GTA: Vice City should be banned.
Commander Riker
By Shawna Jackson
The Auburn Plainsman (Auburn U.) <http://www.theplainsman.com/>
July 12, 2002 (U-WIRE)
AUBURN, Ala. - Killing cops, beating women and stealing cars has
become fun and games thanks to the makers of Grand Theft Auto: Vice
City
According to Dave Manning, software manager of Hastings, Vice City
might be a popular game.
"We can't keep it on the shelf," Manning said.
Vice City is rated M, for mature audiences only, which means that only
people 17 or older may buy the game. Vice City was rated M because of
its graphic violence, blood, sexual content and criminal activity.
The game is about a thug working for a Japanese gang whose mission is
to steal cars, perform hits, run drugs and commit other crimes.
Points are given for running over pedestrians, shooting innocent
bystanders and killing police officers.
The controversy surrounding this game has led to much talk of
censoring Vice City in the United States, but banning the game is
impossible because of the First Amendment, which protects the
publisher"s right to market and sell the game.
Banning is not out of the question everywhere, however.
Australia banned Vice City from sale.
An article in GameSpot Australia cited the Office of Film and
Literature Classification as saying Vice City "may not be sold, hired,
exhibited, displayed, demonstrated or advertised."
This censorship is primarily because of strong sexual violence.
Players can take a break with a prostitute and then get their money
back by beating the prostitute to death.
In May 2002, shortly after Australia's decision to ban Vice City, USA
Today quoted David Walsh, head of the National Institute on Media and
the Family, a Minnesota-based media watchdog organization, as saying
"Vice City glamorizes anti-social and criminal activity" and is
"inappropriate for kids."
Walsh said game violence is different from movie violence because
"with a game, the player is in the role of perpetrator, not observer.
That is a different kind of psychological role."
The effects of violent games on America"s youth came into question
shortly after the April 20, 1999, Columbine High School shootings.
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the shooters in the Columbine massacre,
were big gamers themselves and, according to the 2001 lawsuit filed
against game makers, the boys learned a lot about shooting and killing
from the video games they played.
At the time of this lawsuit, the controversy was about Doom. Now it
surrounds Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
Internet Policeman #69
What they should do is start giving people a video game license
This way if you are under 17 then the store owners will know who to sell and
who not to sell to.
This way we could stop the spread of GTA:VC to minors.
I mean.. who cares about drugs, tobacco, and alcohol?
It's theese damn video games.
"Commander Riker" <darkco...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:be61bb4c.02100...@posting.google.com...
Paranoid7
"Internet Policeman #69" <Hookedonphon...@what.com> wrote in
message news:uq6ra69...@corp.supernews.com...
HC
I hope someone suck out your eyeball and skullfuck your fat ass.
Have a nice day.
Android
"Commander Riker" <darkco...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:be61bb4c.02100...@posting.google.com...
> By Shawna Jackson
> The Auburn Plainsman (Auburn U.) <http://www.theplainsman.com/>
>
> July 12, 2002 (U-WIRE)
>
>
> AUBURN, Ala. - Killing cops, beating women and stealing cars has
> become fun and games thanks to the makers of Grand Theft Auto: Vice
> City
> According to Dave Manning, software manager of Hastings, Vice City
> might be a popular game.
> "We can't keep it on the shelf," Manning said.
Of course he can't keep it on the shelf! IT ISN'T OUT YET!
> Vice City is rated M, for mature audiences only, which means that only
> people 17 or older may buy the game. Vice City was rated M because of
> its graphic violence, blood, sexual content and criminal activity.
> The game is about a thug working for a Japanese gang whose mission is
> to steal cars, perform hits, run drugs and commit other crimes.
> Points are given for running over pedestrians, shooting innocent
> bystanders and killing police officers.
Anyone who plays this knows that this is not true. There are no points
awarded for such things. In fact, the more mayhem you create outside of the
required missions, the more likely you are to be shot and killed by the
police yourself.
> The controversy surrounding this game has led to much talk of
> censoring Vice City in the United States, but banning the game is
> impossible because of the First Amendment, which protects the
> publisher"s right to market and sell the game.
> Banning is not out of the question everywhere, however.
> Australia banned Vice City from sale.
> An article in GameSpot Australia cited the Office of Film and
> Literature Classification as saying Vice City "may not be sold, hired,
> exhibited, displayed, demonstrated or advertised."
> This censorship is primarily because of strong sexual violence.
> Players can take a break with a prostitute and then get their money
> back by beating the prostitute to death.
So, in other words, a female prostitute's life is more valuable than a male
pedestrian. It is apparently okay to gun down people with flamethrowers and
a bazooka, but punching a prostitute...now that's over the line!
> In May 2002, shortly after Australia's decision to ban Vice City, USA
> Today quoted David Walsh, head of the National Institute on Media and
> the Family, a Minnesota-based media watchdog organization, as saying
> "Vice City glamorizes anti-social and criminal activity" and is
> "inappropriate for kids."
Which is why it is rated M as inappropriate for kids.
> Walsh said game violence is different from movie violence because
> "with a game, the player is in the role of perpetrator, not observer.
> That is a different kind of psychological role."
> The effects of violent games on America"s youth came into question
> shortly after the April 20, 1999, Columbine High School shootings.
> Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the shooters in the Columbine massacre,
> were big gamers themselves and, according to the 2001 lawsuit filed
> against game makers, the boys learned a lot about shooting and killing
> from the video games they played.
And they apparently failed to learn concepts of morality from their parents.
> At the time of this lawsuit, the controversy was about Doom. Now it
> surrounds Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
The Columbine lawsuits against game companies were dismissed long ago. Get
with the times, Shawna!
Mike
Its not even out yet, how can you even put it on the shelf?
Unbelievable
"Commander Riker" <darkco...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:be61bb4c.02100...@posting.google.com...
john doe
right, woman. :P
"Commander Riker" <darkco...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:be61bb4c.02100...@posting.google.com...
Steve's SVT
"HC" <swo...@futile.com> wrote in message
news:kqKo9.6529$ZO1.6...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Larry Durst
moped as a walker, but they have opinions, which is why you take those
opinions, stuff them in a big ass pile of shit, put it all in a brown paper
bag, set it on thier porch, then light it up and watch those crazy fools!
