Magic Knight Release Date?
Ronald Moy
Thanks.
Victor Ireland
> Does anyone know when in August Magic Knight will be released?
> Thanks.
>
>
Text is 100%, audio is finally about 70% done. We should hit a late August
or early september release. The packaging is in the printing process!
Thanks for your patience and support. (There's an AVI of the English
opening that's almost done [the title logo is still Japanese] at
www.workingdesigns.com in the THEATRE section.
--
Don't Believe the Hype -
Vic
Sig Bautista
awful. I'm not sure if it's because of compression or recording but I can't
even understand what the singer is saying; is it really english :-(
YururenaiNegai (the title of the MKR opening song) is so beautiful in its
original japanese form and personally one of my favorite anime opening
themes it so sad that it had to americanized this way. Listening to the WD
english version is reminescent to watching badly dub anime videos.
Vic isn't there a way you can just put in subtitles on the original japanese
version. I think I remember Vic answered this before in that they didn't
have the rights to the japanese version... I'm not really sure...can someone
confirm. If that's the case, then just omit the english voice and just leave
the music intact (no voice) since you are using the same soundtrack.
MKR fans download the avi and you be the judge.
Sig
Victor Ireland wrote in message ...
Victor Ireland
> Ya know, I'm not being mean here...see, I'm finally convinced that MKR *WILL*
> be released here as WD's last Saturn game. I'm just wondering why, at E3, I
> was told the games was 'finished' In any case, I just hope we have it in
> August. G' luck, Vic.
>
Probably because the text WAS finished. All that remained was to record the
audio that goes with it.
Victor Ireland
> I've just downloaded the MKR avi from WD's site. I must say it is really
> awful. I'm not sure if it's because of compression or recording but I can't
> even understand what the singer is saying; is it really english :-(
>
> YururenaiNegai (the title of the MKR opening song) is so beautiful in its
> original japanese form and personally one of my favorite anime opening
> themes it so sad that it had to americanized this way. Listening to the WD
> english version is reminescent to watching badly dub anime videos.
>
> Vic isn't there a way you can just put in subtitles on the original japanese
> version. I think I remember Vic answered this before in that they didn't
> have the rights to the japanese version... I'm not really sure...can someone
> confirm. If that's the case, then just omit the english voice and just leave
> the music intact (no voice) since you are using the same soundtrack.
>
Opinion on our web board seems to be split about 80-20 in favor of the opening.
The ones who don't like it are generally anime die-hards. We couldn't use
the original song, vocals, or ANYTHING. They were very tight about it.
Sig Bautista
have watched an episode of MKR)? I would think that the poll is geared
towards the WD fan rather than an anime fan (not likely a die hard anime
fan).
But I must retract my original statement that WD's dub version is akin to
bad anime dub music, there exists much much worse.
Sig
Victor Ireland wrote in message ...
Victor Ireland
> Is the 80% that favored it ever listened to the original(not necessarily
> have watched an episode of MKR)? I would think that the poll is geared
> towards the WD fan rather than an anime fan (not likely a die hard anime
> fan).
> But I must retract my original statement that WD's dub version is akin to
> bad anime dub music, there exists much much worse.
>
Oh, most DEFINITELY. You should have heard the NEVER released OAV TV
version for the US release of Rayearth that never happened. The song
was completely different and REALLY sucked.
It wasn't a poll, but merely my observation of the "it's great" vs
"it sucks" posts on our webboard.
Quinn Seed
Ya know, I'm not being mean here...see, I'm finally convinced that MKR *WILL*
be released here as WD's last Saturn game. I'm just wondering why, at E3, I
was told the games was 'finished' In any case, I just hope we have it in
August. G' luck, Vic.
~Quinn Fox, creator of the PLAYERS gamesite.
"http://members.aol.com/quinnseed/players.html"
Raymond McKeithen II
Quinn Seed wrote in message
<199808030324...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>
>Ya know, I'm not being mean here...see, I'm finally convinced that MKR
*WILL*
>be released here as WD's last Saturn game. I'm just wondering why, at E3,
I
>was told the games was 'finished' In any case, I just hope we have it in
>August. G' luck, Vic.
>
was the last Saturn US game....maybe they know something we don't...heh.
remove *2* nospam's for email...
Raymond
Quinn Seed
Probably because the text WAS finished. All that remained was to record the
audio that goes with it.
I can live with that. Seems like a practical explanation to me. =D
~Quinn Seed
Visit the 'Players'
http://members.aol.com/quinnseed/players.html
Scott Call - Verio Northern California
> Oh, most DEFINITELY. You should have heard the NEVER released OAV TV
> version for the US release of Rayearth that never happened. The song
> was completely different and REALLY sucked.
I've heard horror stories of TMS's dub.
But about the AVI. The woman you have singing the song... she seems a
tad... Tone deaf? Something akin to my little sis singin' in the shower
:)
I know Redding isn't exactly a hotbed of voice acting talent, but still ;)
-Scott
Darrius Joiner
seen any MKRE in English, but considering how this has gotten 'backburner'
status at WD begs the question did they really put any effort into the port
(since we've been told for months that they don't expect this title to make any
money). I just got my hands on another import copy from a friend overseas, so
at least I have MKRE in it's 'true' form. I'm sure the game will be good, but
having watched the original TV series, as well as the OAVs, I'm sure that there
will be some things that I'll question. Those of you who haven't experienced
this then you are in for a 2D treat, but I can see the Next Generation review
now, slamming it for being 2D, short quest, and outdated. We'll see what the
title goes for retail and then I'll decide if I want another copy.
Sig Bautista wrote:
> Is the 80% that favored it ever listened to the original(not necessarily
> have watched an episode of MKR)? I would think that the poll is geared
> towards the WD fan rather than an anime fan (not likely a die hard anime
> fan).
> But I must retract my original statement that WD's dub version is akin to
> bad anime dub music, there exists much much worse.
>
> Sig
>
> Victor Ireland wrote in message ...
> >Opinion on our web board seems to be split about 80-20 in favor of the
> opening.
> >The ones who don't like it are generally anime die-hards. We couldn't use
> >the original song, vocals, or ANYTHING. They were very tight about it.
> >
James Mark Robillos
>
>I've just downloaded the MKR avi from WD's site. I must say it is really
>awful. I'm not sure if it's because of compression or recording but I can't
>even understand what the singer is saying; is it really english :-(
>
>YururenaiNegai (the title of the MKR opening song) is so beautiful in its
>original japanese form and personally one of my favorite anime opening
>themes it so sad that it had to americanized this way. Listening to the WD
>english version is reminescent to watching badly dub anime videos.
>
>Vic isn't there a way you can just put in subtitles on the original japanese
>version. I think I remember Vic answered this before in that they didn't
>have the rights to the japanese version... I'm not really sure...can someone
>confirm. If that's the case, then just omit the english voice and just leave
>the music intact (no voice) since you are using the same soundtrack.
>
>
>
>
>
>Victor Ireland wrote in message ...
>>> Does anyone know when in August Magic Knight will be released?
>>> Thanks.
--
Um... the beginning sorta sounds like Yuzurenai Negai, but it just isn't up to
par with the Japanese version. What is it, "A boat every dream" or something?
I also noticed that sound effects are present where there aren't in the
original... The part that really left me "confused" is (in the Japanese one
anyways) "dashikirenai jitsuryoku wa dare no sei?" You know, how the tempo
rises and you get this cool, hero type feeling? The English one just doesn't
do the same for me... Don't get me wrong, the English one is still very good,
although die hard MKRE fans might be left feeling empty. I'll still buy the
game though! I guess I always liked the original songs better, like "Tsubasa"
in Lunar, but I still like the games. It's just like a person's choice between
subbed and dubbed films, everyone's tastes differs. Good job Vic!
-------------------------------------------------------------
James Mark Robillos
ma...@ptw.com
http://www.ptw.com/~markr
You are not alive, you are merely being allowed to live...
Kinpachi Sensei, Episode 17
-------------------------------------------------------------
MoonPrince
> But about the AVI. The woman you have singing the song... she seems a
> tad... Tone deaf? Something akin to my little sis singin' in the shower
> :)
gotta agree with this one. I mean, i wasn't expecting much when I
d/l'd it... but I didn't think it would be this far off from the original.
Everything about it is inferior.
The singer. Inferior. The voice doesn't match the "grittiness" of the
original singer(Tamura Naomi). Inferior. The singer has no emotion.
Inferior. Doesn't even hit all the notes!
The music. Inferior. What's with all the weird beats? It freakin sounds
like a kiddie song now. I mean, some of my friends who don't care for
anime music LIKED "Yuzurenai Negai". I'm sorry but even the music on this
one sucks compared to Yuzurenai Negai. I mean, first it was the singer,
and now the entire arrangement is jacked up? Too heavy on guitar in some
parts as well.
Overall. Inferior. What happened? I knew you can't get the rights to
the original song. Is it because of rules? Or is it just too expensive?
I'm sorry but this isn't a good song made bad. It's a good song
rearranged, hacked, slashed and totally contrasts from the original. I
stand up for you when it comes to the names, Vic, but this I just can't
defend.
To be honest Vic, I really would have preferred, if you guys couldn't use
Yuzurenai Negai, that you would have used an intstrumental version or
something w/o words, you know? Not everything HAS to be dubbed over.
Heck, in many ways, I would have preferred if you omitted voices
altogether for anime stuff.
Which leaves a HUGE realization for me. Maybe Anime Games have to stay in
Japan. Don't get me wrong, I love anime and video games. But if US
developers can't get the rights to the original voices, to the original
songs, etc, because of money, policy or whatever, maybe it just wasn't
meant to be, you know? There's no way to please purists(like me) if you
dub something over. Change the text, that's cool with me. Change the
audio? Instant turn-off. It's the reason I passed on a 100%
comprehensible Rayearth and got a 30% comprehensible one with original
voices.(and after seeing the dubbed op, thank goodness).
