
Well, Alundra does look pretty good. So, I'm not sure I'd call it mediocre.
I'd certainly put it over Albert Oddysey, or Shining Wisdom.
However, I understand your point of view. The games I mostly want on the
Saturn are MKR and Lunar:TSSS. Which, at this point, don't seem very
likely to come out this year.
I was also rather hoping that Sony would translate Alundra, because I hate
WD's translations. I like the fact that they bring over games, but their
translations are just terrible. I like jokes, but the ones WD make up are
pretty weak, AND they rely on references to popular US culture. And
they're cutting out most of Alundra's opening movie.
On the internet at least, save for the usual fanatics, WD is making few
fans lately. Saturn owners are pissed because of their jumping ship, as
well as delays in Sega Ages, MKR and L:TSSS while PSX owners are getting
pissed because of the huge delays (in raystorm).
<g> Still, at least Vic isn't insulting customers , like that guy from
Atlus.
Jeff Slipko <ten...@airmail.net> wrote in article
<D0DA858EC829C181.6C86AF99...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>...
> Now that rumors have been circulating around about Lunar:TSSS release
> date pushed back for the mediocre Alundra I can finally say I am
DMX
In article <5t88m7$m...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, as...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
(David Oldridge) wrote:
> 5. Considering WD's history and current plans of porting popular titles
> which no other company wanted to bother with, why do you wish them to
> go out of business? The only way the Lunar series might come out
> without WD (if it came out in the US at all) would be if SoA picked it
> up. That would leave you with an inferior translation (PS4), pathetic
> marketting (Gungriffon, anything by Treasure), or just absent (Thunder
> Force 5).
>
> Please think through your rants a bit more next time.
I hope the (PS4) you wrote as an example of an inferior Sega translation
is NOT Phantasy Star 4. I think PS4 is sega's best translation ever and I
certainly think it's better than any WD has ever done.
-DMX
--
Visit my page dedicated to Lunar and 32-bit RPG's!
http://home.earthlink.net/~alatorre
Joe Ottoson
In article
<B37B37A0B7E724B8.CDCE7155...@library-proxy.airnews.net>,
ten...@airmail.net wrote:
>But in
> this case it is so obvious they are favoring the PSX over Saturn,
> games that were supposed to be out over a year ago are being pushed
> back for PSX games that haven't even been delayed once. Is this fair?
Why is it so obvious that WD's favoring the PSx? Because they announced
Alunrda? Because it has a Dec release date (nah, WD's never posted an over
optimistic release date before!) or is it because Lunar's date slipped
(slipping release dates are all but impossible for WD as proven in the
past apparently...)
When did rumors gain more credibility than WD's history?
Reviewer for Gamers Island
David Oldridge
Jeff Slipko (ten...@airmail.net) writes:
> Now that rumors have been circulating around about Lunar:TSSS release
> date pushed back for the mediocre Alundra I can finally say I am
> PLEASED that WD is leaving the Saturn. They have done nothing
> spectacular for us Saturn owners and the only things they have given
> us are headaches from all their delays. WD should know why Sega put
> them in the corner at E3: Sega gives the premium spots to companies
> who RELEASE games and doesn't give everyone empty promises. I am
> disgusted by them. I hope they fail with Sony.
1. Why do you call Alundra "mediocre"? That's not a word usually
associated with this title.
2. WD has only given headaches to Saturn owners? Ever hear of Dragon
Force or Iron Storm? These titles are some of the best games out for
any console.
3. The version of Lunar which WD is releasing has only been out in Japan
for about 6 weeks now. That, Sega Ages and Magic Knight Rayearth are
still in development for release, and is hardly an empty (or small)
promise.
4. Sony seems to respect them a fair bit. The same E3 which SoA tried to
squeeze WD out of, was the same one which Sony gave WD prominent space
for a shooter port (RayStorm).
Jeff Slipko
>1. Why do you call Alundra "mediocre"? That's not a word usually
> associated with this title.
I call it mediocre because they are delaying a great game such as
Lunar for it. C ome on David. You are blind and brainwashed by those
damn color manuals.
>2. WD has only given headaches to Saturn owners? Ever hear of Dragon
> Force or Iron Storm? These titles are some of the best games out for
> any console.
Ever hear of year delays and Shining Wisdom? Both are headaches. DF
got boring after awhile and Iron Storm was not my cup of tea.
>3. The version of Lunar which WD is releasing has only been out in Japan
> for about 6 weeks now. That, Sega Ages and Magic Knight Rayearth are
> still in development for release, and is hardly an empty (or small)
> promise.
Still in developement... That's great. But over a year development
time is quite unnecesary.
>4. Sony seems to respect them a fair bit. The same E3 which SoA tried to
> squeeze WD out of, was the same one which Sony gave WD prominent space
> for a shooter port (RayStorm).
Because Sony knows they have brainwashed fans such as you that will
buy PSXs for WD's games.
>5. Considering WD's history and current plans of porting popular titles
> which no other company wanted to bother with, why do you wish them to
> go out of business? The only way the Lunar series might come out
> without WD (if it came out in the US at all) would be if SoA picked it
> up. That would leave you with an inferior translation (PS4), pathetic
> marketting (Gungriffon, anything by Treasure), or just absent (Thunder
> Force 5).
>
Inferior translation... OK, wait a YEAR and get crappy jokes. Or wait
a few MONTHS and get an decent translation with no crappy jokes. Which
would you choose Mr. WD?
Kevin Duncan
Jeff Slipko <ten...@airmail.net> wrote in article
<D0DA858EC829C181.6C86AF99...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>...
> Now that rumors have been circulating around about Lunar:TSSS release
> date pushed back for the mediocre Alundra I can finally say I am
> PLEASED that WD is leaving the Saturn. They have done nothing
> spectacular for us Saturn owners and the only things they have given
> us are headaches from all their delays. WD should know why Sega put
> them in the corner at E3: Sega gives the premium spots to companies
> who RELEASE games and doesn't give everyone empty promises. I am
> disgusted by them. I hope they fail with Sony.
>
>
This is one of the dumbest posts I've seen in years. IMHO WD (along with
Capcom and Sega) were one of the only reasons to own a Saturn. SOA made
the BIGGEST mistake in the Saturn's history by letting WD go. There games
may take a while, but I guarantee that when I see Alex's familar face pop
up on my TV once more, it will all be worth it. I also don't see why
people get pissed over MKR's long delay when all WD wanted was to please
it's fans by keeping true to the original (although I figure they could
have been doing something else to it in the meantime, am I wrong?). Also,
keep in mind that we are getting the newer version of Lunar and (if no more
delays happen) only about half a year after Japan, it took nearly that
long for Sega to translate Fighter's Megamix (a game with much less text
than an rpg)! So, WD may take a while, but they have produced some of the
most memorable moments in all my years of playing games. I hope they
succeed with Sony and all their other platforms.
Colt Duncan
ThePlST
>Also,
>keep in mind that we are getting the newer version of Lunar and (if no
more
>delays happen) only about half a year after Japan, it took nearly that
>long for Sega to translate Fighter's Megamix (a game with much less text
>than an rpg)!
Actually, it probabally took Sega less than a month (if even that) to
translate Megamix concidering the only Japanese was the options screen.
But companies usually wait so they can strategically release their games.
If Sega has 20 games translated in wouldn't be smart to bring them all in
the same month, when you could spread them out. That is usually the reason
for stange delays in non-RPG games.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ThePlST's Sega SATURN page:
http://members.aol.com/theplst/saturn.html
Come visit the my Saturn page!!! Email me at:
The...@aol.com
jer...@suba.com
Okay, here's my very rational take on things:
In article
<A4A2CFD1AB6C4635.F6830872...@library-proxy.airnews.net>,
ten...@airmail.net wrote:
> >2. WD has only given headaches to Saturn owners? Ever hear of Dragon
> > Force or Iron Storm? These titles are some of the best games out for
> > any console.
>
> Ever hear of year delays and Shining Wisdom? Both are headaches. DF
> got boring after awhile and Iron Storm was not my cup of tea.
>
This isn't an issue of what is your cup of tea or what isn't. Fighters
Megamix might not be one person's preference where Shining The Holy Ark
would. This isn't about what games you like personally. Dragon Force and
Iron Storm are still great Strategy games. Whether you like them or not
does not take anything away from WD.
> >3. The version of Lunar which WD is releasing has only been out in Japan
> > for about 6 weeks now. That, Sega Ages and Magic Knight Rayearth are
> > still in development for release, and is hardly an empty (or small)
> > promise.
>
> Still in developement... That's great. But over a year development
> time is quite unnecesary.
>
MKR has been in limbo for so long because of the legalities in using the
original Japanese OVA names. That's been resolved for some time now,
however, and I was a bit alarmed to hear it isn't even close to being
completed. Still has an October release date, but I could see it getting
pushed back to December or even January, which does not bode well for
Lunar getting released any time soon.
> >5. Considering WD's history and current plans of porting popular titles
> > which no other company wanted to bother with, why do you wish them to
> > go out of business? The only way the Lunar series might come out
> > without WD (if it came out in the US at all) would be if SoA picked it
> > up. That would leave you with an inferior translation (PS4), pathetic
> > marketting (Gungriffon, anything by Treasure), or just absent (Thunder
> > Force 5).
> >
>
> Inferior translation... OK, wait a YEAR and get crappy jokes. Or wait
> a few MONTHS and get an decent translation with no crappy jokes. Which
> would you choose Mr. WD?
Again, it's what you prefer, not that it's a knock to WD. If they take a
longer time to translate their games with the jokes rather than take less
time WITHOUT jokes, it's probably just the same. You'll always have fans
on either side of the argument. What is bad though, is that WD is KNOWN
for missing release dates, not any knock on them, and I would start
worrying if Alundra met it's release date while the Saturn releases were
delayed. It would really show where their priorities are...
Jeremy
jer...@suba.com
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
nagisa kaoru
> 2. WD has only given headaches to Saturn owners? Ever hear of Dragon
> Force or Iron Storm? These titles are some of the best games out
> for any console.
shining wisdom was a turd sandwich that pushed their whole schedule back
so much because it was so buggy. that was the biggest saturn mistake
they >ever< made. not to mention the long waits for nearly no actual
improvements in AO.
> 3. The version of Lunar which WD is releasing has only been out in
> Japan for about 6 weeks now. That, Sega Ages and Magic Knight > Rayearth are still in development for release, and is hardly an
> empty (or small) promise.
what was the version of lunar at E3 that they had done some recoding on?
a super secret beta of LSSS: complete? no, it was the original LSSS
with bigger video. [marginally bigger.] sega ages being delayed is just
plain comical, and they've spent too much time on MKR to give up on it,
i'd imagine.
> 4. Sony seems to respect them a fair bit. The same E3 which SoA tried > to squeeze WD out of, was the same one which Sony gave WD > prominent space for a shooter port (RayStorm).
"tried to squeeze WD out of" i think is a bit of an unfair, or at least,
overly paranoid assessment. whether or not the physical placement of
WD's booth was sega or WD's fault, which is moot, it was just a booth
where sega had piles of empty space, and WD was stuck with it for
whatever reason. i don't think sega was intentionally trying to shove WD
to the side and bring them down. as for sony giving them space, well,
sony gave everyone a console to stick their game in, and raystorm was on
that damn stupid catwalk thing anyway.
> 5. Considering WD's history and current plans of porting popular
> titles which no other company wanted to bother with, why do you > wish them to go out of business? The only way the Lunar series > might come out without WD (if it came out in the US at all) would
> be if SoA picked it up. That would leave you with an inferior
> translation (PS4), pathetic marketting (Gungriffon, anything by
> Treasure), or just absent (Thunder Force 5).
> Please think through your rants a bit more next time.
ok. first of all, the inferiority of the PS4 translation is mostly
based on the fact that PS1 had a hideous translation and they came out
several years apart. all of the translations of katakana words in PS4
were easily adequate and faithful to the japanese version. second of
all, comparing PS4 to current translations is silly, because it's a
several year old game. compare it to the translation in StHA, which i
haven't played so i cannot comment on. if you're going to compare it to
an old sega translation, compare it to the landstalker translation,
which was great. =P speaking of StHA, it had pathetic marketing and it
certainly has done well... as good or better than FMM which had decent
marketing. TF5 may or may not sell well. all saturn shooters have been
failures and i'm assuming they're being conservative in their
estimations. they can always just put it out if they want to change
their mind, it would take a minute to change the country code and press
it.
