My take on the handhleds
AceoHearts
and I think it holds true today. People were bashing the GC because it
couldn't play DVD's like the PS2 and XBox. They also complained about the
lack of games and online ability of the GC.
Now years later people are going nuts because the PSP can play movies and
music and has a larger, better selection of games than the DS. Well I have
a DS because I want a handheld that plays games. If I want to listen to
music, I have an MP3 player. If I want to watch a movie, I have a portable
DVD player. Why should my handheld gaming system be bogged down with all
the other software to run things I don't want in a gaming system? I am a
firm believer in multi-tasking units, but some things are best left alone.
If you buy a combo DVD player and TV, and the DVD player goes, you are
without a TV while it gets fixed. Same goes if the TV dies.
Since I got my DS, I have picked up Mr Driller, Yoshi Touch and Go, Super
Mario 64 DS, Sprung, and Wario Ware Touched. I can't wait for the release
of Advance Wars DS, Animal Crossing DS, Metroid, Harvest Moon DS, the new
Castlevania, Gyakuten Saiban's court room game, and a host of other to come
out. The many system releases is that there are 20 or 30 games that come
out and you end up missing some good ones. Or you buy so many you never
have the chance to finish them before the next round of games come out.
The other nice thing about the DS is the GBA slot. Now I can take my DS
with me with 2 different games and not have to worry about losing cartridges
or swamping out games and them getting damaged etc. A handheld gaming
system needs to be just that, a gaming system. Not a movie theater, radio
station, photo album that will also play games if you want to.
AceoHearts
Jacob Oost
has Spiderman 2 (the movie) as a pack-in (for the first million units
sold). After that, just how many people are going to buy UMD movies
from the awfully limited selection that has been announced? Given the
option, do you want the DVD or the UMD version? Are you going to re-buy
a movie you already have just for the UMD version? Do you honestly see
yourself using the PSP to watch movies, knowing that it will eat up a
huge chunk of the battery life in just one viewing?
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kings...@yahoo.com
these in no particular order, just as they occur to me.)
Sony PSP
---------------------------------
Pros:
- clearly the high end of handheld gaming hardware
- MP3 playback
- movies on the go
- good launch line-up with more software in the pipeline
- memory stick port
Cons:
- battery life (at least it's rechargable)
- re-buying your favorite movies on UMD format
- durability issues
- Sony's stand on dead pixels
- $250 for a toy?!?
Nintendo DS
---------------------------------
Pros:
- Nintendo's first party software
- much better screen for GBA games than the SP
- battery life
- touchscreen interface (well, it's cool with games that use it well,
like the Metroid demo)
- free wireless internet gaming (dunno if PSP will be free)
Cons:
- sparse launch line-up, with new games slow to appear
- no GB/GBC copmatibility, and certain GBA features won't work
- $150 for a toy?!?
As things stand, I'm leaning towards the DS myself. But not until the
price comes down another $50! (So it will probably be a while - at
least then there will be more games!)
fish
> Pros and cons of the DS and PSP, as I see them. (Note I am listing
> these in no particular order, just as they occur to me.)
> Sony PSP
It has that "wow" factor, but being an adult who has paid the price for
buying a MiniDisc, I am no longer impressed with any gadget that offers
nothing of value for the price.
> Pros:
> - clearly the high end of handheld gaming hardware
Not really. The Nintendo DS has 2 screens while the Sony PSP has only 1.
Anything less than 2 screens is only half the fun.
> - MP3 playback
> - movies on the go
Not with that aweful battery life. That's the only reason I have yet to buy
a portable DVD player, I can't seem to find one with enough battery life to
watch more than 1 movie between recharging.
> - good launch line-up with more software in the pipeline
> - memory stick port
I have a memory stick and let me tell you that they are expensive. I
actually prefer the SD memory cards because they are smaller, cheaper and
have more memory.
> Cons:
> - battery life (at least it's rechargable)
> - re-buying your favorite movies on UMD format
That is a very serious drawback because without a standard, Sony can produce
complete crap, charge whatever they feel and get away with it because they
invented it.
> - durability issues
> - Sony's stand on dead pixels
That's really bad PR. Sony is taking a huge risk that may cost them consumer
loyalty.
> - $250 for a toy?!?
It's cheaper than the MiniDisc (I regret buying that crap years ago).