Which leaves one thing: how then, are you to play all the great anime
games? Well, if you are an anime(or even a game) purist, then maybe it's
time to start learning Japanese. I'm quite content with my half dozen
impoprt RPGs, having taken 1 year of the language. I don't find it
annoying at all to not know 67% of the text. If anything, I actually
LEARN more japanese through imports.
It's kinda like domestic anime. Purists complain about dubs. Casual fans
complain about subs. And some complain about them both. So the only way
out is to know Japanese... then you need neither sub nor dub, problem
solved.
But back to the subject. Even if Rayearth is a good game, although 3
years overdue, should Americans have to settle for an inferior version?
It's unfair to us the purists. It's unfair for us, the gamers. Though
I'd love to see more anime games come out here, sadly, reality prevents
them from being enjoyed in their pure, original form.
Anyone else want to comment? Either agreeing with my assessment,
or totally opposing it?
Well, if anything Vic, thanks for trying. *shrug*
MoonPrince
th...@ucdavis.edu
http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~hueyt
guy...@usa.net
mosyed on over to the WD web site and DL the Rayearth opening. Low
and behold, here's something that makes Apollo Smile sound like Mariah
Carrie!
Face it Vic, you f*cked up. Even the Spice girls got singing lessons
and I could make better music on an old Yamaha syntheziser. I could
also send you a cd I have of public domain sound effects I have lying
around. ANY of them sound better then the ones you used in the
opening. Oh and take the "swoosh" sound effect out of Clef's cape
whipping around, OK?
MoonPrince
> and I could make better music on an old Yamaha syntheziser.
> opening. Oh and take the "swoosh" sound effect out of Clef's cape
> whipping around, OK?
agreed. Actually, almost all the sound effects were turn-offs.
Is it because we've heard the original and are spoiled? I don't think so.
I let a friend listen to your opening last night. He was like, "Oh
man..." Then I played him the original one and he was like: "Man, this
song is one of my favs... " Then I played him yours again to compare...
and he covered his ears!!!
No, but I really am interested in your response in this, Vic(and
especially your thoughts on what I posted regarding this matter under the
title: "re:Magic Knight Release Date".)
MoonPrince
th...@ucdavis.edu
http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~hueyt
Virtua Flapper
> Face it Vic, you f*cked up. Even the Spice girls got singing lessons
> also send you a cd I have of public domain sound effects I have lying
> around. ANY of them sound better then the ones you used in the
> whipping around, OK?
Man, you guys are gonna give him a complex about this, and he's gonna
wanna re-do it, and we're gonna have to wait till next year till it comes
out!!!!!! My vote goes for just making it instrumental :)
==============================================================================
THE FLAPPER!!!!!!!
==============================================================================
"...it's offensive to short deformed || "Cram it with walnuts, ugly!"
people who look like testicles." || -Homer Simpson
-Tom Stern discussing E.T. ||
==============================================================================
Jeff Howerton
>and behold, here's something that makes Apollo Smile sound like Mariah
>Carrie!
this tone deaf lady at?!!! Im still trying to purge the memories of
hearing her trying to "sing". Please tell me that you are not using
the same lady for Luna in Lunar. After the boat scene, ppl wont care
about saving her, they would probably want her dead so not to have to
hear her again. And ppl thought the lady who did the opening for
Christmas Nights was bad.
Later
Jeff
Victor Ireland
ez07...@mailbox.ucdavis.edu says...
> No, but I really am interested in your response in this, Vic(and
> especially your thoughts on what I posted regarding this matter under the
> title: "re:Magic Knight Release Date".)
>
It is what it is. We were EXTREMELY constrained in what we could do
on this title. The only other option is to cut the opening entirely,
and I won't do that.
eas...@segacon.com
years it took them to release RayEarth licensing the song, too. But though it
starts out bad, I enjoy the US song. The singer has a nice voice, IMO, and iit
does remind me of dubbed anime.
In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.980804...@catbert.ucdavis.edu>,
MoonPrince <ez07...@mailbox.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
> > Face it Vic, you f*cked up. Even the Spice girls got singing lessons
> > and I could make better music on an old Yamaha syntheziser.
>
> > opening. Oh and take the "swoosh" sound effect out of Clef's cape
> > whipping around, OK?
> agreed. Actually, almost all the sound effects were turn-offs.
> Is it because we've heard the original and are spoiled? I don't think so.
> I let a friend listen to your opening last night. He was like, "Oh
> man..." Then I played him the original one and he was like: "Man, this
> song is one of my favs... " Then I played him yours again to compare...
> and he covered his ears!!!
>
> No, but I really am interested in your response in this, Vic(and
> especially your thoughts on what I posted regarding this matter under the
> title: "re:Magic Knight Release Date".)
>
> MoonPrince
> th...@ucdavis.edu
> http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~hueyt
>
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
eas...@segacon.com
Christmas Nights again and note how the woman doesn't sound like a native
speaker, like it's difficult for her to talk. She's actually kind of spooky.
Then watch RayEarth's intro, and even if that lady can't sing, at least she's
an experienced voice actress. I don't think if you dislike something you
should compare it to the worst possible example of the problem.
In article <35c749fb...@news.globaleyes.net>,
ot...@globaleyes.net (Jeff Howerton) wrote:
> I completely agree!! What the hell Vic, where did you find
> this tone deaf lady at?!!! Im still trying to purge the memories of
> hearing her trying to "sing". Please tell me that you are not using
> the same lady for Luna in Lunar. After the boat scene, ppl wont care
> about saving her, they would probably want her dead so not to have to
> hear her again. And ppl thought the lady who did the opening for
> Christmas Nights was bad.
> Later
> Jeff
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Victor Ireland
> I haven't heard the original song and I'm sure WD should have spent the many
> years it took them to release RayEarth licensing the song, too. But though it
> starts out bad, I enjoy the US song. The singer has a nice voice, IMO, and iit
> does remind me of dubbed anime.
Another thing that I meant to point out is that:
A> You're comparing a 22Khz compressed mono audio version to a full
version in the Japanese game and/or laserdisc Duh! OF course the LD's
tone and balance will be better. Compression accents weird things.
B> The mix isn't final (though close). We won't be changing it
dramatically, but some things in the song may be better balanced.
C> You can't please "purists", and we don't aspire to. We make
English versions of Japanese games for AMERICAN audiences. Constructive
criticism is one thing, but raving otaku-wannabe rants accomplish
nothing.
Herb
voice, but doesn't sound too clear on the avi. The movie can't be so
clear on a video clip, so when we all buy Rayearth maybe they will give
us a song sheet so we can sing along :P
Herb
eas...@segacon.com wrote:
>
> I haven't heard the original song and I'm sure WD should have spent the many
> years it took them to release RayEarth licensing the song, too. But though it
> starts out bad, I enjoy the US song. The singer has a nice voice, IMO, and iit
> does remind me of dubbed anime.
>
> In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.980804...@catbert.ucdavis.edu>,
> MoonPrince <ez07...@mailbox.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
> > > Face it Vic, you f*cked up. Even the Spice girls got singing lessons
> > > and I could make better music on an old Yamaha syntheziser.
> >
> > > opening. Oh and take the "swoosh" sound effect out of Clef's cape
> > > whipping around, OK?
> > agreed. Actually, almost all the sound effects were turn-offs.
> > Is it because we've heard the original and are spoiled? I don't think so.
> > I let a friend listen to your opening last night. He was like, "Oh
> > man..." Then I played him the original one and he was like: "Man, this
> > song is one of my favs... " Then I played him yours again to compare...
> > and he covered his ears!!!
> >
> > No, but I really am interested in your response in this, Vic(and
> > especially your thoughts on what I posted regarding this matter under the
> > title: "re:Magic Knight Release Date".)
> >
> > MoonPrince
> > th...@ucdavis.edu
> > http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~hueyt
> >
> >
>
guy...@usa.net
rights to the in-game music either? And is the soundtrack cd audio or
midi?
Virtua Flapper
> It is what it is. We were EXTREMELY constrained in what we could do
> on this title. The only other option is to cut the opening entirely,
> and I won't do that.
Why not just do an instrumental? No matter what happens, it's not going
to be the original song or music....so I think a cool instrumental would
work. At this point, I just want to play it, so I guess I'm going to have
to accept what gets done. :)
Victor Ireland
> I just have one more question. Does this mean you couldn't get the
> rights to the in-game music either? And is the soundtrack cd audio or
> midi?
>
We only had a problem with rights to the original opening (i.e. we have
none), since it became quite popular in Japan. There is no audio CD or
midi available, unfortunately
Victor Ireland
col...@river.it.gvsu.edu says...
> Why not just do an instrumental? No matter what happens, it's not going
> to be the original song or music....so I think a cool instrumental would
> work. At this point, I just want to play it, so I guess I'm going to have
> to accept what gets done. :)
>
As usual, we wanted to approximate the feel of the original. The hyper
purists won't like it (as we have seen), but it's good enough to give
the user a similar feel to the original.
Michael Mr. Groovy Toole
MoonPrince <ez07...@mailbox.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
> But back to the subject. Even if Rayearth is a good game, although 3
> years overdue, should Americans have to settle for an inferior version?
> It's unfair to us the purists. It's unfair for us, the gamers. Though
> I'd love to see more anime games come out here, sadly, reality prevents
> them from being enjoyed in their pure, original form.
>
> Anyone else want to comment? Either agreeing with my assessment,
> or totally opposing it?
Sure. Your logic is a bit skewed. If you're a purist, you'll dislike
the WD version of Rayearth no matter what. But if you're a purist, then
you should already have the original version, yes? Either way,
MoonPrince, you're gonna hate the English version, because one of the
reasons you liked the original is obviously because of the seiyuu. Take
them out of the equation, and that doesn't leave fans of your type with
much.
