PSX VS. SATURN an Observation
Ben Raphael
suck, but they're only the 1st string of Saturn games!" to Saturn-bashers
who complain that Saturn sucks because the games suck. Well, for Saturn
owners that answer with, "Well these games may suck, but they're only the
1st string of Saturn games!" I have to tell you to go look at the 1st
string of PlayStation games... Take a good look guys, and tell me what
you see. You see great, high quality games (on average). And once again,
the PlayStation has taken the same amount of time to come out with those
games, so you can't answer with something like, "Well the PSX has had
more time to make games!". Just compare the starting games... If the PSX
has improved their games THAT much quicker compared to the Saturn, the PSX
must be a better machine...
Well, I'm sure I'll get flames... But I wasn't meaninglessly flaming
anything... The Saturn is a good machine though, just not AS good as the PSX.
--
*******This post/e-mail was brought to you by Ben Raphael Ra...@Crl.com*******
Ben is a anime and manga lover as wellas being a avid video game player that
owns a Sony PlayStation. He checks his mail and the newsgroups everyday and
is on aHellOfaLot. You can find him on IRC as ranma or ranma_Crl. Keep bangin!
John Caporale
Um, sorry. Let's look at this:
Playstation:
Ridge Racer - a rushed driving game, basically crap.
Saturn:
Daytona - Graphically crap, but the game is actually A LOT better game
than RR.
Grand Chaser - Wow, a "first generation" Saturn game /w graphics that
not only kill RR, but the game is fun...and it has weapons, mega
effects, and a HUGE number of cars...replay value.
Playstation:
Raiden 2 - Basically more crap, by 32-bit standards...nothing special.
Saturn:
Panzer Dragoon - AWESOME. Probably the best shooting game ever
made...and wow, it's a "first generation game" too...=)
Playstation:
Space Griffon and Kleak - Basically more crap, cheap rip-offs of DOOM.
Saturn:
Deadalus - Yeah, a DOOM rip-off also...but at least they did it right.
Saturn:
Astal - Wow, I see nothing to compare this to but Jumping
Flash...sorry. I like games that weren't designed for 2 year olds.
Saturn:
Clockwork Knight - Ditto.
Playstation:
Tekken - Basically a graphically awesome game with no substance. More
crap in my book.
Saturn:
Virtua Fighter - An awesome game with AWESOME replay value...
Virtua Fighter Remix - The same awesome game, except it probably looks
as good as Tekken this time around.=)
Playstation:
Toshinden - This game is a joke...The animation is bad, the game play
horrible, this doesn't even deserve to be compared to VF.
Playstation:
Cybersled - No comment. Look at this piece of shit. =)
I just went through every so-called "good" PS game, and found a Saturn
game that completely beats the shit out of it. Hmmm...gee, the PS sure
looks hot...=)
-Joseph Caporale
Nkedlunch
companies have made crap. i'm waiting until the sony release to make a
decision. i think its foolish to rush out and buy a system without fully
seeing its competition first. But come, crazy ivan, look like shit to me.
jumping rabbit ship, shit or whatever doesn't look great to me either. its
all perspective.
besides ea and crystal dynamics, will make great games regardless!
michael damian king " have a nice day"
insert philosophical quote
here
Dellwood
a Saturn today with VF and Panzar and I'm loving them both. I have no
complaint. I didn't buy Daytona because I was out fo funds. Bug! was sold
out. The soccer and Golf game are suppost to be excellent. Clockwork
Knight is the one "average game"
but then again, the PSX can't compare with the Saturn for platform games.
Dellwood
Rfaster
..... Another way to state some of the obvious...
I agree with most of your Comments regarding the PSX and the Saturn..
IT SHOWS that Both the PSX and SATURN have GOOD/ and Not So Good Games>>
People who dont think DAYTONA is up to speed, Need to compare the Arcade
Versions of each game, ( Ridge Racer and Daytona)..
Daytona is MUCH MORE COMPLEX,,, IE,,, Thats why the Saturn's version is
not an Exact Port!
I Think the Saturn could have done what PSX did with Ridge Racer...
(( They Made a game that is somewhat limited,, But Thats EXACTLY what the
ARCADE VERSION IS))
I would love to see PSX tackle DAYTONA>>> Until they Do it will be hard
to compare APPLES to FLOPPIES>
(( When's Grand Chaser due out,,,,?))
..Rfaster...
Quentin Chang
Um.. Okay !! If you can stop using the word "crap" or "shit" for
every thing you describe for Sony, people might believe you are not biased
toward Sega...
: Um, sorry. Let's look at this:
: Playstation:
: Ridge Racer - a rushed driving game, basically crap.
: Saturn:
: Daytona - Graphically crap, but the game is actually A LOT better game
: than RR.
: Grand Chaser - Wow, a "first generation" Saturn game /w graphics that
: not only kill RR, but the game is fun...and it has weapons, mega
: effects, and a HUGE number of cars...replay value.
Gran Chaser is not even out yet !! If you are refering to Gale
Chaser, hahahahahahaha... Do you have bad taste...
Just because you don't like driving games doesn't mean they are "crap", I
would reserve the word "crap" for your post...
: Playstation:
: Raiden 2 - Basically more crap, by 32-bit standards...nothing special.
: Saturn:
: Panzer Dragoon - AWESOME. Probably the best shooting game ever
: made...and wow, it's a "first generation game" too...=)
Raiden project is an arcade port !! Panzer dragoon is a original
title !! Raiden 2 is 2-D and Panzer is 3-D... Again, reserve your biase
for others who don't know better..
: Playstation:
: Space Griffon and Kleak - Basically more crap, cheap rip-offs of DOOM.
: Saturn:
: Deadalus - Yeah, a DOOM rip-off also...but at least they did it right.
Did you even play Space Griffon and Kileak ? Just because you
don't understand Japanese doesn't mean the games suck and are "crap" I
reserve that term again to describe your narrow-mindedness..
: Saturn:
: Astal - Wow, I see nothing to compare this to but Jumping
: Flash...sorry. I like games that weren't designed for 2 year olds.
: Saturn:
: Clockwork Knight - Ditto.
Try to make Astal and Clockwork Knight 3-D.. We can see how
these games compare then...
: Playstation:
: Tekken - Basically a graphically awesome game with no substance. More
: crap in my book.
: Saturn:
: Virtua Fighter - An awesome game with AWESOME replay value...
: Virtua Fighter Remix - The same awesome game, except it probably looks
: as good as Tekken this time around.=)
I don't call a game with over 17 characters with 10 to 15 special
moves lacking substance.. Graphically it romps over VF and it has just
as much "replay" value as VF... At least Tekken has endings for
individual characters...
: Playstation:
: Toshinden - This game is a joke...The animation is bad, the game play
: horrible, this doesn't even deserve to be compared to VF.
That's right !! VF can't even compare to To Shin Den
graphically.. While the replay value and gampeplay might not be great, I
don't think "it is a joke" !!
: Playstation:
: Cybersled - No comment. Look at this piece of shit. =)
Well this piece of shit is coming to the Saturn too....
: I just went through every so-called "good" PS game, and found a Saturn
: game that completely beats the shit out of it. Hmmm...gee, the PS sure
: looks hot...=)
: -Joseph Caporale
Are you really Joe Caporale ? I think he is far more intelligent
and logical to dismiss "every" game that the PS has as being "crap"...
BTW, I have both a Saturn and PSX and I enjoy both tremendously..
Next time try to use words that doesn't involve body excrements and
people might actually listen to you and believe you are not just a high
school punk who got a hold of someone elses' account...
Try to keep your bias out of you ass.. Because that is
what is making you look like...
Try to post something intelligent next time...
Quentin
Psychoboy
says...
>
>Playstation:
>Ridge Racer - a rushed driving game, basically crap.
>Saturn:
>Daytona - Graphically crap, but the game is actually A LOT better game
>than RR.
>Grand Chaser - Wow, a "first generation" Saturn game /w graphics that
>not only kill RR, but the game is fun...and it has weapons, mega
>effects, and a HUGE number of cars...replay value.
>
>Raiden 2 - Basically more crap, by 32-bit standards...nothing special.
>Saturn:
>Panzer Dragoon - AWESOME. Probably the best shooting game ever
>made...and wow, it's a "first generation game" too...=)
>
>Space Griffon and Kleak - Basically more crap, cheap rip-offs of DOOM.
>Saturn:
>Deadalus - Yeah, a DOOM rip-off also...but at least they did it right.
>
>Astal - Wow, I see nothing to compare this to but Jumping
>Flash...sorry. I like games that weren't designed for 2 year olds.
>
>Saturn:
>Clockwork Knight - Ditto.
>
>Tekken - Basically a graphically awesome game with no substance. More
>crap in my book.
>Saturn:
>Virtua Fighter - An awesome game with AWESOME replay value...
>Virtua Fighter Remix - The same awesome game, except it probably looks
>as good as Tekken this time around.=)
>
>Toshinden - This game is a joke...The animation is bad, the game play
>horrible, this doesn't even deserve to be compared to VF.
>
>Cybersled - No comment. Look at this piece of shit. =)
>
>game that completely beats the shit out of it. Hmmm...gee, the PS sure
>looks hot...=)
>-Joseph Caporale
>
Hmm...VERY nice observation...heh. But, two questions:
1) Did you forget Bug!? I think this will kick the crap out of Jumping
Flash, IMHO.
2)What the hell is VF Remix? Is this game real, or did you just make it
up or something? I've never even heard of it...
--
-- Psyc! mcr...@ix.netcom.com
The Psychoboy - banned in 48 states
My home page is up! Go to it:
http://webster.cadcam.iupui.edu:80/~mrehmel/psycho
Patrick Horio
here on the net... I myself bought a Saturn here in SF as they were
released here at EB on Thur. Along w/ it i bought Daytona and
Panzer Dragoon (Virtua Fighter came with it.) My friend is already
getting me a PSX in Japan as well. Anyway, I had a chance to play
Toshinden and Tekken for many, many, many hours on the PSX before I
bought the Saturn. To put thing briefly, the Saturn went back to
EB on Fri. The salesperson said she wasn't surprised; already had
one returned Saturn besided mine already. They sold all 4 on Thu,
and got 2 returns the very next day - that says something...
Virtua Fighters and Daytona were from a technical viewpoint, utter
dissapointments. Ridge Racer is a much more refined game than
Daytona and Tekken makes the Saturn VF look like garbage. Panzer
Dragoon was nice, but gameplay is basically non-existant; I thought
Total Eclipse on the 3DO was a much better 3D shooter (as well
as having impressive graphics).
I don't think Sony really has to worry about rushing its PSX out here
in the US. If anything, I think Sega's little "test-market" ploy
is convincing more people to wait for the other systems to come out...
Psychoboy
>
> I agree with most of your Comments regarding the PSX and the Saturn..
>
> IT SHOWS that Both the PSX and SATURN have GOOD/ and Not So Good
Games>>
>
>People who dont think DAYTONA is up to speed, Need to compare the Arcade
>Versions of each game, ( Ridge Racer and Daytona)..
>
> Daytona is MUCH MORE COMPLEX,,, IE,,, Thats why the Saturn's version is
>not an Exact Port!
>
Exactly. If Daytona had NEVER been released in the arcade and it just
came out on Saturn at the same quality it is now you would be like "Wow,
that game is INCREDIBLE!" but since the arcade version was unbelieveably
(did I spell that right?) better than anything, comparison is
unavoidable...and it DOESN'T match up to the arcade. That's because Sega
went all out with the arcade version. The bottom line is that you won't
be able to play any of the REALLY nice, good arcade games like Daytona
directly on any home system. It just can't happen, you know? Regardless,
the Daytona on Saturn is STILL a great game and just having this version
at home is great!
> I Think the Saturn could have done what PSX did with Ridge Racer...
> (( They Made a game that is somewhat limited,, But Thats EXACTLY what
the
>ARCADE VERSION IS))
>
>
> I would love to see PSX tackle DAYTONA>>> Until they Do it will be
hard
>to compare APPLES to FLOPPIES>
>
>(( When's Grand Chaser due out,,,,?))
>
>..Rfaster...