Larry Durst
8-Bit Star
HC wrote:
> Dear Shawna Jackson,
>
> I hope someone suck out your eyeball and skullfuck your fat ass.
You don't like to be informed, do you?
>
>
> Have a nice day.
Quiet Desperation
<Hookedonphon...@what.com> wrote:
> It's theese damn video games.
Actually, when I heard about the sniper shootings in the D.C. area, my
first thought was of doing the same thing from the parking structure in
GTA3. :-o
RugflappeR
possibly mean.... .we can't keep it on the shelf with the other games.....
kind of like XxX magazines in some bookstores...
behind the counter?!
=)
RugflappeR
"Mike" <mike...@nospamattbi.com> wrote in message
news:N9Lo9.18082$7I6....@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
Eric W.
abracadabra
"Commander Riker" <darkco...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:be61bb4c.02100...@posting.google.com...
> By Shawna Jackson
> The Auburn Plainsman (Auburn U.) <http://www.theplainsman.com/>
>
> July 12, 2002 (U-WIRE)
>
>
> AUBURN, Ala. - Killing cops, beating women and stealing cars has
> become fun and games thanks to the makers of Grand Theft Auto: Vice
> City
> According to Dave Manning, software manager of Hastings, Vice City
> might be a popular game.
> "We can't keep it on the shelf," Manning said.
> Vice City is rated M, for mature audiences only, which means that only
> people 17 or older may buy the game. Vice City was rated M because of
> its graphic violence, blood, sexual content and criminal activity.
> The game is about a thug working for a Japanese gang whose mission is
> to steal cars, perform hits, run drugs and commit other crimes.
WAHAHAHA - thanks for the post. There's always some moron in the Press that
will totally screw things up just to get a story. I notice that the idiotic
press totally missed Microsoft Flight Simulator, the game that the
terrorists from 9/11 trained on to hit the WTC.
> Points are given for running over pedestrians, shooting innocent
> bystanders and killing police officers.
Yeah, this was certainly a well researched story. DId you make this up?
Grant Anderson
news:vyLo9.336$rC.6...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> VICE CITY IS GONNA BE THE SHIT
Brown, smelly and no-one wants to be around it?
Grant Anderson
news:ao09u2$ktk$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Sorry, that should be: "brown, smelly and played with by deviants?"
Brad BARCLAY
> Violent video game causes national controversy
> By Shawna Jackson
> The Auburn Plainsman (Auburn U.) <http://www.theplainsman.com/>
>
> July 12, 2002 (U-WIRE)
>
>
> AUBURN, Ala. - Killing cops, beating women and stealing cars has
> become fun and games thanks to the makers of Grand Theft Auto: Vice
> City
> According to Dave Manning, software manager of Hastings, Vice City
> might be a popular game.
> "We can't keep it on the shelf," Manning said.
Wow, what a load of BS, all in such a tiny little space.
First off, GTA: Vice City hasn't even been released yet, and won't be
for several weeks. It will have been MONTHS from when this article
purportedly was written (July 12, 2002).
Nice "Find and Replace" job there. Here's the URL to the original
article, which was actually about GTA3. It doesn't mention GTA: Vice
City _once_:
http://www.theplainsman.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2002/07/11/3d2d39271c6db?in_archive=1
This has to be the worst FUD attempt I've ever seen -- and I've seen
them all.
Brad BARCLAY
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From the OS/2 WARP v4.5 Desktop of Brad BARCLAY.
SOCOM Clan Homepage: http://members.rogers.com/yaztromo
Billy Bissette
news:be61bb4c.02100...@posting.google.com:
> Violent video game causes national controversy
> By Shawna Jackson
> The Auburn Plainsman (Auburn U.) <http://www.theplainsman.com/>
>
> July 12, 2002 (U-WIRE)
>
>
> AUBURN, Ala. - Killing cops, beating women and stealing cars has
> become fun and games thanks to the makers of Grand Theft Auto: Vice
> City
> According to Dave Manning, software manager of Hastings, Vice City
> might be a popular game.
> "We can't keep it on the shelf," Manning said.
> Vice City is rated M, for mature audiences only, which means that only
> people 17 or older may buy the game.
What an amazing shop that is. Constantly selling out of a game that
hadn't been released yet, much less released back in July when the article
is attributed.
Good job that reporter did, uncovering the secret release of the game
well before it was finished. :p I hope they used the same level of
fact-checking on the rest of the article they wrote.
Brad BARCLAY
> It seems she doesn't even seem to know she's speaking of GTA3 - get it
> right, woman. :P
Do a bit of research before putting any blame on Ms. Shawna Jackson
(whomever she is) -- "Commander Riker" doctored the original article,
which was about GTA3, and can be found here:
http://www.theplainsman.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2002/07/11/3d2d39271c6db?in_archive=1
Brad BARCLAY
> Actually, when I heard about the sniper shootings in the D.C. area, my
> first thought was of doing the same thing from the parking structure in
> GTA3. :-o
Not too far off from my first thought -- wondering how long it would be
before someone blames violent video games for disturbed individual like
this.
Last night while I was playing SOCOM one of my teammates told us he
lives just down the street from where the latest shooting occured.
People out there are understandably scared. I don't support capital
punishment at all, but part of me hopes that when they find the
individual responsible that it's in the act, and that they won't give
the police any option except to take them down right then and there.
HC
fucking die already you worthless pigs.
Adrian Wood
> I think I forgot to mention... god damn I motherfucking hate americans...
> fucking die already you worthless pigs.
And to the other newsgroups this whole stupid thread has been cross-posted
too, I would like to point out that post shouldn't be taken to indicate the
average intelligence of a GTA3 player. HC there obviously has some personal
issues he needs to resolve. ;)
I'd also like to state that, believe it or not, most people can tell the
difference between fantasy and reality. GTA3 is a GAME. Remember that word,
game? You want to get rid of violent videogames, fine. Go ahead. Just so
long as you also get rid of all other forms of violence in any other form of
entertainment or media too. Say goodbye to all the big action movies, all
the gangsta rap music, a hell of a lot of TV, and a ton of other stuff.