I, personally, am part of the confusing demographic that loves the
originals but still enjoys seeing good english dubs. (and they do exist,
no matter what you believe.) I'm planning on grabbing the
English-language Rayearth game (got a Saturn for the express purpose...
and cause they're so damn cheap these days), and if I find it so painfully
inferior to what I'm used to (I have lots of Rayearth fansubs), I'll just
roll my eyes, grit my teeth, and buy the original version.
The thing is, I want anime and anime related games to get -popular-
enough in the states to the point where companies can get away with doing
lots of stuff just plain subtitled, because everyone will expect it to
be. But that's going to be a long process, and in the meantime, stuff
will need to be dubbed. Most people out there still wouldn't recongize it
if it came up and bit them on the ass.
ObSaturn: Sakura Taisen arrives at my door tomorrow. @_@
--
michael "mr. groovy" toole ------> chie...@animejump.com
Anime Jump WWW magazine. Go here: www.animejump.com
"I have a certain right to speak for anime fandom. You do not."
--Kevin J. Karvonen, paraphrased
Victor Ireland
> The last thing I'm going to say is that people dislike it not because
> of us "hyper-purists"(we're also the ones who hate Myst BTW) but
> because the goddamn woman can't sing!!
>
Considering that she also did the original LUNAR opening (well received),
and Alundra's close (also well received), I think she CAN sing. She just
can't sound like you *want* her to for *this* particular song.
MoonPrince
> of us "hyper-purists"(we're also the ones who hate Myst BTW) but
> because the goddamn woman can't sing!!
amen to that, bud.
my offer is still open... anyone want to know how it's supposed to sound?
gimme an email...
MoonPrince
th...@ucdavis.edu
http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~hueyt
MoonPrince
> version in the Japanese game and/or laserdisc Duh! OF course the LD's
> tone and balance will be better. Compression accents weird things.
Ok sega peoples. Since i'm a *ahem* "raving otaku-wannabe", i
propose this: How about I encode the original Rayearth opening theme at
22khz at mono? Then you can decide. what do you people want? a .wav
file? .mp3? That's all i can do... i can post it at my site but that's
all i can do. oh, and speaking of which, i don't have a tv sized version
of it(where it ends nicely at the 1:30 mark) so I'll have to just cut it
off around taht area. but judge only on vocals, music and... oops...
don't have the sound effects for the Saturn game... but trust me, the
original sound effects weren't nearly as cheesy.
> B> The mix isn't final (though close). We won't be changing it
> dramatically, but some things in the song may be better balanced.
my question: Why a mix at all? You say you guys couldn't get
access to Naomi's vocals. Ok. Why can't you use the karaoke version and
place the English speaking person to sing over it? I don't like the
vocalist in the WD version. I don't like the sound effects in the WD
version. And I most definitely don't like the music either. As someone
mentioned, why not just an intstrumental version of it? It's not like
these gamers you're trying to please actually would have known there was a
sung opening theme...
> C> You can't please "purists", and we don't aspire to.
But you never answered my question. Is the reason you can't use
original voices because of policy? Or because it's too costly? Either
way, I'd understand as either would be a good justification. However, if
the reason is: "We just don't want to", then hey, it's not because you
"can't" please purists. It's because you "won't" please purists.
Just remember Vic, that Rayearth is an anime first. And if you
can't please that crowd, than you lose half the appeal of the game.
> We make English versions of Japanese games for AMERICAN audiences.
Oh, like I'm NOT an American? Only been one since I was born.
> Constructive criticism is one thing, but raving otaku-wannabe rants
> accomplish nothing.
excuse me Vic? I really had respect for you before. I defended
you all these times when people bashed you for delaying three years to get
names. And now you think I'm ranting? Strike 1: You made Umi swear.
WTF? It's a kid show. Even if you don't know a thing about anime,
wouldn't a mother go to EB or something see cute little characters, buy it
for their kid... only to see "That B*@CH from the other day..." on the
screen? Strike 2: Sorry Vic, but i think the opening stinks. If you're
limited on resources, fine. But I still don't know why you couldn't keep
original music... or if anything, just keep it an instrumental.
And now strike 3: WTF did i say? Did I not say exactly what I
didn't like about your opening? Did I not exactly say why i thought what
I thought? My "rant" also DID have some suggestions and questions for you
and other companies: why have voice at all? I mean, in Shining Force 3,
domestic people wouldn't know there was voices unless they've played the
import. And when I got my lousy acting domestic SF3, i really wished
they HAD left the voices out. Now, i haven't heard the voices for
Rayearth just yet, but I as a "raving otaku-wannabe" prefer the originals
already. But I'm just saying, why do you HAVE to dub voices at all? Why
did you HAVE to have a vocal opening for Rayearth? IMO, in the cases of
SF3 and Rayearth opening, they would have been better with the vocals left
out.
If you still don't care for what I'm asking, suggesting, whatever,
just say so. No need to call me a "ranter". What do you care? I already
have the import Rayearth so you know I'm not getting yours. What do I
care? For the same reason... but I do care. For the sake of the anime
community. For the sake of the gaming community.
an angry-
MoonPrince
th...@ucdavis.edu
http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~hueyt
MoonPrince
> the WD version of Rayearth no matter what.
Not necessarily. I don't like the fact that the seiyuu aren't
left intact, but I didn't pass up the domestic only for that. I really
was/am curious about what WD would do with it but as I stated, I don't
like the way they made Umi swear. I don't like their version of the
opening, which should have been an instrumental if they needed to change
it. So now, with two things going against it already, i will come out and
say, "I already dislike WD's version."
> But if you're a purist, then
> you should already have the original version, yes?
Well... ok.. i did pick up the original. This was after I took
some courses in Japanese and after I realized the importance of seiyuu...
and after I realized that WD wasn't sticking with a release date.
> Either way, MoonPrince, you're gonna hate the English version, because
> one of the reasons you liked the original is obviously because of the
> seiyuu. Take them out of the equation, and that doesn't leave fans of
> your type with much.
Agreed. but i know that as much as I want subbed games(like
Panzer Dragoon Saga... one of the best aspects of it i might add), in
general, it ain't gonna happen. So I DO hold it against US companies to
not use the seiyuu, but i won't automatically hate it because of it. I
was gonna get english Lunar... but because my brother sold his PSX, maybe
not. BUt hey, it's all good. I got Lunar:SSS for the Saturn coming in
tomorrow...
But really though, i am only against WD's Rayearth now because of
what else was changed: ie the style of speech(Umi did NOT talk like
that...), and the .. gulp... bad opening song.
> I, personally, am part of the confusing demographic that loves the
> originals but still enjoys seeing good english dubs. (and they do exist,
> no matter what you believe.)
And I replied to you on the "other" newsgroup saying that I agree.. though
i believe the majority of them aren't good.
> I'm planning on grabbing the
> English-language Rayearth game (got a Saturn for the express purpose...
> and cause they're so damn cheap these days), and if I find it so painfully
> inferior to what I'm used to (I have lots of Rayearth fansubs), I'll just
> roll my eyes, grit my teeth, and buy the original version.
btw, have you d/l'd the opening theme? If that's a symbol of
what's to come, you probably will end up buying the original Rayearth.
Oh, and another thing is... the English Rayearth game has a MSRP of the
price you can get a Saturn for nowadays.. $65
oh and i too got a saturn for the purpose of getting WD's
Rayearth game. then when i discovered Sakura Taisen... man... i didn't
care about anything else...
> The thing is, I want anime and anime related games to get -popular-
> enough in the states to the point where companies can get away with doing
> lots of stuff just plain subtitled, because everyone will expect it to
> be.
I really wish that that would happen. And looking at anime
pricing($30 for a sub? $20 for a dub? duh... wonder what the casual
american will buy...), it makes me sick how anime is diverging from how it
used to be. I mean, some DVDs only come in English with no Japanese
option... no subtitling option...
It's sick how them companies are manipulating the masses...
> But that's going to be a long process, and in the meantime, stuff
> will need to be dubbed. Most people out there still wouldn't recongize it
> if it came up and bit them on the ass.
Rayearth? Well, especially since it's not in the US officially.
But then again, there are those who have never heard of SailorMoon in the
US...
> ObSaturn: Sakura Taisen arrives at my door tomorrow. @_@
Ooh!!! Good for you! Hey, gimme your comments on it when you've
played it. My opinion? http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~hueyt/sakura.html
(see? I can put out shameless plugs as much as you can :P ).
-mp
guy...@usa.net
guy...@usa.net
living at home when it came out. My mom, who is a piano teacher and
has to listen to people butcher classics all day, overheard it and
said it was the worst renidition of a song she had ever heard.
I will give you that she worked on her lung capacity since Lunar and
Alundra. She's practically yelling in the Rayearth opening, whereas
before she sound like she had a hard time keeping pace with the music
and always sounded out of breath. Still, after the excellent job WD
did on Lunar2(use her more, she can really sing!)I was expecting quite
a bit more. And now if you will excuse me the flames seem to be
burning down my house!
On Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:47:30 -0700, vire...@workingdesigns.com (Victor
Ireland) wrote:
>In article <35c7d1cb...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, guy...@usa.net says...
>> The last thing I'm going to say is that people dislike it not because
>> of us "hyper-purists"(we're also the ones who hate Myst BTW) but
>> because the goddamn woman can't sing!!
>>
>
J. Barragan
>
> In article <35c7d1cb...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, guy...@usa.net says...
> > The last thing I'm going to say is that people dislike it not because
> > of us "hyper-purists"(we're also the ones who hate Myst BTW) but
> > because the goddamn woman can't sing!!
> >
>
> Considering that she also did the original LUNAR opening (well received),
> and Alundra's close (also well received), I think she CAN sing. She just
> can't sound like you *want* her to for *this* particular song.
