Are Soul Calibur II home versions identical to the arcade?
Sprite Scaler
versions is*slightly* different, making use of each console's
strengths.
re-post of my original thread:
----
I recently got to see a Soul Calibur II (System246) arcade machine for
the first time. I thought it was fairly impressive, especially
compared to the two previous arcade games in the series, the 30fps
Soul Edge on System11, which is
modifed PS1 hardware, and the 60fps Soul Calibur on System12, which is
beefed-up PS1 hardware, ....Soul Calibur 2 arcade is not a massive
leap from the awesome Dreamcast remake of SC1 however, as most gamers
have come to realize. Graphically SCII seems 2-3x better than DC SC.
Where as the leap from System11/PS1 Soul Edge/Soul Blade to DC SC was
like 10-20x and the leap from System12 SC to DC SC was like 5-10x.
more or less, imo anyway. Soul Calibur II on System246 has more
geometry detail in the faces and in the backgrounds.
Dreamcast got away with heavy use of textures in SC. But since both
games are 60fps, there is less of a leap from DC SC to SCII. Those of
you who have ONLY played the PS1 Soul Edge/Soul Blade and buy SCII for
any of the consoles are going to be in for a monumental leap in
everything!
Ok the point of this post was to ask a question: Is the PS2 version of
SCII identical to the System246 arcade SCII?
No reason why it shouldn't be, as System246 is basicly PS2 arcade
hardware. if there is a difference, it should be no more than the
difference between System11 and PS1 (negligable diff) but not as much
as the difference between System12 and PS1 (very noticable)
I've heard comments that PS2 Tekken 4 is identical to the arcade
Tekken 4 which is also System246. I was hoping it is the same case
with SCII.
----
Now about the GameCube and XBox versions. I've heard comments that the
GC SCII looks really great even though it doesn't have the high-res
720p mode the XBox does. I understand the PS2 version has a 525p
and/or 420p modes. GC SCII can be in 420p/420i but it's not resolution
I'm wondering about here, it's the actual graphics and lighting. how
are they on GC compared to PS2
(and arcade System246) and XBox? I do happen to have the demo of GC
SCII but I'm unable to compare, not having the other versions.
GameCube is less PC-like than XBox, GC has very fast/low latency
1T-SRAM and on-chip 1T-SRAM on Flipper, making it very fast. I wonder
how Namco took advantage of this fact in the GC SCII.
The XBox version, how is that in 720p? Are the graphics the same as
the PS2 and GC versions, only in higher resolution, or did Namco beef
up the model's polygon counts, texturing, lighting, etc, to take
advantage of the NV2A XGPU and the fact that XBox has the most memory.
Yes, I am aware that SCII is a multi-platform game, and does not
really go beyond the bounds of System246/PS2. It's not like XBox
version or GC version was written specifically for the hardware (even
though it was in a sense, heh) like DOA3 on XBox or Metroid Prime on
GC.
Again, my main question in this thread is how exact is the PS2 home
version compared to the System246 arcade version.
thanks for answers.
Ice Wipe Inc.
"Sprite Scaler" <sprite...@directvinternet.com> wrote in message
news:8dca4a2e.03072...@posting.google.com...
---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to ne...@netfront.net
Brian
"Ice Wipe Inc." <birdw...@hotmail.conm> wrote in message
news:bfo8lf$2v37$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
> The PS2 has 'strengths', since when?
It's called support, the best controller and widest selection of gaming not
to mention biggest user base and sales. That is quite a list of strengths if
you ask me! The biggest joke of a console IMTHO would be the GameCube Tod.
Dusto
like SC2.
Dusto
"Brian" <nos...@noemails.net> wrote in message
news:vhvbtoh...@corp.supernews.com...
Onion Knight
> What world are you living in? Dual Shock controllers suck for fighting
games
> like SC2.
I'd have a hard time believing that the GCN controllers are better. But
then I've always expressed bias towards the PS controllers.
--
OK
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Brian
"Dusto" <dso...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:43RTa.470$V_4....@eagle.america.net...
> What world are you living in? Dual Shock controllers suck for fighting
games
> like SC2.
You have got to be kidding!
The PS2 controller is the best controller made of the 3 top systems for
fighting games!
Jarle Hrafn Grindhaug
> What world are you living in? Dual Shock controllers suck for fighting
games
> like SC2.
What are u talking about?? NGC pad is ALOT worse. The xbox im not even
talking about.
Real fighters use arcade stick.. but of pads the dualshock is the best by
miles.
-J
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 18.07.2003
Imad Hussain
Bah. The only way to play fighting games is with an arcade stick,
just as the only way to play light gun shooters is with a light gun.
--
Best,
Imad Hussain
mag...@purdue.edu
wrestleantares
wrote:
>What world are you living in? Dual Shock controllers suck for fighting games
>like SC2.
>
>Dusto
All controllers suck - to varying degrees - for fighting games. There
are some decent fighting pads, but the true aficianado uses a arcade
fighting stick.
Brian
"Imad Hussain" <mag...@purdue.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.SOL.4.51.03...@herald.cc.purdue.edu...
No doubt but we are talking about controllers, not arcade sticks. The PS2 is
by "FAR" the best "controller" for fighting games or any other game for that
matter.
Ice Wipe Inc.
couldn't feel confortable using it, heck the N64 controler felt better in my
hand, and had no trouble using it for fighting type games.
Sony should get off their fat lazy ass and try for once and design a
controller and not just upgrade the last one.
"Brian" <nos...@noemails.net> wrote in message
news:vhvtg9l...@corp.supernews.com...
Ice Wipe Inc.
"Jarle Hrafn Grindhaug" <ja...@spiderman.no> wrote in message
news:3f1feade$1...@news.broadpark.no...
Mister Anderson
<snip>
Gosh, I hope your alter-ego Cygfuck, the Bringer of Bull$hit responds.
Brian
PERIOD. "ALL" gaming reviewers have "ALWAYS" stated this. This is why there
are adapters made to play a PS1 & 2 pad on the DC, GameCube and Xbox but not
the other way around.
