Metroid FPS and the death of 2D gaming.
Kevin Sullivan
Metroid games is going to be a first-person shooter...
I hope I'm not the only one extremely disappointed by this news. Even
worse is the fact that the game was being developed as third person
game but Nintendo forced Retro Studios to change it to a first person
shooter because they don't like the camera issues that pop up in third
person action games....last I checked Metroid was an adventure game
with more of a focus on exploration than button mashing.
I'm sure it'll be a good game but it isn't going to be Metroid, just
like Mario 64 was a pretty cool game but it wasn't a 'Mario' game.
Here's to hoping for a new 2D Metroid on GBA...
I've never been so upset about the death of 2D side-scrolling gaming
as I am now...
It just seems so silly that Nintendo doesn't think Metroid was working
as a 3rd person 3D game so they are going to turn it into an
FPS....Here's an idea: make it a side-scrolling action/adventure game
just like the other games. When are people going to get bored with 3D
and realize that it's OK to make/play 2D games? It'd be awesome if
companies would continue to make 3D versions of their franchise games
but also make classic 2D versions with state-of-the-art graphics and
sound every once in a while. Who wouldn't love to play a 128-bit
side-scrolling Mario/Metroid/Castlevania game? With all the genres
that are out there I don't see why 2D platformers/sidescrollers have
to disappear just because 3D platformers/sidescrollers exist. They are
two completely different genres with their own great qualities.
I'm not saying 3D Mario/Zelda/Metroid/Sonic/Castlevania/Mega Man games
shouldn't be made but why the respective companies who make said games
don't also continue to make new 2D versions of their games is a
mystery to me. I don't see what would be so wrong about having one
team make a 3D Castlevania game and have another team working on a new
2D one. The companies would have more games available in the
franchises that are their bread and butter without having to have two
3D entries of the same franchise being released within months of each
other.
Not that that would ever happen, but it would rock...
Spike Spiegel
wrote:
Castlevania : Symphony Of The Night rocked...at least there will be a
new 2D Castlevania on GBA. The 3D incarnations were horrid.
Danoot
Kevin Sullivan wrote:
>
<snip>
> When are people going to get bored with 3D
> and realize that it's OK to make/play 2D games? It'd be awesome if
> companies would continue to make 3D versions of their franchise games
> but also make classic 2D versions with state-of-the-art graphics and
> sound every once in a while. Who wouldn't love to play a 128-bit
> side-scrolling Mario/Metroid/Castlevania game? With all the genres
> that are out there I don't see why 2D platformers/sidescrollers have
> to disappear just because 3D platformers/sidescrollers exist. They are
> two completely different genres with their own great qualities.
The last 2d sidescroller released by nintendo was yoshi's story.
It was okay, but it didn't sell real well, did it? Newcomers to the
gaming field are just not going to buy a gc game if it's a 2d sprite
based platformer. It doesn't seem right. It's been superseded for
consoles.. you just have to stick with the gba..
Not that I'd complain. I'd love if the new luigi/mario game had
super mario all stars hidden inside it.. that would be funtastic.
And it's not like it would take up much space.
> I'm not saying 3D Mario/Zelda/Metroid/Sonic/Castlevania/Mega Man games
> shouldn't be made but why the respective companies who make said games
> don't also continue to make new 2D versions of their games is a
> mystery to me. I don't see what would be so wrong about having one
> team make a 3D Castlevania game and have another team working on a new
> 2D one. The companies would have more games available in the
> franchises that are their bread and butter without having to have two
> 3D entries of the same franchise being released within months of each
> other.
Then the 2d versions would never sell.. when you see two games, and
they've the same main character and stuff, are you going to take
the 3d one, or the 2d one? So much emphasis has been put on how many
polygons consoles can push, 2d games have been irrevocably dated in
the minds of the gaming public.
And so on, and so forth.
Danoot
-- probably not at my most coherent --
Chris
Kevin Sullivan wrote:
I would like to see more 2D(style) games but I think that sprites are just
outdated. A better idea would be to make a game with 2D type camera angles
but have 3D models instead of sprites. It might sell a little bit better
then. I really enjoyed Yoshi's Story.
Chris
Kevin Sullivan wrote:
And another thing, how many weapons is Samus going to use in this FPS?.
Are they going to have her holding the weapons or keep the gun she has on
her arm?
Scummy
And another thing, where did this news come from?
Scummy
-------------------------
Please keep this packing slip as your verification of delivery.
flo...@usit.net
classics to the 3D realm, but 2D games still offer alot.