--
B R Y C E | shin seiki evangelion | B R Y C E
L Y N C H | asuka: "i hate, hate, | L Y N C H
7 1 0 8 8 | everyone, everything!" | 7 1 0 8 8
L I B R A | efnet irc : ferris_b | L I B R A
1 2 6 R D | ka...@cyberenet.net | 1 2 6 R D
Charles E. Rick Taylor IV
On Sun, 17 Aug 1997 22:44:25 GMT, ten...@airmail.net (Jeff Slipko)
wrote (in rec.games.video.sega):
:But in
:this case it is so obvious they are favoring the PSX over Saturn,
:games that were supposed to be out over a year ago are being pushed
:back for PSX games that haven't even been delayed once. Is this fair?
You should realize by now that when the label says "Working Designs",
it's *gonna* *be* *delayed*. As for their PSX games - Raystorm (which
should almost be a complete no-brainer to translate) is still not out!
--
__ ___ _ _ _ | >>>>> cha...@super.zippo.com <<<<<
|_)o _ |/ | |_|\_/| / \|_) | Charles E. "Rick" Taylor, IV
| \||_ |\ | | | | |_\_/| \ | We got the MRxL, and spammers got NONE
drakhen
you are just plain stupid i know this is flamming but i do not care you
jeff slipko are just plain stupid,hoping a game fails on another system and
about headaches give me a break they are the only ones making any rpg's for
the saturn besides stha,would you rather no rpg's come out for the
saturn.and sega has no room to talk about delays at least wd is making a go
of the saturn thats more than i can say for sega. why don't you just crawl
back into your little corner and drop dead.
Jeremy Reaban
The translation of FMM was done way before it was released - Sega just sat
on it to milk sales of FV...(and because they're idiots)
Kevin Duncan <k...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<01bcab8b$ce2275e0$a92856d1@newmicronpc>...
<snip>
> delays happen) only about half a year after Japan, it took nearly that
> long for Sega to translate Fighter's Megamix (a game with much less text
Jeff Slipko
On 18 Aug 1997 05:00:09 GMT, "drakhen" <dra...@pond.net> wrote:
>you are just plain stupid i know this is flamming but i do not care you
>jeff slipko are just plain stupid,hoping a game fails on another system and
>about headaches give me a break they are the only ones making any rpg's for
>the saturn besides stha,would you rather no rpg's come out for the
>saturn.and sega has no room to talk about delays at least wd is making a go
>of the saturn thats more than i can say for sega. why don't you just crawl
>back into your little corner and drop dead.
Me stupid?! At least I use capitalized letters at the begging of a
sentence and a period at the end. About headaches, I got one from
reading your message. I couldn't tell wear a sentence begun or
finished. True WD is making a go. But it is at a speed of a turtle.
MKRE is over 2 years old. Was it worth 2 years to get the original
names?! Please. I would take Jane, Susan, and Kelly over the original
names if it assured me of getting the title on time. Sega is getting
better. WD is just delaying and delaying. It is starting to get
really annoying. By the time MKRE comes out here it will be almost 3
years old.
Kazenoyume
<<I was also rather hoping that Sony would translate Alundra, because I
hate
WD's translations. I like the fact that they bring over games, but their
translations are just terrible. I like jokes, but the ones WD make up are
pretty weak, AND they rely on references to popular US culture. And
they're cutting out most of Alundra's opening movie. >>
Whaaa...?? What's this about cutting out Alundra's opening cinema?? Where
did you hear this? Why might WD be doing this? If this is true, then
forget WD, I'll just get the import. I accept no editing in my games.
Devilot
drakhen wrote:
>
> you are just plain stupid i know this is flamming but i do not care you
> jeff slipko are just plain stupid,hoping a game fails on another system and
> about headaches give me a break they are the only ones making any rpg's for
> the saturn besides stha,would you rather no rpg's come out for the
> saturn.and sega has no room to talk about delays at least wd is making a go
> of the saturn thats more than i can say for sega. why don't you just crawl
> back into your little corner and drop dead.
Do you know what these two little keys on your keyboard signify? ',' and
'.' are commas and periods. They're not there just for show.
Devilot
Well, it's not really an opening cinema, it's ten minutes of little SD
characters doing stuff. It's a flashback, actually. Anyway, what WD is
doing is cutting out the anime ending which shows the stuff happening at
the beginning, putting THAT at the beginning, and cutting out the ten
minute intro.
axel
nathan stehle wrote:
>
> ten...@airmail.net (Jeff Slipko) writes:
>
> >Now that rumors have been circulating around about Lunar:TSSS release
> >date pushed back for the mediocre Alundra I can finally say I am
> >PLEASED that WD is leaving the Saturn. They have done nothing
> >spectacular for us Saturn owners and the only things they have given
> >us are headaches from all their delays. WD should know why Sega put
> >them in the corner at E3: Sega gives the premium spots to companies
> >who RELEASE games and doesn't give everyone empty promises. I am
> >disgusted by them. I hope they fail with Sony.
>
> supposedly quite a good game. That's what it's about, isn't it? Games? That's
> why I have a PS and a Saturn. WD is still one of the few 3rd party companies
> making games for the Saturn. Look at the upcoming release list if you don't
> believe me. Sega broke their promise and Bernie Stolar is ruining Sega,
> believe it or not. Delays happen, which is why Warcaft II is out. The date
> has been pushed back one month.
>
> Nathan Stehle
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> "Early to bed and early to rise, makes a man stupid and blind in the eyes."
> Mazer Rackham in Orson Scott Card's "Ender's Game"
saturn?Maybe
u bought a genisis and thought the wrong thing!
ERICLOB
>In article <5t88m7$m...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, as...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
>(David Oldridge) wrote:
>
>> which no other company wanted to bother with, why do you wish them to
>> go out of business? The only way the Lunar series might come out
>> without WD (if it came out in the US at all) would be if SoA picked it
>> up. That would leave you with an inferior translation (PS4), pathetic
>> marketting (Gungriffon, anything by Treasure), or just absent (Thunder
>> Force 5).
People definately need to give WD a little respect, if not for future
titles, for past ones. Their catalog of titles is mostly good and they
have several very good titles remaining for the Saturn.
That being said, the games I'll miss most are ones that WD might have done
had they not decided to head towards greener pastures: Grandia, Lunar EB,
Thunderforce V, Apocalypse IV, Soukyugurentai.
I understand their decision but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
Darien Allen
ten...@airmail.net (Jeff Slipko) wrote:
>>4. Sony seems to respect them a fair bit. The same E3 which SoA tried to
>> squeeze WD out of, was the same one which Sony gave WD prominent space
>> for a shooter port (RayStorm).
>
>Because Sony knows they have brainwashed fans such as you that will
>buy PSXs for WD's games.
>
Actually it's because everyone knows a GOOD shooter, which is far and
few between in the marketplace these days, will sell.
[Newsgroups.....absolutely, positively,]
[the quickest way....to spread misinformation!]
[DarienAllen AT IBM.net]
...remove nospam to reply....
Mike S Reynolds
In article <5t88m7$m...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
David Oldridge <as...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>
>1. Why do you call Alundra "mediocre"? That's not a word usually
> associated with this title.
Agreed here, it's a great game. I'd much rather have Lunar though.
>2. WD has only given headaches to Saturn owners? Ever hear of Dragon
> Force or Iron Storm? These titles are some of the best games out for
> any console.
Everybody has their own opinions. DF was great but it's not in my top ten
Saturn games let alone any console. Iron Storm, I didn't get into it but a
lot of people did so I'll leave that alone. IMO WD hasn't released anything
that compares to Lunar or Lunar EB on any platform. Not even close.
>3. The version of Lunar which WD is releasing has only been out in Japan
> for about 6 weeks now. That, Sega Ages and Magic Knight Rayearth are
> still in development for release, and is hardly an empty (or small)
> promise.
What exactly was added in this newer version? MPEG cinemas which we can't
see and some new music? I've heard the regular FMV is also better but
that's not a very big deal IMO. Does the newer version add anything else?
Someone please enlighten me...Certainly does not seem worth waiting for but
Vic also felt it was worth waiting 2 years for the original names in MKR.
>4. Sony seems to respect them a fair bit. The same E3 which SoA tried to
> squeeze WD out of, was the same one which Sony gave WD prominent space
> for a shooter port (RayStorm).
Agreed here, SoA is clueless. However I don't think SoA's actions at E3
were reason enough for WD to leave Saturn, and truth be told I don't think
it really was the reason they left Saturn. My opinion though, no facts to
back it up.
>5. Considering WD's history and current plans of porting popular titles
> which no other company wanted to bother with, why do you wish them to
> go out of business? The only way the Lunar series might come out
> without WD (if it came out in the US at all) would be if SoA picked it
> up. That would leave you with an inferior translation (PS4), pathetic
> marketting (Gungriffon, anything by Treasure), or just absent (Thunder
> Force 5).
First of all PS4 was a great translation. Yeah SoA got a few of the names
wrong but overall it was quite good. I really don't want to think about
playing a PS game with WD humor in it (NOTE: I do like WD humor in the
games they have done, but it really would not work in PS). Inferior
marketing? Probably, but WD doesn't exactly market the hell out of their
games. You forgot to mention the vastly superior packaging WD uses, which is
a big point in their favor. However I suspect that a SoA port of an RPG
would be considerably faster than a WD one. Of course this is all moot
because SoA, in their infinite wisdom, will most likely just leave Lunar EB
and Grandia in Japan.
Mike Reynolds
Darien Allen
cha...@super.zippo.com (Charles E. "Rick" Taylor IV) wrote:
>On Sun, 17 Aug 1997 22:44:25 GMT, ten...@airmail.net (Jeff Slipko)
>wrote (in rec.games.video.sega):
>
>:But in
>:this case it is so obvious they are favoring the PSX over Saturn,
>:games that were supposed to be out over a year ago are being pushed
>:back for PSX games that haven't even been delayed once. Is this fair?
>
>You should realize by now that when the label says "Working Designs",
>it's *gonna* *be* *delayed*. As for their PSX games - Raystorm (which
>should almost be a complete no-brainer to translate) is still not out!
The 'new' release date is 8/29/97.
free...@earthlink.net
In article <5t7f2m$bas$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, ste...@aries.scs.uiuc.edu
(nathan stehle) wrote:
> ten...@airmail.net (Jeff Slipko) writes:
>
> >Now that rumors have been circulating around about Lunar:TSSS release
> >date pushed back for the mediocre Alundra I can finally say I am
> >PLEASED that WD is leaving the Saturn. They have done nothing
> >spectacular for us Saturn owners and the only things they have given
> >us are headaches from all their delays. WD should know why Sega put
> >them in the corner at E3: Sega gives the premium spots to companies
> >who RELEASE games and doesn't give everyone empty promises. I am
> >disgusted by them. I hope they fail with Sony.
>
> Ah, another bitter person posting adding nothing to the dialogue. Alundra is
> supposedly quite a good game.
Have you ever played the game "Landstalker" for the Genesis? Alundra is
made by the same company who produced that game, Climax, and both games
seem similar, except Alundra has a top-down view instead of an isometric
view. I've played the Japanese version, and I have to say that Alundra is
the best action RPG out on the PSX, IMHO. If WD can just get this game
and Magic Knight Rayearth out on time, I'll be quite happy...
Lee
David Oldridge
Jeff Slipko (ten...@airmail.net) writes:
>>1. Why do you call Alundra "mediocre"? That's not a word usually
>> associated with this title.
>
> I call it mediocre because they are delaying a great game such as
> Lunar for it. C ome on David. You are blind and brainwashed by those
> damn color manuals.
Speculation. The Lunar date slipped, which is common for WD release
dates, and a PSX title was added which will also likely slip. Note that
RayStorm has yet to be released, despite being a PSX title.
Besides, even if your unproven speculation about an anti-Saturn plot
within WD were true, "mediocre" relates to game quality more than it does
to the politics behind the game's release.
>>2. WD has only given headaches to Saturn owners? Ever hear of Dragon
>> Force or Iron Storm? These titles are some of the best games out for
>> any console.
>
> Ever hear of year delays and Shining Wisdom? Both are headaches.
Is WD the only company to release a game that wasn't an A title? Are they
only delaying Saturn projects, while keeping deadlines for other projects?
> DF
> got boring after awhile and Iron Storm was not my cup of tea.
Completely irrelevant. Those titles received much praise from various
gaming publications, sold very well, and offer more replayability than
most other releases. I get little enjoyment out of most of Miyamoto's
(Nintendo's #1 programmer) projects, but I'm not going to use that to
dismiss his games as unimportant and dull.
>>3. The version of Lunar which WD is releasing has only been out in Japan
>> for about 6 weeks now. That, Sega Ages and Magic Knight Rayearth are
>> still in development for release, and is hardly an empty (or small)
>> promise.
>
> Still in developement... That's great. But over a year development
> time is quite unnecesary.
For which game? Lunar hasn't been out for a year (at least not the
version the US will be getting), and MKR was probably put on the
backburner while WD learned exactly how it was going to be. Which leaves
Sega Ages, a title that SoA (who needed months to release the Japanese
version of Manx TT) had outright rejected, despite being able to release
more than one title at a time.
