FFVII vs. Earthbound 64 (Mother III)
Crypt...@geocities.com
Alright I think we've all heard enough of "FFVII vs. Zelda64" and
everyone agrees that FFVII can't be compared to Zelda64, because
the Games are too different. FFVII is a "True" RPG, while Zelda64
is an "Action Adventure" RPG. Why hasn't anybody seen where the REAL
competition will be, which is between FFVII and MIII (Mother III,
Earthbound 64, whatever), and possibly DQ8 (is it 8?). Personally
I think MIII will blow FFVII out of the water mainly due to the 64DD's
writeability. RPG's are meant to approximate "real life" situations
or at lesat be realistic in their play. MIII will use the Writeability
to record landscape changes (burnt houses STAY burnt) and every person
you meet will say something different when you talk to him/her a second
time; no more Receiving information, looking for what he said, then returning
only to have him say the same thing, as if you never talked to him in the
first place. The graphics look Every bit as good if not better than FFVII's,
and apparently the music on FFVII is in Midi, so you can't predict how much
MIII's Music will suck for lack of Red Book Audio. Am I forgetting anything?
- Cryptic Bug
Net-Tamer V 1.08 - Test Drive
Lord of Shadow
Plot, perhaps? And this vaunted writability is all it's cracked up to
be. So what if it's writeable, they can't write EVERYTHING onto the
disc, because of size limitations. Did FF3, which was writable, or
Earthbound, which was writable, have intelligent people to talk to? As I
recall, Earthbound's dialouge was AWFUL, and whether it repeats or not,
it'll still be the same mediocre, childish story-line. The graphics will
most certainly NOT be as good in the FMV, though they may hold their own
during the non-cinematic parts of the game.
As for plot, so as to avoid a major flame war, let me simply say that
even if FF7 was on the NES and Earthbound 2 was available on a N128 or
some outlandishly good system, I would still play FF over it!
--
"Nothing beats the sound of hundreds of voices screaming in unison." - Kefka
"As long as there is evil in the hearts of men, as long as there exists
pride, hatred, greed, as long as men possess their humanity, I shall be
Zeromus! I shall live again!" - Zeromus, FF3 Novella
"I'll show you the power...of anger!" - Edge, FF2
dont know
okay people
final fantasy 7 versus mother 3 or earthbound 64
as most people should recall earthbound stink
i mean really stink (the smell)
i haven't play earthbound
so i can't compare it
but next time
when you want to compare two games
make sure both of those games is already out
now how about final fantasy 7 versus dragon force
well someone got to mention saturn's game
one way or the other
by the way dragon force should use to compare with suikoden
not ff7
zemeron
Lord of Shadow wrote:
>
> Plot, perhaps? And this vaunted writability is all it's cracked up to
> be. So what if it's writeable, they can't write EVERYTHING onto the
> disc, because of size limitations. Did FF3, which was writable, or
> Earthbound, which was writable, have intelligent people to talk to?
You moron! First of all Final Fantsy 3(a great game) writeablity(about
128 k) can't compare to Earthbound 64(mother 3). Earthbound 64 can have
as much as 32 MEGABYTES of rewriteable space(You probely could record
everything.). Also it is one of the release games for the 64DD and will
definatly you some creative writing capabilities(Nintendo has been
mentioning the 64DD's writeablity every chance it gets). It will also be
great because the programmers have alot more space to program in a good
plot.
Lastly I want to say that Final fantasy 7 is a great game and I can't
wait for it come out in America.
Erin Ottley
Crypt...@geocities.com wrote:
(snip!)
: The graphics look Every bit as good if not better than FFVII's,
: - Cryptic Bug
Is there some place that has screen shots of MIII, or are you
just quessing?
Grimm
Bad Vader
ad...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Erin Ottley) wrote:
> Grimm
www.gamefan.com
see it and weep
Like STAR WARS? Go to http://idt.net/~ultra19/
Lots of video and music clips.
Updated every day!
Bad Vader
Crypt...@geocities.com wrote:
I think you shouldn't compare Earthbound 64 and ff7. FF7 is a
serious game for serious RPGers, while Earthbound is a fun, humerous
game. On SNES, I played FF3 to death. Then when Earthbound came out,
it gave me a completely different (and more fun) experience.
blan...@ix.netcom.com
<HTML><BODY>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><I></I>
<BR>
<BR>You moron! First of all Final Fantsy 3(a great game) writeablity(about
<BR>128 k) can't compare to Earthbound 64(mother 3). Earthbound 64 can have
<BR>as much as 32 MEGABYTES of rewriteable space(You probely could record
<BR>everything.). Also it is one of the release games for the 64DD and will
<BR>definatly you some creative writing capabilities(Nintendo has been
<BR>mentioning the 64DD's writeablity every chance it gets). It will also be
<BR>great because the programmers have alot more space to program in a good
<BR>plot.
<BR>
<BR>Lastly I want to say that Final fantasy 7 is a great game and I can't
<BR>wait for it come out in America.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>Nintendo, for some idiotic reason, measures all their games in mega bits.
i think it's so they can use the term "megs" and make every one
think they are getting a game that packs alot of space and data.
So that actually isn't that much to write to as you think. Besides,
that shouldn't matter anyways because if you are just saving landscape
data and and conversation info it doesn't use that much space anyways.
<BR>
<BR>-Creath Carter
</BODY>
</HTML>
Murg
>You moron! First of all Final Fantsy 3(a great game) writeablity(about
>128 k) can't compare to Earthbound 64(mother 3). Earthbound 64 can have
>as much as 32 MEGABYTES of rewriteable space(You probely could record
>everything.). Also it is one of the release games for the 64DD and will
>definatly you some creative writing capabilities(Nintendo has been
>mentioning the 64DD's writeablity every chance it gets). It will also be
>great because the programmers have alot more space to program in a good
>plot.
Calling someone a moron because you have a different opinion on
something is stupid, pathetic, moronic, fucked-up, idiotic, shitty and
the WRONG kind of Netiquette.:)
I say you apologize to he who had the other opinion and I say you
apologize now.
>Lastly I want to say that Final fantasy 7 is a great game and I can't
>wait for it come out in America.
>
LORD MURG
--
Yeah, yeah, I'm back.
AND I'M NOT TAKING ANY SHIT FROM NEWBIES!!!
Anyone who dares challenge me shall depart from this Mortal Realm forever.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
And that's all I have to say on the Subject.
Hidetaka Mizohata
dont know <bra...@japan-mail.com> wrote:
> as most people should recall earthbound stink
> i mean really stink (the smell)
> i haven't play earthbound
> so i can't compare it
This guy/gal doesn't even know what s/he is talking about. Don't comment on
something you haven't even played yet.
HeDay
Lord of Shadow
: >You moron! First of all Final Fantsy 3(a great game) writeablity(about
: >128 k) can't compare to Earthbound 64(mother 3). Earthbound 64 can have
: >as much as 32 MEGABYTES of rewriteable space(You probely could record
: >everything.). Also it is one of the release games for the 64DD and will
: >definatly you some creative writing capabilities(Nintendo has been
: >mentioning the 64DD's writeablity every chance it gets). It will also be
: >great because the programmers have alot more space to program in a good
: >plot.
Really? And the 64DD has SOOO much more space than a CD, we know that
they'll REALLY knock themselves out, right? You know what's funny...all
those computer RPGs that have all that "vaunted" writability you brag
of. How many of those compare to FF3? All of them had the ability to
record VAST ammounts of data, far more than your phenomenal 32 megabits,
or 8 megabytes.
But let's furth explore this matter, shall we. With the faster 3D
capabilities of the N64, we can be sure this will not be an overhead
game, but will more likely be done in a Mario 64 type of view. A view
that, I for one, don't really enjoy playing RPGs in. Secondly, since
you'll have to buy a 64DD, the game will be pricier. Lastly, since
Earthbound did SOOO well in the US (what, did it sell like 3 copies?) we
can be sure that those who make Mother 3 will RUSH to translate this
pricier, less popular than Zelda64 RPG? Since Zelda will have a huge
share of the RPG playing American market, Mother will be delayed until
Zelda64 has run its course. Then you'll get another old, outmoded,
pathetic, RPG, just like Mother2, a NES game ported onto the SNES! Maybe
the NEW Mother3 will have more than 16 colors.
None1a
Crypt...@geocities.com wrote:
>
> Alright I think we've all heard enough of "FFVII vs. Zelda64" and
> everyone agrees that FFVII can't be compared to Zelda64, because
> the Games are too different. FFVII is a "True" RPG, while Zelda64
> is an "Action Adventure" RPG. Why hasn't anybody seen where the REAL
> competition will be, which is between FFVII and MIII (Mother III,
> Earthbound 64, whatever), and possibly DQ8 (is it 8?). Personally
> I think MIII will blow FFVII out of the water mainly due to the 64DD's
> writeability. RPG's are meant to approximate "real life" situations
> or at lesat be realistic in their play. MIII will use the Writeability
> to record landscape changes (burnt houses STAY burnt) and every person
> you meet will say something different when you talk to him/her a second
> time; no more Receiving information, looking for what he said, then returning
> only to have him say the same thing, as if you never talked to him in the
> first place. The graphics look Every bit as good if not better than FFVII's,
> and apparently the music on FFVII is in Midi, so you can't predict how much
> MIII's Music will suck for lack of Red Book Audio. Am I forgetting anything?
>
>
> Net-Tamer V 1.08 - Test Drive
than that of a cd so the game will have to tack most of that and there
won't be much room to save all that stuff and the cost of the 64DD'
carts is as much as that of a ROM Cart so the game will still cost 60 to
80 bucks if is only on one cart.
Giles
Crypt...@geocities.com wrote in article <5far9b$hru$6...@news.bctel.net>...
> competition will be, which is between FFVII and MIII (Mother III,
> Earthbound 64, whatever), and possibly DQ8 (is it 8?). Personally
> I think MIII will blow FFVII out of the water mainly due to the 64DD's
<snip>
> first place. The graphics look Every bit as good if not better than
FFVII's,
> and apparently the music on FFVII is in Midi, so you can't predict how
much
> MIII's Music will suck for lack of Red Book Audio. Am I forgetting
anything?
Yes you're forgetting how bad the first Earthbound was.
I know it has it's crazed fanboy following but really
the first Earthbound sucked. They hyped it but it still
sucked. I bought it and returned it 3 days or so later.
It was terrible. Call mommy every so often etc...
It'll suck due to storyline, music, plot, but will probably
have great graphics.
Hardset Head
Crypt...@geocities.com wrote:
: Alright I think we've all heard enough of "FFVII vs. Zelda64" and
: everyone agrees that FFVII can't be compared to Zelda64, because
: the Games are too different. FFVII is a "True" RPG, while Zelda64
: is an "Action Adventure" RPG. Why hasn't anybody seen where the REAL
: Earthbound 64, whatever), and possibly DQ8 (is it 8?). Personally
: I think MIII will blow FFVII out of the water mainly due to the 64DD's
: or at lesat be realistic in their play. MIII will use the Writeability
: to record landscape changes (burnt houses STAY burnt) and every person
: you meet will say something different when you talk to him/her a second
: time; no more Receiving information, looking for what he said, then returning
: only to have him say the same thing, as if you never talked to him in the
: and apparently the music on FFVII is in Midi, so you can't predict how much
: MIII's Music will suck for lack of Red Book Audio. Am I forgetting anything?
: - Cryptic Bug
I pretty much agree with this. I was really skeptical about Earthbound
64, but now the more I learn about it and see screenshots etc... I find
myself not being so dissapointed that Square has left Nintendo..the game
looks like it will be quite an interesting achivement.
