32 Megabit SNES Backup Units ("Copiers") $290! The ultimate SNES accessory!
Jar...@ipof.fla.net
NEW BACKUP UNITS FOR SALE:
PROTECT/ENHANCE YOUR SNES CARTRIDGE INVESTMENT!
EXTEND THE LIFE OF YOUR TOTAL SNES INVESTMENT!
PROFESSOR SF II
-32 Megabit Super Nintendo Backup unit.
-Same features, maker, circuit board, case, etc. as the Game Doctor
SF7, just different name badge for the US.
-Works with all NTSC SNES's and the Super Famicom.
-Backs up the NEWEST games to 3.5" floppy disk
(KI, DKC2, EWJ2, WWF Wrestlemania, etc.)
*Once backed up, you never again need your cartridge to play!*
-32 Megabits main backup memory. -Expandable to 128 Megabit.
-Save RAM (for your savegames)
-32k BRAM for games that have battery backup.
-You can backup your cart, your Save Ram, and your Battery Ram.
-FAST 1.44 and 1.6 meg floppy load/save.
-Self-test menu for RAM,ROM,SRAM,BRAM,Cartridge and Floppy.
-Built-in formatter for 720k/1.44m/1.6mb disks
-Ability to have MULTIPLE games loaded; you can have both an 8mbit and
24 mbit game loaded into main memory (number/size of games loaded
depends on your total backup RAM size (32 in this case).)
-RETAINS GAMES IN MEMORY EVEN WITH SNES POWER OFF. No need to reload!
-Can display 256 color PCX image files on your TV.
-Efficient, low chip-count circuit board: only 6 chips including
2 SRAM chips, ROM firmware chip, and GDSF-701 SMT ASIC chip.
-Built in Gold Finger cheat code system. (like Action Replay/Game
Genie) Game Genie code conversion program included.
-Built-in variable Slow Motion to slow down your games.
-Built-in Real Time Save to save your games ANYTIME during play.
-Built-in 25-pin CD-ROM/EPP expansion port. (for optional CD Rom
drive)
-English, Japanese, or Chinese menus selectable.
-Auto load backup or auto play cartridge on SNES power-on.
-Smooth, simple, elegant rounded white/gray clamshell housing
and cartridge slot dust cover. Forget those blocky, clunky units.
-Ability to handle 9-12 volt, 850 Ma-1.5A power supplies.
Your replacement options are MUCH greater.
-Manufactured in ISO-9000 quality certified facilities,
by the same company that manufactures products for:
Pro Action Replay (Datel), Nakitek, STD/Interact,
many more.
-Registered under FIVE international patents:
US: 5238250 Taiwan: UP 79063
UK: 2239810 Singapore: 1409/1994
Hong Kong: 930/1995
Can the competition claim that?
-QUALITY JAPANESE 10 Volt AC POWER SUPPLY IS INCLUDED (unlike others).
No Taiwan junk power supplies (if they supply them at all).
-CD7 2x Speed External CD-ROM is optional, interfaces directly with
the Professor SF so you can load backup files directly from CD via
your SNES keypad. Includes unified power supply for both CD and backup
units.
Professor SF-II 32 Megabit backup unit With Power Supply;
-$290-
The BEST price in mail order on any NEW 32Mbit unit, with P/S.
!!NOW!! $15 discount if you're referred by a former customer!
That's right... a 32mbit GDSF7/PSF2 for $275!
-Professor SF-II 64 Megabit backup unit: -$395-
This is what some charge for their -32- megabit units!
-Professor SF-II 128 Megabit backup unit: -$560-
--Special order. Requires 2 extra days & PREPAYMENT.
-64 Megabit RAMcard for Prof.SF2, Game Doctor SF6/7: -$250-
-32 Megabit Ramcard: $145
-16 Megabit Ramcard: $80
-CD-7 2x External CD-Rom unit, with unified P/S,
use with Professor SF2, Game Doctor SF7: -$140-
PLEASE NOTE: WE WILL NO LONGER BE CARRYING EURO/PAL UNITS AS A
STANDARD ITEM.
Don't pay through the nose for a 32/64mbit backup unit!
ALL UNITS ARE NEW (10/95 or newer manufacture, 3.70 or newer ROM)
AND ARE TESTED PRIOR TO SHIPPING.
ALL INSTRUCTIONS IN ENGLISH.
1 YEAR DOMESTIC WARRANTY.
Shipping: $6 for UPS Ground (prepay), or $12 for UPS COD.
Add $6 to either of the above two options for 2nd Day Air.
UPS Next Day Air and 3-Day Select also available on request.
COD: Cash/Money order only. No jokers with bad checks.
AK/HI Residents, add $3 to total shipping cost.
Canada residents: USPS Air Parcel Post + insurance: $16
International: Email for quote.
International and Canada orders:
Must prepay via mail-in payment or wire transfer.
No cross-border/international COD.
Customs duties on Video Game Accessories may vary,
please check for your country. (none for Canada)
All payments in US Dollars.
To Order, Contact: JAR...@IPOF.FLA.NET (Internet)
WARNING AND DISCLAIMER: READ NOW!
These units are to be used ONLY for backing up existing software you
own or for enhancing the software you own with "real-time save",
"slow-motion", and other features. The unauthorized duplication of
software is a violation of criminal and FCC statutes and is a felony
punishable by law. The Seller takes no responsibility for any legal
violations incurred by the Buyer through any use, non-use, misuse, or
possession of such a unit. The Buyer agrees to indemnify the Seller
of all liabilities related to such, and the Buyer assumes all legal
responsibilities and liabilities connected with the use, non-use, or
possession of said "backup unit" and agrees to use the unit for legal
purposes. Buyer must agree to these terms as a condition of sale.
If unit is resold, buyer also agrees to enforce all the above
conditions upon the person the unit is resold to.
ANYONE MENTIONING THE USE OF THESE UNITS FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN
LEGITIMATE BACKUP OR GAME ENHANCEMENT USE WILL BE DENIED SALE. WHEN
ORDERING YOU MUST STATE THAT YOU HAVE READ, UNDERSTOOD, AND AGREE TO
THE ABOVE CONDITIONS. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE CONDITIONS THEN DO
NOT BOTHER TRYING TO PURCHASE A BACKUP UNIT.
MORE INFO:
The Game Doctor/Professor SF series (& Super UFO 7) originated several
of the features copied by the Super Wild Card and Profighters in their
latest models as well as some that they have yet to incorporate, such
as game retention, multiple game loading, and so on. Anyone who tells
you different does not know the REAL backup unit market, in Hong Kong,
Taiwan, & the Far East, composed of no less than 10-12 different
brands, and selling more than 7-8 times the volume of the US market
(and even Europe). In the Far East, the Game Doctor 7 is the #1 seller
by a large margin due to the combination of features and price.
Current sales volume for the Far East alone is 30,000 units a month
(Hong Kong, China, Taiwan, Thailand, Philippines). The number of Game
Doctor-brand units sold to date number close to 1,000,000 units; there
are more Game Doctors in existence than any other unit in the world.
The company sells so many units they actually have television ads in
Hong Kong. Phone numbers of various shops in HK can be supplied to
verify this in case others attempt to claim this as false. ALL the
illegal pirate console CDs in Hong Kong are in Game Doctor/ Professor
SF format. Most people in the US don't know about these units with
the exception of many Asians living here because the manufacturer
does not put a heavy priority on export unlike the well-known-in-
the-US CCL and FFE. Both companies looked abroad early due to the
tough competition in the Far East (dominated by the Game Doctor)
and as a result got an early foothold in the US and European markets
and firmly established themselves. However in the Far East, the
Game Doctor 7 sells roughly as many units in one month as the Super
WIldcard sells in a year in the US and Europe; the Far East market
is not only huge, but has true competition.
(and of course this will have people yelping, but tough luck. You
ever been to Hong Kong and visited factories in Tsuen Wan,NT? Or in
Taichung, Taipei? Didn't think so.)
THE DIRT:
How much is the competition GOUGING you? In Hong Kong, the
GameDoctor/Professor, the Super WildCard DX, and the
Profighter X Turbo all sell for roughly the SAME price.
Basically, if someone sells you a SWC DX for 399, and he has
good sourcing, he is making about 180 bucks off of you. Even with
mediocre sourcing he's making upwards of 130 dollars off you.
That's right.. that's an 80% markup in some cases. I'm out to make a
profit too, but even -I- don't have the nerve to try and soak
the consumer for THAT kind of money..
ARCLIGHT ENTERPRISES
"..For the meek shall inherit the earth only when
we're good and done with it, and with them."
-Fred Rexer, G.I.
Cyber Phreak
parts.
I will wait for more response, but I vote that we flame him to Bloody
H-ll (I don't want to offend anyone;).
--
How dost one manipulate this foul contraption?
Cyan.
Thou art such a pain in the... darn it, now i'm talking like you.
Sabin.
I wonder if she's going to go ballistic again?
Locke (about terra)
Tim Ziemann
> NEW BACKUP UNITS FOR SALE:
> PROTECT/ENHANCE YOUR SNES CARTRIDGE INVESTMENT!
> EXTEND THE LIFE OF YOUR TOTAL SNES INVESTMENT!
>
> PROFESSOR SF II
> -32 Megabit Super Nintendo Backup unit.
> -Same features, maker, circuit board, case, etc. as the Game Doctor
> SF7, just different name badge for the US.
> -Works with all NTSC SNES's and the Super Famicom.
> -Backs up the NEWEST games to 3.5" floppy disk
> (KI, DKC2, EWJ2, WWF Wrestlemania, etc.)
=========================================================
Hanson
>I think your right in both counts, the guy is crazy, and so he works for
>Nintendo. Hes probably that sad guy with the stupid base ball cap on, who
>looks after their so called `Nintendo Road Shows` at shows.
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>Jul...@jrca.demon.co.uk
>Southend, Essex. UK
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
If this guy works for Nintendo, I'll eat my shorts. It's a fake
e-mail address. This guy is also the weenie who vents about how much
the N64 "sucks" and that the "Saturn rules". He's an troller, nothing
more. And if you'd just ignore him, all the better. Continuing this
thread just encourages him. Many people have told him to stuff it and
turn off his caps lock. He won't. If we just ignore him, he'll go
away.
From a *real* N64 proponent
Hanson
andrew l jones
> It has been said that Tim Ziemann wrote:
> >
> > hi i'm Mario
> > ============
> >
> > Those people talking about N64 in a bad way will be the first who will buy
> > it after it being released .... So everyone will buy it .... Ha Ha Ha !!!!
> >
> > NINTENDO I WANT IT ALL
> > NINTENDO HAVE MORE FUN
> > NINTENDO PLAY IT LOUD
> > NINTENDO COOLER THAN EVER BEFORE
> > IF YOU WANT THE BEST BUY N64
> > IN COMPARISON TO N64 GAMES
> > THE BEST PSX GAMES ARE LIKE C64 GAMES
> > NOTE: I'AM MARKETING MANAGER FROM NCL
> > NOTE: I STILL HAVE AN N64 :-)
> > YOU WANNA BE COOL BUY N64
>
> I'm sure that there are some people in the known universe who will not
> buy N64. My point of view is simple: I buy the system Square supports.
> Compared with Final Fantasy 4, ALL games will be like C64 games. As they
> say, just my 2 cents.
>
> ----TOMA LEVINE, THE GREAT EXPLORER----
>
> "Idiots, nothing lives forever. Zeal...a pitiful woman duped by
> Lavos!"-Magus
I don't paln to buiy one. about that nothing lives forever actually we
all do ,but it would require alot of philosphical explaining spefiaclly 18
pages out it. I've posted on some phil related newsgroups about it. N-64
is impressive ,but will the games be long? I mean 3-d graphics on a cart
is aVERY restective
Alex Hutton
> I don't paln to buiy one. about that nothing lives forever actually we
>all do ,but it would require alot of philosphical explaining spefiaclly 18
>pages out it. I've posted on some phil related newsgroups about it. N-64
>is impressive ,but will the games be long? I mean 3-d graphics on a cart
>is aVERY restective
Why do you think 3d graphics on a cart system would be restrictive? I
would think that carts would be better for 3d games.
cyal8r
NOTE: You are now reading the sig.
Chris Pickett
> I will NEVER buy an N64 or any other consol. not while my computer can
> outperform any little game consol and the games (on average) cost much
> less. Sorry Nintendo, this is one fish you've never been able to hook
> and never will be able to.
I'm going to take another slant at this, and at the same time limit the
amount of cross-posting that shouldn't be going on.
I will NEVER buy a N64, or whatever the heck they are calling it this
week. I'm also going to say I'm not going to buy a PSX or a Saturn or a
Jaguar, or any other console.
Yeah, my computers(Mac, DOS/Windows, UNIX, I have lots of computers) could
probably do a better job. But my computers are for work, or for specific
task and I'm certainly not going to waste a computer for my video gaming.
I do agree with your logic for using your computer and won't argue that.
I'm into portables, so if it isn't portable, then I ain't buying. The
closest I have to a console is my Genesis Nomad which I do occasionally
hook up to the TV. I even have the rather non-portable Virtual Boy too. In
all actuality, I travel so much, I like to take it with me, thus portables
make more sense. Yeah, Nintendo has their hooks in me with my Game Boy and
Virtual Boy. Sega has their grip on me with the Game Gear and Nomad. Atari
has a finger on me with my Lynx, and NEC has a small piece of me with
their TurboGrafx Express. I pledge no loyalty to any company, although
chances are if they make a portable system, I'm most likely going to buy
it.
--
* Chris Pickett, owner of Studio42, the finest in 8-bit Mac samples.*
* AES Member, Sacramento, CA & Los Altos Networks Web Master *
* cpi...@ns.net, cpic...@mediacity.com, chris@ lanets.com *
* Try "talk"ing with me if I'm online: ch...@cpicket.ns.net *
*---> Check out my little web page: http://www.ns.net/~cpicket <---*
*------> Los Altos Networks Home Page: http://www.lanets.com <------*
Par-Salian
: so...@baste.magibox.net (andrew l jones) wrote:
:
: > I don't paln to buiy one. about that nothing lives forever actually we
: >all do ,but it would require alot of philosphical explaining spefiaclly 18
: >pages out it. I've posted on some phil related newsgroups about it. N-64
: >is impressive ,but will the games be long? I mean 3-d graphics on a cart
: >is aVERY restective
:
: Why do you think 3d graphics on a cart system would be restrictive? I
: would think that carts would be better for 3d games.
And why do you think that? Remember that carts don't have the
storage room of a CD. Remember things like texture maps take up space..
-Par <p...@cloud9.net>
Rune
>bab...@azstarnet.com (John Babich) wrote:
>
>>In article <315CAA...@aloha.net> Roger Coggburn <cos...@aloha.net>
> writes:
>>>From: Roger Coggburn <cos...@aloha.net>
>>>Subject: Re: EVERYONE WILL BUY NINTENDO 64
>>>Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 17:29:38 -1000
>
>>>If sqare is leaving nintendo then what rpg games will there be for n64 other
>>>than zelda 64
>
>>The new Dragon Quest, maybe. I think so because Nintendo will pick it up to
>>secure RPGs on the system.
>
>> John
>Square is a great RPG company, but they're not the only game in town.
>Dragon Warrior (made by Enix) causes riots in Japan when a new
>installment is released. For Dragon Warrior V they actually had to
>pass some sort of legislation for store owners concerning it. Besides
>DW, there's other stuff by Enix, Feda (the Shining in the Darkness and
>Shining Force guys), Capcom's Breath of Fire series, and much more.
>Square is a blow to Nintendo, but it's not the end of the world. I
>still plan on getting a N64.
>
The problem is that the big N wants exclusive title for the N64 and other than
Enix, I see no problem for these title not appearing on the Saturn or PSX.
-Rune
erik landerholm
nintendo. acutually in a recent article of "video games" a senior
official from square said that once the N64 came out with the 64DD they
would start making exclusives for the N64 and just port a lot of the old
SNES classics to the 32-bit systems. find a copy and read it.