It'll be the start of the death of freedom of speech, and the people who
just believed what was in the paper, without deciding to think for
themselves, will be to blame.
Stop trying to scapegoat games with the sort of badly-written,
unrepresentative crap you get *without fail* in these sorts of news stories,
and take them for what they are; a harmless diversion, maybe a bit of
what-if fantasy, nothing more.
Now, if you don't mind, I'm off to blow up passing cars with my rocket
launcher, spit fireballs at passing turtles, and then get in my spaceship to
take on the Galaxians. See you!
--
"...and if u argue then your stupid cuz its odvius im right so dont say
anythin!!!!!11" - Every Internet debater ever.
bengee
news:081020021905281338%nos...@nospam.com...
I know the feeling. When i run across the road to put a new parking
ticket on my car, i kinda get this weird feeling of being inside GTA3.
Then when i see the old granny walking along with her zimmer frame,
that's when it all clicks into place. I just can't help getting my
AK-47 out and popping off everyone in sight!
bengee
bengee
> Dear Shawna Jackson,
>
> I hope someone suck out your eyeball and skullfuck your fat ass.
>
> Have a nice day.
Which game have you playing too much of? :-)
bengee
AxL
Billy Bissette <bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
>darkco...@yahoo.com (Commander Riker) wrote in
>news:be61bb4c.02100...@posting.google.com:
>
>> Violent video game causes national controversy
>> By Shawna Jackson
>> The Auburn Plainsman (Auburn U.) <http://www.theplainsman.com/>
>>
>> July 12, 2002 (U-WIRE)
>>
>>
>> AUBURN, Ala. - Killing cops, beating women and stealing cars has
>> become fun and games thanks to the makers of Grand Theft Auto: Vice
>> City
>> According to Dave Manning, software manager of Hastings, Vice City
>> might be a popular game.
>> "We can't keep it on the shelf," Manning said.
>> Vice City is rated M, for mature audiences only, which means that only
>> people 17 or older may buy the game.
>
> What an amazing shop that is. Constantly selling out of a game that
>hadn't been released yet, much less released back in July when the article
>is attributed.
Actually, whoever posted this doctored the original message a bit.
The journalist was really writing about the original GTA3.
http://www.theplainsman.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2002/07/11/3d2d39271c6db?in_archive=1
The article is still retarded, but I have no idea why someone needed to
rehash this from July.
--
-AxL, a...@wpcr.plymouth.edu "In Christianity, neither morality nor religion
a...@mail.plymouth.edu Come into contact with reality at any point."
http://mindwarp.plymouth.edu/~axl - Nietzsche
snoob schreef
are smoking...
"Commander Riker" <darkco...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:be61bb4c.02100...@posting.google.com...
> Violent video game causes national controversy
> By Shawna Jackson
> The Auburn Plainsman (Auburn U.) <http://www.theplainsman.com/>
>
> July 12, 2002 (U-WIRE)
>
>
> AUBURN, Ala. - Killing cops, beating women and stealing cars has
> become fun and games thanks to the makers of Grand Theft Auto: Vice
> City
> According to Dave Manning, software manager of Hastings, Vice City
> might be a popular game.
> "We can't keep it on the shelf," Manning said.
> Vice City is rated M, for mature audiences only, which means that only
> people 17 or older may buy the game. Vice City was rated M because of
> its graphic violence, blood, sexual content and criminal activity.
> The game is about a thug working for a Japanese gang whose mission is
> to steal cars, perform hits, run drugs and commit other crimes.
> Points are given for running over pedestrians, shooting innocent
> bystanders and killing police officers.
> surrounds Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
Hugh Raver
Riker) wrote:
>Violent video game causes national controversy
>By Shawna Jackson
>The Auburn Plainsman (Auburn U.) <http://www.theplainsman.com/>
>
>July 12, 2002 (U-WIRE)
*Much fucking nitwit dispshit Aubie nonsense snipped*
Sounds like some Aubie dipshit is jealous that GTA:VC is PS2 only.
Wah-wah-wah.
gat...@socrates.berkeley.edu
: Australia hasn't banned vice city, I don't know what the fuck these people
: are smoking...
OK, this may be an unpopular opinion, but I think it's irresponsible to
say "anything and everything goes" in the entertainment business as long
as we slap a "mature" sticker on the product. A lot of people on this group
seem to make the point that we all know the difference between fantasy and
reality, and that therefore "it's just a game" and we should allow the
makers to put whatever they want into it.
I'm no right-wing moralist by any stretch of the imagination. I even
enjoyed playing "State of Emergency." But I think a line has to be drawn
somewhere over what gets to be depicted in entertainment. Beating and
murdering prostitutes, running over innocent people on the street, etc.
are apparently "OK" to most of you. Fine, so is there anything you think
*should* be forbidden? Rape? Pedophilia? Necrophilia?
It might just be me, but I wouldn't really want to see the entertainment
industry go in the direction of accepting that kind of thing. And I can
certainly see that it would have a detrimental effect on society as a whole.
Particularly with the 1% of people who really are f@#*ed up enough to
confuse video games with real life.
Erik
"bengee" <postm...@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
news:ao0ogk$qqt$1...@news0.ifb.net...
T.D.
That's because it hasn't came out. And I don't really think that "Forcelli"
sounds too Japanese.
later,
travis
Mark
Tjaart Kruger
drug pushing, prostitute killing etc. Why do they feel nessecary to put that
in games? To show that games have matured? That is a very cheap and nasty
way. You could have GTA 3 in another setup with some of those elements not
there, and still it would be a nice game. Do they really think 12 -16 year
olds are going to be stopped if a box have a sticker on it? Wishfull
thinking guys. Don't get me wrong. I like GTA 3 a lot. It's just the
direction that things are going. Or are we one day going to have a game
which features the scene from Chow Yun Fat's "God of Gamblers II" (you know
the one) or any other ultra violent movie, and we are just going to shrug it
of, because it's a game?
I agree, we see stuff like this IRL too often anyway. Why see it on the
games we play?
Don't ban it. Tone it down
Tjaart
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I mostly animate at night.... mostly...
The little critters of nature... They don't know they're ugly!