--
-----------------
psl...@nmia.com
Ryan Ryttie
sha...@netcom.com (Lord of Shadow) whom uses TIN [version 1.2 PL2] wrote
in the thread Re: FFVII vs. Earthbound 64 (Mother III):
! : >You moron! First of all Final Fantsy 3(a great game) writeablity(about
! : >128 k) can't compare to Earthbound 64(mother 3). Earthbound 64 can
have
! : >as much as 32 MEGABYTES of rewriteable space(You probely could record
! : >everything.). Also it is one of the release games for the 64DD and
will
! : >definatly you some creative writing capabilities(Nintendo has been
! : >mentioning the 64DD's writeablity every chance it gets). It will also
be
! : >great because the programmers have alot more space to program in a
good
! : >plot.
!
! Really? And the 64DD has SOOO much more space than a CD, we know that
! they'll REALLY knock themselves out, right? You know what's funny...all
! those computer RPGs that have all that "vaunted" writability you brag
! of. How many of those compare to FF3? All of them had the ability to
! record VAST ammounts of data, far more than your phenomenal 32 megabits,
! or 8 megabytes.
FYI GA's are in every real simulator on the PC...from Sim City to some War
Games...they are not in RPGs yet because they are relatively new and RPG
makers each have their own techniques...well actually Zelda let you sort of
customize difficulty...if you always left one monster all would return
other wise you would have to move a few screens away first...but GAs
actually change the program in a way that can be saved...and imagine if you
could take actions that make the game harder or easier...one of the biggest
problems in RPGs is either too weak monsters or too strong monsters...or
too many monsters or too few...but with GAs all that can be controlled by
the users actions...of course you could always just play Pen and Paper
RPG's where all these factors are controlled by the DM...but programmers
are getting to the point of having RPGs on computers as variable as the pen
and paper versions...if AI ever gets to the point of assembling
descriptions or altering 2 or 3 d images...then computer games might exceed
pen and paper...bet that is a ways off from even being possible much less
hapening
! But let's furth explore this matter, shall we. With the faster 3D
! capabilities of the N64, we can be sure this will not be an overhead
! game, but will more likely be done in a Mario 64 type of view. A view
! that, I for one, don't really enjoy playing RPGs in. Secondly, since
! you'll have to buy a 64DD, the game will be pricier. Lastly, since
! Earthbound did SOOO well in the US (what, did it sell like 3 copies?) we
! can be sure that those who make Mother 3 will RUSH to translate this
! pricier, less popular than Zelda64 RPG? Since Zelda will have a huge
! share of the RPG playing American market, Mother will be delayed until
! Zelda64 has run its course. Then you'll get another old, outmoded,
! pathetic, RPG, just like Mother2, a NES game ported onto the SNES! Maybe
! the NEW Mother3 will have more than 16 colors.
! --
! "Nothing beats the sound of hundreds of voices screaming in unison." -
Kefka
!
! "As long as there is evil in the hearts of men, as long as there exists
! pride, hatred, greed, as long as men possess their humanity, I shall be
! Zeromus! I shall live again!" - Zeromus, FF3 Novella
!
! "I'll show you the power...of anger!" - Edge, FF2
---
Delete.Key of The Green Ajah of AGFF
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Crypt...@geocities.com
On 1997-03-02 ad...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca(ErinOttley) said:
>Newsgroups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.
>video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation
>X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
>Crypt...@geocities.com wrote:
>(snip!)
>: The graphics look Every bit as good if not better than FFVII's,
>: - Cryptic Bug
>Is there some place that has screen shots of MIII, or are you
>just quessing?
>Grimm
there's a big section of Shoshinkai announcements and screenshots. One
has a bunch of (presumably animated) characters sitting in a Bar or Tavern of
some sort. The second I saw had a Character sitting in a weird bowl-ish
thing in fron of three huge Piggy Creatures.
Crypt...@geocities.com
On 1997-03-02 blan...@ix.netcom.com said:
<snipped>
>Nintendo, for some idiotic reason, measures all their games in
>mega bits. i think it's so they can use the term
>"megs" and make every one think they are getting a game
>that packs alot of space and data. So that actually isn't
>that much to write to as you think. Besides, that shouldn't
>matter anyways because if you are just saving landscape data and
>and conversation info it doesn't use that much space anyways.
>-Creath Carter
He DID say 32Megs, which is what it really is, so I don't see what
Bits/Bytes has to do with your argument, which needs all the help it can get.
32Megs is Tons, when you consider what N64's compression gives you.
Nintendo says that it gets 45:1 graphics compression (It's all Polygons and
their paths, though I can't prove it's accuracy) and even if you cut that
down to 10:1, that's 320Megs writeable space. Their sound compression is
13:1 and their Code (Worst) is 1.6:1. You don't seem to realize how much
space 64Megs actually is with compression. Nobody (not the person!) does.
Anyway, it sure beats 0 Megs with compression writeable space on PSX and SS.
Does PSX or SS use any compression? You'd think it'd be unnecesary with
650 Megs to burn.
Crypt...@geocities.com
>! : >You moron! First of all Final Fantsy 3(a great game)
>writeablity(about ! : >128 k) can't compare to Earthbound 64(mother
>3). Earthbound 64 can have
>! : >as much as 32 MEGABYTES of rewriteable space(You probely could
>record ! : >everything.). Also it is one of the release games for
>the 64DD and will
>! : >definatly you some creative writing capabilities(Nintendo has
>been ! : >mentioning the 64DD's writeablity every chance it gets).
>It will also be
>! : >great because the programmers have alot more space to program
>in a good
>! : >plot.
>!
>! Really? And the 64DD has SOOO much more space than a CD, we know that
>! they'll REALLY knock themselves out, right? You know what's funny...
>! all those computer RPGs that have all that "vaunted" writeability
>! you brag of. How many of those compare to FF3? All of them had the
>! ability to record VAST ammounts of data, far more than your
>! phenomenal 32 megabits, or 8 megabytes.
Are you that simple? First of all 32 megabits = 4 megabytes, and second,
the DD has 32 MegaBYTES (256 Mbits, if you can't figure it out) writeable
space NOT 32megaBITS. Granted All of them had the abilty to store vast
amounts of information, but did they? I seriously doubt they used more
than FF3, and MIII will.
Crypt...@geocities.com
On 1997-03-02 jr...@worldnet.att.net said:
>Yes you are forgetting something the 64DD's cart size is a lot
>smaller than that of a cd so the game will have to tack most of
>that and there won't be much room to save all that stuff and the
>cost of the 64DD' carts is as much as that of a ROM Cart so the
>game will still cost 60 to 80 bucks if is only on one cart.
what Kind of compression Nintendo gets? 13:1 sound and 45:1 graphics
(because of the polygon format.) even if this were exaggerated, it wouldn't
be by much, and even cutting it in half to 22.5:1 or even 20:1 wil give you a
game every bit as big as a CD game. The games can and will be bigger than
FFVII, because of this compression, and Nintendo Won't use those Massive
backgrounds and such. Besides which, The features i mentioned in MII
WILL be in the game, and as long as they work, why should you care how
much space it's actually using? (You can bet it's a lot more than a
1meg save pak though!) The 64DD "carts" (disks, actually) cost $7-9US
while ROM carts cost $33 US. Nintendo has already said this savings will
be passed on.
Ben9771
where the hell did you hear that the cost of a 64DD disk will cost the
same amount as a cart????? Most magazines state that it will be around
$50-60!!!! Besides, most of the data in the 3 CDs in FF7 is for its
pre-rendered backgrounds. If the N64 can render the backgrounds real-time
(look at the Mother 3 shots at gamefan.com, though look pretty damn good)
then they can save TONS of memory.
S A I Y A N
Final Fantasy VII will kick Mother III to planet pluto when it is
release in September the 7.
--
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Best Viewed With Netscape MailTM Version 3.0 OR ABOVE
Msg:Final Fantasy VII (Have you Beat The Games???)
Atomic Skull
>and apparently the music on FFVII is in Midi, so you can't predict how much
>MIII's Music will suck for lack of Red Book Audio. Am I forgetting anything?
turn out to be generated by it's synth engine (Suikoden comes to mind).
Atomic Skull
>> Net-Tamer V 1.08 - Test Drive
>than that of a cd so the game will have to tack most of that and there
>won't be much room to save all that stuff and the cost of the 64DD'
>carts is as much as that of a ROM Cart so the game will still cost 60 to
>80 bucks if is only on one cart.
eventually decay, and I'm certain that Nintendo won't want you to make a backup
of it.
Atomic Skull
>I think MIII will blow FFVII out of the water mainly due to the 64DD's
>writeability. RPG's are meant to approximate "real life" situations
generated a magnetic field or you can kiss it goodby. And the data will
eventually decay over time anyway.
Read/write DVD (4 gigs of read/write optical storage) is the future of
console storage, not CD-Rom, not unreliable magnetic disks.
ManaByte
I don't know if you've heard or not, but FF7 is EXTREMELY linear. If you
don't know what that means: well to put it simply, the plot doesn't have
any major twists and there aren't really any changes that can happen the
second time through.
--
-ManaByte
Lord of Shadow <sha...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<shadow0E...@netcom.com>...
> Plot, perhaps? And this vaunted writability is all it's cracked up to
> be. So what if it's writeable, they can't write EVERYTHING onto the
> disc, because of size limitations. Did FF3, which was writable, or
> Earthbound, which was writable, have intelligent people to talk to? As I
> recall, Earthbound's dialouge was AWFUL, and whether it repeats or not,
> it'll still be the same mediocre, childish story-line. The graphics will
> most certainly NOT be as good in the FMV, though they may hold their own
> during the non-cinematic parts of the game.
>
> As for plot, so as to avoid a major flame war, let me simply say that
> even if FF7 was on the NES and Earthbound 2 was available on a N128 or
> some outlandishly good system, I would still play FF over it!
> --
> "Nothing beats the sound of hundreds of voices screaming in unison." -
Kefka
>
> "As long as there is evil in the hearts of men, as long as there exists
> pride, hatred, greed, as long as men possess their humanity, I shall be
> Zeromus! I shall live again!" - Zeromus, FF3 Novella
>
Sharon Mock
> Many games on the PSX have soundtracks that seem to be redbook at
first, but
> turn out to be generated by it's synth engine (Suikoden comes to mind).
Suikoden's music is PCM streams -- if you pop the Playstation's lid, the
music stops after a couple of seconds. True system-generated music (e.g.
Persona) will continue to play whether or not the lid is up.
-- Sharon
Sharon Mock
In article <01bc27f8$1e22c8a0$7ef0...@jeremy.ns.net>, "ManaByte"
<jc...@ns.net> wrote:
> I don't know if you've heard or not, but FF7 is EXTREMELY linear. If you
> don't know what that means: well to put it simply, the plot doesn't have
> any major twists and there aren't really any changes that can happen the
> second time through.
> --
> -ManaByte
Linearity has NOTHING to do with the number of twists in the plot, only
the number of alternate paths you can take through the story. You can
have a story that's straightforward and non-linear, or convoluted and
completely linear.
Not having completed FFVII, and not being able to read Japanese, I can't
say where the storyline of FFVII lies. However, there were enough
complaints about the non-linear second half of FF3 that it shouldn't be
surprising that Square provided a more linear storyline for FFVII.
-- Sharon
The Evil Rabbi
(snipperoo)
>>
>> Net-Tamer V 1.08 - Test Drive
>Yes you are forgetting something the 64DD's cart size is a lot smaller
>than that of a cd so the game will have to tack most of that and there
>won't be much room to save all that stuff and the cost of the 64DD'
>carts is as much as that of a ROM Cart so the game will still cost 60
to
>80 bucks if is only on one cart.
First of all, there's no urgent need to convey your message in only
one convoluted sentence secondly the 64DD doesn't use carts it uses
DISKS hence the name DD for Disk Drive not CD for Cart Drive and
thirdly while the DISKS are smaller in mem than CD's they're still a
fair amount and larger than carts plus they won't waste any space for
cheesy cinemas you don't really think FF7 is 3 CDs worth of gameplay do
you they have frivolous uses of space and it won't take much room to
save all that stuff and the 64DD disks are about half the price of
carts so there *PPPPHHHHBBTTTT*.