>
--
John Caporale
(Quentin Chang) writes:
>
>John Caporale (capo...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>
> Um.. Okay !! If you can stop using the word "crap" or "shit" for
>every thing you describe for Sony, people might believe you are not
biased
>toward Sega...
>
>
>
>: Playstation:
>: Ridge Racer - a rushed driving game, basically crap.
>: Saturn:
>: Daytona - Graphically crap, but the game is actually A LOT better
game
>: than RR.
>: Grand Chaser - Wow, a "first generation" Saturn game /w graphics
that
>: not only kill RR, but the game is fun...and it has weapons, mega
>: effects, and a HUGE number of cars...replay value.
>
>Chaser, hahahahahahaha... Do you have bad taste...
>Just because you don't like driving games doesn't mean they are
"crap", I
>would reserve the word "crap" for your post...
>
>: Raiden 2 - Basically more crap, by 32-bit standards...nothing
special.
>: Saturn:
>: Panzer Dragoon - AWESOME. Probably the best shooting game ever
>: made...and wow, it's a "first generation game" too...=)
>
>title !! Raiden 2 is 2-D and Panzer is 3-D... Again, reserve your
biase
>for others who don't know better..
>
>: Playstation:
>: Space Griffon and Kleak - Basically more crap, cheap rip-offs of
DOOM.
>: Saturn:
>: Deadalus - Yeah, a DOOM rip-off also...but at least they did it
right.
>
> Did you even play Space Griffon and Kileak ? Just because you
>don't understand Japanese doesn't mean the games suck and are "crap"
I
>reserve that term again to describe your narrow-mindedness..
>
>
>: Saturn:
>: Astal - Wow, I see nothing to compare this to but Jumping
>: Flash...sorry. I like games that weren't designed for 2 year olds.
>: Saturn:
>: Clockwork Knight - Ditto.
>
> Try to make Astal and Clockwork Knight 3-D.. We can see how
>these games compare then...
>
>
>: Playstation:
>: Tekken - Basically a graphically awesome game with no substance.
More
>: crap in my book.
>: Saturn:
>: Virtua Fighter - An awesome game with AWESOME replay value...
>: Virtua Fighter Remix - The same awesome game, except it probably
looks
>: as good as Tekken this time around.=)
>
> I don't call a game with over 17 characters with 10 to 15 special
>moves lacking substance.. Graphically it romps over VF and it has
just
>as much "replay" value as VF... At least Tekken has endings for
>individual characters...
>
>
>: Playstation:
>: Toshinden - This game is a joke...The animation is bad, the game
play
>: horrible, this doesn't even deserve to be compared to VF.
>
> That's right !! VF can't even compare to To Shin Den
>graphically.. While the replay value and gampeplay might not be
great, I
>don't think "it is a joke" !!
>
>: Playstation:
>: Cybersled - No comment. Look at this piece of shit. =)
>
> Well this piece of shit is coming to the Saturn too....
>
>
>: I just went through every so-called "good" PS game, and found a
Saturn
>: game that completely beats the shit out of it. Hmmm...gee, the PS
sure
>: looks hot...=)
>: -Joseph Caporale
>
> Are you really Joe Caporale ? I think he is far more intelligent
>and logical to dismiss "every" game that the PS has as being "crap"...
>
> BTW, I have both a Saturn and PSX and I enjoy both tremendously..
>Next time try to use words that doesn't involve body excrements and
>people might actually listen to you and believe you are not just a
high
>school punk who got a hold of someone elses' account...
>
>
> Try to keep your bias out of you ass.. Because that is
> what is making you look like...
>
> Try to post something intelligent next time...
>
> Quentin
Sorry if the post offended you...I was VERY upset at the time of
writing this.=) Oh yeah, I used Jumping Flash as a comparison since
there are no 2D platformers out...other than Gunner's Heaven, which
really falls into the "Contra clone" area. You're right, not every PS
game sucks, I was just trying to point out the Saturn, IMO, has the
games right now. However, on a positive note, the Playstation's
problems can be fixed...the polygon abilities of the Saturn can't.
Acutally, you seem a little biased towards the PS...but who's counting,
right? =)
-Joseph Caporale
John Caporale
And you're telling me this post wasn't just a wee-bit biased? =)
-Joseph Caporale
Quentin Chang
: Sorry if the post offended you...I was VERY upset at the time of
: writing this.=) Oh yeah, I used Jumping Flash as a comparison since
: there are no 2D platformers out...other than Gunner's Heaven, which
: really falls into the "Contra clone" area. You're right, not every PS
: game sucks, I was just trying to point out the Saturn, IMO, has the
: games right now. However, on a positive note, the Playstation's
: problems can be fixed...the polygon abilities of the Saturn can't.
: Acutally, you seem a little biased towards the PS...but who's counting,
: right? =)
: -Joseph Caporale
Well Joe,
Actually I am biased toward anything that has gotten me addicted at
the time .. =) A few weeks ago it was Tekken, then it became Daytona
and now Virtua Fighters.. :) I have finally finished the expert course of
Daytona (finally got to use the horse...:) I agree with you that Sega has
some very good games, (that's why I am playing them right now) but I think
Sony definitely has some very good games that Sega fans can't just
brush off.. I like both systems a lot but I would have to what
determines a game of being " good " is very much personal opinion..
I enjoy RR and Daytona just as much because they are two different
kind of racers... I enjoy VF and Tekken because both have their
advantages and disadvantages... The point is that both systems have good
games and I just don't appreciate anyone who trashes the other systems
just because they own a particular system... If you like a particular
system, great but please don't trash the others without provacation...
No hard feelings...
Just letting some steam off...
Quentin
Nikki Pat
>: Playstation:
>: Ridge Racer - a rushed driving game, basically crap.
>: Saturn:
>: Daytona - Graphically crap, but the game is actually A LOT better game
>: than RR.
>: Grand Chaser - Wow, a "first generation" Saturn game /w graphics that
>: not only kill RR, but the game is fun...and it has weapons, mega
>: effects, and a HUGE number of cars...replay value.
> Gran Chaser is not even out yet !! If you are refering to Gale
>Chaser, hahahahahahaha... Do you have bad taste...
Well agreed, Gale Racer sucks. Grand Chaser looks impressive though.
[stuff deleted about Panzer Dragoon and Raiden 2]
>: Playstation:
>: Space Griffon and Kleak - Basically more crap, cheap rip-offs of DOOM.
>: Saturn:
>: Deadalus - Yeah, a DOOM rip-off also...but at least they did it right.
> Did you even play Space Griffon and Kileak ? Just because you
>don't understand Japanese doesn't mean the games suck and are "crap" I
>reserve that term again to describe your narrow-mindedness..
Each has their strong points. I like Daedalus a lot better though.
[stuff deleted about Astral and Clockwork Knight]
>: Playstation:
>: Tekken - Basically a graphically awesome game with no substance. More
>: crap in my book.
>: Saturn:
>: Virtua Fighter - An awesome game with AWESOME replay value...
>: Virtua Fighter Remix - The same awesome game, except it probably looks
>: as good as Tekken this time around.=)
> I don't call a game with over 17 characters with 10 to 15 special
>moves lacking substance.. Graphically it romps over VF and it has just
>as much "replay" value as VF... At least Tekken has endings for
>individual characters...
Replay/Gameplay-wise..I would have to agree with the original poster. The
actions and motion of each character for VF is a lot more fluid than
Tekken. VF has very good game controls and game playability that makes it
tops. In terms of realism, VF is more realistic. Tekken has more
creativity in it though.
I have to agree with you though that tekken is all over VF in the
graphics department.
Although,there are many characters in Tekken. The only ones I really like
are Kazuya (hope I got the name right), Jack, Law, Nina and Michelle.
I still like the characters in VF a lot more even though they're blocky
looking,anyway there's gonna be a remix on the way to solve the problems
and glitches present in the current VF.
>: Playstation:
>: Toshinden - This game is a joke...The animation is bad, the game play
>: horrible, this doesn't even deserve to be compared to VF.
> That's right !! VF can't even compare to To Shin Den
>graphically.. While the replay value and gampeplay might not be great, I
>don't think "it is a joke" !!
I'll have to agree that calling TSD a joke is a bit too harsh.True, VF is
being romped by Toshiden in the graphics department. But it retaliates
in the game-playability to even up. I like playing both TSD and VF though.
Now,if only VF had the looks of TSD or vice versa- TSD had the
playability of VF. :)
>: Playstation:
>: Cybersled - No comment. Look at this piece of shit. =)
> Well this piece of shit is coming to the Saturn too....
It's gonna be a enhanced piece of shit anyway. :)
All IMHO as usual. :)
--
Nikki Pat
sad Little people (sLp '95)
ni...@schwein.pl.my
kag...@imap2.asu.edu
: Um, sorry. Let's look at this:
: Playstation:
: Ridge Racer - a rushed driving game, basically crap.
: Saturn:
: Daytona - Graphically crap, but the game is actually A LOT better game
: than RR.
: Grand Chaser - Wow, a "first generation" Saturn game /w graphics that
: not only kill RR, but the game is fun...and it has weapons, mega
: effects, and a HUGE number of cars...replay value.
: Playstation:
: Raiden 2 - Basically more crap, by 32-bit standards...nothing special.
: Saturn:
: Panzer Dragoon - AWESOME. Probably the best shooting game ever
: made...and wow, it's a "first generation game" too...=)
: Playstation:
: Space Griffon and Kleak - Basically more crap, cheap rip-offs of DOOM.
: Saturn:
: Deadalus - Yeah, a DOOM rip-off also...but at least they did it right.
: Saturn:
: Astal - Wow, I see nothing to compare this to but Jumping
: Flash...sorry. I like games that weren't designed for 2 year olds.
: Saturn:
: Clockwork Knight - Ditto.
: Playstation:
: Tekken - Basically a graphically awesome game with no substance. More
: crap in my book.
: Saturn:
: Virtua Fighter - An awesome game with AWESOME replay value...
: Virtua Fighter Remix - The same awesome game, except it probably looks
: as good as Tekken this time around.=)
: Playstation:
: Toshinden - This game is a joke...The animation is bad, the game play
: horrible, this doesn't even deserve to be compared to VF.
: Playstation:
: Cybersled - No comment. Look at this piece of shit. =)
: I just went through every so-called "good" PS game, and found a Saturn
: game that completely beats the shit out of it. Hmmm...gee, the PS sure
: looks hot...=)
: -Joseph Caporale
It bothers me whenever some misguided person does an innacurate
comparison. The whole point behind the debates, while never downplaying
the prime importance of good software, is the power of the hardware.
Saturn, in many ways, has already been pushed to the limits. VF can't
pack any more polygons without massive screen goof-ups (which is a Sega
trademark). Playstation hasn't even peeked yet, and make no mistake
Tohshinden is infinitely better in every aspect. While it may not be as
fun as VF to some people, this problem can be fixxed in future
installments. Personally, Tohshinden rules and there's no argument.
But, some magazines contend that the replay isn't up to par. Ok, but
that can be fixxed. I really wish Saturn could put more polygons on
screen, though for the life of me, after seeing Panzer Dragoon I have to
conclude that AM2 is either massively incompetant for not pushing the
system to the limits on VF or that Sega is lying about system specs. By the
way, anyone who
caught the advertisement for Saturn in Gamepro days before it's release
will notice that the VF shots are from the arcade. How do I know? The
fingers on the fighters are articulated. On the Saturn, the hands don't
have individual fingers. False advertising was another reason why I
didn't give my visa card to the Software Etc. man the day Saturn was
released.
--
Net Surfer
Chris.
"There is something almost cruel about the Christian's being
placed in a world which in every way wants to pressure him to do just the
opposite of what God bids him to do with fear and trembling in his
innermost being. It would be something like the cruelty of parents if
they were to threaten and sternly order their child to do thus and so-and
then place the child together with the kind of children who would
pressure him in every way to do just the opposite" (1848).
-Soren Kierkegaard.
"BECAUSE OF HIS BLOODY LIFE, IT'S NO ACCIDENT THAT HE WAS INVOLVED IN
THE TROUBLES."