__________________________________________________________________________
enter my homepage: dedicated to the N64
http://www.ece.orst.edu/~landerer
sign my guestbook and don't forget to vote
for what you think will be then best game
for the N64 when in comes out!! later
__________________________________________________________________________
Torbjorn
>In article <31606bb5...@news.oz.net> k...@oz.net (Kevin Lee) writes:
>>From: k...@oz.net (Kevin Lee)
>>Subject: Re: EVERYONE WILL BUY NINTENDO 64
>>Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 23:52:55 GMT
>>In message <gart-01049...@mars174.terraport.net>,
>>ga...@terraport.net (Garret Thomson) wrote:
>>> One question: why is N64 crap? Its clearly superior (and will be cheaper)
>>> than anything else out on the market..... doesnt that speak for itself?
>>It's about as clear as the skies in Seattle.
>>N64 has several disadvantages, being that the bulky drive or ROM chips
>>can't hold as much info a CD has, and overall (including price of cart
>>games, bulky drive, etc.) it is about or more expensive than Saturn or
>>Playstation.
>>peace...
>>kpl
>Nintnedno is getting ROM chips for much less from a special dealer! This means
>that games will be cheaper! I read this at Cap Scott's N64 page (ask for
>adress).
> John
Cheaper than what???
/TJ
John Babich
Nintendo's data compression, the equivelent of over 200 Mb.
>Thats rubbish Babich, come on do you really beleive they would make a
>64MB diskdrive with slower access if they could fit as much or more on
>carts for a reasonable price....
OK, 64MB = 512 Mb + three times better Data Transfer Rate (1 MB per second)
And for the carts, 64 Mb - 96 Mb, still a lot, I admit it's not 200 though.
>> Now, Dark Forces for the PC is 70 Mb, with all the voices and
>>cinemas. IMO, a game doesn't need to be huge to be good, just look at
>>Phantasmagoria, 7 cds = it still sucks.
>So...A large game is not neccesarily good...Do you beleive a small
>game will be good just becuase its small...If you want I could name
>some bad games that are under 8MB...but would that prove anything???
No, it's just that a game doesn't *have* to be big to be good. Mario 64 was on
a 1 MB cart at Shoshinkai (sp?) and many people said that it's the best game
they've ever played. Considering that the final game will be many times
larger, you can expect a lot.
>> Nintendo is getting their ROM chips
>>from a special dealer so games will be 59.99 to 69.99! That's not much
>>different than current prices!
>We haven't seen the prices yet...and that's probably for the "normal"
>(= small cartridges) that will be available for the first bunch of
>games...I think $70 sounds like a lot of money for a 12MB game
>(rumored size of M64, Kirby 64 is supposed to be 8MB)
Cap Scott's got those prices listed on his page, and I trust him.
John
---------------
BURN THE CD-ROMs!!!! (And fighting games too!)
e...@inferno.physics.uiowa.edu
Almo!
erik landerholm
__________________________________________________________________________
enter my homepage: dedicated to the N64
http://www.ece.orst.edu/~landerer
sign my guestbook and don't forget to vote
for what you think will be then best game
for the N64 when in comes out!! later
__________________________________________________________________________
On Wed, 3 Apr 1996 e...@inferno.physics.uiowa.edu wrote:
> I WON'T!!!!!!!!!
>
> Almo!
>
>
John Babich
>From: m-1...@mailbox.swipnet.se (Torbjorn)
>Subject: Re: EVERYONE WILL BUY NINTENDO 64
>bab...@azstarnet.com (John Babich) wrote:
>>>peace...
>>>kpl
>> John
>Cheaper than what???
>/TJ
Well, cheaper than normal, I forgot, it's something like $20 for a 8 MB chip.
That's about the same price as the SNES 32 Mb chips, so expect the games to be
around $59.99.
John
Franco Simanjuntak
appreciated. Thanx.....
[35m_________________________________________________________________________
Franco Simanjuntak | `Too bad that all the people who know how to run the
fra...@slip.net | country are all busy driving taxis and cutting hair'
------------------------------------------------------------ George Burns [37m
Hanson
>>Now, Dark Forces for the PC is 70 Mb, with all the voices and
>>cinemas. IMO, a game doesn't need to be huge to be good, just look at
>>Phantasmagoria, 7 cds = it still sucks. Nintendo is getting their ROM chips
>>from a special dealer so games will be 59.99 to 69.99! That's not much
>>different than current prices!/
>
>Yes, a mysterious ROM dealer that no one knows about and who charges
>way below everyone else. $59 to $69 eh? Sure they will be. Think they
>can cut much off that price to compete? Maybe 10 bucks? Their profit
>margin is TIIIIINY!!
Recent news is that Nintendo has in fact purchased a ROM manufacturing
house. But you know that already, eh?
>As for a CD, which costs less than a buck in production, with
>packaging under 3 bucks, gee, guess how much they can cut the prices
>and still make sick profit.... Down to $35 if they wanted to, lower
>even.
>ARCLIGHT ENTERPRISES
> -F. Rexer
They won't lower the cost of CD's because they won't really sell many
more than they do now. Good games will sell anyway, and the market is
not large enough to expect significantly higher sales by reducing
prices on games. At the same time, would you spend even $30 on a game
that reportedly sucks? No, the publishers are quite happy with profit
they make now -- changing prices would only lower their profits. Now,
perhaps if there are tens of millions of Brand X console out there...
Hanson
Franco Simanjuntak
> On the map, hold select and press these buttons: x, x, y, b, a
Thanx Mike! I'll give this code to my little cousin next thing tomorrow
morning.
Mike Wasilewski
Hanson
>>The games will be the same price as current SNES games, $59-69. Come on,
>>that's not that much more.
>Yeah sure they will.
They will, and they taken steps to achieve that goal. Nintendo will
soon be making their own ROM chips -- do you think that'll help?
>And CD publishers can cut their prices to $35 if they wanted to and
>still make 900 percent profit.
>The same can't be said for those 59-69 buck prices. The profit margin
>on there is tiny.
Why on earth would a software company cut their prices for no reason?
A first party killer app is one thing (to spur sales of the console)
-- but why would a third party developer do such a thing? This
argument makes no sense, AFAIC. And you keep harping on it.
>And maybe 59 bucks will be the norm around NU64 time... for CDs for
>the Bandai Griffen, Saturn 2, 3DO M2, and what have you. The market
>today is not the market near the end of the year.
> -F. Rexer
I repeat -- there's no reason for publishers to cut their prices
unless they would be increasing sales volume enough to make up the
difference. But the market is not and will not be big enough for that
until the next boom cycle comes along. In other words, don't hold
your breath. So according to you, CD based consoles are better
because the games are less expensive huh? And all along I though it
was gameplay. Sheesh.
Please crosspost responsibly!
Hanson
Hanson
>Now that was a reply!!! (I hate Nintendo by the way) Another thing about that
>sorry system, it's cartridge based but in a couple of months after launch they
>are going to have some sort of optical drive. excuse me but if they are going
>to bring out an $250 optical drive (no bigger than 60 Megs carts costing $100
>to $150 (i wouldn't pay these prices if my life depended on it) you would be
>better off buying a Computer after paying those prices.
>
None of what you say is based on any credible speculation. Your
prices are way off the mark -- N64 games will cost the same as SNES
games, none of which were over $80 in the States (and that's MSRP --
I've never paid more than $70 for an SNES game). Nintendo has deal
with a ROM manufacturer in Hong Kong to reach this price. In
addition, they recently bought a ROM manufacturing plant. So your
over exaggerated price claims for carts are just that. And the 64DD
will not be $250 -- prices thrown about range from $89 to $149 with
$129 being most likely. So, wrong again by at least 100%. And for
your information, the 64DD is *not* optical -- nor is it
magneto-optical for that matter. It's magnetic only. A 60 meg cart?
That's a 480 mbit cart -- there's no such thing. Perhaps you're
referring to the 64 meg 64DD disks. Who knows? It's hard to take
what you say seriously. In fact, you're so universally wrong that I
doubt that you even know what you're talking about. Your hatred for
Nintendo has obviously clouded your ability to perceive facts.
And why don't you look before you crosspost?
Hanson
David Powell
>
> Howdy,
>
> You obviously havn't taken a look at whats on offer in the latest console systems. They outperform
> *ANY* IBM PC system. I dont care if you have a 986 with 1Gb of RAM and 120 Terrabytes of HDD
> space. The fact is that the latest console system do what they do best! They kill anything on a
> PC platform, and now they are being packed with MPEG video too! Its a fact that they will
> eventually replace the VCR. PC's are way too limited in what they can do with polygons etc. Take
> a closer look. Sony Playstation, 3DO, and maybe N64, are pretty awesome machines for pushing
> around sound & graphics. Lets not even talk about PC sound technology..What a joke!
>
> Cya
> Dwight.
PC's are too limited with polygons - false - just look at all the new 3d accelerator cards coming
out. Creative Labs 3d-Blaster, Diamond Edge, Matrox MGA, etc. Some I think even use the same
technology as in the game platforms.
Many PC's also come with MPEG hardware.
PC's sound - Extremely good- Have you ever heard Roland's Sound Canvas? Or some other Wavetable
card? You are probably thinking of either Adlib or PC-speaker beeps and buzzes.
The major point in my view is that a single PC system can 1) run games, 2) run applications, 3) is
upgradable to newer technolgy, _while_maintaining_compatability_with_older_software_. The same
computer that can have great looking, sounding, polygon-rendered, three-dimensional games can run the
classic games that you still like. And if new technology comes out, you can upgrade, and run all the
above, and whatever newer games come out with the new technology. The power of the PC is
_flexibility_.
------------------------
David Eric Powell
David_...@brown.edu
------------------------
nintendo boy
__________________________________________________________________________
enter my homepage: dedicated to the N64
http://www.ece.orst.edu/~landerer
sign my guestbook and don't forget to vote
for what you think will be then best game
for the N64 when in comes out!! later
you need a frames capable viewer such as Netscape 2.0 :(
__________________________________________________________________________
SirRichard
looked cool, Sony or Sega will want to bring out a MKart killer. On 9/30
the N64 will be in just its 1st gen of games. 64-bit huh? Bits don't
matter anymore to me-
PSX & Saturn have 32 and are damn good, and the Neo-Geo with 24 ain't bad
either (geez I wish they'd get the CDZ out here though).
_________ _________
/________ . __ /_______ / . _ /_ _ __ __/
_________/ / / ' / \ / /_ / / /_/| / ' /_ /
_________________________________________________
David
In Article<4k277f$l...@chaos.dac.neu.edu>, <ade...@lynx.dac.neu.edu>
writes:
> Path:
news.scott.net!acara.snsnet.net!HiWAAY.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.i
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> From: ade...@lynx.dac.neu.edu (Alexander DeDios)
> Newsgroups:
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> Subject: Re: EVERYONE WILL BUY NINTENDO 64--whatever
> Followup-To:
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> Date: 5 Apr 1996 04:23:11 GMT
> Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA
> Lines: 56
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>
> Viper (vi...@mcn.net) wrote:
>
> blah.. <snipped>.
>
> : I suppose I've ripped consols to shreds enough for today. You want
> : more? Come and get it, I'm ready for you.
>
> Sure, you did. Your $2000 big guy sure is superior to my $300 toy. Of
> course, I still have $1700 to play with.
>
> : Viper
>
> : PS--I'm the one who originally said consols suck and computers kick ass
> : in this thread.
>
> Who the hell beat you up when you were younger? What's with the attitude?
> Granted, whoever provoked this must have been pretty misinformed but like
> you said "you get what you pay for". $2000 or $300? BTW,I play on any
> platform; consoles, PC's and Macs. You have good points but it depends on
> what type of game you want to play. If you want arcade action, go for the
> consoles. They're MADE for it. I've played MKIII and others but it
> doesn't truly compare. The resolution is sharp but the characters are
> still BLOCKY.
>
> If you want a flight simulator go ahead and use a PC even though all the
> fancy gadgets (analog joysticks, pedals) are also coming out for these
> consoles. Strategy games are slowly becoming equal on both platforms.
>
> Point is neither sucks nor rules. It depends on the flavor you
> like. You talk about upgrading your PC? Go ahead, spend $300 on the
> latest video card, I'll buy another Saturn XX or PSX XX. Same price. I
> don't doubt that the PC can emulate a console (hell, games for the
> consoles are programmed on them!) but it'll cost you $$$. Now can that be
> justified? No, I don't think so.
>
> Don't talk about graphics either. I'll take my 27" S-Video equipped TV
> over a 14" Super VGA monitor when playing games anyday. If you're playing
> Warcraft II or C&C no problem. Once I play VF2 or Tekken, screw that. Go
> ahead and look at it on a GOOD TV. I don't see all this "fuzz" you
> mention. Plus, you can buy a 3-D accelerator to play VF on the PC but
> it'll cost as much as a stand alone Saturn. More $$$ spent so that you
> can say that the PC is the greatest.
>
> And don't even talk about sound. You're talking about Genesis/SNES sound.
> Don't even think about picking on the Saturn or PSX. Wavetable cards are
> sweet but the games on a PC, Saturn and PSX are going to sound the same.
> Play Doom on a PSX and a wavetable equipped PC. I don't think your
$200+
> 32-bit wavetable card blows away the Saturn's or PSX's sound.
>
> For every point you bring up, either I or someone else will have a
> counter-point. So don't bring your shit here. If someone started it,
> squash it privately but don't provoke an entire group.
>
> -Alex
>
>
Well, y'all are getting close to finding a resonable conclusion to
this debate, but this reply was really misguided.
Sure, I pay two to three thousand for a computer and only 2 to 3
hundred for a video gaming system, but look at it this way...
Anyone who would spend $2500 dollars just to play games is the biggest
dumbass ever! It would be impossible to list the "millions" of
advantages of computers over consoles, and when you get down to the
point, computers actually end up being about 200 times more useful
than your Saturn/Playstation/Jaguar/(N64)/etc...
Hanson
>
>I will buy an N64 when:
>
>1) I see more than one game that I like on it. My decision to buy a
>Playstation was made when I saw 15 games I liked on it, 2 on the Saturn and 1
>on the N64.
Valid point. You buy for the games. I have noooo problem with that.
>2) When I see an N64 game do something that a Playstation AND a Saturn can't.
> So far, all we've seen are 3-D polygon games much like PSXes Jumping Flash.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Jenn
Um, Jenn... what are you expecting exactly? For Mario to climb out of
the TV and shake hands with you? Maybe, dance a waltz or something?
The N64 is a dedicated *polygon* engine -- what exactly do you think
you're going to get? And BTW, quit with all the "Mario 64 is a ripoff
of Jumping Flash" nonsense (not you personally, I mean in general).
Jumping Flash doesn't have the variety of gameplay that Mario 64 will
have (he runs, he swims, he jumps, he flies, he climbs, he tip-toes,
etc.) and there is no way to switch to as many perspectives as Mario
64 can. More importantly, the overall reaction of industry people who
played Mario 64 at Shoshankai was "Wow! Unique!" not "Hey, it's like
Jumping Flash". And it wasn't even finished.
Hanson
M.Clough
crawling back on its knees to Nintendo begging for forgiveness for their
treachery. I can't helped but be reminded of a version I came up with of
the "Married with Children" theme I came up with:
Nintendo and Square...
Nintendo and Square
They can't help but make the perfect pair
Try to separate the two
It's an illusion
etc, etc, etc
Square will return to Nintendo, if they know what's good for them. As for
FFVII...looks good, too bad no one will see how good it would be on the
Ultra.
Celes Chere
PS: Keep those petition sigs coming in! New demands: Square's return to
Nintendo, Bahamut Lagoon..and damn what GF says! Remember,
http://www.netshop.net/~cloughs/celes/petition.html
>In article <4jn6f9$s...@service-2.agate.net>, over...@overkill.sdi.agate.net (Rick Florey) wrote:
>>bab...@azstarnet.com (John Babich) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <315CAA...@aloha.net> Roger Coggburn <cos...@aloha.net>
>> writes:
>>>>From: Roger Coggburn <cos...@aloha.net>
>>>>Subject: Re: EVERYONE WILL BUY NINTENDO 64
>>>>Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 17:29:38 -1000
>>
>>>>If sqare is leaving nintendo then what rpg games will there be for n64 other
>>>>than zelda 64
>>
>>>The new Dragon Quest, maybe. I think so because Nintendo will pick it up to
>>>secure RPGs on the system.
>>
>>> John
>>Square is a great RPG company, but they're not the only game in town.