Thank you for listening. :)
-me
Ryan Ryttie
Arg...@ns.net (Atomic Skull) whom uses WinVN 0.99.8 (beta 2) wrote in the
thread Re: FFVII vs. Earthbound 64 (Mother III):
! >> Net-Tamer V 1.08 - Test Drive
! >Yes you are forgetting something the 64DD's cart size is a lot smaller
! >than that of a cd so the game will have to tack most of that and there
! >won't be much room to save all that stuff and the cost of the 64DD'
! >carts is as much as that of a ROM Cart so the game will still cost 60 to
! >80 bucks if is only on one cart.
!
! People are also forgetting that magnetic media is unreliable... It
WILL
! eventually decay, and I'm certain that Nintendo won't want you to make a
backup
! of it.
ha ha and like the PSX can read scrached or broken disks...well at least
magnetic media is good for up to 20 years...cds can become trashed in hours
if you're careless...in a year or two most cds get scrached by 10 or 20
years there won't be a 'used' original working copy of FF7...and by then N
won't care if you have a copy of a n64 game or not because they will either
be out of buisiness or they will be too busy selling HN (holograpic
Nintendo)
and they are adamantly opossed to backups...
Dude
On 3 Mar 1997, Atomic Skull wrote:
> >> Net-Tamer V 1.08 - Test Drive
> >Yes you are forgetting something the 64DD's cart size is a lot smaller
> >than that of a cd so the game will have to tack most of that and there
> >won't be much room to save all that stuff and the cost of the 64DD'
> >carts is as much as that of a ROM Cart so the game will still cost 60 to
> >80 bucks if is only on one cart.
>
>
> People are also forgetting that magnetic media is unreliable... It WILL
> eventually decay, and I'm certain that Nintendo won't want you to make
> a backup of it.
>
>
>
While a magnetic medium used for storage may decay at a faster rate and
can be affected by strong magnetic fields, all mediums for storage decay.
Doesn't matter if it's a cartridge or CD rom or magnetic disc, all of
them will eventually decay. So what's your point in telling us what most
already knew?
Dude
On 3 Mar 1997, Atomic Skull wrote:
> >I think MIII will blow FFVII out of the water mainly due to the 64DD's
> >writeability. RPG's are meant to approximate "real life" situations
>
>
>
> Better not dit the disk too close to your TV, or any other device that
> generated a magnetic field or you can kiss it goodby. And the data will
> eventually decay over time anyway.
>
>
I've left my floppy discs on top of my TV for days. I have them laying in
front of my speakers for my portable stereo for a couple of months now.
They still work fine. The magnetic field generated by most TV's most
speakers and refrigerator magnets is too weak to do damage to disc unless
you leave them there for an extended period of time. Even then, the discs
hold up pretty well. As I've said I have a stack of floppy disc (about
15) in front of my portable stereo speakers, they are right next to the
speaker, and nothing has happened to them in 3 months.
> Read/write DVD (4 gigs of read/write optical storage) is the future of
> console storage, not CD-Rom, not unreliable magnetic disks.
>
>
ROFL, read/write DVD's will not appear for years to come. It is very
questionable if it would be low cost enough to incorporate a DVD drive in
the next generation of consoles, much less readable/writable DVD's. Sure
if you want to have a $500+ system then it would work, but how many
people bought $500+ systems? 3DO anyone? How about a Neo Geo Gold system?
Time has proven that $200-$250 is the magic limit to what the mass public
will pay for a console. Go above it and people will not buy your system.
Michael LaLena
ManaByte wrote:
>
> I don't know if you've heard or not, but FF7 is EXTREMELY linear. If you
> don't know what that means: well to put it simply, the plot doesn't have
> any major twists and there aren't really any changes that can happen the
> second time through.
This is not what linear means.
Take Kings Field II. You must find the 4 magics
and the 3 parts of the rod. You can find these 7 things in
any order. Thus, the game is not linear. I.E. straight
line plot.
But, if you play the game many times (why, this is an issue
I don't know) you will not see anything new if you do things
in a different order.
By simply having 2 keys (found in different ways) open the same door,
you can make the game have different plots. But if someone doesn't
play the game twice, what is the point of this. That person will
be missing out on part of the game.
Linear games are annoying because at any one time, there is
only 1 task that you are allowed to accomplish. That, and the
programmers usually make this task on the opposite side of the
map. I do not like to start the "OK, where haven't I been"
routine, until I am almost done the game.
I do not like you definition of linear. I do not like any
RPG that has to be played more than once to get the full
effect. What is the difference between a game that you
play twice, and find only 50% of the plot each time you play,
compared with a game that takes twice as long to solve, but
need only be played once.
You do not need plot twists the second time through to make
a game non-linear.
--
Mike LaLena
Email: mailto:mla...@geocities.com
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/4456/
Dude
On 3 Mar 1997, Atomic Skull wrote:
> >and apparently the music on FFVII is in Midi, so you can't predict how much
> >MIII's Music will suck for lack of Red Book Audio. Am I forgetting anything?
>
>
> Many games on the PSX have soundtracks that seem to be redbook at first, but
> turn out to be generated by it's synth engine (Suikoden comes to mind).
>
>
Was I the only one that felt with a small graphical degradation changing
the battle screen to a static one instead of 3d and cutting the ending
theme that Suikoden could have been done on the SNES? While it was a
solid entry as an RPG, especially in the US where there aren't a whole
lot of RPG's, it just didn't impress me as much as each consecutive Final
Fantasy has.
Luke Drelick
> Was I the only one that felt with a small graphical degradation changing
> the battle screen to a static one instead of 3d and cutting the ending
> theme that Suikoden could have been done on the SNES? While it was a
> solid entry as an RPG, especially in the US where there aren't a whole
> lot of RPG's, it just didn't impress me as much as each consecutive Final
> Fantasy has.
WTF you talking about? Suikoden KIX ASS! Yeah, i'm sure all 108 chars
can fit on even the n64 :) btw, the bulky drive is shaping up to be
another 32x :D
--
_
/\/ /=___/\__/\
< /V
\/-\/-=\_____/^_/
| ___ |^ \_ Butz Klauzer aka Luke Drelick
| | | |) // Duky Inc.-A Gateway to Imagination
| |_| -__/ http://www.chocobo.org/~butz
| \ IRC Nick-[BUTZ] on #jMZX, #emu
| _=_=_ \
\_______/XXXX/ -=\
/XXXXXXXXXXX/\XXXXX\
|XXXXXXXXXX/ /XXXXX-=\
-=-=-=-=-=- / /XXXXXXX\
| |/-\/\XXXXXXXX-=\
_| |\-/ \XXXXXXXXXX-=\
< | | -=-=-=-=-=-=/
-|=-=-=-=-|
*-=BUTZ KLAUZER=-*
Erik Landerholm
the compression ratios he gives aren't not correct at all. Miyamoto has
been quoted as saying Mario 64 is compressed in total about 2:1, this is
adding up the compression of everything. While polygons maybe able to be
compressed easily the N64 uses Jpeg for the textures and while jpeg is
one of the best free compression techniques it is NOWHERE near 45:1. But
in defense these same compression ratios will still be useable by the
64dd because the N64's cpu is fast enough to decode them w/o sacrificing
game play.
compression ratios of anything more the 4:1 are just about impossible.
8:1 verges on the unbelievable...and anymore is out in out crap.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.ece.orst.edu/~landerer (My homepage)
http://www.ece.orst.edu/~landerer/n64.html (My N64 Links Page)
http://www.ece.orst.edu/~landerer/samara.html (Samara's Shrine)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, Sammael wrote:
>
> >He DID say 32Megs, which is what it really is, so I don't see what
> >Bits/Bytes has to do with your argument, which needs all the help it can get.
> >32Megs is Tons, when you consider what N64's compression gives you.
> >Nintendo says that it gets 45:1 graphics compression (It's all Polygons and
> >their paths, though I can't prove it's accuracy) and even if you cut that
> >down to 10:1, that's 320Megs writeable space. Their sound compression is
> >13:1 and their Code (Worst) is 1.6:1. You don't seem to realize how much
> >space 64Megs actually is with compression. Nobody (not the person!) does.
> >Anyway, it sure beats 0 Megs with compression writeable space on PSX and SS.
> >Does PSX or SS use any compression? You'd think it'd be unnecesary with
> >650 Megs to burn.
>
> The compression you're talking about is on cartridge games not on 64DD
> games!
>
> Sammael
>
>
>
>
blan...@ix.netcom.com
FIFA wrote:
yeah but that's 1 year for the best RPG to come out and 2 years for
FF7 to
come out. Cd-roms just suck the big one for RPG's.
Um, actually, CD- roms are perfect for RPG's. I don't want to be rude
but you sound like a disgruntled N64 player that just wants Square to
come back. CD-rom holds about five to six times as much as a cart, and
wouldn't you say that a longer RPG is a better one? As for the little
mem cards, those are actually helpful, if you ever wanted to go over to
a friends house and show him your game, you wouldn't have to take your
whole cart with you just a little card that fits in your wallet. Geez
man, you should be a little more open minded. The N64 is a great
machine for 3d games, it is the fastest and most powerful, but Nintendo
made the mistake of swapping carts for CDs. That is a good choice for
speed and ultimate 3d gaming, but they lack the storage space, which is
exactly why Square doesn't feel so good about making games for them.
They wouldn't be nearly as long if they used those tiny carts. I'm sure
Mother 3 will be great, but you don't have to attack Square because they
make some great games too, FF just has a bigger reputation.
-Creath Carter
ANDREY
XDele...@worldnet.att.netXseesigorreplytofordetailsX (Ryan Ryttie) wrote:
>Arg...@ns.net (Atomic Skull) whom uses WinVN 0.99.8 (beta 2) wrote in the
>thread Re: FFVII vs. Earthbound 64 (Mother III):
>! >> Net-Tamer V 1.08 - Test Drive
>! >Yes you are forgetting something the 64DD's cart size is a lot smaller
>! >than that of a cd so the game will have to tack most of that and there
>! >won't be much room to save all that stuff and the cost of the 64DD'
>! >carts is as much as that of a ROM Cart so the game will still cost 60 to
>! >80 bucks if is only on one cart.
>!
>! People are also forgetting that magnetic media is unreliable... It
>WILL
>! eventually decay, and I'm certain that Nintendo won't want you to make a
>backup
>! of it.
>ha ha and like the PSX can read scrached or broken disks...well at least
>magnetic media is good for up to 20 years...cds can become trashed in hours
>if you're careless...in a year or two most cds get scrached by 10 or 20
>years there won't be a 'used' original working copy of FF7...and by then N
>won't care if you have a copy of a n64 game or not because they will either
>be out of buisiness or they will be too busy selling HN (holograpic
>Nintendo)
>
>and they are adamantly opossed to backups...
Please tell me how careless do you have to get to fuck up a CD permanently?
You either have to be a complete moron or a five year old kid.
Either one would do just as well on your precious carts btw.
Atomic Skull
>what Kind of compression Nintendo gets? 13:1 sound and 45:1 graphics
>(because of the polygon format.) even if this were exaggerated, it wouldn't
They're apples and oranges.
Atomic Skull
>!
>! People are also forgetting that magnetic media is unreliable... It
>WILL
>! eventually decay, and I'm certain that Nintendo won't want you to make a
>backup
>! of it.
>
>ha ha and like the PSX can read scrached or broken disks...well at least
>magnetic media is good for up to 20 years...cds can become trashed in hours
>if you're careless...in a year or two most cds get scrached by 10 or 20
20 years, you really believe that?? Obviously you've never used a ZIP drive
(which the N64DD is very similar to)
True, Cd's can be damaged, but a magnetic disk is even _easier_ to damage..
Atomic Skull
In article <01bc27f8$1e22c8a0$7ef0...@jeremy.ns.net>, jc...@ns.net says...
>
>I don't know if you've heard or not, but FF7 is EXTREMELY linear. If you
>don't know what that means: well to put it simply, the plot doesn't have
>any major twists and there aren't really any changes that can happen the
>second time through.