Imad Hussain
> "Imad Hussain" <mag...@purdue.edu> wrote:
> > On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Brian wrote:
> > > "Dusto" <dso...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > > > What world are you living in? Dual Shock controllers suck for fighting
> > > > games like SC2.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > >
> > > You have got to be kidding!
<SNIP>
> > Bah. The only way to play fighting games is with an arcade stick,
> > just as the only way to play light gun shooters is with a light gun.
>
> No doubt but we are talking about controllers, not arcade sticks. The PS2 is
> by "FAR" the best "controller" for fighting games or any other game for that
> matter.
Isn't an arcade stick (or joystick, if you prefer to use the more
ambiguous term) a "controller"? It may not be a gamepad (or joypad),
but that's irrelevant. Dual Shock controllers, like other gamepads,
*do* suck for fighting games such as Soul Calibur II. Which gamepad
sucks least is truly a moot point and unworthy of argument. It's just
as futile to discuss whether the Saturn 3D gamepad or the stock DC
controller is better for Virtua Cop -- both are incredibly inferior
to a light gun for the purposes of the game in question.
eldryne
The best gamepad is the one that feels the most comfortable in the hands of
the player, whichever pad that may be..it's that simple. You can't
arbitrarily state one pad is better than than the rest, unless you state
some good solid reasons and an "in my opinion".
Robert P Holley
news:bfo8lf$2v37$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
Their biggest strength is not having a douche bag like your own their
product.
Jedah And Sonans
"Sprite Scaler" <sprite...@directvinternet.com> wrote in message
news:8dca4a2e.03072...@posting.google.com...
> versions is*slightly* different, making use of each console's
> strengths.
>
The Ps2 versions certainly doesn't match up graphics wise to the arcade (or
load times, hyuk hyuk), the Cube version is close but not quite. I think the
X-Bleh version is graphically identical to the arcade, but... Spawn?!
Go Link go ;p
Note they all suck balls without a joystick, fuck all this 'which system
controller roxxors boxxors' shit, for fighters they're all crap.
Brian
"eldryne" <mysh...@yourho.use> wrote in message
news:nQUTa.532739$Vi5.13...@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
When "almost" every review I have "ever" read states the PS controller is
the best and "most" gamers prefer it over "all" others, I feel that is more
than opinion. "Your" opinion might differ than the majority but that makes
you the extreme "minority". But then again, there's nothing wrong with that.
Brian
"Ice Wipe Inc." <birdw...@hotmail.conm> wrote in message
> Talk about easy to please...
Talk about not having an valid opinion/argument
Ryan E.
wrote:
>When "almost" every review I have "ever" read states the PS controller is
>the best and "most" gamers prefer it over "all" others, I feel that is more
>than opinion. "Your" opinion might differ than the majority but that makes
>you the extreme "minority". But then again, there's nothing wrong with that.
PS DS controllers are damn good, except I have minor gripes with the
twin stick design (really isn't problematic). I prefer an nonsymmetric
layout on game pads.
Kevin Sullivan
wrote:
The reason that there are only PS2 adapters is because so many more
people have PS1 and/or PS2 controllers, not because they are better.
The market for other adapters would be much smaller...
I'll agree that the PS2 pad is the best controller for fighting games
but that's only because it's original design (the PS1 controller) was
focused on the d-pad with no analog sticks whatsoever. The Dual Shock
was an add-on design that obviously still works well with the d-pad
but is horrible for analog games (which is pretty much everything else
nowadays). Whenever I play games on PS2 I end up just using the d-pad
if I can because trying to use the analog stick on the DS is like
using the d-pad on the GC controller.
Pat
> controller roxxors boxxors' shit, for fighters they're all crap.
Soul Calibur is about reflexes, knowledge, and a little bit of luck.
The controller you use has no impact on this, providing the controller
isn't so badly designed it gives you RSI.
I'm willing to bet I could easily thrash more than half the 'arcade stick
is the only way to play' morons with my wavebird.
Imad Hussain
> I'm willing to bet I could easily thrash more than half the 'arcade stick
> is the only way to play' morons with my wavebird.
Sure. How about entering a few regional tourneys? Rank highly in them,
playing against those morons who feel arcade sticks are superior
instead of against the pathetic AI, and *then* we'll talk about how
gamepads are just as good as arcade sticks.
Brian
It all depends on what you're use to and nothing more. I use to be awesome
back in a day on an arcade stick but when I recently tried using one I
couldn't even get off a yoga flame on one :-) talk about embarrassing.
Sprite Scaler
arcade (or load times, hyuk hyuk), the Cube version is close but not
quite. I think the X-Bleh version is graphically identical to the
arcade, but... Spawn?!"
Can you please elaborate? Now you got me curious! ;)
In what way does the PS2 not match the graphics of the arcade version?
The arcade runs on the PS2-based System 246 board. I've never read
anything about this board being more powerful than PS2, unlike how the
arcade Soul Calibur1 System 12 board is significantly beefed up from
System 11 / PSX. On the other hand, I've read reviews stating that
the PS2 SC2 is an ALMOST perfect conversion of the arcade, gameplay &
graphics wise. I wonder what the "almost" means...if the arcade
version is somewhat different/better, graphically and/or in
gameplay....
there *were* subtle/slight differences between the System 11 Tekken,
Tekken 2 and Soul Edge compared to the home PSX versions of those
games. The ground textures and hit sparks for example, in Tekken &
Tekken 2, were higher resolution in the arcade System 11 versions. In
Tekken 1, on the stage select screen, the heads of the fighter you
selected rotated, unlike the home PSX Tekken. The fighter models in
PSX Tekken 1 and 2 might have been a bit smaller than their System 11
arcade counterparts. In the System 11 arcade Soul Edge, in Rock's
stage with the grass, the grass was larger than in the PSX version.
Soul Edge on PSX also played faster than the System 11 arcade game.