-Samurai Showdown II.
mikeg
: Virtua Fighters and Daytona were from a technical viewpoint, utter
: dissapointments. Ridge Racer is a much more refined game than
: Daytona and Tekken makes the Saturn VF look like garbage. Panzer
: Dragoon was nice, but gameplay is basically non-existant; I thought
: Total Eclipse on the 3DO was a much better 3D shooter (as well
: as having impressive graphics).
: I don't think Sony really has to worry about rushing its PSX out here
: in the US. If anything, I think Sega's little "test-market" ploy
: is convincing more people to wait for the other systems to come out...
Well, I'd like to add that it is a hell of alot easier to program for a one
CPU machine than a two CPU machine like Saturn. Parallel processing takes
alot of technique and time to master. I think Sony is in for a BIG surprise
as developers master the techniques needed to program in parallel. I would'nt
declare Sony a winner just yet. Just my opinion...
--Mikeg
--
*************************************************************************
* SATURN *
* mi...@panix.com ATARI JAGUAR *
* Accessing the Internet with LINUX! 3DO *
* NASCAR FAN!!! Go Dale Earnhardt #3 SEGA/SEGA-CD *
* SUPER NINTENDO *
*************************************************************************
mikeg
: It bothers me whenever some misguided person does an innacurate
: comparison. The whole point behind the debates, while never downplaying
: the prime importance of good software, is the power of the hardware.
: Saturn, in many ways, has already been pushed to the limits. VF can't
: pack any more polygons without massive screen goof-ups (which is a Sega
: trademark). Playstation hasn't even peeked yet, and make no mistake
: --
: Net Surfer
: Chris.
I disagree TOTALY! I do not believe that the Saturn has already been pushed
to it's limit. Let's see:
PSX CPU = (1) 32-BIT RISC Chip
SATURN CPU = (2) SH2 32-RISC Chips
hmm. Sounds and looks to me that the PSX would be alot easier to program,
which probably explains why it's 1st generation games look a little better.
Also sounds and looks to me that the Saturn has more potential with parallel
processing than the PSX which means better games in the future.
Just my opinion....
John Caporale
>: writing this.=) Oh yeah, I used Jumping Flash as a comparison since
>: there are no 2D platformers out...other than Gunner's Heaven, which
>: really falls into the "Contra clone" area. You're right, not every
PS
>: game sucks, I was just trying to point out the Saturn, IMO, has the
>: games right now. However, on a positive note, the Playstation's
>: problems can be fixed...the polygon abilities of the Saturn can't.
>: Acutally, you seem a little biased towards the PS...but who's
counting,
>: right? =)
>: -Joseph Caporale
>
>
> Actually I am biased toward anything that has gotten me addicted
at
>the time .. =) A few weeks ago it was Tekken, then it became Daytona
>and now Virtua Fighters.. :) I have finally finished the expert
course of
>Daytona (finally got to use the horse...:) I agree with you that Sega
has
>some very good games, (that's why I am playing them right now) but I
think
>Sony definitely has some very good games that Sega fans can't just
>brush off.. I like both systems a lot but I would have to what
>determines a game of being " good " is very much personal opinion..
> I enjoy RR and Daytona just as much because they are two
different
>kind of racers... I enjoy VF and Tekken because both have their
>advantages and disadvantages... The point is that both systems have
good
>games and I just don't appreciate anyone who trashes the other systems
>just because they own a particular system... If you like a particular
>system, great but please don't trash the others without provacation...
>
> No hard feelings...
> Just letting some steam off...
>
>
> Quentin
Well, I did have provacation... The original note I relpied to
basically said "Face it, the PS is better than the Saturn" so...
-Joseph Caporale
John Caporale
> * SATURN
*
> * mi...@panix.com ATARI
JAGUAR *
> * Accessing the Internet with LINUX! 3DO
*
> * NASCAR FAN!!! Go Dale Earnhardt #3
SEGA/SEGA-CD *
> * SUPER
NINTENDO *
>
***********************************************************************
*
The guy who posted the original note doesn't have a clue. Gee, the
Saturn has been pushed to the limit!! Then why are people from E3
saying Virtua Cop on the Saturn is perfect and VF2 looks awesome? What
a joke.
-Joseph Caporale
John Caporale
>comparison. The whole point behind the debates, while never
downplaying
>the prime importance of good software, is the power of the hardware.
>Saturn, in many ways, has already been pushed to the limits. VF can't
>pack any more polygons without massive screen goof-ups (which is a
Sega
>trademark). Playstation hasn't even peeked yet, and make no mistake
Um, lemme see....you said that in many ways the Saturn has been pushed
to it's limits, and you use VF as proof. Then later on in your note
you say that Panzer is a lot better than VF...
-Joseph Caporale
terrell gibbs
: Saturn, in many ways, has already been pushed to the limits. VF can't
: pack any more polygons without massive screen goof-ups (which is a Sega
: trademark).
Are you sure? It is rare indeed that the first game for the system pushes
it to its limits. In interviews, Sega's design team didn't think that they
had yet pushed the system to its limits. Getting maximal performance out
of a dual-processor design is likely to take some practice.
Jim Totaro
>I disagree TOTALY! I do not believe that the Saturn has already been pushed
>
>PSX CPU = (1) 32-BIT RISC Chip
>SATURN CPU = (2) SH2 32-RISC Chips
>
>hmm. Sounds and looks to me that the PSX would be alot easier to program,
>which probably explains why it's 1st generation games look a little better.
>Also sounds and looks to me that the Saturn has more potential with parallel
>processing than the PSX which means better games in the future.
>
>Just my opinion....
>
>--Mikeg
Even if they do figure out how to tap more power out of the saturn, they probably
will not spend the extra time it will take.. also the PSX's advantage has nothing
to do with the CPU, its in the Geometry Engine. Look at windows NT, having 2
cpu's does not double the speed of the system.
Jim
David Aldridge
In a previous posting, Jim Totaro (alt...@peak.org) writes:
> mi...@panix.com (mikeg) wrote:
>>I disagree TOTALY! I do not believe that the Saturn has already been pushed
>>to it's limit.
>
> Even if they do figure out how to tap more power out of the saturn, they probably
> will not spend the extra time it will take.. also the PSX's advantage has nothing
Reality check! Atari made the Jaguar, not Sega.
You're trying to argue that the first handful of Saturn games are using
the Saturn to it's fullest potential. The numerous E3 reports here say
otherwise. Sega's past with the SMS and Genesis say otherwise.
(GOLLEVIUS and PHANTASY STAR on the SMS, or GUNSTAR HEORES and RANGER-X on
the Genesis easily blew away all first generation games for their
respective systems.)
There is no current Saturn news to back up your argument, and there is
nothing in Sega's history to back up your argument. So why are you trying
to tell everyone else that they're wrong?
NextGen
. Bug! was sold out.
>Dellwood
Bug! is out already?? How come I heard from some people on the net that
it is still not released yet? I will fly to EB to get one if it is out.
Charles
Nathaniel Hang
: kag...@imap2.asu.edu wrote:
: : It bothers me whenever some misguided person does an innacurate
: : comparison. The whole point behind the debates, while never downplaying
: : the prime importance of good software, is the power of the hardware.
: : Saturn, in many ways, has already been pushed to the limits. VF can't
: : pack any more polygons without massive screen goof-ups (which is a Sega
: : trademark). Playstation hasn't even peeked yet, and make no mistake
: : --
: : Net Surfer
: : Chris.
: I disagree TOTALY! I do not believe that the Saturn has already been pushed
: to it's limit. Let's see:
: PSX CPU = (1) 32-BIT RISC Chip
: SATURN CPU = (2) SH2 32-RISC Chips
: hmm. Sounds and looks to me that the PSX would be alot easier to program,
: which probably explains why it's 1st generation games look a little better.
: Also sounds and looks to me that the Saturn has more potential with parallel
: processing than the PSX which means better games in the future.
: Just my opinion....
: --Mikeg
: --
: *************************************************************************
: * SATURN *
: * mi...@panix.com ATARI JAGUAR *
: * Accessing the Internet with LINUX! 3DO *
: * NASCAR FAN!!! Go Dale Earnhardt #3 SEGA/SEGA-CD *
: * SUPER NINTENDO *
: *************************************************************************
True! But there is a problem... Mike! ;)
The PS has a MIPS RISC 3000 processor! (1 of them)
Saturn has 2 Hitachi SH2 processors running in parallel.
But, however, I'm pretty sure 1 R3000 processor can out perform even 2
SH2 processors, no matter how good the programming is.
One of the reason is as follows; When you have processors running in
parallel, it is impossible to get both processors to perform at 100%.
You may max out at approximately 90%. If one slows down, the other has
to slow down also. This applies computer systems with multiple
processors also. To take advantage of 2 processors, you need to program
to process in multiple threads of programming code. It is unlikely, IMO,
that a program (for a game) will use multiple threads; although I may be
wrong.
Second, there was an interview by a magazine (forgot which one), with the
programmers of Sega's own AM2 team. The AM2 team, admitted that the
design of the Saturn was not very well done (and at last minute done).
And when they were programming the game for the Saturn (from Arcade to
home), they already used up most of what the Saturn can do... Therefore,
I have to comclude that the Saturn isn't all that powerful...
--
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+
| Nathaniel Hang | Man is but the place where I stand, |
| Internet E-mail address: | and the prospect hence is infinite. |
| nh...@speed.net | - Thoreau |
+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
| * NO LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES * |
| To the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, the author of |
| this message shall not be liable for any other damages whatsoever |
| (including, without limitation, damages for loss of business |
| profits, business interruption, loss of business information, or |
| other pecuniary loss) arising out of recieving, viewing, replying, |
| forwarding, saving, or deletion of this message. |
\----------------------------------------------------------------------/
Nathaniel Hang
: : Saturn, in many ways, has already been pushed to the limits. VF can't
: : pack any more polygons without massive screen goof-ups (which is a Sega
: : trademark).
: Are you sure? It is rare indeed that the first game for the system pushes
: it to its limits. In interviews, Sega's design team didn't think that they
: had yet pushed the system to its limits. Getting maximal performance out
: of a dual-processor design is likely to take some practice.
Yup... However, Sega's team did say they used up most of the Saturns
performance. An example of poor performace, is that Daytona runs at half
the resolution as the arcade, not that sucks. To use a dual-processor
design is tough, but it is still imposible to achieve maximum performance
of both processors (because one is master, and the other is slave); no
matter how good the programming is. I believe Daytona or VF used up
approx (don't quote me on this), at least 75-85% of the systems
performance already.
NextGen
>1) Did you forget Bug!? I think this will kick the crap out of Jumping
>Flash, IMHO.
>
>2)What the hell is VF Remix? Is this game real, or did you just make it
>up or something? I've never even heard of it...
>
>--
> -- Psyc! mcr...@ix.netcom.com
> The Psychoboy - banned in 48 states
BUG! is going to be good, no doubt about it. I am going to get it as
soon as it comes out.
VF Remix is essentially VF1 with better texture mapping, so it will
much look better than the VF1. However, there will be no new
characters added. Worth checking out anyway.
Enjoy your Saturn.
Charles
kag...@imap2.asu.edu
Couldn't agree with you more, Ben. Boy, logical reasoning can be
SO hard to come by these days.
Ansell Christopher James
is a total nob! I have played all games for both systems and the PSX
is by FAR the better system. 200 games are on the way for PSX and the
sheer quality of the current games is just astounding. Fair enough
you are a sega die-hard who would buiy anything that they release, but
please show some intelligence above that of a sloth in the amazon.
Tekken totaly hits VF for six, in both grafx AND playability. (It even
gives VF2 a serious challenge!!!)
Ridge racer is a great racer with grafx that knock saturn daytona for six,
and if you want action in your racers, then forget daytona, look at
demoltion derby for PSX. It is AWESOME and actually LOOKS like the daytona
coin up in sheer grafx.
Astal is very basic and made for under 15's, but if you like that kind of
thing.
Cybersled is the psx'x only dud game, and that is coming for saturn as
well, so you can start to eat your shoe now.