>-ManaByte
>
>
Yup, it's linear, just like every Final Fantasy game before it.. What's your
point?
Ryan Ryttie
Arg...@ns.net (Atomic Skull) who uses WinVN 0.99.8 (beta 2) wrote on 4
Mar 1997 02:18:52 GMT in the thread Re: FFVII vs. Earthbound 64 (Mother
III):
! >!
! >! People are also forgetting that magnetic media is unreliable... It
! >WILL
! >! eventually decay, and I'm certain that Nintendo won't want you to make
a
! >backup
! >! of it.
! >
! >ha ha and like the PSX can read scrached or broken disks...well at least
! >magnetic media is good for up to 20 years...cds can become trashed in
hours
! >if you're careless...in a year or two most cds get scrached by 10 or 20
!
! 20 years, you really believe that?? Obviously you've never used a ZIP
drive
well magnetic media should be reformatted every 5 years...but they can last
well past 20 years...the reason VCR tapes only last 5 years is two fold 1
the tape streches and the film is surrounded by other magnetic particles
(other layers) which causes them to have the tendancy to allign with the
poles...being a single layer disks are much more stable
! (which the N64DD is very similar to)
I own one have for over a year now...and 12 disks...and well Magnetic media
is just as easy to destroy as CDs put one too close to a magnet and it is
erased. the other one...a hard drop...a careless user...and it's toast. CDs
build up dust and oil very fast...that means cleaning. cleaning means
scraches. moderate scraching and your game gets worse until you can't play
it. Every single Disk from the CU testing was scrached...some wouldn't even
play without vigorous cleaning. true kids were playing them, but even so
kids used to play with floppy disks a lot too. the other thing is
this...the 64dd disks could be brought into a certified care center and
have the program put back on the same disk. you can't do that with a CD. at
worst case you would have to go through the big N to get it restored...do
you really think Sony is going to announce a program for replacing scrached
disks? or even if they did that it would cost less than $5? N could do the
service center thing for less. they could even do it for free with system
cleaning thats how little it costs.
! True, Cd's can be damaged, but a magnetic disk is even _easier_ to
damage..
but you have to be an idiot to put a disk near anything magnetic...you
don't have to be an idiot to scrach a CD.
although it is true that it is easy to be an idiot...so in that sense you
are correct.
Sammael
zemeron <zem...@geocities.com> wrote:
>Lord of Shadow wrote:
>>
>> Plot, perhaps? And this vaunted writability is all it's cracked up to
>> be. So what if it's writeable, they can't write EVERYTHING onto the
>> disc, because of size limitations. Did FF3, which was writable, or
>> Earthbound, which was writable, have intelligent people to talk to?
>You moron! First of all Final Fantsy 3(a great game) writeablity(about
>128 k) can't compare to Earthbound 64(mother 3). Earthbound 64 can have
>as much as 32 MEGABYTES of rewriteable space(You probely could record
>everything.). Also it is one of the release games for the 64DD and will
>definatly you some creative writing capabilities(Nintendo has been
>mentioning the 64DD's writeablity every chance it gets). It will also be
>great because the programmers have alot more space to program in a good
>plot.
Why can't FF VI compare to Mother 64? Have you tried Mother 64? Do
you have any information about Mother 64, except that it might be
released for the DD64 (remember that's what they said about Zelda too,
but now it looks like Zelda 64 will be out on cartridge)
Sammael
Sammael
Crypt...@geocities.com wrote:
>Alright I think we've all heard enough of "FFVII vs. Zelda64" and
>everyone agrees that FFVII can't be compared to Zelda64, because
>the Games are too different. FFVII is a "True" RPG, while Zelda64
>is an "Action Adventure" RPG. Why hasn't anybody seen where the REAL
>competition will be, which is between FFVII and MIII (Mother III,
>Earthbound 64, whatever), and possibly DQ8 (is it 8?). Personally
>I think MIII will blow FFVII out of the water mainly due to the 64DD's
>writeability. RPG's are meant to approximate "real life" situations
>or at lesat be realistic in their play. MIII will use the Writeability
>to record landscape changes (burnt houses STAY burnt) and every person
>you meet will say something different when you talk to him/her a second
>time; no more Receiving information, looking for what he said, then returning
>only to have him say the same thing, as if you never talked to him in the
>first place. The graphics look Every bit as good if not better than FFVII's,
>and apparently the music on FFVII is in Midi, so you can't predict how much
>MIII's Music will suck for lack of Red Book Audio. Am I forgetting anything?
> - Cryptic Bug
How can you even compare some 3rd rate RPG with one of the best RPGs
of all time? Have you played mother 2, it was released in the US and
it wasn't good at all! In fact it was terrible, Is that really the
best Nintendo has to counter FF VII with? BTW DQ VII will also be out
for the PSX (I guess you're one of the few who don't know yet).
Sammael
Sammael
"ManaByte" <jc...@ns.net> wrote:
>I don't know if you've heard or not, but FF7 is EXTREMELY linear. If you
>don't know what that means: well to put it simply, the plot doesn't have
>any major twists and there aren't really any changes that can happen the
>second time through.
>--
WOW it's terrible, oh wait wasn't it the same with FF 2 and FF 3? Are
you stupid or just a moron, maybe you're both, FF RPGs have ALWAYS
been linear.
Sammael
Sammael
ult...@mail.idt.net (Bad Vader) wrote:
>ad...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Erin Ottley) wrote:
>>Crypt...@geocities.com wrote:
>>(snip!)
>>: The graphics look Every bit as good if not better than FFVII's,
>>: - Cryptic Bug
>>Is there some place that has screen shots of MIII, or are you
>>just quessing?
>> Grimm
>www.gamefan.com
>see it and weep
Yeah and so what! it's on a 64 bit machine that was released 2 years
after the PSX and Mother 64 isn't due out before sometime in 1998, so
I'd say that it would incredible dissapointing if it doesn't look
better than FF VII
Sammael
Sammael
.
>ha ha and like the PSX can read scrached or broken disks...well at least
>magnetic media is good for up to 20 years...cds can become trashed in hours
>if you're careless...in a year or two most cds get scrached by 10 or 20
>years there won't be a 'used' original working copy of FF7...and by then N
>won't care if you have a copy of a n64 game or not because they will either
>be out of buisiness or they will be too busy selling HN (holograpic
>Nintendo)
>
Oh and disk can't be destroyed as easily as cd's? Yeah right, another
moron!
Sammael
Sea Wasp
Ryan Ryttie wrote:
> ! True, Cd's can be damaged, but a magnetic disk is even _easier_ to
> damage..
>
> but you have to be an idiot to put a disk near anything magnetic.
No, you just have to not know it's magnetic. Or you're a kid who
doesn't know about disks and magnets. Or an adult, for that matter. I
would estimate, based on conversations with customers in my store,
that roughly 50% of the literate and intelligent customers still
wouldn't realize why their (magnetic!) credit card strip went bad,
right after getting a wallet with a magnetic closure. Naturally, then,
they wouldn't be any better at realizing why their disks were failing.
All it takes is a second -- you put the disk down on top of your
loudspeaker tower. It rests on your power supply for a minute. It's
put down near a power tool of some kind (even off, they can retain
quite a magnetic field). Shall I go on? There are almost INFINITELY
many ways to get it near a magnetic field, and the thing that makes it
WORSE than scratches on CDs is that you CANNOT see a magnetic field.
You're pretty likely to know you've just rubbed sandpaper on your CD,
but you won't notice it if the person who sits next to you on the bus
happened to have a box of Magnetic Poetry(tm) in the bag they put next
to yours.
..you
> don't have to be an idiot to scrach a CD.
I'd say the opposite. You DO have to be AT LEAST as much an idiot to
scratch a CD. That takes physical force. If you'd let someone use
rough treatment on your CDs, remember that the same rough treatment
would destroy a regular magnetic disk too.
Your point about the "copyability" of disks is well taken, but for
that same reason I'd doubt you'd get "free replacement" of a "failed"
disk, since that would be tailor-made opportunity for a good scam.
I'll note that I have, in the past ten years, had to clean ONE (1)
CD, aside from a couple CD-ROMS that came in a package that had glue
INSIDE it by accident. I have NO CD's that fail to play perfectly,
despite several of them having scratches at various points which, if
on a magnetic disk, would reduce said magnetic disk to useless
plastic. On the other hand, I've had several DOZEN magnetic disks fail
over the years.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Sea Wasp
Atomic Skull wrote:
>
> >!
> >! People are also forgetting that magnetic media is unreliable... It
> >! eventually decay, and I'm certain that Nintendo won't want you to make a
> >! of it.
> >
> >ha ha and like the PSX can read scrached or broken disks...well at least
> >magnetic media is good for up to 20 years...cds can become trashed in hours
> >if you're careless...in a year or two most cds get scrached by 10 or 20
>
>
Skull's right. You're talking through your hat, man. Optical media,
like CDs, are FAR, FAR more reliable and robust than magnetic. Do the
same things to a magnetic disk that you can to a CD and the magnetic
disk will be a useless piece of junk LONG before the CD. Note that
magnetic disks HAVE to be kept in a special cover or they're virtually
certain to be damaged (that square plastic thing is NOT the magnetic
disc, you know; the disk is that paper-thin brown circle INSIDE the
plastic). It takes MUCH greater physical force to damage the surface
of a CD than a magnetic disk -- in fact, physical damage to a magnetic
disk is often utterly invisible to the naked eye.
Moreover, magnetic or electric fields of VERY low intensity can blow
the hell out of your magnetic disk, while a CD basically can't be
damaged by anything that won't damage YOU at least slightly. You'll
KNOW if you wrecked your CD, most likely, but you can completely erase
a stack of magnetic disks without even realizing it.
20 years? For MAGNETIC MEDIA??? Maybe, if it's kept in a
controlled-environment vault with shielding, but in normal use, forget
it. 4 - 5 years at the outside is closer to the truth.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Atomic Skull
>
>! True, Cd's can be damaged, but a magnetic disk is even _easier_ to
>damage..
>
>but you have to be an idiot to put a disk near anything magnetic...you
>don't have to be an idiot to scrach a CD.
>
>although it is true that it is easy to be an idiot...so in that sense you
>are correct.
That's why I believe that they should have put a jacket around PSX CD's,
similar to a floppy...
Anyway, the future is in read/write optical storage, not magnetic media.
FIFA
ok that's your opinion not a very good one but a opinion nonetheless. If
you want to see awesome movie go play Turok and see the little scenes that
kicks FMV's ass and along with Mother 3 wich is 10 times better than FF7
from what I have seen will make Square come back to Nintendo, possible but
still Square has lost the RPG fight and now has new RPG champions "the
creator of Goemon and the creator of Mother 3". Notice both are on the N64
Lord of Shadow <sha...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<shadow0E...@netcom.com>...
> Plot, perhaps? And this vaunted writability is all it's cracked up to
> be. So what if it's writeable, they can't write EVERYTHING onto the
> disc, because of size limitations. Did FF3, which was writable, or
FIFA
yeah but that's 1 year for the best RPG to come out and 2 years for FF7 to
come out. Cd-roms just suck the big one for RPG's.
Sammael <Sam...@post2.tele.dk> wrote in article
<5fg76n$23sc$5...@news.inet.tele.dk>...
FIFA
Atomic Skull <Arg...@ns.net> wrote in article
<5fgd5b$s4d$1...@falcon.ns.net>...
hahahahahahahaha thats bullshit! I do not know about you but I much rather
play a game that if you do something it can save it and remember what you
did(magnetic disc) then something that you really can't edit or do
something because it is not recordable(cd-rom). To put it plainly CD-ROMS
are the stupidest thing consoles can do! PC's it works fine because you can
save the info to a hard disk and the HD makes the cd-rom faster. PS no, no
saving only to a stupid little mem card and thats it, game is the same
always and no editing. Cd-roms may serve a good function but are bad for
consoles. Although I do acknowladge that the cd-rom based systems are doing
very well but I also acknowladge that most gameplayers are in some cases
relatively stupid or do not see a good storage medium that is optional for
games.
