What's the most important game ever?
SSJ4 Eric
DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
games in each genre? I made my own personal list:
Fighting: Yie Ar Kung Fu
Strategy: Warcraft
FPS: DOOM
Sports: Madden NFL
Platformer: Super Mario Bros.
Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
3rd Person Shooter: Tomb Raider
Top Down Shooter: Raiden (genre was perfected with Radiant Silvergun)
Action: Metal Gear
Puzzle: Tetris
RPG: Final Fantasy
Shooter: Area 51/HotD
Baet 'Em Up: Streets of Rage
But I think the most important game ever in general was Super Mario
Bros. If not for this game, we probably wouldn't be gaming now,
because of the crash.
-SSJ4ERIC
Kid Dukka
> DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
> the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
> doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
> the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
> games in each genre? I made my own personal list:
> Fighting: Yie Ar Kung Fu
Street Fighter 2
> Strategy: Warcraft
Probably, I guess. Maybe Masters of Magic?
> FPS: DOOM
Wolfenstein.
> Sports: Madden NFL
Hmmm.... Perhaps. It did take the genre to the next level.
> Platformer: Super Mario Bros.
Agreed.
> Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
> MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
Anticipation.
> 3rd Person Shooter: Tomb Raider
Probably.
> Top Down Shooter: Raiden (genre was perfected with Radiant Silvergun)
Galaga
> Action: Metal Gear
?
> Puzzle: Tetris
Definitly
> RPG: Final Fantasy
Agreed, although I prefered others.
> Shooter: Area 51/HotD
Operation Wolf.
> Baet 'Em Up: Streets of Rage
Double Dragon.
> But I think the most important game ever in general was Super Mario
> Bros. If not for this game, we prosbably wouldn't be gaming now,
> because of the crash.
Mario flagshipped it, but it was really the whole early library of many
different games from Nintendo. I bet there were more genres of games in the
first lineup of NES games than are in the whole PS2 library after this many
years.
Michael Cargill
Way of the Exploding Fist was massive on the 8 bit computers. But I reckon
Street Fighter II was the game that really made it big.
> Strategy: Warcraft
Command & Conquer was talked and raved about more than Warcraft was.
> FPS: DOOM
Yup. It certainly wasnt the first, but it was the first one to 'go big'.
> Sports: Madden NFL
That EA NHL hockey game on the mega drive.
> Platformer: Super Mario Bros.
Yeah, this was a benchmark game at the time.
> Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
> MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
Bomberman perhaps.
> 3rd Person Shooter: Tomb Raider
I personally hate TR, but I suppose it was the first hit game of its type.
> Top Down Shooter: Raiden (genre was perfected with Radiant Silvergun)
Cant really think of any others.
> Action: Metal Gear
Probotector.
> Puzzle: Tetris
Oh yes!
> RPG: Final Fantasy
Zelda?
> Shooter: Area 51/HotD
Operation Wolf!
> Baet 'Em Up: Streets of Rage
I was playing Final Fight before any of the SoR games. FF was also an
arcade game, so got to more people.
> But I think the most important game ever in general was Super Mario
> Bros. If not for this game, we probably wouldn't be gaming now,
> because of the crash.
For consoles, most definitely. I think that the home computers were doing
ok, but who knows how gaming would have turned out if the NES hadnt been
launched.
AxL
SSJ4 Eric <ssj4...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2863917,00.html
>
>DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
>the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
>doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
>the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
>games in each genre? I made my own personal list:
I'd take "most important" as meaning the game that started it all for
that genre, put it at the forefront. For example, RPG's have been
around on consoles for years but FF VII, love it or hate it, really
brought RPG games to the forefront.
>Fighting: Yie Ar Kung Fu
I'd say Street Fighter II. Not the add-ons, turbo, etc...versions,
just plain "II". Pretty much agree with the rest.
--
-AxL, a...@wpcr.plymouth.edu "In Christianity, neither morality nor religion
a...@mail.plymouth.edu Come into contact with reality at any point."
http://mindwarp.plymouth.edu/~axl - Nietzsche
Nick Zitzmann
ssj4...@hotmail.com (SSJ4 Eric) wrote:
> DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
> the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
> doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
> the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
> games in each genre? I made my own personal list:
>
> Fighting: Yie Ar Kung Fu
What about Karate Champion? I think that was the first fighting game...
(True story: I once walked into a shopping mall arcade that looked more
like a museum than an arcade. They had a vintage Karate Champion arcade
game sitting right next to Tekken Tag Tournament. No kidding.)
> Strategy: Warcraft
I'd say Dune I and II here.
> Sports: Madden NFL
RBI Baseball... IIRC, one of the first sports games to use real players
licensed from the player's association. Now that's the standard for most
sports games.
I'd also mention Cyberball and Baseball Simulator 1.000 for being two of
the first arcade-type sports games, long before NBA Jam and NFL Blitz.
> Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
> MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
What about over-the-network multiplayer? I'd put Quake into that
category...
> 3rd Person Shooter: Tomb Raider
I'd put Starfox here.
> RPG: Final Fantasy
Um, no. I'd say Dragon Quest/Warrior on consoles, and Pool of Radiance
on computers.
I'd put Legend of Zelda down in the Adventure category, since there was
nothing quite like it before it, and now it's the standard by which many
adventure games are judged.
> But I think the most important game ever in general was Super Mario
> Bros. If not for this game, we probably wouldn't be gaming now,
> because of the crash.
Agreed.
Nick Zitzmann
ICQ: 22305512
Check out my software page: http://homepage.mac.com/nickzman/
(Go there to send E-Mail to me, too!)
Mark Bradshaw
>http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2863917,00.html
>
>DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
>the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
>doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
>the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
>games in each genre? I made my own personal list:
>
>Fighting: Yie Ar Kung Fu
Street Fighter 2. Really no competition, as it made the genre viable.
>Strategy: Warcraft
Command and Conquer. I think.
>FPS: DOOM
No competition here, but I think a case could be made for Half-life to
still be the out-and-out *best* FPS made to date.
>Sports: Madden NFL
Temco Bowl.
>Platformer: Super Mario Bros.
Yeah, probably.
>Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
>MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
Er... no. Probably the Madden series.
>3rd Person Shooter: Tomb Raider
Not sure that's the category for the game, Even as far as 3d
platformers go, Mario 64 is the obvious choice here.
>Top Down Shooter: Raiden (genre was perfected with Radiant Silvergun)
Xevious. No question. Invented everything the genre takes for
granted.
>Action: Metal Gear
"Action"? A bit hard to define, but MGS really does need to be listed
somehwere in this.
>Puzzle: Tetris
Without a doubt.
>RPG: Final Fantasy
The Sega fanboy in me wants to say Phantasy Star, simply because it
popularized the genre. Even as far as the Final Fantasy franchise
games go, you'd really have to say both FF6/7 had far greater impact
than the original.
>Shooter: Area 51/HotD
Virtua Cop.
>Baet 'Em Up: Streets of Rage
Don't be silly. Final Fight.
Bruce William
> Fighting: Yie Ar Kung Fu
Street Fighter 2. Never heard of this yie ar crap.
> Strategy: Warcraft
Dune 2. BY FAR!!!!
> FPS: DOOM
Wolfenstein
> Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
> MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
Bomberman.. DUH!!
> Shooter: Area 51/HotD
Gradius
I think a lot of the older games (especially the ones that have had multiple
sequals) classify as the most important of its particular genre due to the
popularity of the game, which in a lot of cases is because it can be one of
the first & known as the best during its era, and in many cases is what all
games since then are compared to.
Bruce.
Mark Bradshaw
wrote:
>
>SSJ4 Eric <ssj4...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:9e890b48.02050...@posting.google.com...
>> http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2863917,00.html
>>
>> DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
>> the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
>> doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
>> the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
>> games in each genre? I made my own personal list:
>
>You seem to have excluded the entire first generation of videogames. Why?
Well, the obvious reason being that the original author probably was
never exposed to them.
An argument can also be made that, while some of the genres shown did
originate pre-crash, some were never really successful and/or viable
until later technology made improvements that revolutionized the
concept. Sort of like the Air Ye Kung Fu/Street Fighter 2 argument.