Man, such ignorance really annoys me.
keg
--
Peter Gabriel - Starwars - CD-ROM - Industrial Music - Movies - Digital
Sound - Sleeping In - Usenet - Surround Sound - The life is GOOD!!!
************************************************************************
Chris Ansell jc...@uow.edu.au "Call me Kegster"
mikeg
: mi...@panix.com (mikeg) wrote:
: >I disagree TOTALY! I do not believe that the Saturn has already been pushed
: >
: >PSX CPU = (1) 32-BIT RISC Chip
: >SATURN CPU = (2) SH2 32-RISC Chips
: >
: >hmm. Sounds and looks to me that the PSX would be alot easier to program,
: >which probably explains why it's 1st generation games look a little better.
: >Also sounds and looks to me that the Saturn has more potential with parallel
: >processing than the PSX which means better games in the future.
: >
: >Just my opinion....
: >
: >--Mikeg
:
: will not spend the extra time it will take.. also the PSX's advantage has nothing
:
: Jim
Ummm...First off, were talking video game consoles, not computers. Secondly,
were talking about Sega not Atari. Let's talk APPLES to APPLES, not GRAPEFRUITS
to WATERMELONS...I think everything has to do with the CPU. If every game must
depend on a main CPU (ahem...PSX), then that eventually becomes a bottleneck.
mikeg
: True! But there is a problem... Mike! ;)
: The PS has a MIPS RISC 3000 processor! (1 of them)
: Saturn has 2 Hitachi SH2 processors running in parallel.
: But, however, I'm pretty sure 1 R3000 processor can out perform even 2
: SH2 processors, no matter how good the programming is.
: One of the reason is as follows; When you have processors running in
: parallel, it is impossible to get both processors to perform at 100%.
: You may max out at approximately 90%. If one slows down, the other has
: to slow down also. This applies computer systems with multiple
: processors also. To take advantage of 2 processors, you need to program
: to process in multiple threads of programming code. It is unlikely, IMO,
: that a program (for a game) will use multiple threads; although I may be
: wrong.
: Second, there was an interview by a magazine (forgot which one), with the
: programmers of Sega's own AM2 team. The AM2 team, admitted that the
: design of the Saturn was not very well done (and at last minute done).
: And when they were programming the game for the Saturn (from Arcade to
: home), they already used up most of what the Saturn can do... Therefore,
: I have to comclude that the Saturn isn't all that powerful...
You make some valid points, but since now were talking about interviews,
I think I'll add some direct quotes.
GAMEFAN, Volume 3 - Issue 6
GF:"How much of the Saturn's hardware potential have you used?"
S: "Since Virtua Fighter was the first title released at launch, we did'nt
utilize the full capacity of the hardware. After VF, we had a meeting
and reviewed our work on it and used our newfound knowledge for Daytona.
The Saturn does possess the hardware power to create better games, and
there are so many possibilities."
GF:"Can you tell me if VF2 will be similiar to the arcade, and how
confident are you to assure this?"
S: "We are 100% confident! Like I mentioned before, there were a few chips
in the Saturn that we did'nt use. Most of the programmers have gotten
used to the old development techniques. But at the time of VF2's
release, we will prove what can be done on the Saturn. Honestly, we
were worried about it before, bu we are really confident now."
I think that sums up my point of view...
Torajima
: Saturn, in many ways, has already been pushed to the limits.
Oh, please. The Genesis and SNES haven't truly been pushed to their limits
yet, how could a system that's been out only a few months already hit its
limits?
Torajima
MASHOOD KHAN
>
> >>Um, sorry. Let's look at this:
> >>
> >>Playstation:
> >>Ridge Racer - a rushed driving game, basically crap.
> >>Saturn:
> >>Daytona - Graphically crap, but the game is actually A LOT better game
> >>than RR.
> >>Grand Chaser - Wow, a "first generation" Saturn game /w graphics that
> >>not only kill RR, but the game is fun...and it has weapons, mega
> >>effects, and a HUGE number of cars...replay value.
>
> Your info is WRONG.. RR shits all over Daytona.. Rushed?
> Think not. Framerate is better, graphics are better and it plays
> much better.. Get them both before you spout your nonsense.
> Playstation is CLEANING HOUSE at E3...
>
> >>Playstation:
> >>Raiden 2 - Basically more crap, by 32-bit standards...nothing special.
> >>Saturn:
> >>Panzer Dragoon - AWESOME. Probably the best shooting game ever
> >>made...and wow, it's a "first generation game" too...=)
>
> More BS.. You can't compare R2 to PD, its not the same genre.
> So right now, your points are invalid. PS could easily surpase PD
> in every way, including the all important frame rate.
>
> >>Playstation:
> >>Space Griffon and Kleak - Basically more crap, cheap rip-offs of DOOM.
> >>Saturn:
> >>Deadalus - Yeah, a DOOM rip-off also...but at least they did it right.
>
> Got news for you.. Deadalus put me to sleep.. Kileak is much
> better. Maybe you should play them all first.
>
> >>Saturn:
> >>Astal - Wow, I see nothing to compare this to but Jumping
> >>Flash...sorry. I like games that weren't designed for 2 year olds.
>
> 2 different games. Can't compare..
>
> >>Playstation:
> >>Tekken - Basically a graphically awesome game with no substance. More
> >>crap in my book.
> >>Saturn:
> >>Virtua Fighter - An awesome game with AWESOME replay value...
> >>Virtua Fighter Remix - The same awesome game, except it probably looks
> >>as good as Tekken this time around.=)
>
> What the hell are you smoking? VF is *REALLY BAD* compared to
> Tekken, in every way. Tekken is more playable, has more
> characters, better grfx (far better), Better moves, faster, FMV
> endings, cooler bosses.. On and on and on.. I seriously doubt
> you have ever played a playstation game.
>
> >>Playstation:
> >>Toshinden - This game is a joke...The animation is bad, the game play
> >>horrible, this doesn't even deserve to be compared to VF.
>
> Oh my god, NOW I KNOW your smoking some serious shit.. TSD is
> one of the best fighters ever made.. Don't even start comparing
> it to VF trash.. Do you really like punching in water?
>
> >>I just went through every so-called "good" PS game, and found a Saturn
> >>game that completely beats the shit out of it. Hmmm...gee, the PS sure
> >>looks hot...=)
> >>-Joseph Caporale
>
> Your a very confused kid right now who needs to justify his $500
> that flew out the window.
>
> I like my Saturn, but face it, PSX is far better.
>
> --
> Robert McNaughton (sy...@aos.win.net)
> President, PCA Inc.
> Developers of quality software.
>
>Look when VF2 arrives on the scene Tekken hasn't got a chance,it was
relegated to a corner in my local arcade where final fight and double
dragon lurk, I've seen
screenshots of it(vf2) on the Saturn and a demo of Jacky driving around in
a red sports car and it looks perfrect Yu Suzuki has stated that Vf2 is
far easier to convert than VF1 anyway.
About Daytona it was only 70% complete when they released it anyway who knows
Sega still had to improve the resolution and clipping, It may be the case
that for the US and European release they will address this problem .
Mash
Christopher Mermagen
: >Look when VF2 arrives on the scene Tekken hasn't got a chance,it was
: relegated to a corner in my local arcade where final fight and double
: dragon lurk, I've seen
: screenshots of it(vf2) on the Saturn and a demo of Jacky driving around in
: a red sports car and it looks perfrect Yu Suzuki has stated that Vf2 is
: far easier to convert than VF1 anyway.
I remember reading an article that pretty much states this. They said
there were less polygons, the backgrounds weren't that difficult to
do (but for the life of me, I can't remember why). but I also heard
that they (I believe being Am2) have developed a new "engine" that
makes programming in this "3-d" environment much easier. Combine
all these facts, and it would appear that VF2 will be a winner,
along with other virtua series (although Virtua Racing looks like
a dog from what I've seen so far)
: About Daytona it was only 70% complete when they released it anyway who knows
Robert McNaughton
>comparison. The whole point behind the debates, while never downplaying
>the prime importance of good software, is the power of the hardware.
>pack any more polygons without massive screen goof-ups (which is a Sega
>fun as VF to some people, this problem can be fixxed in future
>installments. Personally, Tohshinden rules and there's no argument.
>But, some magazines contend that the replay isn't up to par. Ok, but
>that can be fixxed. I really wish Saturn could put more polygons on
>screen, though for the life of me, after seeing Panzer Dragoon I have to
>conclude that AM2 is either massively incompetant for not pushing the
>system to the limits on VF or that Sega is lying about system specs. By the
>way, anyone who
Agreed, Toshiden is the BEST around.. I get a sick feeling
everytime someone compares it to VF. AM2 has demonstrated major
incompetance. The best games on the Saturn do not originate from
their lame asses.
>caught the advertisement for Saturn in Gamepro days before it's release
>will notice that the VF shots are from the arcade. How do I know? The
>fingers on the fighters are articulated. On the Saturn, the hands don't
>have individual fingers. False advertising was another reason why I
>didn't give my visa card to the Software Etc. man the day Saturn was
>released.
And they are still doing it.. Look at the back of the Saturn
box.. Arcade shots for the games.. Major bullshit advertising.
Then, in the manual, they list a keyboard, floppy and Hard Drive
as coming options. I almost fucking puked. Glad I got 30 days to
return this thing.
Robert McNaughton
>to it's limit. Let's see:
>
>PSX CPU = (1) 32-BIT RISC Chip
>SATURN CPU = (2) SH2 32-RISC Chips
Umm, lets see..
PSX CPU = (1) 32-Bit, r3000 chip. Advanced.
Saturn CPU = (2) SH2 low-tech, vacumn cleaner powering chips.
2 bad processors struggling seldom equal one good one.
Just my opinion. Go by a PSX, and you'll agree with everyone
on here.. Its just *YEARS* ahead.. Saturn was obsolete at the
roll-out.
If the Saturn would have been released alongside the 3DO, it
would have looked *GOOD*.. Now, its just dead weight. You'll see.
Robert McNaughton
In article <tgibbs-1405...@ppp-82-26.bu.edu>, terrell gibbs (tgi...@acs.bu.edu) writes:
>In article <3p48bd$p...@news.asu.edu>, kag...@imap2.asu.edu wrote:
>
>: trademark).
>
>it to its limits.
If this is the case, then we are in for some god like pleasures
from the Playstation.
Robert McNaughton
In article <3p3q16$f...@agate.berkeley.edu>, Patrick Horio (pat...@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) writes:
>It's been a while since I've read such completely over-biased drivel
>here on the net... I myself bought a Saturn here in SF as they were
>released here at EB on Thur. Along w/ it i bought Daytona and
>Panzer Dragoon (Virtua Fighter came with it.) My friend is already
>getting me a PSX in Japan as well. Anyway, I had a chance to play
>Toshinden and Tekken for many, many, many hours on the PSX before I
>bought the Saturn. To put thing briefly, the Saturn went back to
>EB on Fri. The salesperson said she wasn't surprised; already had
>one returned Saturn besided mine already. They sold all 4 on Thu,
>and got 2 returns the very next day - that says something...
Thank you, thank you.. Finally, some common sense is coming
around here.. My Saturn will most likely go back. I can wait a
few months, and probably pick one up off the net for 2 bills. the
Saturn just can't compare, and its a waste of bandwidth to try and
justify it. Same here, EB and Babbages are reporting many
returns. Not good..
>Virtua Fighters and Daytona were from a technical viewpoint, utter
>dissapointments. Ridge Racer is a much more refined game than
>Daytona and Tekken makes the Saturn VF look like garbage. Panzer
>Dragoon was nice, but gameplay is basically non-existant; I thought
>Total Eclipse on the 3DO was a much better 3D shooter (as well
>as having impressive graphics).
Agreed.. I DO like Panzer and Clockwork. Panzer has a really
cool, mystical enviroment. And those sand worms kick ass. VF is
really bad, I would rather not have a copy of it. If I decide to
keep my Saturn, it will be because of Panzer and Clock.. but $500
for 2 games???
>I don't think Sony really has to worry about rushing its PSX out here
>in the US. If anything, I think Sega's little "test-market" ploy
>is convincing more people to wait for the other systems to come out...