Those are just a few examples--not that there were any HUGE
differences between the System 11 arcade originals and PSX ports. The
PSX versions of System 11 games were 99.5% exact. And I'm only talking
about graphics/gameplay, NOT the *additions* Namco put into the home
versions, which is a completely unrelated subject to what we're
talking about here.
sorry to ask this again, but can anyone who is truly familar with both
versions of SC2 (System 246 arcade and PS2 home) give me the dirty
details on the differences :)
*goes back to playing his vastly superior-than-System12 arcade Soul
Calibur on Dreamcast*
xazos79
> games
> > like SC2.
>
> What are u talking about?? NGC pad is ALOT worse. The xbox im not even
> talking about.
> Real fighters use arcade stick.. but of pads the dualshock is the best by
> miles.
I'd have to say that the xbox controllers (both types) are better for
FPS games. The dualshock's analog sticks are in an uncomfortable
position. As for fighting games....who knows.
Dusto
> Get over yourself Tod. The PS2 is the best designed gaming pad there is
> PERIOD. "ALL" gaming reviewers have "ALWAYS" stated this.
I have never heard ANYONE say that EVER. The Dual Shock controller wears
blisters on my left thumb if I play more then a half-hour. Also there are
only four face buttons, that not enough to have the Light, Medium, and Heavy
Punch/Kick buttons. You have to set a shoulder button for two of those.
LAME! Sorry. It's common knowledge among fighting game enthusists that the
Japanese Saturn controller is the best control pad, and ASCII's Fighting Pad
was designed after that pad. That said, nothing beats an arcade stick.
Dusto
Dusto
> FPS games.
No argument here. As long as it's done right... *cough* Halo *cough*...
Excuse me.
Dusto
Pat
> playing against those morons who feel arcade sticks are superior
> instead of against the pathetic AI, and *then* we'll talk about how
> gamepads are just as good as arcade sticks.
Sure, just find me a regional tourney in my country that doesn't
RESTRICT you to playing with arcade sticks.
Jedah And Sonans
"Sprite Scaler" <sprite...@directvinternet.com> wrote in message
news:8dca4a2e.03072...@posting.google.com...
> arcade (or load times, hyuk hyuk), the Cube version is close but not
> quite. I think the X-Bleh version is graphically identical to the
> arcade, but... Spawn?!"
>
> Can you please elaborate? Now you got me curious! ;)
>
> In what way does the PS2 not match the graphics of the arcade version?
Simply a hypothesis - The Gamecube graphics certainly don't (quite) match
the arcade graphics. Reviews say the PS2 graphics don't match the Gamecube
ones. Also, Tekken 4 and Virtua Fighter 4 look far weaker on Ps2 than they
do in the arcade, and Calibur has better graphics than them...
Jarle Hrafn Grindhaug
> > > What world are you living in? Dual Shock controllers suck for fighting
> > games
> > > like SC2.
> >
> > What are u talking about?? NGC pad is ALOT worse. The xbox im not even
> > talking about.
> > Real fighters use arcade stick.. but of pads the dualshock is the best
by
> > miles.
>
> I'd have to say that the xbox controllers (both types) are better for
> FPS games. The dualshock's analog sticks are in an uncomfortable
> position. As for fighting games....who knows.
The BIG Xbox controller has terrible buttons to push and are placed wrong.
But it works for Halo I agree. The Controller S is a big improvement though.
But for all other games besides Halo I think they the big one suck.
Controller S suck, but not as much. :)
.J
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 24.07.2003
Brian
On the PS2 and PS1 pad, I have read "countless, countless" reviews and
opinions on gaming pads and the Sony pad ranks among the most versatile pads
ever made! I do agree with another post that the XBox pad is "the best"
gaming pad for FPS games.
The PS2 is "the best" overall and most versatile pad I have "ever" used.
As far as the 6 button face layout? Where have you've been. As far back as I
can remember, with the exception of the Saturn pad, fighting fans have
always had to settle for a four button face layout if an arcade stick wasn't
available. That is the whole reason I gave up using an arcade stick. They
were usually not readily available when a system or decent fighter was
launched or they sucked in comparison to "true" arcade sticks. I eventually
gave up on them and forced myself to learn to use a gaming pad.
"Dusto" <dso...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:o60Ua.542$V_4....@eagle.america.net...
Brian
"Pat" <p...@pat.com> wrote in message
news:Qa1Ua.91469$JA5.1...@news.xtra.co.nz...
KICK HIS ASS PAT! ;-)
Brian
"Jedah And Sonans" <hayama...@hotmail.com.betsuni> wrote in message
news:bfq9r4$j5j$1...@titan.btinternet.com...
Tekken 4 is an arcade exact duplicate on the PS2. The only difference is the
monitor an arcade machine uses.
Brian
"Chris Lee" <cl...@envirolink.org> wrote in message
news:bfr4vm$st4$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> In article <bfq9r4$j5j$1...@titan.btinternet.com>,
hayama...@hotmail.com.betsuni
> says...
Absolutely! Example: the VGA convertor for the DreamCast on a PC monitor, it
made "every" game look 2 times better!
> You seriously don't think that arcade games *USE A TV SET* for a monitor
> do you?
Imad Hussain
I thought "the controller you use has no impact on this, providing the
controller isn't so badly designed it gives you RSI." In any case,
what country do you live in? Perhaps I can find you at least a "little
league" tourney that will allow you to bring over your own controller,
a la Penny Arcade's mini-tourney a few weeks back.
Dusto
believing a word you say. Again, I have NEVER heard ANYONE say that the
Dual Shock controller is the best for fighting games. These people have some
pretty low expectations if they think a controller with a mushy
pain-inducing d-pad is the best they ever played with.
Dusto
"Brian" <nos...@noemails.net> wrote in message
news:vi24s43...@corp.supernews.com...
Daniel Kolle
>
>"Ice Wipe Inc." <birdw...@hotmail.conm> wrote in message
>news:bfo8lf$2v37$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
>> The PS2 has 'strengths', since when?
>
>It's called support, the best controller
Liar!
>and widest selection of gaming
Half the games are shit. Quantity or Quality?
>not
>to mention biggest user base and sales.