- The happy happy joy joy song (Ren & stimpy)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Michael Cargill
> drug pushing, prostitute killing etc. Why do they feel nessecary to put
that
> in games? To show that games have matured? That is a very cheap and nasty
> way. You could have GTA 3 in another setup with some of those elements
not
> there, and still it would be a nice game. Do they really think 12 -16
year
> olds are going to be stopped if a box have a sticker on it? Wishfull
> thinking guys. Don't get me wrong. I like GTA 3 a lot. It's just the
> direction that things are going. Or are we one day going to have a game
> which features the scene from Chow Yun Fat's "God of Gamblers II" (you
know
> the one) or any other ultra violent movie, and we are just going to shrug
it
> of, because it's a game?
People need to realise that just because THEY think it is too violent,
others DONT.
> I agree, we see stuff like this IRL too often anyway. Why see it on the
> games we play?
Because it can be fun to do it in a game.
> Don't ban it. Tone it down
Rubbish. If someone doesnt like it, then they dont have to play it.
--
Lovingly Created by Michael Cargill
------------------------------------
'Don't Be a Poof - Eat White Bread'
'You're Gonna Need a Bigger Boat' - Sheriff Brody, Jaws
Matt Miller
that the following message was delivered to alt.games.grand-theft-auto:
I tend to agree. I enjoy the hell out of GTA3, but it's not 100%
harmless. There are, of course, people who can't sort out fantasy and
reality. But more significantly there are who can sort it all out, but
these games are still mental illness fuel for them.
If I were a parent I wouldn't allow the game in the house. I
wouldn't support government sponsored censorship however.
--
Matt Miller
"I wanna bite the hand that feeds me.
I wanna bite that hand so badly.
I want to make them wish they'd never seen me."
- Elvis Costello
Skye
going to destroy every other release(including PS2 releases) this year and
next.
Skye
Internet Policeman #69
Doug Jacobs
> OK, this may be an unpopular opinion, but I think it's irresponsible to
> say "anything and everything goes" in the entertainment business as long
> as we slap a "mature" sticker on the product. A lot of people on this group
> seem to make the point that we all know the difference between fantasy and
> reality, and that therefore "it's just a game" and we should allow the
> makers to put whatever they want into it.
Doesn't mean you have to play it or even like it...
Same with TV, which I think is mostly garbage nowadays with all those
tasteless "reality" shows...
> It might just be me, but I wouldn't really want to see the entertainment
> industry go in the direction of accepting that kind of thing. And I can
> certainly see that it would have a detrimental effect on society as a whole.
> Particularly with the 1% of people who really are f@#*ed up enough to
> confuse video games with real life.
I don't buy this argument unless you're also saying we should ban movies,
TV, radio, and books. Not just *some* books, or even the "naughty" ones,
I mean let's burn the entire library of congress down its foundation.
I mean, god forbid someone read something and get an *idea*...
People have been blaming video games for things for years, and yet there
hasn't been a single *valid* study that's shown that playing violent video
games makes you more violent.
Thoth
> I don't support capital punishment at all, but part of me hopes that when they
> find the individual responsible that it's in the act, and that they won't give
> the police any option except to take them down right then and there.
You certainly have ample justification for such a position, but think about it.
Wouldn't you like to see this(these) creep(s) captured so we could hear his(their)
story? I'd like to know how these people got so messed up.
Mark
YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT PLAY IT!!!! DEAL WITH IT XBOX FANS! YOU WONT GET YOUR
HANDS ON ANYTHING GTA FOR AT LEAST 5 YEARS.
Sorry guys.
Doug Jacobs
> I agree, we see stuff like this IRL too often anyway. Why see it on the
> games we play?
> Don't ban it. Tone it down
How about just ignore it?
If you think the game is too violent, don't buy it.
I think GTA is too violent in some ways, so I haven't bought it.
I think 'The Anna Nicole Smith' show is tasteless drek, so I don't watch it.
Herman McClain
Is this REALLY the land of the FREE?
We're bitching over a fucking video game!
Meanwhile, we're planning to go to war with
Iraq. The irony, half of our U.S. Troops are
at least 18 years of age carrying REAL GUNS
with intentions of killing foreigners.
Herman McClain
video games!
Steve's SVT wrote:
> You are seriously disturbed.
Quiet Desperation
<postm...@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
> I know the feeling. When i run across the road to put a new parking
> ticket on my car, i kinda get this weird feeling of being inside GTA3.
> Then when i see the old granny walking along with her zimmer frame,
> that's when it all clicks into place. I just can't help getting my
> AK-47 out and popping off everyone in sight!
Of when that guy cuts me off on the freeway... I look at my full size
truck... I look at his little tiny sports-thing... I do the math... and
return to my senses. ;-)
Leo
player need.
Video games are lo longer just for kids.
Your making it sound like games are something sacrate that should not
be subject to the same standards as the rest of the entertainment
industry.
Movies, music, books, theater, games....it's all entertainment. Games
have a rating system just like movies and music do. Your going to show
nudity and gratuitous violence in movies and TV and hear just about
any word you can think of in music lyrics then put it all in games
too and rate the game accordingly. It's very simple, you don't like it
don't buy it.
Sure you will have your 12-16 year olds sneaking these adult content
games and playing them just like they are now and always have been
sneaking peaks at playboy and porn tapes. Big fucking deal. It will
probably keep them off the streets and out of trouble.
I've Got A Loverly Bunch Of Coconuts
That was you, eh? Learn to drive! And get a vehicle that handles properly.
What do you haul in that thing, anyway?
M. Murr
If people don't like it don't play it. If you don't like a movie or TV
show don't watch it...I get more than just sick of the whiners in the U.S.
who are always bitching about something. And to see where this country is
heading just look at how a few whiny ass cry babies can take away what the
majority enjoy...This is where America is going. Me, I dont give a shit if
my whole neighborhood roams around naked as long as they are not bothering
me. Some people need to learn that if you don't like it don't do it...and
don't expect others to not do it because some do like it...Shit now I am
rambling...I hope some with a little of the now extinct common sense
understand. This country is headed for hell with the one whiner ruin it
for all. It is just a game and if someone can't tell the fucking
difference put their ass in the nearest mental home and feed them
daily...aaaaah screw it.