>>4. Sony seems to respect them a fair bit. The same E3 which SoA tried to
>> squeeze WD out of, was the same one which Sony gave WD prominent space
>> for a shooter port (RayStorm).
>
> Because Sony knows they have brainwashed fans such as you that will
> buy PSXs for WD's games.
Insults are so easy to come up with when you no longer have valid
arguments to use instead, especially since I don't own a PSX nor do I plan
on buying one. Sony saw the company that made the Sega CD do better than
it otherwise would have, the company that proved RPGs were viable in the
US, the company that produced two of the best selling war sims for todays
consoles. If WD was as worthless and incompetant as you claim them to be,
do you think Sony would do that?
>>5. Considering WD's history and current plans of porting popular titles
>> which no other company wanted to bother with, why do you wish them to
>> go out of business? The only way the Lunar series might come out
>> without WD (if it came out in the US at all) would be if SoA picked it
>> up. That would leave you with an inferior translation (PS4), pathetic
>> marketting (Gungriffon, anything by Treasure), or just absent (Thunder
>> Force 5).
>
> Inferior translation... OK, wait a YEAR and get crappy jokes. Or wait
> a few MONTHS and get an decent translation with no crappy jokes. Which
> would you choose Mr. WD?
I can see why you wanted to gloss over Iron Storm and Dragon Force now,
since those two titles sink your argument. Wait and get the version with
no jokes, or wait, and wait, and wait and still never see it. I doubt any
humor would have been added to the Thunder Force and Soukyugurentai titles
either, or to the Iron Storm sequel. And was anyone in a hurry to pick up
Lunar 2?
"You are blind and brainwashed by those damn color manuals."
"Because Sony knows they have brainwashed fans such as you..."
"Which would you choose Mr. WD?"
You also conveniently missed a few points and glossed over a few others.
If you can't answer the points or can't come up with fair reasons to
target your bias against a single company, why bother responding?
Charles Doane
Victor Ireland wrote:
>
> >Whaaa...?? What's this about cutting out Alundra's opening cinema??
> Where
> >did you hear this? Why might WD be doing this? If this is true, then
> >forget WD, I'll just get the import. I accept no editing in my games.
>
> fuzzy gameplay clips that really don't do the game justice. We're
> rearranging some of the flashback anime (actual movies, as opposed to
> gameplay footage) from the rear of the game to the front and recutting it.
> The end result will be far better than the original, and won't contain
> "spoilers" like the current intro does.
>
> Don't Believe the Hype -
> Vic
I could accept that, if it were done like Astal's intro. In Astal, there
are two intros. The main one, and then if nothing was done by the player
(no buttons pressed, etc) a SECOND intro starts. I think that would be
the BEST way to go in this case, because it satisfies everybody, the
Purists and the Revisionists. Part of Working Design's mystique is that
they give American gamers games they wouldn't ever get otherwise. I'm
going to get Alundra, regardless, but I don't like the thought that I'm
*missing* something.
P.S. Why is Alundra on RGV Sega? Isn't that a SONY title???
--
eppur si muove... 'and yet it does move'... Galileo,
after recanting his assertion of the Earth's motion.
Ken Arromdee
Dev...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>Well, it's not really an opening cinema, it's ten minutes of little SD
>characters doing stuff. It's a flashback, actually. Anyway, what WD is
>doing is cutting out the anime ending which shows the stuff happening at
>the beginning, putting THAT at the beginning, and cutting out the ten
>minute intro.
So why can't they at least leave it in as an option? Just have it so that if
someone selects "Enable Cheesy SD Opening Screens" it shows the ten minute
intro as well.
--
Ken Arromdee |They said it was *daft* to build a space
arro...@inetnow.net |station in a swamp, but I showed them! It
karr...@nyx.nyx.net |sank unto the swamp. So I built a second
http://www.inetnow.net/~arromdee|space station. That sank into the swamp too.
--------------------------------+My third space station sank into the swamp.
So I built a fourth one. That fell into a time warp and _then_ sank into the
swamp. But the fifth one... stayed up! --Monty Python/Babylon 5
drakhen
i thought that newsgroups were to get points accross and not to worry about
spelling etc i know there important but come on if you are going to repley
than at least have it have something to do with the
post............................................................,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''
Devilot <Dev...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<33F901...@worldnet.att.net>...
> drakhen wrote:
> >
> > you are just plain stupid i know this is flamming but i do not care you
> > jeff slipko are just plain stupid,hoping a game fails on another system
and
> > about headaches give me a break they are the only ones making any rpg's
for
> > the saturn besides stha,would you rather no rpg's come out for the
> > saturn.and sega has no room to talk about delays at least wd is making
a go
> > of the saturn thats more than i can say for sega. why don't you just
crawl
> > back into your little corner and drop dead.
>
> Do you know what these two little keys on your keyboard signify? ',' and
> '.' are commas and periods. They're not there just for show.
>
> >
> > Jeff Slipko <ten...@airmail.net> wrote in article
> >
<D0DA858EC829C181.6C86AF99...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
> > t>...
Jeremy Reaban
Doh! That's what I meant. Anyway, I wish they'd just leave it alone.
Henry LaPierre <fre...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<5tbidc$4...@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com>...
> In <01bcac5f$798a2b20$3f6703d0@jer> "Jeremy Reaban" <j...@XXXinlink.com>
<snip>
>
> The intro is gameplay scenes, the ending is an anime
>
> Henry LaPierre
> fre...@ix.netcom.com
>
> >Kazenoyume <kazen...@aol.com> wrote in article
> ><19970818234...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
> ><snip>
Jeremy Reaban
Apparently, the ending is composed of gameplay scenes. So, they'd cutting
that out, and using the ending for the begining. What they plan on using
for the ending, I don't know. Maybe they are just cutting out parts of the
ending and using it as the into?
Henry LaPierre
In <33F903...@worldnet.att.net> Devilot <Dev...@worldnet.att.net>
writes:
>Well, it's not really an opening cinema, it's ten minutes of little SD
>characters doing stuff. It's a flashback, actually. Anyway, what WD
>is doing is cutting out the anime ending which shows the stuff
>happening at the beginning, putting THAT at the beginning, and cutting
>out the ten minute intro.
The intro of Alundra shows scenes from the game(not SD characters),
some do give clues as to how to solve some puzzles in the game.
The ending is the flashback. It's an anime of what your character did
in the game, along with what happened afterwards.
WD is supposedly cutting half the ending out and putting it at the
beginning. I guess they like to have it seem like there is a lot of
anime in their games. I don't agree with the editing myself.
Henry LaPierre
fre...@ix.netcom.com
Victor Ireland
>Whaaa...?? What's this about cutting out Alundra's opening cinema??
Where
>did you hear this? Why might WD be doing this? If this is true, then
>forget WD, I'll just get the import. I accept no editing in my games.
"Cinema" is using the term VERY loosely. The opening is a long string of
Henry LaPierre
In <01bcac5f$798a2b20$3f6703d0@jer> "Jeremy Reaban" <j...@XXXinlink.com>
>Apparently, the ending is composed of gameplay scenes. So, they'd
>cutting that out, and using the ending for the begining. What they
>plan on using for the ending, I don't know. Maybe they are just
>cutting out parts of the ending and using it as the into?
The intro is gameplay scenes, the ending is an anime
Henry LaPierre
fre...@ix.netcom.com
>Kazenoyume <kazen...@aol.com> wrote in article
><19970818234...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
><snip>
SR Dominguez
: "Cinema" is using the term VERY loosely. The opening is a long string of
: Vic
What, like the Suikoden intro? Uuuhhr.
"Karma Police, arrest THIS MAN, --------> Simon Rafael Dominguez
He talks in maths and he buzzes u5...@keele.ac.uk
like a fridge."
- Radiohead, Karma Police
Henry LaPierre
In <5tbrd1$1ere$1...@newsxfs02-int.news.prodigy.com> SMR...@prodigy.com
(Victor Ireland) writes:
>"Cinema" is using the term VERY loosely. The opening is a long string
>of fuzzy gameplay clips that really don't do the game justice. We're
>rearranging some of the flashback anime (actual movies, as opposed to
>gameplay footage) from the rear of the game to the front and recutting
>it. The end result will be far better than the original, and won't
>contain "spoilers" like the current intro does.
Then just take the "spoilers" out if they bother you that much(I'd
rather it was left intact but it is your call). What do you think the
ending anime is? It's all the cool bosses in anime form, tell me seeing
them all like that before you actually fight them in the game isn't a
"spoiler". Also what good will an ending be that people have already
seen? You're not going to add extra never before seen anime to it where
the ending was, so what sense does seeing the same ending twice make?
Talk about spoiling the reward for a job well done.
Vic, please leave it be :)
Henry LaPierre
fre...@ix.netcom.com
Henry LaPierre
In <5te9kd$1gle$1...@newsxfs01-int.news.prodigy.com> SMR...@prodigy.com
(Victor Ireland) writes:
>We're actually ADDING a movie where now there is only a long series of
>gameplay clips that contain spoilers to the puzzles in the game. In
>fact, we may LEAVE the original clip in there and just put it in
>rotation with the new one.
>
>Don't Believe the Hype -
>Vic
You're adding the ending at the beginning :(
Henry LaPierre
fre...@ix.netcom.com
Charles Doane
Victor Ireland wrote:
>
> karr...@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ken Arromdee) wrote:
> >
> >"Jeremy Reaban" <j...@XXXinlink.com> wrote:
> >>I was also rather hoping that Sony would translate Alundra, because I
> hate
> >>WD's translations. I like the fact that they bring over games, but
> their
> >>translations are just terrible. I like jokes, but the ones WD make up
> are
> >>pretty weak, AND they rely on references to popular US culture. And
> >>they're cutting out most of Alundra's opening movie.
> >
> >
> >Vic, is this true?
>
> We're actually ADDING a movie where now there is only a long series of
> gameplay clips that contain spoilers to the puzzles in the game. In fact,
> we may LEAVE the original clip in there and just put it in rotation with
> the new one.
>
> Don't Believe the Hype -
> Vic
YES!!! DO that, it's exactly what I want to see! I want the original intro,
and you guys want to make your own for the game. It's a PERFECT compromise,
do it that way! You're happy, I'm happy, and I get to see everything Alundra
is supposed to be. Working Designs can change the intro, but if the original
intro is still available, who can complain?
Do that, and for pete's sake, get it out by Christmas, please?
Victor Ireland
PsychoKick
In article <5teapf$a...@sjx-ixn7.ix.netcom.com>, fre...@ix.netcom.co says...
>
>In <5te9kd$1gle$1...@newsxfs01-int.news.prodigy.com> SMR...@prodigy.com
>(Victor Ireland) writes:
>
>>gameplay clips that contain spoilers to the puzzles in the game. In
>>fact, we may LEAVE the original clip in there and just put it in
>>rotation with the new one.
>>
>>Don't Believe the Hype -
>>Vic
>
Eh? The wording of Vic's message says that the original movie contains
gameplay spoilers. It says nothing about the movie he plans to add.
--
********PsychoKick******** "You may be right, I may be crazy.
*Mad Animator in Training* But it just may be a lunatic
************************** you're looking for."
-Billy Joel
(You May Be Right)
PsychoKick
>In <5te9kd$1gle$1...@newsxfs01-int.news.prodigy.com> SMR...@prodigy.com
>(Victor Ireland) writes:
>
>>We're actually ADDING a movie where now there is only a long series of
>>gameplay clips that contain spoilers to the puzzles in the game. In
>>fact, we may LEAVE the original clip in there and just put it in
>>rotation with the new one.
>>
>>Don't Believe the Hype -
>>Vic
>
>>You're adding the ending at the beginning :(
>
Eh? The wording of Vic's message says that the original movie contains
gameplay spoilers. It says nothing about the movie he plans to add.
BTW Vic, what is the movie you're going to add? Where is it from, etc
etc?
PsychoKick
In article <5th3g6$h...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>, fre...@ix.netcom.co says...
>
>In <5tgkbp$c...@news1.panix.com> rlps...@aol.com (PsychoKick) writes:
>
>> Eh? The wording of Vic's message says that the original movie
>>contains gameplay spoilers. It says nothing about the movie he plans
>>to add.
>
>you read them before you respond to them? What part of "they are
>putting sections of the ending at the beginning" don't you understand?
>What do you think I just made that up?
Geez! Whoa! Put that gun down, cowboy! Can't a guy enter a thread
without having to jump to DejaNews and read every single preceding message
that already expired on the newserver? I just wanted to be brought up to date
on what was happening. I said NOTHING about you making stuff up and whatnot.
From the message that you were responding to (and the message that I read),
there was nothing about the content of the video Vic was planning to add.
That's why I also asked what the actual video was.