No shit, dumbass. Of course the PS2 is going to sell more with the
fucking largest user base!
>The biggest joke of a console IMTHO would be the GameCube Tod.
Your opinion is wrong.
--
-Kolle; 15 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, and Gustav Mahler are my Gods.
Daniel Kolle
>"ALL" gaming reviewers have "ALWAYS" stated this.
Argumentum ad verecundiam. "ALWAYS" have they?
Ted
Brian wrote:
>
> "Chris Lee" <cl...@envirolink.org> wrote in message
snip
> > Idoit. That's in large part due to the *MONITOR* the aracade games use.
>
> Absolutely! Example: the VGA convertor for the DreamCast on a PC monitor, it
> made "every" game look 2 times better!
snip
Are you being sarcastic? Because many people disliked how Capcom's 2D
fighters looked on VGA (people complained the sprites looked much blockier).
Brian
"Daniel Kolle"
poor kid. did I just put a wrinkle in your day?
go grab some cookies and milk and have mommy and dada read you a story
Jedah And Sonans
> In article <bfq9r4$j5j$1...@titan.btinternet.com>,
hayama...@hotmail.com.betsuni
> says...
> >
> >
> >
>
> do you?
>
>
Right back atcha', if you think Virtua Fighter 4 is arcade perfect on the
Ps2. Bahaha.
Robert P Holley
news:l3a2ivs575amfr5b8...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:01:31 -0400, "Brian" <nos...@noemails.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Imad Hussain" <mag...@purdue.edu> wrote in message
> >news:Pine.SOL.4.51.03...@herald.cc.purdue.edu...
> >>
> >> >
> >> > "Dusto" <dso...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> >> > > What world are you living in? Dual Shock controllers suck for
fighting
> >> > games
> >> > > like SC2.
> >> >
> >> > The PS2 controller is the best controller made of the 3 top systems
for
> >> > fighting games!
> >>
> >> Bah. The only way to play fighting games is with an arcade stick,
> >> just as the only way to play light gun shooters is with a light gun.
> >
> >No doubt but we are talking about controllers, not arcade sticks. The PS2
is
>
> There seems to be a mismatch with terms here. What the heck is a
> "controller" if arcade stick panel is not one?
>
> Did you mean to say "gamepad"?
>
> A gamepad is a controller. A mouse is a controller. A keyboard is a
> controller (in a sense). A flightstick is a controller. A steering
> wheel is a controller. An arcade stick is a controller.
>
> Get it?
What about a wireless mouse?
Brian
"Jedah And Sonans" <hayama...@hotmail.com.betsuni> wrote in message
So basically you're admitting you were wrong about Tekken 4? It takes a big
man to admit he was wrong but after your Virtua comment you sank back into
child status.
Robert P Holley
news:kog2ivgst2orlnhu2...@4ax.com...
> "Brian" <nos...@noemails.net> thought hard and said:
>
> >
> >"Ice Wipe Inc." <birdw...@hotmail.conm> wrote in message
> >news:bfo8lf$2v37$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
> >> The PS2 has 'strengths', since when?
> >
> >It's called support, the best controller
>
> Liar!
>
> >and widest selection of gaming
>
> Half the games are shit.
You know this how?
> >not
> >to mention biggest user base and sales.
>
> No shit, dumbass. Of course the PS2 is going to sell more with the
> fucking largest user base!
>
> >The biggest joke of a console IMTHO would be the GameCube Tod.
>
> Your opinion is wrong.
Kinda like the "Half the [PS2] games are shit" opinion?
Nick Vargish
> pretty low expectations if they think a controller with a mushy
> pain-inducing d-pad is the best they ever played with.
The DualShock 2 does not have a d-pad. It has 4 buttons, one each for
up, down, left, and right.
Nick
--
# sigmask || 0.2 || 20030107 || public domain || feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')
Daniel Kolle
>"Brian" <nos...@noemails.net> thought hard and said:
>
>>
>>"Ice Wipe Inc." <birdw...@hotmail.conm> wrote in message
>>news:bfo8lf$2v37$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
>>> The PS2 has 'strengths', since when?
>>
>>It's called support, the best controller
>
>Liar!
>
>>and widest selection of gaming
>
>Half the games are shit. Quantity or Quality?
>
>>not
>>to mention biggest user base and sales.
>
>No shit, dumbass. Of course the PS2 is going to sell more with the
>fucking largest user base!
>
>>The biggest joke of a console IMTHO would be the GameCube Tod.
>
>Your opinion is wrong.
Wow, I have returned to my old form. I guess a lack of sleep for two
days will do that to ya.
Jedah And Sonans
Nope.
> It takes a big
> man to admit he was wrong but after your Virtua comment you sank back into
> child status.
You folks who started this based on my personal opinion of Soul Calibur II
are the real kids here.
...wait... Playstation 2 group.... say no f'n more.
Brian
"Jedah And Sonans" <hayama...@hotmail.com.betsuni> wrote in message
Nope. We were merely pointing out you were wrong.
> ...wait... Playstation 2 group.... say no f'n more.
Yet here "you" are.
Yup, you make sense, NOT!
Miles Bader
> > Get over yourself Tod. The PS2 is the best designed gaming pad there is
> > PERIOD. "ALL" gaming reviewers have "ALWAYS" stated this.
>
> I have never heard ANYONE say that EVER. The Dual Shock controller wears
> blisters on my left thumb if I play more then a half-hour.
Yeah, me too. The GC dpad is too small, but the PS/PS2 dpad feels just
downright sucky. Either way, you lose if you want to use the dpad.
[In any case, the claim that `PS2 is the best designed gaming pad there
is' is obviously silly...]
-miles
--
`Life is a boundless sea of bitterness'
Clydefrog
<nav+...@bandersnatch.org> wrote:
>"Dusto" <dso...@bigfoot.com> writes:
>
>> pretty low expectations if they think a controller with a mushy
>> pain-inducing d-pad is the best they ever played with.
>
>The DualShock 2 does not have a d-pad. It has 4 buttons, one each for
>up, down, left, and right.