>>Dragon Warrior (made by Enix) causes riots in Japan when a new
>>installment is released. For Dragon Warrior V they actually had to
>>pass some sort of legislation for store owners concerning it. Besides
>>DW, there's other stuff by Enix, Feda (the Shining in the Darkness and
>>Shining Force guys), Capcom's Breath of Fire series, and much more.
>>Square is a blow to Nintendo, but it's not the end of the world. I
>>still plan on getting a N64.
>>
>The problem is that the big N wants exclusive title for the N64 and other than
>Enix, I see no problem for these title not appearing on the Saturn or PSX.
>
>-Rune
John Babich
>8:1 ratio. Sure graphic sprites and some music files can be (with some
>degradation at the higher levels), but other things like programming code
>can't be compressed by more than 2:1 or 3:1. It's like trying to fit a 20
>hour show on a 2 hour tape. The tape quality won't change things, just
>like the processor type won't change what can't be further compressed.
"Nintendo is using the JPEG technology to decompress texture maps on the fly"
Next Generation # 14 Pg. 40
"Given compression ratios of up to 8:1, this will mean that Ultra 64 games
will have the equivalent to cartrige games of 200 Mbit 'conventional' memory"
Same issue, same page.
That's where I got the info before, I forgot about it.
John
-------------------
BURN THE CD-ROMs!!! (And the fighting games!)
John F. Lee
John Babich <bab...@azstarnet.com> wrote:
>
>"Nintendo is using the JPEG technology to decompress texture maps on the fly"
>Next Generation # 14 Pg. 40
>
>"Given compression ratios of up to 8:1, this will mean that Ultra 64 games
>will have the equivalent to cartrige games of 200 Mbit 'conventional' memory"
>Same issue, same page.
JPEG compression can _only_ compress graphic files like texture maps.
Everything else will be relagated to 2:1 or less. And may I point out,
yet again, that *nothing* can be played directly off of if the data is
compressed.
And quoting Next Gen about technical logistics is like quoting Hitler on
ethics.
>
>That's where I got the info before, I forgot about it.
>
> John
>-------------------
>BURN THE CD-ROMs!!! (And the fighting games!)
Afraid of them?
--
John F. Lee - God of Ponytails and Bajoran Earrings
"I was not created in the likeness of a fraud." - Red Hot Chili Peppers
"Tell them I said something" - Pancho Villa's Last Words
jfl...@u.washington.edu : http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jfl666
Brant Rusch
1) Everyone whos demoed the system so far says "its neet, but its not
as groundbreaking as we were lead to believe".
2) Most people have already chosen the Saturn or Playstation as their
next-gen system. The market is pretty well divided up between the two
right now......very few people at this point are still "holding out"
for a Nintendo 64....namely because of all the quality stuff coming out
for Playstation and Saturn right now.
I think that Nintendo has dropped the ball on this one....the "Next
Generation" systems are NOT selling like the genesis/snes/nintendo did
5 years ago, and I think Nintendo realizes that right now. A 3 system
market will only get everyone disgusted....
Brant
John Babich
>Everything else will be relagated to 2:1 or less. And may I point out,
>yet again, that *nothing* can be played directly off of if the data is
>compressed.
Look at Mario 64, there's tons of texture-maps! Compression will not make that
much of a difference, but it will make a difference.
>And quoting Next Gen about technical logistics is like quoting Hitler on
>ethics.
What's wrong with NG? Hitler? Oh, sure, throw in Hitler...
>>
>>That's where I got the info before, I forgot about it.
>>
>> John
>>-------------------
>>BURN THE CD-ROMs!!! (And the fighting games!)
>Afraid of them?
No, actually I'm a DVD advocate. I just have had bad experiences with
CDs...Turbo Duo, Sega CD, etc. Mostly from load times, and a little from my
Sega CD breaking a whole bunch of times... (hopefully they'll fix that by the
time DVD-ROMs come out...)
Torbjorn
>They won't lower the cost of CD's because they won't really sell many
>more than they do now. Good games will sell anyway, and the market is
>not large enough to expect significantly higher sales by reducing
>prices on games. At the same time, would you spend even $30 on a game
>that reportedly sucks?
Would you rather buy 5 great games at $70 a piece than 5 as good ones
for $30 a piece?
If there is only one or two games you really like I can see that a
price difference doesn't really matter, but I think its very wrong to
assume that price-point isn't important...Nintendo is living proof of
this..Sacrificing and compromising with the N64 in order to get it
below $250! The price do matter!!
> No, the publishers are quite happy with profit
>they make now -- changing prices would only lower their profits.
Maybe not if they lower them as a competetive move against Nintendo!!
Nintendo aims mostly at the Kids-market!! And Beleive me a BIG
argument for Sony, Sega Whatever that would appeal to the average
parent, could be cost-of-ownership....
/TJ
Torbjorn
>They will, and they taken steps to achieve that goal. Nintendo will
>soon be making their own ROM chips -- do you think that'll help?
No matter how many Silicon-plants Nintendo buys I can't see how they
should be able to produce a 5200Mbit (=1 CD) Cart for $1...
You (or Square :-)) tell me...
>>And CD publishers can cut their prices to $35 if they wanted to and
>>still make 900 percent profit.
>>The same can't be said for those 59-69 buck prices. The profit margin
>>on there is tiny.
>Why on earth would a software company cut their prices for no reason?
True, they wont!!
But that may just be what the software companies will be forced to do
if Nintendo want to get the same profit out of each cart as Sony/sega
gets from each CD sold...
>A first party killer app is one thing (to spur sales of the console)
>-- but why would a third party developer do such a thing? This
>argument makes no sense, AFAIC. And you keep harping on it.
You are right! The software comapines want of course to have as high
profit margins as they can get. This is ONE of the problems with carts
by the way, as a higher production cost makes either customer prices
higher or profit margins lower. The ONLY reason for CD-gme prices to
drop drastically is as always in market economy DEMAND! if demand
drops the prices will probably drop, to increase demand...If the N64
lives up to its hype it would seem reasonable that the competiveness
of the market would drive CD prices down (if more expensive and
high-quality cart-games becomes available at the same price with as
large games as CD-based games)...
>>And maybe 59 bucks will be the norm around NU64 time... for CDs for
>>the Bandai Griffen, Saturn 2, 3DO M2, and what have you. The market
>>today is not the market near the end of the year.
>> -F. Rexer
>I repeat -- there's no reason for publishers to cut their prices
>unless they would be increasing sales volume enough to make up the
>difference. But the market is not and will not be big enough for that
>until the next boom cycle comes along. In other words, don't hold
>your breath. So according to you, CD based consoles are better
>because the games are less expensive huh? And all along I though it
>was gameplay. Sheesh.
Well we can't really discuss gameplay for the N64...right? Or how many
finnished games have you been playing for it...
We could of course discuss the gamplay on current native CD-based
systems (PC,3DO,Saturn,PSX) comapred to gamplay on cart-based
Platforms (SNES,Genesis,Jag etc). But that is kinda irrelelvant if we
are interested in the N64s future...right? or wrong?
/TJ
>Please crosspost responsibly!
>Hanson
Torbjorn
> PC's are too limited with polygons - false - just look at all the new 3d accelerator cards coming
>out. Creative Labs 3d-Blaster, Diamond Edge, Matrox MGA, etc. Some I think even use the same
>technology as in the game platforms.
> Many PC's also come with MPEG hardware.
> PC's sound - Extremely good- Have you ever heard Roland's Sound Canvas? Or some other Wavetable
>card? You are probably thinking of either Adlib or PC-speaker beeps and buzzes.
> The major point in my view is that a single PC system can 1) run games, 2) run applications, 3) is
>upgradable to newer technolgy, _while_maintaining_compatability_with_older_software_. The same
>computer that can have great looking, sounding, polygon-rendered, three-dimensional games can run the
>classic games that you still like. And if new technology comes out, you can upgrade, and run all the
>above, and whatever newer games come out with the new technology. The power of the PC is
>_flexibility_.
You are right that the PC's may *become* viable alternatives to
game-consoles in gaming...But hey just look at the 3D-accelerator
cards thats here and coming...Why would I buy those if the card cost
more than a complete console, with, CD, MPEG, A/V PAL/NTSC output,
cables, controller etc etc...That would be a rather stupid financial
descicion..But hey if they are a lot less expensive than a console (or
provide much more power) it would probably be a hit...
But lets face it The consoles can keep ahead as they easier can adapt
new technology and be manufactured in higher quantities with hardware
designed for mass production rather than supporting a general
architecture etc. I alkso beleive that there will be more and more
entertationment systems in future incorporating DVD, video and Gaming
in dedicated machines...
Its kinda like a VCR...I would rather buy a separate VCR than to build
one into my computer...
Saving the number of boxes isn't always the best solution...
/TJ.
Torbjorn
>>The point you're missing is that some things can't be compressed with an
>>8:1 ratio. Sure graphic sprites and some music files can be (with some
>>degradation at the higher levels), but other things like programming code
>>can't be compressed by more than 2:1 or 3:1. It's like trying to fit a 20
>>hour show on a 2 hour tape. The tape quality won't change things, just
>>like the processor type won't change what can't be further compressed.
>"Nintendo is using the JPEG technology to decompress texture maps on the fly"
>Next Generation # 14 Pg. 40
So what??
Do you beleive that JPEG is something unique to use in the N64????
I'll bet you there are JPEG-code for PSX, Saturn, 3DO etc as well..
>"Given compression ratios of up to 8:1, this will mean that Ultra 64 games
>will have the equivalent to cartrige games of 200 Mbit 'conventional' memory"
>Same issue, same page.
This is bullshit! If NG believes this they're stupid as hell!!! Do
you beleive that DKC for example is not compressed in any way...on the
cart????
>That's where I got the info before, I forgot about it.
Just becuase something is written somewhere it doesn't take away your
possibility to look up information from different sources and try to
apply som healthy critisism on what you read...and maybe draw some
logical conclusions now and then...
/TJ
Felix Tan
>>8:1 ratio. Sure graphic sprites and some music files can be (with some
>>degradation at the higher levels), but other things like programming code
>>can't be compressed by more than 2:1 or 3:1. It's like trying to fit a 20
>>hour show on a 2 hour tape. The tape quality won't change things, just
>>like the processor type won't change what can't be further compressed.
ARGG!!! Look, most of the space on those crappy (excuse my bias) cd-roms are
being used to store things like FMV and music... YES, there are exceptions
(RPGs), but that's beside the point. If most of the data is just that, DATA,
and non-vital data at that, then, sure, N will use fractal compression or
whatever its got to crunch the pictures down 1:600,000,000,000. Of course its
not going to JPEG its code!!! Any company with half a wit wouldn't do that, and
anybody with half a brain wouldn't think they would do that (although some of
you sony/sega fans will prolly insist that N is an exception:). But code isn't
what's taking up the space!!!
SoRRYY!! FOR screaming!!! I don't know what's!! gotten into me!!!
Felix.
John Babich
>From: ru...@ix.netcom.com(Brant Rusch )
>Subject: Re: EVERYONE WILL BUY NINTENDO 64
>Just some reality checks here:
>
>1) Everyone whos demoed the system so far says "its neet, but its not
>as groundbreaking as we were lead to believe".
They're seeing the 1st gen games too! And everybody who's played Mario 64 says
it's the best game ever made.
>2) Most people have already chosen the Saturn or Playstation as their
>next-gen system. The market is pretty well divided up between the two
>right now......very few people at this point are still "holding out"
>for a Nintendo 64....namely because of all the quality stuff coming out
>for Playstation and Saturn right now.
>
Millions of people who own the SNES or Genesis have no Next Gen system.
That's proven by the fact that there are close to 20 million of those systems
out there.
>I think that Nintendo has dropped the ball on this one....the "Next
>Generation" systems are NOT selling like the genesis/snes/nintendo did
>5 years ago, and I think Nintendo realizes that right now. A 3 system
>market will only get everyone disgusted....
The current market is much too small for three systems.
John
-------------------
BURN THE CD-ROMs!!! (And fighting games!)
HAIL DVD!
John Babich
fly" >>Next Generation # 14 Pg. 40
>So what??
>Do you beleive that JPEG is something unique to use in the N64????
>I'll bet you there are JPEG-code for PSX, Saturn, 3DO etc as well..
But Mario 64 looks to have a ton of texture maps.
>>"Given compression ratios of up to 8:1, this will mean that Ultra 64 games
>>will have the equivalent to cartrige games of 200 Mbit 'conventional' memory"
>>Same issue, same page.
>This is bullshit! If NG believes this they're stupid as hell!!! Do
>you beleive that DKC for example is not compressed in any way...on the
>cart????
I do beleive DKC is compressed, and I think that N64 games can be compressed
even more.
>>That's where I got the info before, I forgot about it.
>Just becuase something is written somewhere it doesn't take away your
>possibility to look up information from different sources and try to
>apply som healthy critisism on what you read...and maybe draw some
>logical conclusions now and then...
No, I got flamed before because I said it would have the equivalent of
200 Mb and got rightfully flamed. That issue is pretty old, too. Just look at
the games, how *could* they be done without being compressed as hell.
John
-------------------
BURN THE CD-ROMs!!! (And the fighting games!)
HAIL DVD!
Chris Hanson
Babich) wrote:
> >The point you're missing is that some things can't be compressed with an
> >8:1 ratio. Sure graphic sprites and some music files can be (with some
> >degradation at the higher levels), but other things like programming code
> >can't be compressed by more than 2:1 or 3:1. It's like trying to fit a 20
> >hour show on a 2 hour tape. The tape quality won't change things, just
> >like the processor type won't change what can't be further compressed.
>
> "Nintendo is using the JPEG technology to decompress texture maps on the fly"
> Next Generation # 14 Pg. 40
>
> "Given compression ratios of up to 8:1, this will mean that Ultra 64 games
> will have the equivalent to cartrige games of 200 Mbit 'conventional' memory"
> Same issue, same page.
>
> That's where I got the info before, I forgot about it.
>
> John
> -------------------
> BURN THE CD-ROMs!!! (And the fighting games!)
that is all well and good, bu8t JPEG compression is for image files only,
so the JPEG compression would only be for the sprite, or texture maps.
Danny & Norma
Rec.games.video.marketplace is for active selling and buying of products.
If someone is interested in your politics they will go to a different
newsgroup.
- Danny
Joey McCloud
friggin' love videogames, then you've gotta check out the "VideoGame
Tester Homepage." It's totally great and the coolest part is there is
even a game co
ded in html to play right on the page! It's called, "A Day In The Life
As A GameTester." Basically, the object is to find the crashbug. At
any rate, the page was created by a game tester for gamers. It's got a
hot vide
ogame pick of the month review, and it's even got a test department
soap opera about the actual people this guy works with! What did you
say? Who cares about people you don't know? Taken care of. There's a
profiles sec
tion of the test team with a picture and bio for each tester so you get
know them. Here's the address so just copy and paste it into your
browser right now and start checkin it out!
http://members.aol.com/testersweb/private/index.html
BTW there's some Java stuff in there too so it's best viewed under
Netscape 2.0. It's still lookes cool with different browsers but you'll
be missing stuff.
Foo Man
>>Just some reality checks here:
>>
>>1) Everyone whos demoed the system so far says "its neet, but its not
>>as groundbreaking as we were lead to believe".
>They're seeing the 1st gen games too! And everybody who's played Mario 64 says
>it's the best game ever made.
I believe the first statement more than yours. Mags have said, at
best, that Mario 64 has the potential to be the best game ever made.
Even that is not saying much because, well, the mags said it. :)
> John
>-------------------
>BURN THE CD-ROMs!!! (And fighting games!)
>HAIL DVD!
You realize you're just hailing a glorified CD-ROM, right?
The evening was sultry...
Bluebear
bab...@azstarnet.com (John Babich) wrote:
>In article <4k60s4$r...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> ru...@ix.netcom.com(Brant
Rusch ) writes:
>>From: ru...@ix.netcom.com(Brant Rusch )
>>Subject: Re: EVERYONE WILL BUY NINTENDO 64
>>Date: 6 Apr 1996 14:59:16 GMT
>
>>
>>1) Everyone whos demoed the system so far says "its neet, but its not
>>as groundbreaking as we were lead to believe".