> Nintendo DS
I actually bought a Nintendo DS a few weeks ago.
> Pros:
> - Nintendo's first party software
> - much better screen for GBA games than the SP
Another pro is the dual screen concept. It's brilliant! The value of the 2nd
display when playing a game really is helpful.
> - battery life
> - touchscreen interface (well, it's cool with games that use it well,
> like the Metroid demo)
> - free wireless internet gaming (dunno if PSP will be free)
>
> Cons:
> - sparse launch line-up, with new games slow to appear
> - no GB/GBC copmatibility, and certain GBA features won't work
> - $150 for a toy?!?
I don't feel that $150 is a con when the competition cost $250.
> As things stand, I'm leaning towards
> the DS myself. But not until the price
> comes down another $50! (So it will
> probably be a while - at least then
> there will be more games!)
I will recommend buying it now because you can pick up Super Mario 64 DS
(it's a huge game) and by the time you actually complete it (including all
the mini-games), you will see more titles.
The upcoming STAR WARS - Episode III game will hopefully utilize the touch
screen.
So, there you go. You have my recommendation if you do decide to buy it now.
By the way, is there a forum where we can discuss tips and strategies on the
games?
Cheers!
--
I am the fish and I approve this message.
______________
=====fish=====
kings...@yahoo.com
>
>I have a memory stick and let me tell you that they are expensive. I
>actually prefer the SD memory cards because they are smaller, cheaper
>and have more memory.
I agree here, but seeing how no other gaming handheld has had memory
card port of any kind, having one that is at least compatible with
other devices is a huge plus. (Then again, that new MP3 cart in Japan
is a step in the right direction for Nintendo. Just too bad it is an
additional purtchase.)
>> - much better screen for GBA games than the SP
>
>Another pro is the dual screen concept. It's brilliant! The value of
>the 2nd display when playing a game really is helpful.
Well... yes and no. The dual screen idea offers a lot of potential,
we'll see how well it pans out. I feel the touchscreen capability is a
more significant advance than the dual display.
>> - $150 for a toy?!?
>
>I don't feel that $150 is a con when the competition cost $250.
Granted, the DS is much more affordable. But $150 is still a lot of
money. (I am a cheap bastard at heart!)
>By the way, is there a forum where we can discuss tips and strategies
>on the games?
This forum good enough for ya? You can discuss anything game related
here - just as long as it is related to Nintendo.
fish
>> Another pro is the dual screen
>> concept. It's brilliant! The value
>> of the 2nd display when playing
>> a game really is helpful.
> Well... yes and no. The dual
> screen idea offers a lot of potential,
When playing Super Mario 64 DS, I often rely on the bottom display in order
to figure out where I am on the map and what strategy I should use.
Jacob Oost
> Not really. The Nintendo DS has 2 screens while the Sony PSP has only 1.
> Anything less than 2 screens is only half the fun.
>
So, how do *I* become a Nintendo PR guy?
> That is a very serious drawback because without a standard, Sony can produce
> complete crap, charge whatever they feel and get away with it because they
> invented it.
>
I can't imagine people actually buying these UMD movies.
Lower-resolution than DVD, eats up most of your battery life, and can't
watch it on a tv. Seems like a gimmick. Little kids may enjoy watching
Spongebob on their GBAs but will grownups shell out twenty bucks for a
movie they can pay the same price for a DVD (with special features,
better sound and picture quality, etc.)?
>>- Sony's stand on dead pixels
>
>
> That's really bad PR. Sony is taking a huge risk that may cost them consumer
> loyalty.
>
Their craptacular customer service and repair/replacement deals didn't
hurt them much in the PS2 area. BTW, Gamespot mentions that the
one-year limited warranty is on page 125 of the PSP manual. Just how
many pages does a handheld manual need? This PSP must be
super-expensive if Sony is going to act like replacing dead-pixel units
is akin to pulling teeth. Gamespot also mentioned that half of their
PSPs have pixel problems.
> Another pro is the dual screen concept. It's brilliant! The value of the 2nd
> display when playing a game really is helpful.
>
It's nice but the next big innovation in gaming should be a 3D
controller (i.e. one that controls all three axes, not just two like a
control stick or directional pad or mouse or stylus, hopefully
Nintendo's new controller will make use of gyroscopic controls to
achieve this).