One game *invented* the genre, one game *validated* the genre.
>
>> Sports:
>Major League Baseball for Intellivision. First game to use a license, first
>sim approach to sports games.
To be honest, exactly how much of the MLB license did this use? Was
it able in any way to use real players stats in the way the on-screen
players acted?
>
>> Platformer:
>Pitfall. First side scroller, first platformer ever. First game to have
>secret paths.
>
Another good example of origin vs. impact. Pitfall probably did
create the genre, but an entire company and perhaps post-crash
recovery was built on Mario. Which is more important is debatable,
and a lot of the argument depends on how much Mario relied on the
Pitfall concept.
>
>> Top Down Shooter:
>Asteroids
If you're going to go back this far, you may as well put Space
Invaders into this spot. I still think this belongs to Xevious if for
no other reason than the scrolling backgrounds.
>
>> Action:
>Space Invaders
"action" is a bit hard to define. After all, one can reasonably say
that any non-strategy or non-rpg game involves a good amount of
"action".
>> RPG:
>Adventure
>
>> But I think the most important game ever in general was Super Mario
>> Bros. If not for this game, we probably wouldn't be gaming now,
>> because of the crash.
>
>Pong. SMB (or videogames) wouldn't have existed if it weren't for Pong.
Possibly. Or was Computer Space first?
Brian Deplae
Bradshaw) wrote:
>>RPG: Final Fantasy
>
>The Sega fanboy in me wants to say Phantasy Star, simply because it
>popularized the genre. Even as far as the Final Fantasy franchise
>games go, you'd really have to say both FF6/7 had far greater impact
>than the original.
Actually I'd have to say Ultima III: Exodus. Using your argument for
the shooters, it "invented everything the genre takes for granted".
>>Shooter: Area 51/HotD
>
>Virtua Cop.
Duck Hunt
>>Baet 'Em Up: Streets of Rage
>
>Don't be silly. Final Fight.
Don't be sillier, Double Dragon all the way. Once again it "invented
everything the genre takes for granted". As you can tell, I like that
argument :)
__
Brian Deplae
Being ignorant of how things are done is one thing,
knowing how things should be done but choosing not to
follow the established rules is quite another.
Brian Deplae
wrote:
>> Platformer:
>Pitfall. First side scroller, first platformer ever. First game to have
>secret paths.
Except that Pitfall didn't scroll...
Darth Miller
> Actually I'd have to say Ultima III: Exodus. Using your argument for
> the shooters, it "invented everything the genre takes for granted".
Tunnels of Doom, lol. I'm sure there was one before that, but ToD was on
the TI99, so I'd expect that predates the PC U3.
> >>Shooter: Area 51/HotD
> >Virtua Cop.
> Duck Hunt
Wild Gunman, that was 1974.
> >>Baet 'Em Up: Streets of Rage
> >Don't be silly. Final Fight.
> Don't be sillier, Double Dragon all the way.
Ditto.
> Once again it "invented
> everything the genre takes for granted". As you can tell, I like that
> argument :)
I don't. lol.
The Mak
news:3cd6f2b8...@news.xtremeol.com:
It was the first mass-produced video-game, whole "Computer Space" and
"Tennis for Two" required a hulking computer terminal back in their day.
Pong is the model-T of videogames.
SSJ4Eric
"Bruce William" <webm...@loricelf.com> wrote in message
news:uLBB8.13642$JZ6.2...@dfw-read.news.verio.net...
> You did say most important, not first, so here goes my list.
>
> > Fighting: Yie Ar Kung Fu
> Street Fighter 2. Never heard of this yie ar crap.
Yie Ar Pioneered the way for fighters.
> > Strategy: Warcraft
> Dune 2. BY FAR!!!!
Warcraft was the most popular game that really brought this genre into the
open.
> > FPS: DOOM
> Wolfenstein
I already covered this, but DOOM was wildly more popular than Wolfenstien.
> > Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
> > MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
> Bomberman.. DUH!!
But Mario Bros. (the arcade original multiplayer game) ushered in the genre.
> > Shooter: Area 51/HotD
> Gradius
Light-gun shooter. I shoulda included Virtua Cop, though.
SSJ4Eric
"Nick Zitzmann" <ple...@seemysig.thanks> wrote in message
news:please-CC69A3....@news.attbi.com...
> In article <9e890b48.02050...@posting.google.com>,
> ssj4...@hotmail.com (SSJ4 Eric) wrote:
>
> > DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
> > the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
> > doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
> > the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
> > games in each genre? I made my own personal list:
> >
> > Fighting: Yie Ar Kung Fu
>
> What about Karate Champion? I think that was the first fighting game...
>
> (True story: I once walked into a shopping mall arcade that looked more
> like a museum than an arcade. They had a vintage Karate Champion arcade
> game sitting right next to Tekken Tag Tournament. No kidding.)
> > Strategy: Warcraft
>
> I'd say Dune I and II here.
I think the Warcraft series made it popular.
> > Sports: Madden NFL
>
> RBI Baseball... IIRC, one of the first sports games to use real players
> licensed from the player's association. Now that's the standard for most
> sports games.
>
> I'd also mention Cyberball and Baseball Simulator 1.000 for being two of
> the first arcade-type sports games, long before NBA Jam and NFL Blitz.
>
> > Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
> > MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
>
> What about over-the-network multiplayer? I'd put Quake into that
> category...
Or DOOM II, Mechwarrior II also.
> > 3rd Person Shooter: Tomb Raider
>
> I'd put Starfox here.
I would lump Starfox in with Action, since it doesn't fit anywhere else.
> > RPG: Final Fantasy
>
> Um, no. I'd say Dragon Quest/Warrior on consoles, and Pool of Radiance
> on computers.
Pool of Radiance? The OS killer? That game killed most people's OS. And
there's TONS of RPGs before PoR on PC.
> I'd put Legend of Zelda down in the Adventure category, since there was
> nothing quite like it before it, and now it's the standard by which many
> adventure games are judged.
I would put Zelda in the RPG category.
SSJ4Eric
"Dubkiller" <dubkiller@?????.???> wrote in message
news:BHBB8.32634$uE2.2...@news2.calgary.shaw.ca...
> >
> > DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
> > the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
> > doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
> > the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
> > games in each genre? I made my own personal list:
>
The first gen titles were the first, but not the true, most-important, like
the true, evolutionary step for the genre.
> > Sports:
> Major League Baseball for Intellivision. First game to use a license,
first
> sim approach to sports games.
>
> > Platformer:
> Pitfall. First side scroller, first platformer ever. First game to have
> secret paths.
>
>
> > Top Down Shooter:
> Asteroids
>
> > Action:
> Space Invaders
>
> > RPG:
> Adventure
Is this considered an RPG?
> > But I think the most important game ever in general was Super Mario
> > Bros. If not for this game, we probably wouldn't be gaming now,
> > because of the crash.
>
> Pong. SMB (or videogames) wouldn't have existed if it weren't for Pong.
Yes they would. Maybe Mario Tennis or Virtua Tennis would play differentky,
but games would exist.
SSJ4Eric
"Michael Cargill" <mikeme...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ab6eun$frtm9$1...@ID-108275.news.dfncis.de...
> > Fighting: Yie Ar Kung Fu
>
> Way of the Exploding Fist was massive on the 8 bit computers. But I
reckon
> Street Fighter II was the game that really made it big.
>
> > Strategy: Warcraft
>
> Command & Conquer was talked and raved about more than Warcraft was.
>
> > FPS: DOOM
>
> Yup. It certainly wasnt the first, but it was the first one to 'go big'.
>
> > Sports: Madden NFL
>
> That EA NHL hockey game on the mega drive.
Yeah, I would put those as equal, I play the NHL Hockey game every day on
Genesis.
> > Platformer: Super Mario Bros.
>
> Yeah, this was a benchmark game at the time.
>
> > Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
> > MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
>
> Bomberman perhaps.
But Mario Party truly perfected it (along with SSB) and brought it
mainstream. I asked a friend if he wanted to play Bomberman one day, and he
said, "What?"
Terrence Briggs
> http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2863917,00.html
>
> DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
> the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
> doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
> the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
> games in each genre?