I blame gaming publications really. Other than the odd excitement for
some of the 2D fighter's out there, most mags really don't give any
props for other 2D games. Usually giving them low ratings and stating
that they are throwbacks to an old way of making games.
Castlevania SOTN did indeed rock, with gameplay that alot of these 3D
games don't come close too.
Makes me kinda excited for the GameBoy Advanced, as it seems that this
system could bring back alot of high quality 2D games, like the new
Castlevania for the handheld. And if they announce a Metroid for the
GBA, it surely will mimick it's older classic titles. Heck, I'd buy
the classics in a reworked package for the GBA.
As for Metroid Cube going FPS, I guess we'll just have to wait and see
how it turns out. I like FPS, but I would never put the gameplay of a
Metroid in this category. And if it turns into a pure FPS, there's
gonna be alot of disappointed Metroid fans.
You can have the shooting aspect work fairly well, but unless you have
a third person view that can be selected on the fly, I don't see, at
the moment, how some of the larger gaming techniques will work. The
abilities and morphing of Samus, and the tons of secret pathways
leading to rewards.
I guess the design of the actual worlds, in which you navigate, could
go a long way in getting the feel of a Metroid, but a FPS view just
doesn't sound right.
I do hope that Nintendo continues to bring their quality control to
the project. I've got my mind open. I'm just happy, that there's a new
Metroid to look forward too. And it wouldn't surprise me, if we get a
game that can be enjoyed, but that it might take a game or two, before
Metroid settles into it's new groove in the 3D world.
On Sat, 17 Feb 2001 21:21:15 -0600, Spike Spiegel <dou...@mail.com>
wrote:
Joshua Kaufman
>
> >And another thing, how many weapons is Samus going to use in this FPS?.
>
> And another thing, where did this news come from?
IGNCube....which gives it at least partial credibility, unfortunatly.
-Joshua (who hope hope hopes it's false)
--
AOL-IM: TerraEpon ICQ: 5404138
flo...@usit.net
wrote:
Interesting thought, though it would be simple to have her arm put out
in front of her, like all the other FPS.
The first thing I would have made Retro do, if I was Nintendo, was to
make them play through the previous versions of the game.
The thing that's gonna ruin the game, more than anything is a lack of
respect for the play mechanics of the past Metroids. I would think
that the game could be made well in the 3D arena.
I remember the naysayers of Zelda OOT and how the game couldn't come
close to being as enjoyable in the 3D world. IMHO it was perfectly
created in 3D, and there's enough gameplay mechanics in these new
Zelda's that have a Metroid feel to them. I'd look to these
masterpieces also if I was Retro.
It will definitely be intersting to see how they handle this game. The
FPS view doesn't seem right, from the moment you hear this news about
Metroid Cube. But it can be done with some thought and respect for the
mechanics of the old games.
And while I'm sure Miyamoto is a busy man, it wouldn't hurt to have
him in an advisory role with this game, as I'm sure he is.
flounda
The Good Guy
> I'm surprised no one is talking about the announcement that the new
> Metroid games is going to be a first-person shooter...
that's because alot of Metroid fans aren't interested in a Metroid game
that is not specifically being developed by Nintendo...
> I hope I'm not the only one extremely disappointed by this news. Even
> worse is the fact that the game was being developed as third person
> game but Nintendo forced Retro Studios to change it to a first person
> shooter because they don't like the camera issues that pop up in third
> person action games....last I checked Metroid was an adventure game
> with more of a focus on exploration than button mashing.
you really should not have been disappointed and have expected the worst
because it was not being developed by Nintendo...
> I'm sure it'll be a good game but it isn't going to be Metroid, just
> like Mario 64 was a pretty cool game but it wasn't a 'Mario' game.
> Here's to hoping for a new 2D Metroid on GBA...
what makes you think it'll be a good game? the fact that its made by a US
developer already reduces its chances of it being good...
> I've never been so upset about the death of 2D side-scrolling gaming
> as I am now...
>
> It just seems so silly that Nintendo doesn't think Metroid was working
> as a 3rd person 3D game so they are going to turn it into an
> FPS....Here's an idea: make it a side-scrolling action/adventure game
> just like the other games. When are people going to get bored with 3D
> and realize that it's OK to make/play 2D games? It'd be awesome if
> companies would continue to make 3D versions of their franchise games
> but also make classic 2D versions with state-of-the-art graphics and
> sound every once in a while. Who wouldn't love to play a 128-bit
> side-scrolling Mario/Metroid/Castlevania game? With all the genres
> that are out there I don't see why 2D platformers/sidescrollers have
> to disappear just because 3D platformers/sidescrollers exist. They are
> two completely different genres with their own great qualities.