If you weren't so fast to shoot at me, you'd discover that after
finding what the video in question is, I'm inclined to agree with your
viewpoint (ie: putting ending segments into the opening isn't a good idea).
Be civil, because it's too much trouble to be rude.
--
********PsychoKick******** "I don't like to fling mud. You
*Mad Animator in Training* get dirt on your hands and you
************************** lose a lot of ground."
-Ravi Zacherias
Henry LaPierre
> Geez! Whoa! Put that gun down, cowboy! Can't a guy enter a thread
>without having to jump to DejaNews and read every single preceding
>message that already expired on the newserver?
First off I'm not a cowboy :D
Secondly, that wasn't the first post you responded to, it was the
second. In the first I told you what they were doing, but you seem to
have ignored the answer and asked the same question again. That is what
brought up the check the facts first thing.
>I just wanted to be brought up to date on what was happening. I said
>NOTHING about you making stuff up and whatnot.
No not exactly, but you responded to my telling what they were doing by
saying Vic hadn't said anything. I'm sure Vic doesn't want to come out
and say the word "ending" in this case, as it's ridiculous that they
are doing what they are. He's using words like "movie" so people don't
get in an uproar most likely.
>From the message that you were responding to (and the message that I
>read), there was nothing about the content of the video Vic was
>planning to add. That's why I also asked what the actual video was.
As before, he's being vague so people don't swamp him with complaints
> If you weren't so fast to shoot at me, you'd discover that after
>finding what the video in question is, I'm inclined to agree with your
>viewpoint (ie: putting ending segments into the opening isn't a good
>idea).
> Be civil, because it's too much trouble to be rude.
I wasn't trying to be rude, but if you look at your second post, you
completely ignore what I wrote and ask the same question(which is what
I had already answered). That kind of irked me. Sorry for the
nastiness, I guess Working designs just makes me mad sometimes :D
If anyone is curious, the real opening gives away 4 steps about getting
through the hundreds of rooms in the numerous dungeons of the game. It
does show numerous bosses, but if the ending is ok to show, then bosses
isn't what Vic is refering to as spoilers. All else is just random
gameplay that gives away nothing(swinging swords, running, walking,
fighting). 4 partial room solves is not enough to warrant hacking the
ending into the intro in my opinion. As I've said before, take the
"spoiler" clips out if need be, but you don't need to move the ending.
Henry(not a cowboy) LaPierre
fre...@ix.netcom.com
PsychoKick
In article <5tj269$6...@sjx-ixn7.ix.netcom.com>, fre...@ix.netcom.co says...
>
>In <5tibek$e...@news1.panix.com> rlps...@aol.com (PsychoKick) writes:
>
>> Geez! Whoa! Put that gun down, cowboy! Can't a guy enter a thread
>>without having to jump to DejaNews and read every single preceding
>>message that already expired on the newserver?
>
>First off I'm not a cowboy :D
>Secondly, that wasn't the first post you responded to, it was the
>second. In the first I told you what they were doing, but you seem to
>have ignored the answer and asked the same question again. That is what
>brought up the check the facts first thing.
[rest snipped]
To the best of my knowledge, I only posted one message in this thread
before your reply. If I did post more than that, then honestly speaking I've
forgotten about it, and I apologize for any inconvenience or whatnot I may have
caused. I meant no ill will towards you or anyone else.
Okay, now let's get back to talking about Alundra...
dOOT
Actually MKR is a TV series, there is a OVA series but when that was
made the name of was changed to "Rayearth". The game was based on the TV
series since the OVA hadn't yet come out. I really hope that the intro
doesn't change at all to this game. From what I hear it uses the TV
opening with the same song! If it was to change I would have to buy the
import. It is bad enough having to get used to a new set of VA's but a
new opening or even worse a new SONG would be too much. Does anyone have
any info about the MKR opening?
jer...@suba.com wrote:
> MKR has been in limbo for so long because of the legalities in using the
> original Japanese OVA names. That's been resolved for some time now,
> however, and I was a bit alarmed to hear it isn't even close to being
> completed. Still has an October release date, but I could see it getting
> pushed back to December or even January, which does not bode well for
> Lunar getting released any time soon.
> Jeremy
> jer...@suba.com
>
> -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Speed
On Sun, 17 Aug 1997 16:58:40 GMT, ten...@airmail.net (Jeff Slipko)
wrote:
>Now that rumors have been circulating around about Lunar:TSSS release
>date pushed back for the mediocre Alundra I can finally say I am
>PLEASED that WD is leaving the Saturn. They have done nothing
>spectacular for us Saturn owners and the only things they have given
>us are headaches from all their delays. WD should know why Sega put
>them in the corner at E3: Sega gives the premium spots to companies
>who RELEASE games and doesn't give everyone empty promises. I am
>disgusted by them. I hope they fail with Sony.
>
I agree with you, they used to be a great company, but then everyone
started praising them like god when they translated the sega CD games.
they got a huge ego and thought they could take on sega by publicly
bashing them. I agree sega of america isn't the greatest company but
they still have the best games of any company, even square in my
opinion. WD should start realizing that they're not a console giant
and if they left someone else would fill their place. Sega is already
translating Grandia which is far better that any WD game so far. I'm
not an expert on these things but WD has screwed up and I'm not going
to buy any WD games any more, for any system.
-Pete
Joe Ottoson
In article
<16F401B9C56196D3.AB23032A...@library-proxy.airnews.net>,
ten...@airmail.net wrote:
> >I agree, don't believe the hype, play the games.
> >
> >Has Vic _ever_ said the release dates are 100% guaranteed? Nope.
> >
> >Funny thing is, I never, ever hear about delays other companies have.
>
> Want to know why that is Mr. Nathan? It is because they are not near
> as excessive as WD's.
No, they just aren't announced.
> Sega may delay a game for a week.
Try several weeks to a few months or more (FMM, PD2, STHA, Sonic Jam,
GATD, etc etc etc)
>I just want MKRE and Lunar, but it is getting some damn
> frusterating seeing them delay Lunar for Alundra.
You've seen nothing to prove this, and I think you'll feel pretty silly
when Alundra's date starts backsliding as well...
Release dates are
> never 100% garanteed. But they shouldn't be months to years off.
Why's Alundra immune when no other WD game has been so far?
Reviewer for Gamers Island
Flappuccino
On Wed, 27 Aug 1997, Jeff Slipko wrote:
> Want to know why that is Mr. Nathan? It is because they are not near
> other hand WD streches their delays from 6-18 months. That is why we
> complain. I just want MKRE and Lunar, but it is getting some damn
> frusterating seeing them delay Lunar for Alundra. Release dates are
> never 100% garanteed. But they shouldn't be months to years off.
Bomberman, Last Bronx, Fighters Megamix, etc etc.....a week? BAH!
==============================================================================
THE FLAPPER!!!!!!!
==============================================================================
"All green of skin...800 centuries || "No Elvis is not dead, he's just
ago...their bodily fluids included || gone home" -"K", (Men In Black)
the birth of half-breeds...dark is ||====================================
the suede that mows like a harvest" || "....an evil petting zoo?"
-Martian Ambassador, (Mars Attacks!)|| -Dr.Evil, (Austin Powers)
==============================================================================
ERICLOB
Victor Ireland <SMR...@prodigy.com> wrote:
>Granted, we would have liked to get them out on time, but the bigger the
>project, the bigger the headaches. 11th Hour on PC was delayed 2 YEARS
>on PC, DaggerFall was a similar delay, and there are scores of others.
>Long delays DO happen, and I bet that in every case, the publisher did
>not INTEND to mislead the public. Things just happen that are unexpected,
> and adjustments have to be made.
I think you should take the criticism over delays and your stopping new
development on Saturn as something of a compliment. These games are
something people care(d) about and so was/is your company. People feel
hurt because they viewed WD differently from the profit-first companies.
To pave the way for a new console launch next year though, SoA is making
new Saturn development a poor business decision here and that's a shame
since in spite of the delays WD does an excellent job.
>The intent of my original reply to a previous post was to give VALUABLE
>information that had nothing to do with OUR products. But, YOU seem
>quite content to twist it and wrangle it into another anti-WD tirade. I
>really can do without that, as I suspect that others here are interested
>in the fate of Grandia and would appreciate as much *actual*, accurate
>information as possible. Try to control yourself, ok?
And this is very valuable information. Alot of people think that SoA will
automatically pick this (of Shining Force III, or whatever) up since they
are the only one left but this isn't a given. STHA selling so well is a
good first step, but Grandia will require *alot* more work to translate
and people need to remind SoA that they want to see it here.
Mike S Reynolds
In article <5u0i6h$19d4$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>,
Victor Ireland <SMR...@prodigy.com> wrote:
>SEGA *may* also just rip out sections of game, figuring they are too
>"Japanese" to port (read:time-consuming and expensive), like the GREAT
>rock song in the animation for Dark Savior near the end of Parallel II
>(replaced with a terrible, generic guitar solo for the US),
Big deal. I suppose you would have delayed it a year to keep it in (sarcasm
intended). IMO that's a very minor thing. I'm just going to throw a fit if
I don't get the original Rayearth title screen now.
> the "Extras"
>of Last Bronx, etc, etc, etc.
Umm, the "extras" in LB *are* too Japanese for the American market. And
most of the useful stuff on that CD is getting moved to the other one.
>[snip]
>Granted, we would have liked to get them out on time, but the bigger the
>project, the bigger the headaches. 11th Hour on PC was delayed 2 YEARS
>on PC, DaggerFall was a similar delay, and there are scores of others.
>Long delays DO happen, and I bet that in every case, the publisher did
>not INTEND to mislead the public. Things just happen that are unexpected,
> and adjustments have to be made.
*BIG* difference here. 11th hour and Daggerfall were being programmed and
designed from the ground up. WD is just doing ports.
>The intent of my original reply to a previous post was to give VALUABLE
>information that had nothing to do with OUR products. But, YOU seem
>quite content to twist it and wrangle it into another anti-WD tirade. I
>really can do without that, as I suspect that others here are interested
>in the fate of Grandia and would appreciate as much *actual*, accurate
>information as possible. Try to control yourself, ok?
Agreed here, please keep us informed if you have any more info. And port
Langrisser 1&2 for PS!!!!
Mike Reynolds
Jeff Slipko
>Yet somehow you think Alundra will be immune eh? Get off your
>fearmongering and Wrongful Demonization and realize that *DELAYS HAPPEN*
I hope Alundra is immuned because if it isn't we may see Lunar in late
'98. Delays do happen, but WD takes long to port games then to
actually make them.
Jeremy Reaban
<GG> What other companies make Saturn games?
Seriously, SoA, while delaying things for bizarre marketing reasons
(Bomberman, FMM, etc), doesn't screw up release dates. STHA came out on
time. So did Dark Saviour. Sonic Jam was a little late, but I think that
was delayed so they could ship it with Sky Target and Bomberman (why, I
don't know).
Capcom, about the only other real Saturn game maker, isn't exactly speedy.
But, most of the delay is in the title itself, not the translation.
And to take Atlus, the company closest to WD. They put out games right
around the annnouced release date. Ogre Battle - original date 7/15 - it
shipped a couple weeks later. Persona - it made the original date. So did
most their other (admittedly forgettable) games. The only real bad one was
Devil Summoner, which ended up being canned.
In WDs case, it's just really annoying because MKR has been delayed
forever. And now, with the announcement of Alundra, the mention of more PSX
projects, just by strange coincidence coinciding with the delay of L:SSS,
it makes you think.
nathan stehle <ste...@aries.scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in article
<snip>
Victor Ireland
ten...@airmail.net (Jeff Slipko) wrote:
>
>>I agree, don't believe the hype, play the games.
>>
>>Has Vic _ever_ said the release dates are 100% guaranteed? Nope.
>>
>
>as excessive as WD's. Sega may delay a game for a week. But on the
>other hand WD streches their delays from 6-18 months.
SEGA *may* also just rip out sections of game, figuring they are too
"Japanese" to port (read:time-consuming and expensive), like the GREAT
rock song in the animation for Dark Savior near the end of Parallel II
(replaced with a terrible, generic guitar solo for the US), the "Extras"
of Last Bronx, etc, etc, etc. Also, our "typical" delay is 4-6 months.
18 months is ONE game, Rayearth (because of the well-documented wrangling
over character names). LUNAR:SSS is about 12. So, of the 14 games we've
done, TWO, yes, TWO were delayed much more than 6 months. 15%.
Granted, we would have liked to get them out on time, but the bigger the
project, the bigger the headaches. 11th Hour on PC was delayed 2 YEARS
on PC, DaggerFall was a similar delay, and there are scores of others.
Long delays DO happen, and I bet that in every case, the publisher did
not INTEND to mislead the public. Things just happen that are unexpected,
and adjustments have to be made.