Ha! One of *these* lists :)
> I made my own personal list:
>
> Fighting: Yie Ar Kung Fu
How does it compare to SF2? That's not a rhetorical question; I've
never played YAKF.
> Strategy: Warcraft
Were the programmers influenced by Dune? Were Dune's developers
influenced by Herzog Zwei? What influenced Technosoft?
> FPS: DOOM
Wolfstein 3D gave people motion sickness in 1994. The frame rate was
sickeningly improved in Doom, though. Tough call.
> Sports: Madden NFL
Possibly, but you'd have to go sport-by-sport to really examine the
impact.
Hockey: NHL Hockey, definitely was the next step beyond Wayne Gretzky
Hockey
American Football: Madden NFL
Basketball: NBA Live 95 (which was admittedly influenced much by FIFA
International Soccer and Goal! Two)
Soccer: The above begs the question: Did Goal! Two influence FIFA
Internation Soccer with its isometric view and play mechanics?
Racing: Sorry, but it wasn't Gran Turismo. Whatever influenced Nigel
Mansell World Class Racing must get the credit here. Any ideas?
> Platformer: Super Mario Bros.
Hard to argue that.
> Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
> MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
That probably goes back to Spectre on the Mac, with its online
multiplayer mode.
> 3rd Person Shooter: Tomb Raider
Tomb Raider felt more like an evolution of Prince of Persia into 3D,
and PoP was a platformer.
3P Shooters might be too narrow a category.
> Top Down Shooter: Raiden (genre was perfected with Radiant Silvergun)
Maybe, but most would put Galaga and Xevious ahead of Raiden in the
"importance" category.
> Action: Metal Gear
Put Super Mario Bros. here. Heck, Metal Gear might've been influenced
by the ORIGINAL Castle Wolfstein. Think of Metal Gear as a top-down
action title with modified enemy attack behavior, and you'll be fine
:)
> Puzzle: Tetris
Hard to argue this.
> RPG: Final Fantasy
On the importance level, hard to argue this. Except to state that
Dragon Warrior was more important in Japan than Final Fantasy -- at
least until FF4j. any thoughts on this?
> Shooter: Area 51/HotD
Time Crisis might have these two beat, but what preceded Operation:
Wolf?
> Baet 'Em Up: Streets of Rage
Double Dragon was more influential, I'd say. SoR might be considered
a scaled-down Final Fight, which gave the melee brawler a more
accessibly control scheme and tighter play mechanics. FF's engine
also defined Street Fighter II.
> But I think the most important game ever in general was Super Mario
> Bros. If not for this game, we probably wouldn't be gaming now,
> because of the crash.
Or someone else would've come along and rose to prominence.
> -SSJ4ERIC
Terrence Briggs, who seems to have this discussion every 6 months
Peace to you...
SSJ4Eric
I forgot another couple genres:
Adventure: King's Quest and Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee (I willl recieve lots o'
flak for this, but this game really made this genre popular again)
Adult title: Custer's Revenge. Without this, we wouldn't be able to enjoy
all those hentai games from Japan.
Max Lords
>
> DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
> the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
> doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
> the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
> games in each genre? I made my own personal list:
>
> Fighting: Yie Ar Kung Fu
> Strategy: Warcraft
X-Com (pioneered turn based strategy)
> FPS: DOOM
Yep
> Sports: Madden NFL
Don't know..sports should be banned.
> Platformer: Super Mario Bros.
Yep.
> Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of MP,
then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
My ass. The first AND most important multiplayer game was PONG! Deal with
it. Gaming had big games BEFORE nintendo.
> 3rd Person Shooter: Tomb Raider
Since Tomb Raider pretty much invented the genre, I'd have to agree.
> Top Down Shooter: Raiden (genre was perfected with Radiant Silvergun)
Well....Raiden is good, but what about Galaxian, Time Pilot, Asteroids?
> Action: Metal Gear
Ummmm no. Mega Man maybe, but Metal Gear (the original) really wasn't that
important of a game.
> Puzzle: Tetris
Yes
> RPG: Final Fantasy
or possibly Dragon Warrior
> Shooter: Area 51/HotD
What??? I think not. There were MANY more important gun games than Area
51. If I had to argue that one, I'd say Lethal Enforcers
> Baet 'Em Up: Streets of Rage
Double Dragon.
>
> But I think the most important game ever in general was Super Mario
> Bros. If not for this game, we probably wouldn't be gaming now,
> because of the crash.
Probably...I can't think of a more important console game.
> -SSJ4ERIC
Mark Bradshaw
wrote:
>On Mon, 06 May 2002 19:45:30 GMT, Nfinit_...@Yahoo.com (Mark
>Bradshaw) wrote:
>
>>>RPG: Final Fantasy
>>
>>The Sega fanboy in me wants to say Phantasy Star, simply because it
>>popularized the genre. Even as far as the Final Fantasy franchise
>>games go, you'd really have to say both FF6/7 had far greater impact
>>than the original.
>
>Actually I'd have to say Ultima III: Exodus. Using your argument for
>the shooters, it "invented everything the genre takes for granted".
Well, I can't argue that very well, as I've never had the pleasure of
playing Ultima 3.
>
>>>Shooter: Area 51/HotD
>>
>>Virtua Cop.
>
>Duck Hunt
Duck Hunt was far too simple a game to be "important". Sure, it
probably sold more than any other gun shooter, but that's probably
more due to it being packed in with the NES than anything else.
After all, how many people would have honestly bought this game if it
was sold stand-alone?
And upon further reflection, I don't think VC deserves this honor,
either. probably belongs to that Konami digitized arcade shooter...
Lethal Enforcers?
>
>>>Baet 'Em Up: Streets of Rage
>>
>>Don't be silly. Final Fight.
>
>Don't be sillier, Double Dragon all the way. Once again it "invented
>everything the genre takes for granted". As you can tell, I like that
>argument :)
Yeah, you're right. While Final Fight might have been the better
*game*, Double Dragon pretty much established everything the genre was
about.
Mark Bradshaw
wrote:
>
>>
>> Pong. SMB (or videogames) wouldn't have existed if it weren't for Pong.
>Yes they would. Maybe Mario Tennis or Virtua Tennis would play differentky,
>but games would exist.
You really have no idea, do you?
Pong was the first commercially viable video game. Without Pong to
proove that the concept could make cash, the entire industry either
would not exist or would have been set back literally years.
It is *much* more important than SMB. After all, the argument could
easily be made that without SMB, another game and series would have
easily taken it's place.
Mark Bradshaw
wrote:
>
>"Bruce William" <webm...@loricelf.com> wrote in message
>news:uLBB8.13642$JZ6.2...@dfw-read.news.verio.net...
>> You did say most important, not first, so here goes my list.
>>
>> > Fighting: Yie Ar Kung Fu
>> Street Fighter 2. Never heard of this yie ar crap.
>
>Yie Ar Pioneered the way for fighters.
>
And nobody's ever heard of it. Street Fighter would have existed
without Yie Ar.
>> > Strategy: Warcraft
>> Dune 2. BY FAR!!!!
>
>Warcraft was the most popular game that really brought this genre into the
>open.
Yet Dune 2 was more important. "Popular" and "Important" are two
different concepts. Sometimes they are embodied by the same game...
Usually, they are not.
And besides, it's debatable if Warcraft was more popular than the
original C&C in the first place.
>> > Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
>> > MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
>> Bomberman.. DUH!!
>But Mario Bros. (the arcade original multiplayer game) ushered in the genre.
You can't honestly think that Mario Brothers was the first ever
multiplayer game, can you?
Zolgius
There's been WAY TOO MANY wannabes on ALL consoles since NES.
cuda man
"Terrence Briggs" <mrm...@peopleweb.com> wrote in message
news:b2a55274.02050...@posting.google.com...
> ssj4...@hotmail.com (SSJ4 Eric) wrote in message
news:<9e890b48.02050...@posting.google.com>...
> > http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2863917,00.html
> >
>
>
> Mansell World Class Racing must get the credit here. Any ideas?