>>Cons:
>>- sparse launch line-up, with new games slow to appear
>>- no GB/GBC copmatibility, and certain GBA features won't work
>>- $150 for a toy?!?
>
>
> I don't feel that $150 is a con when the competition cost $250.
>
If you trade-in two GBA games and a working SP at EB, you get a DS for
99 bucks. I went into my local EB to do just that, SP and two games in
my pocket. There was nothing on the DS I wanted but I thought I may as
well since there was bound to be something good soon, plus I could still
play my GBA games. As soon as I walk in I see two guys behind the
counter, one is ranting to the other about how great the PSP is and how
horrible the DS is and how you'd have to be stupid to buy it. You think
I was going to buy something from that guy? That EB lost a customer
that day.
> I will recommend buying it now because you can pick up Super Mario 64 DS
> (it's a huge game) and by the time you actually complete it (including all
> the mini-games), you will see more titles.
>
I'm wondering how much I'd want SM64 on the DS. I loved the first one
but do I want to play it again without the analog stick that made it so
revolutionary?
> The upcoming STAR WARS - Episode III game will hopefully utilize the touch
> screen.
>
Wookie Rage or something? I looked at Gamespot and IGN for lists of
upcoming DS games. They didn't have a single thing listed that tickled
my fancy, whereas on the GBA there are games from two or three years ago
I still want to buy.
fish
>> Not really. The Nintendo DS has 2
>> screens while the Sony PSP has only 1.
>> Anything less than 2 screens is only half the fun.
> So, how do *I* become a Nintendo PR guy?
If you actually own a Nintendo, you have already arrived.
I love Nintendo's Seal of Quality. Very original.
If Microsoft were to create their own Seal of Quality award, they wouldn't
qualify for their own award since their products often crash (endless
service packs prove it).
> Their craptacular customer service
> and repair/replacement deals didn't
> hurt them much in the PS2 area.
Maybe their target audience doesn't know any better?
> Gamespot also mentioned that half
> of their PSPs have pixel problems.
Defective units from Sony do not surprise me anymore. What surprises me is
the loyalty of their consumer base. They will pledge allegiance to Sony, the
one and only.
>> I don't feel that $150 is a con
>> when the competition cost $250.
> If you trade-in two GBA games
> and a working SP at EB, you get
> a DS for 99 bucks.
If you have it, trade it.
I had a nice deal actually. I won a $50 gift card at work a few months ago,
so I used it as a nice discount for my Nintendo DS. So, instead of paying
$150 for it, I paid $100 bucks.
> As soon as I walk in I see two guys
> behind the counter, one is ranting to
> the other about how great the PSP
> is and how horrible the DS is and
> how you'd have to be stupid to buy
> it.
Yeh, well that guy was an obvious Sony Lemming. He will never learn his ($$$
expensive $$$) lesson. If you give him attention, he wins. If you ignore
him, he lost.
> You think I was going to buy something
> from that guy? That EB lost a customer
> that day.
Very good. You did the right thing.
> I'm wondering how much I'd want SM64
> on the DS. I loved the first one but do I
> want to play it again without the analog
> stick that made it so revolutionary?
It's portable, so you just do your best. Besides, it is a different game
now, with the new characters and level tweaks.
Only 1 red block. No green or blue blocks anymore. No more metal Mario. It's
Metal Wario. All characters grow to super size when you pick up a red
mushroom! You can then knock out every enemy, bullet bill included. In fact,
run through Bullet Bill's Cannon and knock it out of service completely!
Wait until you see how easy it is to get on the roof of the ghost mansion to
collect the power star (and a few hidden surprises).
I lost count of the many 1ups I keep finding =D
They added more because it's a newer game I believe. I could never go back
to the original game anymore. I've been spoiled.
AceoHearts
>> and a working SP at EB, you get
>> a DS for 99 bucks.
>
> If you have it, trade it.
>
> I had a nice deal actually. I won a $50 gift card at work a few months
> ago,
> so I used it as a nice discount for my Nintendo DS. So, instead of paying
> $150 for it, I paid $100 bucks.
I started saving Reward Zone certificates from Best Buy a few months before
the DS came out. So on launch day I think I had $65 worth of certificates,
so that dropped the cost for me.
AceoHearts
sailo...@naturecoast.net
Color games, too?
What a rip-off. I think I'll get a Game Boy Advance instead.