They don't have ANYTHING to worry about.. It wasn't a test
market, it was a "We're Screwed" move.
Robert McNaughton
>writing this.=) Oh yeah, I used Jumping Flash as a comparison since
>there are no 2D platformers out...other than Gunner's Heaven, which
>really falls into the "Contra clone" area. You're right, not every PS
>game sucks, I was just trying to point out the Saturn, IMO, has the
>games right now. However, on a positive note, the Playstation's
>problems can be fixed...the polygon abilities of the Saturn can't.
>Acutally, you seem a little biased towards the PS...but who's counting,
>right? =)
>-Joseph Caporale
Joey has a big surprise when he sits his PSX next to the Saturn
in a few months.. Major- "Looked like a fool" shit will go
down.
SAMUEL JONES
>around here.. My Saturn will most likely go back. I can wait a
>few months, and probably pick one up off the net for 2 bills. the
>Saturn just can't compare, and its a waste of bandwidth to try and
>justify it. Same here, EB and Babbages are reporting many
>returns. Not good..
Actually, the big return #'s are 3DO owners bringing back their
3DO's (and JaG owners too) for store credit and picking up a Saturn
when the store receives more as they are usually out of stock when it
comes to Saturns.
Greg Bush
Actually I am not suprised some people are returning their Saturns.
Not because it is a bad machine mind you. It's just that a few people
(let me say that again *a few people*) bought it on an impulse to check
it out and maybe couldn't afford it. Since it was a suprise release
and caught many people off guard some people didn't have time to save
up for it. Only people with the big bucks can afford it on short
notice.
G. Bush
Dustin Cushman
> Not because it is a bad machine mind you. It's just that a few people
> (let me say that again *a few people*) bought it on an impulse to check
> it out and maybe couldn't afford it. Since it was a suprise release
> and caught many people off guard some people didn't have time to save
> up for it. Only people with the big bucks can afford it on short
> notice.
> G. Bush
>
I went temporarily insane when I saw it and grabbed it. It zapped my savings
and I couldn't afford to by anything else for a long time. Considering most of
the games I want won't be out till Sept, I returned it. Hopefully by Sept I
will have more money, and the Saturn will be cheaper. Plus I'll get the new
improved version of VF.
Dustin--
________________________________________________________________________________
/\ =========
== I'd But |\ /| I'll
Dustin Cushman || rather if I'm | \ / | settle
rcus...@vms1.gmu.edu __||__ be not | / \ | for
George Mason University \ / digging |/ \| DAYS
\ / =========
\/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Coyle
> Oh, please. The Genesis and SNES haven't truly been pushed to their limits
> yet, how could a system that's been out only a few months already hit its
> limits?
With DKC and now Killer Instinct, I think the SNES is about there! :)
Jim Coyle
> I just went through every so-called "good" PS game, and found a Saturn
> game that completely beats the shit out of it. Hmmm...gee, the PS sure
> looks hot...=)
Considering that you didn't say ONE GOOD THING ABOUT ANY PSX GAME and
that you didn't say ONE BAD THING ABOUT ANY SATURN GAMES, its obvious
that you never even played both of them and compared them.
Don't bother replying, just think about that.
The PSX hardware is twice as powerful as the Saturn, and there is no
aruging that - look at the specs. Its the games which matter, and the
Saturn games are no better than the PSX games.
In fact, Sega really rushed Daytona and VF. There are some obvious
problems with both of them. I really wish Sega would have taken more
time. We'll just have to wait for VF2 or VF Remix...
Jim Coyle
> >around here.. My Saturn will most likely go back. I can wait a
> >few months, and probably pick one up off the net for 2 bills. the
> >Saturn just can't compare, and its a waste of bandwidth to try and
> >justify it. Same here, EB and Babbages are reporting many
> >returns. Not good..
>
> Actually, the big return #'s are 3DO owners bringing back their
> 3DO's (and JaG owners too) for store credit and picking up a Saturn
> when the store receives more as they are usually out of stock when it
> comes to Saturns.
They're stupid then since the 3DO is almost as powerful as the Saturn,
and the 3DO games library is finally where it should be. There are a LOT
of awesome games coming out. If you already have a 3DO, keep it until
the PSX or M2 is release. If not, buy a Saturn! :)
Jim Coyle
> Actually I am not suprised some people are returning their Saturns.
> Not because it is a bad machine mind you. It's just that a few people
> (let me say that again *a few people*) bought it on an impulse to check
> it out and maybe couldn't afford it. Since it was a suprise release
> and caught many people off guard some people didn't have time to save
> up for it. Only people with the big bucks can afford it on short
> notice.
In my case, the Saturn wasn't much better than my 3DO. I was expecting a
MUCH bigger jump. I'll wait for the PSX since i've already played
several games on it, and I KNOW its more powerful than my 3DO.
Ishir Bhan
(Jacqueline I. Vera-Y-aragon) wrote:
>They DO, if you have the reciept.
How soon after you buy do you have to return the system to get your money back?
--
Ishir Bhan (ib...@fas.harvard.edu) http://www.digitas.org/ibhan/
"Soothe your fear, we're off where it's warm
I've seen everything now and it was all a big mistake"
- Trashcan Sinatras
Robert McNaughton
In article <3pa8tp$19...@bigblue.oit.unc.edu>, Kent J Frechette (kjfr...@email.unc.edu) writes:
>In article <6...@aos.win.net>, Robert McNaughton <sy...@aos.win.net> wrote:
>>
>> Your info is WRONG.. RR shits all over Daytona.. Rushed?
>>Think not. Framerate is better, graphics are better and it plays
>>much better.. Get them both before you spout your nonsense.
>
>
>stomped on Sony, temporarilly, amuses the heck out of me. Can't you just
>imagine him sitting there in his little room all red-faced and fuming, upset
>that we all have a Saturn and love it.
>
>Poor dipshit thinks anyone here actually cares. Thanks for being our
>Jokeboy this week.
>
>Kent Frechette
Oh please.. Arent you the asshole that is selling his import
Saturn with 5 games for $375??? Now who's fuming. :-O You took
it up the ass on that deal..
stehle nathan w
On 16 May 1995, John Caporale wrote:
> In <3pa61b$f...@soap.pipex.net> mar...@xdb.co.uk (Martin Sajkowski)
> writes:
> >
> >What are ya- a pussy!!! Jeez
>
> Pardon me, but shut the hell up... I have played THE HELL out of both
> of these machines... Calling me a pussy? Sorry, I am what I eat...
> -Joseph Caporale
Thanks for taking to new intellectaul heights.
Nathan Stehle
Graduate Student in Organic Chemistry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Early to bed and early to rise, makes a man stupid and blind in the eyes."
Mazer Rackham in Orson Scott Card's "Ender's Game"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kent J Frechette
Gregg Livingston
> MUCH bigger jump. I'll wait for the PSX since i've already played
> several games on it, and I KNOW its more powerful than my 3DO.
I don't know about which is the most powerful, but to me VF and Daytona
sure is alot more fun to play than 99% of 3do games.
.
.
Nikki Pat
>On Tue, 16 May 1995, Nikki Pat wrote:
>> Look Toshinden is absolute crap, okay so the graphics look good but if
>>you actually watch both games running you'll apreciate the motion capture
> used on VF the fact that the fights look realistic and thus appreciate
> how VF pisses on Toshinden from a great height.
Hmmm,now I don't remember writing the above at all. ;)
> Anyway the factor which launches a system is the "killer" game. If it
>wasn't for Street Fighter 2 the Snes would have been dead, Sonic saved the
Maybe, Maybe not. I don't think Nintendo would let the SNES die out even
if it didn't have SF2. It has a big support base itself. Agreed. I think
Sonic pretty much boosted the sales of Genesis.
>Genesis and VF2 will send the Saturn into orbit,
Most likely, unless AM2 screws up the graphics and the gameplay
department.
>Tekken just can't compete
>ask any arcade player.
Hmm, I don't know. Though personally, I don't really like Tekken as much
as VF2. I'll wouldn't say it can't compete. It has it's fair amount of
supporters.
--
Nikki Pat
sad Little people (sLp '95)
ni...@schwein.pl.my
terrell gibbs
wrote:
:However, Sega's team did say they used up most of the Saturns
:performance.
Where? References please. I have seen two interviews in which they said
the exact opposite. They said that when they were programming VF they were
unfamiliar with the system and didn't really know how to use it
effectively. Apparently, there is even a "VF Remix" shown at E3 that looks
much better.
Jacqueline I. Vera-Y-aragon
Wigan Ludgate <wlud...@wam.umd.edu> writes:
>naw...@ix.netcom.com (SAMUEL JONES) wrote:
>>
>>>around here.. My Saturn will most likely go back. I can wait a
>>>few months, and probably pick one up off the net for 2 bills. the
>>>Saturn just can't compare, and its a waste of bandwidth to try and
>>>justify it. Same here, EB and Babbages are reporting many
>>>returns. Not good..
>>
>>
>> Actually, the big return #'s are 3DO owners bringing back their
>>3DO's (and JaG owners too) for store credit and picking up a Saturn
>>when the store receives more as they are usually out of stock when it
>>comes to Saturns.
>>
>
>EB and Babbages do NOT take systems for store credit, ONLY GAMES.
>
>Wigan Ludgate
>
They DO, if you have the reciept.
Justin
JV2...@american.edu
>
CMeliss105.aol.com
::I disagree TOTALY! I do not believe that the Saturn has already been pushed
::to it's limit. Let's see:
::
::PSX CPU = (1) 32-BIT RISC Chip
::SATURN CPU = (2) SH2 32-RISC Chips
:
: Umm, lets see..
:
: PSX CPU = (1) 32-Bit, r3000 chip. Advanced.
: Saturn CPU = (2) SH2 low-tech, vacumn cleaner powering chips.
:
: 2 bad processors struggling seldom equal one good one.
:
: Just my opinion. Go by a PSX, and you'll agree with everyone
:on here.. Its just *YEARS* ahead.. Saturn was obsolete at the
:roll-out.
:
: If the Saturn would have been released alongside the 3DO, it
:would have looked *GOOD*.. Now, its just dead weight. You'll see.
:--
Ok, I am a game player, first and foremost. I own 6 platforms (including the 3DO, Saturn, and Playstation). I have seen several posts from Mr. McNaughton in several different newsgroups and I have a question. In your sig. you claim that you are the president of PCA, Inc., developers of quality software. If this is the case, how can you make such a remark in regard to the SH2 vs. R3000 processor? What do you program in? Do you actually know the programming potential of the processors and/or the architecture behind them in relation to the overall system architecture?
I have seen such irresponsible comments from the "president" of a company in the computer industry and this puzzles me. It is obvious to me, Mr. McNaughton, that you don't know what you are talking about. Until you can prove to this usergroup how underpowered the HS2 vs. the R3000 is, you have lost all credability with me.
Also, if you knew the first think about symm. multi-processing, you would know it's inherent strengths and that to imply that the processors have to "struggle" in this configuration, shows your lack of knowledge in devloping multi-processing/threading applications.
All I am trying to point out here is that there is no room for personal emotion when talking about exact hardware specs. Please don't inject them into this king of an argument. Be a little more responsible and set a better example for your company.
"Just my opinion =-)"
-Chris
Torajima
>VF2 will send the Saturn into orbit, Tekken just can't compete
>ask any arcade player.
Hmm. I consider myself an "arcade player" and I like Tekken a hell of a
lot better than VF2. Don't get me wrong, VF2 is a beautiful game. I enjoy
watching it.....but I would rather PLAY Tekken.
Torajima
David J. Warner
>
> Look Toshinden is absolute crap, okay so the graphics look good but if
> you actually watch both games running you'll apreciate the motion capture
> used on VF the fact that the fights look realistic and thus appreciate
> how VF pisses on Toshinden from a great height.
Yes, and we all know how truly realistic most fighting games are.
Virtua Fighter is not the be all and end all of fighting games. Hell, I
really like VF and VF2, but I like Tekken just as much or more. It may
not be as "realistic" as VF, but realism doesn't always equal fun.