>
>They're seeing the 1st gen games too! And everybody who's played Mario 64
says
>it's the best game ever made.
>
been spewing, if the first line of titles aren't absolutely perfect, the N64
will be dead in the water. It still makes me laugh every time I see the ads on
KI for "the Nintendo Ultra 64... coming your way in 1995..."
>>2) Most people have already chosen the Saturn or Playstation as their
>>next-gen system. The market is pretty well divided up between the two
>>right now......very few people at this point are still "holding out"
>>for a Nintendo 64....namely because of all the quality stuff coming out
>>for Playstation and Saturn right now.
>>
>Millions of people who own the SNES or Genesis have no Next Gen system.
>That's proven by the fact that there are close to 20 million of those systems
>out there.
>
More numbers. So you're saying that all of the "20 million" Genesis and SNES
consoles owners --minus the ones who have already bought 3DO's, Jaguars,
Saturns, PSX's, or even Neo Geo's or PC's-- are all holding out for the N64? I
doubt it. Even I was looking forward to buying a N64. A year ago. But I, like
many others, just couldn't ignore the Saturn and PSX. I bought a PSX a few
months after it was released. It seemed a high quality system with good
software support, and I haven't been disappointed, no matter what najib from
nancy, france or Dr. Nobody have to say. I may even buy a Saturn at a later
date. Even though there are those, like the Monks, who remain blind to the
progress of available technology, --not vaporware--, most people know better.
By the time the N64 comes out, it may have even more competition, with Sega
and Sony's next systems already in development, as well as the 3DO's much
bally-hooed M2 upgrade.
>>I think that Nintendo has dropped the ball on this one....the "Next
>>Generation" systems are NOT selling like the genesis/snes/nintendo did
>>5 years ago, and I think Nintendo realizes that right now. A 3 system
>>market will only get everyone disgusted....
>
>The current market is much too small for three systems.
You hit the nail right on the head... by the looks of it, Sony and Sega have
already split the market between them. But time will only tell who is right
and who is wrong, unless you ask the Monks, who, along with their powers of
deception seem to be able to predict the future.
> John
>-------------------
>BURN THE CD-ROMs!!! (And fighting games!)
Though CD's have long loading times and are more easily damaged, think of how
cheaply they can be made and how much money Sega and Sony are making with
them. And, unfortunately, fighting titles are some of the biggest selling of
any titles.
>HAIL DVD!
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Cushman O_ _O Freshman Engineer Wanna-be
Cornell University ( ^ ) And Resident Mental Case
^
"When your head's in the clouds, you can't see what you're stepping in..."
"He who laughs last... gets beaten severely..."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drew Cheng
>> This is a mathematical property. Another case in point: JPG's. If I
>> have a 20K Jpeg then I can probably only compress it by 1% or so,
>> usually only 0%. This is an innate property of jpegs and you just
>> cannot compress them any more than they are already compressed.
>all i know is NG said that 8:1 was very possible so take it up with
>them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
That's the problem. When you go quoting questionable stuff from magazines and
then tell others to "take it up with them" when you don't know what the hell
you're talking about, you look as foolish as the source.
I also trimmed the newsgroups header a little bit. That's something else you
should learn how to do, blind Nintendo stooge.
nintendo boy
compression in an N64 game is possible and i beleive them before i would
ever believe some guy who sits at a computer and pretends he knows all.
__________________________________________________________________________
enter my homepage: dedicated to the N64
http://www.ece.orst.edu/~landerer
sign my guestbook and don't forget to vote
for what you think will be then best game
for the N64 when in comes out!! later
you need a frames capable viewer such as Netscape 2.0 :(
__________________________________________________________________________
VNM DEVSUP
Who's played it? Magazines? Magazines can be bought (and i think
Nintendo has a little extra cash). That's a fact.
>> Millions of people who own the SNES or Genesis have no Next Gen system.
That's proven by the fact that there are close to 20 million of those
systems
out there.
These are people who will not pay $300 for a game system. Many of these
people bought their systems later for $100 or less. If you think these
hold-outs will pay $200 for the new N64, think again. Only the real hold
outs are left, N64 has waited so long.
Jayson Cowan
>
> Just some reality checks here:
>
> 1) Everyone whos demoed the system so far says "its neet, but its not
> as groundbreaking as we were lead to believe".
>
> next-gen system. The market is pretty well divided up between the two
> right now......very few people at this point are still "holding out"
> for a Nintendo 64....namely because of all the quality stuff coming out
> for Playstation and Saturn right now.
>
>
> Generation" systems are NOT selling like the genesis/snes/nintendo did
> 5 years ago, and I think Nintendo realizes that right now. A 3 system
> market will only get everyone disgusted....
>
>
>
Why bother going for a Nintendo 64? When you can build in all the 64 bit
power into your cart's like they did with Donkey Kong Country.
k...@newjapan.demon.co.uk
dead so cant record ? umm cost 4 times as much as cdrom and who the
heck is going to write software to fill a dvd ??
k...@newjapan.demon.co.uk
but dont forget this. sega estimate saturn sales in the us
of up to 1 mil units.... and how many 16 bit machines do they estimate
this year ? oh just 1.7 mil and how many units does the industry expect
nintendo to sell in japan this year (providing it comes out before the
all important school holidays i.e. july) ? 3 mil units
so what is special about 3 mil units well it is about the same as
sonys world wide sales of its playstaion since launch ( and dont forget
it came out in good old japan many many months before it did in the usa)
and on the subject of japan sales... are you sega mugs (in the usa and
especially europe ) out there happy paying nearly 2 times the price of a
saturn in japan.
anyway who cares ? as long as the buyer is happy......
k...@newjapan.demon.co.uk
nintendo always realised that !!!! it delayed the n64 it never dropped
the snes it continued to release "new" games with money having been
spent on them doom, yoshi, dc2 and did not ditch the 16bits like sega
they continued to offer their machine and develop for it. and that is why
they held on to 40% of the usa market in 1995 while sega lost share to
sony ciao
Hanson
>fat...@ix.netcom.com (Hanson) wrote:
>>They won't lower the cost of CD's because they won't really sell many
>>more than they do now. Good games will sell anyway, and the market is
>>not large enough to expect significantly higher sales by reducing
>>prices on games. At the same time, would you spend even $30 on a game
>>that reportedly sucks?
>Would you rather buy 5 great games at $70 a piece than 5 as good ones
>for $30 a piece?
their prices any time soon. You're getting into a whole 'nother
argument.
>If there is only one or two games you really like I can see that a
>price difference doesn't really matter, but I think its very wrong to
>assume that price-point isn't important...Nintendo is living proof of
>this..Sacrificing and compromising with the N64 in order to get it
>below $250! The price do matter!!
price point for the initial cost is a far more salient factor than
total cost on down the line. So a $10-$15 difference in games prices
don't matter as much as a $50-$100 difference in the unit and one
game. For instance, the SNES games are more expensive across the
board than the Genesis games, even for the same ports. This hasn't
hindered the popularity of the SNES at all.
>>they make now -- changing prices would only lower their profits.
>Maybe not if they lower them as a competetive move against Nintendo!!
>Nintendo aims mostly at the Kids-market!! And Beleive me a BIG
>argument for Sony, Sega Whatever that would appeal to the average
>parent, could be cost-of-ownership....
>/TJ
crash course in consoles. But if I'm a kid and I want the N64, I'm
not going to go blabbing and tell Mom and Dad that there are cheaper
systems to be had. Imagine a kid with loose lips telling his parents
about a $50 Jaguar -- guess what he'll be getting for Xmas! Now, I've
never worked anywhere where they sold videogames, but during Xmas, you
should hear these desperate parents asking the clerks for consoles and
games -- they just have no clue. Genesis? Playstation? Saturn?
Huh? Nintendo -- I know that one -- that's that MTV videogame, right?
Ask the average person on the street what a Playstation is or a Saturn
-- you'll get blank stares.
Hanson
Patrick Bureau
>square is not leaving nintendo. they have never said they were leaving
>nintendo. acutually in a recent article of "video games" a senior
>official from square said that once the N64 came out with the 64DD they
>would start making exclusives for the N64 and just port a lot of the old
>SNES classics to the 32-bit systems. find a copy and read it.
Excuse me, but as far as I know FFVII will be exclusive to PlayStation
and by looking at the screen shots, it's far better than SNES
classics. But my point is:
1- 2 CDs = 1200Megabytes(or 9600 Megabits if you prefer)
2- The Final Fantasy serie will continue on the PSX.
3- Even with a 64DD, you won't have Cd quality music.
Joe Ottoson
I guess that's why Sega still sold about 2 million Genesis systems last
xmas... They were stupidly pushing the Saturn and burned all their unsold
16 bit systems (sorry if this sounds like I think it does)
SNES sold well, Genesis sold about as well, so Sega didn't really lose out
by putting the Saturn on the market. It's almost a pointless thing to
point out IMO. I doubt you could get away with using the # of Genesis
systems sold as a sign of superiority over the PSx ;->
--
Always keep in mind...
Real faith is objective.
tuffy
: dvd ? oh yes ! will be as big as lazerdisc ! cant wait vcrs must be
: heck is going to write software to fill a dvd ??
Maybe I'm weird, but I actually like the idea of having both the normal and
letterboxed versions of a movie on the same disc. And knowing that a dvd
isn't going to degrade after viewing is nice too. Oh, and not having to
rewind a dvd is another plus. The only thing a dvd can't do that a vcr can
is record, but since I've already got a vcr, that doesn't really matter either.
As for software, I can remember the days when only a few hundred K used
to be enough for just about everything. Nowadays, any computer with
less than a 1 gig hard drive is in serious trouble. It might be tough to
fill a dvd now, but in a couple years you'll probably be seeing software
on multiple dvds. It's only a matter of time.
ryan ryttie
: erik landerholm <land...@ece.orst.edu> wrote:
: >square is not leaving nintendo. they have never said they were leaving
: >nintendo. acutually in a recent article of "video games" a senior
: >official from square said that once the N64 came out with the 64DD they
: >would start making exclusives for the N64 and just port a lot of the old
: >SNES classics to the 32-bit systems. find a copy and read it.
: Excuse me, but as far as I know FFVII will be exclusive to PlayStation
: and by looking at the screen shots, it's far better than SNES
: classics. But my point is:
: 1- 2 CDs = 1200Megabytes(or 9600 Megabits if you prefer)
if you are willing to sit three minutes for a random enemy to appear. to
optimise seek time two cd's could hold a maximum of 256MB (or 2048Mb) and
the only two sytems that support JPEG compression are the Jaguar and the
NU64. that means the psx has to have the images uncompressed and that is
the bulk of every video game ever made since color graphics were invented
: 2- The Final Fantasy serie will continue on the PSX.
uhh so Squaresoft is going to continue their 'we only support one
platform' policy? I hope not because then they couldn't make DOS games
(winslows 2095 crawls(hasn't learned to walk yet))
: 3- Even with a 64DD, you won't have Cd quality music.
says who? audio cd's hold 1/10 the digital information of a cd-rom
that is 64MB = 74 minutes and except for sound FX and vocals MIDI is
better anyway (and the NU64 could do midi as it plays vocals just like in
SQIV if you don't belive me on SQIV set your midi to incorrect settings and
start the game sound, but no music)
and why would you want all the lines read to you if it made the game look
bad and play worse (like digital video, it is ok the first time, but
sitting through 5 minutes of noninteractive plot gets really old the by
the second time and becomes temporary insanity by the 38th time (that is
why I love the escape key and why i hate companies that put video in a
game without either an off switch or an escape button))
in fact I get annoyed at the text in FF III sometimes because it will not
simply skip over a part and can't scroll any faster. and you think voices
would be better (fortunately in SQIV you can click and they will shut up)
also if you get destracted you can't rewind the audio clip, but the text
only scrolls when prompted to scroll (yet another reason to use voice
sparingly)
"Rarely do I listen to fools," Drizzt Do'Urden Drow Ranger (from Sojourn
by R.A. Salvatore)
Magus
>--Dwight Bonney wrote:
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> You obviously havn't taken a look at whats on offer in the latest console systems. They outperform
>> *ANY* IBM PC system. I dont care if you have a 986 with 1Gb of RAM and 120 Terrabytes of HDD
>> space. The fact is that the latest console system do what they do best! They kill anything on a
>> PC platform, and now they are being packed with MPEG video too! Its a fact that they will
>> eventually replace the VCR. PC's are way too limited in what they can do with polygons etc. Take
>> a closer look. Sony Playstation, 3DO, and maybe N64, are pretty awesome machines for pushing
>> around sound & graphics. Lets not even talk about PC sound technology..What a joke!
>>
>> Cya
>> Dwight.
>
> PC's are too limited with polygons - false - just look at all the new 3d accelerator cards coming
>out. Creative Labs 3d-Blaster, Diamond Edge, Matrox MGA, etc. Some I think even use the same
>technology as in the game platforms.
> Many PC's also come with MPEG hardware.
> PC's sound - Extremely good- Have you ever heard Roland's Sound Canvas? Or some other Wavetable
>card? You are probably thinking of either Adlib or PC-speaker beeps and buzzes.
> The major point in my view is that a single PC system can 1) run games, 2) run applications, 3) is
>upgradable to newer technolgy, _while_maintaining_compatability_with_older_software_. The same
>computer that can have great looking, sounding, polygon-rendered, three-dimensional games can run the
>classic games that you still like. And if new technology comes out, you can upgrade, and run all the
>above, and whatever newer games come out with the new technology. The power of the PC is
>_flexibility_.
You've got a good poin there, but you seem to be forgetting
something.....COST! Do you know how much that'll cost to get a
computer to have the same performance as a Saturn, PSX or N64?
Probably around $2000-4000! You'll need a good Pentium CPU, lots of
RAMS, buy the latest 3-D accelerator card (the same price, if not
higher than, the current 32-Bitters)! That's waayyyy to much! I know
it is upgradable, but it COSTS to upgrade! Sure, I think you're one of
the rich types that can afford to upgrade and get the latest
technology, but there are many gamers out there with limited budgets
as myself. Why buy a $3000 computer with all the stuff intact (3-D
card, etc.) to play games when you can buy a $250 Saturn or PSX?
I'm not bashing computers, but it makes more sense to buy the
32-bitters instead of wasting precious money to buy an expensive
computer and all the accessories just to play games? It will be too
much for people without strong computers or none at all, but people
who already have a strong $3000-4000 computer, it will be a good
choice to upgrade.
As it stands, consoles are teh best for 3-D games, arcades, etc.
(Maybe except for simulations and strategies).
>------------------------
>David Eric Powell
>David_...@brown.edu
>------------------------
The supreme and almighty,
MAGUS
Viper
> You've got a good poin there, but you seem to be forgetting
> something.....COST! Do you know how much that'll cost to get a
> computer to have the same performance as a Saturn, PSX or N64?
> Probably around $2000-4000! You'll need a good Pentium CPU, lots of
> RAMS, buy the latest 3-D accelerator card (the same price, if not
> higher than, the current 32-Bitters)! That's waayyyy to much! I know
> it is upgradable, but it COSTS to upgrade! Sure, I think you're one of
> the rich types that can afford to upgrade and get the latest
> technology, but there are many gamers out there with limited budgets
> as myself. Why buy a $3000 computer with all the stuff intact (3-D
> card, etc.) to play games when you can buy a $250 Saturn or PSX?
No, I think you're missing something COST. My P5-90 with a decent video card can run virtually any game you
can buy now. But I didn't buy it to play games. I bought it for engineering purposes. It just so happens
that my computer runs games as well or better than your consol. (MPEG, wavetable sound, better joystick, etc.)
A lot of people on this thread contest that their consols are better because they are cheaper. These people
often also admit that they own a very up to date computer. What is the point of owning a game capable computer
and then buying a consol? I could get a decent 3D accelerator or a better sound card for the price of a new
consol. Essentially, my computer as a gaming platform is FREE because that it not it's primary purpose. Now,
I ask you, what would you rather have? A free gaming system that you pay $35-$50 per game (I never pay full
price) or a $200-$300 gaming consol that you pay up to $70 per game? It's your choice, but free sounds good to
me.
> I'm not bashing computers, but it makes more sense to buy the
> 32-bitters instead of wasting precious money to buy an expensive
> computer and all the accessories just to play games?