>
> I'm not saying 3D Mario/Zelda/Metroid/Sonic/Castlevania/Mega Man games
> shouldn't be made but why the respective companies who make said games
> don't also continue to make new 2D versions of their games is a
> mystery to me. I don't see what would be so wrong about having one
> team make a 3D Castlevania game and have another team working on a new
> 2D one. The companies would have more games available in the
> franchises that are their bread and butter without having to have two
> 3D entries of the same franchise being released within months of each
> other.
>
> Not that that would ever happen, but it would rock...
your misinformed rant about the lack of 2D Mega Man and Castlevania games
reveals that you're just a Nintendo fanboy, oh well your loss, you missed
out on the awesome PSX Castlevania SOTN which played like Super Metroid
with a Castlevania theme...
The Good Guy
> And while I'm sure Miyamoto is a busy man, it wouldn't hurt to have
> him in an advisory role with this game, as I'm sure he is.
but the problem is that Gumpei Yokoi is the one responsible for Metroid and
he's dead...
Jeff Dworak
<witch...@start.com.au> wrote:
<snippage>
>
> I would like to see more 2D(style) games but I think that sprites are just
> outdated. A better idea would be to make a game with 2D type camera angles
> but have 3D models instead of sprites. It might sell a little bit better
> then. I really enjoyed Yoshi's Story.
>
Klonoa (1 and upcoming 2) do this, and it works pretty well. 2D
mechanics, 3D "gosh gee whiz" graphics.
Joshua Kaufman
Hell....Nitnendo (well HAL)'s done it ("2.5D") themselves, in Kirby 64.
-Joshua
Shagistral
step back and reflect on it. Sure, Metroid is an -adventure- game. But
from the looks of it, they have a good amount of people who made Half-Life
on the team, and that game plays a LOT like an adventure game, just with a
first person view.
If it's even remotely like Half-Life set in the Metroid universe, I'll be
pleased. Don't shoot it down, we haven't even seen an in-game screenshot
yet.
- Shagistral -
"Stoke me a clipper, I'll be back for
Christmas."
ICQ: 105859042
Kevin Sullivan <ke...@beestung.net> wrote in message
news:3a8f140c...@news.optonline.net...
Chris
The Good Guy wrote:
> Kevin Sullivan wrote:
>
> > I'm surprised no one is talking about the announcement that the new
> > Metroid games is going to be a first-person shooter...
>
> that's because alot of Metroid fans aren't interested in a Metroid game
> that is not specifically being developed by Nintendo...
>
Nintendo is the one that made Retro change it to a FPS. They obviously have a
lot of input
(e)magius
into 3D games play poorly?
--(e)magius
Dacium wrote:
>
> if you want 2d get a gameboy advance, whats the point of having a
> 400Mhz 64bit consoles with all this and that to play some 2d game.
>
> In article <3a8f140c...@news.optonline.net>, ke...@beestung.net says...
Kevin Sullivan
wrote:
You're other pointless comments aside, I don't see how criticizing
Nintendo makes me a fanboy. I believe fanboy is a term reserved for
those who attack the opinions of others for no apparent reason.
ANYWAY....
It is true that Capcom has been good about the Mega Man series, they
made 3 32-bit 2D side scrolling MM games (MM8, X4 and X5) and only two
3D MM games (Legends/Dash 1 and 2). Konami however made one awesome 2D
Castlevania game which is arguably one of the top three PSX games ever
(and it sold just fine) but made two horrendous 3D incarnations and
scrapped the 3D Castlevania Resurrection for DC (which I was actually
looking forward to). There are some good 3D games but by and large
trying to move 2D franchises into 3D has resulted in more misses then
hits. Mario 64 was a good game but it ain't a Mario game. Zelda is
awesome but an overhead 2D game translates much better to 3D than a 2D
sidescroller. Yet even though Nintendo has themselves made public
their opinion that 3D 3rd person action games don't work they insist
on making Metroid a 3D game albeit as an FPS instead of just sticking
with the formula that made Metroid popular in the first place.
It all comes down to the fact that people aren't going to buy 2D games
no matter how good they are...it's all about the hype. If the average
consumer had any interest in good games rather than hype and how good
the games look, the Dreamcast wouldn't be dead and the PS2 would never
have sold as many units as it has with virtually no good games yet and
only a few coming in the next 3 months. The old video game industry
adage that it doesn't matter how powerful a system is, it has to have
awesome games in order to get people to buy it went out the window
with this generation of systems. The opposite is true now. Hype rules,
good games suck.