>
Dear God, I hate that with every fiber of my being.
>Nick
Dusto
Dusto
"Nick Vargish" <nav+...@bandersnatch.org> wrote in message
news:m38yqm2...@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org...
Gene Poole
> > ...wait... Playstation 2 group.... say no f'n more.
>
> Yet here "you" are.
> Yup, you make sense, NOT!
SPELL CROSSPOST.
--
Gene Poole
"People, Microsoft is not interested in what is good for the consumer.
Open your eyes once and for all"
-teemoney, 1999
Gene Poole
> [In any case, the claim that `PS2 is the best designed gaming pad there
> is' is obviously silly...]
the simple fact that the analog stick, the preferential control option,
is not in the primary placing, that is to say, where the control pad is,
is proof enough that what you say is correct.
and stuff :)
--
Gene Poole
Free Tibet (With every 25L fill-up)
Brian
"Gene Poole" <pool...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3F2210FD...@yahoo.com...
> Brian wrote:
>
> > > ...wait... Playstation 2 group.... say no f'n more.
> >
> > Yet here "you" are.
> > Yup, you make sense, NOT!
>
> SPELL CROSSPOST.
I was referring to usenet as a whole. Usenet isn't about maturity and
factual information. It is about nonsense and stupidity at it's best! :-)
CrazyFool
except for alaizing and HDTV output.
Also of note. PS2 underground has word that the PS2 version will be tweaked
for the north american release.
"Sprite Scaler" <sprite...@directvinternet.com> wrote in message
news:8dca4a2e.03072...@posting.google.com...
> Actually I need to re-phrase that question because each of the home
> versions is*slightly* different, making use of each console's
> strengths.
>
>
> re-post of my original thread:
>
> ----
> I recently got to see a Soul Calibur II (System246) arcade machine for
> the first time. I thought it was fairly impressive, especially
> compared to the two previous arcade games in the series, the 30fps
> Soul Edge on System11, which is
> modifed PS1 hardware, and the 60fps Soul Calibur on System12, which is
> beefed-up PS1 hardware, ....Soul Calibur 2 arcade is not a massive
> leap from the awesome Dreamcast remake of SC1 however, as most gamers
> have come to realize. Graphically SCII seems 2-3x better than DC SC.
> Where as the leap from System11/PS1 Soul Edge/Soul Blade to DC SC was
> like 10-20x and the leap from System12 SC to DC SC was like 5-10x.
> more or less, imo anyway. Soul Calibur II on System246 has more
> geometry detail in the faces and in the backgrounds.
>
> Dreamcast got away with heavy use of textures in SC. But since both
> games are 60fps, there is less of a leap from DC SC to SCII. Those of
> you who have ONLY played the PS1 Soul Edge/Soul Blade and buy SCII for
> any of the consoles are going to be in for a monumental leap in
> everything!
>
> Ok the point of this post was to ask a question: Is the PS2 version of
> SCII identical to the System246 arcade SCII?
>
> No reason why it shouldn't be, as System246 is basicly PS2 arcade
> hardware. if there is a difference, it should be no more than the
> difference between System11 and PS1 (negligable diff) but not as much
> as the difference between System12 and PS1 (very noticable)
>
> I've heard comments that PS2 Tekken 4 is identical to the arcade
> Tekken 4 which is also System246. I was hoping it is the same case
> with SCII.
> ----
>
> Now about the GameCube and XBox versions. I've heard comments that the
> GC SCII looks really great even though it doesn't have the high-res
> 720p mode the XBox does. I understand the PS2 version has a 525p
> and/or 420p modes. GC SCII can be in 420p/420i but it's not resolution
> I'm wondering about here, it's the actual graphics and lighting. how
> are they on GC compared to PS2
> (and arcade System246) and XBox? I do happen to have the demo of GC
> SCII but I'm unable to compare, not having the other versions.
> GameCube is less PC-like than XBox, GC has very fast/low latency
> 1T-SRAM and on-chip 1T-SRAM on Flipper, making it very fast. I wonder
> how Namco took advantage of this fact in the GC SCII.
>
> The XBox version, how is that in 720p? Are the graphics the same as
> the PS2 and GC versions, only in higher resolution, or did Namco beef
> up the model's polygon counts, texturing, lighting, etc, to take
> advantage of the NV2A XGPU and the fact that XBox has the most memory.
>
> Yes, I am aware that SCII is a multi-platform game, and does not
> really go beyond the bounds of System246/PS2. It's not like XBox
> version or GC version was written specifically for the hardware (even
> though it was in a sense, heh) like DOA3 on XBox or Metroid Prime on
> GC.
>
>
> Again, my main question in this thread is how exact is the PS2 home
> version compared to the System246 arcade version.
>
> thanks for answers.
Brian
"CrazyFool" <Whath...@IsThis.com> wrote in message
news:bg1461$ldc$1...@news.chatlink.com...
> From what I read a few months back all versions are identicle in every way
> except for alaizing and HDTV output.
Which would give the XBox the graphical advantage and since it already has
the sound advantage with DD 5.1, it appears it would be the version to buy
if you have more than one option.
Pat
> > RESTRICT you to playing with arcade sticks.
>
> I thought "the controller you use has no impact on this, providing the
> controller isn't so badly designed it gives you RSI."
And this is true, but I don't like arcade sticks. I've come to the
conclusion that the reason everyone claims the arcade stick is better
is because the hardcore SC2 fans HAD to play in an arcade (waiting for
the console release), and thus learnt to play on an arcade stick.
Trying to play with a different device fucks them up, and they
immediately claim "this controller sucks! I need an arcade stick!"
(human nature - why learn something new when you can simply claim it's
inferior?). As for me, I learnt to play SC on the Dreamcast, as the
arcade cabinets are ridiculously expensive over here. If I'd played on
an arcade machine as much as I've played on my DC and GC, I would be
destitute today. On top of that, the arcade machine wasn't even in this
country until roughly two weeks before my import copy arrived.