> Anyway the factor which launches a system is the "killer" game. If it
> wasn't for Street Fighter 2 the Snes would have been dead, Sonic saved the
> Genesis and VF2 will send the Saturn into orbit, Tekken just can't compete
> ask any arcade player.
This arcade player likes 'em both. In fact, I prefer Tekken over VF1
(not 2), and not just for graphics -- the gameplay is there if you take
the time to learn it. Just because it's not the same as VF doesn't mean
it's total crap.
Then again, I've always had this thing for green-eyed Asian-Native
American chicks. =^)
Regardless, it's still way too early in the game to pass any sweeping
judgments in the PSX-Saturn debate. Let's see what the systems can
*really* do come Xmas time...
--
L8A... | Playing McDonald's Monopoly?
| Finger my account for some news.
David J. (dav...@vnet.net) ------------------------------------
Dir. of Network Distribution, HardCORE (http://library.uncc.edu/people/chris)
M Arnone
SJ> 3DO's (and JaG owners too) for store credit and picking up a Saturn
SJ> when the store receives more as they are usually out of stock when it
SJ> comes to Saturns.
I strongly support the Saturn, but your statement is a blatant lie.
Neither Electronics Boutique or Babbages gives store credit for 3DO or any
other systems. I checked the policy (nationwide) with both stores, as I
wanted to sell my old systems to get a Saturn. I ended up selling my stuff
to BRE Software, an excellent mail-order company which with I've dealt with
before. In a week or so when my check comes back, I'm going to go pick up
a Saturn......
John Caporale
>
>>Sorry if the post offended you...I was VERY upset at the time of
>>writing this.=) Oh yeah, I used Jumping Flash as a comparison since
>>there are no 2D platformers out...other than Gunner's Heaven, which
>>really falls into the "Contra clone" area. You're right, not every
PS
>>game sucks, I was just trying to point out the Saturn, IMO, has the
>>games right now. However, on a positive note, the Playstation's
>>problems can be fixed...the polygon abilities of the Saturn can't.
>>Acutally, you seem a little biased towards the PS...but who's
counting,
>>right? =)
>>-Joseph Caporale
>
> Joey has a big surprise when he sits his PSX next to the Saturn
>in a few months.. Major- "Looked like a fool" shit will go
>down.
>
Sorry bud, I've had a PS at my house, and I still posted that note...I
won't be buying it... If I wanted it I'd be playing it right now...
-Joseph Caporale
John Caporale
>>Saturn has been pushed to the limit!! Then why are people from E3
>>saying Virtua Cop on the Saturn is perfect and VF2 looks awesome?
What
>>a joke.
>>-Joseph Caporale
>>
>Yo Jo, get a life. It's easy to drop a console that you look at in a
shop
>and watch other people play. The best and only way to compare two
>alike games/consoles, is to sit down with both of them, play them
>till ya fingers ache, write down the good/bad points and look at the
>technical aspect of both machines. Thats what serious people do, just
>look at the independent magazine write-ups.
>
>I suggest you buy both machines and the games then provide a
>a more realistic comparision. Further up the thread, you apologised
>for your strong language by justifying that fact that you were
"upset".
>What are ya- a pussy!!! Jeez
Pardon me, but shut the hell up... I have played THE HELL out of both
of these machines... Calling me a pussy? Sorry, I am what I eat...
-Joseph Caporale
PS. Get help. =)
John Caporale
writes:
>Someone wrote:
>
>>VF2 will send the Saturn into orbit, Tekken just can't compete
>>ask any arcade player.
>
a
>lot better than VF2. Don't get me wrong, VF2 is a beautiful game. I
enjoy
>watching it.....but I would rather PLAY Tekken.
>
>Torajima
What is the world coming to? Somebody likes Tekken more than the VF2
arcade...wow.
-Joseph Caporale
MASHOOD KHAN
> In <6...@aos.win.net> sy...@aos.win.net (Robert McNaughton) writes:
>
> > Agreed, Toshiden is the BEST around.. I get a sick feeling
> >everytime someone compares it to VF. AM2 has demonstrated major
> >incompetance. The best games on the Saturn do not originate from
> >their lame asses.
>
> Check out pic. shots VF2 (E3 ones) for Saturn,also check out pic. shots
> of Virtua Cop for Saturn in the Saturn Web.
> AM2 has been responsible for bringing many arcade hits to us. I wouldn't
> call them incompetent.It's quite difficult bringing a U.S.$150,000.
> (not sure on the price since I wasn't referring to anything while typing
> this) model 1 and model 2 board game into a U.S.399 dollars Saturn.
> I'll agree that VF doesn't have the looks of Toshinden. However,AM2
> succeeded in porting the gameplay and refined it so that it's better
> than the Arcade.Considering the time they spent rushing to bring out the
> game together with Saturn's release in Japan and the game running on one
> of the CPU (also not sure on this since I'm not referring to anything).
> They've actually did quite a good job.I'll admit that they could spend a
> bit more time refining the graphics but anyway, there is a VF remix on
> the way to replace the current VF.
>
> > And they are still doing it.. Look at the back of the Saturn
> >box.. Arcade shots for the games.. Major bullshit advertising.
> >Then, in the manual, they list a keyboard, floppy and Hard Drive
> >as coming options. I almost fucking puked. Glad I got 30 days to
> >return this thing.
>
> I agree it's a bit unfair to have arcade shots of VF2 on the back of the
> box. But,Hey! there's marketing for you. :)
> Check out the E3 shots for VF2,it should be pretty good.
> What wrong with the options? I don't see your point here.
> Oh well,return it. You can't please them all.
>
> --
>
> Nikki Pat
> sad Little people (sLp '95)
> ni...@schwein.pl.my
>
> Look Toshinden is absolute crap, okay so the graphics look good but if
>you actually watch both games running you'll apreciate the motion capture
used on VF the fact that the fights look realistic and thus appreciate
how VF pisses on Toshinden from a great height.
Anyway the factor which launches a system is the "killer" game. If it
wasn't for Street Fighter 2 the Snes would have been dead, Sonic saved the
Genesis and VF2 will send the Saturn into orbit, Tekken just can't compete
ask any arcade player.
>
Mash
Martin Sajkowski
Marty Chinn
: Your info is WRONG.. RR shits all over Daytona.. Rushed?
: Think not. Framerate is better, graphics are better and it plays
: much better.. Get them both before you spout your nonsense.
: Playstation is CLEANING HOUSE at E3...
Actually RR was very rushed, and how would you know about E3, you weren't
there....
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marty Chinn Super Nintendo, Super Famicom, Genesis, Sega CD,
Video Source Mega Drive, Mega CD, Sega 32X, Mega 32X, Saturn,
973 Foxglove Dr. Turbo Duo, PC Engine, Arcade Card, Playstation,
Sunnyvale, CA 94086 Neo Geo, Jaguar, 3DO, Game Boy, and Game Gear.
<408> 736-1133 Voice Mailing List, Ordering, and Preordering info at:
<408> 699-7584 Pager vids...@netcom.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert McNaughton
>>
>>EB and Babbages do NOT take systems for store credit, ONLY GAMES.
>>
>>Wigan Ludgate
>>
>They DO, if you have the reciept.
You notice how Electronics Boutique is riping people off? I
called, asked how much they'd give me for Iron Soldier, the guy
said "16 bux, tops".. Then, they turn around, and put them back
on their shelf for $49.00. Talk about blood sucking scum.
Robert McNaughton
In article <vidsourcD...@netcom.com>, Marty Chinn (vids...@netcom.com) writes:
>Robert McNaughton (sy...@aos.win.net) wrote:
>
>: Your info is WRONG.. RR shits all over Daytona.. Rushed?
>: Think not. Framerate is better, graphics are better and it plays
>: much better.. Get them both before you spout your nonsense.
>: Playstation is CLEANING HOUSE at E3...
>
>Actually RR was very rushed, and how would you know about E3, you weren't
>there....
Are you sure I wasn't? I've attended 4 of the last CES's..
What makes you think I didn't jet in for a few hours? Just because
I didn't spend 3 days taking notes and filming, then releasing
press reports, does not mean I didn't drop by.
In fact, I frequent California on business. Used to have a
house in Santa Barbara.
Jacqueline I. Vera-Y-aragon
sy...@aos.win.net (Robert McNaughton) writes:
>>>CRAP CRAP CRAP
>>>
>>>EB and Babbages do NOT take systems for store credit, ONLY GAMES.
>>>
>>>Wigan Ludgate
>>>
>>They DO, if you have the reciept.
>
> You notice how Electronics Boutique is riping people off? I
>called, asked how much they'd give me for Iron Soldier, the guy
>said "16 bux, tops".. Then, they turn around, and put them back
>on their shelf for $49.00. Talk about blood sucking scum.
>
>--
to another company, I assumed EB did too. I should hope so, since none of
their games are marked as used. Although, that would explain why I found
someone else's game saved on my "new" copy of Nobanaga's Ambition that I bought
at EB.
--Justin
Mark MacDonald
: MASHOOD KHAN <m...@coventry.ac.uk> writes:
: As for VF2 being far easier to convert than VF1... yeah right.
Uh, yes...it is right. Less polys and more use of the saturns t-mapping
(which they can do easily); the main thing they are worried about now
(from reading the japanese mags) is the backrnds.
(btw, whoever said that the saturn was already maxed out while the PSX
was just warming up (that sysop dumbshit?), well thats crap. They are
just now starting to use the sh2(2nd) chip to do polys, where no one
thought it could before. They are learning more and more with each game
and havent near tapped the potential of the saturn)
Mark
Andy Bates
<m...@coventry.ac.uk> wrote:
> About Daytona it was only 70% complete when they released it anyway who knows
> Sega still had to improve the resolution and clipping, It may be the case
> that for the US and European release they will address this problem .
1. The US release has already passed.
2. I'm not sure how well I would trust a company who releases a game
that's 70% complete....Seriously, is this supposed to be an excuse? "Yeah,
the resolution, frame rate and clipping need work, but it's only 70%
complete!" Pray tell, how will people upgrade when it's 100% complete?? :)
Andy Bates.
Nikki Pat
Nikki Pat
> Just my opinion. Go by a PSX, and you'll agree with everyone
>on here.. Its just *YEARS* ahead.. Saturn was obsolete at the
>roll-out.
Fornunately for us. Sega Saturn has a no. of Arcade hits being backed up.
Even if it was obsolete technology like you claim. With good programming,
it would probably look just as nice if not any better (check out EWJ
for the Genesis. The Genesis is almost inferior to the SNES in many areas
but they managed to do a better version than the SNES).
> If the Saturn would have been released alongside the 3DO, it
>would have looked *GOOD*.. Now, its just dead weight. You'll see.
Unfornunately,you don't have anything to justify this yet. All this
remains to be seen.
All IMHO.
Wigan Ludgate
>
>>around here.. My Saturn will most likely go back. I can wait a
>>few months, and probably pick one up off the net for 2 bills. the
>>Saturn just can't compare, and its a waste of bandwidth to try and
>>justify it. Same here, EB and Babbages are reporting many
>>returns. Not good..
>
>
MASHOOD KHAN
Subject: Re: PSX VS. SATURN an Observation
Organization: Coventry University
On Tue, 16 May 1995, Nikki Pat wrote:
> In <6...@aos.win.net> sy...@aos.win.net (Robert McNaughton) writes:
>
> --
>
> Nikki Pat
> sad Little people (sLp '95)
> ni...@schwein.pl.my
>
Robbie Tarte
> Someone wrote:
>
>>VF2 will send the Saturn into orbit, Tekken just can't compete
>>ask any arcade player.
>
> lot better than VF2. Don't get me wrong, VF2 is a beautiful game. I enjoy
> watching it.....but I would rather PLAY Tekken.
>
> Torajima
VF2 is a beautiful game , I enjoy watching it and playing it. I dont enjoy
watching tekken, so why would I bother playing it - see my point. I
started playing virtua fighter because I loved the way it looked, I
wanted to control what I was s seeing.
| (-)(.) | Robbie (The Pie Guy) Tarte bz...@Freenet.Carleton.CA |
--
Nils P Jacobsen
>>
>> Look Toshinden is absolute crap, okay so the graphics look good but if
>> you actually watch both games running you'll apreciate the motion capture
>> used on VF the fact that the fights look realistic and thus appreciate
>> how VF pisses on Toshinden from a great height.