I think it's safe to say that no one in their right mind will buy and computer specifically for games.
> It will be too
> much for people without strong computers or none at all, but people
> who already have a strong $3000-4000 computer, it will be a good
> choice to upgrade.
>
> As it stands, consoles are teh best for 3-D games, arcades, etc.
> (Maybe except for simulations and strategies).
Ever played Tie Fighter or X-Wing on your consol? Didn't think so. Old games, but the 3D polygon and texture
mapping is at a level that consols just recently caught up with.
>
> >------------------------
> >David Eric Powell
> >David_...@brown.edu
> >------------------------
>
> The supreme and almighty,
> MAGUS
Someone who does not pretent to be supreme and almighty,
Viper
John F. Lee
ryan ryttie <rry...@ub.d.umn.edu> wrote:
>Patrick Bureau (pbu...@odyssee.net) wrote:
>
>: 1- 2 CDs = 1200Megabytes(or 9600 Megabits if you prefer)
>
>if you are willing to sit three minutes for a random enemy to appear.
I would file that under "utter exaggeration". Ever played Lunar (a Sega
CD game)? Boy, that one second really chaps my ass.
>to
>optimise seek time two cd's could hold a maximum of 256MB (or 2048Mb)
I still haven't found out where this line of bullshit comes from. If you
mean it has to all be on the inner or outer rim, you obviously have no
idea of how fast a CD spins, even in a single-speed drive. If you mean it
needs to be spaced, you've obviously never heard of the evils of disk
fragmentation, in which a disk's seek times are extended when the data on
the disk spreads itself out.
>and
>the only two sytems that support JPEG compression are the Jaguar and the
>NU64.
Boy, are you shoveling it now. JPEG compression isn't a hardware thing,
it's a software thing. By your line of reasoning, the only two systems
that support binary data are the PSX and the Saturn.
>that means the psx has to have the images uncompressed and that is
>the bulk of every video game ever made since color graphics were invented
The bad ones, that is. Been playing a little too much Moron Kombat, eh?
>
>: 2- The Final Fantasy serie will continue on the PSX.
>
>uhh so Squaresoft is going to continue their 'we only support one
>platform' policy?
For starters, the original poster, if you'd care to actually read his
post, said that a) The FF series would continue on the PSX, and b) FF7
will probably be a PSx exclusive.
>
>: 3- Even with a 64DD, you won't have Cd quality music.
>
>says who? audio cd's hold 1/10 the digital information of a cd-rom
>that is 64MB = 74 minutes
No, 640 MB = 74 minutes. 64 MB = 7.4 minutes. But wait, according to the
vapor-specs of the 64DD,, only 45 megs will be ROM, cutting it down to
just over 5 minutes. How about that, something that can play 5 minutes of
CD audio, so long as you don't mind not having a game attached.
>and except for sound FX and vocals MIDI is
>better anyway
Umm... no. Digital recording of the actual music is much better than any
computer simulation. Take it from those of us who've written songs in
MIDI: it's tough to use, expensive to use, and doesn't sound nearly as
good as the original.
>(and the NU64 could do midi as it plays vocals just like in
>SQIV if you don't belive me on SQIV set your midi to incorrect settings and
>start the game sound, but no music)
What? Care to explain your rambliing?
>and why would you want all the lines read to you if it made the game look
>bad and play worse
First of all, I have no idea what you mean by having "all the lines read
to you", and second, what if it doesn't make the game worse?
>(like digital video, it is ok the first time, but
>sitting through 5 minutes of noninteractive plot gets really old the by
>the second time and becomes temporary insanity by the 38th time (that is
>why I love the escape key and why i hate companies that put video in a
>game without either an off switch or an escape button))
True. But developers don't sit around saying, "Wait! It's on a CD!
There's no possible way we can release this without some FMV!"
>in fact I get annoyed at the text in FF III sometimes because it will not
>simply skip over a part and can't scroll any faster. and you think voices
>would be better (fortunately in SQIV you can click and they will shut up)
>also if you get destracted you can't rewind the audio clip, but the text
>only scrolls when prompted to scroll (yet another reason to use voice
>sparingly)
The state of education in America's elementary schools has unfortunately
rendered yet another paragraph unreadable.
>
>"Rarely do I listen to fools," Drizzt Do'Urden Drow Ranger (from Sojourn
>by R.A. Salvatore)
>
Wow! How appropriate! Maybe I should read this book.
--
John F. Lee - God of Ponytails and Bajoran Earrings
"I was not created in the likeness of a fraud." - Red Hot Chili Peppers
"Tell them I said something" - Pancho Villa's Last Words
jfl...@u.washington.edu : http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jfl666
VNM DEVSUP
optimise seek time two cd's could hold a maximum of 256MB (or 2048Mb) and
I'm not sure what you're arguing for (against?) but i don't understand
where you got the idea that at 256MB is a maximum for "optimized" seek
time. You can optimize seek time on any length CD, it has nothing to do
with the length of a CD. The main problem with CD's is seeking data at
all, as it interrupts any real time sequence quite badly. So most games
will have load any immediate data into memory. The long wait times "sit 3
minutes until a random enemy appears" probably comes from loading a lot of
data (i'm not sure, since i don't know what game you're talking about)
from the slower Saturn/Sony cdroms (slower compared to the 8x out there
now). Remember, access speeds are usually measured in milliseconds, i
doubt it would account for a 3 minute wait.
>> says who? audio cd's hold 1/10 the digital information of a cd-rom
that is 64MB = 74 minutes
??? Audio CD's hold 660MB too. The data is just that big for redbook.
>> and except for sound FX and vocals MIDI is better anyway
MIDI limits the instruments you can use severely. An audio track can be
absolutely anything. A lot of PC games (which used MIDI extensively
before) are now using redbook audio on a CD for background music.
Daryel M. Bush
> fat...@ix.netcom.com (Hanson) wrote:
>>They won't lower the cost of CD's because they won't really sell many
>>more than they do now. Good games will sell anyway, and the market is
>>not large enough to expect significantly higher sales by reducing
>>prices on games. At the same time, would you spend even $30 on a game
>>that reportedly sucks?
> Would you rather buy 5 great games at $70 a piece than 5 as good ones
> for $30 a piece?
I would rather have 5 great games, period. I don't buy that many games.
I think Hanson is right. If you gotta have a game, you'll buy it.
Otherwise you can just rent it.
> If there is only one or two games you really like I can see that a
> price difference doesn't really matter, but I think its very wrong to
> assume that price-point isn't important...Nintendo is living proof of
> this..Sacrificing and compromising with the N64 in order to get it
> below $250! The price do matter!!
Yes, but Nintendo is also proof that you can be $15-20 higher than the
competition software-wise and still stay on top. Remember the days
before MK on the Genesis, when the SNES was in the lead? SF2 proved
a lot of people will pay a lot for a hit game (I did). It you want to
go cheap on software, just wait for a year for sales.
>> No, the publishers are quite happy with profit
>>they make now -- changing prices would only lower their profits.
> Maybe not if they lower them as a competetive move against Nintendo!!
> Nintendo aims mostly at the Kids-market!! And Beleive me a BIG
> argument for Sony, Sega Whatever that would appeal to the average
> parent, could be cost-of-ownership....
> /TJ
Yes, but the sticking point right now seems to be getting the parents
to ante up for a new console, not to buy the software. The Saturn and
PSX are beyond most parent's "Christmas-present" range. As far as carts
go, it seems certain that a large number of parents will scratch together
$60 for a "birthday" cartridge. They did for most of Nintendo's other
big hits.
The question will be who can make the system with the most hits and
the cheapest console price. Nintendo is pretty strong here, they
don't have to pay for a CD drive to make their console, and they are
long-time proven hit makers, unlike Sega and Sony.
As far as the older gamers like us are concerned, according to Nintendo
on the average we buy less cartridges than the average kid does. I
wonder if this is true? I only buy about two or three games a year,
brand-new, and rent or wait for sales the rest. How about you?
...Daryel
Daryel M. Bush
> But lets face it The consoles can keep ahead as they easier can adapt
> new technology and be manufactured in higher quantities with hardware
> designed for mass production rather than supporting a general
> architecture etc. I alkso beleive that there will be more and more
> entertationment systems in future incorporating DVD, video and Gaming
> in dedicated machines...
Yeah. I always wondered though that if the "computer appliance" ever
actually happens, will it be good enough for most games? Sure, the
consoles will always be more powerful for the money, but will it matter
if the computer everyone is supposed to own in the future is good enough
for most gamers. Is there a limit to how much processing power effects
gameplay? Well, it hasn't happened yet, maybe...
...Daryel
> Its kinda like a VCR...I would rather buy a separate VCR than to build
> one into my computer...
> Saving the number of boxes isn't always the best solution...
>
> /TJ.
Daryel M. Bush
> bab...@azstarnet.com (John Babich) wrote:
>>>Lets face it CDs hold between 20 and 90 times as much data as than
>>>Nintendo carts supposed to do...and thats the simple way it is...
>
>>Who cares?! (Well, some power hungry people do) But the truth is, it's
>>in the games, and I have had much better experiences with carts than
>>CDs. [...] The N64 looks like every game is going to be great...how's
>>that for a ratio?
>
> Thats a 100% ratio...and if you beleive that, you must be the biggest
> moron on earth! I guess you didn't even see how impressed the people
> who visited Shoshinkai was with Kirby Bowl 64 :-), and I guess your a
> big fan of that Japaneese Chess game they said they will release at
> launch in Japan...
Well see if storage matters when the N64 comes out. It is more powerful
than the other systems, and has all sorts of special graphics features,
so when you put two games side by side I expect the ones on the Nintendo
systems to at least LOOK better. Will people say N64 looks "32bits"
better than a Saturn or a PSX? To be honest they haven't been saying
this from watching the Quicktime movies. :)
Plus, I don't expect a lot when hearing about titles like Monster Dunk,
Robotech Academy, or Crazy Cars (from Titus? They did this game on the
Amiga, ST, and C64 almost a decade ago!!!!) I think John is a maybe a
little starry-eyed. Okay a LOT. 100% great games? With Acclaim and
Gametek making games?!
Then again, I think all the Kirby games have been fun, so shut your
mouth. :)
..Daryel
> /TJ
>> John
Daryel M. Bush
> The speed + storage is why I like the DVDs, think, you could have a Virtua
> Fighter collection, VF1, VFR, VF2, and VF3! On one DVD!
True, but I think it's impossible for a game producer to do this and still
make money. I think any extra DVD space will only be used for audio and
video. As far as four great games in one, yeah they could do this but they
won't unless they're old and not selling alone much anymore, heck CDs are
cheap enough anyway unless it's FMV games we're talking about. Then again,
Myst and Wing Commander sell well, and they're big on FMV... Well, as far
as the Virtua Fighters go you're going to have to buy them one at a time,
heck just swap around four CDs, so what?
...Daryel
Daryel M. Bush
> wal...@aol.com (WalkerP) wrote:
>
>>Nintendos are for people who can't figure out how to work something
>>complicated like a pc.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> I resent that crack being the proud owner of both and a master programmer of
> C++. Of course AOL is for people who have not the brains to get a real ISDN
> server.
>
> Charles Hulen
Hey, I downloaded a bunch of freeware and shareware to play on my roomates'
PC, most didn't run right away. Even if the solution to whatever reason
they didn't work was simple (configuration software looked fine, all memory-
resident whatevers except for memory manager and whatever not loaded), we
didn't want to take the TIME to figure out how to fix it and just erased
them. We are still talking about games, right? How long is it supposed to
take until games on a PC run correctly? Is there usually more to it than
just fiddling with the configuration software? It's frustrating if all
you want to do is play a video game.
...Daryel
Hanson
<snip>
>3- Even with a 64DD, you won't have Cd quality music.
>
If I'm not mistaken, many CD based games don't have redbook audio
either. So the question is, is redbook audio that important to the
games? Good music and sound effects in games are much more dependent
on the people who create them than the equipment they play on. I'd
rank graphics over sound any day, but at the same time, great graphics
are more dependent on the hardware than sound. So sound reproduction
hardware is the least of my concerns. In other words, would you
rather play a great game with (a) great graphics or (b) great sound?
People always talk about "gameplay" and rail against "eye-candy". But
the bottom line is, graphics sell games and deservedly so. Would you
rather play Virtua Fighter or VF Remix? Good graphics *can* make up
for ho hum gameplay (insert your case in point here). And think of
all those people who brag about fps -- is that not part of the
graphics? What does frame rate have to do with sound? Of course
graphics are important. How many times have you heard gamers say that
the gameplay is OK, but the beautiful *graphics* give you the reason
to keep playing. Now switch "graphics" with "sound" -- how many times
have you heard that? Maybe it's because we play on TV's or maybe it's
because were so visually oriented. More probably it's because games
require manipulation of objects on a screen, something that is
accomplished visually. But for whatever reason, we enjoy good
graphics over sound. Until we start playing games with our ears,
redbook audio will not be an important factor in games, IMO.
Hanson
dbw
I like my PSX.
Nuff said. David
Magus
>ooops i missed a bit of your point... "and nintendo realises that now"
>nintendo always realised that !!!! it delayed the n64 it never dropped
>the snes it continued to release "new" games with money having been
>spent on them doom, yoshi, dc2 and did not ditch the 16bits like sega
>they continued to offer their machine and develop for it. and that is why
>they held on to 40% of the usa market in 1995 while sega lost share to
>sony ciao
Excuse me? When did Sega ditched the 16-Bit market? They are still
releasing games for it? X-Pert is due out pretty soon!
Magus
>bab...@azstarnet.com (John Babich) wrote:
>>>Just some reality checks here:
>>>
>>>1) Everyone whos demoed the system so far says "its neet, but its not
>>>as groundbreaking as we were lead to believe".
>>They're seeing the 1st gen games too! And everybody who's played Mario 64 says
>>it's the best game ever made.
>I believe the first statement more than yours. Mags have said, at
>best, that Mario 64 has the potential to be the best game ever made.
>Even that is not saying much because, well, the mags said it. :
Oh jeez! Do you believe everything mags say? You must be a fool. Would
you go jump off a cliff if they tell you to?
>> John
>>-------------------
>>BURN THE CD-ROMs!!! (And fighting games!)
>>HAIL DVD!
>You realize you're just hailing a glorified CD-ROM, right?
>The evening was sultry...
Us...@host.colorado.edu
Hanson
>Buying the Ultra 64 is just idiotic. You willing to pay $400 to get
> the system AND the bulky drive? Plus the cheapest game at $65.
>You're nuts!!!!
>
I'm surprised you didn't end your post with "Nintendo suX!" Besides,
$379 - $400 gets you the console, a game (or maybe 2 if Zelda comes
bundled with the 64DD), and back up RAM. And it makes a big
difference that it won't be all at once -- unless you wait for the
64DD to come out. On Sep 30th or thereabouts, $250 will get you up
and playing Mario 64 out of the box. No extra cost for a back up RAM
or a game or an analog controller. That's lots of bang for the buck,
not "idiotic".
Hanson
Hanson
<snip>
>Excuse me? When did Sega ditched the 16-Bit market? They are still
>releasing games for it? X-Pert is due out pretty soon!
>The supreme and almighty,
>MAGUS
Sega ditched the 16 bit market, but when Xmas '95 rolled around, they
sold out of Genesis units and realized that they could have sold many
more. They had to reconsider the 16 bit market after realizing that
there was money to be made with a 16 million user base no matter what
generation the machine was. And 2 releases in 8 months sounds more
like ditching than wholehearted support to me.
Hanson
Jaliya Jayawardena
>: 1- 2 CDs = 1200Megabytes(or 9600 Megabits if you prefer)
>
3 minutes? Are you using a quarter-speed CD drive. Even
playing games off my 2X CD, there's never pauses longer than a few
seconds. Try not to exaggerate to prove a point.
>
>: 2- The Final Fantasy serie will continue on the PSX.
>
>uhh so Squaresoft is going to continue their 'we only support one
>platform' policy? I hope not because then they couldn't make DOS games
>(winslows 2095 crawls(hasn't learned to walk yet))
Well, there's your open mind. I find Win95 runs games native
to DOS just as fast and Win95 games run a lot faster (Ecco the Dolphin
has smooth scrolling in 640x480!) I hope Square does support Win95:
after all, we won't have to bother with IRQs.