Ugh, she's the one who did that horrible LUNAR opening? I HATE that
song. Truth be told, I find her voice on the Rayearth opening music to
be pretty good (it's kinda hard to understand, but that's probably the
quality of the AVI), and the song itself sounds nice, though I like the
original a little better. I've got no complaints.:)
Michael Mr. Groovy Toole
vire...@workingdesigns.com (Victor Ireland) wrote:
> Considering that she also did the original LUNAR opening (well received),
> and Alundra's close (also well received), I think she CAN sing. She just
> can't sound like you *want* her to for *this* particular song.
No, Vic... her timing and her pitch are both all over the place in the
song. I just checked it out, it's... unpleasant.
Well, I'll still buy the game, of course, but I think I'll cover my
ears during the OP.
B-Univ Fan
>song. I just checked it out, it's... unpleasant.
>
> Well, I'll still buy the game, of course, but I think I'll cover my
>ears during the OP.
I agree. Mute button all the way.
Virtua Flapper
> The thing is, I want anime and anime related games to get -popular-
> enough in the states to the point where companies can get away with doing
> lots of stuff just plain subtitled, because everyone will expect it to
> will need to be dubbed. Most people out there still wouldn't recongize it
> if it came up and bit them on the ass.
I thought it was pretty impressive that Sega subtitled the songs and the
"Saturn mode" conversations in Last Bronx. They left out the second disc
though, which kinda sucks. I remember Acclaim saying that they were going
to subtitle Psychic Force for Playstation....unfortunately, it ended up
dubbed. At least they left the original Japanese song though :)
SalCinGon
I keep hearing you guys said how bad the English version of the opening is
compare to the import version. Given the fact that I never play the import
version, I think the US version sounds pretty good. Now, does anyone know
where I can download the import opening song so I can compare? Thanks.
Kuo
William Geiger
>
>In article <35c7d1cb...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, guy...@usa.net
says...
>> The last thing I'm going to say is that people dislike it not because
>> of us "hyper-purists"(we're also the ones who hate Myst BTW) but
>> because the goddamn woman can't sing!!
>>
>
>and Alundra's close (also well received), I think she CAN sing. She
just
>can't sound like you *want* her to for *this* particular song.
>
>--
Errr.. I really didn't care for the LUNAR opening song, to cheesy.
"Gin makes a man mean!"
"Everyone booze up and riot!"
Milk&Cheese
Colt Duncan
guy...@usa.net wrote in article
<35c6dfa8...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
> Deciding to take a break from the Apollo Smile flamewar in r.a.a.f. I
> mosyed on over to the WD web site and DL the Rayearth opening. Low
> and behold, here's something that makes Apollo Smile sound like Mariah
> Carrie!
>
> Face it Vic, you f*cked up. Even the Spice girls got singing lessons
> and I could make better music on an old Yamaha syntheziser. I could
> also send you a cd I have of public domain sound effects I have lying
> around. ANY of them sound better then the ones you used in the
> opening. Oh and take the "swoosh" sound effect out of Clef's cape
> whipping around, OK?
>
>
>
>
>
Screw all of you, I liked it AND the Lunar opening :) And those freaks
comparing it to Christmas NiGHTS should be shot in the face, it's nowhere
NEAR as bad as that.
Colt Duncan
Swozniak
<<Screw all of you, I liked it AND the Lunar opening :) And those freaks
comparing it to Christmas NiGHTS should be shot in the face, it's nowhere
NEAR as bad as that.>>
...But I *LOVE* the music in Christmas Nights! (Sobbing like a 5-year old
girl)
James Mark Robillos
>> It is what it is. We were EXTREMELY constrained in what we could do
>> on this title. The only other option is to cut the opening entirely,
>> and I won't do that.
>
>to be the original song or music....so I think a cool instrumental would
>work. At this point, I just want to play it, so I guess I'm going to have
>
>==============================================================================
> THE FLAPPER!!!!!!!
>==============================================================================
>"...it's offensive to short deformed || "Cram it with walnuts, ugly!"
> people who look like testicles." || -Homer Simpson
> -Tom Stern discussing E.T. ||
>==============================================================================
>
>
--
Yeesh people, its just the opening song!! If ya don't like it, hit start and
skip it (provided you can skip it altogether)! I for one can't stand it
either, but the argument going back and forth won't change a thing (unless Vic
decides to change the OP, which I doubt he will)...
-------------------------------------------------------------
James Mark Robillos
ma...@ptw.com
http://www.ptw.com/~markr
You are not alive, you are merely being allowed to live...
Kinpachi Sensei, Episode 17
-------------------------------------------------------------
MoonPrince
>
> I keep hearing you guys said how bad the English version of the opening is
> compare to the import version. Given the fact that I never play the import
> version, I think the US version sounds pretty good. Now, does anyone know
> where I can download the import opening song so I can compare? Thanks.
original AVI file of op w/original sound effects as well:
http://www.fool.simplenet.com/music/mkr1.zip
mp3 of "Yuzurenai Negai(Unyielding Wish)", the opener for Rayearth:
http://serpent.tnug.net/tnuglock.tcm/mp3/MP3S/48/mkre/MKRE-(unknown)-Yururenainegai.mp3
looking for other formats...
well, i could do a .wav file if you reall want it.
MoonPrince
th...@ucdavis.edu
http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~hueyt
eas...@segacon.com
Christmas NiGHTS, not the music. Everyone knows NiGHTS has great music. And I
repeat, I like the singing, ha ha!
In article <199808052038...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Tubilio
guy...@usa.net
opening from the anime(which is identical)may be there in mp3 format.
On 5 Aug 1998 16:57:22 GMT, salc...@aol.com (SalCinGon) wrote:
>>> No, Vic... her timing and her pitch are both all over the place in the
>>>song. I just checked it out, it's... unpleasant.
>>>
>>> Well, I'll still buy the game, of course, but I think I'll cover my
>>>ears during the OP.
>>
>>I agree. Mute button all the way.
>
>I keep hearing you guys said how bad the English version of the opening is
>compare to the import version. Given the fact that I never play the import
>version, I think the US version sounds pretty good. Now, does anyone know
Darrius Joiner
the little jokes and crap) then that's OK. But if they leave out things or
change the game (i.e. make it easier than it already was, drastically change
the storyline and/or dialogue) then this could pose a problem. There is a lot
of spoken dialogue in the import version and lots of anime cut scenes from the
original series. If any of this has been tampered with then I don't know if
I'll keep it. Keep in mind that I've played the import at least 6 times,
watched the original Japanese series on which this game is based, and have
waited almost 3 freaking years. I not talking about so called 'westernizing'
but changing the title drastically where it isn't even the same as the import
(i.e. New Japan Wrestling/ Activison's Powermove Wrestling). This has nothing
to do with being, as Mr. Ireland put it, "a wannabe Otaku". It has more to do
with what WD will change just to put the game out. And if it is inferior then
why should we settle. I'd say the same to ANY company that. But we'll all see
for ourselves WHENEVER the title is released. I'm not bashing WD, but rememebr
this game has been on their 'backburner' status for some time now and they
don't expect to make any money on the title. So it begs the question will they
'skimp' on some things because of money making projects? If so then why even
release the title? I'm sure the game will be decent, but like I said we'll
see....
Michael Mr. Groovy Toole
MoonPrince <ez07...@mailbox.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
> But you never answered my question. Is the reason you can't use
> original voices because of policy? Or because it's too costly?
It's a rights issue. As the tune was popular in Japan, getting
licensing rights for it in the U.S. were too damn expensive. The
solution: a new English-language version. Would you rather Vic and
company have used a different song entirely?
This is a very common problem, especially in anime. The reason Macross
7 hasn't shown up in U.S. video stores is because the music rights are
prohibitively expensive, and even big dumb anime companies know that
-everyone- will turn up their nose if they tried to put brand new music in
there. Another example is the forthcoming dub of Kiki's Delivery
Service-- Disney couldn't get the rights to the original OP and ED. I'm
sure this was convenient for them, though, as they probably would have
used english-language versions if they could have.
> Just remember Vic, that Rayearth is an anime first. And if you
> can't please that crowd, than you lose half the appeal of the game.
No, Rayearth is a manga first. ;-) The appeal of the game is a
subjective thing; I'm expecting it to be enjoyable despite altered music
and new English-language voices.
Hey Vic, out of curiousity, did you guys get your voice actors from the
Ocean Group? They're a post-production outfit up in Vancouver, they
produced the Rayearth pilot for TMS a few years back.
> > Constructive criticism is one thing, but raving otaku-wannabe rants
> > accomplish nothing.
>
> excuse me Vic? I really had respect for you before. I defended
> you all these times when people bashed you for delaying three years to get
> names. And now you think I'm ranting? Strike 1: You made Umi swear.
Wait a minute, Umi *swears* in Rayearth? When was this let out?
Where can I hear an example of this? Vic?
> WTF? It's a kid show. Even if you don't know a thing about anime,
> wouldn't a mother go to EB or something see cute little characters, buy it
> for their kid... only to see "That B*@CH from the other day..." on the
> screen?
This could be a sticking point, as there's plenty of cussing in the
original Japanese version of Dragonball Z. Still, I don't remember Umi
snarling, "Kuttabare, Mokona!!" a lot.
Strike 2: Sorry Vic, but i think the opening stinks. If you're
> limited on resources, fine. But I still don't know why you couldn't keep
> original music... or if anything, just keep it an instrumental.
See above. Personally, I'd still rather have a painfully mediocre
vocal than an instrumental.
> And now strike 3: WTF did i say? Did I not say exactly what I
> didn't like about your opening? Did I not exactly say why i thought what
> I thought? My "rant" also DID have some suggestions and questions for you
> and other companies: why have voice at all? I mean, in Shining Force 3,
> domestic people wouldn't know there was voices unless they've played the
> import.
MoonPrince, it's kind of unfortunate, but 90% of the gamers and anime
fans out there would rather see their stuff in English. Since the market
for this stuff is pretty damn tiny, Working Designs can't afford to pay
SAG talent, so they have to get what they can.