Robby64
Siegfried
> Moreover, magnetic or electric fields of VERY low intensity can blow
>the hell out of your magnetic disk, while a CD basically can't be
>damaged by anything that won't damage YOU at least slightly. You'll
>KNOW if you wrecked your CD, most likely, but you can completely erase
>a stack of magnetic disks without even realizing it.
>
> 20 years? For MAGNETIC MEDIA??? Maybe, if it's kept in a
>controlled-environment vault with shielding, but in normal use, forget
>it. 4 - 5 years at the outside is closer to the truth.
What I like about CD's is that you can run over them with your car, leave
them out in the rain, bend them, hit them, throw them against soft
surfaces, even scratch them with a nail, and they can still work. I once
used Comet on a CD, and it didn't cause a problem at all. I've also given
a CD a bath. Water doesn't harm them at all. The thing that really does
harm them really fast is microwaving them. It causes a big spark because
of the foil inside the CD, which instantly becomes like a road map of
fissures. It just takes a second or two. CD's are the most durable media
I've ever worked with. If they get really scratched, you can always use a
scratch remover as well. But the scratches usually only have an effect if
they are arranged in concentric circles.
-Siegfried
Siegfried
Erik Landerholm <land...@ucs.orst.edu> wrote:
>the compression ratios he gives aren't not correct at all. Miyamoto has
>been quoted as saying Mario 64 is compressed in total about 2:1, this is
>adding up the compression of everything. While polygons maybe able to be
>compressed easily the N64 uses Jpeg for the textures and while jpeg is
>one of the best free compression techniques it is NOWHERE near 45:1. But
>in defense these same compression ratios will still be useable by the
>64dd because the N64's cpu is fast enough to decode them w/o sacrificing
>game play.
>
>compression ratios of anything more the 4:1 are just about impossible.
>8:1 verges on the unbelievable...and anymore is out in out crap.
I don't know, isn't there some sort of fractal compression algorithms that
can get 20 to 1 or something like that? I thought I heard that somewhere.
-Siegfried
Atomic Skull
>hahahahahahahaha thats bullshit! I do not know about you but I much rather
>play a game that if you do something it can save it and remember what you
>did(magnetic disc) then something that you really can't edit or do
>something because it is not recordable(cd-rom). To put it plainly CD-ROMS
>are the stupidest thing consoles can do! PC's it works fine because you can
>save the info to a hard disk and the HD makes the cd-rom faster. PS no, no
>saving only to a stupid little mem card and thats it, game is the same
>always and no editing. Cd-roms may serve a good function but are bad for
>consoles. Although I do acknowladge that the cd-rom based systems are doing
>very well but I also acknowladge that most gameplayers are in some cases
>relatively stupid or do not see a good storage medium that is optional for
>games.
>
>Robby64
CD-Rom, I was talking about DVD... A read/write DVD disk can be used much like
a hard drive, except of course that it's an optical storage format, not
magnetic..
blan...@ix.netcom.com
<HTML><BODY>
Sammael wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>.
<BR>
<BR><I>>ha ha and like the PSX can read scrached or broken disks...well
at least</I>
<BR><I>>magnetic media is good for up to 20 years...cds can become trashed
in hours</I>
<BR><I>>if you're careless...in a year or two most cds get scrached by 10
or 20</I>
<BR><I>>years there won't be a 'used' original working copy of FF7...and
by then N</I>
<BR><I>>won't care if you have a copy of a n64 game or not because they
will either</I>
<BR><I>>be out of buisiness or they will be too busy selling HN (holograpic</I>
<BR><I>>Nintendo)</I>
<BR><I>></I>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Ummm.... If you are careful with CDs, they are one of the only true permenant
media. For those who don't know what that means, it's that it will
never loose what is stored on it as long as you keep care of it.
Magnetic Media degrades over a short time (2 to 3 years), and is too easy
to destroy with magnatism.
<BR>
<BR>-Creath Carter
</BODY>
</HTML>
Lord of Shadow
: Are you that simple? First of all 32 megabits = 4 megabytes, and second,
: the DD has 32 MegaBYTES (256 Mbits, if you can't figure it out) writeable
: space NOT 32megaBITS. Granted All of them had the abilty to store vast
: amounts of information, but did they? I seriously doubt they used more
: than FF3, and MIII will.
: - Cryptic Bug
Are you SURE about that bit/byte exchange? I always thought it was
1x4...no you're right, it's 1:8. 2^8=256...alright. Well, I guess that
makes you the most incredible man alive. And it has 32 megabytes, eh?
Why are you assuming that M3 will use all of them? Doesn't that seem
like a rather blithe assumption? Are we also to assume that a two CD
game will use all of the CD space on both CDs? Or even that a one CD
game is using all of the space on that CD? I really think that your
writability = superiority argument is rather weak. Can you come up with
ONE example of a game in which the ability to write large ammounts of
information improved it. Or can you even come up with ways that it
POTENTIALLY could improve upon the game?
Sammael
Crypt...@geocities.com
On 1997-03-04 Sam...@post2.tele.dk(Sammael) said:
>>Lord of Shadow wrote:
>>> Plot, perhaps? And this vaunted writability is all it's cracked
>>>up to be. So what if it's writeable, they can't write
>>>EVERYTHING onto the disc, because of size limitations. Did FF3,
>>>which was writable, or Earthbound, which was writable, have
>intelligent people to talk to?
>>writeablity(about 128 k) can't compare to Earthbound 64(mother 3).
>>Earthbound 64 can have as much as 32 MEGABYTES of rewriteable
>>space(You probely could record everything.). Also it is one of the
>>release games for the 64DD and will definatly you some creative
>>writing capabilities(Nintendo has been mentioning the 64DD's
>>writeablity every chance it gets). It will also be great because
>>the programmers have alot more space to program in a good plot.
>Why can't FF VI compare to Mother 64? Have you tried Mother 64? Do
>you have any information about Mother 64, except that it might be
>released for the DD64 (remember that's what they said about Zelda
>too, but now it looks like Zelda 64 will be out on cartridge)
>Sammael
does compare to MIII, like the subject line says. As for info, we've only
got what Nintendo gives us, and I gave most of it in the original
posting. How it will use writeability, and how the graphics so far
look. We don't know how it will sound or how linear it will be and
won't until E3. The linearity or plot complexity will have to wait
until it's out and somebody reviews it. In the original posting, I was
just trying to stop people comparing FFVII to Zelda.
- Cryptic Bug
Crypt...@geocities.com
On 1997-03-04 Sam...@post2.tele.dk(Sammael) said:
>ult...@mail.idt.net (Bad Vader) wrote:
>>ad...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Erin Ottley) wrote:
>>>Crypt...@geocities.com wrote:
>>>(snip!)
>>>: The graphics look Every bit as good if not better than FFVII's,
>>>: - Cryptic Bug
>>>Is there some place that has screen shots of MIII, or are you
>>>just quessing?
>>> Grimm
>>www.gamefan.com
>>see it and weep
>Yeah and so what! it's on a 64 bit machine that was released 2 years
>after the PSX and Mother 64 isn't due out before sometime in 1998,
>so I'd say that it would incredible dissapointing if it doesn't
>look better than FF VII
>Sammael
Crypt...@geocities.com
On 1997-03-04 Sam...@post2.tele.dk(Sammael) said:
>Newsgroups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.
>video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation
>X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
built-in to the N64 and require's No additional programming. Why would
Nintendo disable it on purpose for the 64DD, when it's used by default,
decreases the load time (less data read from disk -- 64DD speed is the
bottleneck), and requires No extra programing therefore no extra
develpment time?
Crypt...@geocities.com
On 1997-03-03 5fg6ju$23sc$3...@news.inet.tele.dk said:
>the compression ratios he gives aren't not correct at all.
>Miyamoto has been quoted as saying Mario 64 is compressed in total
>about 2:1, this is adding up the compression of everything. While
want to see a direct quote.
>polygons maybe able to be compressed easily the N64 uses Jpeg for
>the textures and while jpeg is one of the best free compression
>techniques it is NOWHERE near 45:1. But in defense these same
the data structures with a hex editor or something. As well, the character
data is made up of polygons, the values just change a bit. Both these things
combined can compress VERY well, if given a specific compression code,
not a general one like Lempel-ziff.
>compression ratios will still be useable by the 64dd because the
>N64's cpu is fast enough to decode them w/o sacrificing game play.
>compression ratios of anything more the 4:1 are just about
>impossible. 8:1 verges on the unbelievable...and anymore is out in
>out crap.
45:1. I'm thinking more in the 20-30:1 range.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>----- http://www.ece.orst.edu/~landerer (My homepage)
>http://www.ece.orst.edu/~landerer/n64.html (My N64 Links Page)
>http://www.ece.orst.edu/~landerer/samara.html (Samara's Shrine)
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
<irrelevent snip>
Ryan Ryttie
Siegfried <csa...@proaxis.com> who uses Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; U; 16bit)
wrote on 4 Mar 1997 06:56:48 GMT in the thread Re: FFVII vs. Earthbound 64
(Mother III):
! > Moreover, magnetic or electric fields of VERY low intensity can blow
! >the hell out of your magnetic disk, while a CD basically can't be
! >damaged by anything that won't damage YOU at least slightly. You'll
! >KNOW if you wrecked your CD, most likely, but you can completely erase
! >a stack of magnetic disks without even realizing it.
! >
! > 20 years? For MAGNETIC MEDIA??? Maybe, if it's kept in a
! >controlled-environment vault with shielding, but in normal use, forget
! >it. 4 - 5 years at the outside is closer to the truth.
i did say formating every five is best...i know for a fact that I have 10
year old Magnetic media..formatted once..not one bad disk out of the
lot..and they were stored near the Computer just a few feet from the
monitor. most of my disks are 5-7 years old I have had only three disks go
bad...and I know where magnetic fields are in my room...if you don't then
you really need
! What I like about CD's is that you can run over them with your car, leave
! them out in the rain, bend them, hit them, throw them against soft
! surfaces, even scratch them with a nail, and they can still work. I once
! used Comet on a CD, and it didn't cause a problem at all. I've also
given
! a CD a bath. Water doesn't harm them at all. The thing that really does
needles put deep scraches that are more destructive than the wide gashes
from Nails...
! harm them really fast is microwaving them. It causes a big spark because
! of the foil inside the CD, which instantly becomes like a road map of
! fissures. It just takes a second or two. CD's are the most durable
media
! I've ever worked with. If they get really scratched, you can always use
a
! scratch remover as well. But the scratches usually only have an effect
if
! they are arranged in concentric circles.
which is why you always wipe from in to out...but how many people actually
clean their CDs the right way...and they do get greasy very fast.
well apparently they can't handle two weeks of testing with 7-14 year
olds...because i was citing the Consumer Reports game testing...
! -Siegfried
oh and try scracthing the top part where the data is stored...
also Audio CDs are far more durable than CD-ROM...in fact you can buy a
$5,000 Audio CD player that can play _Broken_ disks...to demonstrate the
clerk snaped a cd in half twice...put the pieces in and it played
flawlessly. the player used 5 lasers to read virtually any CD no mater how
baddly scrached. CD-roms are much more delicate and can easily be scrached
to the point where the PSX hangs or causes excessive load time...and my
point was CDs get scrached with _normal_ use enough use and they go
bad...all my PSX games have scraches and I am extremely careful with them.
oh and I don't see a single CD based system with protective cases around
them...if N made one they would have had protective cases for the CDs.
--actual warning from the PSX game save card...
Data may disapear if you use the on/off button too many
times while the card is still in the PSX.