Kevin Sullivan
<shagi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>While I had a similiar first impression upon this news, I took a moment to
>step back and reflect on it. Sure, Metroid is an -adventure- game. But
>from the looks of it, they have a good amount of people who made Half-Life
>on the team, and that game plays a LOT like an adventure game, just with a
>first person view.
>
>If it's even remotely like Half-Life set in the Metroid universe, I'll be
>pleased. Don't shoot it down, we haven't even seen an in-game screenshot
>yet.
That's why I say that it will probably be a good or even great game
but it just isn't going to be a Metroid game. They'd be better off
creating a new franchise if they want to create a sci-fi FPS/adventure
game. Hell, they already have Perfect Dark which is supposedly going
to be a launch title. That said, if they were still planning on making
a more traditional Metroid game I'd be all for a Metroid FPS in the
same way that it'd be cool to see Zelda turned into a fighting game
knowing that a proper installment is forthcoming.
Omarichu
>(and it sold just fine)
Actually it sold pretty poorly for a Konami PSX game. But don't let facts get
in the way of your moronicity.
> but made two horrendous 3D incarnations
The 3D Castlevanias weren't horrendous, idiot.
>Mario 64 was a good game but it ain't a Mario game.
Yes it is. Has Mario in it, has Mario in the title, and Nintendo (the owners of
Mario) published it. Sorry.
>Metroid a 3D game albeit as an FPS instead of just sticking
>with the formula that made Metroid popular in the first place.
What? If Nintendo says that the third person view doesn't work, I trust them.
This is Nintendo we're talking about here. No one knows more about software
quality than they do.
>consumer had any interest in good games rather than hype and how good
>the games look, the Dreamcast wouldn't be dead
As if your post wasn't dumb enough, you have to go here. Suffice it to say that
Sega being in the hardware business is about as diametrically opposed to the
concept of "quality" as one gets.
>and the PS2 would never
>have sold as many units as it has with virtually no good games yet and
>only a few coming in the next 3 months.
The PS2 has more good games than the Dreamcast. Don't let it get to you.
---
"I pledge allegiance to the snow of the United snow of America. And to the
republic for which it snows, one nation, under snow, indi-snow-ible, with
liberty and justice for snow." Man reading patriotic plaque immediately
following a snowstorm.
Omarichu
>That's why I say that it will probably be a good or even great game
>but it just isn't going to be a Metroid game.
Has Metroid in the title, stars Samus Aran, and is published by Nintendo.
Sounds like a Metroid game to me.
Billy Bissette
says...
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2001 19:16:56 GMT, The Good Guy <TheB...@spamme.net>
> wrote:
> >your misinformed rant about the lack of 2D Mega Man and Castlevania games
> >reveals that you're just a Nintendo fanboy, oh well your loss, you missed
> >out on the awesome PSX Castlevania SOTN which played like Super Metroid
> >with a Castlevania theme...
>
> You're other pointless comments aside, I don't see how criticizing
> Nintendo makes me a fanboy.
You were being called a Nintendo fanboy because your earlier post
ignored the existance of Symphany of the Night on the PSX, and the
later X games on the Saturn and PSX.
Konami and Capcom *did* continue to develop 2D versions of Castlevania
and Megaman, respectively, while trying to also bring them into 3D. You
went as far as to say such a thing would never happen.
> I believe fanboy is a term reserved for
> those who attack the opinions of others for no apparent reason.
In this case, it was probably referring to someone who was blind of
the existance of games on other platforms. But you do acknowledge
2D MMX and CV games, so there is only the question of why you ignored
them.
> It is true that Capcom has been good about the Mega Man series, they
> made 3 32-bit 2D side scrolling MM games (MM8, X4 and X5) and only two
> 3D MM games (Legends/Dash 1 and 2).
X5 not being that good, compared to prior X games. Short, easy
(excepted the force ride sections which are harder than ever it
seems), no real voices in game, and no real effort at story presentation
outside of the game. And those god-awful annoying constant messages
while you *try* to play a stage.
MML2 on the other hand seems to be just beginning to take the 3D
environment into stride as well as the whole storyline aspect. You
might want to count Misadventures of Tron Bonne as well, though it
doesn't have Mega Man in it. (The most entertaining of the 3D MM games
and spin-offs.)