> If you still don't care for what I'm asking, suggesting, whatever,
> just say so. No need to call me a "ranter". What do you care? I already
> have the import Rayearth so you know I'm not getting yours. What do I
> care? For the same reason... but I do care. For the sake of the anime
> community. For the sake of the gaming community.
I think you're overreacting. (Though Vic's message was pretty
gauche.) This game is already going to lose a ton of money for Vic & Co.
Perhaps it would have been more cost-effective to subtitle the game, but
that may well have required major alterations in the code, plus WD would
have run the risk of alienating fans who just plum want to see it in
English. And at this point, it's tough to tell which is the larger
audience, with the Saturn going bye-bye in the states.
My copy's pre-ordered. I'll pass a verdict on it when I play it.
(You know, Sakura Taisen isn't here yet! And I'm going to Otakon in
two hours, so I won't be able to play until after the weekend! Argh!
Curse Buy Rite!)
SR Dominguez
> No, Vic... her timing and her pitch are both all over the place in the
> song. I just checked it out, it's... unpleasant.
You've really hit the nail on the head there. But there are winds
forebo...DING and there is A... darkstorm that soon will pass.
Here's my sig block, looking wretched.
Simon Rafael Dominguez (u5...@ugd.keele.ac.uk)
SR Dominguez
> Considering that she also did the original LUNAR opening (well received),
> and Alundra's close (also well received), I think she CAN sing. She just
> can't sound like you *want* her to for *this* particular song.
Do me a favour, Vic. You did a great re-writing of the original Lunar tune,
and the woman totally butchered it.
SR Dominguez
> I agree. Mute button all the way.
Is the voice acting any good? Much as I hated Albert Odyssey, I must admit
that it was a fine translation.
B-Univ Fan
>purists won't like it (as we have seen), but it's good enough to give
>the user a similar feel to the original.
Vic, the lyrics and sound effects are fine, but PLEASE get someone
else to sing it... she's okay midway through the song, but at the
beginning and end her voice is WAY crack-y.
Victor Ireland
The only things changing (radically different from the original):
The game is about 50% harder. The original was WAY too easy. You can
actually DIE in the US release.
The in-game audio past the intro (everything up to Precia's mansion
is considered "intro") is gone. However, the interludes with Zagat
at the Castle are still there, as are the "Mysterious Cephiro Lectures"
through the game from Precia and Clef. The in-town text was simply too
annoying and slowed the flow of the game too much. In its place, we
added spoken diary entries from Hikaru/Umi/Fuu/Innova. If you see an
entry you want to hear, you press a button and they read it. All animation
scenes and audio are intact.
That's it. And, for the record, if we were "skimping" on the title, we
wouldn't be producing hi-res disc labels, a color manual, and feature
the usual [expensive] foil-stamping.
Victor Ireland
"Mr. Groovy" Toole) says...
> Hey Vic, out of curiousity, did you guys get your voice actors from the
> Ocean Group? They're a post-production outfit up in Vancouver, they
> produced the Rayearth pilot for TMS a few years back.
>
Ugh! Oh GOD NO! That dub was TERRRRRRIBLE. In fact, THEY used a new opening
song entirely, and it was SOOOOO bad. Another problem I had with their dub
was that ALL three main female characters sounded exactly alike (in addition
to the crappy new names, Marine, Luce, Anemone).
Victor Ireland
ez07...@mailbox.ucdavis.edu says...
> my question: Why a mix at all? You say you guys couldn't get
> access to Naomi's vocals. Ok. Why can't you use the karaoke version and
> place the English speaking person to sing over it?
>
Not just vocals. Vocals. Lyrics. Melody. The whole shibang. We were only
allowed to make something from scratch that *sounded like* the original, but
not the same. It's very restricting.
Victor Ireland
> just say so. No need to call me a "ranter". What do you care? I already
> have the import Rayearth so you know I'm not getting yours. What do I
> care? For the same reason... but I do care. For the sake of the anime
> community. For the sake of the gaming community.
>
What ticked me off about your succession of posts is that they are SO
hardcore anime-fan that you were ignoring things I have posted MANY
MANY times here recently and in the past (regarding song rights, etc).
The original song's NOT going to happen, and for very GOOD reasons that
have been explained time and again.
And PLEASE! The voices in Rayearth are nowhere NEAR as horrendous as
the "we're talking in our sleep" Shining Force 3. We've NEVER done
anything even CLOSE to that bad, so why would we start now?
Victor Ireland
> wouldn't a mother go to EB or something see cute little characters, buy it
> for their kid... only to see "That B*@CH from the other day..." on the
> screen?
>
I think that fictional "mother" would be much more upset by the barbie
nudie transformation scenes in the opening than that. Besides, Umi
only swears once, and it's appropriately in hr JOURNAL (personal thought)
rather than the GAME.
MoonPrince
one post. Bear with me:
> It's a rights issue. As the tune was popular in Japan, getting
> licensing rights for it in the U.S. were too damn expensive. The
> solution: a new English-language version. Would you rather Vic and
> company have used a different song entirely?
No, but like I said, i would have "preferred" an instrumental in
that case. But ok, this is established: too expensive for original song.
> Wait a minute, Umi *swears* in Rayearth? When was this let out?
> Where can I hear an example of this? Vic?
I dunno if she speaks it outloud but check out the EGM where they
do an RPG special(highlighting Square stuff, but has some others like
Panzer Dragoon Saga, SF3, and Rayearth). It's in the pic where Umi wrote
in her diary.
> This could be a sticking point, as there's plenty of cussing in the
> original Japanese version of Dragonball Z. Still, I don't remember Umi
> snarling, "Kuttabare, Mokona!!" a lot.
Hmm.. but it can also be said that there are no swear words at all
in Japanese... it's all up to interpretation...
> See above. Personally, I'd still rather have a painfully mediocre
> vocal than an instrumental.
That's a rather odd statement considering you mentioned in a
previous post that you'll "hold your ears during the opening".
> MoonPrince, it's kind of unfortunate, but 90% of the gamers and anime
> fans out there would rather see their stuff in English.
As would I, but I see no problems with subtitles. PDS did it with
very good success. Some complain about it, but in general, people thought
it enhanced the "different atmosphere" feeling.
> I think you're overreacting. (Though Vic's message was pretty
> gauche.) This game is already going to lose a ton of money for Vic & Co.
Yes, but the problem I had was that Vic said that I was raving,
which kinda implied that my concerns weren't worth his time. And I was
pretty pissed off that he seemed to be replying to everyone else's replies
but mine. But today... he finally did address some of them. So i've
calmed down quite a bit.
> Perhaps it would have been more cost-effective to subtitle the game, but
> that may well have required major alterations in the code, plus WD would
> have run the risk of alienating fans who just plum want to see it in
> English.
See, this is what I don't understand. If PDS wasn't spoken in
Panzerese, in Japanese, what would it be? Same thing to a common gamer,
right? In normal RPGs you read the text anyway. So why do people
complain about subs when really... RPGs are text... So if they speak in
any language, shouldn't that be a bonus? I mean, like I said, you're
supposed to be reading anyway. So why all these "but it's in Japanese!"
people? I mean, come on. Like hearing another language is going to
pollute you. But my point is, w/o voices, it'd be a game. W/voices,
whether english or japanese, it's better. So why all the complaints about
japanese language english subtitled?
But for Rayearth's case, the only problem i can see is the movie
files that would need to be subbed.
> (You know, Sakura Taisen isn't here yet! And I'm going to Otakon in
> two hours, so I won't be able to play until after the weekend! Argh!
> Curse Buy Rite!)
Hope ya enjoy it!
Now, onto Vic posts:
>> my question: Why a mix at all? You say you guys couldn't get
>Not just vocals. Vocals. Lyrics. Melody. The whole shibang. We were
>only allowed to make something from scratch that *sounded like* the
> original, but not the same. It's very restricting.
Ok, i can accept this. Thank you for answering my question as I
was beginning to think you couldn't care less.
>> And now you think I'm ranting? Strike 1: You made Umi swear.
>> WTF? It's a kid show. Even if you don't know a thing about anime,
>> wouldn't a mother go to EB or something see cute little characters, buy
>> it for their kid... only to see "That B*@CH from the other day..." on
>> screen?
>I think that fictional "mother" would be much more upset by the barbie
>nudie transformation scenes in the opening than that. Besides, Umi
>only swears once, and it's appropriately in hr JOURNAL (personal thought)
>rather than the GAME.
Well, ok. I still don't like the fact that she does swear, but
it's a little comforting to know you didn't make it an all-out cuss-fest.
>What ticked me off about your succession of posts is that they are SO
>hardcore anime-fan that you were ignoring things I have posted MANY
>MANY times here recently and in the past (regarding song rights, etc).
Yes, but I didn't know you couldn't use any part of the original
song, only that the song was out of your league. I didn't know that the
music couldn't be used(which is really, one of the major reasons I don't
like the English version).
> The original song's NOT going to happen, and for very GOOD reasons that
> have been explained time and again.
And I was never telling you to get the rights to it. If it's too
expensive, it's too expensive. I was basically telling the world, "Hey, i
think the English song sucks- compared to the original and even standing
alone..." I understand that you "can't" or "won't" change the opening
now. I'm just saying how I feel about it.
And, yes, I do think it would have been better if left an
instrumental or something, but you say that you want to maintain the
original feel. I will accept that, but just recognize that most of the
feedback on it is negative. 'nuff said.
>And PLEASE! The voices in Rayearth are nowhere NEAR as horrendous as
>the "we're talking in our sleep" Shining Force 3. We've NEVER done
>anything even CLOSE to that bad, so why would we start now?
