N64 and PS system wars
Nick
I think it should be:
Graphics: N64 (There is stuff the PSX cannot do)
Quality of Games: PSX
Sound Effects: N64 (Better sound chips)
Music: PSX (You can`t beat CD recorded stuff)
Quantity of Games: PSX (Goes without saying, its been out longer)
Controller: Even (Both have Analogue Pads)
Accesories: Even (Both have their share of pointless add-ons)
So PSX scores 3/7
The N64 scores 2/7
2/7 are Even
You can see the systems are fairly evenly matched but the PSX is a better
choice right now, the N64 *may* catch up and overtake it one-day.
jmal...@erols.com wrote in message <6hqvtn$epa$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Hello All. I do not wish to bash other systems but:
>N64 Clearly has the advantage in almost every catagory.
>GRPHICS: n64
>QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
>sound: n64
>quanity of games: ps
>controller: n64
>accesories: n64
>
>As Sony Games Department pres put it (in a meeting):
>
>"We can't really keep up with N(intendo) too well...
>They've got 100 great games out in the US (YES! 100 in the US at least 300
in
>japan!!!!) and we've got 250 bad games, save FF7 and a few others! Gamers
are
>gonna be aware of PS's tech(nical) limits soon!"
>
>That is a REAL quote from a tape recorder that someone had in the meeting!
>
>N64 ROCKS!
>
>All who agree, REJOICE! For PS is going DOWN all over the world!
>
>-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Nick
Chiral Fox
jmal...@erols.com wrote in message <6hqvtn$epa$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Hello All. I do not wish to bash other systems but:
>N64 Clearly has the advantage in almost every catagory.
>GRPHICS: n64
Gosh. My computer can outperform both the Playstation and the N64 by a
longshot.
>QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
I can play StarCraft on my computer!
>sound: n64
My computer supports loadable wavetables on the fly, .wav, .pcx, .mpx, and
Redbook audio!
>quanity of games: ps
PCs have lasted longer than any console and by far have the most games!
>controller: n64
Keyboard, mouse, gamepad, pedals, steering wheel, force feedback, the PC has
anything you need!
>accesories: n64
PCs have unlimited expandibility!
>As Sony Games Department pres put it (in a meeting):
>
>"We can't really keep up with N(intendo) too well...
>They've got 100 great games out in the US (YES! 100 in the US at least 300
in
>japan!!!!) and we've got 250 bad games, save FF7 and a few others! Gamers
are
>gonna be aware of PS's tech(nical) limits soon!"
>
>That is a REAL quote from a tape recorder that someone had in the meeting!
>
>N64 ROCKS!
>
>All who agree, REJOICE! For PS is going DOWN all over the world!
Actually, you're strongly mistaken. The number of games doesn't quite
approach 100, most of the N64 games are horrible, and for once, the US
actually has a number of games that Japan doesn't. I like my Playstation,
and I like Nintendo 64, and I like my Saturn too, but I like my PC the most.
To each their own.
-- Chiral Fox
"Familiarity breeds contempt."
Alexander Schaewe
Man what have you been doing?*L* 100 games in the US? I think
not...where are all of them....and 300 in Japan....geez you must be
really wasted.
• Alexander(Sephiroth)
------------------------
Webmaster for
Sephiroth no Sekai
http://seph.simplenet.com
------------------------
Reviewer for
Nintendo Square
http://surf.to/nsquare/
------------------------
Kyle...just Kyle
jmal...@erols.com wrote in message <6hqvtn$epa$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Hello All. I do not wish to bash other systems but:
>N64 Clearly has the advantage in almost every catagory.
You are bashing other systems. Slightly hypocritical if you ask me.
>GRPHICS: n64
>QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
>sound: n64
>quanity of games: ps
>controller: n64
>accesories: n64
Very debatable. Especially the quality of games,sound, controller, anc
accessories. I don't think anyone will take you seriously.
>As Sony Games Department pres put it (in a meeting):
>
>"We can't really keep up with N(intendo) too well...
>They've got 100 great games out in the US (YES! 100 in the US at least 300
in
>japan!!!!) and we've got 250 bad games, save FF7 and a few others! Gamers
are
>gonna be aware of PS's tech(nical) limits soon!"
>
>That is a REAL quote from a tape recorder that someone had in the meeting!
Sure. There aren't 100 N64 games in the US, nor are there 300 N64 games in
Japan. Even if the Playstation has 250 bad games that leaves 1000 good
games. You should learn some info before you troll again.
>N64 ROCKS!
>
>All who agree, REJOICE! For PS is going DOWN all over the world!
Blah blah blah. Slightly humorous though.
-------------------------
Digital Ages Online independent video games network
-------- Playstation N64
http://www.digital-ages.com senior editor, news editor
-------------------------
MAD
>
>jmal...@erols.com wrote in message <6hqvtn$epa$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>>Hello All. I do not wish to bash other systems but:
>>N64 Clearly has the advantage in almost every catagory.
>>GRPHICS: n64
>
>
>Gosh. My computer can outperform both the Playstation and the N64 by a
>longshot.
Yes but if I want to keep my computer up to date to play all the
latest games that means big bucks.
>
>>QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
>
>
>I can play StarCraft on my computer!
I can son play it on my playstation.
>
>>sound: n64
>
>
>My computer supports loadable wavetables on the fly, .wav, .pcx, .mpx, and
>Redbook audio!
No matter what game I buy I know I won't have sound configuration
problems.
>>quanity of games: ps
>
>
>PCs have lasted longer than any console and by far have the most games!
If you have an up to date system forget about old games unless you
have slowing programs and If you want to play the games coming out 2
years from now better start saving for upgrades now. As long as it's a
playstation game it will work. I could also own every console ever
created for less than a new computer.
>
>>controller: n64
>
>
>Keyboard, mouse, gamepad, pedals, steering wheel, force feedback, the PC has
>anything you need!
I have a ms sidewinder game pad great controller better then any
console controller but I can only get it to work with about 50% of
games, it doesn't do me any good then.
>
>>accesories: n64
>
>
>PCs have unlimited expandibility!
Yes if you have an unlimited budget and the expandibility isn't a
choice for gamers it's required to keep up with current games.
>
>>As Sony Games Department pres put it (in a meeting):
>>
>>"We can't really keep up with N(intendo) too well...
>>They've got 100 great games out in the US (YES! 100 in the US at least 300
>in
>>japan!!!!) and we've got 250 bad games, save FF7 and a few others! Gamers
>are
>>gonna be aware of PS's tech(nical) limits soon!"
>>
>>That is a REAL quote from a tape recorder that someone had in the meeting!
>>
>>N64 ROCKS!
>>
>>All who agree, REJOICE! For PS is going DOWN all over the world!
>
>
>Actually, you're strongly mistaken. The number of games doesn't quite
>approach 100, most of the N64 games are horrible, and for once, the US
>actually has a number of games that Japan doesn't. I like my Playstation,
>and I like Nintendo 64, and I like my Saturn too, but I like my PC the most.
>To each their own.
I like my playstation, use to like computers until $2000 went down the
drain on my latest major overhaul. I simply can't get into a platform
where you have to keep spending money, a lot of money just to keep up
with the latest games. My pc has now become a box where I can find
playstation games. I agree with N64 the few games I want look good but
too many kid games and no cd makes me wary.
Ken Small
jmal...@erols.com yammered...
Suuuuuuuure you don't.
>N64 Clearly has the advantage in almost every catagory.
>GRPHICS: n64
>QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
>sound: n64
>quanity of games: ps
>controller: n64
>accesories: n64
Well, I'd give the edge to the PS for sound, quality, and accessories.
And controller if you count the dual analog, but the N64 otherwise.
So, "clearly" the advantage belongs to the PS.
>As Sony Games Department pres put it (in a meeting):
>
>"We can't really keep up with N(intendo) too well...
>They've got 100 great games out in the US (YES! 100 in the US at least 300 in
>japan!!!!) and we've got 250 bad games, save FF7 and a few others! Gamers are
>gonna be aware of PS's tech(nical) limits soon!"