> Konami however made one awesome 2D
> Castlevania game which is arguably one of the top three PSX games ever
> (and it sold just fine) but made two horrendous 3D incarnations and
> scrapped the 3D Castlevania Resurrection for DC (which I was actually
> looking forward to).
I've heard that Symphony of the Night did not sell as well as Konami
had hoped.
As for the N64 Castlevania games, it was pretty much stated when the
second came out that the first was *not* what they wanted and the
second was an attempt to redeem the effort spent. But it falls flat
as well.
The DC version was plagued with problems and showed hints of being
doomed from rather early on. Even if the game had been finished, there
is no real gurantee that it would have avoided some of the N64 problems.
Sidescrolling 'brawlers' (which is pretty much what CV is in the attack
and movement area) have generally suffered the move to 3D.
> Mario 64 was a good game but it ain't a Mario game.
It looks like Mario. It effectively plays like Mario. Look back
at the history of Mario games and see just how different they can
be. The SMB series, the Yoshi series, Mario Bros, etc...
> Zelda is
> awesome but an overhead 2D game translates much better to 3D than a 2D
> sidescroller. Yet even though Nintendo has themselves made public
> their opinion that 3D 3rd person action games don't work they insist
> on making Metroid a 3D game albeit as an FPS instead of just sticking
> with the formula that made Metroid popular in the first place.
Metroid is probably dead as a 'creative' line anyway. The driving
force behind the series who kept it all tied together to some overall
vision, has passed away. It's now just a license for Nintendo to
milk and farm out.
And the simple truth is that a FPS perspective will require the
loss of a lot of the things that define a Metroid game as a Metroid
game. (Well, the gameplay things that fit a 'Samus' game.
Technically you can make a Metroid game with only Metroid carrying
over and an entirely new protagonist who fights and controls
entirely different.)
Dean Siren
and FPS, remember that Donkey Kong underwent comparable changes when it went
from NES and GB to SNES and N64. Compare the original Donkey Kong to DK 64.
They're completely different! From a 2D Japanese game where you use Mario fight
DK, to a 3D British game where you use DK to fight lizards, it's totally
different! And yet every game in the series is fun.
Starfox has also undergone a lot of change. Most of the staff are different
between Starfox 1 and Starfox 64, and they feel noticably different, yet both
games are fun.
I think Retro's Metroid will be fine. I'm looking forward to the changes,
really!
The Good Guy
> If you're worried that Metroid won't be any good now that it's outsourced, 3D
> and FPS, remember that Donkey Kong underwent comparable changes when it went
> from NES and GB to SNES and N64. Compare the original Donkey Kong to DK 64.
> They're completely different! From a 2D Japanese game where you use Mario fight
> DK, to a 3D British game where you use DK to fight lizards, it's totally
> different! And yet every game in the series is fun.
the Donkey Kong Country games sucked, they are prime examples of games that sold on
graphics instead of gameplay...
Mark
In article <3A9119CD...@purdue.edu>, "(e)magius" <mag...@purdue.edu>
wrote:
>Because polygonal games look horrible? Because virtually all 2D games
converted
>into 3D games play poorly?
Yeah, N64 Zelda and PSX/DC Soul Reaver really played poorly... As did Sonic
Adventure and all those racing games (which were once 2D).
-Mrk
Chris
Kevin Sullivan wrote:
> That's why I say that it will probably be a good or even great game
> but it just isn't going to be a Metroid game. They'd be better off
> creating a new franchise if they want to create a sci-fi FPS/adventure
> game. Hell, they already have Perfect Dark which is supposedly going
> to be a launch title.
I heard that PD news as well but I don't believe it at all, look at Rare's
early N64 games, with the exception of KIGold they were all new and different
meaning Rare didn't use a popular franchise. This is because they are saving
the popular titles until later so they know more about the console and can
squeeze out a lot more power.
(e)magius
think of.
Best,
--Imad "(e)magius" Hussain
_____________________________________________________________________
"He who laughs last is usually the dumbest kid on the block." -- John
Lennon, _Skywriting_By_Word_of_Mouth_
_____________________________________________________________________
Kevin Sullivan
You took the words right out of my mouth...The DKC series has to be
one of the the most overrated series ever. DK64 is a great game
though. I would have much rather seen a bunch of Super Mario World
games on SNES than the horrendous DKC games.
I remember them boasting how the game had over 100 levels. They didn't
mention that those little 2 screen length hidden caves you find count
as levels.I beat the game in under 3 hours.