The intent of my original reply to a previous post was to give VALUABLE
information that had nothing to do with OUR products. But, YOU seem
quite content to twist it and wrangle it into another anti-WD tirade. I
really can do without that, as I suspect that others here are interested
in the fate of Grandia and would appreciate as much *actual*, accurate
information as possible. Try to control yourself, ok?
Don't Believe the Hype -
- Vic
nathan stehle
"Jeremy Reaban" <j...@XXXinlink.com> writes:
><GG> What other companies make Saturn games?
>Seriously, SoA, while delaying things for bizarre marketing reasons
>(Bomberman, FMM, etc), doesn't screw up release dates. STHA came out on
>time. So did Dark Saviour. Sonic Jam was a little late, but I think that
>was delayed so they could ship it with Sky Target and Bomberman (why, I
>don't know).
>Capcom, about the only other real Saturn game maker, isn't exactly speedy.
>But, most of the delay is in the title itself, not the translation.
>And to take Atlus, the company closest to WD. They put out games right
>around the annnouced release date. Ogre Battle - original date 7/15 - it
>shipped a couple weeks later. Persona - it made the original date. So did
>most their other (admittedly forgettable) games. The only real bad one was
>Devil Summoner, which ended up being canned.
OK, but how many games have they released? Esp. compared to WD... I think
WD's numbers are greater. But, I could be wrong.
--
Nathan Stehle
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Early to bed and early to rise, makes a man stupid and blind in the eyes."
Mazer Rackham in Orson Scott Card's "Ender's Game"
Fran Kan
Mike S Reynolds wrote:
>
> *BIG* difference here. 11th hour and Daggerfall were being programmed and
> designed from the ground up. WD is just doing ports.
Personally, sometimes i think porting is even harder than desgined from
the
ground up, in the aspect of doing scheduling for the time spent. And
from
what i understand, WD do more than just "translating", i.e. replacing
japanese text with english text. Even that might involve a lot of
programing, with japanese text, every characters take exact same space.
But in english, to make it look good, each character will probably take
different space, for example, 'W' will appear wider than 'i', etc.
I'm not sure the amount of works WD put in but i believed they probably
do this. Also, WD had been adding in more features and improve the
games,
like loading time in Albert Odessy. And this might take unexpected
amount of time
> Agreed here, please keep us informed if you have any more info. And port
> Langrisser 1&2 for PS!!!!
I would really want to see Langrisser in English too!!!
Fran
Mike S Reynolds
In article <5u289p$c26$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
nathan stehle <ste...@aries.scs.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>OK, but how many games have they released? Esp. compared to WD... I think
>WD's numbers are greater. But, I could be wrong.
WD has released what, 4 32-bit games? Atlus has released at least 2 more than
that, Persona, Ogre Battle, Virtual Hydlide, that racing game for
Saturn, Mansion of hidden souls, Lunacy. There's probably quite a few that
I'm forgetting... The quality of the games is not up to par except for
Devil Summoner and OB but in terms of quantity they are probably well ahead
of WD. So it comes down to how long you're willing to wait for a better
translation. If it's a month or so, I'll take a WD game anyday.
Unfortunately it's usually significantly longer than that, and IMO not
worth the wait.
Mike Reynolds
Marty Chinn
Victor Ireland (SMR...@prodigy.com) wrote:
: Actually, I also thought of a few other LONG delayed console games.
: Heart of Darkness, anyone? This one is "just" a port from PC to Saturn,
: but has been in limbo for nearly 4 YEARS and development for SIX.
Well considering Heart of Darkness was never even finished on the PC, I
would think it would be hard to port it to the Saturn. Heart of Darkness
to my knowledge has been canceled anyways, and the reason behind it is
money. The team simply ran out of money, couldn't continue it so they
sold it. And from there its been passed aroudn to different development
teams. Another example of a game that wasn't done. You're working with a
finished product....
: Don't Believe the Hype -
: Vic
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marty Chinn ** Tokyo Game Show - Sept. 5 - 7, 1997 **
Video Source PlayStation, Nintendo 64, Saturn, Imports
973 Foxglove Dr. M-F: 9:30-6:00, Sa: 10:00-3:00 PST, Sun: Closed
Sunnyvale, CA 94086 Ordering, and Preordering info at:
<408> 720-8575 Voice E-Mail: vids...@netcom.com
<408> 720-8576 FAX WWW : http://www.video-source.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Victor Ireland
> And somewhere one of the saturn
>"news" sites said that you and SoA fought over the rights for Grandia.
We were, until Grandia slipped from late'96 release to late '97, and the
Saturn market went way south.
>All your release dates are misinformation.
They are an ever changing best-guess of when they product will be on
shelves.
DBTH - Vic
Fran Kan
Victor Ireland wrote:
>
> Actually, I also thought of a few other LONG delayed console games.
> Heart of Darkness, anyone? This one is "just" a port from PC to Saturn,
> but has been in limbo for nearly 4 YEARS and development for SIX.
>
> Vic
One thing i keep puzzling is why people keep complaining so much about
WD's titles and not the other ones? Spawn is delayed from August 97
and Novemenber 97. how about Jurassic Park - the Lost World? the movie
is probably off the big screen but there still no game for it yet. I
have
a coupon that only good until 7/31/97 for it, hmmm.... is Batman &
Robin
supposed to come out as the movie launch?
How come nobody talk about them at all? Is it because the games that
WD bringing out are good enough that people really anxious to play?
or are people just try to make WD look bad?
Look at the software giant Microsoft, Win95 in November 95 (that's kinda
pushing the 95) and there is supposed to be Win97 and i haven't heard
much.
Face it, I'm sure WD does not think like 'Hmm... how can i screw
our fan? another delay? sounds good.' If you want me to find one
mistake for WD, i would say they sometime try to hard to make everything
perfect. But it's well worth it(the wait), at least for me.
Fran
Mike S Reynolds
In article <3405B6...@oakland.edu>, Fran Kan <ws...@oakland.edu> wrote:
>
>Personally, sometimes i think porting is even harder than desgined from
>the
>ground up, in the aspect of doing scheduling for the time spent. And
>from
>what i understand, WD do more than just "translating", i.e. replacing
>japanese text with english text. Even that might involve a lot of
>programing, with japanese text, every characters take exact same space.
>But in english, to make it look good, each character will probably take
>different space, for example, 'W' will appear wider than 'i', etc.
>I'm not sure the amount of works WD put in but i believed they probably
>do this.
I'm not a video game programmer but I've done enough programming to know
that this would be a simple task compared to coding and debugging a
graphics engine, a sound engine, game engine, doing all the art, writing
all the music, etc., etc. And these tasks would probably be much harder
to schedule than changing the text display because you are coordinating
among a bunch of different people and certain things must be completed
before others can begin. Vic is comparing apples to oranges.
>[snip]
>
>I would really want to see Langrisser in English too!!!
Most of the rpg fans would but I'm not getting my hopes up. Besides,
even if by some miracle somebody does pick up Langrisser 1&2 the insanely
awesome Langrisser 4 will never make it over here :(
Mike Reynolds
Victor Ireland
>I don't find it invalid, but rather unjustified. Do you really think
anyone
>cares that much about the names? You delayed a game for 2 years to
please a
>*very* small portion of your audience, when in fact that portion of your
>fanbase, the anime purists, will probably still be disappointed in the
game
>because you're changing the title screen and theme song, dubbing the
anime,
>and probably totally revamping the Japanese writing. So what is the
point of
>keeping the names? You could have called them Larry, Curly, and Moe and
>most of your fans would rather have had the game like that than wait
two
>years.
Names were just part of the issue, but a major part. and, it wasn't like
we had a choice of names. We were going to be forced to use Luce,
Anemone, and Marine, basically to provide a teaser for the poorly dubbed
anime series they were trying to sell here. Bleech. It's not like we did
nothing while fighting the Rayearth thing. We released Shining Wisdom,
Iron Storm, Dragon Force, Albert Odyssey, and soon SEGA AGES in the
interim.
>There was a *huge* petition going around the
>net by the Lunar fans begging you not to cancel Lunar EB for Saturn but
>AFAIK it meant nothing to you.
It meant a *lot* to me, but the point is that the business reality is
that IF we spent the dough to do that title for the Saturn, it would be
the LAST LUNAR ever, because it would break us financially. I feel that
secure continuation of the series is far more important than console
loyalty at all costs, especially if it isn't appreciated anyway.
> I hope that eventually you'll realize that
>Lunar is the game that made you guys what you are today.
When did we ever say anything to the contrary?
DBTH - Vic
DBTH - Vic
Henry LaPierre
In <5ucrh4$mgo$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com> SMR...@prodigy.com
(Victor Ireland) writes:
>Names were just part of the issue, but a major part. and, it wasn't
>like we had a choice of names. We were going to be forced to use
>Luce, Anemone, and Marine, basically to provide a teaser for the
>poorly dubbed anime series they were trying to sell here. Bleech.
Gee this sounds exactly like why I don't play WD games. Because only
one English version of the game comes out, if WD does it, I am forced
to play a(IMO) poorly translated(due to the, again IMO, inappropriate
humor) version of the game. Bleech
>>There was a *huge* petition going around the net by the Lunar fans
>>begging you not to cancel Lunar EB for Saturn but AFAIK it meant
>>nothing to you.
>
>It meant a *lot* to me, but the point is that the business reality is
>that IF we spent the dough to do that title for the Saturn, it would
>be the LAST LUNAR ever, because it would break us financially. I feel
>that secure continuation of the series is far more important than
>console loyalty at all costs, especially if it isn't appreciated
>anyway.
Now this makes no sense. What does the first comment have to do with
system loyalty? You can do all the PSX games you want to gain profit,
but why not do Lunar 2 also? You made the decision to stop Saturn
development. Was the real reason not that you were pissed at Sega, but
that to do another title would financially break the company? If the
Saturn user base is so small that it can't support what would
apparently be your company's most wanted title, why even bother with
MKR or any others?
Henry LaPierre
fre...@ix.netcom.com
>DBTH - Vic
>
>
j...@inlink.com
Er, wait a minute, this doesn't make sense. Right now, the Saturn user
base in the US is the largest it's ever been. People aren't throwing away
their Saturns or blowing them up. And they keep selling more of them..
So, if you made Lunar EB , why would you lose money on it? If anything,
it should do better than your previous titles, because there are more
Saturn owners. And you have less competition.
On the PSX, you have to go up against Square, Atlus, ASCII, Capcom,
Konami, and Sony itself.. Frankly, with the possible titles available to
you on the PSX, you can't compete. (Actually, whose games are you going
to bring over? Sony's? Besides Alundra, most aren't very good)
Saturn may be losing market share, but, it's not losing user base. That's
pretty much impossible, unless, like I said, people started throwing away
their Saturns.
Finally, didn't you do games for the Sega CD after it was cancelled?
Surely you still made money, plus, don't you already have the translation
(or most of it) of Lunar EB?
If there is a reason you pulled the plug on Lunar:EB, it's not financial.
If you're so pissed off at SoA that you want to alienate your fans (and
customers), it's your right (your company after all). But, don't expect
us to like it, and don't expect us to buy WD products in the future, or
at least, not with as much feverance as before....
In article <5ucrh4$mgo$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>,
SMR...@prodigy.com (Victor Ireland) wrote:
<snip>
>
> It meant a *lot* to me, but the point is that the business reality is
> that IF we spent the dough to do that title for the Saturn, it would be
> the LAST LUNAR ever, because it would break us financially. I feel that
> secure continuation of the series is far more important than console
> loyalty at all costs, especially if it isn't appreciated anyway.
>
> > I hope that eventually you'll realize that
> >Lunar is the game that made you guys what you are today.
>
> When did we ever say anything to the contrary?
>
> DBTH - Vic
>
> DBTH - Vic
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
Teh Kao Yang
In article <8730952...@dejanews.com>, <j...@inlink.com> wrote:
>Er, wait a minute, this doesn't make sense. Right now, the Saturn user
>base in the US is the largest it's ever been. People aren't throwing away
>their Saturns or blowing them up. And they keep selling more of them..
>
>So, if you made Lunar EB , why would you lose money on it? If anything,
>it should do better than your previous titles, because there are more
>Saturn owners. And you have less competition.
Come on people!!!! Stop this endless whining about Lunar EB!! Listen,
Lunar EB is not even out in Japan yet! I have no idea when it's gooing
to come out (it currently has an unknown release date listed in Japan)
, and if you consider the time it takes for WD to translate
it .... by that time the Saturn will be dead, ok? So when WD says they're
not brining out Lunar EB, it's just out o fplain business sense. By that
time they could be working on Dural games!
Sheesh I've neber seen people so fanatical about one game... and it's
a remake, not even an original game!