>
>That is a REAL quote from a tape recorder that someone had in the meeting!
I sincerely hope you made that up, becuase if somebody told it to you
and you believed them, you have a rough, sad life ahead of you. I
imagine a portfolio full of Florida real estate and a bridge or two.
For the record: The PS has just over 400 games in the US and over 1000
in Japan, the N64 had less than 100 in Japan and around 60 in the US.
Also: Sony doesn't have a "Games department." Funny they'd be worried
about keeping up when they're currently ahead in both installed base
and systems selling now.
The notion that the PS has all bad games except for a few is the mating
call of the Nintendrone. Funny, though, it's always a different game
that gets mentioned as the "good" one, and if you list them all, it
gets pretty long. So I guess even Nintendrones agree collectively, the
list of good PS games is very long. They include Tomb Raider 1 and 2,
Tekken, Soul Edge, Twisted Metal 2, Castlevania, Resident Evil, FF7,
Wipeout XL, and others. And that's just the list from people who hate the
system! Imagine how long that list gets if you like it!
>N64 ROCKS!
Hey, actually, in many ways it does. Perhaps the first even partially
true thing in the post. Now where are the games that really show it
off?
>All who agree, REJOICE! For PS is going DOWN all over the world!
Is the color of the sky on this world is blue, like ours?
--
-Ken
Magic 8-Ball sez: Don't count on it
Freeman
jmal...@erols.com wrote in message <6hqvtn$epa$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Hello All. I do not wish to bash other systems but:
>N64 Clearly has the advantage in almost every catagory.
>GRPHICS: n64
>QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
>sound: n64
>quanity of games: ps
>controller: n64
>accesories: n64
>
How about the disadvantages that the N64 also has?
FMV: limited if possible
quality of games: what good is it if they are not the games people like?
sound: ps has cd quality sound, what do you want?
quantity of games: n64 is obvious lacking this
controller: n64 is great but so is the psx one. Sure, n64 rumbles but psx
has the dual analog which may even be better.
accessories: what accessories does an n64 that psx does not have?
if you are talking about 64DD, then you are talking about an upgrade which
will be a must, not an accessory....otherwise, psx has lotsa accessories as
well.
i did indeed thought about buying a n64 in the past but gave up the idea.
Reason? quantity of games are low and most of the releases are not for me.
Carts are more expensive. The foreseen requirement of $100 for the 64DD.
Let me put it this way, it is not the time to buy n64 yet, maybe later.
i will have to admit, given that psx is only 32-bit and n64 is 64-bit and
newer, psx is most likely to be reaching its limit while n64 still has
potential. In fact, i believe psx will die before n64 unless it gets an
upgrade or something...
>As Sony Games Department pres put it (in a meeting):
>
>"We can't really keep up with N(intendo) too well...
>They've got 100 great games out in the US (YES! 100 in the US at least 300
in
>japan!!!!) and we've got 250 bad games, save FF7 and a few others! Gamers
are
>gonna be aware of PS's tech(nical) limits soon!"
>
>That is a REAL quote from a tape recorder that someone had in the meeting!
>
>N64 ROCKS!
>
>All who agree, REJOICE! For PS is going DOWN all over the world!
>
W. Benjamin Fletcher
On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:09:38 GMT, swa...@avana.net (MAD) wrote:
>>>QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
>>
>>I can play StarCraft on my computer!
>
>I can son play it on my playstation.
>>
But with no mouse, and horrible resolution. BTW, when did Blizzard say
they were releasing StarCraft for PSX?
>>>sound: n64
>>
>>
>>My computer supports loadable wavetables on the fly, .wav, .pcx, .mpx, and
>>Redbook audio!
>
>No matter what game I buy I know I won't have sound configuration
>problems.
>
You shouldn't even OWN a computer if you have problems playing these
types of files, since they're pretty much idiot-proof.
>
>>>controller: n64
>>Keyboard, mouse, gamepad, pedals, steering wheel, force feedback, the PC has
>>anything you need!
>
>I have a ms sidewinder game pad great controller better then any
>console controller but I can only get it to work with about 50% of
>games, it doesn't do me any good then.
>
Again, if you can't get the MS Sidewinder Pad to work, I don't think
you're qualified to talk about computers.
Ben
-={ To get my real email address, remove the NOSPAM }=-
SPAMMERS!!! Read this!!!
No spam for me! Unwanted, unsolicited commmercial email
WILL be dealt with.. And, why the hell do you even bother
sending the shit if you don't include your own return address?
Nick
I believe the PSX has reached its technical limitations, all future games to
come out, won`t surprise anyone in terms of graphical capabilities,
especially when you own a N64, nothing on the PSX technically really
surprises you, as you know the N64 can do better, having said that the PSX
graphics are still very nice, and do the job very well.
Plus the sequels of the best games ever made are out or are coming out (Tomb
Raider 2, Res Evil 2, Final Fantasy 7, Formula `97, Tekken 3, Cool Boarders
2) I believe this year maybe the PSX`s final hour, (maybe something will
come out next year that will totally blow it away, like PSX 2, or maybe the
N64 will take off) but I think now is the best time to own one.
I would say if you own a PC, and can`t afford to keep upgrading it, to play
Quake 2 etc, and just want fun now, get a PSX (and think about buying
N64/PSX 2 if future) if you`ve owned a PSX for a couple of years, and are
looking for something new, then buy a N64, if you got an N64, and are
starved of some of the best quality games around, at a reasonable price,
then buy a PSX and F1 `97, FFVII, Resident Evil 2, Tekken 3, and be happy in
the knowledge that your N64 is technically the better machine.
Freeman wrote in message <35417...@nemo.idirect.com>...
Chiral Fox
Actually my main point was that staring at one platform squarely and
remaining devoutly religious to its use makes you miss out on lots of good
games. Until Dead or Alive came out the best fighting game I owned was
Fighter's Megamix for Saturn. Shining the Holy Ark was a lot more fun than
Wild Arms in my opinion, and the N64 has some nice exploration/adventure
type games. PCs don't require as much upgrading as the industry would like
consumers to believe, and problems are becoming less and less with every
passing year. Actually I think StarCraft for Playstation will suck rocks,
not just because it lacks a mouse interface, or because the graphics won't
be as nice, but because you won't be able to play massive multiplayer games.
That feature pretty much makes the game. Multiplayer and fast advancement in
technology are the advantages of the PC platform, but definitely at a
greater cost than consoles.
-- Chiral Fox
"Familiarity breeds contempt."
>>Gosh. My computer can outperform both the Playstation and the N64 by a
>>longshot.
>
>Yes but if I want to keep my computer up to date to play all the
>latest games that means big bucks.
>
>>
>>>QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
>>
>>
>>I can play StarCraft on my computer!
>
>I can son play it on my playstation.
>>
>>>sound: n64
>>
>>
>>My computer supports loadable wavetables on the fly, .wav, .pcx, .mpx, and
>>Redbook audio!
>
>
>No matter what game I buy I know I won't have sound configuration
>problems.
>
>>>quanity of games: ps
>>
>>
>>PCs have lasted longer than any console and by far have the most games!
>
>If you have an up to date system forget about old games unless you
>have slowing programs and If you want to play the games coming out 2
>years from now better start saving for upgrades now. As long as it's a
>playstation game it will work. I could also own every console ever
>created for less than a new computer.
>
>>
>>>controller: n64
>>
>>
>>Keyboard, mouse, gamepad, pedals, steering wheel, force feedback, the PC
has
>>anything you need!
>
>I have a ms sidewinder game pad great controller better then any
>console controller but I can only get it to work with about 50% of
>games, it doesn't do me any good then.
>
>>
>>>accesories: n64
>>
>>
>>PCs have unlimited expandibility!
>
>Yes if you have an unlimited budget and the expandibility isn't a
>choice for gamers it's required to keep up with current games.