> In any case, what country do you live in? Perhaps I can find you at
> least a "little league" tourney that will allow you to bring over
> your own controller, a la Penny Arcade's mini-tourney a few weeks back.
Is reading headers out of fashion these days? The country is New Zealand.
If you (or anyone else) knows of a competition over here playing with GC
controllers (and allowing your own setup - the default button layout is
absolute pants), please let me know! I'd love to play against a greater
range of people.
Phil
> "CrazyFool" <Whath...@IsThis.com> wrote in message
> news:bg1461$ldc$1...@news.chatlink.com...
> > From what I read a few months back all versions are identicle in every way
> > except for alaizing and HDTV output.
>
>
> Which would give the XBox the graphical advantage and since it already has
> the sound advantage with DD 5.1, it appears it would be the version to buy
> if you have more than one option.
>
Doesn't have Link though, I'm going w/ the GC version. Upgarding from
VF4 to VF4 Evo will cover the PS2 for now anyway.
Robert P Holley
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:59:40 -0400, "Robert P Holley"
> <holl...@delanet.com> wrote:
>
>
> >> A gamepad is a controller. A mouse is a controller. A keyboard is a
> >> controller (in a sense). A flightstick is a controller. A steering
> >> wheel is a controller. An arcade stick is a controller.
> >>
> >> Get it?
> >
> >What about a wireless mouse?
>
And a wireless keyboard too?
Brian
"Phil" <ps2isn...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:a9c2e129.03072...@posting.google.com...
I prefer Spawn to Link and both to Heihachi.
If I was to own more than one version the XBox would be 1st, GameCube 2nd
and I prefer the PS2 pad to all of the others.
Robert P Holley
> On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:03:46 -0400, "Robert P Holley"
> <holl...@delanet.com> wrote:
>
> >> >What about a wireless mouse?
> >>
> >> What about it? A wireless controller, gee whizz.
> >
> >And a wireless keyboard too?
>
> skills, maybe you will have a show of your own in your next life.
I was just giving ya a hard time. :-) I actually agreed with your original
post regarding the definition of a controller.
BC
<nos...@noemails.net> wrote:
>> Doesn't have Link though, I'm going w/ the GC version. Upgarding from
>> VF4 to VF4 Evo will cover the PS2 for now anyway.
>
>I prefer Spawn to Link and both to Heihachi.
>If I was to own more than one version the XBox would be 1st, GameCube 2nd
>and I prefer the PS2 pad to all of the others.
I don't like Heihachi, but prefer him over Spawn or Link... Don't like
Spawn either, but prefer him over Link. I liked the Zelda games I have
played, but for some reason just can't stand Link...
(Anyways it's a shame we didn't get Connor MacLeod as a playable
character... "There can be only one!")
<=[BC]=>
Mattinglyfan
"tt" <t...@none.invalid> wrote in message
> On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:03:46 -0400, "Robert P Holley"
> <holl...@delanet.com> wrote:
>
> >> >What about a wireless mouse?
> >>
> >> What about it? A wireless controller, gee whizz.
> >
> >And a wireless keyboard too?
>
> skills, maybe you will have a show of your own in your next life.
>
Are you new to the goings on in our country? You obviously have never heard
of the town his great-grandfather built, Holleywood.
Robert P Holley
news:196dnbHpNaS...@comcast.com...
Wouldn't it really be called Holleywoode?
Pat
> that way only because they've come used to that inferior
> lowest-common-denominator controller.
>
> Arcade games usually tend to have the best kind of controller for each
> kind of game. A trackball for Marble Madness, a light gun for Virtua
> Cop, a flightstick for Afterburner, a steering wheel + pedals for
> driving games, an "arcade stick" for fighting games and Pac Man, etc.
This is almost-but-not-quite true... some games have specialised
controllers, but a vast majority use the same old digital four-direction
joystick with crappy buttons. Soul Calibur 2 machines at my local arcade
all use the exact same joystick and six button layout that the old
street fighter games used to use.
> How someone could possibly think that a controller where you use only
> your thumbs for 90% of the controls is any good is beyond me. Most of
> the other fingers are just supporting the controller, keeping it in
> the air.
So this is obviously where the misconception comes in. You're making the
assumption that a controller MUST be used with thumbs, which is simply not
the case. I can hold my GC controller steady with just the fingers of my
left hand - I use my fingers to press the attack buttons, not my thumb.
With the fingers already placed on all three attack buttons, and only a
minor twitch required to block (or even better, a left trigger) I can
hit buttons much quicker than I can on the spread-out arcade controller.
OF COURSE if you play SC with your frigging thumbs you're going to have
a hard time. Jesus Christ. Anyone'd think console gamers didn't see the
'customize control' area in the options.
> So you have just learned to play SC with an inferior controller.
Still sticking to your claims of inferior and superior...
No, I didn't learn to play SC with an inferior controller. I learnt to
play with a controller that wasn't an arcade stick, and there's absolutely
no reason an arcade stick is better. I've played with an arcade stick,
and with a controller, and I *prefer* the controller. I could easily
have bought an arcade stick, and I chose not to, because I find them more
painful to play with. Reaction times are artificially dulled by the need
to move your fingers to the further buttons. If an arcade stick came with
buttons laid out like this:
A
B K
G
then it would be fine - my fingers would lie nicely across all the attack
buttons. But every arcade machine I've played is like this:
A B K
G G G
If you think you have a real reason an arcade stick is better, then let's
hear it. Otherwise, try to deal with the fact that different people have
different tastes and preferences. I never claimed arcade sticks were an
inferior controller - only that those who mindlessly claim an arcade stick
is superior are morons.
Imad Hussain
> A
> B K
> G
How would that work? My fingers, at least, are more or less parallel,
not in some sort of diamond shape.
> then it would be fine - my fingers would lie nicely across all the attack
> buttons. But every arcade machine I've played is like this:
>
> A B K
> G G G
I didn't realize NZ's arcades were in such shabby shape. The proper SC
control set up is more like:
A B K (curved to fit your fingers, not as straight as in diagram)
G
This can be moderately well duplicated via a good 8-button layout:
X A B K
G X X X
And that's not even touching upon the stick itself, which is far
superior to the d-pad and the wimpy, tiny analogue sticks of console
gamepads for the purposes of fighting games.