---
Delete.Key of The Green Ajah of the AGFF Tower Head Novice Tamer
Ryan Ryttie
Sam...@post2.tele.dk (Sammael) who uses Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 wrote on
Tue, 04 Mar 1997 04:12:12 GMT in the thread Re: FFVII vs. Earthbound 64
(Mother III):
! >ha ha and like the PSX can read scrached or broken disks...well at least
! >magnetic media is good for up to 20 years...cds can become trashed in
hours
! >if you're careless...in a year or two most cds get scrached by 10 or 20
! >years there won't be a 'used' original working copy of FF7...and by then
N
! >won't care if you have a copy of a n64 game or not because they will
either
! >be out of buisiness or they will be too busy selling HN (holograpic
! >Nintendo)
! >
! Oh and disk can't be destroyed as easily as cd's? Yeah right, another
! moron!
::shakes his head at newbie:: is that the best you could come up with? a
personal attack? the others at least tried to refute my point. If you can't
safely store Magnetic media then you _are_ an idiot. I know I have 10 year
old magnetic disks...they still have every bit of data on them. now what
about CDs...i Own 70 CD-ROMs every one has at least a small scratch. you
can't use a 'naked' CD-ROM without scratching it. it is impossible.
therefor it is easyier to scrach a CD than it is to corrupt a disk. any
fool can corupt a magnetic disk, but only a hermetically sealed laser
guided Robotic arm can avoid scraching a CD. I was countering the 'CDs last
forever' mentality. they last no longer than magnetic media...perhaps not
even as long.
! Sammael
for posting a personal attack when a valid counter point could have been
made I the Tamer Of Novices set before you a task. re read the point
counterpoint disscussions of my post...then re-read your own post. Do you
see a difference? If you do. follow-up a synopsis of the difference. if you
don't E-mail me.
Ryan Ryttie
Arg...@ns.net (Atomic Skull) who uses WinVN 0.99.8 (beta 2) wrote on 4
Mar 1997 08:53:04 GMT in the thread Re: FFVII vs. Earthbound 64 (Mother
III):
! >hahahahahahahaha thats bullshit! I do not know about you but I much
rather
! >play a game that if you do something it can save it and remember what
you
! >did(magnetic disc) then something that you really can't edit or do
! >something because it is not recordable(cd-rom). To put it plainly
CD-ROMS
! >are the stupidest thing consoles can do! PC's it works fine because you
can
! >save the info to a hard disk and the HD makes the cd-rom faster. PS no,
no
! >saving only to a stupid little mem card and thats it, game is the same
! >always and no editing. Cd-roms may serve a good function but are bad for
! >consoles. Although I do acknowladge that the cd-rom based systems are
doing
! >very well but I also acknowladge that most gameplayers are in some cases
! >relatively stupid or do not see a good storage medium that is optional
for
! >games.
! >
! >Robby64
!
! If you had actually _read_ my post you would know that I wasn't talking
about
! CD-Rom, I was talking about DVD... A read/write DVD disk can be used much
like
! a hard drive, except of course that it's an optical storage format, not
! magnetic..
some people don't realise that MO technology requires a temperature of
several hundred degerees to be rewritten by a magnet...or that there is
such a thing as MO. still it will be a while before MO is affordable for
home systems...
---
Delete.Key of The Green Ajah of AGFF
---
all junk E-mail not personally requested by me must pay a $1 processing fee. upon payment a Certification code will be sent. sending E-mail without this certification code in the subject line, or reusing this certification code will result in a $499 fee. this fee is based on U.S. Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, ?227, which says any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a fee of $500.00 U.S. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. Consult <http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/227.html> for details. however I charge $1 for a certification code and $499 for not having/reusing certification codes for a total fee of $500 for unregistered junk e-mail.
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Ryan Ryttie
blan...@ix.netcom.com who uses Mozilla 4.0b2 (Win95; I) wrote on Mon, 03
Mar 1997 23:59:52 -0800 in the thread Re: FFVII vs. Earthbound 64 (Mother
III):
! FIFA wrote:
!
! yeah but that's 1 year for the best RPG to come out and 2 years for
! FF7 to
! come out. Cd-roms just suck the big one for RPG's.
all the FMV and load time is what sucks big time--yes I've played the demo
and there _is_ load time even on FF7.
! Um, actually, CD- roms are perfect for RPG's. I don't want to be rude
! but you sound like a disgruntled N64 player that just wants Square to
! come back. CD-rom holds about five to six times as much as a cart, and
minor point CD-Roms have 10X the space of a 64dd disk...another point
Mpeg-2 has something like 30:1 compression at best...although PSX only has
Mpeg-1. and Mpeg is audio/video only and audio gets even worse. and the N
#s are vapor compression...they are based on the difference in size between
Textured Polys and actual bitmap images... M64 only has 2:1 compression on
the data on the cart.
! wouldn't you say that a longer RPG is a better one? As for the little
! mem cards, those are actually helpful, if you ever wanted to go over to
! a friends house and show him your game, you wouldn't have to take your
! whole cart with you just a little card that fits in your wallet. Geez
--actual warning from the PSX game save card...
Data may disapear if you use the on/off button too many
times while the card is still in the PSX.
--actual warning from the PSX game save card...
Data may disapear if you use the on/off button too many
times while the card is still in the PSX.
! man, you should be a little more open minded. The N64 is a great
! machine for 3d games, it is the fastest and most powerful, but Nintendo
! made the mistake of swapping carts for CDs. That is a good choice for
! speed and ultimate 3d gaming, but they lack the storage space, which is
! exactly why Square doesn't feel so good about making games for them.
! They wouldn't be nearly as long if they used those tiny carts. I'm sure
ohh Suikoden is so enormously loong.<heavy sarcasm> they are the same
length..the only advantage of CDs is that they will actually be able to fit
the entire game on them when they translate them over here. english takes
twice the space of japanese text (on average)
! Mother 3 will be great, but you don't have to attack Square because they
! make some great games too, FF just has a bigger reputation.
!
! -Creath Carter
Peter Yao
In article <01bc2866$eb37a900$2694eacf@robby>, "FIFA" <FI...@FIFA.net> wrote:
> ok that's your opinion not a very good one but a opinion nonetheless.
Gee, I didn't know opinions could necessarily be bad. Oh wait, I forgot
that you're allowed to do that because you are the master of all video
games.
> If
> you want to see awesome movie go play Turok and see the little scenes that
> kicks FMV's ass and along with Mother 3 wich is 10 times better than FF7
> from what I have seen will make Square come back to Nintendo, possible but
> still Square has lost the RPG fight and now has new RPG champions "the
> creator of Goemon and the creator of Mother 3". Notice both are on the N64
>
Mmmm, lack of punctuation and a run on sentence. Mmmmmm.
Gosh, scenes that kick FMV ass. An unsupported opinion, but wait a second,
you're allowed to do that because you're the master.
--
"Shee, you guys are so unhip it's a wonder your bums don't fall off."
-Zaphod
zemeron
The information he gave was incorrect. The 64DD will work with the
decompression of the N64.
zemeron
Wrong Wrong Wrong! The 64dd will work with the N64 decompression.
Sea Wasp
Crypt...@geocities.com wrote:
> *snicker* magnetic media is the best viable solution to the writeability
> problem, which is uite large. It's something the Console business has
> been needing for a long time, now. Go on now, read "Magnetic Fallability"
> - Cryptic Bug
> Suppressing Laughter at uninformed
> Magnetic Media Bashers.
Too bad for you that your post is what we call "anecdotal".
First, we need to know the strengths of the magnetic fields your
exposing the things to. We need tests on a large number of disks --
several thousand would be ideal.
And so on.
Anecdotal evidence isn't worth the electrons you're sending out. It
is A KNOWN, ESTABLISHED FACT -- not even arguable -- that stray
magnetic fields can, and have, erased magnetic data from the commonly
used disks.
The fact that you're lucky with your magnetic media doesn't change
the way it operates. "Ye canna change th' laws o' physics!". Do a
calculation on the intensity of the magnetic field that's used to
write the data to the disk. Any magnetic field of that order of
magnitude or greater can, and eventually will, change the pattern on
your disk. There's no argument about it.
When you checked your disk, did you do a full comparison -- bit for
bit -- on every sector of the disk? Or did you just do a directory and
run a program or two, and assume because you didn't SEE an obvious
change that there wasn't one? For instance, in a game disk there will
be MANY video files. Unless you play through the whole game, you may
never SEE the file which got corrupted.
I'll also note that the whole argument is a strawman. Since it's
necessary to "add on" a drive to the N64 to give IT this
"writeability", then the same writeability could be added to either
the PSX or the Saturn with no more difficulty. If it becomes a big
selling point, it'll happen. A regular 1.44 meg drive would be more
than enough to store data on changing landscapes and so on. If you
wanted more space, I'm sure they could come up with better drives.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Sea Wasp
Lord of Shadow wrote:
> Earthbound, was original a Famicon game, ported over the SNES.) But the
> plot kicked ass, right? And the music! What about the witty town names,
> like Foursquare (wasn't that one?) and Onett, and Twoson. And a evil fat
> bully as the final villain! That was SOOO cool.
I liked Earthbound, actually. It was a good KID plot -- a lot more
fun than some of the other plotlines I'd encountered. To be honest, I
preferred Earthbound to FF 2 -- somehow FF2 bogged down in the middle,
and the WANDERING MONSTERS FROM HELL are always a major drag. At least
in Earthbound you could, if you were careful, avoid many of the
monsters... and after a while, the damn things started to notice when
you were Walking Gods and ran AWAY from you! It'd be really nice in
the FF series if these damn leprechauns had the brains of the walking
plants in Earthbound... "Gee, these guys can fry mountain ranges.
Maybe I shouldn't try to stab them with my dagger..."
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Boughton
I own both the PSX and the N64.
It is not a matter of CD-ROMs being better than carts or vice versa. I
don't buy the games I do for what stupid format it's released on.
It's not about pixels or processors or loading time. You all seem to
have lost sight of that.
It's not about Mario or Luigi or Bandicoot or Sonic.
It's all about the game.
If I like a game, I buy it. End of story. If you like FFVII, then buy it
and enjoy! If you prefer Zelda 64 and EarthBound 64, knock yourself out!
Just recognize that we all have different tastes, and there is no
absolute 'BEST' game. Everyone has their own opinion, and we need to
remember to respect that.
That and that the games make the systems.
Lady Ari
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/7769
"She's sun and rain, fire and ice
A little crazy but it's nice
And when she gets mad you best leave her alone
Cause she'll rage just like a river then she'll beg you to forgive her
Oh she's every woman that I've ever known...." Garth Brooks 'She's
Every Woman'
Jackie
Hidetaka Mizohata (hmi...@bgnet.bgsu.edu) wrote:
: dont know <bra...@japan-mail.com> wrote:
: > as most people should recall earthbound stink
: > i mean really stink (the smell)
: > i haven't play earthbound
: > so i can't compare it
: This guy/gal doesn't even know what s/he is talking about. Don't comment on
: something you haven't even played yet.
Heh, I played it, and it stank. =p
I'm not gonna go around and debate this silly arguement about which game
is better. FF7 and M3 (whatever) are in 2 entirely different genres,
much like ff3 and earthbound were. the FF series has always been (I
don't care how much was edited out) more for mature audiences, or
experienced players, whichever you wish to use. Earthbound on the other
hand was targeted towards a younger audience (albeit very cute, I hated
the thing).
Both are going to be great games, fully utilizing the technology they
have available. Trying to compare the games is like trying to compare
Home Alone and...uhm...say From Dusk Till Dawn (no, I didn't like either
of them). Both action/comedy movies, totally different genres.
khayman
Atomic Skull
>
>some people don't realise that MO technology requires a temperature of
>several hundred degerees to be rewritten by a magnet...or that there is
>such a thing as MO. still it will be a while before MO is affordable for
>home systems...
What they do use, I don't know.. but it *is* optical.. It may be similar to
WORM disks, ie, a polarity or phase shift in the materiel of the disk. I've
also learned that DVD disks contain multiple layers, which is how they get 4
gigs in a single speed drive that uses a red laser. (because of the multiple
layers, s "single speed" DVD drive has the data transfer rate of a 4X CD-Rom)..