-TK
Victor Ireland
>Lunar EB is not even out in Japan yet! I have no idea when it's gooing
>to come out (it currently has an unknown release date listed in Japan)
Last I was told, ESP was looking at a Spring/Summer '98 release. But,
those dates tend to slip as well... :)
Victor Ireland
>Now this makes no sense. What does the first comment have to do with
>system loyalty? You can do all the PSX games you want to gain profit,
>but why not do Lunar 2 also? You made the decision to stop Saturn
>development. Was the real reason not that you were pissed at Sega, but
>that to do another title would financially break the company? If the
>Saturn user base is so small that it can't support what would
>apparently be your company's most wanted title, why even bother with
>MKR or any others?
Exactly. We will most-likely break even or lose money on MKR. We're
doing it because it deserves to be seen after all this time, and as a
thank-you for our fans. We did this with LUNAR:Eternal Blue on SEGA CD.
We KNEW we'd lose money on it, releasing it nearly 6 months after SEGA
officially canned the SEGA CD production. But, the game needed to be
seen, and we felt our fans deserved it.
However, we are NOT a charity. If we don't make money on most of our
products, we cease to exist. To continue publishing Saturn titles past
this year, knowing most or all will lose money, and knowing that SoA
doesn't even appreciate our efforts in the RPG market anyway is idiotic.
>You made the decision to stop Saturn
>development. Was the real reason not that you were pissed at Sega, but
>that to do another title would financially break the company?
One of the things we found out at the show first hand was that a major
retailer (one of the top 3) had decided to reduce opening Saturn orders
from thousands of pieces to only 240! That's right, two HUNDRED forty.
Such is the confidence of the retail sector. We heard it over and over,
and it cemented the decision we knew was coming. That we would have to
leave Saturn completely.
Anyway, I know I'm rowing upstream amongst those convinced of our
inherent evil now that we're supporting Playstation, but we wouldn't have
announced our departure from Saturn if there was ANY, I mean ANY way to
stay and remain in business...
Dwhyna Jennings
In article <5udpr2$3...@crl.crl.com>,
teh...@crl.crl.com (Teh Kao Yang) wrote:
>
> Come on people!!!! Stop this endless whining about Lunar EB!! Listen,
> to come out (it currently has an unknown release date listed in Japan)
> it .... by that time the Saturn will be dead, ok? So when WD says they're
> not brining out Lunar EB, it's just out o fplain business sense. By that
> time they could be working on Dural games!
>
> Sheesh I've neber seen people so fanatical about one game... and it's
> a remake, not even an original game!
>
> -TK
That is because the original was an incredibly well done RPG, and the
Saturn remakes improve on them a thousand-fold. Just play the remake of
The Silver Star Story (Lunar 1) if you don't believe me. Lunar; Eternal
Blue would easily be one of the most eagerly anticipated and
well-recieved games ever put out for the Saturn, just as you have seen
and are getting all uptight about. And no one can doubt that it would not
make everyone's Top Ten sales lists.
I have played both the imports of Final Fantasy VII and Lunar; Silver
Star Story and I can *honestly* say, and I mean that, that Lunar is leaps
and bounds above FF7. The remake is simply incredible, with added little
bonuses for Lunar fans built into the game.
I bought and already finished Lunar; SSS back in February, for several
reasons;
1) We all know how Working Delays...err, sorry, Working Designs likes to
delay true RPG's *FOREVER*!
2) Working Delays is getting worse and worse about cutting and editing
games, and is getting horrible about putting in so much humor and
jabs against anyone or anything who they don't like that it is
starting to destroy the original storyline and the intensity of the
RPG's that they mangle. Albert Odyssey is a good example of the latter.
3) WD is removing the original intro to Lunar; SSS, which is a direct and
very touching scene specifically aimed for fans of the original Lunar.
The Lunar series is my all-time favorite RPG series, and I do thank
Working Delays for bringing them over - domo arigotto gozaimasu yo! - but
with the incredibly long delays they are now well-known for, and the way
they butcher their latest endeavors and turn everything into a comedic
farce has left a very bad taste in my mouth. I am really, honestly quite
scared of what they are going to do with Magic Knight Rayearth and Lunar.
All of these delays means more chances for WD to strip, edit, and ruin
otherwise incredible games. That is what I do honestly believe.
Dwhyna
Dwhyna Jennings
In article <5udt3b$gte$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>,
SMR...@prodigy.com (Victor Ireland) wrote:
>
> Exactly. We will most-likely break even or lose money on MKR. We're
> doing it because it deserves to be seen after all this time, and as a
> thank-you for our fans. We did this with LUNAR:Eternal Blue on SEGA CD.
> We KNEW we'd lose money on it, releasing it nearly 6 months after SEGA
> officially canned the SEGA CD production. But, the game needed to be
> seen, and we felt our fans deserved it.
>
> However, we are NOT a charity. If we don't make money on most of our
> products, we cease to exist. To continue publishing Saturn titles past
> this year, knowing most or all will lose money, and knowing that SoA
> doesn't even appreciate our efforts in the RPG market anyway is idiotic.
>
> inherent evil now that we're supporting Playstation, but we wouldn't have
> announced our departure from Saturn if there was ANY, I mean ANY way to
> stay and remain in business...
>
> Don't Believe the Hype -
> Vic
Mr. Ireland, you share part of the blame in this. When the Saturn was
first announced it was declared by everyone to be the "system of choice
for RPG'ers". Most of this attributed almost exclusively to your
company's works and dedication to Sega. If anyone ran a poll they would
most likely find that a very large percentage of Saturn owners bought
their Saturn in anticipation of those great RPG's and the mere fact that
Sega had Working Designs in their corner. Your games are among the
best-selling and most anticipated games for the Saturn. If Working
Designs had been commited to bringing out their promised games *ON TIME*
and we already had MKR and Lunar with a promise of Grandia for Christmas
and Eternal Blue next year then Sega would be in a much greater
prominance with a much greater user base - all thanks to Working Designs.
But you dropped the ball. Sega has suffered, and we, your fans, suffer,
and now lose because of it. To blame others for your own lack of effort
does not speak of Sega's incompetence - it speaks of your own. You can
say that Sega let down its consumers and fans - but the truth is, they
and we, depended on you just as much, and you have no room to talk about
Sega with your own track record. I am not trying to be mean or hateful.
But let's not hide the truth in the matter. If Working Designs had been
more committed to bringing out its games then everything would have been
much more rosier for both Sega and WD. You both share the blame for
losing our support.
Dragonmaster X
Victor Ireland wrote:
>
> >Lunar EB is not even out in Japan yet! I have no idea when it's gooing
> >to come out (it currently has an unknown release date listed in Japan)
>
> those dates tend to slip as well... :)
>
> Vic
Cosidering WD can take anywhere from 6 months to over a year to
translate a game, the earliest we can expect to see Lunar: EB remix if
WD did pick it up is sometime in 1999, I doubt even Sega will realease
a Saturn game after 1998. I always though that Lunar petition going
around the net was off it's rocker.
-DMX
Visit my 32-bit RPG page
http://home.earthlink.net/~alatorre
Dwhyna Jennings
In article <5ucrh4$mgo$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>,
SMR...@prodigy.com (Victor Ireland) wrote:
> > I hope that eventually you'll realize that
> >Lunar is the game that made you guys what you are today.
>
> When did we ever say anything to the contrary?
>
> DBTH - Vic
You say it with every delay you put on it. Lunar is your company's
flagship game. It is what made you the force and contender that you are
today, yet you treat the remake as an unwanted stepchild. Lunar should
have had WD's utmost priority. If anything as dutiful homage to the game
that has brought so much to your company. Everything else should have
been secondary. But what is obvious is that Lunar is really secondary to
everything else in your eyes - as are the fans and the people who also
put your company where it is today - or should I say *was* at one time.
You should be ashamed of yourself for what you have done with Lunar and
your fans.
Speed
On 1 Sep 1997 00:11:30 -0700, teh...@crl.crl.com (Teh Kao Yang)
wrote:
>Come on people!!!! Stop this endless whining about Lunar EB!! Listen,
>Lunar EB is not even out in Japan yet! I have no idea when it's gooing
>to come out (it currently has an unknown release date listed in Japan)
>, and if you consider the time it takes for WD to translate
>it .... by that time the Saturn will be dead, ok? So when WD says they're
>not brining out Lunar EB, it's just out o fplain business sense. By that
>time they could be working on Dural games!
>
>Sheesh I've neber seen people so fanatical about one game... and it's
>a remake, not even an original game!
have you ever played any Lunar? If you have you'd know what we mean.
Lunar is the best RPG ever, and a remake is just as good as a new one
to us. I just hope Lunar on dural isn't 3D.
-Pete
Tony Francis
Message for Victor Ireland:
I understand what you are saying about no longer publishing for the
Saturn. It's just not financially viable for your company anymore. But
I was wondering if you could clear something up for me. Does your
relationship with Sega end with the Saturn or is their a possibility
that WD will publish for the Dural?
Tony Francis
Henry LaPierre
In <5udt3b$gte$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com> SMR...@prodigy.com
(Victor Ireland) writes:
>>You made the decision to stop Saturn
>>development. Was the real reason not that you were pissed at Sega,
>>but that to do another title would financially break the company?
>One of the things we found out at the show first hand was that a major
>retailer (one of the top 3) had decided to reduce opening Saturn
>orders from thousands of pieces to only 240! That's right, two
>HUNDRED forty. Such is the confidence of the retail sector. We heard
>it over and over, and it cemented the decision we knew was coming.
>That we would have to leave Saturn completely.
There's no shame in that. At least not in my eyes. You tried to work
with the Saturn and due to financial problems it just isn't feesable
anymore. But why not come out right away and say what you say above? My
problem was that you made it seem as though the Sega giving you the bad
spot was the major factor. In my eyes that looks like you were trying
to shift the blame to Sega so the fans wouldn't be mad at you. I don't
think that anyone would blame you if the above comment was stated right
off the bat. You have to pay bills and put food in your mouth just like
the rest of us. But please don't take us for fools, you've gotten a
pretty bad rep from all the rumours that are about. Wouldn't the
truth(not this, last straw stuff) have been better all along? There's
nothing wrong with wanting to make a profit, but the excuses you've
given have left many of your fans feeling betrayed.
>Anyway, I know I'm rowing upstream amongst those convinced of our
>inherent evil now that we're supporting Playstation, but we wouldn't
>have announced our departure from Saturn if there was ANY, I mean ANY
>way to stay and remain in business...
I don't think you're evil, I just don't like the humor in the games.
That's just a personal preferance. I follow the threads about you
because my girlfriend likes the Lunar games, and I'm concerned about
Alundra ;)
Henry LaPierre
fre...@ix.netcom.com
Dwhyna Jennings
In article <5u0i6h$19d4$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>,
SMR...@prodigy.com (Victor Ireland) wrote:
> Granted, we would have liked to get them out on time, but the bigger the
> project, the bigger the headaches. 11th Hour on PC was delayed 2 YEARS
> on PC, DaggerFall was a similar delay, and there are scores of others.
> Long delays DO happen, and I bet that in every case, the publisher did
> not INTEND to mislead the public. Things just happen that are unexpected,
> and adjustments have to be made.
>
That was a very bad example; saying that it is taking the same amount
of time to *translate* Lunar and MKR as it did to create from the ground
up such huge games as DaggerFall... Especially since MKR and Lunar are
still to this day under constant delays with no real end in sight.
And how can you sit there and honestly say that Alundra will be
released this Christmas with your other RPG's delayed for years now? This
is not deliberate misleading? Do you honestly think that anyone believes
any release date coming out of your mouth with your history? Unless
Alundra is simply an action arcade game disguised as an RPG like Shining
Wisdom was, everyone knows that there is not a chance in the world of it
emerging from it's soon to occur delay cycles until late next year...at
the very earliest. Please, I am not meaning to sound hateful - but
really, sometimes you should listen to yourself...
Dwhyna Jennings
In article <5u78pg$m88$1...@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu>,
m...@cs.buffalo.edu (Mike S Reynolds) wrote:
>
> >I would really want to see Langrisser in English too!!!
>
> Most of the rpg fans would but I'm not getting my hopes up. Besides,
> even if by some miracle somebody does pick up Langrisser 1&2 the insanely
> awesome Langrisser 4 will never make it over here :(
>
We would be feeling the same if Working Delays got a hold of it. It
would take them a year later to even announce the initial release date,
and then since it is a true RPG it will make MKR and Lunar's delay cycle
pale in comparison. The '4' in Langrisser 4 would stand for the
anniversary date of the end of it's delay cycle...we would hope...