Dean Siren
> one of the the most overrated series ever. DK64 is a great game
> though.
What? DK64 is essentially DKC4. How can you like DK64 but not DKC1-3?
TheShredder
> Makes me kinda excited for the GameBoy Advanced, as it seems that this
> system could bring back alot of high quality 2D games, like the new
> Castlevania for the handheld. And if they announce a Metroid for the
> GBA, it surely will mimick it's older classic titles. Heck, I'd buy
> the classics in a reworked package for the GBA.
>
Exactly. Either re-release some of the old Metroid games in a Super Mario
All Stars type format, or make brand new 2D Side Scrollers with the same
format.
Imagine, being able to play an Advanced Metroid 1, and 2. Same Sound
effects, better graphics. Same goes with MegaMan, Zelda, etc.
That would be top on my list. As it stands now, I plan on getting Mario
Advance, Pac-Man Advance, and one other game I have yet to decide on :).
Probably going to be Mega Man EXE, depending on what the final product will
look like. Either that, or Futureama.
Deadmaker7
My favorite example of this was NiGHTS for SS. A beautiful 2.5D game.
Chris
Hmm.. your right, I guess they knew that their planned titles would become popular.
Scummy
>one of the the most overrated series ever. DK64 is a great game
>though.
Man, that's a total switch. All I've heard up till this point is how the DKC
series is one of the best series ever and DK64 was overrated.
I myself only played the first DKC, but I loved it. I also really enjoyed
DK64, but I'm still only about a quarter done with it.
Scummy
-------------------------
Please keep this packing slip as your verification of delivery.
Chad Faber
Dean Siren wrote in message ...
>If you're worried that Metroid won't be any good now that it's outsourced,
3D
>and FPS, remember that Donkey Kong underwent comparable changes when it
went
>from NES and GB to SNES and N64. Compare the original Donkey Kong to DK
64.
>They're completely different! From a 2D Japanese game where you use Mario
fight
>DK, to a 3D British game where you use DK to fight lizards, it's totally
>different! And yet every game in the series is fun.
>
Kong arcade and the Rare DKC incarnations...*sob*.
>Starfox has also undergone a lot of change. Most of the staff are
different
>between Starfox 1 and Starfox 64, and they feel noticably different, yet
both
>games are fun.
>
Yet, they are both essentially the same in genre (3D shooter). 2D platform
shooter to FPS, as Sam Jackson said in Pulp Fiction, "isn't in the same
ballback, it ain't even in the same f!#$ing league!"
>I think Retro's Metroid will be fine. I'm looking forward to the changes,
>really!
>
I'm hoping it'll be fine. I'm not as excited as I once was and I remain
cautiously optimistic. I also hold out hope that Intelligent Systems
(formeraly R&D1, creators of the original series minus the creator) will do
a GBA version.
-Chad
Shagistral
promotional video out of the blue in July or so, and all I could do was
watch it a million times in waiting. A friend lent me his GamePro magazine
because he thought I'd probably win the DKC contest in it. Well, sent in a
picture me myself standing next to a "98%" completion and won a free Game
Genie. Whoo.
--
-Shagistral
ICQ: 105859042
"Stoke me a clipper, I'll be back for Christmas."
#193 on the AGD SETI team and rising. Last victims: Jo'Shai, Jacob Hayes,
RichG.
Scummy <scu...@aol.com> wrote in message
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DarkStorm
>
> >
> >That's why I say that it will probably be a good or even great game
> >but it just isn't going to be a Metroid game.
>
> Has Metroid in the title, stars Samus Aran, and is published by Nintendo.
> Sounds like a Metroid game to me.
By *that* logic, Super Smash Brothers is nearly a Metroid game. (It has
Samus, it's published by Nintendo - if it had 'Metroid' in the title
it'd be three-for-three). :)
By that logic, too, Super Smash Brothers is also 2/3 Pokemon, Legend of
Zelda, Mother (Earthbound), F-Zero, Starfox, Donkey Kong Country, and
more than 2/3 of Super Mario Brothers (because two out of three words in
the title of 'Super Mario Brothers' are in 'Super Smash Brothers', so
it's 8/9 of the way there) :)
In other words, it takes more to make 'a Metroid game' or 'a <fill in
the game series of your choice> game' than the title, the publisher, and
the character.
-Raiutaryuu-
Actually, Samus in SSB is more faithful to the Metroid games than any
FPS version could be.
Scummy
>the game series of your choice> game' than the title, the publisher, and
>the character.
Um...no.