>
Thats a good question Terrence. I believe it would be between Geoff
Crammond's Grand Prix series and the early Papyrus racing sims (Indy 500,
IndyCar Racing, Nascar Racing) for most important racing game. Those games
had realistic action and put you as close to the driver's seat as you could
get without leaving your computer. And actual drivers, cars, tracks, and
sponsors didn't hurt either.
Actually, Gran Turismo proved that a realistic racing game could be
successful on a console. Many simulation fans who once turned their noses
up at consoles bought Playstations just to play Gran Turismo.
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Darth Miller
> >Yie Ar Pioneered the way for fighters.
> And nobody's ever heard of it. Street Fighter would have existed
> without Yie Ar.
That's quite an assumption...
> Yet Dune 2 was more important. "Popular" and "Important" are two
> different concepts.
...and quite a 180.
Doug Jacobs
> http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2863917,00.html
> DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
> the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
> doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
> the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
> games in each genre? I made my own personal list:
Depends on how you define "important", I guess... Wolfenstien3D wasn't
even the first FPS, for instance. While Doom wasn't either, it's popularity
did do a lot for gaming. Likewise, Yie Ar Kung Fu wasn't the first
fighter, and neither was Street Fighter 2, but the popularity of the latter
did quite a bit for the genre...
> Fighting: Yie Ar Kung Fu
Street Fighter 2.
> Strategy: Warcraft
For Real-Time-Strategy, maybe. For turn-based strategy, I have to go
with Civilization.
SSJ4Eric
> I believe it would be between Geoff
> Crammond's Grand Prix series and the early Papyrus racing sims (Indy 500
piracy protection, although it could have easily been bypassed by any racing
fanatic.
SSJ4Eric
> multiplayer game, can you?
No, but it was one of the most important MP games ever, that and Bomberman.
SSJ4Eric
> On Mon, 6 May 2002 20:42:22 -0400, "SSJ4Eric" <ssj4...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >>
> >> Pong. SMB (or videogames) wouldn't have existed if it weren't for Pong.
> >Yes they would. Maybe Mario Tennis or Virtua Tennis would play
differentky,
> >but games would exist.
>
>
> You really have no idea, do you?
Of course I do.
> Pong was the first commercially viable video game. Without Pong to
> proove that the concept could make cash, the entire industry either
> would not exist or would have been set back literally years.
But there would STILL be others. Pong was Nolan Bushnell's ripoff of Ralph
Baer's game anyway. While it was a very important game, SMB was THE most
important console game ever since it made the entire industry mainstream.
Ryan Cousineau
"SSJ4Eric" <ssj4...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > RPG:
> > Adventure
>
> Is this considered an RPG?
Yeah, it's an action RPG. You know, like the Zelda series :).
Seriously, the "gather tools and weapons, see the world, fight dragons"
thing does make calling Adventure an RPG a reasonable classification.
Nobody would have called it that when it came out, but it's the modern
label that fits best.
Just like Video Olympics is a sports sim.
--
Ryan Cousineau, rcou...@sfu.cat (trim trailing t), www.sfu.ca/~rcousine
"NOTE: THE COSMIC CUBE CAN DO ANYTHING"
(http://www.seanbaby.com/hostess/cappy5.htm)
Sean Connery
SSJ4Eric <ssj4...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>But there would STILL be others. Pong was Nolan Bushnell's ripoff of Ralph
>Baer's game anyway. While it was a very important game, SMB was THE most
>important console game ever since it made the entire industry mainstream.
What a silly statement. It's like saying that a Ford Pinto is more
imortant than a Model T WRT to "driving" because the Pinto happened to
exsit in a time with interstate highways while the T did not.
"Old people" are going to laugh at this and point to the classics.
Nintendo newbie kids are going to yell SMB and call the classics primitive
trash.
The entire industry went "mainstream" way back when Warner Communications
purchased Atari. FYI.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
$ lynx http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html
$ rm -fr CBDTPA SSSCA 'Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC)'
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sean Connery
Mark Bradshaw <Nfinit_...@Yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> > Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
>>> > MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
>>> Bomberman.. DUH!!
>>But Mario Bros. (the arcade original multiplayer game) ushered in the genre.
>
>You can't honestly think that Mario Brothers was the first ever
>multiplayer game, can you?
Sure he can. Youthful ignorance. I was probably playing 4-player
Warlords on my Atari 2600 before he was even born.
Sal Manfredonia
news:ab7e1l$dggr0$1...@ID-125882.news.dfncis.de...
You might not be a fan of Pong, but it was one of the most important
multiplayer games ever. In fact, that was the only way you could play it in
the arcades--there was no single player mode. A lot of the early arcade
games were multiplayer only. It was a few years later when games finally had
enough processing power to offer challenging computer-controlled "enemies"
that the games began shifting over to mainly single-player tests of skill.
Mario Bros. did have some impact, as did Joust (which I believe came out a
little before Mario Bros.), because they were two-player games that were
released at a time when most games were offering a single-player "you vs.
the CPU" experience. They also offered a bit more freedom from earlier
two-player games in that they could be played either cooperatively or
competitively. They were both great games, but I don't think either was the
definitive multiplayer game. If any video game from the early 1980's defined
the multiplayer experience, it would have to be Warlords.
The other game that you've probably forgotten about is Gauntlet. It was not
the first four-player game (neither was Warlords), but it did offer the
concept of allowing players to insert a coin and join a game already in
progress. This was certainly one of the pivotal points gaming, making a
lasting impression future multiplayer arcade video games.
--
Sal Manfredonia (hyst...@gti.net)
Have you played Atari today?
Darth Miller
> >But there would STILL be others. Pong was Nolan Bushnell's ripoff of
Ralph
> >Baer's game anyway. While it was a very important game, SMB was THE most
> >important console game ever since it made the entire industry mainstream.
> What a silly statement. It's like saying that a Ford Pinto is more
> imortant than a Model T WRT to "driving" because the Pinto happened to
> exsit in a time with interstate highways while the T did not.
Come on... SMB was no Pinto. It was a Cadilac of it's time!
> "Old people" are going to laugh at this and point to the classics.
I'd have to say that I think that maybe the PSX was the console that pushed
everything
"mainstream".
> Nintendo newbie kids are going to yell SMB and call the classics primitive
> trash.
Night Driver? Are you kidding me! That game rox0rd!
> The entire industry went "mainstream" way back when Warner Communications
> purchased Atari. FYI.
The industry went "big time" but "mainstream"? I think what really happened
is that the stigma of playing video games as adults went away as the kids
who played video games matured, and therefore the PSX goes mainstream.
I think it's a generation thing. Sure, there was Pong and old people played
that, but I'm talking about the kids that played it.
Sal Manfredonia
news:9e890b48.02050...@posting.google.com...
> http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2863917,00.html
>
> DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
> the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
> doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
> the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
> games in each genre? I made my own personal list:
Cool. I'll add my own picks.
> Fighting: Yie Ar Kung Fu
Street Fighter II.
> Strategy: Warcraft
Are you separating turn-based strategy games and realtime strategy games? I
haven't really played enough turn-based strategy games to form a worthwhile
opinion, but for realtime strategy games, I would have to go with Command
and Conquer.
> FPS: DOOM
Agreed.
> Sports: Madden NFL
John Madden Football on the Sega Genesis. What's the distinction, you ask?
Well, technically, the Madden series didn't have the NFL license until
Madden NFL '94 was released.
> Platformer: Super Mario Bros.
Agreed.
> Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
> MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
I think these should be two separate genres. Multiplayer game would be
Gauntlet. Party game might go to Warlords, or perhaps Bomberman.
> 3rd Person Shooter: Tomb Raider
Space Invaders. Yes, it's a third-person shooter.
> Top Down Shooter: Raiden (genre was perfected with Radiant Silvergun)
I said Space Invaders, didn't I? If you're going with scrolling shooters,
then put me down for R-Type.
> Action: Metal Gear
"Action" is too vague. Do you mean games like Robotron: 2084, Mega Man,
Ninja Gaiden, Crash Bandicoot, or Grand Theft Auto? They could all be called
"action" games. I've seen Pac-Man defined as an "action" game before. That
sounds good; I'll go with Pac-Man.