I wouldn't know actually. The only WD game I own is Dragon Force
and as far as I know, there's no voice overs(then again, i only played it
one time for about 5 hrs. not a bad game, it's just i have a bunch of
other games. i'll go back to it one day.) And if you say they're not as
bad as SF3(thank goodness cuz that thing is really horrible...), i'll
trust you.
and lastly, Vic, I want to point out a few things.
1. I respect you as a gamer. In my mind, you really have great taste when
it comes to games. I haven't played half of the WD titles you've acquired
rights to or brought out, but I do know that if I picked up any of them,
it'd be a game that you yourself enjoy playing, and that means a lot.
2. I respect you(and WD) as a company. I love that you try to bring out
games that otherwise wouldn't be here. Why wouldn't someone pick up Lunar
series? Why wouldn't someone bring out Thunderforce V? Why wouldn't
Sega translate their own game-Rayearth? These answers are beyond me. But
I do like what you do. I also respect that you try to make the packaging
the best out there, even when you don't have to.
3. I respect you as a person. I think it's great that you post and answer
others on this newsgroup, the Sony NG, and maybe even others. No other
executive of a company would do this- ie actually listen to what real
gamers want. Even if you do take some criticism, it's great that you
still care enough to continue posting.
4. I DIDN'T respect the fact that you called some of us here, "raving
otaku-wannabes". I don't believe EVERY person who doesn't like the
English opening IS an anime-otaku by default. Do you like "Yuzurenai
Negai" btw? If so, then even you can't deny it's better than the English
one. Whether the English one is horrible is up to opinion.
Now, I mentioned above that saying we were "raving" implies that
my rants weren't worth your time. When you didn't reply to my concerns,
yet continued to reply to others, you must understand that this only made
my anger grow. And it made me feel, above all else... betrayed.
Now, i am thankful that you did eventually reply addressing some
of my questions so I can move on in life...
So to summarize, I dislike a few things I've seen from English
Rayearth. This is ok. Everyone will have different opinions. Some
people may enjoy seeing Umi swear. I for one, do not. But it's ok. No
harm done.
I disliked the way you handled responding to negative comments on
the English Rayearth opening, and possibly negative comments in general.
Again, everyone has different opinions, but it seemed like that while
people generally insulted the song, you were insulting us personally.
And this is what made me lose it.
I just hope you understand WHY I lost it. So I apologize if I was
too blunt in my responses. And I hope this NG will be a little more
peaceful from now on...
Still a gamer,
-mp
Paul J Chi
Honestly, I don't like WD's version as much as the original. However, I
won't disrespect the singer or Vic because their rendition didn't live up
to my expectations. I mean come on, nobody is going to sound good next to
Naomi Tamura (if you liked the original to begin with; my brother can't
stand it). One should take into account that Vic was very constrained as
to what he could do with the opening. I think he and the singer did a good
job, all things considered. I think it's a good song in its own right, and
I have the utmost respect for their efforts.
If you thought the song was bad, that's fine. But to go further and call
the singer tone-deaf or to otherwise insult her is out of line. If you
didn't like it, just say so. You don't have to insult her, especially
considering that the singer isn't here to defend herself and that you're
talking about what she does for a living. Would you like it if someone
looked at your work, said that it sucked and that you had no talent? (That
Seinfeld episode comes to mind, heh.) Just because it's Usenet doesn't
mean that you shouldn't show a minimum of respect, and it doesn't mean
that your actions have no consequences.
This kind of thing all boils down to a matter of opinion, now matter how
"qualified" or unqualified the opinions may be. People will disagree, but
people don't need to insult each other.
Raymond McKeithen II
Paul J Chi wrote in message ...
>Well, let me just put in my 2 cents.
>Naomi Tamura (if you liked the original to begin with; my brother can't
>stand it).
Thank you, so I'm not the only one. I haven't been in this thread because I
personally don't have any interest in the US version of Rayearth. (I've had
the Japanese original since it came out, and I'm one of those people that
will never like dubbed anime or games.) I have always *despised* that
opening song; I always pushed the button to skip it when I played the game
(after hearing it once). I like many Japanese anime and game vocal songs,
but I cannot stand this particular one.
remove *2* nospam's for email...
Raymond
ya...@concentric.net
original Japanese names...well except Luce, yeah that one I have to
admit is a crappy name but Marine and Anemone are about as bad
as Umi and Fuu. Seriously, a girl named Fuu?! Even in Japanese,
that name sounded pretty awkward for a girl. If I didn't like Fuu so
much I'd call her name crappy too! I like the name Umi though.
Of course all this is a bit moot since the game's almost done.
...we hope.
Yasu
Victor Ireland
The problem was very apparent in the TMS dub where Luce sounded
like people were calling Hikaru a whore in conversation (calling
her LOOSE), and in battle scenes where the other two girls would
call Fuu, and it sounded like they were saying "AN ENEMY!". Very
confusing.
guy...@usa.net
concerned. We're talking about the fact that we think YOUR version is
horrendous. And using a "their's was worse excuse" just won't cut it.
I know it's to late to change it but for future translations please
keep in mind that if you can't get the original you should drop the
idea of trying to emulate it and do something different altogether.
Your other "original" musical work on the Alundra opening was a rather
cheap effort also.
On Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:27:19 -0700, vire...@workingdesigns.com (Victor
Ireland) wrote:
>In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.98080...@dogbert.ucdavis.edu>,
>ez07...@mailbox.ucdavis.edu says...
>> If you still don't care for what I'm asking, suggesting, whatever,
>> just say so. No need to call me a "ranter". What do you care? I already
>> have the import Rayearth so you know I'm not getting yours. What do I
>> care? For the same reason... but I do care. For the sake of the anime
>> community. For the sake of the gaming community.
>>
>
>What ticked me off about your succession of posts is that they are SO
>hardcore anime-fan that you were ignoring things I have posted MANY
>MANY times here recently and in the past (regarding song rights, etc).
>The original song's NOT going to happen, and for very GOOD reasons that
>have been explained time and again.
>
D.L. McKnight
MoonPrince <ez07...@mailbox.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
> As would I, but I see no problems with subtitles. PDS did it with
> very good success. Some complain about it, but in general, people thought
> it enhanced the "different atmosphere" feeling.
::nods:: But, not every Japanese game will have the "atmosphere" to
complement subtitles. It's especially confusing when the subtitles are
tagged onto something that Americans see in films or other games and
already associate English dialect to.
BTW, in your quote above, replace "subtitles" with "3D," and the effect
doesn't vary.
> > Perhaps it would have been more cost-effective to subtitle the game, but
> > that may well have required major alterations in the code, plus WD would
> > have run the risk of alienating fans who just plum want to see it in
> > English.
>
> See, this is what I don't understand. If PDS wasn't spoken in
> Panzerese, in Japanese, what would it be? Same thing to a common gamer,
> right? In normal RPGs you read the text anyway. So why do people
> complain about subs when really... RPGs are text... So if they speak in
> any language, shouldn't that be a bonus?
::shakes his head:: Nah-ah. See, reading text in boxes when there's very
little to nothing going down on the screen is one thing. But, reading
subtitles while there's plenty of action on the screen with it is
another. When there is a lot of something happening on the screen, having
to read subtitles runs the possibility of one missing out on any number of
details that were meant to be presented in the animation only. Anime
doesn't have this problem, as one could just rewind the tape, or view it
again later. But, video games? Not many people would want to play
through a game for 20-40 hours, then go through it again to view even 5 to
10 seconds of animation they missed while reading subtitles.
::sighs:: Though, I guess all of that is for naught if companies spend
more time deciding between subtitles and dubs only for the sake of
whichever costs less.
> I mean, like I said, you're
> supposed to be reading anyway. So why all these "but it's in Japanese!"
> people? I mean, come on. Like hearing another language is going to
> pollute you. But my point is, w/o voices, it'd be a game. W/voices,
> whether english or japanese, it's better. So why all the complaints about
> japanese language english subtitled?
It's just inconvenient to some. (Although, I'm used to it.) I've heard
more complaints about the subtitles rather than the language spoken.
> Now, onto Vic posts:
> 1. I respect you as a gamer. In my mind, you really have great taste when
> it comes to games. I haven't played half of the WD titles you've acquired
> rights to or brought out, but I do know that if I picked up any of them,
> it'd be a game that you yourself enjoy playing, and that means a lot.
>
> 2. I respect you(and WD) as a company. I love that you try to bring out
> games that otherwise wouldn't be here. Why wouldn't someone pick up Lunar
> series? Why wouldn't someone bring out Thunderforce V? Why wouldn't
> Sega translate their own game-Rayearth? These answers are beyond me. But
> I do like what you do. I also respect that you try to make the packaging
> the best out there, even when you don't have to.
>
> 3. I respect you as a person. I think it's great that you post and answer
> others on this newsgroup, the Sony NG, and maybe even others. No other
> executive of a company would do this- ie actually listen to what real
> gamers want. Even if you do take some criticism, it's great that you
> still care enough to continue posting.
I'd have to second those items.
--
D.L. McKnight
AIM: FadedStarX
IRC (DALnet and EFNet): FadedStar (or FadedAway, depends on my mood.)
"A star is destined to brighten the darkness where it can, but a faded star resides dormant in quiet reconcile to the inspiration cherished until the time arrives to truly shine and bring the most awe-inspiring light to the darkness." - myself
"...We don't need to have games out for the holidays. You ship it when it's fucking finished." - Mike Wilson, CEO, Gathering of Developers (interview, Next Generation, May '98 issue, page 14).
Mark Tassin
Michael Mr. Groovy Toole wrote:
> I, personally, am part of the confusing demographic that loves the
> originals but still enjoys seeing good english dubs. (and they do exist,
> no matter what you believe.) I'm planning on grabbing the
> English-language Rayearth game (got a Saturn for the express purpose...
> and cause they're so damn cheap these days), and if I find it so painfully
> inferior to what I'm used to (I have lots of Rayearth fansubs), I'll just
> roll my eyes, grit my teeth, and buy the original version.