>: 3- Even with a 64DD, you won't have Cd quality music.
>
>says who? audio cd's hold 1/10 the digital information of a cd-rom
>that is 64MB = 74 minutes and except for sound FX and vocals MIDI is
>better anyway (and the NU64 could do midi as it plays vocals just like in
>SQIV if you don't belive me on SQIV set your midi to incorrect settings and
>start the game sound, but no music)
64MB? Try this little equation:
2 bytes (16-bits) x 44100 (samples per sec) x 60 x 74 x 2
(channels)
Comes out to 640MB. Losing the zero means a LOT in this case.
And while I have a wavetable MIDI card, I find that most CD games'
music, composed on sequencers far superior to those you can stuff in
to a PC, still sound better. Besides on CD, if you need a guitar, you
can just record one. Listen to Doom's MIDI on level one, and listen
to Pearl Music's rendition of the same song in Microcosm: trust me
you'll notice a clear difference.
>in fact I get annoyed at the text in FF III sometimes because it will not
>simply skip over a part and can't scroll any faster. and you think voices
>would be better (fortunately in SQIV you can click and they will shut up)
>also if you get destracted you can't rewind the audio clip, but the text
>only scrolls when prompted to scroll (yet another reason to use voice
>sparingly)
These are all design faults of the programmers, not the CD
systems. It seems to me cartridge advocates have only one argument for
carts: speed. Everything else is clearly for CD. But you guys don't
WANT any of this stuff. Sure. And the grapes musta been sour.
Jaliya
ryan ryttie
: In article <4kgiii$i...@news.d.umn.edu>,
: ryan ryttie <rry...@ub.d.umn.edu> wrote:
: >Patrick Bureau (pbu...@odyssee.net) wrote:
: >
: >: 1- 2 CDs = 1200Megabytes(or 9600 Megabits if you prefer)
: >
: >if you are willing to sit three minutes for a random enemy to appear.
: I would file that under "utter exaggeration". Ever played Lunar (a Sega
: CD game)? Boy, that one second really chaps my ass.
Lunar Does not use 650MB my point was if you use 128MB or less the games
will run at nearly acceptable speeds, but a 650MB cd-rom would have
horrible seek times
: >to
: >optimise seek time two cd's could hold a maximum of 256MB (or 2048Mb)
: I still haven't found out where this line of bullshit comes from. If you
: mean it has to all be on the inner or outer rim, you obviously have no
: idea of how fast a CD spins, even in a single-speed drive. If you mean it
: needs to be spaced, you've obviously never heard of the evils of disk
: fragmentation, in which a disk's seek times are extended when the data on
: the disk spreads itself out.
listen up the more files on a HD the bigger the list of files. OK still
with me. my 420MB HD has 6MB dedicated to finding files and I am only
using aroung 300MB true it is DOS, but even video games use a lot of
space to find a file. and the longer it takes to process where the
location of a file is the longer the seek time. so I'll be generous and
say that 128MB only uses 1MB of disk space to find files on a single
speed drive it takes just over 6 seconds to find the last file on that disk
that means a 650MB cd would take almost 30 seconds to find the last file
and the file has not even been transfered into memory yet. that is what I
mean when I say 128MB is as high as any CD-ROM should go
: >and
: >the only two sytems that support JPEG compression are the Jaguar and the
: >NU64.
: Boy, are you shoveling it now. JPEG compression isn't a hardware thing,
: it's a software thing. By your line of reasoning, the only two systems
: that support binary data are the PSX and the Saturn.
ever heard of a viewer? one JPEG image does one hell of a lot of good
without one. (same with machine code to a mechanical toster (pre-digital))
the only two machines that provide the ability to use JPEGs without
having to code a custom viewer/decompressor (which would put a massive
strain on the availibility of RAM) are the NU64 and the Jaguar for any other
machine you have to load drivers into the limited ram wheras the NU64 and
the Jag have hardware support and waste no ram beacause it is in the
system BIOS!!
: >that means the psx has to have the images uncompressed and that is
: >the bulk of every video game ever made since color graphics were invented
: The bad ones, that is. Been playing a little too much Moron Kombat, eh?
in size of disk space everything else is microscopic in size text uses
fonts based on the ASCII char set MIDI uses a sound font to make music
: >
: >: 2- The Final Fantasy serie will continue on the PSX.
: >
: >uhh so Squaresoft is going to continue their 'we only support one
: >platform' policy?
: For starters, the original poster, if you'd care to actually read his
: post, said that a) The FF series would continue on the PSX, and b) FF7
: will probably be a PSx exclusive.
my point is that is the worst thing to come out of Square is their
monosystem loyalty and if they do not stop I will be forced to buy only
used copies of their games (that way they get less money)
: >
: >: 3- Even with a 64DD, you won't have Cd quality music.
: >
: >says who? audio cd's hold 1/10 the digital information of a cd-rom
: >that is 64MB = 74 minutes
: No, 640 MB = 74 minutes. 64 MB = 7.4 minutes. But wait, according to the
: vapor-specs of the 64DD,, only 45 megs will be ROM, cutting it down to
no I said that after subtracting MIDI files and Program files from the
64MB roughly 44MB would remain for JPEGs (sorry you can't follow more
than the past three words you read I guess that you find newspapers and
TV difficult to follow what since their complexity is aimed at elementary
level educations)
: just over 5 minutes. How about that, something that can play 5 minutes of
: CD audio, so long as you don't mind not having a game attached.
: >and except for sound FX and vocals MIDI is
: >better anyway
: Umm... no. Digital recording of the actual music is much better than any
: computer simulation. Take it from those of us who've written songs in
: MIDI: it's tough to use, expensive to use, and doesn't sound nearly as
: good as the original.
then why does Holywood only use 6 musicians for a film instead of the
300+ used in the pre MIDI age (if you don't belive me my Jazz Studies
instructor used to make a living in holywood when the hired whole orchrestras
to do music for films and now one of his friends in the buissiness says that
only a handful of jobs are left)
: >(and the NU64 could do midi as it plays vocals just like in
: >SQIV if you don't belive me on SQIV set your midi to incorrect settings and
: >start the game sound, but no music)
: What? Care to explain your rambliing?
when I first installed Space Quest four it thought I had a different MIDI
board of something and no MIDI would play and there was hardly any sounds
at all. this is the point that even on cd-rom MIDI is used to S_A_V_E space
: >and why would you want all the lines read to you if it made the game look
: >bad and play worse
: First of all, I have no idea what you mean by having "all the lines read
: to you", and second, what if it doesn't make the game worse?
what else would you need CD quality sound for?
: >(like digital video, it is ok the first time, but
: >sitting through 5 minutes of noninteractive plot gets really old the by
: >the second time and becomes temporary insanity by the 38th time (that is
: >why I love the escape key and why i hate companies that put video in a
: >game without either an off switch or an escape button))
: True. But developers don't sit around saying, "Wait! It's on a CD!
: There's no possible way we can release this without some FMV!"
oh REALLY kindy explain the movie on MYST about the making of MYST
(okay the guys who used HyperStudio to make myst are not game developers
by any strech of the imagination, but it is all I can think of now)
: >in fact I get annoyed at the text in FF III sometimes because it will not
: >simply skip over a part and can't scroll any faster. and you think voices
: >would be better (fortunately in SQIV you can click and they will shut up)
: >also if you get destracted you can't rewind the audio clip, but the text
: >only scrolls when prompted to scroll (yet another reason to use voice
: >sparingly)
: The state of education in America's elementary schools has unfortunately
: rendered yet another paragraph unreadable.
Narrator: while playing his copy of FF4 all voice John is in the middle
of watching and listening as he recives vital one time only information
that will allow him to win the game, which he has not saved in the past
two hours, the phone rings
John:NO!
Narrator: relucnantly John picks up the phone, since he is the only one
in the house
telemarketer: Are you the primary resident of this house?
John: yes
Telemarketer: would you be intrested in swiching long distance carriers
to MCI
John: NO!! <slam>
this is an example of what I mean you can't have audio clips instead of
text because in a situation like this it causes much pain and suffering
: >
: >"Rarely do I listen to fools," Drizzt Do'Urden Drow Ranger (from Sojourn
: >by R.A. Salvatore)
: >
: Wow! How appropriate! Maybe I should read this book.
your sarcasm shows, but it is a good book however I recomend you read the
whole set Exile,Sojourn,The Halflings Gem (Dark elf Trilogy) and the six
books that follow
: --
Hanson
>No, I think you're missing something COST. My P5-90 with a decent video card can run virtually any game you
>can buy now. But I didn't buy it to play games. I bought it for engineering purposes. It just so happens
>that my computer runs games as well or better than your consol. (MPEG, wavetable sound, better joystick, etc.)
> A lot of people on this thread contest that their consols are better because they are cheaper. These people
>often also admit that they own a very up to date computer. What is the point of owning a game capable computer
>and then buying a consol? I could get a decent 3D accelerator or a better sound card for the price of a new
>consol. Essentially, my computer as a gaming platform is FREE because that it not it's primary purpose. Now,
>I ask you, what would you rather have? A free gaming system that you pay $35-$50 per game (I never pay full
>price) or a $200-$300 gaming consol that you pay up to $70 per game? It's your choice, but free sounds good to
>me.
>Viper
I think you're missing the point. Perhaps you've never played Square
RPG's or Miyamoto games or even Tekken 2 or Virtual Fighter 2. If you
absolutely don't like them, then stick with the PC. But if you want
to play them, you *have* to buy a console. I guess the debate is
whether or not console games or at least the kind of games consoles do
well are better than games that are optimized on the PC. And BTW, the
PC is not a *free* gaming platform a you claim. If all you wanted was
internet connectivity and engineering programs, why did you have to
add MPEG, wavetable sound, a joystick, 3-D accelerator etc? These
things doubled the cost of your PC *just to play games*. I spent at
least $1000 more than I had to if I didn't take playing games into
consideration. And I don't even have a 3-D accelerator.
Hanson
Richard Caley
jb> They're seeing the 1st gen games too! And everybody who's played
jb> Mario 64 says it's the best game ever made.
Anyone who thinks anything you can do with a video game is `the best
game ever made' is seriously in need of a life.
--
r...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk _O_
|<
Felix Tan
> 1) Everyone whos demoed the system so far says "its neet, but its not
> as groundbreaking as we were lead to believe".
> next-gen system. The market is pretty well divided up between the two
> right now......very few people at this point are still "holding out"
> for a Nintendo 64....namely because of all the quality stuff coming out
> for Playstation and Saturn right now.
>
> I think that Nintendo has dropped the ball on this one....the "Next
> Generation" systems are NOT selling like the genesis/snes/nintendo did
> 5 years ago, and I think Nintendo realizes that right now. A 3 system
> market will only get everyone disgusted....
1) The software is not third generation, not second generation, not even first
generation. Most of the software that had been demoed are betas. The finals
as well as future games will probably be a lot better. Overall, however, this
is a moot point to debate until the N64 is released.
2) Did you ever consider the reason that NG systems are "NOT selling like the
genesis/snes/nintendo 5 years ago" is because the N64 is not out yet? I'm not
pretending to know what will happen, but I think many people ARE holding out
for the N64. You only think that the market is split between SS/PS because,
well, there is no N64, so you don't see too many N64 owners running around.
Felix Tan
ft...@ltan.cais.com
Felix Tan
>Very well said Viper. My feelings exactly. But dont leave out the
>ridiculous prices for console games also. Ive seen them for as high as 70
>dollars. If you shop right for computer games, you'll pay an average of
>45.00 each. I do.
>Sure computers are expensive, but buying games at 60 to 70 dollars
>apiece, I still think youll save buying a computer.
>
> Glenn
Gosh, what a revelation. I have one of my own: I've seen computer games for as
much as $90. If you show right for computer games, you'll pay an average of
$50. I do.
(I'm also one of those who can pick up a used 3 year old game for $10 and be
happy, but I guess this doesn't apply to the nextgen market -- yet.)
Felix Tan
ft...@ltan.cais.com
Felix Tan
Hmm... why do I have a feeling that
a) some people have not heard about the N64's sound hardware
b) have no exposure to tracked / synthesized music
c) will be suprised when the N64 comes out.
Hey people, sure CD music is great, but where do you think it comes from?!?!
Most of what you hear is synthesized somewhere first, recorded on your CD, then
played back on your console. There is very little acoustic music, especially in
the videogame market, and for a good reason: very few vidgame players pay
attention to and can appreciate the delicate nuances of acoustic music while
blasting away cyber-zombies with their laze-guns.
Guess what?
The N64 is a living, breathing synthesizer. 64-bit DSP at 44.1 KHz, 64+
channels, unlimted voices... The N64 will generate above CD quality music, and
since tracked music is stored as notes instead of a huge wave file, it will
take a relatively insignificant amount of space.
Felix Tan
Bluebear <ac...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>doubt it. Even I was looking forward to buying a N64. A year ago. But I, like
>many others, just couldn't ignore the Saturn and PSX. I bought a PSX a few
>months after it was released. It seemed a high quality system with good
>software support, and I haven't been disappointed, no matter what najib from
>nancy, france or Dr. Nobody have to say. I may even buy a Saturn at a later
>date. Even though there are those, like the Monks, who remain blind to the
>progress of available technology, --not vaporware--, most people know better.
Blind? Who is blind? What vaporware? If you ask me, the ads in the newspapers
represent a true commitment by N to release the N64 on such date. I realize if
N backs off of this date, I will look like a complete fool for making that
statement. But consider this: most intelligent market analysts predicted that
N could not handle the earlier release dates set for April. Sure enough, the
April date was delayed because N did not want to repeat Sega's failed market
strategy (high demand+low availibility=pissed consumers, pissed retailers).
If you believe N64 is vapor(hard)ware, then you're the blind fool. As much as
you may disagree with N's decisions in the market, you cannot believe that N
would allow such a mistake if you are realistic in anyway.
>By the time the N64 comes out, it may have even more competition, with Sega
>and Sony's next systems already in development, as well as the 3DO's much
>bally-hooed M2 upgrade.
>
>>>I think that Nintendo has dropped the ball on this one....the "Next
>>>Generation" systems are NOT selling like the genesis/snes/nintendo did
>>>5 years ago, and I think Nintendo realizes that right now. A 3 system
>>>market will only get everyone disgusted....
>>
>>The current market is much too small for three systems.
>
>You hit the nail right on the head... by the looks of it, Sony and Sega have
>already split the market between them. But time will only tell who is right
>and who is wrong, unless you ask the Monks, who, along with their powers of
>deception seem to be able to predict the future.
HYPOCRITE!
>
>> John
>>-------------------
>>BURN THE CD-ROMs!!! (And fighting games!)
>
>Though CD's have long loading times and are more easily damaged, think of how
>cheaply they can be made and how much money Sega and Sony are making with
>them. And, unfortunately, fighting titles are some of the biggest selling of
>any titles.
Well, the N64's carts will be able to handle the fighting titles better.
BTW...
I don't want this to sound like a challenge (I suppose it is, though :) ), but
is there any antiN64 argument besides the CD vs. cartridge issue? Or is that
the only (perceived) evil you have come up with?
Oh wait... there's the fact that N64 is about 1 year late :).
Anything else?
VNM DEVSUP
strategy (high demand+low availibility=pissed consumers, pissed
retailers).
But they're doing worse. High demand+NO availability=really pissed
consumers, fed up retailers.
>> Well, the N64's carts will be able to handle the fighting titles
better.
Not sure of that. You still have to load the data from the cart to
memory, because the data on a cart is accessed faster than a CD-ROM, but
is still WAY slower than system memory. Even a 1 second access would
disrupt a fighting game, where move tolerance is often measured in 1/60 of
a second (at least in titles like VF2).
It would seem to be better for adventure games, so you can go from room to
room without the long CD access/transfer wait, but adventure/RPG
developers like Square don't want to be limited to 32megs (that's pretty
small, i can understand why).
>> BTW...I don't want this to sound like a challenge (I suppose it is,
though :) ), but is there any antiN64 argument besides the CD vs.
cartridge issue?