BTW, if you meant action-adventure games like Metal Gear, then I would go
with Metal Gear Solid over the original Metal Gear, for precisely the same
reason I said Street Fighter II and not the original Street Fighter: It had
a much bigger impact on the genre. But even that wouldn't get my vote. That
one would go to Castlevania.
> Puzzle: Tetris
Agreed.
> RPG: Final Fantasy
I don't play many RPG's, either. Perhaps something in the Ultima series.
> Shooter: Area 51/HotD
I take it this is for light-gun shooting games. I'll go with Crossbow.
> Baet 'Em Up: Streets of Rage
Double Dragon.
I'm surprised you missed a few other noteworthy genres:
Racing: Pole Position.
Flight simulation: Flight Simulator II.
Flight combat: Star Wars (the Atari vector arcade game from 1983).
Full-motion video: Dragon's Lair.
Text adventure: Zork trilogy.
Graphic adventure: Maniac Mansion.
> But I think the most important game ever in general was Super Mario
> Bros. If not for this game, we probably wouldn't be gaming now,
> because of the crash.
Who stopped gaming "because of the crash"? Just because there weren't any
major video game systems being actively marketed for a period of a year,
doesn't mean the video gaming world came to a screeching halt. Home
computers such as the Commodore 64/128 were becoming quite inexpensive, and
they could play arcade-style video games better than any video game system
on the market at the time. Video games didn't disappear altogether, the
market just shifted over to computers for a while.
byror
i know everyone's thinking so i'm just gonna say it: jersey devil.
Nick Zitzmann
"SSJ4Eric" <ssj4...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Nick Zitzmann" <ple...@seemysig.thanks> wrote in message
> news:please-CC69A3....@news.attbi.com...
> > I'd put Starfox here.
>
> I would lump Starfox in with Action, since it doesn't fit anywhere else.
Starfox was a third person shooter, wasn't it? OK, there was a first
person mode, but it only popped up in a few parts of the game.
> > I'd put Legend of Zelda down in the Adventure category, since there was
> > nothing quite like it before it, and now it's the standard by which many
> > adventure games are judged.
>
> I would put Zelda in the RPG category.
Except that Zelda is not an RPG...
Nick Zitzmann
Nfinit_...@Yahoo.com (Mark Bradshaw) wrote:
> On Mon, 6 May 2002 20:34:05 -0400, "SSJ4Eric" <ssj4...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >Yie Ar Pioneered the way for fighters.
>
> And nobody's ever heard of it. Street Fighter would have existed
> without Yie Ar.
Weren't both games produced by the same person, Yoshiki Okamoto?
Or was Yie Ar Kung Fu done by someone else? I can't remember now...
Michael Cargill
> mainstream. I asked a friend if he wanted to play Bomberman one day, and
he
> said, "What?"
Mario Party was only released during the decline of the N64, whereas
Bomberman was released on just about every feasible format. Bomberman is
recognised and remembered far more than Mario Party is.
Eric Kilian
> http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2863917,00.html
>
> DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
> the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
> doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
> the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
> games in each genre? I made my own personal list:
>
> Fighting: Yie Ar Kung Fu
Agreed. This game kicks.
> Strategy: Warcraft
I'd have to go with Dune 2 for the PC here. A true pioneer in the
Strategy category.
> FPS: DOOM
Quite possibly true, though I might go with Wolfenstein. Also, Faceball
2000 for the Game Boy had multiplayer FPS action going on years before
Doom.
> Sports: Madden NFL
Uh...sports games have been around since the 1970s. Perhaps Pro Football
on the TI-99 back in the early 80s (anyone remember this game?). I'd go
with one of the pre-crash sports games or maybe Tecmo Bowl for the NES.
> Platformer: Super Mario Bros.
Certainly one of the largest platformers of its time (32 levels...), but
probably not the most important platformer ever. While I cannot deny the
influence Super Mario Bros. had I'd have to go with Montezuma's Revenge,
baby. In my world this game pioneered the Platformer category. For those
of you who want to play this gem again I'd suggest picking up a
Colecovision emulator and this game (generally I'm against emulation and
piracy, but this game is so old-school that this is the only viable method
of getting it). Some people will probably say Pitfall, and I'd note that
though the original Pitfall was not actually a side-scroller (didn't
scroll), the sequel to it WAS actually a scrolling game.
> Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
> MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
Disagreed. The concept of multiplayer games has been around since the
beginning of video games. Pong is probably the most important multiplayer
game ever. Has anyone here ever heard of Blasto (for the TI-99)? Now
THAT was a great multiplayer game. What distinguishes Mario Bros. from
all of the multiplayer games that came before it? It's just a two-player
game, like many others. Also, there were 4-player games way before Mario
Party came out (try Gauntlet for one).
> 3rd Person Shooter: Tomb Raider
> Top Down Shooter: Raiden (genre was perfected with Radiant Silvergun)
Uh...this category would have to go to Space Invaders. A true shooter
pioneer.
> Action: Metal Gear
Action? Well, if you consider Pac-Man an action game, then that's
probably the most important. Metal Gear was a great action military RPG,
but I don't think it was anywhere near the most important game in the
genre.
> Puzzle: Tetris
I'm with you on this one.
> RPG: Final Fantasy
I think the most influential traditional RPG would be Dragon Warrior, even
though in retrospect I think it's a terrible game. However it really
brought RPGs to the mainstream.
> Shooter: Area 51/HotD
Do you mean shooters that use a light gun? If not, probably one of those
pre-crash space shooters. If so, probably Operation Wolf for the NES.
> Baet 'Em Up: Streets of Rage
Try Renegade for the NES, which pioneered many things that appeared in
Double Dragon (a game that many people keep mentioning as pioneering the
genre).
> But I think the most important game ever in general was Super Mario
> Bros. If not for this game, we probably wouldn't be gaming now,
> because of the crash.
>
> -SSJ4ERIC
The most important game ever was likely Pong (though certainly not the
best).
Note that though I didn't really become a huge fan of video games until I
got my NES, and I still support Nintendo to this day, most of my picks are
from before the NES era. The NES-era games were great, they just weren't
the most important games in any of their respective genres.
SBD
BooYah!
> > FPS: DOOM
>
> Quite possibly true, though I might go with Wolfenstein. Also, Faceball
> 2000 for the Game Boy had multiplayer FPS action going on years before
> Doom.
>
Doom made shareware games and FPS popular - before it wolf 3D and a few
others were about but they never really took off like Doom did...
> > Platformer: Super Mario Bros.
>
> Certainly one of the largest platformers of its time (32 levels...), but
> probably not the most important platformer ever. While I cannot deny the
> influence Super Mario Bros. had I'd have to go with Montezuma's Revenge,
> baby. In my world this game pioneered the Platformer category. For those
> of you who want to play this gem again I'd suggest picking up a
> Colecovision emulator and this game (generally I'm against emulation and
> piracy, but this game is so old-school that this is the only viable method
> of getting it). Some people will probably say Pitfall, and I'd note that
> though the original Pitfall was not actually a side-scroller (didn't
> scroll), the sequel to it WAS actually a scrolling game.
uh, mario bros brought so many new concepts into video games - what did
montezuma's revenge have over it other than it was a scrolling
platformer that pre dates it?
> > Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
> > MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
>
> Disagreed. The concept of multiplayer games has been around since the
> beginning of video games. Pong is probably the most important multiplayer
> game ever. Has anyone here ever heard of Blasto (for the TI-99)? Now
> THAT was a great multiplayer game. What distinguishes Mario Bros. from
> all of the multiplayer games that came before it? It's just a two-player
> game, like many others. Also, there were 4-player games way before Mario
> Party came out (try Gauntlet for one).
agreed - gauntlet was one of the best multiplayers that first came
out...
> > RPG: Final Fantasy
>
> I think the most influential traditional RPG would be Dragon Warrior, even
> though in retrospect I think it's a terrible game. However it really
> brought RPGs to the mainstream.
>
sorry, i would have to go with zelda 1 here - although its not a RPG in
its truest sense, zelda 1 helped final fantasy and its ilk become
successful...
> > Shooter: Area 51/HotD
>
> Do you mean shooters that use a light gun? If not, probably one of those
> pre-crash space shooters. If so, probably Operation Wolf for the NES.
asteroids! or missile command!