>
>>
>>>As Sony Games Department pres put it (in a meeting):
>>>
>>>"We can't really keep up with N(intendo) too well...
>>>They've got 100 great games out in the US (YES! 100 in the US at least
300
>>in
>>>japan!!!!) and we've got 250 bad games, save FF7 and a few others! Gamers
>>are
>>>gonna be aware of PS's tech(nical) limits soon!"
>>>
>>>That is a REAL quote from a tape recorder that someone had in the
meeting!
>>>
>>>N64 ROCKS!
>>>
>>>All who agree, REJOICE! For PS is going DOWN all over the world!
>>
>>
Charles Miller Jr.
Nick wrote in message <3541a...@nnrp1.news.uk.psi.net>...
>I believe the PSX has reached its technical limitations, all future games
to
>come out, won`t surprise anyone in terms of graphical capabilities,
>especially when you own a N64, nothing on the PSX technically really
>surprises you, as you know the N64 can do better, having said that the PSX
>graphics are still very nice, and do the job very well.
NOBODY'S PERFECT, is that YOU?!?!?!
Are you back from the dead? Awesome! There is a whole new batch of newbies
that hasn't heard the "maxxed out" spiel! Thanks for brining this NG
favorite back from the dead!
Henrik Johansson
N64 has a lot more advanced graphics hardware than PS
or any PC for that matter except a few PCs currently
supplied with woodoo-2 cards. The feature called Z-buffer
and the pixmap transformation capabilities are found only
on much more expensive hardware, not in PS or standard PC.
This is a fact that can be confirmed by anybody with the
proper knowledge. The computer industry has a way to always
promote the biggest seller to remain biggest, not the most
cleverly constructed one. That is why PS sells so good.
jmal...@erols.com wrote:
>
> Hello All. I do not wish to bash other systems but:
> N64 Clearly has the advantage in almost every catagory.
> GRPHICS: n64
> QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
> sound: n64
> quanity of games: ps
> controller: n64
> accesories: n64
>
> As Sony Games Department pres put it (in a meeting):
>
> "We can't really keep up with N(intendo) too well...
> They've got 100 great games out in the US (YES! 100 in the US at least 300 in
> japan!!!!) and we've got 250 bad games, save FF7 and a few others! Gamers are
> gonna be aware of PS's tech(nical) limits soon!"
>
> That is a REAL quote from a tape recorder that someone had in the meeting!
>
> N64 ROCKS!
>
> All who agree, REJOICE! For PS is going DOWN all over the world!
>
> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
--
(If responding by e-mail, replace "nospam" with "stockholm"
Charles Miller Jr.
Henrik Johansson wrote in message
<3542204A...@nospam.mail.telia.com>...
>The feature called Z-buffer
>and the pixmap transformation capabilities are found only
>on much more expensive hardware, not in PS or standard PC.
Obviously you are either over exagerating the price of a Voodoo 1 card, or
you didn't know it has Z buffering and texture manipulation routines... My
guess is you didn't know what you were talking about.
>This is a fact that can be confirmed by anybody with the
>proper knowledge.
Well, I have proper knowledge, and you are wrong.
>The computer industry has a way to always
>promote the biggest seller to remain biggest, not the most
>cleverly constructed one. That is why PS sells so good.
Um, the PSX sells so much because it has games people want. Backing this is
CD technology, more polys per second, and most importantly a good 3rd party
policy that Nintendo could learn a lot from. Cleverly construted? Now,
that is debateable in the least. It uses homogeneous RAM, not as good as
dedicated RAM, but more flexable as to what you use it for... but not that
big of a deal. Sound and graphics on one chip? Not the most clever idea,
except from a financial aspect. Cart without CD? Once again, purely a
financial decission and evidently not a very good one. Now, come on, games
is what you should be talking about, since you can know about those by just
playing them.
Jesse Dorland
On or around Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:24:08 -0600, a member of the Kuwaiti
Mafia, under the alias jmal...@erols.com, was spotted delivering the
following message in discrete brown packaging to Lenny, the
funny-smelling guy on the pier:
>Hello All. I do not wish to bash other systems but:
>N64 Clearly has the advantage in almost every catagory.
>GRPHICS: n64
Hmmm... debatable.
>QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
Also debatable.
>sound: n64
VERY debatable.
>quanity of games: ps
Ok.
>controller: n64
That's a matter of opinion.
>As Sony Games Department pres put it (in a meeting):
>
>"We can't really keep up with N(intendo) too well...
>They've got 100 great games out in the US (YES! 100 in the US at least 300 in
>japan!!!!) and we've got 250 bad games, save FF7 and a few others! Gamers are
>gonna be aware of PS's tech(nical) limits soon!"
>
>That is a REAL quote from a tape recorder that someone had in the meeting!
Do you really have nothing better to do than post crap like this?
-Jesse
====================================================
Jesse Dorland
jessedorland AT hotmail DOT com
jester5858 on AIM
10268731 on ICQ
====================================================
Kyle...just Kyle
Henrik Johansson wrote in message
<3542204A...@nospam.mail.telia.com>...
>N64 has a lot more advanced graphics hardware than PS
>or any PC for that matter except a few PCs currently
>supplied with woodoo-2 cards. The feature called Z-buffer
>and the pixmap transformation capabilities are found only
>on much more expensive hardware, not in PS or standard PC.
>This is a fact that can be confirmed by anybody with the
>proper knowledge. The computer industry has a way to always
>promote the biggest seller to remain biggest, not the most
>cleverly constructed one. That is why PS sells so good.
The PSX has Z sorting, which is essentially the same thing. Also Z buffers
can be implemented in software for the PSX. And Voodoo cards have Z
buffering. Take some architecture classes before you post.
Steven Toth
While your computer can do everything that a psx and nintendo can do. For
the same price as a new close to top of line (say 2 grand) and one or two
games at $50 each. You can buy a PSX($150), A nintendo 64($150), a TV
($300), accessories (2 controlers for each system $100) and $1300 in
software! that amounts to 1300/2 (average price for a game is $50) 26
games! And if you mod your psx then it goes up to hundreds of games!
While computers are nice, you can get more games for your money with a
PSX/Nintendo 64.
Even though you can play Starcraft on the inet.
I also know that you can do a thousand more things on a computer then on a
PSX but we're talking only about games. And I've seen people buy computers
for $2000 and use them ONLY fo games. Usually solitare and ocasionally use
their checkbook.
Later
Jeff Shirton
On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:16:14 -0700, Chiral Fox wrote:
> Gosh. My computer can outperform both the Playstation and the N64 by a
> longshot.
The other poster was comparing two *consoles*. You know, those machines
made exclusively for gaming which cost ten times *less* than a computer?
(ie. they're cost-effective)
> >QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
> I can play StarCraft on my computer!
What does the naming of one title have to do with quality of games?
I have Goldeneye 007 on my N64, so what's your point?
> >sound: n64
> My computer supports loadable wavetables on the fly, .wav, .pcx, .mpx, and
> Redbook audio!
Btw, if you really want to compare the PC's to consoles, here's two reasons
why I don't use my PC for gaming:
a) I already have a computer (386-25 w/ 8meg), but would obviously have
to spend thousands of dollars upgrading in order to play most of the
games available today.
b) I've tried playing games whose minimum requirements fit what I have,
but even then I've head so many headaches trying to get them run due
to configuration errors, run-time errors, etc. etc. etc. Let me tell
you it's very frustrating spending thousands of dollars on a so-called
"game-machine" and then not being able to run the stupid game!
> >controller: n64
> Keyboard, mouse, gamepad, pedals, steering wheel, force feedback, the PC
> has anything you need!
You should know very well (since you claim to own those systems) that both
the PSX and N64 have steering wheel and pedals, and that the N64 has force
feedback. As for "keyboard, mouse", how are they in *any* way advantageous
for gaming?!
After all, they reason they *designed* the gamepad for the PC is because
the keyboard and mouse were not appropriate or adequate for gaming. Next
time think about your responses and only include the valid ones, okay?