>
Then you hate VF2? I mean, since the DID NOT use motion capture!
--
- Nils
-------- The Unofficial Playstation Homepage ------
----------------------------------------------------
----------> http://bert.cs.byu.edu/~nils/ <---------
Peter Ronaszeki
(lots of great points on why PSX kicks Saturn deleted)
> Your a very confused kid right now who needs to justify his $500
>that flew out the window.
> I like my Saturn, but face it, PSX is far better.
>--
>Robert McNaughton (sy...@aos.win.net)
>President, PCA Inc.
>Developers of quality software.
Well said!
/---------------------------------------------------------------------\
| A | Peter Ronaszeki (pred...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au) | A |
| N |---------------------------------------------------------| N |
| I | *Madoka*_Belldandy_Kyoko_Kasumi_Nuku Nuku_Pai_Lum | I |
| M | Akane_Ukyou_Deedlit_Arshes Nei_Priss_Linna_Ryouko | M |
| E |---------------------------------------------------------| E |
| ^ | < Sony PlayStation and Anime... who needs reality? > | ^ |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Jimi Hendrix_X-Files_Science_Individuality_Non-conformity_Peace |
\---------------------------------------------------------------------/
Peter Ronaszeki
>>Look when VF2 arrives on the scene Tekken hasn't got a chance,it was
>relegated to a corner in my local arcade where final fight and double
>dragon lurk, I've seen
I'd say it is reasonable to say that ARCADE VF2 beats ARCADE Tekken.
However, this is not entirely relevant since we are talking about home
versions here.
>screenshots of it(vf2) on the Saturn and a demo of Jacky driving around in
>a red sports car and it looks perfrect Yu Suzuki has stated that Vf2 is
>far easier to convert than VF1 anyway.
PERFECT? Excuse me, but I hope you realise PERFECT means just that:
1. Same colors as arcade
2. Same resolution as arcade
3. Same frame rate as arcade
4. Exact same playability as arcade
5. Same sound as arcade
Which I'm sure the Saturn could handle points 4 and 5 and maybe 1, there
is no way 2 and 3 will be satisfied without a CPU upgrade; if it could,
then why spend all that money on the expensive arcade versions when you
could just have a $300 Saturn running the whole thing.
As for VF2 being far easier to convert than VF1... yeah right.
Peter Ronaszeki
>Look when VF2 arrives on the scene Tekken hasn't got a chance,it was
>relegated to a corner in my local arcade where final fight and double
>dragon lurk, I've seen
I'd say it is reasonable to say that ARCADE VF2 beats ARCADE Tekken.
However, this is not entirely relevant since we are talking about home
versions here.
>screenshots of it(vf2) on the Saturn and a demo of Jacky driving around in
>a red sports car and it looks perfrect Yu Suzuki has stated that Vf2 is
>far easier to convert than VF1 anyway.
PERFECT? Excuse me, but I hope you realise PERFECT means:
1. Same number of polygons as arcade
2. Same colors as arcade
3. Same resolution as arcade
4. Same frame rate as arcade
5. Same gameplay as arcade
6. Same sound as arcade
Which I'm sure the Saturn could handle points 5 and 6 and maybe 2, there
is no way 1, 3 and 4 will be satisfied without a CPU upgrade; if it could,
then why spend all that money on the expensive arcade versions when you
could just have a $300 Saturn running the whole thing.
Tekken on the PSX is actually improved over the arcade version, with
awesome SGI FMV intros and endings, as well as 17 playable characters and
much improved background music.
It is obvious that Tekken will rule the home 3-D fighting game genre for
some time to come. Saturn VF2 will still be fun to play though, but it
is unrealistic saying it will be better than PSX Tekken.
Marty Chinn
: >Actually RR was very rushed, and how would you know about E3, you weren't
: >there....
: Are you sure I wasn't? I've attended 4 of the last CES's..
: What makes you think I didn't jet in for a few hours? Just because
: I didn't spend 3 days taking notes and filming, then releasing
: press reports, does not mean I didn't drop by.
Due to your lack of knowledge of events that took place at E3, it sounds
as if you were not there.
: In fact, I frequent California on business. Used to have a
: house in Santa Barbara.
: --
: Robert McNaughton (sy...@aos.win.net)
: President, PCA Inc.
: Developers of quality software.
David Brown
In article <3pbdjj$9...@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, capo...@ix.netcom.com writes:
> In <3pb7iq$8...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> tora...@aol.com (Torajima)
> >
> >Hmm. I consider myself an "arcade player" and I like Tekken a hell of
> a
> >lot better than VF2. Don't get me wrong, VF2 is a beautiful game. I
> enjoy
> >watching it.....but I would rather PLAY Tekken.
> >
> >Torajima
>
> arcade...wow.
Make that "Some people like Tekken more than VF2".
It just has the playability edge.
Tekkens graphics may not be as good, but the gameplay makes up for it.
David Brown (da...@barney.neu.sgi.com) | It is better to trip and end up on
| the floor...
Managing Director |
DBCC Limited | than to not trip and end up on the
Northants. UK | floor for no particular reason.
SAMUEL JONES
writes:
>>
>> Actually, the big return #'s are 3DO owners bringing back their
>>3DO's (and JaG owners too) for store credit and picking up a Saturn
>>when the store receives more as they are usually out of stock when it
>>comes to Saturns.
>>
>CRAP CRAP CRAP
>
>EB and Babbages do NOT take systems for store credit, ONLY GAMES.
>
>Wigan Ludgate
>
>
Actually dude you are full of CRAP. Everyone knows that systems
as well as games can be returned for credit as well as cash.
Inconnu
Jim Coyle <dah...@planetx.bloomu.edu> wrote:
>On 13 May 1995, John Caporale wrote:
[SNIP]
>The PSX hardware is twice as powerful as the Saturn, and there is no
>aruging that - look at the specs. Its the games which matter, and the
>Saturn games are no better than the PSX games.
OK, let's look at the specs--
Saturn PlayStation
------ -----------
2 32-bit RISCs @28mgz 1 32-bit RISC @33mgz
50 MIPS 30 MIPS
36-voice sound (FM synth) 24-voice sound, (NO FM synth)
34 (?) mgz bus speed 114mgz bus speed
The true test of the machines lies in the custom graphics libs.. Sony has
_obviously_ put more into their's. The PSX is easier and faster to program
for-- the Saturn is "clunky". However, that does not mean that Sega cannot
put out a library of high-level routines to make it easier to program (or,
companies can have custom libs of their own stuff).. It also makes it easier
to change the system (an RPG doesn't need a massive 3D engine, so that part
of the PSX would go to waste). Buying a Saturn is a gamble on whether or not
we'll have brilliant programmers in the future-- buying a PSX is security in
a mega-corp that makes everything from stereos to movies.
I havn't bought either yet, I'm still deciding on which... :(
>In fact, Sega really rushed Daytona and VF. There are some obvious
>problems with both of them. I really wish Sega would have taken more
>time. We'll just have to wait for VF2 or VF Remix...
>
--
-INK <kell...@isuux.isu.edu>
Idaho State University
Nikki Pat
>It is obvious that Tekken will rule the home 3-D fighting game genre for
>some time to come. Saturn VF2 will still be fun to play though, but it
>is unrealistic saying it will be better than PSX Tekken.
Yeah but it is also unrealistic to say that the PSX's Tekken is better
than Saturn's VF2,since Saturn VF2 isn't even out yet. At present,PSX's
Tekken maybe most popular( Not too sure about this since I've no
references). But until VF2 for Saturn is out,then can we compare to say
which is better.
Michael Mullis
in
>>a red sports car and it looks perfrect Yu Suzuki has stated that Vf2 is
>>far easier to convert than VF1 anyway.
>
>PERFECT? Excuse me, but I hope you realise PERFECT means:
>1. Same number of polygons as arcade
>2. Same colors as arcade
>3. Same resolution as arcade
>4. Same frame rate as arcade
>5. Same gameplay as arcade
>6. Same sound as arcade
>Which I'm sure the Saturn could handle points 5 and 6 and maybe 2, there
>is no way 1, 3 and 4 will be satisfied without a CPU upgrade; if it
could,
>then why spend all that money on the expensive arcade versions when you
>could just have a $300 Saturn running the whole thing.
Hello! There are only EIGHT processors on the Saturn. I'm fairly sure
since the arcade board and the Saturn board are the same archetecture (sp?
), that AM2 knows what their doing. They have stated a 100% conversion.
These guys are only the experts at their own games. Not that they know
anything. Geesh. You Sony people. It's people like you that are making
me dislike Sony and it's playstation.
Mike Mullis
Joppatowne, MD.
XAK...@prodigy.com
Skip
You seem to think eight processors means something. Not really.
There are other factors which weigh in a lot more than that.
Aren't you the same guy who keeps saying that Saturn Daytona is good res
and as fast and smooth as the arcade? It is not, it is not, it is
definitely NOT. If you can't see this then you haven't seen the arcade
or you're an extremely poor judge of frame rate and resolution. And just
for your additional info, the Saturn architecture is not even close to
VF2 and Daytona Model 2 hardware.
Swedish Chef
until they both come to the US to bash _either_ system. Sony may make
the same mistakes as NEC or maybe not... have killer games but not bring
over here. Sega might opt to lag in RPG's again. However, this system
is 6 days old now. THe PSX is not even born here. I'm sorry to post this,
but I'm thinking of reposting something like this to every Saturn vs PSX
thread. Why? It's pointless reading and I cannot skip through them readily
with my reader :) I like well conducted arguments, but they don't belong in
this group, ok?
--
Swedish Chef-"Jag lagar god mat!"
_____ ____
|____ | C=8^)X "Bork Bork Bork!"
_____| + |____ +
James Peterson
>What is the world coming to? Somebody likes Tekken more than the VF2
>arcade...wow.
I just wish my arcade would get VF2. All I have to play is Tekken and
MK3!
James
Robert McNaughton
>1. Same number of polygons as arcade
>2. Same colors as arcade
>3. Same resolution as arcade
>4. Same frame rate as arcade
>5. Same gameplay as arcade
>6. Same sound as arcade
>Which I'm sure the Saturn could handle points 5 and 6 and maybe 2, there
>is no way 1, 3 and 4 will be satisfied without a CPU upgrade; if it could,
>then why spend all that money on the expensive arcade versions when you
>could just have a $300 Saturn running the whole thing.
Yeah, and consider that the Arcade Tekken is running on a
Playstation. Or System 11 for you techies. So in essence, we
have the whole arcade unit at home, and improved somewhat to boot!
Quentin Chang
: Hello! There are only EIGHT processors on the Saturn. I'm fairly sure
: since the arcade board and the Saturn board are the same archetecture (sp?
: ), that AM2 knows what their doing. They have stated a 100% conversion.
: These guys are only the experts at their own games. Not that they know
: anything. Geesh. You Sony people. It's people like you that are making
: me dislike Sony and it's playstation.
: Mike Mullis
: Joppatowne, MD.
: XAK...@prodigy.com
Just because a system has all the "chips" doesn't mean they are
used or better than other systems that has lesser amunt of chips !!
Stop reading the specs in the Saturn manual and treat it as the
ten commandments !! We ALL know how many processors the Saturn has
because WE had one for a LONG time now !! What DOES the amount of processors
have anything to do with how good a game is if ther are NOT used ??
BTW, the VF board that is in the arcades is not the same thing as
your Saturn... Go do some reading on the subject, Think about it and
then just go away... I am fed up with your stupid comments !!
It's in the processors !! NOT !!
GET OFF YOUR FATHER'S ACCOUNT !!!
We can all tell you are in High School (maybe ?) !!
Quentin
Morris A. Davis
: You notice how Electronics Boutique is riping people off? I
: called, asked how much they'd give me for Iron Soldier, the guy
: said "16 bux, tops".. Then, they turn around, and put them back
: on their shelf for $49.00. Talk about blood sucking scum.