Mark
Glenn Shaw
> So, why didn't they make the DS play original Game Boy and Game Boy
> Color games, too?
Cost. The DS has two processors, one for DS games and one for GBA games.
But the GBC-compatible GBA *also* has two processors: one for GBA games,
and another for Game Boy Color and earlier games.
Thus, for the DS to be backward-compatible with GBC games (and, by
extension, the entire Game Boy library), it would have to have *three*
processors -- one for DS games, one for GBA games, and one for GBC and
earlier games. Putting three processors in the DS would have raised
production costs so high that Nintendo wouldn't have been able to offer the
DS at the planned target MSRP of $149.99.
I somehow doubt that Nintendo even considered software emulation --
emulating a GBC in software would have probably caused more problems than
it would have solved.
--
Glenn Shaw • Indianapolis, IN USA
Lorfarius
news:Xns9626884EF56F6...@216.196.97.136...
Plus give it time I wouldnt be surprised if we end up with a GB emulator for
the DS eventually. Could be made through a plug through GBA cartridge with a
built in emulator. Probably sell a ton.
drocket
<tog...@nospamcomnet.cast> wrote:
>Cost. The DS has two processors, one for DS games and one for GBA games.
>But the GBC-compatible GBA *also* has two processors: one for GBA games,
>and another for Game Boy Color and earlier games.
>
>Thus, for the DS to be backward-compatible with GBC games (and, by
>extension, the entire Game Boy library), it would have to have *three*
>processors -- one for DS games, one for GBA games, and one for GBC and
>earlier games. Putting three processors in the DS would have raised
>production costs so high that Nintendo wouldn't have been able to offer the
>DS at the planned target MSRP of $149.99.
>
>I somehow doubt that Nintendo even considered software emulation --
>emulating a GBC in software would have probably caused more problems than
>it would have solved.
Actually, I would guess the reason wasn't cost, but actually time.
The GameBoy Color CPU is so ancient at this point, how much would it
actually cost? 50 cents? Adding a third CPU WOULD massively increase
the complexity of debugging and testing the DS, though, and quite
possibly would have caused them to miss their shipping schedule.
And yea, emulation probably wouldn't be a viable choice. Emulators
for GBCs for the PC have been around forever, and they're still not
100% compatible. I doubt Nintendo would be willing to put out
something like that when they'd have to list a dozen games that don't
work, games that have bugs at specific locations, games that you have
to use a workaround at a specific point in the game, etc.
Jacob Oost
> If you actually own a Nintendo, you have already arrived.
>
> I love Nintendo's Seal of Quality. Very original.
>
> If Microsoft were to create their own Seal of Quality award, they wouldn't
> qualify for their own award since their products often crash (endless
> service packs prove it).
>
Ah, the Nintendo Seal of Quality, a lofty honor bestowed only on those
products whose developers can pony up the licensing fees....it makes my
eyes go misty (or is that the cataracts?). Wayne's World for the SNES
had the seal of quality, so that completely negates the concept that the
seal of quality means anything other than "officially licensed."
Wouldn't it be great if the X-Box 2 crashed during its big unveiling at
E3? How many public crashes has Microsoft had over the years? Two or
three big ones?
>>Their craptacular customer service
>>and repair/replacement deals didn't
>>hurt them much in the PS2 area.
>
>
> Maybe their target audience doesn't know any better?
>
That's part of the reason their user base is so huge, the public
(including non-gamers) sees the PS2 as the "goto" system for anybody who
wants to get into games, and X-Box and Gamecube just happen to be other
options that exist. I remember hearing about a lot of adults curious
about games who got a PS2 because it seemed like the standard system for
everybody. I think Iwata is really smart in trying to capture
non-gamers with Revolution, however he plans to do it. Already the
gaming market has focused itself like a laser on the 15-25 crowd, which
Nintendo has foregone in favor of marketing to families. This strategy
works for Pixar thanks to huge marketing, but it hasn't gotten Nintendo
dominant marketshare because Nintendo doesn't know how to evangelize
beyond their existing fanbase. They have the cash to do an
unprecedented advertising sweep, not just in the gaming press but in
mainstream tv shows. So why are they so timid when they could be so
aggressive? I really hope Nintendo looks at what makes companies like
Pixar succeed when they are marketing to the same broad audience, and
applies some of that mojo to the Revolution's launch.