> Actually, you're strongly mistaken. The number of games doesn't quite
> approach 100, most of the N64 games are horrible, and for once, the US
Define "most" and "horrible", please. I cannot agree with your opinion.
> -- Chiral Fox
Jeff Shirton shi...@hwfn.org
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"He didn't sound like a baseball player. He said things like
'Nevertheless', and 'if, in fact.' " -- Dan Quisenberry on Ted Simmons
--
__
Chiral Fox
>The other poster was comparing two *consoles*. You know, those machines
>made exclusively for gaming which cost ten times *less* than a computer?
>(ie. they're cost-effective)
I was being facetious about the issue of console comparison.
>> >QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
>
>> I can play StarCraft on my computer!
>What does the naming of one title have to do with quality of games?
>I have Goldeneye 007 on my N64, so what's your point?
There are good games on every system that's ever come out, except for maybe
the Jaguar. The point is that there is no point to claiming one system has
better games than the other.
>Btw, if you really want to compare the PC's to consoles, here's two reasons
>why I don't use my PC for gaming:
>
>a) I already have a computer (386-25 w/ 8meg), but would obviously have
> to spend thousands of dollars upgrading in order to play most of the
> games available today.
>
>b) I've tried playing games whose minimum requirements fit what I have,
> but even then I've head so many headaches trying to get them run due
> to configuration errors, run-time errors, etc. etc. etc. Let me tell
> you it's very frustrating spending thousands of dollars on a so-called
> "game-machine" and then not being able to run the stupid game!
Things have changed a bit, however, that is not the point I was trying to
make. I am not touting the PC platform as a better gaming experience than
any other platform.
>> >controller: n64
>
>> Keyboard, mouse, gamepad, pedals, steering wheel, force feedback, the PC
>> has anything you need!
>
>You should know very well (since you claim to own those systems) that both
>the PSX and N64 have steering wheel and pedals, and that the N64 has force
>feedback. As for "keyboard, mouse", how are they in *any* way advantageous
>for gaming?!
>
>After all, they reason they *designed* the gamepad for the PC is because
>the keyboard and mouse were not appropriate or adequate for gaming. Next
>time think about your responses and only include the valid ones, okay?
N64 has only limited force feedback. Full force feedback refers to the
increasing stiffness or movement of a controller in relation to events in
the game, in other words, if you pull up too fast while flying, the joystick
moves more stiffly while shaking. As for the keyboard and mouse...
Try playing Warcraft or Command and Conquer sometime with a control pad. If
you could play that way against someone with a mouse and keyboard, they
would destroy you. Quickly. The mouse is the most intuitive mainstream
"pointing" device for use with consoles or PCs at this time. The keyboard
offers the advantage of being "mapped" out, with well over 40 keys typically
available for use. First person shooters play much more smoothly with a
mouse and keyboard combination, as the mouse allows the player to look
around quickly while the keyboard controls their other actions. The reason
gamepads were designed for PCs is because more arcadey platform games don't
work so great with the keyboard all the time. Sort of the same reason that
steering wheels and pedals were created for PCs and consoles. They just fit
certain games better.
Next time think before you try to be condescending.
>> Actually, you're strongly mistaken. The number of games doesn't quite
>> approach 100, most of the N64 games are horrible, and for once, the US
>
>Define "most" and "horrible", please. I cannot agree with your opinion.
Horrible meaning that the game is sub-par in its genre and isn't exactly
great fun. Most of the fighting games that came out for N64.. (Fighter's
Destiny is good, though it's a bit innovative, it still can't really hold
water to the PSX and Saturn fighters). Mace, War Gods, Mortal Kombat
Trilogy. I would have liked to have seen a good translation of Cruisin' USA.
Shadows of the Empire had nice first and last levels, but the third person
shooter was fairly poor. Well, perhaps not most, but the small number of
good games makes the bad titles stick out that much more. I have hope for
the next year though, since developers will be getting more of a hold on
programming for the system and will be able to push more out of it.
Anyhow, I don't think there is a definitive system or platform. But satire
on Usenet seems to be something of a lost cause. . .
Chiral Fox
Henrik Johansson wrote in message
<3542204A...@nospam.mail.telia.com>...
>N64 has a lot more advanced graphics hardware than PS
>or any PC for that matter except a few PCs currently
>supplied with woodoo-2 cards. The feature called Z-buffer
>and the pixmap transformation capabilities are found only
>on much more expensive hardware, not in PS or standard PC.
>This is a fact that can be confirmed by anybody with the
>proper knowledge. The computer industry has a way to always
>promote the biggest seller to remain biggest, not the most
>cleverly constructed one. That is why PS sells so good.
The Voodoo 1 outdoes the N64 on graphics alone. The Riva128 does a pretty
good job with 3D graphics if you can live with per-polygon bilinear
filtering and without exponential fog. The Riva128 amazingly enough is
found in most computers sold by Dell and Gateway, and probably a few other
manufacturers as well. Which means their standard PCs can out-perform the
N64 graphically. Oh and, the PVR series of cards, including the PVRSG, do
not use Z-buffers.
John Smith
jmal...@erols.com wrote in message <6hqvtn$epa$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Hello All. I do not wish to bash other systems but:
>N64 Clearly has the advantage in almost every catagory.
>GRPHICS: n64
>QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
>sound: n64
>quanity of games: ps
>controller: n64
>accesories: n64
>
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
The psx is cd based . a cd can hold 650mb . most psx games are 400-600mb
long. The biggest games for N64 are under 20mb long! you do the math
Jeff Shirton
On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 01:09:53 -0400, Freeman wrote:
> jmal...@erols.com wrote in message <6hqvtn$epa$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> >N64 Clearly has the advantage in almost every catagory.
> >GRPHICS: n64
> >QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
> >sound: n64
> >quanity of games: ps
> >controller: n64
> >accesories: n64
> >
> How about the disadvantages that the N64 also has?
> FMV: limited if possible
Who cares about FMV? Obviously all of us who bought N64's don't really
care for it or "miss" it, and I've even seen lots of posts from PSX and
Saturn owners about how it's only great once but after that they can't
wait to press "Start" to skip through it.
Me, I join the camp that buys video games to play inteactively, not to
watch a movie.
> quality of games: what good is it if they are not the games people like?
I could say the same thing about:
"Quantity of games: what good is it if they are not the games people like?"
Which is exactly why I don't own a Playstation, because this "1000's of
games" crap is just that; crap.
But let's go back to your objection, namely that the quality games that
the N64 has are not to your liking. I'm quite at a loss here, as I can't
imagine what kind of games you like, since RPG's are really the only genre
that N64 doesn't have quality games for. What games *do* you like?
> quantity of games: n64 is obvious lacking this
He already mentioned that. What's the point in repeating it?
(Although personally, I still don't have enough free time on my
hands to complete all the N64 games that I want to, so there seems
to me to be enough quantity for my tastes.)
> controller: n64 is great but so is the psx one. Sure, n64 rumbles but psx
> has the dual analog which may even be better.
Well, the nice thing about the N64 analog is that it is standard issue,
so all games wishing to use it can do so. I have a problem playing some
Saturn games with my "Nights" analog controller, and I imagine PSX users
have the same problem with games not specifically designed for that
particular accessory. Same with PC gamepads, as was recently mentioned.
> accessories: what accessories does an n64 that psx does not have?
> if you are talking about 64DD, then you are talking about an upgrade which
> will be a must, not an accessory....
It sounds like you are misinformed. Why do you say that the 64DD will be
a ""must"?
> Carts are more expensive. The foreseen requirement of $100 for the 64DD.
Again, there is no such "requirement", as the 64DD is an *option*, and
future games will continue to be made not requiring the 64DD, just as some
games are still made which save to the cart itself, rather than using the
memory pak.
Kyle...just Kyle
Jeff Shirton wrote in message <6htbk7$d...@james.hwcn.org>...