As a developer, i would hate to work with Nintendo. I still remember some
of our games being rejected for a "screen flicker." We asked what the
hell they meant, and they send back us a video tape; while the game was
loading, a flash occurred on screen for 1 frame of the videotape. You
couldn't see it without a VCR. Later on, we were rejected because when
knights in our game slashed each other little 1 or 2 pixel splats of blood
came out. OK fine. 1 week later, Street Fighter 2 came out with blood
everywhere. Hypocrites. They're basically a pain in the ass. With SNES
stuff, if you get rejected and re-submit you go to the "end-of-the line"
so you could be waiting a month during peak periods. Do you know how many
sales you lose in a month near Christmas time? It can mean the difference
between a profit and a loss for some games. If they're going to lighten
up with the N64 then i'm all for them.
Sam67
what system is faster/stronger/sexier?
Let's say that your N64/Saturn/PSX IS better. Good for you.
Let's say that your N64/Saturn/PSX sucks. Good for you!!!
They are consumer products! Who cares?? Buy the one you like!
Hell, buy them all.
Then maybe we can talk about the games again.
_________________________________________________________
Sa...@aol.com
Edward Chun-Kuen Jang
: dvd ? oh yes ! will be as big as lazerdisc ! cant wait vcrs must be
: dead so cant record ? umm cost 4 times as much as cdrom and who the
: heck is going to write software to fill a dvd ??
hmm, he's got a point...a game will take 2 years to develop!
Hanson
Actually, too little was said. How can you be "too old" for Mario?
Maybe you're "too old" for videogames in general? Does every game you
play have to have scantily clad women, sex talk, or blood? Is that
your idea of "maturity"? I can see you being "too old" for a game
because it has no challenge (e.g. Scooby Doo for Genesis or Pico
games), but how can you be too old for a game that follows in the
footsteps of some of the most popular and ingenious games ever
developed? You're attitude is no different from people who think that
videogames are only for kids. Having fun and the means of deriving
said fun have no age constraints. I'm looking forward to having tons
of fun with Mario 64, old fart as I am. "Too old"? Sorry, you sound
"too close-minded" to me. I mean, exactly what are your complaints
with Mario? More to the point, why exactly it is immature to play
Mario?
Hanson
Peter Ronaszeki
>I don't think so.I am to old for Mario.
>I like my PSX.
>Nuff said. David
Perfectly stated. That about sums up the whole issue I think.
/--------------------------------------------------------\
DEEP | Peter Ronaszeki (pred...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au) |BABYLON
SPACE 9|--------------------------------------------------------| - 5 -
The Way| Be sure to check out The Entertainment Nexus: |
of the | http://www.uwa.edu.au/student/predator/Welcome.html | JAMES
Warrior|--------------------------------------------------------|CAMERON
| * Terry Farrell * Ayukawa Madoka * Talisa Soto * |
+-------+--------------------------------------------------------+-------+
|"I'm the one that's going to have to die when it's time for me to die, |
| so let me live my life, the way I want to." - Jimi Hendrix (If 6 was 9)|
|---------------------------+--------------------------------------------|
| Waiting for 'Predator 3' | Fave PlayStation Games: Wipeout, Tekken 2 |
+---------------------------+--------------------------------------------+
Hanson
>Garret Thomson wrote:
>
>> One question: why is N64 crap? Its clearly superior (and will be cheaper)
>> than anything else out on the market..... doesnt that speak for itself?
> Cheaper? Hmm. $200 for a Saturn and probably a Playstation in the
>near future, $350-$450 for an N64 (I don't even consider the N64 without
>the 64DD to be a system at all) yep, it's cheaper alright. (and the
>64dd disks are cheaper as well)
Well, I don't consider a PSX to be a system without a RAM card, a
*game* (or possibly two) and, let's say, an analog controller (is
there even going to be one?). Are we close now? How about a Saturn
with a game and the planned analog controller? I think were getting
warm now. The N64 will initially be sold without the 64DD available.
But you can still play games on it. The N64 is indeed a system by
itself. And it will come with a game and a RAM card. I'm surprised
you didn't mention the $200 games for the N64 while you were at it.
On a related note, I suspect that the 64DD will come with Zelda 64 as
a pack-in priced at $149. I say this because a pack-in game would be
the only way to achieve enough market penetration for the 64DD to make
it a viable platform for games. Understand -- this is *rampant*
speculation on my part. It in no way pretends to be fact.
Hanson
k...@newjapan.demon.co.uk
those lovely new 3d cards that namco (nec) and sega are writing for
will one cost only a little less than a consule (and screw 32bit
its nearly dead look at williams at 3e 4 n64, 2 sony but only one
for the "sat-on" you need to shift 100,000 units of a game to be in the
dosh and segas only just sold a few more machines what you going to do
sell to 25% of all non japanese users. like yeah) but any how back to
pcs those 3d card people are going to make the software writers pay
a license fee (like they do with consules) and guess what they become
the same price only the nec/namco wont work very well on anything less
than a 133m pent thing (cost today?) and then if they dont sell more than
2mil cards how can they compete with a sony base of 3m world wide sales
and nintendos n64 projected sales of 3m by end of this year....
Hanson
>Viper <vi...@mcn.net> wrote:
>>Interesting, you seriously don't think that I can do useful things and
>>play games at the same time? I'll tell you that I do on a regular basis
>>run Warcraft II through Windows 95 while I'm printing or
>>downloading/uploading large files.
>Wow you can start a background job (=batch) that runs while you are
>playing games...Well if you consider it to be "work" to WAIT out a
>batch-job...Then I guess yours and mine definiton of work is
>different...I guess you go to work start a printout of a powerpoint
>presentation at 8 oclock...drink coffe and play "warcraft" and looks
>if its finished at 5 pm, and then consider it a full day of work
><grin>...
Hee hee... gee TJ, can I get a job like that? And Viper, this post
was touched off because you named 5 different *GAMES* that you claimed
you could play at the same time (as if you didn't realize that saying
so was overstated and ludicrous). Now you try to make it a multi-
tasking issue. Mutli-tasking is a non-issue in this debate. Of
course the PC can do many more things than a console. But can it play
better games? That's the point. Stick to it.
Hanson
ryan ryttie
: John F. Lee (jfl...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
: : In article <4kgiii$i...@news.d.umn.edu>,
: : ryan ryttie <rry...@ub.d.umn.edu> wrote:
: : >Patrick Bureau (pbu...@odyssee.net) wrote:
: : >
(snipped by the all powerful Delete Key, "I am Delete the
destroyer of Words!")
: : >
: : >: 3- Even with a 64DD, you won't have Cd quality music.
: : >
::focusing on the fourth demension I become one with it and travel to
when I first posted my reply to EVERYONE WILL BUY NINTENDO 64::
using a cloth moistened with chloroform I carefully put my past self to
sleep. then without hesitation I rewrite this portion of the post:
: : >says who? audio cd's hold 1/10 the digital information of a cd-rom
: : >that is 64MB = 74 minutes
to read:
says who? redbook audio may take 660MB for 74 minutes but that is in
stereo with 44100Hz in sampling which means sound waves only bats can
hear are being fully recorded. talk about a waste of bandwidth. when
playing aroung with sampling rates I found that there is no noticable
difference between 28665Hz and 44100Hz. the only differance was the size
of the sound file (I could notice a difference in 22050Hz). and since you
want the last battle to be the most memorable all the rest of the SFX
could be Monoaural which saves a lot of space (and makes the last battle
seem that much better) and if you are using voice is should be a crime to
waste bandwidth by placing voice tracks in stereo.
(BTW the whole 1/10th thing was a result of confusion on my part. CD-ROMs
because not even a single 1 or 0 can be wrong take ten times as long to
burn as Audio CDs)
(snipped by the all powerful Delete Key, "I am Delete the
destroyer of Words!")
"My mind said that I should proceed with caution," from Sold <if I
remembered the artist his name would be here>
John F. Lee
ryan ryttie <rry...@ub.d.umn.edu> wrote:
>
>listen up the more files on a HD the bigger the list of files. OK still
>with me. my 420MB HD has 6MB dedicated to finding files and I am only
>using aroung 300MB true it is DOS, but even video games use a lot of
>space to find a file. and the longer it takes to process where the
>location of a file is the longer the seek time. so I'll be generous and
In case you were interested, the increase in seek time due to a longer
list of files is infinitestimal. And, by that line of reasoning, such a
malady would occur regerdless of the medium. Carts, CDs, either way.
>
>ever heard of a viewer? one JPEG image does one hell of a lot of good
>without one. (same with machine code to a mechanical toster (pre-digital))
Um... software? JPEG viewers are software.
>the only two machines that provide the ability to use JPEGs without
>having to code a custom viewer/decompressor (which would put a massive
>strain on the availibility of RAM) are the NU64 and the Jaguar for any other
>machine you have to load drivers into the limited ram
And how much RAM do you suppose a JPEG viewer takes? Very little. On a
machine with a scant 4 megs of RAM, I am able to run X-windows, NCSA
telnet (3), Netscape 2.0.1, Netrek, and XV at the same time. When I run
all of the stuff besides XV and Netscape, it runs fine, I add Netscape,
and a pretty little system diagnostic tells me that I have only 1024 KB of
RAM left. Then, if I run XV, and run the system diagnostic, RAM
available: 988 KB. Whoo.. terrible strain.
>wheras the NU64 and
>the Jag have hardware support and waste no ram beacause it is in the
>system BIOS!!
Because it's in the system BIOS? Regardless of its source, it will still
have to be loaded into RAM.
>
>my point is that is the worst thing to come out of Square is their
>monosystem loyalty and if they do not stop I will be forced to buy only
>used copies of their games (that way they get less money)
They have limited buyers. (<5 million in North America) In order to turn
a decent profit, they need a decent profit margin. In order to get a
decent profit margin on N64 carts, they would have to sell their games for
$150-200. They're planning on releasing FF7 for less than $60.
>
>: >
>: >: 3- Even with a 64DD, you won't have Cd quality music.
>: >
>: >says who? audio cd's hold 1/10 the digital information of a cd-rom
>: >that is 64MB = 74 minutes
>
>: No, 640 MB = 74 minutes. 64 MB = 7.4 minutes. But wait, according to the
>: vapor-specs of the 64DD,, only 45 megs will be ROM, cutting it down to
>
>no I said that after subtracting MIDI files and Program files from the
>64MB roughly 44MB would remain for JPEGs
Read it again:
>: >says who? audio cd's hold 1/10 the digital information of a cd-rom
>: >that is 64MB = 74 minutes
You said, quite plainly, that 64 MB will hold a CD's worth of audio.
>: >and except for sound FX and vocals MIDI is
>: >better anyway
>
>: Umm... no. Digital recording of the actual music is much better than any
>: computer simulation. Take it from those of us who've written songs in
>: MIDI: it's tough to use, expensive to use, and doesn't sound nearly as
>: good as the original.
>
>then why does Holywood only use 6 musicians for a film instead of the
>300+ used in the pre MIDI age
Price. Imagine the payroll. On the other hand, using previously-made
music (something that's been happening quite a bit in Hollywood lately,
even with enhanced MIDI) costs only a royalty. Plus, MIDI works in film
because they have the equipment to play it with decent sounds, then record
that digitally. That's not playing MIDI, that's recording MIDI. Playing
MIDI, on the other hand, will be severely limited by the sound equipment
used. Let's see, it takes several million dollars to get the equipment
that'll make it sound almost as good as a live recording, and you're
saying it'll sound better than live recordings on a pice of sound
equipment that'll be built in on a $250 computer?
>
>: >(and the NU64 could do midi as it plays vocals just like in
>: >SQIV if you don't belive me on SQIV set your midi to incorrect settings and
>: >start the game sound, but no music)
>
>: What? Care to explain your rambliing?
>
>when I first installed Space Quest four it thought I had a different MIDI
>board of something and no MIDI would play and there was hardly any sounds
>at all. this is the point that even on cd-rom MIDI is used to S_A_V_E space
But you earlier claimed that only 128MB of a CD is actually used. So why
would they want to S_A_V_E space, when they could use the unused tracks to
make it S_O_U_N_D better?
>
>: >and why would you want all the lines read to you if it made the game look
>: >bad and play worse
>
>: First of all, I have no idea what you mean by having "all the lines read
>: to you", and second, what if it doesn't make the game worse?
>
>what else would you need CD quality sound for?
You're avoiding my question. Or are you having a problem reading past the
first three words?
>
>: True. But developers don't sit around saying, "Wait! It's on a CD!
>: There's no possible way we can release this without some FMV!"
>
>oh REALLY kindy explain the movie on MYST about the making of MYST
>(okay the guys who used HyperStudio to make myst are not game developers
>by any strech of the imagination, but it is all I can think of now)
Oh, excuse me. Faux pas. I meant _good_ developers. Which means
Ack-lame, HyperStudio, Digital Pictures, and the other proponents of
non-interactive interactivity get the boot, while we talk about developers
such as, say, Electronic Arts? Rare? How about, dare I say..... Square?
>
>Narrator: while playing his copy of FF4 all voice John is in the middle
<snip>
>John: NO!! <slam>
Oh, I see. Thanks for clearing that up. And I fully agree. Despite my
liking for Working Designs, their cut-scenes suffer from that problem, as
does the Sega CD version of Sierra's Willy Beamish, especially the
Narrator, who trails off after the first few words.
Danny Kusters
Do like me; get 'em both!! Get a job or something and you can
easily buy (almost) every system you want! Or does the
majority of you newsgroup readers have to go to daddy to beg
for the money?
My psx's keeping me busy 'till the N64!
Grtx, Ryu
------------------------------------------------------------
"I am power made flesh.
feel how week you truly are!"
-Akuma, Street Fighter Alpha
Ryu's homepage: http://www.cuci.nl/~dannyku/index.htm
email: dan...@cuci.nl
General interests:
Nintendo 64, PlayStation, Neo Geo, pc, snes
******************************************************
If you think you're a SF grandmaster, come challenge
me and lose!!! All SF2+ versions available.
Leave mail if interested. I'm living in Limburg, NL
******************************************************
Jeffrey Paul Jarlett
Because some people consider buying both a waste of money.
For example, if I had both 32-bit consoles, and could buy any game I wanted,
I still would have under 1/2 a dozen games.
--
Come see Tsubame's home page at http:www4.ncsu.edu/~jpjarlet/www/tsubame.html
free...@earthlink.net
> >Though CD's have long loading times and are more easily damaged, think
of how
> >cheaply they can be made and how much money Sega and Sony are making with
> >them. And, unfortunately, fighting titles are some of the biggest selling of
> >any titles.
>
> Well, the N64's carts will be able to handle the fighting titles better.
>
> BTW...
> I don't want this to sound like a challenge (I suppose it is, though :) ), but
> is there any antiN64 argument besides the CD vs. cartridge issue? Or is that
> the only (perceived) evil you have come up with?
>
> Oh wait... there's the fact that N64 is about 1 year late :).
How about Nintendo has lost the edge that it used to have. Let me
see....When the N64 comes out, we get Mario, Pilotwings, and Zelda among
others. Does this sound familar? How about the fact that the N64 will
cost more money then the rest? You have to buy a System, another
controller, the Bulky Drive, and(I'm not sure about this one, only heard
about it) some type of device to keep it from overheating! Now,
Lessee....that's well over $450! Boy, that's damn well cheap, huh? By
that time, Sega(And probably Sony) will have their systems down to
$200!!! Now THAT'S cheap!
Let's talk about Fighting games. True, Carts probably can do better...or
can they? There is barely ANY loading time in Tekken 2. All the fighters
have AT THE MOST about 8 seconds. What, can't wait that long? Oh, and
CD's have better sound quality too...
...And then there's who OWNS what. Sega has VF, and Namco has Tekken.
No, Sony doesn't own Tekken, but it is quite doubtful you will ever see it
on the N64. Namco has started making games with the PS hardware as
well(Soul Edge). What does Nintendo get? (Heh) Killer Instinct. Gag me!
You might think about Capcom or SNK...but they make SS and PS games. Too bad.
Oh yeah, CD's are cheaper than the carts. When the N64 comes out, expect
to see games in the $70-99 price range. (I'm doubting the $99 mind you,
but Who knows since Japan is selling them for that much) You will be
seeing many SS and PS CD's for about $40(You already do, anyway, but...)