--
Best,
Imad Hussain
mag...@purdue.edu
Pat
> > B K
> > G
>
> How would that work? My fingers, at least, are more or less parallel,
> not in some sort of diamond shape.
It's more for the distance factor than anything else. If the three
attack buttons were arranged in a triangle (ignore G for now), the buttons
could remain the same size but be at a more comfortable distance.
Right now, stretching my fingers to the locations of the three buttons
is uncomfortable, and makes A+K extremely horrible. Hell, maybe my
hands are smaller than other people's, but that just validates my point
that no controller is superior to any other (within reason - a trackball
would certainly make a lame SC controller).
> I didn't realize NZ's arcades were in such shabby shape. The proper SC
> control set up is more like:
>
> A B K (curved to fit your fingers, not as straight as in diagram)
> G
Now that you mention it, I have seen this layout on one machine, but it
was a single-player only machine... it wasn't so bad, except that,
again, the buttons were spaced out a little too much for comfort.
B
A K
G
seems like it would be an ideal arcade layout, if you like blocking with
your thumb. I prefer shifting my middle finger to the block button, which
is why I like the diamond - small distance to travel, and B+G can be done
by laying the finger out straight. I don't like using my thumb to hit
buttons at all in SC, but I can get used to it after a few rounds.
> And that's not even touching upon the stick itself, which is far
> superior to the d-pad and the wimpy, tiny analogue sticks of console
> gamepads for the purposes of fighting games.
Now that's like saying an ordinary stick shift is superior to a wimpy,
tiny racing gearstick. I find the small size of the GC pad to be
extremely useful for quick movements with a minimum of actual motion
required. Also, being able to switch at will between the stick and the
d-pad is another advantage a joystick doesn't have. Some movements
are better suited to a d-pad, and some to a stick, and I'm glad Namco
gives us the option rather than treating the d-pad like four buttons.
Again, though, you're sticking to the idea that a stick is somehow
superior with no evidence. You may prefer an arcade stick, but that
fact alone doesn't make it superior. That's like the teenage boy who
thinks a game is for kids because it has bright colours - no basis for
the opinion, but it's absolutely correct, damnit, and no-one else's
opinion can ever be acceptable.
slapkicksy
"Ice Wipe Inc." <birdw...@hotmail.conm> wrote in message
news:bfo8lf$2v37$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
> The PS2 has 'strengths', since when?
>
> ---
> Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
> Complaints to ne...@netfront.net
Pat
> console pads for that matter) that isn't the way they were designed to
> be held. You must have quite small hands if you can keep your fingers
> on the buttons all the time with the CG pad.
I often hear that the GC controller is too small, but it doesn't seem
so to me, and my hands are more or less the same size as those of my
friends. I am in my mid-twenties, so I don't think my hands are
going to grow much in the next years.
> You have just found some obscure way to use the gamepad to overcome
> its weaknesses.
A weakness overcome is no weakness at all. It is only perceived as
a weakness by those too ingrained to see otherwise.
> If that is the best way to play the games with the gamepad, why do you
> need to configure the controls at all to achieve it? Why isn't it the
> default configuration?
Don't ask me - ask Namco. Their default layout is just retarded,
apparently because they feel the same way about thumbs as you do.
An unwillingness to change is a normal human trait, I suppose, but
I prefer to allow for possibilities. I'm damned if I know how Namco
expected people to play properly with just a thumb. Perhaps they
have marketing deals with makers of alternate controllers.
> By just looking at 99% of the gamepads out there, they are designed so
> that the major buttons that you'd use most of the time are most easily
> reached with your thumbs, if you keep it in hand as it was originally
> designed.
In my opinion, someone intending to play a game should examine all
options to find the best way to play, not just put up with shitty
defaults. Do you not religiously re-configure your keyboard controls
for an FPS PC game? Would you play Quake 1 with the cursor keys and
complain that the keyboard was inadequate?
> Yes there is. More precision and more instant response because thumbs
> are not your main "controllers". Unless you try to come up with some
> more obscure way to hold the controller on your lap and try to cram
> four fingers close to each other.
You believe large hand movements is more instant than a quick flick
of the thumb over a small distance? I don't see the need to have
the controller in your lap, and I play with three fingers, not four.
The B, X, and Y buttons are easily far enough to fit almost anyone's
fingers (unless they're an incredible fatass).
> By the way, how do you use the d-pad or analog stick on your gamepad?
> Apparently not with your thumb?
I do use my thumb on the left hand side - I grip with the left hand as
you do with both. This gives access to the stick and pad, and also an
extra left trigger - good for either block or assigning to an awkward
key combo.
> Seems much more natural TO ME.
My emphasis added. I have to assume you are from the USA, to be so
self centered as to believe your own preferences should apply to
everyone.
> Seems quite nice to me, you can have your four fingers resting on each
> button and have instant access to them, no need to squeese your palm
> or fingers to a "triangle" like with the gamepad you suggested.
There is no squeezing going on. The arcade layout involves awkward
stretching for me, and I hate to play without a finger on all attacks.
> And also you can use a couple of fingers or even your whole palm for
> the direction controls with the stick, not merely your thumb for the
> analog stick or d-pad.
Not being left handed, I find my left thumb is more accurate than my
entire (stupid) left hand.
> I knew people who preferred to play PC racing games with a freaking
> keyboard, but that does not mean a keyboard is "just as good"
> controller for driving games as an analog joystick or a wheel/pedal
> combo. They were just used to using the keyboard for driving games,
> that's all.
The question is really whether or not they could beat a steering
wheel player with their keyboard. If they could - the keyboard is
a perfectly acceptable controller. I remember when Mortal Kombat
first came to PC. Every review said playing with the keyboard was
like eating salt with chopsticks. Yet I never had any trouble with
it, and could frequently beat my friends playing on a gamepad (beating
another player on the same keyboard was next to impossible, but that was
due to keyboard lockup).