>> Keyboard, mouse, gamepad, pedals, steering wheel, force feedback, the PC
>> has anything you need!
>
>You should know very well (since you claim to own those systems) that both
>the PSX and N64 have steering wheel and pedals, and that the N64 has force
>feedback. As for "keyboard, mouse", how are they in *any* way advantageous
>for gaming?!
The PSX has the sort of force feedback that the N64 has as well. But that's
not true force feedback, at least from a computer gamer's sense of the
definition.
Charles Miller Jr.
>Which is exactly why I don't own a Playstation, because this "1000's of
>games" crap is just that; crap.
Ah, you showed promise of not being a simple Nintendrone until that little
comment... tisk tisk tisk.....
>RPG's are really the only genre
>that N64 doesn't have quality games for.
Some would argue fighters, although I think KIG is good, but then again
there are more genres than nintendo has quality games for, or at least
current/many quality games for.
> Same with PC gamepads, as was recently mentioned.
Let me guess, by jody? I was also wondering what the standard issue PC game
controller was... Hmmm....
Charles Miller Jr.
>N64 has force feedback.
The N64 has a "rumble pak" but not force feedback. Two very different
things.
>As for "keyboard, mouse", how are they in *any* way advantageous
>for gaming?!
Oh my god you are stupid. A keyboard for such games as Wheel fo Fortune.
Mouse for games like Sim City, Diablo, etc, etc, etc.
Kyle...just Kyle
Jeff Shirton wrote in message <6htmv9$d...@james.hwcn.org>...
>> quality of games: what good is it if they are not the games people like?
>
>I could say the same thing about:
>
>"Quantity of games: what good is it if they are not the games people
like?"
As far as genres go, you're much more likely to find the genre you want in
quantity.
>Which is exactly why I don't own a Playstation, because this "1000's of
>games" crap is just that; crap.
This sentence smacks of bias.
>But let's go back to your objection, namely that the quality games that
>the N64 has are not to your liking. I'm quite at a loss here, as I can't
>imagine what kind of games you like, since RPG's are really the only genre
>that N64 doesn't have quality games for. What games *do* you like?
The N64 doesn't really have any quality fighters either.
>> controller: n64 is great but so is the psx one. Sure, n64 rumbles but
psx
>> has the dual analog which may even be better.
>
>Well, the nice thing about the N64 analog is that it is standard issue,
>so all games wishing to use it can do so. I have a problem playing some
>Saturn games with my "Nights" analog controller, and I imagine PSX users
>have the same problem with games not specifically designed for that
>particular accessory. Same with PC gamepads, as was recently mentioned.
Sony's taking steps to rectify that. In Japan the dual analogues are
standard issue with all new Playstation units. The dual analogue is just a
standard PSX pad with two extra analogue thumbsticks, so there aren't any
problems playing games not designed for it.
Vineet Kumar Gossain
In article <6husfq$fae$1...@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>,
Kyle...just Kyle <ky...@digital-ages.com> wrote:
>
>Jeff Shirton wrote in message <6htmv9$d...@james.hwcn.org>...
>>
>>so all games wishing to use it can do so. I have a problem playing some
>>Saturn games with my "Nights" analog controller, and I imagine PSX users
>>have the same problem with games not specifically designed for that
>>particular accessory. Same with PC gamepads, as was recently mentioned.
>
>
>Sony's taking steps to rectify that. In Japan the dual analogues are
>standard issue with all new Playstation units. The dual analogue is just a
>standard PSX pad with two extra analogue thumbsticks, so there aren't any
>problems playing games not designed for it.
>
The bigger problem is that game designers cannot expect that the user has
a dual analog controller, so cannot design a game that needs the analog
control. Also, if the penetration of the analog controller is not too
high, the adding of optional analog support may not be worth it to the
game designer.
I guess if Sony is shipping Playstations with analog controllers now,
then there should be a fair amount of penetration. Do you know if they
plan on doing this in the US as well?
Vin
Kyle...just Kyle
Jeff Shirton wrote in message <6htmv9$d...@james.hwcn.org>...
>> quality of games: what good is it if they are not the games people like?
>
>I could say the same thing about:
>
>"Quantity of games: what good is it if they are not the games people
like?"
As far as genres go, you're much more likely to find the genre you want in
quantity.
>Which is exactly why I don't own a Playstation, because this "1000's of
>games" crap is just that; crap.
This sentence smacks of bias.
>But let's go back to your objection, namely that the quality games that
>the N64 has are not to your liking. I'm quite at a loss here, as I can't
>imagine what kind of games you like, since RPG's are really the only genre
>that N64 doesn't have quality games for. What games *do* you like?
The N64 doesn't really have any quality fighters either.
>> controller: n64 is great but so is the psx one. Sure, n64 rumbles but
psx
>> has the dual analog which may even be better.
>
>Well, the nice thing about the N64 analog is that it is standard issue,
>so all games wishing to use it can do so. I have a problem playing some
>Saturn games with my "Nights" analog controller, and I imagine PSX users
>have the same problem with games not specifically designed for that
>particular accessory. Same with PC gamepads, as was recently mentioned.
Sony's taking steps to rectify that. In Japan the dual analogues are
standard issue with all new Playstation units. The dual analogue is just a
standard PSX pad with two extra analogue thumbsticks, so there aren't any
problems playing games not designed for it.
Kyle...just Kyle
Vineet Kumar Gossain wrote in message <6huuab$g...@epic1.Stanford.EDU>...
>I guess if Sony is shipping Playstations with analog controllers now,
>then there should be a fair amount of penetration. Do you know if they
>plan on doing this in the US as well?
Not sure. In the greater scheme of things it would make sense. A lot of
the major Japanese developers are supporting the dual shock ( either both
shock and analogue or just shock support ). I think that if some US
develoeprs are receptive to it then they'll go ahead and do it.
Enigma
just on thing...refrain from using the ternm 'saturn'oin these
contexts...sega's marketing flaws an a-level student could point out...it's
sickenign how sega has dealt with the market...just abominable
Jeff Shirton wrote in message <6htmv9$d...@james.hwcn.org>...
>On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 01:09:53 -0400, Freeman wrote:
>
>> jmal...@erols.com wrote in message <6hqvtn$epa$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>> >N64 Clearly has the advantage in almost every catagory.
>> >GRPHICS: n64
>> >QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
>> >sound: n64
>> >quanity of games: ps
>> >controller: n64
>> >accesories: n64
>> >
>> How about the disadvantages that the N64 also has?
>> FMV: limited if possible
>
>Who cares about FMV? Obviously all of us who bought N64's don't really
>care for it or "miss" it, and I've even seen lots of posts from PSX and
>Saturn owners about how it's only great once but after that they can't
>wait to press "Start" to skip through it.
>
>Me, I join the camp that buys video games to play inteactively, not to
>watch a movie.
>
>> quality of games: what good is it if they are not the games people like?
>
>I could say the same thing about:
>
>"Quantity of games: what good is it if they are not the games people
like?"
>
>Which is exactly why I don't own a Playstation, because this "1000's of
>games" crap is just that; crap.
>
>But let's go back to your objection, namely that the quality games that
>the N64 has are not to your liking. I'm quite at a loss here, as I can't
>imagine what kind of games you like, since RPG's are really the only genre
>that N64 doesn't have quality games for. What games *do* you like?
>
>> quantity of games: n64 is obvious lacking this
>
>He already mentioned that. What's the point in repeating it?
>(Although personally, I still don't have enough free time on my
>hands to complete all the N64 games that I want to, so there seems
>to me to be enough quantity for my tastes.)
>
>> controller: n64 is great but so is the psx one. Sure, n64 rumbles but
psx
>> has the dual analog which may even be better.
>
>Well, the nice thing about the N64 analog is that it is standard issue,
>so all games wishing to use it can do so. I have a problem playing some
>Saturn games with my "Nights" analog controller, and I imagine PSX users
>have the same problem with games not specifically designed for that
>particular accessory. Same with PC gamepads, as was recently mentioned.