Brad BARCLAY
Yes -- I don't believe in captivating someone and then eventually
killing them at someone elses leisure -- hence the reason why I don't
support capital punishment. It doesn't act as a deterent, and only
promotes the idea of vengence within society at large -- and vengence
has no useful place in the justice system.
I do however support the police's right to prevent someone from harming
another -- which is why I have no problem with them taking down someone
who is threatening the imminant harm/death of another if no other
mechanism can be employed to prevent them from carrying out such a threat.
Would I want to hear how someone got to that point? Not really. It
serves little useful purpose. First off, you don't really have any
useful way of telling wether or not their story is truth. And even if
what they say is true, there is no justification for what they're doing.
And secondly, their explaination won't do anybody any good -- it won't
bring back the dead, it won't make the families feel any better, and all
that it will do is generate fear in the population at large, many of
whom will take stupid knee-jerk reactions thinking they're going to
prevent such a thing from ever happening to themselves or others.
I just hope they do catch the person responsible. Nobody should have
to live in fear of walking down the street (although this is
unfortunately common in many parts of the world), and no more lives
should be uselessly wasted in such a cowardly way.
And I also hope that when they do find the person(s) responsible, they
don't find a copy of GTA3 in their possession in their homes, because
then a big long line of those who want to dictate to you and me that our
morality should match their ideas, and those who would love to be the
limiters of freedom of speech and freedom of ideas would crawl out of
the woodwork and get those who should otherwise know better to support
their own extremist views.
Brad BARCLAY
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From the OS/2 WARP v4.5 Desktop of Brad BARCLAY.
SOCOM Clan Homepage: http://members.rogers.com/yaztromo
Reflector
I live in australia, and already the promo boxes are out in shops. I
believe that the australian version has been censored slightly, but has NOT
been banned. Shawna Jackson, should not be a journalist if she is going to
make up, twist, or distort the truth, just so that it fits her biased story.
Reflector
Kevin Sullivan
That article was originally about GTA3. The guy who posted it altered
it to be about Vice City which is why the article talks about the game
flying off the shelves when it isn't even out yet.
8-Bit Star
gat...@socrates.Berkeley.EDU wrote:
There's already been games about Rape--Custer's Revenge. And it didn't
drive anyone bonkers.
In answer to your question, yea there is one thing I will avoid at all costs:
Potty humor. Fortunately, that mostly means I miss the various South Park
games.
8-Bit Star
Tjaart Kruger wrote:
> The games industry ( and players ) don't need the excessive violence and
> drug pushing, prostitute killing etc. Why do they feel nessecary to put that
> in games? To show that games have matured? That is a very cheap and nasty
> way. You could have GTA 3 in another setup with some of those elements not
> there, and still it would be a nice game. Do they really think 12 -16 year
> olds are going to be stopped if a box have a sticker on it? Wishfull
> thinking guys. Don't get me wrong. I like GTA 3 a lot. It's just the
> direction that things are going. Or are we one day going to have a game
> which features the scene from Chow Yun Fat's "God of Gamblers II" (you know
> the one) or any other ultra violent movie, and we are just going to shrug it
> of, because it's a game?
>
> I agree, we see stuff like this IRL too often anyway. Why see it on the
> games we play?
You have a point here in that games are meant to be escapism, not a rehash
of reality. This is probably why Games are the way they are--the world is
too goody good nowadays, and we need more chaos! If World War 3 starts
anytime soon, you can expect a revival of patriotic heroic fantasy (Wow, yet
ANOTHER marketting gimmick for Captain America).
Jason Young
"8-Bit Star" <nes_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3DA5616E...@hotmail.com...
>
> You have a point here in that games are meant to be escapism, not a rehash
> of reality. This is probably why Games are the way they are--the world is
> too goody good nowadays, and we need more chaos!
What!? We need more war? More terrorist bombings? More sniper attacks?
More school shootings? More corporate fraud? More racism? More
murders?!?! MORE CHAOS?!?! Are you mad?!?!
What he need is more humanity!
>If World War 3 starts
> anytime soon, you can expect a revival of patriotic heroic fantasy (Wow,
yet
> ANOTHER marketting gimmick for Captain America).
And another million brutally killed...now there's a good marketing gimick.
J
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Scott H
"Commander Riker" <darkco...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:be61bb4c.02100...@posting.google.com...
> Violent video game causes national controversy
> By Shawna Jackson
> The Auburn Plainsman (Auburn U.) <http://www.theplainsman.com/>
>
> Players can take a break with a prostitute and then get their money
> back by beating the prostitute to death.
> In May 2002, shortly after Australia's decision to ban Vice City, USA
> Today quoted David Walsh, head of the National Institute on Media and
> the Family, a Minnesota-based media watchdog organization, as saying
That's funny. I played the GTAIII and what I spent most of the time doing
was playing vigilante. I avoided pedestrians, if I could, and never did
anything of that silly prostitute business. People should take
responsibility for their actions, even if they're virtual.
Scott H
"Commander Riker" <darkco...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:be61bb4c.02100...@posting.google.com...
> Violent video game causes national controversy
> By Shawna Jackson
> The Auburn Plainsman (Auburn U.) <http://www.theplainsman.com/>
>
> This censorship is primarily because of strong sexual violence.
> Players can take a break with a prostitute and then get their money
> back by beating the prostitute to death.
> In May 2002, shortly after Australia's decision to ban Vice City, USA
> Today quoted David Walsh, head of the National Institute on Media and
> the Family, a Minnesota-based media watchdog organization, as saying
That's funny. I played GTAIII and what I spent most of the time doing
billnes
Dear Friend,
Lay off the pipe - put simply, you are a troll. Besides this document, I
have never seen you post anything on any video game NG. The fact that you
crossposted to many other NG's proves beyong any shadow of a doubt that your
only real pourpose is to be a flame-war starting troll. I use video game
systems like the PSX and MAME for the PC for lighthearted escapism. I use
the Game NG's for the same. I work very hard, after a long, hard day I enjoy
the humourous, lighthearted banter found on the game NG's. I really don't
want such a heavy handed subject here.