Atomic Skull
I>
>minor point CD-Roms have 10X the space of a 64dd disk...another point
>Mpeg-2 has something like 30:1 compression at best...although PSX only has
>Mpeg-1. and Mpeg is audio/video only and audio gets even worse. and the N
>#s are vapor compression...they are based on the difference in size between
>Textured Polys and actual bitmap images... M64 only has 2:1 compression on
>the data on the cart.
there is a lot of similarity between frames...
The PSX doesn't have MPEG-1 as far as I know, it's actually motion JPEG..
It's similar to MPEG-1, but more primitive.
Atomic Skull
>them...if N made one they would have had protective cases for the CDs.
>
On what do you base that opinion?
Atomic Skull
>
>> If
>> you want to see awesome movie go play Turok and see the little scenes that
>> kicks FMV's ass and along with Mother 3 wich is 10 times better than FF7
>> from what I have seen will make Square come back to Nintendo, possible but
>> still Square has lost the RPG fight and now has new RPG champions "the
>> creator of Goemon and the creator of Mother 3". Notice both are on the N64
>>
>
>Mmmm, lack of punctuation and a run on sentence. Mmmmmm.
>
>Gosh, scenes that kick FMV ass. An unsupported opinion, but wait a second,
>you're allowed to do that because you're the master.
>
>
Anyone who believes that real-time 3-D can match or exceed pre-rendered
scenes must be smoking something.. It's not possible even on high end
workstations, and it's certainly not possible on an under $300 game console!
Atomic Skull
I
>about CDs...i Own 70 CD-ROMs every one has at least a small scratch. you
>can't use a 'naked' CD-ROM without scratching it. it is impossible.
drive..
Just remember, always pick up the CD by the sides, I've always done this and
none of my PSX CD's have scratches.
Lord of Shadow
FIFA (FI...@FIFA.net) wrote:
: ok that's your opinion not a very good one but a opinion nonetheless. If
: you want to see awesome movie go play Turok and see the little scenes that
: kicks FMV's ass and along with Mother 3 wich is 10 times better than FF7
: from what I have seen will make Square come back to Nintendo, possible but
: still Square has lost the RPG fight and now has new RPG champions "the
: creator of Goemon and the creator of Mother 3". Notice both are on the N64
Really. How many people have purchased Mother 2, may I ask? How many
have purhcased Mother 1? Why, they were SOOOO popular in Japan, they
never even came out on the SNES! (For those who don't know, Mother 2, or
Earthbound, was original a Famicon game, ported over the SNES.) But the
plot kicked ass, right? And the music! What about the witty town names,
like Foursquare (wasn't that one?) and Onett, and Twoson. And a evil fat
bully as the final villain! That was SOOO cool.
(Sarcasm ended.)
If you honestly believe that Mother64 or Mother3, or whatever it's
calling itself, will overwhelm Square, you've got a few loose screws.
N64 appeals primarily to those who prefer action based games, and
Nintendo admits that many of its games target younger audiences, while
others target the action game crowd. For most RPG players, the choice
was Saturn, with Lunar, et all, and PSX, with FF7, Saga Frontier, and so
on. N64 wasn't even a consideration. Therefore, why assume that an
UNPOPULAR RPG, on a NON-RPG GAMING SYSTEM, will beat one of the MOST
POPULAR RPGs EVER?! That seems a ridiculous assertion.
Crypt...@geocities.com
On 1997-03-03 hua...@pl.jaring.my said:
>Final Fantasy VII will kick Mother III to planet pluto when it is
>release in September the 7.
You're not really adding much to these newsgroups. In the future, please
give reasons for your opinions.
Crypt...@geocities.com
On 1997-03-03 Arg...@ns.net(AtomicSkull) said:
>Newsgroups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.
>video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation
>>I think MIII will blow FFVII out of the water mainly due to the
>>64DD's writeability. RPG's are meant to approximate "real life"
>situations
>Better not dit the disk too close to your TV, or any other device
>that generated a magnetic field or you can kiss it goodby. And
>the data will eventually decay over time anyway.
>Read/write DVD (4 gigs of read/write optical storage) is the future
>of console storage, not CD-Rom, not unreliable magnetic disks.
Oh good. My first victim. Read the posts in r.g.v.nintendo entitled
"Magnetic Fallability" and then say that. R/W DVD drives will cost
at LEAST $5000+ for a few years. In the meantime, so-called "unreliable"
*snicker* magnetic media is the best viable solution to the writeability
problem, which is uite large. It's something the Console business has
been needing for a long time, now. Go on now, read "Magnetic Fallability"
- Cryptic Bug
Suppressing Laughter at uninformed
Magnetic Media Bashers.
Net-Tamer V 1.08 - Test Drive
Sammael
"FIFA" <FI...@FIFA.net> wrote:
>ok that's your opinion not a very good one but a opinion nonetheless. If
>you want to see awesome movie go play Turok and see the little scenes that
>kicks FMV's ass and along with Mother 3 wich is 10 times better than FF7
>from what I have seen will make Square come back to Nintendo, possible but
>still Square has lost the RPG fight and now has new RPG champions "the
>creator of Goemon and the creator of Mother 3". Notice both are on the N64
You've got to be a total moron if you think that some lame movie in
Turok (I have Turok) can compare to the FMV sequences in FF VII, maybe
you should atleast try FF VII before write bullshit like you just did.
BTW since when did Goemon transform into a RPG? Are you really that
deluded? Goemon (Legend of the mystical ninja) is a PLATFORM GAME, and
Mother 2 (Earthbound) was a mega flop in the US if you didn't already
know that!
Sammael
Sammael
"FIFA" <FI...@FIFA.net> wrote:
>yeah but that's 1 year for the best RPG to come out and 2 years for FF7 to
>come out. Cd-roms just suck the big one for RPG's.
How the fuck can you say that Mother 3 is the best RPG?? Are you some
kind of braindead moron? Mother 2, known as Earthbound in the US was a
major failure in the US, the graphics and the music was probably made
by some 3 year old children! And you're trying to compare that lame
RPG series to the FF series, how old are you 3 years???
Sammael
Sammael
> >Yeah and so what! it's on a 64 bit machine that was released 2 years
> >after the PSX and Mother 64 isn't due out before sometime in 1998,
> >so I'd say that it would incredible dissapointing if it doesn't
> >look better than FF VII
> >Sammael
>Excellent point, but the original point was that it DOES look better (IMHO).
> - Cryptic Bug
Yeah but I don't think that it looks as FF VII (IMO).
Sammael
Crypt...@geocities.com
On 1997-03-05 Sam...@post2.tele.dk(Sammael) said:
>Newsgroups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.
>video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation
until that's released and then decide if Nintendo can produce good Cinema.
- Cryptic Bug
Crypt...@geocities.com
On 1997-03-03 Arg...@ns.net(AtomicSkull) said:
>>and apparently the music on FFVII is in Midi, so you can't predict
>>how much MIII's Music will suck for lack of Red Book Audio. Am I
>forgetting anything?
>Many games on the PSX have soundtracks that seem to be redbook at
>first, but turn out to be generated by it's synth engine (Suikoden
>comes to mind).
Are you agreeing with me or what? You seem to be saying exactly what I
said, but perhaps you're saying PSX's Non-RedBook Audio kicks N64's Midi
anyday. If not, please forgive me, but I've heard people say Turok's
Music sounds RedBook, except that it loops.
Jordan C. Lund
Boughton (n...@rt66.com) wrote:
: Just recognize that we all have different tastes, and there is no
: absolute 'BEST' game. Everyone has their own opinion, and we need to
: remember to respect that.
: That and that the games make the systems.
Absolutely... You know what... I bought a Virtual Boy today and am
having a blast! I thought I would hate the tennis game that it comes with
(I hate tennis) but it's actually damned fun! As is "Jack Bros." done by
Atlus, cutesy murderer type guys who just wanna go home.
The game's the thing and for anyone with an extra $30 to blow
(plus an extra $10 for the AC plug) a Virtual Boy is tons of fun and it
beats the living hell out of those cheezy LCD hand-held things that Tiger
makes.
- Jordan
jor...@europa.com
****************************************************************************
* "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately... and not, *
* when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." - Thoreau *
****************************************************************************
Ryan Ryttie
Arg...@ns.net (Atomic Skull) who uses WinVN 0.99.8 (beta 2) wrote on 5
Mar 1997 00:48:57 GMT in the thread Re: FFVII vs. Earthbound 64 (Mother
III):
! I
! >about CDs...i Own 70 CD-ROMs every one has at least a small scratch. you
! >can't use a 'naked' CD-ROM without scratching it. it is impossible.
!
!
!
! None of my CD's have a single scratch.. Course, my PC's CD-Rom is a
caddy
! drive..
look closer...
! Just remember, always pick up the CD by the sides, I've always done
this and
! none of my PSX CD's have scratches.
I do...well let's see not counting junk AOheLl CDs i think only two CD-ROMs
of mine have been destroyed one from a 'hard fall' onto a heat register the
other from five minutes alone with one 2 1/2 year old and one 4 year
old...i thought it would be safe inside the jewel case...foolish me.
besides they weren't even supposed to be in that room...fortunately it was
one of the $3-$5 CD-ROMs from Best Buy...(probabally why I didn't notice
that it wasn't safe with the rest of my CD's)and it takes extended use to
badly scrach a CD, but if FF7 isn't used a lot then what CD would be...for
instance Kain has many more scraches than the one scrach on BtB, because i
actually play Kain...plus the disks always pop off the holder thing...(in
the case)
---
Delete.Key of The Green Ajah of the AGFF Tower Head Novice Tamer
Ryan Ryttie
III):
! >
! >some people don't realise that MO technology requires a temperature of
! >several hundred degerees to be rewritten by a magnet...or that there is
! >such a thing as MO. still it will be a while before MO is affordable for
! >home systems...
!
!
! Actually, I've discovered that the read/write DVD disks _are not_
MO..
! What they do use, I don't know.. but it *is* optical.. It may be
similar to
! WORM disks, ie, a polarity or phase shift in the materiel of the disk.
I've
! also learned that DVD disks contain multiple layers, which is how they
probabally conforms to PD rewritable standards (Phase-Change Dual) why
would anyone want rewritable media as slow as a 4x cd-rom??? (that's PD's
speed, not DVD) still MO is going to hit the nice price first...then PD
then DVD-rom then DVD rewritable then maybe holographic memory crystals...
also some of these may miss consoles completely...I don't think there will
be any console with a 10x or 12x CD-ROM...(I turn my back on CD-ROM drives
for a few months, and 8x are selling for what i last saw 2x drives selling
for...and RAM...I could double my RAM for less than a 4 MB chip sold for
only 2 1/2 years ago. hmm in six months PCs with 266 MHz of processing
power should cost ~ $2000 with a low end laser printer--I could be jumping
the gun on the laser printer though...)
get 4
! gigs in a single speed drive that uses a red laser. (because of the
multiple
! layers, s "single speed" DVD drive has the data transfer rate of a 4X
CD-Rom)..
!
don't forget DVD is dual sided like Laser Disks (or is that just
DVD-ROM...)
Thank you Warcraft II programers! your tip,
"Never pet a burning dog,"saved me from almost
making that mistake last week while I was
playing warcraft II. I am sure hundreds of lives
and thousands of hands will be saved by your
tip menu. Signed Chaos aka Delete Key
---
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upon payment recieved you will be notified at the email address
included with payment that you may send your junk E-mail. payments may
Ryan Ryttie
III):
! >> If
! >> you want to see awesome movie go play Turok and see the little scenes
that
! >> kicks FMV's ass and along with Mother 3 wich is 10 times better than
FF7
! >> from what I have seen will make Square come back to Nintendo, possible
but
! >> still Square has lost the RPG fight and now has new RPG champions "the
Fight? for what? Square has never held a majority of any RPG market...nor
has any other video game company (one could argue that TSR has a majority
of the US P&P RPG market) remember the TG-16 and the TurboDuo that system
had the most and the best RPGs (in japan) yet Square never made a turbo Duo
game.