>
Jesse Dorland
On or around 25 Apr 1998 18:09:45 -0400, a member of the Kuwaiti Mafia,
under the alias aa...@james.hwcn.org (Jeff Shirton), was spotted
delivering the following message in discrete brown packaging to Lenny,
the funny-smelling guy on the pier:
>> How about the disadvantages that the N64 also has?
>> FMV: limited if possible
>
>Who cares about FMV? Obviously all of us who bought N64's don't really
>care for it or "miss" it, and I've even seen lots of posts from PSX and
>Saturn owners about how it's only great once but after that they can't
>wait to press "Start" to skip through it.
Depends on the game, I guess. FMV is used to great effect in Final
Fantasy 7; some of the cutscenes are simply breathtaking, even after
you've already seen them. Ditto for the limited video in Final Fantasy
Tactics and Resident Evil 2 (IMHO). They don't always necessarily make
a game better, but I can't think of any title I've played where FMV
sequences were detrimental.
>Me, I join the camp that buys video games to play inteactively, not to
>watch a movie.
Does that mean you'd rather have games with no cutscenes at all,
pre-rendered or otherwise?
Charles Miller Jr.
>Me, I join the camp that buys video games to play inteactively, not to
>watch a movie.
Hahaha! Join the camp! Gotta love it! Now we just need Hermain to run
around yelling "The Marios are coming!"
Jeff Shirton
On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:47:54 -0700, Chiral Fox wrote:
> >What does the naming of one title have to do with quality of games?
> >I have Goldeneye 007 on my N64, so what's your point?
> There are good games on every system that's ever come out, except for maybe
> the Jaguar. The point is that there is no point to claiming one system has
> better games than the other.
Well, you're point is worthless then.
Just because all systems have "good" games, doesn't mean that you can't
compare the "good" games from one system with the "good" games from another
system, and determine which of those "good" games are *better* and which
of those "good" games are *worse*.
A good example is Siskel & Ebert's 'thumbs up' evaluation of movies.
Anything that they both give 'thumbs up' to should be 'good', but lately
I've seen them both give movies, 'this is a marginally thumbs up', and
such a movie is going to be nowhere as good as one where they both give
it an enthusiastic thumbs up.
> would destroy you. Quickly. The mouse is the most intuitive mainstream
> "pointing" device for use with consoles or PCs at this time. The keyboard
I would think that the light gun would be the most intuitive. However, I've
never had an problems simply pointing with an analog joypad.
(To support your point, however, how many games were written to support
the Nintendo mouse? <g>)
> offers the advantage of being "mapped" out, with well over 40 keys typically
> available for use. First person shooters play much more smoothly with a
> mouse and keyboard combination, as the mouse allows the player to look
> around quickly while the keyboard controls their other actions. The reason
Sorry, but I can't even imagine Goldeneye playing any more 'smoothly' than
it already does with the (I guess) "primitive" analog control pad.
> gamepads were designed for PCs is because more arcadey platform games don't
> work so great with the keyboard all the time.
Bingo!
> Sort of the same reason that steering wheels and pedals were created for
> PCs and consoles. They just fit certain games better.
Yeah, and we all know how many arcade games there are with built in
keyboards, such a cheap and 'ideal' control, right?
> Next time think before you try to be condescending.
<sigh> This insulting (and false, obviously) comment pretty much
invalidates your whole post. Grow up, okay?
> >Define "most" and "horrible", please. I cannot agree with your opinion.
> Horrible meaning that the game is sub-par in its genre and isn't exactly
"Horrible" = "sub-par"?! Gimme a break!
> great fun. Most of the fighting games that came out for N64.. (Fighter's
> Destiny is good, though it's a bit innovative, it still can't really hold
> water to the PSX and Saturn fighters). Mace, War Gods, Mortal Kombat
> Trilogy. I would have liked to have seen a good translation of Cruisin' USA.
> Shadows of the Empire had nice first and last levels, but the third person
Well, for "horrible" you've mentioned Cruisin' USA, SOTE, and a few fighters.
But then, you've not mentioned:
- Goldeneye - WaveRace
- 1080 Snowboarding - Top Gear Rally
- Blast Corps - Tetrisphere
- Super Mario 64 - Bomberman 64
- Int. Superstar Soccer 64 - Madden 64
- NHL Breakaway - Mario Kart 64
- Star Fox 64 - Pilotwings 64
And that's only off the top of my head for quality, non-"horrible" games.
And you've also mentioned Fighters Destiny as a non-horrible game.
So you can see, perhaps, why I take issue not only with your use of
"horrible", but also your understanding of the meaning of "most".
(And you accuse *me* of not thinking before posting?!)
> shooter was fairly poor. Well, perhaps not most, but the small number of
> good games makes the bad titles stick out that much more. I have hope for
Maybe for you... Maybe you're just the kind of person who tends to focus
on the negative. Me, I simply forget about the bad games, since I don't
want to play them anyway, and focus instead of the MANY *fun* games that
the N64 has to offer.
> -- Chiral Fox
Jeff Shirton shi...@hwfn.org
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jared
I guess size is the determining factor for fun then, eh?
John Smith wrote:
> jmal...@erols.com wrote in message <6hqvtn$epa$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> >Hello All. I do not wish to bash other systems but:
> >N64 Clearly has the advantage in almost every catagory.
> >GRPHICS: n64
> >QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
> >sound: n64
> >quanity of games: ps
> >controller: n64
> >accesories: n64
> >
>
Jeff Shirton
On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:19:57 -0500, Charles Miller Jr. wrote:
> >Which is exactly why I don't own a Playstation, because this "1000's of
> >games" crap is just that; crap.
> Ah, you showed promise of not being a simple Nintendrone until that little
> comment... tisk tisk tisk.....
What's the matter, Chuck, can't bear to deal with the *TRUTH*?!
Can't bear to hear the *FACTS*?!
Scared so much that someone might dare to disagree with your *OPINION*
that you can'd deal with it?
And the only way you can deal with that is with the *PATHETIC* little
insult "he's a simple Nintendrone"?
<sigh>
I used to have a little bit of respect for you, Chuck, but if all you can
do is call people names whenever someone dares to disagree with you, and
not issue *any* facts to support your own opinion, then that makes you
quite the pathetic little individual indeed.
> >RPG's are really the only genre
> >that N64 doesn't have quality games for.
> Some would argue fighters, although I think KIG is good, but then again
Yes, I know others would argue the same thing about KIG. And I personally
would argue that Fighters Destiny and WCW vs. NWO are also quality games.
> there are more genres than nintendo has quality games for, or at least
> current/many quality games for.
Such as...?
Again, we see your post is pretty much devoid of any factual data, and
consists of nothing more than vague gainsayings and namecalling.
> > Same with PC gamepads, as was recently mentioned.
> Let me guess, by jody? I was also wondering what the standard issue
> PC game controller was... Hmmm....
Why bring Jody into this? In all honesty, I can't remember who it was,
but I was pretty sure that it wasn't Jody. But even so, the only reason
I repeated it was that I *also* have first-hand experience with that
problem. So stop trying to bring up red herrings, okay?
Jeff Shirton
On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:19:57 -0500, Charles Miller Jr. wrote:
> >Which is exactly why I don't own a Playstation, because this "1000's of
> >games" crap is just that; crap.
> Ah, you showed promise of not being a simple Nintendrone until that little
> comment... tisk tisk tisk.....
You know, this little name-calling thing of yours is really bugging me.
I guess it's bugging me because I really can't understand the point of
the name-calling.
a) Is it to build up (false) self-esteem in yourself?
b) Is it to try to hurt the other guy?
c) Is it to try to convince the other person that he's wrong?
d) Is it to try to convince others not to listen to me?
Well, if it's (a) or (b), then all I can say is "grow up".
If it's (c), then you are sadly mistaken if you think name-calling is
going to change my opinion of Playstation games. I've played most of
the ones that are hyped as "great", and I have to disagree with the
hype. And pointless name-calling is certainly not going to change my
experience and my opinion of the games. It certainly changes my opinion
of *you*, Chuck, and not for the better.