> Defective units from Sony do not surprise me anymore. What surprises me is
> the loyalty of their consumer base. They will pledge allegiance to Sony, the
> one and only.
>
Sony hardware sells have been down across the board for the past few
years. That includes the PS2, but they are especially hurting with DVD
players and recorders, cameras, etc. Partly because competitors offer
better products, but also because stores don't recommend Sony. When I
worked at Best Buy, only one or two people who worked there knew squat,
but one thing everybody knew is "Sony stuff breaks, don't recommend it."
A typical customer (who doesn't know much, to put it nicely) sees ten
DVD players (or tvs, or receivers) that look identical and cost the
same, they'll go with whatever the store guy recommends, almost every
time. I saw it at the store I worked at and I've seen it elsewhere when
I've gone in shopping myself. Salespeople have always steered me away
from Sony stuff and towards Yamaha, Toshiba, Panasonic, Samsung,
Philips, etc. They know customers will just bring their broken crap to
the store instead of the company, and they know it might be them that
processes busted returned items (I know I did).
> Yeh, well that guy was an obvious Sony Lemming. He will never learn his ($$$
> expensive $$$) lesson. If you give him attention, he wins. If you ignore
> him, he lost.
I listened to him talk to his buddy for a while. He mentioned he loved
his Gamecube, his GBA, etc, but couldn't stop praising the PSP and
dropping a steamer on the DS. I think he was just taken with the big
screen and graphics (although I happen to think that kind of graphics
power is overkill with a screen resolution of only 480x276).
I would like to have a reason to get the DS, but as I said I'm worried
the support won't be there if and when the new Game Boy comes out (which
could be next year for all I know), and I also don't see any games that
grab me by the nards when I look at upcoming releases. Where are
Nintendo's first-party developer teams and what do they have to show for
it? A dog simulation and a Mario Kart game...that comes out in six months?
>>You think I was going to buy something
>>from that guy? That EB lost a customer
>>that day.
>
>
> Very good. You did the right thing.
>
Today I went back to that EB and bought a new copy of Donkey Kong vs.
Mario after waiting in vain for a cheap used copy to show up. :-)
> They added more because it's a newer game I believe. I could never go back
> to the original game anymore. I've been spoiled.
Well, I find the original SM64 to be kind of dated-looking, I'm sad to
say. I think it's the graphics, all those low-res textures, they aren't
helping.
Jacob Oost
Because that would have meant either including a GBC emulator in the
BIOS or including the Z80 chip (also I understand GBC carts don't fit in
the slot, so that would have meant further changes to the hardware).
They cut costs to bring the price down, a long-standing Nintendo policy.
It's what helps them bring hardware out at a lower price than the
competition.
They reasoned, quite rightly IMO, that people with GBC games will still
hold onto their GBCs, their Super Game Boys, or their Game Boy Players
(a Gamecube peripheral to play GBA, GB, and GBC games on your tv), and
that the rest of us want to pay a lower price for a new system that
plays GBA games. I think the GBA library is superior to the original
Gameboy's anyway.
Jacob Oost
> Plus give it time I wouldnt be surprised if we end up with a GB emulator for
> the DS eventually. Could be made through a plug through GBA cartridge with a
> built in emulator. Probably sell a ton.
People are already working on software emulation (the DS hardware is
*more* than capable of emulating the GBC).
Aaron J. Bossig
news:JYG1e.35073$cC6....@fe2.columbus.rr.com:
> fish wrote:
>> If you actually own a Nintendo, you have already arrived.
>>
>> I love Nintendo's Seal of Quality. Very original.
>>
>> If Microsoft were to create their own Seal of Quality award, they
>> wouldn't qualify for their own award since their products often crash
>> (endless service packs prove it).
>>
>
> Ah, the Nintendo Seal of Quality, a lofty honor bestowed only on those
> products whose developers can pony up the licensing fees....it makes
> my eyes go misty (or is that the cataracts?). Wayne's World for the
> SNES had the seal of quality, so that completely negates the concept
> that the seal of quality means anything other than "officially
> licensed."
Well, that, plus it means that it meets the basic requirements for
compatibility and safety. While that's not always a big concern, I
have been burned on a few non-licensed products, so I do respect what
the seal stands for.
However, it is **NOT** a guarantee that a game won't suck.
--
Aaron "Rocket Ranger got the seal too" Bossig