I am really suprised to see how many people responded to the flame-bait you
posted. This includes myself. Usually, if you ignore pople that post
flame-bait, the poster will see no responces and just move on. When people
respond to flame-bait, it motovates that poster to post even more outragous
shit. This leads to tons of useless shit that is OT, wastes bandwidth, and
reduces the overall quality of the NG. Commander, will you please pack up
your shit and go to alt.talking.shit.nobody.reads.
Regards,
Bill "The Colonel" N. - Long Island, New York
"Commander Riker" <darkco...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:be61bb4c.02100...@posting.google.com...
> Violent video game causes national controversy
> By Shawna Jackson
> The Auburn Plainsman (Auburn U.) <http://www.theplainsman.com/>
<<>> FLAME-BAIT SNIPED TO SAVE BANDWIDTH <<>>
Doug Jacobs
> There's already been games about Rape--Custer's Revenge. And it didn't
> drive anyone bonkers.
Well...remember that this game was an Atari 2600 cartridge, and was mainly
done as a joke. It wasn't liscensed by Atari, and it wasn't for sale at your
local store.
I remember the local news station did a story about it. They showed the
game without any censorship until you got "Custer" over to the "Indian
princess", then you just saw little black censor bars while the game made
"wakka wakka" noises.
Being a 2600 cart, the graphics weren't very good... In fact, if they hadn't
told me what the real point of the game was, you'd think this blobby white
dude was trying to save this grey blobby dude (my family didn't have color
TV at the time ;) while avoiding random arrows that rained down.
Of course, that didn't stop the newscasters from saying that video games were
evil and should be gotten rid of because they were nothing but bad influences.
There was also Death Race 2000 which WAS a liscensed game from Atari, and
put you behind the wheel running over white dots ("pedistrians.") I think
the game got renamed to something else.
Doug Jacobs
You mean half our army is underage?? I don't think so...
Speaking of the army, have you seen the recruitment ad featuring the little
boy playing with airplanes as he grows up, and then suddenly he's in the
Air Force flying a remote controlled plane?
Yep, that's right boys and girls... War's really a nifty VIDEO GAME!
One of the more disgusting things I've seen on TV in awhile...
getting kevin j
> "8-Bit Star" <nes_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3DA5616E...@hotmail.com...
> >
> > You have a point here in that games are meant to be escapism, not a rehash
> > of reality. This is probably why Games are the way they are--the world is
> > too goody good nowadays, and we need more chaos!
>
> What!? We need more war? More terrorist bombings? More sniper attacks?
> More school shootings? More corporate fraud? More racism? More
> murders?!?! MORE CHAOS?!?! Are you mad?!?!
>
> What he need is more humanity!
How about less media attention around such things? How about more good
media sources that know what news is and how to cover it appropriately?
> >If World War 3 starts
> > anytime soon, you can expect a revival of patriotic heroic fantasy (Wow, yet
> > ANOTHER marketting gimmick for Captain America).
>
> And another million brutally killed...now there's a good marketing gimick.
WW3 = Billions.
They don't call it 'nuclear holocaust' for nothing.
Quiet Desperation
Bunch Of Coconuts <Slartib...@hugh.jass.org> wrote:
> That was you, eh? Learn to drive! And get a vehicle that handles properly.
> What do you haul in that thing, anyway?
DEATH!!!! :-D
THE BAY
We are all entitled to one and ours don't match. feel free to not like mine
because as a person who don't give a shit what the other guy does, I could
care less Good day!
Doug Jacobs
>> And another million brutally killed...now there's a good marketing gimick.
> WW3 = Billions.
> They don't call it 'nuclear holocaust' for nothing.
Oh come now... Since the USSR went away, the chances of an all out nuclear
exchange have gone down drastically.
If WW3 does break out, it's going to use conventional weapons for the most
part. If any nukes are used, they're going to be small - we're talking
a couple of KT - not the city destroying mutli-MT weapons.
And as we've seen, the biggest threat the US faces isn't from weapons of
mass destruction...
rob
other night. I want the fucker dead. Shot on site, head cut off, and
presented for all to see. Don't care why he did it.
"Thoth" <"(GPH)Thoth"@notlisted.net> wrote in message
news:3DA4A68A...@notlisted.net...
rob
"Skye" <carolina...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cm0p9.3534$rC.1...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> The only people that want Vice City banned are shitBox and GC fanboys.
It's
> going to destroy every other release(including PS2 releases) this year and
> next.
>
> Skye
>
>
Skye
released, and Halo) and it's sold 7 million copies already. Hype didn't do
that. Quality gameplay did that. The hope of more of that quality is fueling
presales of GTAVC.
Skye
"rob" <bigbr...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:Q4Jp9.107711$IL6.5...@news2.east.cox.net...
|[ nemesis ]|
drugs. You dont get points for running people over, or shooting
people...unless u take their money. and it was not banned in australia...it
was censored.....the hookers were taken out and vice city isnt banned here
either....and if it is innapropriate for kids then stop complaining cos its
rated M......ahhh idiots
"Commander Riker" <darkco...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:be61bb4c.02100...@posting.google.com...
|[ nemesis ]|
8-Bit Star
Doug Jacobs wrote:
Besides that, everyone by now knows of the massive drawbacks of Nukes,
drawbacks which make them worthless as any more than scare tactics.
Psychological tactics are the play today.
minime
> GTA3 wasn't hyped last year (all last year was GC and Xbox systems being
> released, and Halo) and it's sold 7 million copies already. Hype didn't do
> that. Quality gameplay did that. The hope of more of that quality is
fueling
> presales of GTAVC.
>
> Skye
What's that from rob?
*crickets chirping in background*
JR
years old and I enjoyed GTA3 and Metal Gear Solid 2, but it doesn't mean I'm
gonna go out and kill someone just because I played a game. I enjoy
playing starwars games too, does that mean I'm gonna pick up a knife and
think it's a lightsaber and start using the force?!!?
"Jason Young" <jo...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:Imdp9.3673$d21.1...@news.bellsouth.net...
rob
Charles Doane
JR wrote:
> It's ONLY a fricken GAME!!!
Yes, it is. However there are some people who don't or won't
understand that.
> People need to stop being so sensitive.
That, in a nutshell, is what games are accused of causing. The
critics of video gaming claim that these games desensitize players
to the horror of violence and present violence as a viable solution.