And if it's (d), I don't really see how that works, either. For that
matter, I don't see why you think my posts can't stand up for themselves,
and your posts stand up for themselves. After all, if others need some
"genius" like Chuck Miller to tell them who to believe and who not to,
isn't that quite insulting to their *own* intellect?
So please tell me, Chuck, if you can...
Why do you resort to namecalling (ie. "Nintendrone"), while at the same
time avoiding facts and valid points? (Just curious)
Accept it or not, Chuck, you're part of the problem, not part of the
solution.
MAD
On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:25:17 +0200, "Johan" <xcc...@tninet.se> wrote:
>How the hell can you say that the graphics of the PSX can be equal to the
>N64 when the N64 has at least three times more proccesor power 33mhz -
>93+67.
>
Well it depends on what you like in graphics. A lot of people find N64
graphics to blurry and it uses way to much fog. Also a lot of people
like cutscenes which the N64 does not have.
Jeff Shirton
On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:50:08 -0500, Charles Miller Jr. wrote:
> >N64 has force feedback.
> The N64 has a "rumble pak" but not force feedback. Two very different
> things.
Let's see.
The 'rumble pak" gives *feedback*.
The 'rumble pak" gives feed back by way of *force*.
Therefore, the rumble pak *is* force feedback.
Therefore, Chuck Miller considers "force feedback" and force feedback
to be "two very different things".
And you call *me* "stupid". Sheesh.
AFAIK, "force feedback" is not a registered trademark, hence you can't
claim the rumble pak isn't force feedback. It may not give the *degree*
of force feedback that may be available on the PC, but it's still force
feedback. By definition.
> >As for "keyboard, mouse", how are they in *any* way advantageous
> >for gaming?!
> Oh my god you are stupid.
<sigh> You really have to lean on that crutch of name-calling, don't
you, Chuck? I guess that's what happens when the facts aren't on your
side.
> A keyboard for such games as Wheel fo Fortune.
I can play Wheel of Fortune just fine without a keyboard. Maybe it's just
you that's uncoordinated, I don't know. (Here's a social hint, Chuck...
Just because someone validly disagrees with you doesn't make them "stupid".
Stupid.
> Mouse for games like Sim City, Diablo, etc, etc, etc.
As I responded to someone else before, seems to me that a light gun or
light pen would be easier and more intuitive than a "mouse" for such
things (again, if you are so inept that you can't get the proper control
with an analog stick).
"Oh my god you are stupid."
Kyle...just Kyle
MAD wrote in message <3543c37a...@news.avana.net>...
Also the N64 processor architecture and overall configuration is very
different from the PSX's.
Charles Miller Jr.
>Let's see.
>The 'rumble pak" gives *feedback*.
>The 'rumble pak" gives feed back by way of *force*.
>Therefore, the rumble pak *is* force feedback.
Oh yes, I guess any idiom built of words must mean exactly what those words
mean... I mean, all those linguists who waste all that time studying idioms
must be stupid...
>AFAIK, "force feedback" is not a registered trademark, hence you can't
>claim the rumble pak isn't force feedback. It may not give the *degree*
>of force feedback that may be available on the PC, but it's still force
>feedback. By definition.
Um, would you please give us this definition of force feedback you claim to
have somewhere?
>
>> >As for "keyboard, mouse", how are they in *any* way advantageous
>> >for gaming?!
>
>> Oh my god you are stupid.
><sigh> You really have to lean on that crutch of name-calling, don't
>you, Chuck? I guess that's what happens when the facts aren't on your
>side.
"wa wa wa, he called me a name mommy, wa wa wa"
>> A keyboard for such games as Wheel fo Fortune.
>I can play Wheel of Fortune just fine without a keyboard. Maybe it's just
>you that's uncoordinated, I don't know. (Here's a social hint, Chuck...
>Just because someone validly disagrees with you doesn't make them "stupid".
>
>Stupid.
"wa wa wa, he called me a name mommy" Hypocrite. LOL. You MUST be stupid
if you think that a keyboard is not advantageous for such games as Wheel of
Fortune, etc. I think you are now just playing devil's advocate.
>> Mouse for games like Sim City, Diablo, etc, etc, etc.
>As I responded to someone else before, seems to me that a light gun or
>light pen would be easier and more intuitive than a "mouse" for such
>things (again, if you are so inept that you can't get the proper control
>with an analog stick).
>"Oh my god you are stupid."
Hypocrite. Man, you really are stupid. A lightpen on a video game with
non-standard sized, setup, etc. apllications. Obviously you don't know what
a lightpen actually is. And a light gun for such games?! LOL, I'm guessing
you are just trying to be an atagonist here, because that is utterly
ignorant.
Charles Miller Jr.
Johan wrote in message <6i0c8f$k3b$3...@cubacola.tninet.se>...
>How the hell can you say that the graphics of the PSX can be equal to the
>N64 when the N64 has at least three times more proccesor power 33mhz -
>93+67.
MHz doesn't equal the power of the chip...
tbr...@trinity.edu
In article <6hu94r$k58$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
"Charles Miller Jr." <cwmi...@uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> >Which is exactly why I don't own a Playstation, because this "1000's of
> >games" crap is just that; crap.
>
> Ah, you showed promise of not being a simple Nintendrone until that little
> comment... tisk tisk tisk.....
Sorry, this guy sounds familiar. He's not a Nintendo drone; he just says the
PSX is the only next-gen system of the big three that he doesn't want to own.
He might as well be a Sega drone, too.
> >RPG's are really the only genre
> >that N64 doesn't have quality games for.
>
> Some would argue fighters, although I think KIG is good, but then again
> there are more genres than nintendo has quality games for, or at least
> current/many quality games for.
I think you once argued the point about quality platformers...
> > Same with PC gamepads, as was recently mentioned.
>
> Let me guess, by jody? I was also wondering what the standard issue PC game
> controller was... Hmmm....
Hey, I wanted to introduce Jody to Jeff, but I have enough exictement in my
life...
Peace to you.
>
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
tbr...@trinity.edu
In article <6husfq$fae$1...@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>,
"Kyle...just Kyle" <ky...@digital-ages.com> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >I could say the same thing about:
> >
> >"Quantity of games: what good is it if they are not the games people
> like?"
>
> quantity.
Tell that to the Atari 2600! :)
And after the Genesis' two-year, 100+ -game head start over the SNES, head
start over the SNES, many would argue they never got a decent RPG outside of
Phantasy Star 2 and maybe 3, never got a decent racer until...Viruta Racing,
never got a decent fighter until SFII, and never got a decent platformers
until Sonic (or Castle of Illusion, but I just despise that game).
Depends on your point-of-view.
> >Which is exactly why I don't own a Playstation, because this "1000's of
> >games" crap is just that; crap.
>
> This sentence smacks of bias.
Or opinion, depending on your mood.
> >But let's go back to your objection, namely that the quality games that
> >the N64 has are not to your liking. I'm quite at a loss here, as I can't
> >imagine what kind of games you like, since RPG's are really the only genre
> >that N64 doesn't have quality games for. What games *do* you like?
>
> The N64 doesn't really have any quality fighters either.
This sentence smacks of bias.
Or opinion, depending on your mood :)
I raise up again for KI Gold.
As forgenres that one DOES like, the PSX boosters I know love their PSX RPGs,
and others love Tekken and the Capcom fighters, the racers (minus the "circus
animals"), and Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, and Colony Wars. These games,
according to their supporters, are experiences that are currently not found
on the N64, and this is just a sampling.
> >> controller: n64 is great but so is the psx one. Sure, n64 rumbles but
> psx
> >> has the dual analog which may even be better.
> >
> >Well, the nice thing about the N64 analog is that it is standard issue,
> >so all games wishing to use it can do so. I have a problem playing some
> >Saturn games with my "Nights" analog controller, and I imagine PSX users
> >have the same problem with games not specifically designed for that
> >particular accessory. Same with PC gamepads, as was recently mentioned.