I'm in your demographic, I like Ranma 1/2 dubbed, Tenchi I can take either way,
Slayers Dubbed is awesome, yet I preferred Lodoss war subtitled, as I did
Bubblegum Crisis. Personally I'm hoping the intro is just an MPG file and I
can use my CDR burner to create me a Rayearth CD using the MPG I have of the
intro already from a Fansub.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Tassin is an avid RPG/Anime Otaku. You can check out what he's done
for Big Eyes Small Mouth & other RPGs at the links below:
Anime Related RPG Material
http://www.flash.net/~crypto/animerpg/index.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Azrael1744
>I'm in your demographic, I like Ranma 1/2 dubbed, Tenchi I can >take either
way,
>Slayers Dubbed is awesome, yet I preferred Lodoss war subtitled, >as I did
>Bubblegum Crisis.
I'm not a die hard dub hater either, but Record of Lodoss War was just bad.
Despite the rather low budget animation, ROLW is one of my favorites, and when
I heard the dubbed version of Deedlit on the Science Fiction channel, I just
had to turn it off after about five seconds. They made here into a very
juvenile, whiny bitch, pardon my French.
Quinn Seed
that great, fine, but who didn't buy Resident Evil because of the shitty voice
acting? Give credit for even HAVing a singer, and an English version. So the
song or the voice isn't all that, so what? Will it keep MKR from being a great
game? Nope.
~Quinn Seed
Visit the 'Players'
http://members.aol.com/quinnseed/players.html
Quinn Seed
the anime, never played the import, and haven't DL'd the .avi (slow PC) But
insulting Vic AND the singer was a low blow. If the game is still good and
still coming, what's the big fuckin deal? Get off.
James Mark Robillos
>
>In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.98080...@dogbert.ucdavis.edu>,
>MoonPrince <ez07...@mailbox.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>> But you never answered my question. Is the reason you can't use
>> original voices because of policy? Or because it's too costly?
>
>licensing rights for it in the U.S. were too damn expensive. The
>solution: a new English-language version. Would you rather Vic and
>company have used a different song entirely?
>
>7 hasn't shown up in U.S. video stores is because the music rights are
>prohibitively expensive, and even big dumb anime companies know that
>-everyone- will turn up their nose if they tried to put brand new music in
>there. Another example is the forthcoming dub of Kiki's Delivery
>Service-- Disney couldn't get the rights to the original OP and ED. I'm
>sure this was convenient for them, though, as they probably would have
>used english-language versions if they could have.
>
>> Just remember Vic, that Rayearth is an anime first. And if you
>> can't please that crowd, than you lose half the appeal of the game.
>
> No, Rayearth is a manga first. ;-) The appeal of the game is a
>subjective thing; I'm expecting it to be enjoyable despite altered music
>and new English-language voices.
>
>Ocean Group? They're a post-production outfit up in Vancouver, they
>produced the Rayearth pilot for TMS a few years back.
>
>> > accomplish nothing.
>>
>> excuse me Vic? I really had respect for you before. I defended
>> you all these times when people bashed you for delaying three years to get
>
> Wait a minute, Umi *swears* in Rayearth? When was this let out?
>Where can I hear an example of this? Vic?
>
>> wouldn't a mother go to EB or something see cute little characters, buy it
>> screen?
> This could be a sticking point, as there's plenty of cussing in the
>original Japanese version of Dragonball Z. Still, I don't remember Umi
>snarling, "Kuttabare, Mokona!!" a lot.
>
--
I believe it would be "Kutabare", since there is no "kut" kana... =P Still,
Umi doesn't cuss much in the anime, its just limited to "chikushou" or
"makai..."
-------------------------------------------------------------
James Mark Robillos
ma...@ptw.com
http://www.ptw.com/~markr
You are not alive, you are merely being allowed to live...
Kinpachi Sensei, Episode 17
-------------------------------------------------------------
Bbobb JJ
>all
>that great, fine, but who didn't buy Resident Evil because of the shitty
>voice
>acting? Give credit for even HAVing a singer, and an English version. So
>the
>song or the voice isn't all that, so what? Will it keep MKR from being a
>great
>game? Nope.
Yeah but the difference is that Resident Evil was supposed to have shitty
voices...they were actually recorded in Japan.....it was supposed look feel and
sound like a B movie. MKR on the other hand should not.
vtpalo...@bigfoot.com
quin...@aol.com (Quinn Seed) wrote:
> What's with all the insults towards the singer? If the song doesn't sound all
> that great, fine, but who didn't buy Resident Evil because of the shitty voice
> acting? Give credit for even HAVing a singer, and an English version. So the
> song or the voice isn't all that, so what? Will it keep MKR from being a great
> game? Nope.
You're right. It'll be the WD gameplay modifications (what the hell do they
know about making games?) and lame-ass jokes that will ruin an otherwise
great game.
I find it ironic that Vic complains about how bad the US MKR pilot was, when
he fucks around with games more than any US company does with anime thats
being put on TV.
So, c'mon Vic, does Hikaru say, "I don't think we're in Tokyo anymore,
Mokona!"
--
Vance Palodichuk
vtpalo...@bigfoot.com
http://www.bigfoot.com/~vtpalodichuk/
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Victor Ireland
> I find it ironic that Vic complains about how bad the US MKR pilot was, when
> he fucks around with games more than any US company does with anime thats
> being put on TV.
>
> So, c'mon Vic, does Hikaru say, "I don't think we're in Tokyo anymore,
> Mokona!"
>
She does now.
vtpalo...@bigfoot.com
vire...@workingdesigns.com (Victor Ireland) wrote:
> In article <6qjedv$ep0$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, vtpalo...@bigfoot.com says...
> > Mokona!"
> >
>
> She does now.
> --
> Don't Believe the Hype -
> Vic
I'm gonna hold you to that, Vic!
ka...@cyberenet.net
>
> Considering that she also did the original LUNAR opening (well received),
> and Alundra's close (also well received), I think she CAN sing. She just
> can't sound like you *want* her to for *this* particular song.
>
well, i think the problem is that the song really doesn't work in english.
it's something about the rhyming and the patterns of the rhythm that make it
much more sensible for japanese.. like how she has to drag out
'dreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeam' and then bunch together latter stuff up so much
that i can't even tell what she's saying from the AVI's sound. hopefully it
will be more appealing in my home.
tr...@uconect.net
vire...@workingdesigns.com (Victor Ireland) wrote:
> In article <6q7sg8$v1d$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, eas...@segacon.com says...
> > I haven't heard the original song and I'm sure WD should have spent the many
> > years it took them to release RayEarth licensing the song, too. But though
it
> > starts out bad, I enjoy the US song. The singer has a nice voice, IMO, and
iit
> > does remind me of dubbed anime.
>
> Another thing that I meant to point out is that:
>
> A> You're comparing a 22Khz compressed mono audio version to a full
> version in the Japanese game and/or laserdisc Duh! OF course the LD's
> tone and balance will be better. Compression accents weird things.
>
> B> The mix isn't final (though close). We won't be changing it
> dramatically, but some things in the song may be better balanced.
>
> C> You can't please "purists", and we don't aspire to. We make
> English versions of Japanese games for AMERICAN audiences. Constructive
> criticism is one thing, but raving otaku-wannabe rants accomplish
> nothing.
>
> Don't Believe the Hype -
> Vic
Wooow, wait a sec here! In Japan American Movies are shown - subtitled. It is
the 'correct' way to relase a movie. It IS an American movie being relased
for a Japanese audience, but because they have been shown and thus grown
accostomed to subtitles, they have come to realize how far superior something
is in it's natural language to some dub. The reason most Americans have not
been clamoring for a subtitled version is because they do not know such
things exist. They have never walked into a movie theartre (I perfer the
European Spelling Too Vic. ;) ) and seen a subtitled movie. While you were in
a tough corner with the rayearth intro as yuzurenai negai is/was a popular
song in japan - you should perhaps make the opcoming relase of Lunar SSS PSX
"Deluxe" truely deluxe by giving American gamers somthing they have never
been brought up to expect - but should expect - subtitles and the original
voice tracks. Working Designs is different from the conglomerates - different
from Sony and Sega, from EA and the makers of Doom Clones and Sports games.
It translate RPGs, and forgotton shooters - both gun and side scrolling -
you do things not becuase they are the most main stream and thus most
profitable - you do them because you see there is more to a video game than
the number of polys it can push. Try somthing new! atatarashii sekai e! (To a
new world!)
Ryan Levine
tr...@uconect.net
Tyler V. Snow
> Wooow, wait a sec here! In Japan American Movies are shown - subtitled. It is
> the 'correct' way to relase a movie. It IS an American movie being relased
> for a Japanese audience, but because they have been shown and thus grown
> accostomed to subtitles, they have come to realize how far superior something
> is in it's natural language to some dub. The reason most Americans have not
> been clamoring for a subtitled version is because they do not know such
> things exist. They have never walked into a movie theartre (I perfer the
> European Spelling Too Vic. ;) ) and seen a subtitled movie. While you were in
> a tough corner with the rayearth intro as yuzurenai negai is/was a popular
> song in japan - you should perhaps make the opcoming relase of Lunar SSS PSX
> "Deluxe" truely deluxe by giving American gamers somthing they have never
> been brought up to expect - but should expect - subtitles and the original
> voice tracks.
I am with Vic on this. After playing Mystical Ninja on N64, which was subtitled, I
do NOT want this in other RPGs like MKR or Lunar on PSX. I would much prefer having
the song sung in English, so that I can watch what is happening on-screen while
still understanding what is being sung. If the opening songs were subtitled, I
would have to choose between either reading the subtitles so that I can understand
the song, or watching what is happening on-screen. Why not just do away with the
subtitles so I can do both, at once......
> Ryan Levine
> tr...@uconect.net
--
Tyler V. Snow
tvs...@nextgenfan.com
SR Dominguez
> > So, c'mon Vic, does Hikaru say, "I don't think we're in Tokyo anymore,
> > Mokona!"