Ethan Hammond
Street Fighter 2
> Strategy: Warcraft
Dune II paved the way for this kind of game.
> FPS: DOOM
> Sports: Madden NFL
Tecmo Superbowl
> Platformer: Super Mario Bros.
Yep and Mario peaked with SMB3.
> Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
> MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
Mario Bros. was pretty good.
> 3rd Person Shooter: Tomb Raider
Ugh. Thank goodness the series is meaningless now.
> Top Down Shooter: Raiden (genre was perfected with Radiant Silvergun)
Galaga or R-Type
> Action: Metal Gear
Ninja Gaiden I/II, first action game to use in game cinemas.
> Puzzle: Tetris
Were they even puzzle games before Tetris? Heh.
> RPG: Final Fantasy
Or Dragon Quest depending on where you live.
> Shooter: Area 51/HotD
Operation Wolf
> Beat 'Em Up: Streets of Rage
Double Dragon
> But I think the most important game ever in general was Super Mario
> Bros. If not for this game, we probably wouldn't be gaming now,
> because of the crash.
Yep SMB paved the way.
--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
Matt
>
> http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2863917,00.html
>
> DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
> the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
> doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
> the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
> games in each genre? I made my own personal list:
>
> Strategy: Warcraft
Elite (some people are still playing it today)
> FPS: DOOM
Can't really argue. It took PC gaming to the 'next level'
> Sports: Madden NFL
Pong (it was a tennis game, of sorts)
> Platformer: Super Mario Bros.
Sounds good
> Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
> MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
Any af the Bomberman games
> 3rd Person Shooter: Tomb Raider
Pac-man (It, doesn't fit anywhere else and needs a mention)
> Top Down Shooter: Raiden (genre was perfected with Radiant Silvergun)
Space Invaders
> Action: Metal Gear
A unique game that gets better with every installment.
> Puzzle: Tetris
With a special mention to Lemmings
> RPG: Final Fantasy
Moved the gere into the mainstream
> Shooter: Area 51/HotD
Operation wolf or Duck Hunt
> Baet 'Em Up: Streets of Rage
Final fight or Double Dragon
> But I think the most important game ever in general was Super Mario
> Bros. If not for this game, we probably wouldn't be gaming now,
> because of the crash.
Most important game ever, Pong or Space invaders.
>
> -SSJ4ERIC
Lasse Saikkonen
>
> http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2863917,00.html
>
> DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
> the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
> doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
> the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
> games in each genre? I made my own personal list:
>
> Fighting: Yie Ar Kung Fu
I have to say The Way of The Exploding Fist or Karateka, I loved them
both and I think they came a bit before YAKF.
> Strategy: Warcraft
Archon all the way. Chess on acid. No, wait... Seven Cities of Gold. Ah,
the memories...
> FPS: DOOM
Not much competition here. Wolfenstein 3D was not really that big,
worldwide.
> Sports: Madden NFL
Track And Field in generic sports, Pole Position in racing, Kick Off in
soccer.
> Platformer: Super Mario Bros.
Manic Miner, Pitfall and Lode Runner were the pioneers in this.
> Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
> MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
MULE reigns supreme.
> 3rd Person Shooter: Tomb Raider
Castle Wolfenstein, no contest here. I still have the original floppy
and manual for Apple ][.
> Top Down Shooter: Raiden (genre was perfected with Radiant Silvergun)
Xevious
> Action: Metal Gear
Do you mean the original Metal Gear on MSX? I haven't played that one.
Breakout on the arcades. On the computer either Lode Runner or Bolo (a
tank game for Apple ][)
> Puzzle: Tetris
I loved Paradroid on C-64
> RPG: Final Fantasy
This is a race between Ultima II and Wizardry. Loved them both, but I
especially loved the SSI Gold Box AD&D series.
> Shooter: Area 51/HotD
Do you mean a light gun shooter? If not, then I pick ATARI's Outlaw.
> Baet 'Em Up: Streets of Rage
Ninja on Sinclair Spectrum.
> But I think the most important game ever in general was Super Mario
> Bros. If not for this game, we probably wouldn't be gaming now,
> because of the crash.
>
> -SSJ4ERIC
I have to with some others here and say Pong.
That's my 0.02Euros.
Lazarus
getting kevin j
> ssj4...@hotmail.com (SSJ4 Eric) wrote in message news:<9e890b48.02050...@posting.google.com>...
>
> > Strategy: Warcraft
>
> Were the programmers influenced by Dune? Were Dune's developers
> influenced by Herzog Zwei? What influenced Technosoft?
You'd think I'd be something simple (or complex depending on your
view) like Chess.
> > FPS: DOOM
>
> Wolfstein 3D gave people motion sickness in 1994. The frame rate was
> sickeningly improved in Doom, though. Tough call.
Wolfenstein didn't have *that* horrible of a frame rate if you were
running on a 486 DX or a 386/40 with FPU.
I'd consider GoldenEye just as important since it actually revitalized the
genre. It required a bit more than shoot everything that moves and find
the red key. DOOM gets away with this since it was the grand-daddy to the
genre.
> > Sports: Madden NFL
>
> Possibly, but you'd have to go sport-by-sport to really examine the
> impact.
>
> American Football: Madden NFL
No way in hell. Tecmo Super Bowl owns Madden.
> > Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
> > MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
>
> That probably goes back to Spectre on the Mac, with its online
> multiplayer mode.
How about the old school game of Bolo? That was 16 machine (or
bot) multiplayer back in 1989.
> > 3rd Person Shooter: Tomb Raider
>
> Tomb Raider felt more like an evolution of Prince of Persia into 3D,
> and PoP was a platformer.
>
> 3P Shooters might be too narrow a category.
Its just a rather new genre in the market.
> > Top Down Shooter: Raiden (genre was perfected with Radiant Silvergun)
>
> Maybe, but most would put Galaga and Xevious ahead of Raiden in the
> "importance" category.
I'd agree about placing Galaga ahead of Raiden in importance, but Raiden
is still a bad ass game that I play on occasion at an arcade here.
> > Action: Metal Gear
>
> Put Super Mario Bros. here. Heck, Metal Gear might've been influenced
> by the ORIGINAL Castle Wolfstein. Think of Metal Gear as a top-down
> action title with modified enemy attack behavior, and you'll be fine
> :)
>
> > Puzzle: Tetris
>
> Hard to argue this.
I can think of earlier puzzle games, but I wouldn't rate them higher in
significance than Tetris.
> > RPG: Final Fantasy
>
> On the importance level, hard to argue this. Except to state that
> Dragon Warrior was more important in Japan than Final Fantasy -- at
> least until FF4j. any thoughts on this?
I'd say DW1 was more import as it was the home console RPG of its time.
It was over shadowed by FF1 a year later, but the RPG craze begun with DW.
> > Shooter: Area 51/HotD
>
> Time Crisis might have these two beat, but what preceded Operation:
> Wolf?
>
> > Baet 'Em Up: Streets of Rage
>
> Double Dragon was more influential, I'd say. SoR might be considered
> a scaled-down Final Fight, which gave the melee brawler a more
> accessibly control scheme and tighter play mechanics. FF's engine
> also defined Street Fighter II.
Double Dragon all the way.
> > But I think the most important game ever in general was Super Mario
> > Bros. If not for this game, we probably wouldn't be gaming now,
> > because of the crash.
>
> Or someone else would've come along and rose to prominence.
bat...@chip.soliddesign.net
> http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2863917,00.html
>
> DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
> the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
> doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
> the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
> games in each genre? I made my own personal list:
Guess I'm too old, because I didn't recognize most of those.
How about zork, the only PC game I've purchased? (though I was adicted to nethack)
Since then, I've bought two games and two consoles...
1. GT2 and PS1
2. GT3 and a PS2
Joe
Mark Bradshaw
wrote:
>"Mark Bradshaw" <Nfinit_...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
>> >Yie Ar Pioneered the way for fighters.
>
>> And nobody's ever heard of it. Street Fighter would have existed
>> without Yie Ar.
>
>That's quite an assumption...
Final Fight had far more influence over the SF2 than anything else.
Of course, I suppose it could then be argued that in that case Yie Ar
had influenced the beat 'em up category as well.