> I am 30 years old and I enjoyed GTA3 and Metal Gear Solid 2, but it
> doesn't mean I'm gonna go out and kill someone just because I played
> a game.
Most people won't. By the pro-censors' own data, more than 92% of
teen boys play video games. It's fairly obvious that there's no
92% of teen boys engaged in violence, or even 2%. It's so rare
that when it happens it makes national news.
http://www.ag.state.il.us/programs/violentvideogames/factsheet.htm
However, the pro-censorship lobby bases their case on a small
lunatic fringe (whom I shall refer to as "idiots"). There are
indeed idiots who light cats on fire after seeing it on the MTV
cartoon "Beavis and Butthead". There are indeed idiots who try
to pull pro-wrestling moves in arenas in their back yards after
seeing them on TV. There are idiots who try to fly on broomsticks
after seeing Harry Potter do it in a movie. These idiots exist.
The danger of basing content restriction to suit these idiots
is that all content will soon only be suitable for idiots.
--
Oh, oh. Here come those crazy aliens again. Help me, Elllleeot!
Help me get home! (Atari 2600 E.T. manual, worst game ever made)
rob
make the kids walk down the street. I will carjack someone, and run them
over. I'll stop the car, get out, and gun them down in cold blood to finish
the job.
I'll then drive down to the local streetcorner, honk at a hooker, and she'll
get in my car. The car will bounce up and down, and she'll get out. I'll
be so rejuvenated, I'll be able to go to child-idiot number two in no time.
Along the way I'll do some dangerous jumps with my car and maybe get
involved in organized crime.
No influences necessary, you see.
"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3DA9B6E...@mindspring.com...
Doug Jacobs
> Besides that, everyone by now knows of the massive drawbacks of Nukes,
> drawbacks which make them worthless as any more than scare tactics.
> Psychological tactics are the play today.
A nuke isn't going to throw much scare into a solider in my opinion.
It's instant death. The only thing the US could do is threaten a civilian
target (eg. a city) which is only going to anger people more.
Besides, Saddam's bunkers are deep enough underground that a nuke isn't
going to bother him.
Very small, "clean" nuclear devices could be used against armored buildings
or even an aircraft carrier...but I don't think Saddam has any of these ;)
Anyways I think those fuel-air-explosive bombs we've developed for
anti-personel and armor are a lot scarier. They literally suck the air out
of your lungs as they burn you alive. Nasty.
As for Saddam's bunkers, would they be that effective if we buried a small
nuke near one and set it off? If nothing else, it might collapse the
mountainside, making it easier to strike with conventional weapons.
Matthew Sosnowski
> As for Saddam's bunkers, would they be that effective if we buried a small
> nuke near one and set it off? If nothing else, it might collapse the
> mountainside, making it easier to strike with conventional weapons.
hell, why not bring out the mustard gas?
kosmo3
I can just picture this d00d yelling!! GOOD DAY!!!!!
in article 3DA62ECE...@msn.com, THE BAY at X...@msn.com wrote on
10/10/02 7:52 PM:
Jake
> I mean.. who cares about drugs, tobacco, and alcohol?
>
Off topic, but why in God's name does everyone list drugs and alcohol
separately?
Destroy
>>
>
>
> Off topic, but why in God's name does everyone list drugs and alcohol
> separately?
>
>
Cause one's legal and the other is not.
Jonathan Timar
"Jake" <mor...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:WM1t9.7456$071.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
on that note, why do they list tobacco separatly?
Jake
Jake
Plenty of drugs are legal, including alcohol.
Thoth
Hehe. Which one is legal? Asprin or underage consumption?
Dean Siren
>> separately?
>
> on that note, why do they list tobacco separatly?
Alcohol and tobacco are harmful in different ways. Many cultures consider it OK
to give children some alcohol.
Jake
Jonathan Timar
"Dean Siren" <d...@iu.net> wrote in message
news:urakk9m...@corp.supernews.com...
That means, nothing, and it certainly doesn't mean that alcohol isn't
harmful. Not that I am against drinking, it's fine when you are in control,
but many people are not able to control thier drinking, as it is habit
forming, and can do a number on your liver.
ash_n...@hotmail.com
<1qu...@grandnational.com> wrotE:
so what if its rated M. i dont care if its rated XXX i'm still going
to buy it!!! and I'll still let my brothers and sister play it (8, 10
and 11 years old) and my mum and dad still wont care.
Doug Jacobs
So nice to hear about responsible parenting. :p
Doug Jacobs
> Off topic, but why in God's name does everyone list drugs and alcohol
> separately?
'Cause drugs are "bad" and alcohol isn't "bad" so long as you only drink
in moderation. At least that's what the bible says, and lord knows the
bible is never wrong.
Reminds me of that scene in Traffic, where the new Drug Czar is at a party
where *everyone* is talking about the "drug problem" puffing cigarettes and
gulping booze.
Daniel Geoghegan
And you know that - that type of behaviour in reality is not acceptable then
I think you should be able to play GTA.
<ash_n...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3db6a887...@news.ncl.ac.uk...
Sam
As I can say I have played GTA 3 AND Vice city, First I am 36 years
old and have not one shred of violence like in these games in my
nature. But these game are popular because they are "FUN" . Just like
killing Aliens in Space Invaders was Fun. The BIG Difference is that
the games have really turned to the violent sides and teaching this to
"kids" may not be a great idea. All of us wonder what it would be
like to outrun cops in a chase, but not actually kill or murder...but
this is where the part of inner human nature takes over... Same idea
of why people look at a car accident scene or slow down to look.
People see cars smashed to pieces , but slow down to see horror and
death. Something to think about. ARE THESE GAMES THEMSELVES DANGEROUS?
That depends on who plays them.
If a person like John mohamad the sniper or malvo plays these games
...it might give them "ideas". Because their wiring is messed up to
begin with.
Should they be banned? HARD TO SAY if you think its too violent don't
buy them...its a character on the screen...what worries me though is
when video games get very realistic and the characters to more
lifelike... this might get us into a mess. comtrolling human like
images and their deaths.
Please don't flame me beacause this subject is very complicated with
many many views... I am not sure what is the real answer.