You just used plenty of examples that didn't fit the description saying they
almost fit the description and so it still counts...
DarkStorm
Um.. no.
I said, that by using *Omarichu's* logic (that all you need is the
publisher, the main character, and the name), Super Smash Brothers
almost completely qualifies a sequel to all those games (when it
obviously isn't).
Anyone remember Donkey Kong 3, released about the same time as Mario
Brothers (not Super Mario Brothers)? That had the title, the title
character (Donkey Kong, not Mario), *and* it was programmed by Nintendo
(that's 3-for-3!) - but it was a shooter, and it tanked, because people
who liked to play Donkey Kong were expecting a
climb-to-the-top-of-the-screen platformer (like DK and DK Jr), and
people who wanted a shooter weren't going to think of Donkey Kong.
(Disclaimer: It's actually sort of a fun game - but it's not a Donkey
Kong game).
Unless they hype this game to death, people who liked Metroid aren't
necessarily going to like a complete change of genre for the game, and
people who like FPS games aren't necessarily going to associate the
Metroid name (traditionally an exploration-based game, with shooting
only really becoming top priority in boss fights) with that type of
game. A lose-lose situation unless the game is awesome (and I mean
'awesome' in the literal sense, not the more common watered-down usage)
enough to make up for all those doubts.
I'll wait and see, but it's going to take a lot to convince me (soured
as I was on the whole FPS genre by my own completely unentertaining,
repetetive, and frustrating experiences on Wolfenstein 3-D and Duke
Nuke'em 3-D)
-Raiutaryuu-
(Of course, it didn't help that I was introduced to both FPS games by
people who insisted that it's no fun if you don't play it for the very
first time at the highest level of difficulty) :)
mganai
Omarichu wrote:
>
> >Castlevania game which is arguably one of the top three PSX games ever
> >(and it sold just fine)
>
> Actually it sold pretty poorly for a Konami PSX game. But don't let facts get
> in the way of your moronicity.
>
> > but made two horrendous 3D incarnations
>
> The 3D Castlevanias weren't horrendous, idiot.
>
> >Mario 64 was a good game but it ain't a Mario game.
>
> Yes it is. Has Mario in it, has Mario in the title, and Nintendo (the owners of
> Mario) published it. Sorry.
>
> >Metroid a 3D game albeit as an FPS instead of just sticking
> >with the formula that made Metroid popular in the first place.
>
> What? If Nintendo says that the third person view doesn't work, I trust them.
> This is Nintendo we're talking about here. No one knows more about software
> quality than they do.
>
> >consumer had any interest in good games rather than hype and how good
> >the games look, the Dreamcast wouldn't be dead
>
> As if your post wasn't dumb enough, you have to go here. Suffice it to say that
> Sega being in the hardware business is about as diametrically opposed to the
> concept of "quality" as one gets.
>
> >and the PS2 would never
> >have sold as many units as it has with virtually no good games yet and
> >only a few coming in the next 3 months.
>
> The PS2 has more good games than the Dreamcast. Don't let it get to you.
>
In Bizarro World maybe.
Omarichu
>publisher, the main character, and the name), Super Smash Brothers
>almost completely qualifies a sequel to all those games (when it
>obviously isn't).
You're obviously a dullard and were caught with your pants down in this
particular debate. Still if you're going to flop around like an idiot, at least
come up with a passable argument.
>(Disclaimer: It's actually sort of a fun game - but it's not a Donkey
>Kong game).
Yes it is. Donkey Kong's in it, genius.
>necessarily going to like a complete change of genre for the game, and
>people who like FPS games aren't necessarily going to associate the
>Metroid name (traditionally an exploration-based game, with shooting
>only really becoming top priority in boss fights) with that type of
>game
You're obviously an idiot. Metroid is Metroid whether it's done from a third
person or first person perspective. If you think such semantics have anything
to do with the basic gameplay elements, it's clear you don't have a good idea
of what it's about. Still keep flopping.
>A lose-lose situation unless the game is awesome (and I mean
>'awesome' in the literal sense, not the more common watered-down usage)
>enough to make up for all those doubts.
>
There are no doubts. Normal people don't hear a simple thing (it's first
person) and assume to judge the entire game without anything else to go on.
>I'll wait and see, but it's going to take a lot to convince me
No one cares. Non-idiots are going to enjoy it.
mganai
Omarichu wrote:
>
> >
> >That's why I say that it will probably be a good or even great game
> >but it just isn't going to be a Metroid game.
>
> Has Metroid in the title, stars Samus Aran, and is published by Nintendo.