Just like we're hoping to see MKR and Lunar within four years of it's
delays...
sigmb
Of course your going to lose money on MKR. Where's the advertising, and
news about it. The title is so old now only rpg purists or people who
missed out the chance to buy the great import for a mere $25(that's me)
will buy it. Now I hear (I cannot confirm) the price is as high as an N64
title, $64. The game better be top notch for it to have an asking price
like that and after all our wait too. Alundra is getting the hype, how
about your other Saturn projects. For example at first I wanted to buy your
Sega Ages games but now it seems there's no news about it(is it even coming
out). The only way some of us non WD fans will buy that if the price is
right.
And Vic I don't really care if you translate games for other system, just
as long as other games like MKR, and as you said, that needed to be seen,
just get seen.
Sig
Victor Ireland <SMR...@prodigy.com> wrote in article
<5udt3b$gte$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>...
> >Now this makes no sense. What does the first comment have to do with
> >system loyalty? You can do all the PSX games you want to gain profit,
> >but why not do Lunar 2 also? You made the decision to stop Saturn
> >development. Was the real reason not that you were pissed at Sega, but
> >that to do another title would financially break the company? If the
> >Saturn user base is so small that it can't support what would
> >apparently be your company's most wanted title, why even bother with
> >MKR or any others?
>
Dwhyna Jennings
In article <5ucrh4$mgo$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>,
SMR...@prodigy.com (Victor Ireland) wrote:
>
> It meant a *lot* to me, but the point is that the business reality is
> that IF we spent the dough to do that title for the Saturn, it would be
> the LAST LUNAR ever, because it would break us financially. I feel that
> secure continuation of the series is far more important than console
> loyalty at all costs, especially if it isn't appreciated anyway.
>
"If we spent...to do that title for the Saturn..." "I feel that secure
continuation of the series is far more important than console loyalty..."
Are you giving subtle hints that we may see the continuation of the
Lunar series on the Playstation?
Jason Costa
Darien Allen wrote:
> All this whining is really starting to make me gag. It's incredible
> for anyone in the gaming industry to post in the NGs, and then when
> they do, they great treated like pure D 2$#@$. No wonder many
> companies don't bother anymore.
I was thinking the same thing a few days ago. Would people here be
making such a big deal out of the whole thing if Vic wasn't posting on
here? A lot of companies are dropping Saturn development, but I've
never seen such harsh outcry before. And most of the time (like when
TR2 became a PSX exclusive) the blame went to Sony for trying to buy the
market. But in this case, no one's at fault except for Victor Ireland?
I guess it's going to be some time before people step back and blame the
real people at fault. I think everyone here knows who it is, but no one
seems to admit it; it's easier to find a scapegoat and torture them
instead. -JC-WATCHDOG
--
To Reply, remove *NOSpam* from email address
Darien Allen
On Mon, 01 Sep 1997 09:51:38 -0600, a pack of monkeys scratchin their
butts found Dwh...@concentric.net (Dwhyna Jennings) mumbling:
>
> Mr. Ireland, you share part of the blame in this. When the Saturn was
>first announced it was declared by everyone to be the "system of choice
All this whining is really starting to make me gag. It's incredible
for anyone in the gaming industry to post in the NGs, and then when
they do, they great treated like pure D 2$#@$. No wonder many
companies don't bother anymore.
----
The above post was created by ME.
It contains facts and opinions as interpreted, again by,
yup ME. Don't like it, disagree with it?
Hey' that's not my problem!
Darien Allen - Remove NOSPAM to Reply
Dwhyna Jennings
In article <5uf0hs$8sc$1...@newsd-113.bryant.webtv.net>,
I honestly don't think that the American Dural will be used for
anything but arcade ports. SoA pretty much said the same thing. Stolar;
"It will better serve our purpose to bring the arcade experience home."
Jeremy Reaban
Yeah, I agree. If you don't like WD dropping Saturn support for the PSX,
just don't buy any of their PSX stuff. Don't make it personal.
OTOH, I'm not sure I buy the story about them losing money if they bring
over Lunar:EB for the Saturn. How many games must they sell to make a
profit? I can't believe it's more than say, 30,000 to break even. Sheesh,
even the Jaquar still gets new games made for it, and they are presumably
turning a profit...
Darien Allen <darienno...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in article
<snip>
Darien Allen
On Mon, 01 Sep 1997 11:21:37 -0600, a pack of monkeys scratchin their
butts found Dwh...@concentric.net (Dwhyna Jennings) mumbling:
>put your company where it is today - or should I say *was* at one time.
>You should be ashamed of yourself for what you have done with Lunar and
>your fans.
>
And SOA should be ashamed for the way it's denied so many of Sega's
best titles American Releases.
Darien Allen
On Mon, 01 Sep 1997 21:11:51 -0600, a pack of monkeys scratchin their
butts found Dwh...@concentric.net (Dwhyna Jennings) mumbling:
>
> I honestly don't think that the American Dural will be used for
>anything but arcade ports. SoA pretty much said the same thing. Stolar;
>"It will better serve our purpose to bring the arcade experience home."
>
Stoler, now there's a brain trust for you.
j...@inlink.com
Not quite true. Core was labeled by most people as 'sell outs' for making
TR2 a PSX exclusive. And Dave Perry of Shiny was called any number of
names when he stopped development of Saturn games. And people were upset
when Atlus canned Devil Summoner, and then all Saturn development. As
well as Konami.
Plus, consider what the head of SoA , Bernie Stollar gets called. Lots
and lots of nasty names.
In article <5ufdtj$6...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
Jason.Costa-WATCHDOG@*NOSpam*worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
>
> I was thinking the same thing a few days ago. Would people here be
> making such a big deal out of the whole thing if Vic wasn't posting on
> here? A lot of companies are dropping Saturn development, but I've
> never seen such harsh outcry before. And most of the time (like when
> TR2 became a PSX exclusive) the blame went to Sony for trying to buy the
> market. But in this case, no one's at fault except for Victor Ireland?
> I guess it's going to be some time before people step back and blame the
> real people at fault. I think everyone here knows who it is, but no one
> seems to admit it; it's easier to find a scapegoat and torture them
> instead. -JC-WATCHDOG
>
> --
> To Reply, remove *NOSpam* from email address
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
Greg Sewart
Jason Costa wrote:
>
> I was thinking the same thing a few days ago. Would people here be
> making such a big deal out of the whole thing if Vic wasn't posting on
> here? A lot of companies are dropping Saturn development, but I've
> never seen such harsh outcry before.
Ah... But a lot of other companies weren't releasing Lunar. Also, a lot
of other companies weren't releasing RPG's, period. I seem to remember
a similar outcry when Konami canned their Saturn development, yet,
wonder of wonders, I haven't seen a Konami rep on here in ages, well,
not one who actively participated in these discussions. So I'll tell
you why I think there's a big outcry, it's because many of us feel WD is
a great company, and that's it, just like Konami. I guarantee, if
Capcom leaves the Saturn, you'll see another huge outcry.
And most of the time (like when
> TR2 became a PSX exclusive) the blame went to Sony for trying to buy the
> market. But in this case, no one's at fault except for Victor Ireland?
> I guess it's going to be some time before people step back and blame the
> real people at fault. I think everyone here knows who it is, but no one
> seems to admit it; it's easier to find a scapegoat and torture them
> instead. -JC-WATCHDOG
Unfortunately, you're right about that part, too many people are blaming
Sony for the mass exodus to the PlayStation. Personally, I have mixed
feelings about it. Neither Sega or Nintendo can even hope to compete
once Sony starts throwing money around, which is exactly what they're
doing. While it may seem underhanded, hey, that's business, and we all
have to live with it. However, you're also right in the fact that not
all the blame should lie with Sony or with the respective publishers,
for, while Sega really can't compete financially with Sony, it seems as
though they aren't even trying.
Oh, well, what can you do?
--
Greg Sewart
Editor in Chief
Gaming Age
http://www.ga.simplenet.com/
"Over-specialize and you breed in weakness."
-Ghost in the Shell
Victor Ireland
>There's no shame in that. At least not in my eyes. You tried to work
>with the Saturn and due to financial problems it just isn't feesable
>anymore. But why not come out right away and say what you say above?
Because virtually ALL the supporting information I *could* post would be
considered quite damaging, and possibly a breach of NDA. I used the
above example (as general as I could make it) as simply ONE of the
decision making factors.
>you made it seem as though the Sega giving you the bad
>spot was the major factor.
Actually most of the net community has done that. I have always said it
was simply the straw that broke the camel's back.
DBTH - Vic
Dwhyna Jennings
In article <5ufdtj$6...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
Jason.Costa-WATCHDOG@*NOSpam*worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> > All this whining is really starting to make me gag. It's incredible
> > for anyone in the gaming industry to post in the NGs, and then when
> > they do, they great treated like pure D 2$#@$. No wonder many
> > companies don't bother anymore.
>
> making such a big deal out of the whole thing if Vic wasn't posting on
> here? A lot of companies are dropping Saturn development, but I've
> TR2 became a PSX exclusive) the blame went to Sony for trying to buy the
> market. But in this case, no one's at fault except for Victor Ireland?
> I guess it's going to be some time before people step back and blame the
> real people at fault. I think everyone here knows who it is, but no one
> seems to admit it; it's easier to find a scapegoat and torture them
> instead. -JC-WATCHDOG
>
That's because no other company has established such a dominant
presence in the RPG market for Sega as Working Designs has. Believe me, I
did rake Atlus over the coals when they cancelled Devil Summoner, and
Konami for both refusing to bring over Tokimeki Memorial and Policenauts.
But neither of those two has near the presence that WD has on the Saturn.
I even wrote a few less than nice letters to Nintendo of America for not
bringing over Wonder Project J2 for the N64. One of the reasons that I
am so vocally upset with WD here in RVG Sega is that they haven't put up
their Feedback on their website - which I believe that they aren't doing
it is because the bulk of their feedback messages will be just like what
Mr. Ireland is hearing here in RVG Sega and Sony. That WD doesn't want to
hear the frustrated outcry of their "we're nothing without you!"
dwindling legion of fans.
Just by reading this NG and Sony's, everyone is well aware of the
growing groundswell of discontent and frustration with WD's practices.
But have they shown any sign that they are listening? NO! Their idea of
calming their fans and those yet-to-be PSX fans, now never-to-be WD fans,
is to issue yet more delays. More "if I was a betting man..." fake
promises. More fake release dates to further raise the discontent. With
no promises (as if we could believe them) of improvement or willingness
to do better.
Working Designs for Sega can be paralleled to Squaresoft with Nintendo.
What? You didn't hear any screaming from Nintendo fans when Square left
them for Sony? And yet you don't understand the vocal outrage of WD
leaving their Sega fans?
Victor Ireland is taking the heat within the vidgame circles just as
Carl Macek is within the anime circles, and for many of the same reasons;
both stay highly visible and thus subject to attack, and both are
notorious for over-Americanizing or over-editing Japanese works. Mr.
Ireland just has the added hatred of constantly and consistantly delaying
promised titles way beyond any reasonable time frame.
Mr. Ireland, and WD is recieving just what they should expect from
their complete lack of determination in getting their titles out as
promised, when promised, and are encouraging even more discontent by
their growing desire to butcher the original games that they do get.
It's very true that WD manages to get the very best games available for
us, but what they do to them after they get them is causing great alarm
to the fans of those games; the endless, endless delays and the horrid
over-editing and Comedy Workshop translations being done to them.
Really - is this what we have come to expect from the once great
Working Designs of Lunar fame???
Dwhyna
Dwhyna Jennings
In article <340edf96...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
darienno...@nospamhotmail.com (Darien Allen) wrote:
>
> On Mon, 01 Sep 1997 09:51:38 -0600, a pack of monkeys scratchin their
> >first announced it was declared by everyone to be the "system of choice
>
> for anyone in the gaming industry to post in the NGs, and then when
> they do, they great treated like pure D 2$#@$. No wonder many
> companies don't bother anymore.
>
Oh? I believe that if Squaresoft or Konami made a presence in the NG's
that they would be treated as gods coming from on high to partake of the
worshipful bounty of the masses. Why? BECAUSE THEY DELIVER ON THEIR
PROMISES!
Sure - Square might get some flak from the Nintendo crowd, but they
would be welcomed with open arms in the Sony NG, whereas Working Designs
has disgruntled the fans of every system they've currently developed for.
The Sony NG should seemingly be welcoming Working Designs just as with
Square, but read it. Now that WD has simply moved their delaying tactics
over from us to Sony's gamers, they're getting the same flak that they
have recieved here. Is it really so much for them to ask themselves "why
are the gamers so frustrated with us?" and to work on solving the problem
to create a new golden age of WD presence instead of creating the same
climate of animosity that they leave behind with Sega?
Joe Ottoson
In article <8731657...@dejanews.com>, Dwh...@concentric.net (Dwhyna
Jennings) wrote:
> I honestly don't think that the American Dural will be used for
> anything but arcade ports.