! >> creator of Goemon and the creator of Mother 3". Notice both are on the
N64
! >Mmmm, lack of punctuation and a run on sentence. Mmmmmm.
! >
! >Gosh, scenes that kick FMV ass. An unsupported opinion, but wait a
second,
! >you're allowed to do that because you're the master.
! Anyone who believes that real-time 3-D can match or exceed
pre-rendered
! scenes must be smoking something.. It's not possible even on high end
it is called 'taste' you may think that only art that looks like a
photograph is 'good' but some people would vehemently disagree. some
consider 'realism' to be uncreative.
! workstations, and it's certainly not possible on an under $300 game
console
err because in real-time 3-d you are not totally limited...gee why would i
buy a game if i wanted to watch a movie? or vice-verse...a good hollywood
film like Star Wars totally anhilates the FMV tacked onto any game. If I
wanted to see a movie I would go to the movies--not buy a game. however
there is a delicate balance. on one hand you have SSIs AD&D line of games
which IMO have 1 oz of plot between the whole lineup. and well err most the
plot filled games are fun, so on the same hand you have FMV filled games
and Prerendered games like MYST which supposedly have plot, but i fail to
see how 'where's Waldo' has any plot what-so-ever (MYST is a giant Where's
Waldo game...hmm should i click here? oops that's not waldo...)
---
Delete.Key of The Green Ajah of the AGFF Tower Head Novice Tamer
---
all junk E-mail not personally requested by me must pay a $1 processing fee. upon payment a Certification code will be sent. sending E-mail without this certification code in the subject line, or reusing this certification code will result in a $499 fee. this fee is based on U.S. Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, ?227, which says any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a fee of $500.00 U.S. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. Consult <http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/227.html> for details. however I charge $1 for a certification code and $499 for not having/reusing certification codes for a total fee of $500 for unregistered junk e-mail.
Ryan Ryttie
III):
! >them...if N made one they would have had protective cases for the CDs.
!
! On what do you base that opinion?
on the Vaporware SNES CD-ROM Drive--the N made a statement that they would
not release a CD-ROM drive without using protective housing cases. also
that was to house an optional game save chip, but well the big N seems to
be going the way atari did. add-ons over $40 don't work...the RAM upgrade
is the best thing N has going for it's system (besides 64 dd--and that
might not do well) you think they would have learned after the NES Robotic
Operating Buddy thing...those games were more fun if you let someone else
do ROB's job expecially when they got bored and crushed you...'honest i
thought i had to just press A...'
blan...@ix.netcom.com
Boughton wrote:
I own both the PSX and the N64.
It is not a matter of CD-ROMs being better than carts or vice versa.
I
don't buy the games I do for what stupid format it's released on.
It's not about pixels or processors or loading time. You all seem to
have lost sight of that.
It's not about Mario or Luigi or Bandicoot or Sonic.
It's all about the game.
If I like a game, I buy it. End of story. If you like FFVII, then
buy it
and enjoy! If you prefer Zelda 64 and EarthBound 64, knock yourself
out!
Just recognize that we all have different tastes, and there is no
absolute 'BEST' game. Everyone has their own opinion, and we need to
remember to respect that.
That and that the games make the systems.
AMEN!!
-Creath Carter
Bad Vader
Sam...@post2.tele.dk (Sammael) wrote:
>"FIFA" <FI...@FIFA.net> wrote:
Have you played Mother 3 yet? I don't think so. If I were you I
would shut your F***ing mouth until you tried the game. You might end
up eating your words.
Like STAR WARS? Go to http://idt.net/~ultra19/
Lots of video and music clips.
Updated every day!
Nightshade
> --
You know...this was probably one of the most intelligent posts I've
seen.
BraveHeart
It may be intelligent, but what good is a post if it doesn't spawn evil
responses....
---- Two hands and only one mouth...
Now that's a drinking problem!! ----
Crypt...@geocities.com
>>to damage..
>>but you have to be an idiot to put a disk near anything magnetic...
>>you don't have to be an idiot to scrach a CD.
>>although it is true that it is easy to be an idiot...so in that
>>sense you are correct.
>That's why I believe that they should have put a jacket around PSX
>CD's, similar to a floppy...
>Anyway, the future is in read/write optical storage, not magnetic
>media.
That's absolutely right. I think the future IS in R/W optical storage.
The trouble is, Right now, how much would a drive of this sort cost? If
Nintendo could bring out an optical R/W drive that holds the same amount
or more than the 64DD, I'd but it right away.
Crypt...@geocities.com
On 1997-03-02 gi...@sprynet.com said:
>Newsgroups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.
>video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation
>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1160
>Crypt...@geocities.com wrote in article <5far9b$hru$6...@news.bctel.
>net>...
>> competition will be, which is between FFVII and MIII (Mother III,
>> Earthbound 64, whatever), and possibly DQ8 (is it 8?). Personally
>> I think MIII will blow FFVII out of the water mainly due to the
>64DD's <snip>
>> first place. The graphics look Every bit as good if not better
>than FFVII's,
>> and apparently the music on FFVII is in Midi, so you can't
>predict how much
>> MIII's Music will suck for lack of Red Book Audio. Am I
>forgetting anything?
>Yes you're forgetting how bad the first Earthbound was.
>I know it has it's crazed fanboy following but really
>the first Earthbound sucked. They hyped it but it still
>sucked. I bought it and returned it 3 days or so later.
>It was terrible. Call mommy every so often etc...
>It'll suck due to storyline, music, plot, but will probably
>have great graphics.
Ah, I'm not forgetting it never did very well. I never played it (don't jump
on that just yet, finish reading first). Apparently it was just a NES port
and was rather bad. I never heard any hype about it. I didn't know it
existed until I saw it sitting on shelves (FAR too expensive for my
circumstances at that point). But IMHO, the original DQ was terrible, as
well. It had a good story and all, but one-on-one RPG battles are REALLY
dull. Just pres Fight, Fight, Fight, because any healing you perform that
turn will most likely be lost, because the enemy had no choice but to hit
you turn after turn, instead of hitting someone else and letting the first
character recover. No depth. I'm not basing my opinions of this one(MIII),
because it will be totally different than the previous ones, or any other
RPG for that matter, due to writeability being used heavily. I've heard the
Storyline and plot of FFVII are basically the same as FFVI and nothing
special. And as for the music, how can you say that? No one has any Idea
what it will sound like, yet. FFVII's Music is MIDI, so the quality, at
least will be the same as FFVII's, now it's up to the composers to make good
music. I've seen about 20 screenshots, and the graphics look awesome already
and are quite varied. It looks like there will be a lot of area in this
game, and I don't see why it would be any shorter than FFVII, as the maps
compress really well. What else is left? Oh yeah, the Kiddie thing. Well,
if you're not secure enough in your adulthood to play a game without a
depressing palette and Musical score, sex scenes, vulgarity and blood, then
have fun with FFVII. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, and these
are mine.
Crypt...@geocities.com
On 1997-03-05 X$1feeforjunkemailpr...@worldnet.att.netXlatefeesmayapplyseesigfordetailsX(RyanRyttie) said:
>Newsgroups: alt.games.final-fantasy,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.
>video.nintendo,alt.games.video.sony-playstation
>X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99g/16.339
>Arg...@ns.net (Atomic Skull) who uses WinVN 0.99.8 (beta 2) wrote
>on 5 Mar 1997 00:51:51 GMT in the thread Re: FFVII vs. Earthbound
>64 (Mother III):
>! >> If
>! >> you want to see awesome movie go play Turok and see the little
>scenes that
>! >> kicks FMV's ass and along with Mother 3 wich is 10 times
>better than FF7
>! >> from what I have seen will make Square come back to Nintendo,
>possible but
>! >> still Square has lost the RPG fight and now has new RPG
>champions "the
>Fight? for what? Square has never held a majority of any RPG market.
>..nor has any other video game company (one could argue that TSR
>has a majority of the US P&P RPG market) remember the TG-16 and the
>TurboDuo that system had the most and the best RPGs (in japan) yet
>Square never made a turbo Duo game.
>! >> creator of Goemon and the creator of Mother 3". Notice both
>are on the N64
>! >Mmmm, lack of punctuation and a run on sentence. Mmmmmm.
>! >
>! >Gosh, scenes that kick FMV ass. An unsupported opinion, but wait
>a second,
>! >you're allowed to do that because you're the master.
>! Anyone who believes that real-time 3-D can match or exceed
>pre-rendered
>! scenes must be smoking something.. It's not possible even on
>high end
>it is called 'taste' you may think that only art that looks like a
>photograph is 'good' but some people would vehemently disagree. some
>consider 'realism' to be uncreative.
Oh please! Look at ome screenshots of Mother III, and say they're realistic
in the normal sense of the word. They're definately typical Jap-RPG style
graphics (anime?), only in True 3D - They look like they've got substance.
Ummm...Let me put that a better way...Umm If the world looked like that
(brightish colors, strange animals, and Anime-styled characters/buildings)
this would approximate it very closely. Realistic Anime? The backgrounds
are very realistic, but the characters are anime-styled. You'll have to
look at the screenshots to see what I mean.
<irrelevent snip>
Crypt...@geocities.com
On 1997-03-04 blan...@ix.netcom.com said:
<weirdness snip>
>Ummm.... If you are careful with CDs, they are one of the only true
>permenant media. For those who don't know what that means,
>it's that it will never loose what is stored on it as long as you
>keep care of it. Magnetic Media degrades over a short time (2
>to 3 years), and is too easy to destroy with magnatism.
>-Creath Carter
NEXT!! Go look at the Posts entitled "Magnetic Fallability". Even if
what you said were true (which it isn't), why should it be any harder
to "keep care of" a 64DD disk than a CD? ...Destroy with magnetism. HA!
- Cryptic Bug
Once again, suppressing laughter
at uninformed 64DD haters, only
failing this time. <evil grin>
Ryan Ryttie
Crypt...@geocities.com who uses wrote on 5 Mar 1997 03:22:11 GMT in the
thread Re: FFVII vs. Earthbound 64 (Mother III):
! On 1997-03-03 Arg...@ns.net(AtomicSkull) said:
! >>and apparently the music on FFVII is in Midi, so you can't predict
! >>how much MIII's Music will suck for lack of Red Book Audio. Am I
! >forgetting anything?
! >Many games on the PSX have soundtracks that seem to be redbook at
! >first, but turn out to be generated by it's synth engine (Suikoden
! >comes to mind).
! Are you agreeing with me or what? You seem to be saying exactly what I
! said, but perhaps you're saying PSX's Non-RedBook Audio kicks N64's Midi
! anyday. If not, please forgive me, but I've heard people say Turok's
! Music sounds RedBook, except that it loops.
neither PSX nor N64 use General MIDI...not even SNES used GMIDI...however
MIDI has come to be used in reference to any sound synthesis system that
plays music based on notes or scores. PSX has a fairly good MIDI system but
so does the N64. also it is Nobuo that makes FF7 music worth listening to.
so PSX has better composers than the N64. unless yyou actually have the
actual specs on both MIDI systems you can't say this one is better. and you
might not be able to do that even with the specs beacuse it is concievable
that they both have different strong points...you can, however, say that
PSX has the best composer doing music for PSX games. it's opinion, but
around here you would be hard pressed to find a differing view. Square has
a bunch of good composers.
! - Cryptic Bug
!
! Net-Tamer V 1.08 - Test Drive
---
Delete.Key of The Green Ajah of AGFF
---
all junk E-mail not personally requested by me must pay a $1 processing fee. upon payment a Certification code will be sent. sending E-mail without this certification code in the subject line, or reusing this certification code will result in a $499 fee. this fee is based on U.S. Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, ?227, which says any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a fee of $500.00 U.S. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. Consult <http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/227.html> for details. however I charge $1 for a certification code and $499 for not having/reusing certification codes for a total fee of $500 for unregistered junk e-mail.
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____ _
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| /\ | / \ \====|
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