But I'm still holding to my guns. SF2 was far, far more important,
because it revolutionized the genre, paved the way for about thirty
million imitators (SNK, anyone?) And pretty much brought the arcade
scene back from the doldrums.. and then promptly killed the arcade
scene later on, when companies refused to produce anything OTHER than
2d fighters.
>
>> Yet Dune 2 was more important. "Popular" and "Important" are two
>> different concepts.
>
>...and quite a 180.
You use soundbites much? Try reading the rest of the paragraph I put
up there.
Mark Bradshaw
wrote:
>Mark Bradshaw <Nfinit_...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:3cd6f2b8...@news.xtremeol.com...
>> >> Top Down Shooter:
>> >Asteroids
>>
>> If you're going to go back this far, you may as well put Space
>> Invaders into this spot. I still think this belongs to Xevious if for
>> no other reason than the scrolling backgrounds.
>
>I woulda, but I thought someone would take issue with the fact that Space
>Invaders isn't top down. So I snuck it into action.
Odd.. I always imagined the ships being seen from a top-down
perspective.
Darth Miller
> >> >Yie Ar Pioneered the way for fighters.
> >> And nobody's ever heard of it. Street Fighter would have existed
> >> without Yie Ar.
> >That's quite an assumption...
> Final Fight had far more influence over the SF2 than anything else.
That's strange, seeing as there was such game called Street Fighter which
was released before Final Fight. Maybe before your time?
> But I'm still holding to my guns. SF2 was far, far more important,
I can dig it.
> >> Yet Dune 2 was more important. "Popular" and "Important" are two
> >> different concepts.
> >...and quite a 180.
> You use soundbites much? Try reading the rest of the paragraph I put
> up there.
Popular vs Important.
BTW, SF2 has so much more in common with Yie Ar Kung Fu than Final Fight.
Mark Bradshaw
wrote:
>"Mark Bradshaw" <Nfinit_...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
>> >> >Yie Ar Pioneered the way for fighters.
>
>> >> And nobody's ever heard of it. Street Fighter would have existed
>> >> without Yie Ar.
>
>> >That's quite an assumption...
>
>> Final Fight had far more influence over the SF2 than anything else.
>
>That's strange, seeing as there was such game called Street Fighter which
>was released before Final Fight. Maybe before your time?
However, Final Fight came well before SF2. I think Final Fight had
more influence over what SF2 came to be than the original Street
Fighter.
Pandagas
>From: ssj4...@hotmail.com (SSJ4 Eric)
>Date: 06/05/02 17:21 GMT Daylight Time
>Message-id: <9e890b48.02050...@posting.google.com>
>
>http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2863917,00.html
Hmm.. I think that Space Invaders
was a pretty important game...
Pac-man, Elite, Wipeout (made
gaming cool, rather than for spotty
kids and anoraks), Mario 64 (because
I've never played a better conceived
3D platformer), Sonic the Hedgehog
(because it was fast and exciting).
Street Fighter (because when it was out,
everybody talked about it).
Highly subjective, but there you go...
Darth Miller
> >> >That's quite an assumption...
> >> Final Fight had far more influence over the SF2 than anything else.
> >That's strange, seeing as there was such game called Street Fighter which
> >was released before Final Fight. Maybe before your time?
> However, Final Fight came well before SF2. I think Final Fight had
> more influence over what SF2 came to be than the original Street
> Fighter.
And you're entitled to your opinion no matter what I think of it.
Jeff Fong
>
> Archon all the way. Chess on acid. No, wait... Seven Cities of Gold. Ah,
> the memories...
>
Archon was one badass game at the time.
Jeff Fong
> > Puzzle: Tetris
>
> Were they even puzzle games before Tetris? Heh.
>
>
How about lode runner, or that expanding snake game (can't remember the
name)
which is appearing on everyone's cellphone nowadays. Or even minesweeper.
Seem to recall playing those on the Apple 2e. Heck, I still play
minesweeper right
now and this game is OLD.
Max Lords
memories of playing Nibbles in the drafting labs all afternoon! That game
came out with QBasic when it came out for DOS back in the day, along with
Gorilla. Very old and great game!
"Jeff Fong" <jeff...@nospam.com> wrote in message news:3cd896cc@wansvr5...
Scott X
>
> DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
> the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
> doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
> the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
> games in each genre? I made my own personal list:
>
As far as making the genre popular goes I'd have to say Street Fighter
2. As far as making the most advancements towards real fighting with
opponents of varius martial arts backgrounds, I'd have to say Shenmue II,
and then Virtua Fighter 4. The most unique, or non side scrolling, and
complete fighting game would have to be Virtual On: Oratorio Tangram.
http://home1.gte.net/res0zjb2/VOOTinst.htm
> Strategy: Warcraft
I'd have to agree, either this or Red Alert, as far as making the genre
popular. Age of Empires, Nobunaga's Ambition and a few others might have
done the genre both well, and made it popular before though.
> FPS: DOOM
Definitely, at least until somebody makes a polygonal FPS that has as many
enemies on screen at once, that don't take a box full of nails to kill.
> Sports: Madden NFL
Bleh, whatever.
> Platformer: Super Mario Bros.
As far as making the genre popular, definitely. I'd have to give the
most advanced platformer to Shinobi III though. Here's hoping that they can
translate that game's awesome mechanics over to 3D.
> Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
> MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
Agreed.
> 3rd Person Shooter: Tomb Raider
Unfortunately.
> Top Down Shooter: Raiden (genre was perfected with Radiant Silvergun)
Probably.
> Action: Metal Gear
Depends on what you call action. Sonic the Hedgehog was considered an
Action game, as was Shinobi III. About the only thing that MGS made popular
were attempts at making a game look like a movie, and attempts at adding
stealth to the gameplay. Meanwhile, it was Shinobi, Golden Axe, Ghouls N
Ghosts, Strider, and others that got the developer community out of the toy
box, and into more realistic action themed games.
> Puzzle: Tetris
Definitely.
> RPG: Final Fantasy
Yeah......
> Shooter: Area 51/HotD
I've always considered these lower end. I'd say Time Crisis and Virtual
Cop. Or even Operation Wolf before I'd pick the above.
> Baet 'Em Up: Streets of Rage
Streets of Rage 2 to be more specific. The first one is still good, but the
second has a greater degree of polish.
>
> But I think the most important game ever in general was Super Mario
> Bros. If not for this game, we probably wouldn't be gaming now,
> because of the crash.
No way! After Burner in the arcade. If not for it, Space Harrier,
Galaxy Force 2, Golden Axe, Double Dragon and Outrun, I would never have
bought home consoles in the first place. You're probably right though,
while all of my friends were playing Super Mario, I was going to the arcades
until I could afford the current console with the arcade games I wanted.
> -SSJ4ERIC
terrell gibbs
the most important games. Fundamentally, it was an obvious and rather
trivial idea. The major achievement of its developers was figuring out
how to implement a game design that numerous people had doubtless
conceived of on the rather limited hardare of the time.
For truly important games, I tend to think of games that invented a
novel genre: games like Donkey Kong (platform gaming), Pac Man (maze
chase/collection), Tetris, and Street Fighter II (some would point to
earlier fighting games, but SFII was the first with the crucial
elements in place).
In article <9e890b48.02050...@posting.google.com>, SSJ4 Eric
<ssj4...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2863917,00.html
>
> DOOM III will be revealed at E3, and in this article, it is said that
> the original Doom was the most important PC and FPS game ever, which I
> doubt can be argued, unless you argue Wolfenstein 3D. But what was
> the most important (which usually also means best, but not always)
> games in each genre? I made my own personal list:
>
> Fighting: Yie Ar Kung Fu
> Strategy: Warcraft
> FPS: DOOM
> Sports: Madden NFL
> Platformer: Super Mario Bros.
> Multiplayer/Party Game: Mario Bros. really brought out the concept of
> MP, then Mario Party perfected the concept of Multiplayer
> 3rd Person Shooter: Tomb Raider
> Top Down Shooter: Raiden (genre was perfected with Radiant Silvergun)
> Action: Metal Gear
> Puzzle: Tetris
> RPG: Final Fantasy
> Shooter: Area 51/HotD
> Baet 'Em Up: Streets of Rage
>
> But I think the most important game ever in general was Super Mario
> Bros. If not for this game, we probably wouldn't be gaming now,
> because of the crash.