If you are so confident that they are making outrageous profits, why
don't you open your own store, offer "fairer" prices, and put EB's used
gaming section out of business?
The higher the risk, the higher the return......
Suppose your game doesn't work in three days.
Suppose noone buys the game...then they are 1) out sixteen dollars
(which could earn interest) and 2) out inventory space.
High risk. High return.
Save your spew for the children.
Morris
: --
Marty Chinn
: Hello! There are only EIGHT processors on the Saturn. I'm fairly sure
: since the arcade board and the Saturn board are the same archetecture (sp?
: ), that AM2 knows what their doing. They have stated a 100% conversion.
: These guys are only the experts at their own games. Not that they know
: anything. Geesh. You Sony people. It's people like you that are making
: me dislike Sony and it's playstation.
Sheesh, at least know what you're talking about. The Saturn is based on
the their Titan arcade board. Titan is basically the current Golden Axe
and Virtua Racing. Virtua Fighter 2, Virtua Fighter, Daytona, Sega Rally,
etc, are all on much higher quality boards. Virtua Fighter 2 and I
believe Daytona are both on Model 2 hardware. Model 2 hardware simply
beats Titan hardware.
: Mike Mullis
: Joppatowne, MD.
: XAK...@prodigy.com
Kent J Frechette
>
>> Agreed, Toshiden is the BEST around.. I get a sick feeling
>>everytime someone compares it to VF. AM2 has demonstrated major
>>incompetance. The best games on the Saturn do not originate from
>>their lame asses.
There he goes again fuming and foaming at the mouth..
The early release of the Saturn really got ya down, huh.
Bwhahahahhahahahahhahaha
Kent Frechette....enjoying a good, hearty laugh at an idiot's expense.
John Caporale
Christopher James) writes:
>
>The guy who posted that absolute SHIT about the PSX having shit games
>is a total nob! I have played all games for both systems and the PSX
>is by FAR the better system. 200 games are on the way for PSX and the
>sheer quality of the current games is just astounding. Fair enough
>you are a sega die-hard who would buiy anything that they release, but
>please show some intelligence above that of a sloth in the amazon.
>Tekken totaly hits VF for six, in both grafx AND playability. (It even
>gives VF2 a serious challenge!!!)
>Ridge racer is a great racer with grafx that knock saturn daytona for
six,
>and if you want action in your racers, then forget daytona, look at
>demoltion derby for PSX. It is AWESOME and actually LOOKS like the
daytona
>coin up in sheer grafx.
>Astal is very basic and made for under 15's, but if you like that kind
of
>thing.
>Cybersled is the psx'x only dud game, and that is coming for saturn as
>well, so you can start to eat your shoe now.
>Man, such ignorance really annoys me.
>keg
>--
>Peter Gabriel - Starwars - CD-ROM - Industrial Music - Movies -
Digital
>Sound - Sleeping In - Usenet - Surround Sound - The life is GOOD!!!
>**********************************************************************
*
>Chris Ansell jc...@uow.edu.au "Call me Kegster"
Um, whatever. Tekken does NOTHING to even touch VF's gameplay... RR
has NO replay value. Astal is not basic, compare it to Gunner's Heaven
on the PS. Actually, think about it... Astal on the Saturn looks much
better than Gunner's Heaven than Tekken looks better than VF... How do
you know Cybersled won't be better on the Saturn? It's possible.
-Joseph Caporale
Yawng Seong Suh
I wouldn't saythe AM2 machine only has a little bit more RAM.
--
Steve Suh
gt7...@prism.gatech.edu
Georgia Institue of Technology
Swedish Chef
Subject: Re: PSX VS. SATURN an Observation
MASHOOD KHAN
>
> In article <3pbdjj$9...@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, capo...@ix.netcom.com writes:
> > In <3pb7iq$8...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> tora...@aol.com (Torajima)
> > >
> > >Hmm. I consider myself an "arcade player" and I like Tekken a hell of
> > a
> > >lot better than VF2. Don't get me wrong, VF2 is a beautiful game. I
> > enjoy
> > >watching it.....but I would rather PLAY Tekken.
> > >
> > >Torajima
> >
> > What is the world coming to? Somebody likes Tekken more than the VF2
> > arcade...wow.
>
> Make that "Some people like Tekken more than VF2".
>
> It just has the playability edge.
>
> Tekkens graphics may not be as good, but the gameplay makes up for it.
>
>
> David Brown (da...@barney.neu.sgi.com) | It is better to trip and end up on
> | the floor...
> Managing Director |
> DBCC Limited | than to not trip and end up on the
> Northants. UK | floor for no particular reason.
>
>Jesus Christ how can anyone in their right mine think Tekken has better
gameplay, I doubt whether this guy as actually played VF2, playabilities
edge? eh, whereas Tekken is a pure and simple button basher VF2 requires
technique, If I was going to make an analogy Tekken would be Plan Nine
from Outer space whilst VF2 would be Citzien Kane.
Mash
>
MASHOOD KHAN
> >MASHOOD KHAN <m...@coventry.ac.uk> writes:
>
> >Look when VF2 arrives on the scene Tekken hasn't got a chance,it was
> >relegated to a corner in my local arcade where final fight and double
> >dragon lurk, I've seen
>
> I'd say it is reasonable to say that ARCADE VF2 beats ARCADE Tekken.
> However, this is not entirely relevant since we are talking about home
> versions here.
>
> >screenshots of it(vf2) on the Saturn and a demo of Jacky driving around in
> >a red sports car and it looks perfrect Yu Suzuki has stated that Vf2 is
> >far easier to convert than VF1 anyway.
>
> PERFECT? Excuse me, but I hope you realise PERFECT means:
> 1. Same number of polygons as arcade
> 2. Same colors as arcade
> 3. Same resolution as arcade
> 4. Same frame rate as arcade
> 5. Same gameplay as arcade
> 6. Same sound as arcade
> Which I'm sure the Saturn could handle points 5 and 6 and maybe 2, there
> is no way 1, 3 and 4 will be satisfied without a CPU upgrade; if it could,
> then why spend all that money on the expensive arcade versions when you
> could just have a $300 Saturn running the whole thing.
>
> Tekken on the PSX is actually improved over the arcade version, with
> awesome SGI FMV intros and endings, as well as 17 playable characters and
> much improved background music.
> It is obvious that Tekken will rule the home 3-D fighting game genre for
> some time to come. Saturn VF2 will still be fun to play though, but it
> is unrealistic saying it will be better than PSX Tekken.
>
> As for VF2 being far easier to convert than VF1... yeah right.
>
>
> /---------------------------------------------------------------------\
> | A | Peter Ronaszeki (pred...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au) | A |
> | N |---------------------------------------------------------| N |
> | I | *Madoka*_Belldandy_Kyoko_Kasumi_Nuku Nuku_Pai_Lum | I |
> | M | Akane_Ukyou_Deedlit_Arshes Nei_Priss_Linna_Ryouko | M |
> | E |---------------------------------------------------------| E |
> | ^ | < Sony PlayStation and Anime... who needs reality? > | ^ |
> |---------------------------------------------------------------------|
> | Jimi Hendrix_X-Files_Science_Individuality_Non-conformity_Peace |
> \---------------------------------------------------------------------/
>
> Look, If it plays exactly the same as the arcade and although the polygon
count may be less I am sure texture mapping will disguise this then
it can be claimed the game is perfect, anyway I doubt anyone will notice
the difference, VF2 would be easier to convert because of
a)It's polygon count is not as much as VF1, i.e the floors in VF1 are
made up of hundreds of polygons whereas in VF2 it's one texture mapped
polygon.
b)The programmers have become more skilled at coding Saturn games.
(just look what David Perry did for Genesis)
c)VF2 was probrably designed with the Saturn conversion in mind as are
all new Sega arcade titles, check out Sega Rally which gives a clear
indication of it's impending Saturn converison, VF3 will probrably be
easier to convert than VF2 because of the experience gained by AM2 on VF1
and the VF2 conversions, anyway when VF3 reaches the arcade expect VF2 on
the home systems.
Could the PlayStation handle VF2 on a 1:1 basis I think not.
Mash
Torajima
>What is the world coming to? Somebody likes Tekken more than the VF2
>arcade...wow.
Wow! What is the world coming to?
Someone thinks everyone on the planet should think and like everything he
does...
Torajima
reginald sharpless
returned to THEM for Saturns, but they are changing thier return policies
so that NO-ONE will every done it anymore
Marc Baime
sy...@aos.win.net (Robert McNaughton) wrote:
> Actually, I think both Tekken and Toshiden are better in gameplay
>than VF (home). Gameplayers this month have a glaring report on
>TSD, claiming to the be one of the best home games ever made.
>Check it out, they do a side by side comparison to VF. VF falls
>way short.
I disagree. Though I'm not really a totally enthusiastic player of fighting
games, my kids like them and I have all 3 games. With regards to playability
I think VF is a match for Tekken and surpasses Toshinden. If we're talking
just graphics, Toshinden and Tekken beat VF.
>
> Have you actually played the PSX version of RR?
I have played it many times.
> I think not.
>Because your discounting its replay value, when RR actually has a
>very high replay.
I agree. It does have high replay value and is a great game.
>What makes Daytona higher in replay?
It's a more playable game. It's more fun. Even though it's definitely arcade
it 'feels' more realistic. You definitely don't bounce off walls in the real
world (a la RR) you scrape them (a la Daytona).
> RR has more cars (13 in RR as opposed to only 2 in Daytona) that alone
>accounts for MAJOR replay boosts.
Have you played Daytona other than at the arcade? The Saturn mode has numerous
cars available and by winning you get to race additional ones (like winning
the shooting game in RR).
>RR has 2 tracks, and mirrors of
>both tracks with variations on each.
This is true.
>Seriously, Daytona has NOTHING over RR..
That's your opinion but I guess you took your Saturn back to the store so
quickly you didn't get to play Daytona because it is (IMO) definitely
better than RR.
> You hit the key here, Astal *LOOKS* better than Gunners..
>Different types of games. Astal is eye candy, Gunners is 60fps,
>million sprite, no slowdown blastfest.
Astal and Gunner's are different kinds of games. I have been playing
GH more than Astal. It's a great game. How do you get past those flying
shooting boat like things on the 3rd level??
Regards...Marc Baime
Jacqueline I. Vera-Y-aragon
sy...@aos.win.net (Robert McNaughton) writes:
>
>In article <3pdh6r$6...@netnews.upenn.edu>, Morris A. Davis (mod...@ssc.sas.upenn.edu) writes:
>>
>>: You notice how Electronics Boutique is riping people off? I
>>: called, asked how much they'd give me for Iron Soldier, the guy
>>: said "16 bux, tops".. Then, they turn around, and put them back
>>: on their shelf for $49.00. Talk about blood sucking scum.
>>
>>If you are so confident that they are making outrageous profits, why
>>don't you open your own store, offer "fairer" prices, and put EB's used
>>gaming section out of business?
>>
>>The higher the risk, the higher the return......
>>
>>Suppose your game doesn't work in three days.
>>Suppose noone buys the game...then they are 1) out sixteen dollars
>>(which could earn interest) and 2) out inventory space.
>>
>>High risk. High return.
>>
>>Save your spew for the children.
>
>awareness on the part of EB. a 300% profit?
>
> Secondly, most people will use the game trade-ins as credit for
>new games. So in essence, the gamers should be getting MORE.
>
> See, it works like this.
>
> Joe brings in a $60 game. EB gives him $15.00.. They mark it
>up to $49 and put it on their shelf. Joe goes to the new game
>section, and buys another $60 game, and uses his store credit of
>$15 for the purchase, bringing the price of the game down to
>$45.00. This is a game that EB bought wholesale for $40.00. So
>they make $5.00 on the sale. In a few days/weeks, EB sells the
>used game joe traded in for $49. So the end profit for EB is
>$54.00.. About what they would make selling 3 copies of a new
You're forgetting, not all of that is profit. When you subtract rent, wages,
marketing, etc.. their profit is alot smaller.
--
Justin
JV2...@american.edu
--
>game, or about the profit on a entire game system. Its a WIN WIN
>situation for EB. Very scummy.