> Sounds like a Metroid game to me.
>
But let's not forget that it's under the wing of a different developer.
Shagistral
So close, in fact, that they've ordered them to change gaming format
completely. Point checked. Next, please.
--
-Shagistral
ICQ: 105859042
"Stoke me a clipper, I'll be back for Christmas."
#193 on the AGD SETI team and rising. Last victims: Jo'Shai, Jacob Hayes,
RichG.
mganai <mga...@scf.usc.edu> wrote in message
news:3A99A1E1...@scf.usc.edu...
Chris
this message) is that if Retro AND Nintendo make Metroid an FPS then from now on
Metroid should be considered to be in the FPS genre, just because it wasn't an FPS
in the past doesn't mean that it can't be transformed into one. You may like the
previous Metroids better but that doesn't mean that all Metroids in the future have
to be exactly the same. Stop living in the past and accept that the Metroid series
is evolving like everything does.
Joshua Kaufman
>
> What some people are failing to realise (not Omarichu, I just happened to reply to
> this message) is that if Retro AND Nintendo make Metroid an FPS then from now on
> Metroid should be considered to be in the FPS genre, just because it wasn't an FPS
> in the past doesn't mean that it can't be transformed into one. You may like the
> previous Metroids better but that doesn't mean that all Metroids in the future have
> to be exactly the same. Stop living in the past and accept that the Metroid series
> is evolving like everything does.
>
But 'evolving' doesn't always mean good. Just look at Mario 64.
-Joshua
--
AOL-IM: TerraEpon ICQ: 5404138
flo...@usit.net
Well, I'm not sure how to reply to your statement about Mario64. I've
always thought, that it was one of the very few classics, that were
brought into the 3D world, keeping to it's roots well.
As far as Metroid having to be classified as a FPS, I guess you
personally can put that label on the game, but it's far to early to
just be throwing out labels just yet.
Labels of games, offer a quick way to describe a game for someone else
who hasn;t played a title before, but it often lacks alot of the
deeper mechanics in some games.
And this could wind up true about the new Metroid. It could easily
wind up using many ideas from many different genres. Or it could
easily be a straight up shooter. We'll just have to wait and see.
flounda
m.ca...@btinternet.com
> As far as Metroid having to be classified as a FPS, I guess you
> personally can put that label on the game, but it's far to early to
> just be throwing out labels just yet.
>
> Labels of games, offer a quick way to describe a game for someone else
> who hasn;t played a title before, but it often lacks alot of the
> deeper mechanics in some games.
>
I remember all the critics going on about Zelda 64's combat being pointless, if it has a lock-on
system. I also seem to remember alot of doubt over the 'auto-jumping' of Zelda. But, when the game
was released, these two systems worked fine.
I am not bothered about Metroid being FPS, it may (and probably will) turn out to be very good.
Chris
Joshua Kaufman wrote:
Didn't say that the new is going to be better
DarkStorm
>You're obviously an idiot.
....enter the 'discussion', count me out. I *thought* I was trying to
point out (using a delibrately exaggerated example) that it takes more
than a name, or a character, to reproduce a 'feel' (which Metroid
"Cubed" may or may not reproduce - as I said, I'll wait and see), but it
seems I was actually arguing that it is going to be the worst thing
since New Coke. :)
(Note: Smiley-face. Joke.) :)
If it turns out that I'm wrong about a game I haven't played and know
nothing about beyond a few articles, then I'm wrong. "Wrong" and
"stupid" are two different things. We're *all* running on hearsay,
speculation, and outright guesses here.
If you're going to reply, reply - don't flame.
-Raiutaryuu-
Bringing manners to the Internet! - a lost cause, I know... :)
Omarichu
>point out (using a delibrately exaggerated example) that it takes more
>than a name, or a character, to reproduce a 'feel' (
At which point I showed that you were clearly diverting the meaning behind my
pretty clear explanation to find a way out in order to continue prejudging a
game you won't be playing for another year. I mean come on.
mganai
Mark wrote:
> Sure, but most 'sequels' have different people working on them. The
> programmers, artists, etc. tend to change through time. That's part of what
> makes sequels different.
>
> -Mrk
Yeah. That's what I had in mind though. It can still make a drastic
difference in game quality, especially when Konami handed their Contra
duties for the PS over to Appaloosa.
Mark
It can also go the other way, and wind up with an exceptional game. The only
thing we can really do is hold judgement until we've played the game. Anything
else is just funtime speculation.
-Mrk