Please note that I am not against Nintendo, I am simply disgusted right
now with what they are doing.
Lee
free...@earthlink.net
(Richard Caley) wrote:
Really! If Mario 64(at 50% complete) is the best game ever made, then
that's a damn shame for the whole industry! Give it up already! The PS
and Saturn are NOT the 3D0!!!!!
If I want to play cute 'lil side scrollers, I'll go play Rayman or
something. My faves have always been Sonic and Mega Man anyhow(And I only
got a Nomad last year)
Lee
Bluebear
>Bluebear <ac...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>>doubt it. Even I was looking forward to buying a N64. A year ago. But I,
like
>>many others, just couldn't ignore the Saturn and PSX. I bought a PSX a few
>>months after it was released. It seemed a high quality system with good
>>software support, and I haven't been disappointed, no matter what najib from
>>nancy, france or Dr. Nobody have to say. I may even buy a Saturn at a later
>>date. Even though there are those, like the Monks, who remain blind to the
>>progress of available technology, --not vaporware--, most people know
better.
>
>Blind? Who is blind? What vaporware?
Sorry, I used the wrong word. Would you prefer the term "currently unavailable
next-generation hardware"?
>If you ask me, the ads in the newspapers
>represent a true commitment by N to release the N64 on such date. I realize
if
>N backs off of this date, I will look like a complete fool for making that
>statement.
So would anyone attempting predict Nintendo's actions in any way, shape or
form. You aren't alone.
>But consider this: most intelligent market analysts predicted that
>N could not handle the earlier release dates set for April.
Most intelligent market analysts also predicted that Black Monday would never
happen. It did. Nobody's perfect.
>Sure enough, the
>April date was delayed because N did not want to repeat Sega's failed market
>strategy (high demand+low availibility=pissed consumers, pissed retailers).
>
>If you believe N64 is vapor(hard)ware, then you're the blind fool. As much as
>you may disagree with N's decisions in the market, you cannot believe that N
>would allow such a mistake if you are realistic in anyway.
>
As a said, I used the wrong term. The N64 is being developed, and is not just
a rumor. I, unfortunately, have not played one yet. And mistakes? Everybody
makes them, including Nintendo. I can only think of two words... Virtu... ah,
well, I think you know the rest. And that? That's a fact.
>>By the time the N64 comes out, it may have even more competition, with Sega
>>and Sony's next systems already in development, as well as the 3DO's much
>>bally-hooed M2 upgrade.
>>
>>>>I think that Nintendo has dropped the ball on this one....the "Next
>>>>Generation" systems are NOT selling like the genesis/snes/nintendo did
>>>>5 years ago, and I think Nintendo realizes that right now. A 3 system
>>>>market will only get everyone disgusted....
>>>
>>>The current market is much too small for three systems.
>>
>>You hit the nail right on the head... by the looks of it, Sony and Sega have
>>already split the market between them. But time will only tell who is right
>>and who is wrong, unless you ask the Monks, who, along with their powers of
>>deception seem to be able to predict the future.
>
>HYPOCRITE!
>
Okay, this one you'll have to point out to me... maybe I'm just an
idiot. Four "next-gen" systems that I can think of have been released within
the last two-three years (but I'm not sure exactly when the Jaguar was
released): The 3DO, Jaguar, PSX, and Saturn. The common factor between them is
that they all represented a jump ahead of the last generation of systems. As
we all know, the 3DO and Jaguar have had limited success when compared to the
other two, leaving two systems to divide the "market" between them.
I stated that when the N64 comes out (a date no-one knows FOR SURE
yet) they MAY have more competition in the form of the M2, and Sega and Sony's
newest systems (which have unreleased launch dates) or some other surprise
system. Unfortunately, Nintendo waited or was forced to wait too long to be
considered in the now two-horse system race, yet no other 64-bit or "4th-gen"
system will be released concurrently with it later this year, which will force
the N64 into competition with the PSX and Saturn until another 4th-gen system
is released, but until then, it will be a market in and of itself. It's just
another facet of our crazy economy.. when the N64 is released, I believe that
people will perceive it (for fear of inflating any egos) to be in a "league of
its own", or an upgrade, rather than direct competition, in a sense. It will
draw sales from both Saturn and PSX, just like the SNES and Genesis drew
players in near-equal numbers away from the earlier systems. When the second,
third, and fourth 4th-gen systems are released, consumers will then look at
those four side-by-side, and determine which is better for them, just as
people today continue to do with the Saturn/PSX, and inevitably, in my
opinion, to take from Highlander "there can be only two." Unfortunately for
any other 4th-gen systems, including the new PSX's and Sega systems, Nintendo
will have the same lead over the competition that the Saturn had over the
PSX... the question is whether or not Nintendo can sustain the lead.
That is what I refer to when I say "two system market." I think that
the 4th-gen systems will form their own market, and two will show prominence
in that market, just as the Nintendo/Master System did in the eighties, just
as the SNES/Genesis continue to do in a limited from, and just as the PSX and
Saturn also continue to do. The term "market" is subjective... one could state
that there is an nine "entertainment system" market in America now, IF you
consider Macs/PC's/Game Gear/Game Boy/Saturn/PSX/SNES/Genesis/NES, but it's
obvious that each pair of these (except of course the NES) are in their own
domains.
I then said Sega and Sony have currently split the market between
them. Maybe I should have said "their" market or the "32-bit-technology
market", but the fact remains... that's what the Saturn and PSX have done. Do
you deny this?
Like I said, all of this is my opinion. I base it on releases of the
many systems during the last 10-15 years, and we have seen the emergent
dominance of two systems in each "generation" of hardware. If I am a hypocrite
for stating an opinion, I guess I must be a hypocrite.
Then again, if it took me that long to defend myself, maybe I really
am wrong... :)
>>>
>>>> John
>>>>-------------------
>>>>BURN THE CD-ROMs!!! (And fighting games!)
>>>
>>>Though CD's have long loading times and are more easily damaged, think of
how
>>>cheaply they can be made and how much money Sega and Sony are making with
>>>them. And, unfortunately, fighting titles are some of the biggest selling
of
>>>any titles.
>>
>Well, the N64's carts will be able to handle the fighting titles better.
>
Gee, you fell for the whole "future prediction" thing hook, line, and
rod, didn't you? How many of those superior fighting games have you played? I
don't know enough about the N64's insides to know either way. Maybe they will
have better fighting games (whatever you decide "better" means... faster,
prettier, more realistic, more blood...), but the point is we DON'T KNOW that
yet. Unless you ask you-know-who...
>BTW...
>I don't want this to sound like a challenge (I suppose it is, though :) ),
but
>is there any antiN64 argument besides the CD vs. cartridge issue? Or is that
>the only (perceived) evil you have come up with?
>
Number one, I didn't "come up" with CD vs. cartridge debate. I think
it began with some mindless post about the inferiority of CD's as opposed to
carts, merely because they could be easily damaged, and because of their often
slow loading time, a problem Sega attempted to remedy by adding a cart to the
KOF '95 game. I am not anti-N64 because of anything to do with the manufacture
of game software, nor have I ever bashed cart-based systems. The SNES seemed
to do pretty damn well with carts, and were still apparently able to turn a
profit, regardless of higher cart manufacturing costs.
>Oh wait... there's the fact that N64 is about 1 year late :).
I've never stated that I think that the N64 will be a "bad" system, or
anything close. I admit, I did repeat someone's statement that some insiders
felt that the N64 would not be the "end-all-be-all of gaming", but if I like
the system, I'll buy it. I guess that's all it really comes down to. I may
even buy a Saturn sometime soon, if I get the money (I really really like VF2
and Sega Rally... they're system sellers to me). I do happen to believe,
however, that while Nintendo's time management may well be the only negative
thing I have to say against the N64, it may well be the biggest deciding
factor concerning its success.
>
>Anything else?
Nope. That's my case, and I'm open to any rebuttal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Cushman O_ _O Freshman Engineer Wanna-be
Cornell University ( ^ ) And Resident Mental Case
^
"When your head's in the clouds, you can't see what you're stepping in..."
"He who laughs last... gets beaten severely..."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Coggburn
you can have a cd or catridge stocked to its limits but still if the games sucks
so will the system .
Hanson
>How about Nintendo has lost the edge that it used to have. Let me
>see....When the N64 comes out, we get Mario, Pilotwings, and Zelda among
>others. Does this sound familar? How about the fact that the N64 will
>cost more money then the rest? You have to buy a System, another
>controller, the Bulky Drive, and(I'm not sure about this one, only heard
>about it) some type of device to keep it from overheating! Now,
>Lessee....that's well over $450! Boy, that's damn well cheap, huh? By
>that time, Sega(And probably Sony) will have their systems down to
>$200!!! Now THAT'S cheap!
What are you implying -- that a $200 Saturn or PSX comes with two
controllers and a game? Didn't you notice the contradictions in your
arguments? And furthermore, you don't have to buy the 64DD to play
games. In fact you won't be able to buy one because it won't be out
when the N64 comes out.
>Let's talk about Fighting games. True, Carts probably can do better...or
>can they? There is barely ANY loading time in Tekken 2. All the fighters
>have AT THE MOST about 8 seconds. What, can't wait that long? Oh, and
>CD's have better sound quality too...
I assume then you've heard the N64? Or are you talking out of your...
as far as I'm concerned, good sound is a more of a function of the
software over the hardware than graphics are.
>...And then there's who OWNS what. Sega has VF, and Namco has Tekken.
>No, Sony doesn't own Tekken, but it is quite doubtful you will ever see it
>on the N64. Namco has started making games with the PS hardware as
>well(Soul Edge). What does Nintendo get? (Heh) Killer Instinct. Gag me!
Actually, 3-D fighting games are what the PSX and Saturn excel at.
>You might think about Capcom or SNK...but they make SS and PS games. Too bad.
>
>Oh yeah, CD's are cheaper than the carts. When the N64 comes out, expect
>to see games in the $70-99 price range. (I'm doubting the $99 mind you,
>but Who knows since Japan is selling them for that much) You will be
>seeing many SS and PS CD's for about $40(You already do, anyway, but...)
Many? Okay. List them. G'head.
>Please note that I am not against Nintendo, I am simply disgusted right
>now with what they are doing.
>
>Lee
What does this mean? You don't like what Nintendo is doing but you'll
buy the N64 anyway? You sound like you want the N64 but swallowed the
32-bit party line regarding the N64. You want to look cool by arguing
against the N64 but will be the first in line to get one. My, we like
our DHGF, don't we?
Hanson
James Wood
On 12 Apr 1996, Peter Ronaszeki wrote:
> dbw <d...@netsrq.com> writes:
>
> >I don't think so.I am to old for Mario.
> >I like my PSX.
> >Nuff said. David
>
> Perfectly stated. That about sums up the whole issue I think.
I don't think so. While I am a mature adult, I don't have to try to live
up to any standards of maturity when it comes to video games. In fact,
they are one of the few pleasures that remain from my earlier years and I
enjoy them just as much. I think when I get to the point that I have to
consider myself "too old for Mario" then perhaps one foot's in the grave
and I should give up all video games. Mario games are indeed silly, but
it's part of the fun. Long live the Mario games.
James
pasquale demaio
: Blind? Who is blind? What vaporware? If you ask me, the ads in the newspapers
: represent a true commitment by N to release the N64 on such date. I realize if
: N backs off of this date, I will look like a complete fool for making that
: N could not handle the earlier release dates set for April. Sure enough, the
I'm pretty confindent it will come out on time (if you can call it
that.) Even Mech Warrior 3 had to come out someday!
: April date was delayed because N did not want to repeat Sega's failed market
: strategy (high demand+low availibility=pissed consumers, pissed retailers).
I think the proper phrasing would be "low demand+lowavailability= ambivalent
consumers, pissed retailers."
: If you believe N64 is vapor(hard)ware, then you're the blind fool. As much as
: you may disagree with N's decisions in the market, you cannot believe that N
: would allow such a mistake if you are realistic in anyway.
Well it will come out, and it will certainly be a sucess in Japan. and
it will be a sucess in america, if they can get the price low enough to
sell it to kids (parents of kids) 250 isn't low enough.
: >By the time the N64 comes out, it may have even more competition, with Sega
: >and Sony's next systems already in development, as well as the 3DO's much
: >bally-hooed M2 upgrade.
If M2 doesn't have something increadible at E3 they lost anyhope of
getting me on the band wagon. I'll certainly beable to wait for the
next PSX if they can't get a system to market by mid 97.
: Well, the N64's carts will be able to handle the fighting titles better.
Yes and no. I think a cart CD mix is certainly the best, but too
expensive, I think. Carts can't support the FMV,sound, extra graphics.
but you've heard it all before, I doubt I'll be the one to change your
mind. However you should be aware of the fact that carts couldn't do a
quality version of Resident evil, which is the type of game I bought a
playstation for.
: BTW...
: I don't want this to sound like a challenge (I suppose it is, though :) ), but
: is there any antiN64 argument besides the CD vs. cartridge issue? Or is that
: the only (perceived) evil you have come up with?
Yes. The main reason to avoid N64 for me, is not a hardware issue. I
just don't care for nintendos games. They seem to be aimed directly at
children. I'm not a child. I like games with adult content (in every
sense) I know I won't see this type of game on nintendo's system. I
would really like to play the Star Wars games (I loved Xwing) but the
other games don't make me think "Hey I'm missing out". I'm sure some of
them will be great, but Mario doesn't attracted me like it did when I
was 11. That isn't an attack on Nintendo. I just isn't what I want.
Sony designed, programed and marketed a system for _me_, and I like it.
It is aimed right at my demographic, and I guess I'm a pitiful sheep,
but I like it. I like playing NFS, Res.Evil, Wipeout and X-com, and
tekken. In the arcade I like Playing Ralley and occasionally Primal
Rage or Raiden. I don't like playing Crusin' USA (less realistic than
RR), or KI (although it is fun to watch sometimes). These games were
aimed a children.
: Oh wait... there's the fact that N64 is about 1 year late :).
Well that does make me happy that I didn't wait.
Pasquale DeMaio
Torbjorn
Trust me...When Pamela Anderson "pops out" on your 50 inch TV in
3D...You'll like something to hold the "size" :-)
Anyway more storage is always better development wise (you don't need
to fill it, and you may save a lot of time trying to figure out how to
compress-things and save space...which is a time consuming business as
well...)
/TJ
Torbjorn
>dbw <d...@netsrq.com> wrote:
>>I don't think so.I am to old for Mario.
>>I like my PSX.
>>
>>Nuff said. David
>Actually, too little was said. How can you be "too old" for Mario?
>Maybe you're "too old" for videogames in general?
Why don't you think people can be too old for mario?
I know people who used to love barbie dolls and now consider
themselves to old for barbie...To old for Power-rangers, to old for
sesame-street etc etc...
(But if a game rocks, I would love it even if Mario is in it..but not
BECAUSE he's in it!!)
/TJ
> Does every game you play have to have scantily clad women, sex talk, or blood?
Therer are far too few of those so we usually have to paly some
driving sims and stuff know and then...Sigh :-)
> Is that your idea of "maturity"?
Who has ever gotten you the impression that everyoned gets more mature
as they get older :-)
> I can see you being "too old" for a game because it has no challenge (e.g. Scooby Doo for Genesis or Pico
>games), but how can you be too old for a game that follows in the
>footsteps of some of the most popular and ingenious games ever
>developed?
An easy experiment...Eat a Babe-Ruth candybar...Mmm. rather good, then
another..and another...When you start on your 10th do you think it
tastes as well???
> You're attitude is no different from people who think that
>videogames are only for kids.
I f**ng agree with this!!
> Having fun and the means of deriving
>said fun have no age constraints. I'm looking forward to having tons
>of fun with Mario 64, old fart as I am.'
I may as well, thay MidgetMoto (or whatever he's called :-)) Proves
his point and delivers on his promises (best game ever....)
> "Too old"? Sorry, you sound
>"too close-minded" to me. I mean, exactly what are your complaints
>with Mario? More to the point, why exactly it is immature to play
>Mario?
>Hanson
The Thing is...Who cares if its Mario or not (yea..I know you gonna
say the Kids)??? I think the MArio 64 would be as good if it was a
green elephant you moved around in the "immersive" 3D-world...
/TJ