Gotta go now and try and finish Vice City Game. :-) Sam
Steven Hurdle
> As I can say I have played GTA 3 AND Vice city, First I am 36 years
> old and have not one shred of violence like in these games in my
> nature. But these game are popular because they are "FUN" . Just like
> killing Aliens in Space Invaders was Fun. The BIG Difference is that
> the games have really turned to the violent sides and teaching this to
> "kids" may not be a great idea.
I think the big difference is that killing aliens bent on global conquest
is self-defence. Killing a prostitute and stealing her money is something
else yet again.
> All of us wonder what it would be like to outrun cops in a chase,
At the risk of sounding excessively type-1 on the Enneagram, I don't
fantasise about stuff like that personally. I don't fantasise about being a
villain.
> but not actually kill or murder...but
> this is where the part of inner human nature takes over... Same idea
> of why people look at a car accident scene or slow down to look.
> People see cars smashed to pieces , but slow down to see horror and
> death.
Do all people look hoping to see horror and death? I thought it was more
morbid curiosity than a desire to see horror and death.
> Something to think about. ARE THESE GAMES THEMSELVES DANGEROUS?
For the most part they're just in terribly poor taste IMO, but in the
hands of the very impressionable (not just the young, but the impressionable
at whatever age) it's potentially different.
> Should they be banned? HARD TO SAY if you think its too violent don't
> buy them...its a character on the screen...what worries me though is
> when video games get very realistic and the characters to more
> lifelike... this might get us into a mess. comtrolling human like
> images and their deaths.
They're already getting plenty realistic, if you ask me. It's not that
they can't get more so, but they're already pretty dang realistic.
> Please don't flame me beacause this subject is very complicated with
> many many views... I am not sure what is the real answer.
> Gotta go now and try and finish Vice City Game. :-) Sam
I see no rational reason why anyone should flame you, no worries. :) I
do however have no interest in playing a GTA game (I passed on GTA2 on my
Dreamcast and have no interest in the PC versions of GTA3 and GTA:VC). I
prefer reluctant heroes and anti-heroes, not amoral characters or
out-and-out villains as protagonists.
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Version: 6.0.406 / Virus Database: 229 - Release Date: 2002-10-23
anyname
Andy F
intended to be realistic death and carnage. The whole game is a bit tongue
in cheek and although it is not suitable for young impressionable minds I am
sure most sensible adults have no difficulty telling the difference between
reality and computer games. On the whole computer games are about violence
and killing because thats what people want in a game, it is all about
fantasy, being able to do the things that you could not or should not do in
reality and as such IMOA are a release for violent urges not the cause. I
would never dream of running over police and pedestrians but the idea is
that Its not hurting any one to flatten a group of pixels.On the whole I do
not agree with censorship in any form as I don't think what we watch say or
think is the business of any but are selves. If this material did deprave
and corrupt then surely the censors would be the most mixed up people on
earth as they spend their lives endlessly watching material that they then
decide is not appropriate for anyone else. This is totally hypocritical and
patronising.As long as age limits are strictly obeyed then adults should be
able to choose what is appropriate viewing
"Sam" <Samue...@AOL.COM> wrote in message
news:d18145fd.02103...@posting.google.com...
RickB
"Steven Hurdle" <ya...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
news:_88w9.617505$v53.26...@news3.calgary.shaw.ca...
> "Sam" <Samue...@AOL.COM> wrote
>
> > As I can say I have played GTA 3 AND Vice city, First I am 36 years
> > old and have not one shred of violence like in these games in my
> > nature. But these game are popular because they are "FUN" . Just like
> > killing Aliens in Space Invaders was Fun. The BIG Difference is that
> > the games have really turned to the violent sides and teaching this to
> > "kids" may not be a great idea.
>
> I think the big difference is that killing aliens bent on global
conquest
> is self-defence. Killing a prostitute and stealing her money is something
> else yet again.
>
> > All of us wonder what it would be like to outrun cops in a chase,
>
> At the risk of sounding excessively type-1 on the Enneagram, I don't
> fantasise about stuff like that personally. I don't fantasise about being
a
> villain.
>
No, you just want to be a flat out murderer when Unreal Championship comes
out, right? And let me guess you don't buy any games on any of the systems
that contain: blood, gore, violence, weapons, vehicles you can drive outside
the lines with???? Sounds like someone is trying to sound like a grownup
but forgot to take his diapers off first.
RickB
RickB
"anyname" <joedel...@lyREMOVEMEcos.co.uk> wrote in message
news:us24rkf...@corp.supernews.com...
> is it coming out for the xbox?????
>
>
Nope.
RickB
AxL
I hear the XBox is getting State of Emergency though, which
unfortunately was not as great as it first appeared to be. Thank god
for EB's liberal return policies, heh.
--
-AxL, a...@wpcr.plymouth.edu "In Christianity, neither morality nor religion
a...@mail.plymouth.edu Come into contact with reality at any point."
http://mindwarp.plymouth.edu/~axl - Nietzsche
DSpezzano
> old and have not one shred of violence like in these games in my
> nature. But these game are popular because they are "FUN" . Just like
> killing Aliens in Space Invaders was Fun.
Well I'm 36 too and like you can play these games without wanting to go kill
someone, but I think you're kidding yourself if you think the reason these
games are popular is because they are fun. Maybe to you and older gamers
thats the case, but to Johnny Pimple Prick it's just cool to be 15 and play
a criminal. Plus in case you forget, when your that age it is cool to be
"into" what everyone else is, possibly another reason for it's popularity.
Just look at some of the posters in this or any forum to get an idea that we
(the 36 year olds) are not the norm.
I haven't bought VC yet, I may not. I still own GTA3, but I find I can't
play it for more than a few days before I get extremly bored. Yes, it's fun
and funny, I show it off to mine or my wife's friends when they come over
but I can't see what makes it so popular besides it's mature content.
Stacey
"RickB" <rber...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:WCaw9.31906$wG.9...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
RickB
"Stacey" <stave5...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:aGcw9.44774$TX.13...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> Jerk Alert
>
Awww, did I upset you?? Tough Shit!!
RickB
Billy J. Dancefloor
> Maybe to you and older gamers thats the case, but to
> Johnny Pimple Prick it's just cool to be 15 and play
> a criminal.
"johnny pimple prick"
i like it.