>
> -SSJ4ERIC
terrell gibbs
<Nfinit_...@Yahoo.com> wrote:
> Duck Hunt was far too simple a game to be "important". Sure, it
> probably sold more than any other gun shooter, but that's probably
> more due to it being packed in with the NES than anything else.
What was the first light gun game, home or arcade?
Darth Miller
> What was the first light gun game, home or arcade?
Wasn't it Wild Gunman, that was 1974. Or Qak!, 1974 again. Both arcade
games. Were there any home light gun games then? I remember having a light
gun with an old pong type unit. Like a Coleco Telestar (?) but was white
and have actual paddles, etc. No cart slot on either, just built in games.
Not sure what year that was, but considering the Telestar came out like
after 1975, I think, and this one was more advanced, I'd almost think Wild
Gunman was first.
terrell gibbs
<the...@enwhysee.areare.cahm> wrote:
> Nfinit_...@Yahoo.com (Mark Bradshaw) wrote in
> news:3cd6f2b8...@news.xtremeol.com:
>
> > On Mon, 06 May 2002 20:28:17 GMT, "Dubkiller" <dubkiller@?????.???>
> > wrote:
>
> >>Pong. SMB (or videogames) wouldn't have existed if it weren't for
> >>Pong.
> >
> >
> > Possibly. Or was Computer Space first?
>
> It was the first mass-produced video-game, whole "Computer Space" and
> "Tennis for Two" required a hulking computer terminal back in their day.
> Pong is the model-T of videogames.
If memory serves, Pong was not even computer-based. I think that Space
War is probably the true ancestor of modern videogames, even though its
commercial incarnation came much later.
terrell gibbs
<Nfinit_...@Yahoo.com> wrote:
> You really have no idea, do you?
>
> Pong was the first commercially viable video game. Without Pong to
> proove that the concept could make cash, the entire industry either
> would not exist or would have been set back literally years.
I'm not convinced of this. People in computer labs already going crazy
over Space War before Pong was released. It was simply a question of
who would come up with a commercial videogame implementation first.
>
> It is *much* more important than SMB. After all, the argument could
> easily be made that without SMB, another game and series would have
> easily taken it's place.
And Computer Space preceded Pong. While not a huge commercial success,
its developer, Nolan Bushnell went on to found Atari. It seems likely
that he would have done so even if Pong never existed.
terrell gibbs
of course, SF1). But none of them were hits even approaching SFII. SFII
had a number of critical features:
Many user-playable characters, each with (many) very different moves,
appearance, and back story
"Super" moves, different for each character, and hidden just well
enough so that players hit upon them by accident (this feature was
actually present in SF1, but the other critical element was not).
It was the combination of these two features, as well as the high
overall graphic quality of the game, that made it such a hit.
terrell gibbs
<dubkiller@?????.???> wrote:
> With that logic, I could say that if SMB wasn't invented then another game
> would have taken us out of the crash.
I think the crash was self-limiting. It was just the counter reaction
to the videogame fad. Most fads are followed by a period where what was
"In" becomes very much "Out". Once that faded, people were once again
receptive to good games. SMB was a fine game, but it doesn't deserve
credit for ending the crash.
terrell gibbs
<hyst...@gti.net> wrote:
> I said Space Invaders, didn't I? If you're going with scrolling shooters,
> then put me down for R-Type.
I think R-Type is probably the best of the scrolling shooters, but I'd
be more inclined to point to Scramble and Defender as being the ones
that defined the genre.
terrell gibbs
> Who stopped gaming "because of the crash"? Just because there weren't any
> major video game systems being actively marketed for a period of a year,
> doesn't mean the video gaming world came to a screeching halt. Home
> computers such as the Commodore 64/128 were becoming quite inexpensive, and
> they could play arcade-style video games better than any video game system
> on the market at the time. Video games didn't disappear altogether, the
> market just shifted over to computers for a while.
Even computer games suffered during the crash, but they recovered
faster, because the cost of producing a new computer game was less.
terrell gibbs
wrote:
> Try Renegade for the NES, which pioneered many things that appeared in
> Double Dragon (a game that many people keep mentioning as pioneering the
> genre).
This was the one I've been trying to think of, except I'm thinking of
the arcade version. I think this is the game that really defined the
beat-em-up. Final Fight was a refinement of the formula, and Streets of
Rage was basically a FF clone.
Sal Manfredonia
Yes, you might be right. Those were both pretty influential. Funny thing is,
I thought about Defender about a minute after I posted that message, too.
--
Sal Manfredonia (hyst...@gti.net)
Have you played Atari today?
Terrence Briggs
One more thing about the Final Fight connection: The hit detection
for SFII just SCREAMS Final Fight. Sure, opponents receiving a hit
would be knocked backwards (so you couldn't wail on them they way you
would in FF), but knowing the contact points of FF's characters
actually does carry over into a SF2 experience.
Perhaps the developers at Capcom figured that FF's engine would work
if applied to the SF1 rules of gameplay (life meter, special moves,
etc.)
Terrence Briggs
Peace to you...
terrell gibbs
Briggs <mrm...@peopleweb.com> wrote:
> One more thing about the Final Fight connection: The hit detection
> for SFII just SCREAMS Final Fight. Sure, opponents receiving a hit
> would be knocked backwards (so you couldn't wail on them they way you
> would in FF), but knowing the contact points of FF's characters
> actually does carry over into a SF2 experience.
>
> Perhaps the developers at Capcom figured that FF's engine would work
> if applied to the SF1 rules of gameplay (life meter, special moves,
> etc.)
>
The style of the artwork of SFII is also very similar to FF. I presume
that there was considerable overlap in the develoment teams.
Unfortunately, Capcom never turned around and imported the best
features of SFII into a FF-style beat-em-up. I kept waiting for a
FF-style game featuring the SFII characters. It was ultimately left to
Treasure to do a SFII-style beat-em-up (Guardian Heroes).
Terrence Briggs
> In article <b2a55274.02050...@posting.google.com>, Terrence
> Briggs <mrm...@peopleweb.com> wrote:
>
> > One more thing about the Final Fight connection: The hit detection
> > for SFII just SCREAMS Final Fight. Sure, opponents receiving a hit
> > would be knocked backwards (so you couldn't wail on them they way you
> > would in FF), but knowing the contact points of FF's characters
> > actually does carry over into a SF2 experience.
> >
> > Perhaps the developers at Capcom figured that FF's engine would work
> > if applied to the SF1 rules of gameplay (life meter, special moves,
> > etc.)
> >
>
> The style of the artwork of SFII is also very similar to FF. I presume
> that there was considerable overlap in the develoment teams.
Lessee...the "flaming body" animation sequence...the throw animation
sequences for Cody, Ryu, and Ken...maybe Zangief had a few
similarities with Haggar that I hadn't noticed.
In all fairness, Chill Penguin's "flaming body" sequence in Mega Man X
was similar, too :)
> Unfortunately, Capcom never turned around and imported the best
> features of SFII into a FF-style beat-em-up. I kept waiting for a
> FF-style game featuring the SFII characters. It was ultimately left to
> Treasure to do a SFII-style beat-em-up (Guardian Heroes).
X-Men: Wrath of the Apocalypse, and its sequel were as close as they
got. They were serviceable SNES beat-em-ups with only one plane
(instead of FF's free-roaming floor), so things like crouching were
possible. Each of the five heroes had SFII-style joystick rotations
for the special moves. The average bad guy in the games was a
pushover, but some of the bosses were boss :)
For my money, Ninja Warriors Again (developed by Natsume for Taito) is
the more challenging and exciting title in the 2D melee fighter
subgenre. Instead of dodging enemies by circling around them like
Final Fight, you have to block, crouch, and/or jump out of danger.
Many of the enemies are merciless, as well. Tell 'em about it, Alan
:)
I'm trying to find a used copy of the game again, but I'm not having
any luck.
Terrence Briggs, who can find a 7th Saga in every Gamestop, but no
Ninja Warriors Again
Peace to you...