I'm sorry, but that's simply insane. Sega already tried that with the
Saturn for the most part (and failed). If they were just interested in
arcade ports, they wouldn't have bothered with an easy to program system
like Power VR. The only real reason they'd get such a familiar design is
so other developers would get an easier system to program on, and
familiarity breeds content ;)
SoA pretty much said the same thing. Stolar;
> "It will better serve our purpose to bring the arcade experience home."
>
The Genesis had about the same monkier when it was released. (Remember?
They mainly advertised Altered Beast and Golden Axe way back then.) It
doesn't mean a thing. Every Sega system has been designed "to bring the
arcade home" It's a large chunk of Sega's image, but it's not everything.
3rd parties will play a major role, or nobody will buy the thing...
(Sega went it alone with the SMS, and it failed. A system needs 3rd party
content or the system is doomed)
Reviewer for Gamers Island
Dream Hunter
m...@cs.buffalo.edu (Mike S Reynolds) wrote:
>I don't find it invalid, but rather unjustified. Do you really think anyone
>cares that much about the names? You delayed a game for 2 years to please a
>*very* small portion of your audience, when in fact that portion of your
>fanbase, the anime purists, will probably still be disappointed in the game
>because you're changing the title screen and theme song, dubbing the anime,
>and probably totally revamping the Japanese writing.
Hey, speak for yourself! I rather like the dubbs WD does. Some of them are better than
companies that dubb anime as a their business.
I'm also looking forward (hopefully before the turn of the century) a CD collection of past themes
WD has done for thier games...
______________________________________________________________________
Wendell Hong "Begining a tradition of redundancy" ^_^
Advertising Manager
Limelight Publishing Co.
http://planet-hawaii.com/lime
-=-
Anime and Manga Online(AaMO)!
Check out: http://www.cris.com/~akiyama/aamo.html
Joe Ottoson
In article <8731839...@dejanews.com>, Dwh...@concentric.net (Dwhyna
Jennings) wrote:
> Oh? I believe that if Squaresoft or Konami made a presence in the NG's
> that they would be treated as gods coming from on high to partake of the
> worshipful bounty of the masses. Why? BECAUSE THEY DELIVER ON THEIR
> PROMISES!
>
Oh? I bet you that we'd hear all the shrifted SNES owners bitching because
they didn't get FF Extreme or the other FF games. They'd complain that
Square never bothered to listen to them before, and they'd nag about
translation bits on FF7, FFT, and they'd beg and wheedle about porting the
older PSx titles to the PSx. Not to mention Square passing up Tobal 2 (and
that's just the first thread) SOM 3 was canned in favor of SoE? Please.
Enix would be mobbed for DQ in the same manner. Neither company was ever
perfect and those fans tend to be the most obsessive and preachy around.
(just look at the otakukun na baka floating around)
Darien Allen
After being abucted by aliens (which explains alot of things)
Dwh...@concentric.net (Dwhyna Jennings) was told to say that:
> Oh? I believe that if Squaresoft or Konami made a presence in the NG's
>that they would be treated as gods coming from on high to partake of the
>worshipful bounty of the masses. Why? BECAUSE THEY DELIVER ON THEIR
>PROMISES!
>
> Sure - Square might get some flak from the Nintendo crowd, but they
>would be welcomed with open arms in the Sony NG, whereas Working Designs
>has disgruntled the fans of every system they've currently developed for.
Have you been in rec.games.video.sony or nintendo recently? If you
have you have not been posting. They haven't caught some
flak...they've caught a HUGE amount of flak. They been labelled sell
outs, and all types of crazy crap. Read Dejanews seach on Square in
those 2 ngs and see what you come up with.
> The Sony NG should seemingly be welcoming Working Designs just as with
>Square, but read it. Now that WD has simply moved their delaying tactics
>over from us to Sony's gamers, they're getting the same flak that they
>have recieved here. Is it really so much for them to ask themselves "why
>are the gamers so frustrated with us?" and to work on solving the problem
>to create a new golden age of WD presence instead of creating the same
>climate of animosity that they leave behind with Sega?
They are getting ALOT less flak they what the catch here.
-----
Darien Allen
After being abucted by aliens (which explains alot of things)
Dwh...@concentric.net (Dwhyna Jennings) was told to say that:
> Working Designs for Sega can be paralleled to Squaresoft with Nintendo.
>What? You didn't hear any screaming from Nintendo fans when Square left
>them for Sony? And yet you don't understand the vocal outrage of WD
>leaving their Sega fans?
Well actually yes you did and still do here gripes about Square
leaving Nintendo. I believe there's a thread or two going on right
now, and have had a few in the recent past, check dejanews.
>notorious for over-Americanizing or over-editing Japanese works. Mr.
>Ireland just has the added hatred of constantly and consistantly delaying
>promised titles way beyond any reasonable time frame.
Ah, so Mr. Ireland is personally doing the conversions, and should be
blamed for the delays?
> Mr. Ireland, and WD is recieving just what they should expect from
>their complete lack of determination in getting their titles out as
>promised, when promised, and are encouraging even more discontent by
>their growing desire to butcher the original games that they do get.
>
> It's very true that WD manages to get the very best games available for
>us, but what they do to them after they get them is causing great alarm
>to the fans of those games; the endless, endless delays and the horrid
>over-editing and Comedy Workshop translations being done to them.
>
> Really - is this what we have come to expect from the once great
>Working Designs of Lunar fame???
If this is what you think they should expect. Then don't expect him
to post that much more here. Really I can understand the frustration,
but the language of some of these posts. This isn't some person on
the street you are talking to. All I'm saying is attempt to show SOME
respect. That and buy some other games! ;)
nathan stehle
Jason Costa <Jason.Costa-WATCHDOG@*NOSpam*worldnet.att.net> writes:
>Darien Allen wrote:
>> All this whining is really starting to make me gag. It's incredible
>> for anyone in the gaming industry to post in the NGs, and then when
>> they do, they great treated like pure D 2$#@$. No wonder many
>> companies don't bother anymore.
> I was thinking the same thing a few days ago. Would people here be
>making such a big deal out of the whole thing if Vic wasn't posting on
>here? A lot of companies are dropping Saturn development, but I've
>never seen such harsh outcry before. And most of the time (like when
>TR2 became a PSX exclusive) the blame went to Sony for trying to buy the
>market. But in this case, no one's at fault except for Victor Ireland?
>I guess it's going to be some time before people step back and blame the
>real people at fault. I think everyone here knows who it is, but no one
>seems to admit it; it's easier to find a scapegoat and torture them
>instead. -JC-WATCHDOG
Exactly. Which is what I have been saying for quite awhile now.
Other than the Dave Perry (of Shiny fame) bs, not much has been said. And
he hyped up a game, and then cancelled it.
--
Nathan Stehle
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Early to bed and early to rise, makes a man stupid and blind in the eyes."
Mazer Rackham in Orson Scott Card's "Ender's Game"
Castellan
Dwh...@concentric.net (Dwhyna Jennings) writes:
> Mr. Ireland, you share part of the blame in this. When the Saturn was
>first announced it was declared by everyone to be the "system of choice
>for RPG'ers". Most of this attributed almost exclusively to your
< snip snip >
>company's works and dedication to Sega. If anyone ran a poll they would
>more committed to bringing out its games then everything would have been
>much more rosier for both Sega and WD. You both share the blame for
>losing our support.
Oh, this is *too* rich. So, and I want to get this straight: Sega's
downfall and Vic's inability to turn a profit on future Saturn releases is
MOSTLY VIC'S FAULT? Not, as most would think, the result of Sony's mega-
-marketing machine crushing the Saturn into the ground?
Come on.
Yes, quite a few die-hard Sega CD fans purchased the Saturn at release,
believing it to be the RPG godsend. I can, however, most likely say that
this purchasing demographic was a very small subcomponent of the overall
RPG market, seeing as the Saturn sold very few units in the first year and,
by the time it had begun to pick up steam, Sony unleashed its RPG blitzkrieg.
Of course, the _Final Fantasy_ segment of SNES gamers went to Playstation,
or continue to loyally support Nintendo, leaving the Saturn out of their
purchasing plans entirely. In fact, I think it would be reasonably safe to
say that a larger segment of the Saturn-owning populace purchased their
machine to play quality Capcom conversions than to play RPGs, which were,
by and large, never announced.
The Saturn RPG demographic is pretty damn vocal, but I sorely doubt
it has as much number as people give it credit for. A good example is in
the retail numbers of RPGs on the respective systems: _StHA_, arguably the
Saturn's best-selling RPG, has sold, as of a couple weeks ago, about 60K
units - a respectable number, especially given the size of the Saturn's
overall market share, which is about 1M units in NA. Now, look at the numbers
for _Wild Arms_ - well-nigh 300K units sold, which is a little less than *5*
times that of _StHA_. Now, one HAS to ask, where, again, is the RPG market
at?
Of course, one only has to note the nearly 1M preorders (or more)
for _Final Fantasy 7_ and the attention Sony is lavishing it to see where the
RPGs will be going in the future.
WD is a business, and, from what I can tell, a fan service inasmuch as
they can keep their little company afloat. Despite your moaning and finger-
-pointing, it's as bluntly obvious as the nose on my face that Vic has clung
to the side of the Good Ship Saturn even after her captain has bailed ship,
hanging in for another fathom or so of releases. He doesn't HAVE to release
_MKRE_ or _Lunar: SSS_ - he doesn't OWE you anything. WD still has more
releases scheduled for the Saturn than the Playstation (3 vs. 2), so the
enraged grunts of the Sega jihaddi are, quite frankly, childish and without
merit. If you think he's going to support the Saturn after its gone utterly
tats up in the sales department next year, well, then I really think you
need to check into Motel Crackpot for a nice, healthy, cranial enema.
--- ---
Douglas L. Erickson - ECN Computer Publications and Training Specialist
mail to: dou...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu --- http://www.ecn.ou.edu/~douglas
--- ECN does not, in any way, sponsor or endorse my rabid opinions. ---
Kevin Duncan
Victor Ireland <SMR...@prodigy.com> wrote in article
> Exactly. We will most-likely break even or lose money on MKR. We're
> doing it because it deserves to be seen after all this time, and as a
> thank-you for our fans. We did this with LUNAR:Eternal Blue on SEGA CD.
> We KNEW we'd lose money on it, releasing it nearly 6 months after SEGA
> officially canned the SEGA CD production. But, the game needed to be
> seen, and we felt our fans deserved it.
>
Wait a sec, it sounds like after MKR you are saying goodbye to Saturn.
Does this mean no Lunar now?
Colt Duncan
Kevin Duncan
Dwhyna Jennings <Dwh...@concentric.net> wrote in article
<8731251...@dejanews.com>...
>If Working Designs had been
> more committed to bringing out its games then everything would have been
> much more rosier for both Sega and WD. You both share the blame for
> losing our support.
>
> Dwhyna
>
> -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
>
You make me want to puke! Blaming WD and Vic for DESTROYING the Saturn
when all they've ever done is help it. Remember last Christmas how Vic
started the campaign to get better Saturn display's in stores? Or remember
how he brought Lunar:EB out for Sega CD 6 months after it was dead? I
thought so. Sure, there games maybe late and I can't say I'm not upset
about the delay's of Lunar and MKR, but without WD who would bring these
games out? Sega? HA! Not in a million years. WD continues to bring out
the best games ever made and satisfies me with every release. They are far
from losing my support and won't till the day I lay down my controller for
good. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Colt Duncan
Greg Sewart
Dwhyna Jennings wrote:
>
> In article <5uf0hs$8sc$1...@newsd-113.bryant.webtv.net>,
> MackD...@webtv.net (Tony Francis) wrote:
> >
> > Message for Victor Ireland:
> >
> > I understand what you are saying about no longer publishing for the
> > Saturn. It's just not financially viable for your company anymore. But
> > I was wondering if you could clear something up for me. Does your
> > relationship with Sega end with the Saturn or is their a possibility
> > that WD will publish for the Dural?
> >
> > Tony Francis
>
> I honestly don't think that the American Dural will be used for
> anything but arcade ports. SoA pretty much said the same thing. Stolar;
> "It will better serve our purpose to bring the arcade experience home."
>
> Dwhyna
While I won't mince words with the almighty Bernie Stollar, I really
don't think that arcade ports will be the only thing we'll see on the
Dural (BTW, does anyone else pray they won't release it with that
name?), simply because a system needs more variety than that to survive.
Besides, look at the Neo Geo, granted, that's a bad example simply
because of it's price point.
Also, when this whole WD vs. Sega thing first started, I seem to
remember Vic mentioning that, while development for the Saturn has
ceased, it did not mean that they wouldn't consider future Sega
consoles. Personally, I think that, if they ever get rid of Stolar,
it'll patch up WD/Sega's relationship pretty quickly.