> >
> She does now.
While this is part of the arrogance that I've always hated about WD, this
joke does work because it's a small, snappy thing to say to frivolise the
matter of being hideously displaced into a fantasy world (which is, I
presume, what the original line was all about). At least they're not typing
in whole verses of the Cheers theme for want of a better thing to say any
more.
Here's my sig block, looking wretched.
Simon Rafael Dominguez (u5...@ugd.keele.ac.uk)
SR Dominguez
> acting? Give credit for even HAVing a singer, and an English version. So the
No, give Sega the credit for SUBTITLING Azel.
Marty Chinn
: I am with Vic on this. After playing Mystical Ninja on N64, which was subtitled, I
: do NOT want this in other RPGs like MKR or Lunar on PSX. I would much prefer having
: the song sung in English, so that I can watch what is happening on-screen while
: still understanding what is being sung. If the opening songs were subtitled, I
: would have to choose between either reading the subtitles so that I can understand
: the song, or watching what is happening on-screen. Why not just do away with the
: subtitles so I can do both, at once......
Is it that hard to read both? I had no trouble watching what was going
on, and reading the subtitles at the same time.... but typically when it
comes to music I don't read the words cuz half the time they don't make
sense or really don't fit and just simply enjoy the good music that fits
the animation. I can think of several pieces that fit this mold.
RayEarth, Evangelion, Rockman X4, Rockman 8, etc.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marty Chinn ** E3 - May 28 - 30, 1998 **
Video Source PlayStation, Nintendo 64, Saturn, Imports
973 Foxglove Dr. M-F: 9:30-6:00, Sa: 10:00-3:00 PST, Sun: Closed
Sunnyvale, CA 94086 Ordering, and Preordering info at:
<408> 720-8575 Voice E-Mail: vids...@netcom.com
<408> 720-8576 FAX WWW : http://www.video-source.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
guy...@usa.net
wrote:
>Tyler V. Snow (tvs...@nextgenfan.com) wrote:
>
>: I am with Vic on this. After playing Mystical Ninja on N64, which was subtitled, I
>: do NOT want this in other RPGs like MKR or Lunar on PSX. I would much prefer having
>: the song sung in English, so that I can watch what is happening on-screen while
>: still understanding what is being sung. If the opening songs were subtitled, I
>: would have to choose between either reading the subtitles so that I can understand
>: the song, or watching what is happening on-screen. Why not just do away with the
>: subtitles so I can do both, at once......
>
>Is it that hard to read both? I had no trouble watching what was going
>on, and reading the subtitles at the same time.... but typically when it
>comes to music I don't read the words cuz half the time they don't make
>sense or really don't fit and just simply enjoy the good music that fits
>the animation. I can think of several pieces that fit this mold.
>RayEarth, Evangelion, Rockman X4, Rockman 8, etc.
Of course Goemon is a bad example because they repeat the same clip
several times throughout the course of the game and it has such simple
lyrics. And in Goemon's case it is supposed to be corny and
unintelligible. The entire game is one big farce of Japan,
Westernization, and anime.
Alan Kwan
wrote:
>Tyler V. Snow (tvs...@nextgenfan.com) wrote:
>
>: I am with Vic on this. After playing Mystical Ninja on N64, which was subtitled, I
>: do NOT want this in other RPGs like MKR or Lunar on PSX. I would much prefer having
>: the song sung in English, so that I can watch what is happening on-screen while
>: still understanding what is being sung. If the opening songs were subtitled, I
>: would have to choose between either reading the subtitles so that I can understand
>: the song, or watching what is happening on-screen. Why not just do away with the
>: subtitles so I can do both, at once......
>
>Is it that hard to read both? I had no trouble watching what was going
>on, and reading the subtitles at the same time.... but typically when it
>comes to music I don't read the words cuz half the time they don't make
>sense or really don't fit and just simply enjoy the good music that fits
>the animation. I can think of several pieces that fit this mold.
>RayEarth, Evangelion, Rockman X4, Rockman 8, etc.
I'm with Marty on this. Song lyrics don't make sense translated;
at least none of the English or Chinese translations for the
Japanese songs I've seen does. The poetic nature of the original
words are /entirely/ lost, and that's what lyrics are about.
Reading the translations while listening to the song is simply not
enjoyable. (Subtitles in the original language does help, though,
with my level of listening comprehension.)
Well, I guess it isn't a fair example, since I do understand Japanese
to some extent. But I won't bother with reading translations when
listening to a French song, either. And I prefer subtitles to dubs
for European movies.
"Live life with Heart."
Alan Kwan / ta...@notme.netvigator.com
http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot (hard-core game reviews)
(please remove anti-spam section "notme." from mailing address)
J. Barragan
>
> Quinn Seed <quin...@aol.com> wrote:
> > acting? Give credit for even HAVing a singer, and an English version. So the
>
> No, give Sega the credit for SUBTITLING Azel.
HELL YEAH! Preach on, Simon Rafael Dominguez! I applaud Sega for doing
that...they also subtitled the first two games...which I thought was
pretty damn cool of them to do.
Then again, they probably did it because PD Saga has TONS of voice, and
they couldn't afford to dub it...
There goes my respect for Sega. Heh.
J. Barragan
>
> Victor Ireland <vire...@workingdesigns.com> wrote:
> > > So, c'mon Vic, does Hikaru say, "I don't think we're in Tokyo anymore,
> > > Mokona!"
> > >
>
> > She does now.
>
> While this is part of the arrogance that I've always hated about WD, this
> joke does work because it's a small, snappy thing to say to frivolise the
> matter of being hideously displaced into a fantasy world (which is, I
> presume, what the original line was all about). At least they're not typing
> in whole verses of the Cheers theme for want of a better thing to say any
> more.
They do now.
=P
Shidoshi Naga
> If the opening songs were subtitled, I would have to choose between either
> reading the subtitles so that I can understand the song, or watching what is
> happening on-screen.
Do you also have a problem with walking and chewing gum at the same time? ^_^
^_^ shidoshi
"Because forgiveness... for one like you... could never be an option."
shid...@relief-goddess.org / www.relief-goddess.org / ICQ 2082815
John Hokanson Jr.
<tvs...@nextgenfan.com> wrote:
>tr...@uconect.net wrote:
>
>> Wooow, wait a sec here! In Japan American Movies are shown - subtitled. It is
>> the 'correct' way to relase a movie. It IS an American movie being relased
>> for a Japanese audience, but because they have been shown and thus grown
>> accostomed to subtitles, they have come to realize how far superior something
>> is in it's natural language to some dub. The reason most Americans have not
>> been clamoring for a subtitled version is because they do not know such
>> things exist. They have never walked into a movie theartre (I perfer the
>> European Spelling Too Vic. ;) ) and seen a subtitled movie. While you were in
>> a tough corner with the rayearth intro as yuzurenai negai is/was a popular
>> song in japan - you should perhaps make the opcoming relase of Lunar SSS PSX
>> "Deluxe" truely deluxe by giving American gamers somthing they have never
>> been brought up to expect - but should expect - subtitles and the original
>> voice tracks.
>
>I am with Vic on this. After playing Mystical Ninja on N64, which was subtitled, I
>do NOT want this in other RPGs like MKR or Lunar on PSX. I would much prefer having
>the song sung in English, so that I can watch what is happening on-screen while
>still understanding what is being sung. If the opening songs were subtitled, I
>would have to choose between either reading the subtitles so that I can understand
>the song, or watching what is happening on-screen. Why not just do away with the
>subtitles so I can do both, at once......
>
Unless a scene is highly action oriented, I don't see the problem. I'm
perfectly capible of keeping my eyes trained on the screen while still
reading. Of course, as an anime fan, I have had practice. Plus if a
scene is really cool, I will watch it more then once.
Last Bronx is an example of game subtitling that works.
Vic reminds me of Carl Macek in that he seems to deplore the idea of
subtitling. The people that come after him might be more open to the
idea.
John Hokanson Jr.
Kwan) wrote:
>On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:21:31 GMT, vids...@netcom.com (Marty Chinn)
>wrote:
>
>>Tyler V. Snow (tvs...@nextgenfan.com) wrote:
>>
>>: I am with Vic on this. After playing Mystical Ninja on N64, which was subtitled, I
>>: do NOT want this in other RPGs like MKR or Lunar on PSX. I would much prefer having
>>: the song sung in English, so that I can watch what is happening on-screen while
>>: still understanding what is being sung. If the opening songs were subtitled, I
>>: would have to choose between either reading the subtitles so that I can understand
>>: the song, or watching what is happening on-screen. Why not just do away with the
>>: subtitles so I can do both, at once......
>>
>>Is it that hard to read both? I had no trouble watching what was going
>>on, and reading the subtitles at the same time.... but typically when it
>>comes to music I don't read the words cuz half the time they don't make
>>sense or really don't fit and just simply enjoy the good music that fits
>>the animation. I can think of several pieces that fit this mold.
>>RayEarth, Evangelion, Rockman X4, Rockman 8, etc.
>
>I'm with Marty on this. Song lyrics don't make sense translated;
>at least none of the English or Chinese translations for the
>Japanese songs I've seen does. The poetic nature of the original
>words are /entirely/ lost, and that's what lyrics are about.
>Reading the translations while listening to the song is simply not
>enjoyable. (Subtitles in the original language does help, though,
>with my level of listening comprehension.)
>
I'm with you and Marty on this. I've heard the MKRE opening song, and
it has lost it's poetic nature because they tried to make it
understandable. The Japanese version flowed better and the female
vocalist (if you will forgive me) had more talent (the WD vocalist
seems a little whiny in parts).
Rol Virata
: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:32:24 GMT, ta...@notme.netvigator.com (Alan
: Kwan) wrote:
Hmm, an opition to have either would be too hard?
Rol