To claim that a controller is inferior simply because you can't use
it is the height of arrogance.
> Just like you, they might have called morons all those who even
> suggested keyboard is an inferior controller for driving.
And I would say they were right, if they could perform acceptably.
Anyone who denounces a controller without a good reason IS a moron.
Pat
> thing as having to keep the controller in your lap or hands in an
> uncomfortable way it was not designed to. E.g. cramming your fingers
> to the top buttons and keeping the controller on your lap would be the
> same if you had to keep the keyboard on your lap and turn 90 degrees
> sideways before you can use it the way you want.
You keep claiming this, but reality doesn't bear out your statements.
My hands are not uncomfortable playing this way, or I wouldn't do it.
There is no 'cramming' involved, unless you have freakishly fat
fingers... which may be the case for many gamers, I admit, but those
people can find their own controller - I still don't think they would
be a far superior player just because they use an arcade stick, and I
still say I can beat a good portion of people who play on one. My only
problem is proving it, because I can't find any tournaments in this
country. If it was uncomfortable for me, I wouldn't play this way.
And it's not apples to oranges - it's a case of customizing the controls
to the way you like to play. If I agreed with you that it was
uncomfortable to play this way, you might have a point, but it's not, so
you don't. I play SC1 and SC2 in this fashion for hours on end, and my
hands feel just fine. You say the controller was designed to only be
used one way, but that just makes you too rigid, or too self centered.
I say the controller has been excellently designed to be used in a
variety of positions, depending on the gamer. Certainly, grotesquely
fat people will have trouble using the GC controller. I repeat, I am
not advocating that everyone start using MY controller or layout, only
that to claim one true style of controller is either arrogant or stupid.
Which are you? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and going with
arrogant.
Imad Hussain
>
> I do use my thumb on the left hand side - I grip with the left hand as
> you do with both.
You mentioned earlier that fingers are faster than the thumb (and so
they are) -- why settle for an inferior solution (the thumb-based
d-pad/analogue stick) to the superior arcade stick, where it's all in
the fingers (and the wrist)?
It's quite easy to show that the arcade stick is superior in tests of
speed.
Exhibit A) Castlevania: SotN (PSX): Rock the d-pad to escape from the
stone state. Rock the arcade stick to escape from the stone state.
Note the tremendous time difference between the two methods.
Exhibit B) Street Fighter II (SNES): Rock the d-pad to escape from a
dizzy. Rock the arcade stick to escape from a dizzy. Same results as
above.
Try it with a light switch. Can you flick it back and forth more
quickly using your fingers and your thumb or your thumb alone (even
via a dimmer switch if you feel the test is unfair)?
Note also that your method of using the right hand side of a gamepad
to emulate the finger-based setup of an arcade layout really sidesteps
the issue at hand. Were I a betting man, I would wager most people
(even those without "fat fingers") find it easier to place their
fingers upon the buttons of a standard arcade controller than on the
GameCube gamepad's face buttons.
slapkicksy
"Imad Hussain" <mag...@purdue.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.SOL.4.51.03...@herald.cc.purdue.edu...
Most people don't play games, so you have lost your wager.
Pat
> they are) -- why settle for an inferior solution (the thumb-based
> d-pad/analogue stick) to the superior arcade stick, where it's all in
> the fingers (and the wrist)?
I said fingers were faster than the thumb for pressing buttons - and I'm
not sure how you're holding the arcade stick to be using your fingers
to move it. Wrist yes, but fingers... what?
> It's quite easy to show that the arcade stick is superior in tests of
> speed.
>
> Exhibit A) Castlevania: SotN (PSX): Rock the d-pad to escape from the
> stone state. Rock the arcade stick to escape from the stone state.
> Note the tremendous time difference between the two methods.
>
> Exhibit B) Street Fighter II (SNES): Rock the d-pad to escape from a
> dizzy. Rock the arcade stick to escape from a dizzy. Same results as
> above.
Exhibit C) Soul Calibur: rock the D-pad, watch character have a minor
spastic fit. Rock the arcade stick, have another spastic fit.
If I can pull off summon suffering in the space of one jump-kick with
a D-pad, how much faster does it need to be?
> Try it with a light switch. Can you flick it back and forth more
> quickly using your fingers and your thumb or your thumb alone (even
> via a dimmer switch if you feel the test is unfair)?
Fingers, naturally, but that is because I would use two fingers and
treat both ends of the light switch as buttons, not as a control
stick. Talking about a rocker-style switch of course - one of those
crusty old lever switches is hard enough to switch quickly either
way.
> Note also that your method of using the right hand side of a gamepad
> to emulate the finger-based setup of an arcade layout really sidesteps
> the issue at hand. Were I a betting man, I would wager most people
> (even those without "fat fingers") find it easier to place their
> fingers upon the buttons of a standard arcade controller than on the
> GameCube gamepad's face buttons.
Regardless of your wager, *I* find trying to lay my fingers on the
arcade buttons uncomfortable. So does this mean the GC controller
or the arcade stick is a superior controller for me? I think the
answer is obvious.
Also - your claim of sidestepping the issue is bogus. There is no
issue.
TvSurf
> do in the arcade, and Calibur has better graphics than them...
Virtua Vighter 4 yes, Tekken 4 no.
VF4 arcade runs on NAOMI 2 which contains SH-4 CPU, 2 PowerVR2DC / CLX
chips (only 1 in NAOMI and DC) plus the ELAN T&L processor plus 32 MB
memory for each chip (128 MB total) which makes it much more capable /
powerful than the PS2 in *most* areas. VF4 on PS2 looks much weaker
than VF4 arcade.
Different story with Tekken 4, since the arcade runs on System 246
which is basicly a PS2 on an arcade board. Tekken 4 arcade and home
look more or less identical. the only difference would be the monitor
used in the arcade, and whatever display you are using for your PS2.
vegeta ssj4
because you can play as link
"TvSurf" <suburb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d2150f91.03080...@posting.google.com...