>
> Sony's taking steps to rectify that. In Japan the dual analogues are
> standard issue with all new Playstation units. The dual analogue is just a
> standard PSX pad with two extra analogue thumbsticks, so there aren't any
> problems playing games not designed for it.
And how much does it cost? Standard-issue controllers should be packaged
with the console, not accessories.
All told, the PSX controller is just fine for me -- most of the time. The
SNES controller was the one I loved most: Sturdy, ergonomic, with well-placed
buttons. The Sony and N64 pads would work betterwith my hands if those
blasted grip bars weren't there (they give me serious cramps, more so than
the SNES controller).
But I digress...
Terrence Briggs
> -------------------------
> Digital Ages Online independent video games network
> -------- Playstation N64
> http://www.digital-ages.com senior editor, news editor
> -------------------------
>
>
Jared
Chiral Fox wrote:
> Johan wrote in message <6i0c8f$k3b$3...@cubacola.tninet.se>...
> >How the hell can you say that the graphics of the PSX can be equal to the
> >N64 when the N64 has at least three times more proccesor power 33mhz -
> >93+67.
>
> Megahertz ratings don't mean that much on RISC systems. The Playstation can
> push around 360,000 textured and shaded polygons. The Nintendo 64 can do
> over 100,000 with Z-buffer, bilinear filtering, and anti-aliasing. Just for
> comparison purposes, a Voodoo 2 at spec runs at 90 MHz, but has a fillrate
> of 90 Mpixels per second.
I would like to know what universal test machine that you got these
Polygons/per second ratings from... you should no that there is none, and the
above is pure specualtion which is most likely false. It all depends on the
size of the polys, textured, zbuffered, etc... so far, there is no universal
test...
Jared
MAD wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:25:17 +0200, "Johan" <xcc...@tninet.se> wrote:
>
> >How the hell can you say that the graphics of the PSX can be equal to the
> >N64 when the N64 has at least three times more proccesor power 33mhz -
> >93+67.
> >
>
> Well it depends on what you like in graphics. A lot of people find N64
> graphics to blurry and it uses way to much fog. Also a lot of people
> like cutscenes which the N64 does not have.
Or just plain popup (PSX) vs. the fog of the N64...
Kyle...just Kyle
Jeff Shirton wrote in message <6i04nf$1...@james.hwcn.org>...
>On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:50:08 -0500, Charles Miller Jr. wrote:
>
>> >N64 has force feedback.
>
>> The N64 has a "rumble pak" but not force feedback. Two very different
>> things.
>
>Let's see.
>
>The 'rumble pak" gives *feedback*.
>The 'rumble pak" gives feed back by way of *force*.
Technically true.
>Therefore, the rumble pak *is* force feedback.
No. True force feedback is something else altogether.
>Therefore, Chuck Miller considers "force feedback" and force feedback
>to be "two very different things".
And he is correct.
>And you call *me* "stupid". Sheesh.
You sound like it.
>AFAIK, "force feedback" is not a registered trademark, hence you can't
>claim the rumble pak isn't force feedback. It may not give the *degree*
>of force feedback that may be available on the PC, but it's still force
>feedback. By definition.
It's not a question of degree. The rumble pack doesn't provide the kind of
force feedback that the PC controllers can provide.
>I can play Wheel of Fortune just fine without a keyboard. Maybe it's just
>you that's uncoordinated, I don't know. (Here's a social hint, Chuck...
>Just because someone validly disagrees with you doesn't make them "stupid".
You can play just fine with a light gun, or even a twister pad. But the
keyboard is mode ideal.
Kyle...just Kyle
Johan wrote in message <6i0c8f$k3b$3...@cubacola.tninet.se>...
>How the hell can you say that the graphics of the PSX can be equal to the
>N64 when the N64 has at least three times more proccesor power 33mhz -
>93+67.
Because MHz does not equal processor power. A non-pipelined processor
running at 200 MHz can be less powerful than a fully pipelined superscalar
processor running at 50 MHz.
Charles Miller Jr.
>> Some would argue fighters, although I think KIG is good, but then again
>> there are more genres than nintendo has quality games for, or at least
>> current/many quality games for.
>I think you once argued the point about quality platformers...
I don't know. What is there? Mario? Well, to some that is "the best game
ever" to me it was a let down. That might have had something to do with all
the hype around it at the time.
Kyle...just Kyle
Chiral Fox wrote in message <6i0nbk$gfn$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>...
>Um. I just gave you the information on what each system can do. The
>Playstation can't do edge anti-aliasing and as far as I know doesn't use
>bilinear filtering. What does a universal test machine have to do with
>anything? The manufacturers know how to benchmark their own equipment.
>Furthermore the size of a polygon is irrelevent, since large polygons would
>cover smaller polygons in the z-buffer and prevent masked polys from being
>textured. I did say that all polys were textured and used shading, however
>z-buffer never comes up in the Playstation's specs. It's possible that it
>doesn't use a z-buffer at all.
The Playstation uses Z sorting.
Charles Miller Jr.
Jared wrote in message <3543DB10...@mailhost1.csusm.edu>...
> Or just plain popup (PSX) vs. the fog of the N64...
Um, GE has pop up, Mario 64, WCW, etc etc etc...... What is your point?
Charles Miller Jr.
>All told, the PSX controller is just fine for me -- most of the time. The
>SNES controller was the one I loved most: Sturdy, ergonomic, with
well-placed
>buttons. The Sony and N64 pads would work betterwith my hands if those
>blasted grip bars weren't there (they give me serious cramps, more so than
>the SNES controller).
>
>But I digress...
NES! That was the best! Naa Nanny Boo Boo!!!!!
:)
Jesse Dorland
On or around Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:25:17 +0200, a member of the Kuwaiti
Mafia, under the alias "Johan" <xcc...@tninet.se>, was spotted
delivering the following message in discrete brown packaging to Lenny,
the funny-smelling guy on the pier:
>How the hell can you say that the graphics of the PSX can be equal to the
>N64 when the N64 has at least three times more proccesor power 33mhz -
>93+67.
Oh, yay. Another person who judges system power solely by MHz, and to
hell with everything else.
Jeff Shirton
On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 04:46:41 -0400, Kyle...just Kyle wrote:
> >Which is exactly why I don't own a Playstation, because this "1000's of
> >games" crap is just that; crap.
> This sentence smacks of bias.
If by "bias" you mean "informed opinion based on first-hand experience",
then yes, it most certainly is.
> The N64 doesn't really have any quality fighters either.
That's nothing more than an *opinion*, and one that many would disagree
with due to KI Gold, and one I would disagree with due to Fighters Destiny.
> >Saturn games with my "Nights" analog controller, and I imagine PSX users
> >have the same problem with games not specifically designed for that
> >particular accessory. Same with PC gamepads, as was recently mentioned.
> Sony's taking steps to rectify that. In Japan the dual analogues are
> standard issue with all new Playstation units. The dual analogue is just a
> standard PSX pad with two extra analogue thumbsticks, so there aren't any
> problems playing games not designed for it.
What I mean ist hat existing games would have problems with the analog
thumbsticks, in much the same way that older Saturn games have problems
using the "Nights" analog pad.
(Btw, why did you post your message *twice*, Kyle? Being a veteran around
here, I would have expected you to know better...)
Johan
How the hell can you say that the graphics of the PSX can be equal to the
N64 when the N64 has at least three times more proccesor power 33mhz -
93+67.
>>GRPHICS: n64
>
>Hmmm... debatable.
>
>>QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
>
>Also debatable.
>
>>sound: n64
>
>VERY debatable.
>
>>quanity of games: ps
>
>Ok.
>
>>controller: n64
>
>That's a matter of opinion.
>
Chiral Fox
>> There are good games on every system that's ever come out, except for
maybe
>> the Jaguar. The point is that there is no point to claiming one system
has
>> better games than the other.
>
>Well, you're point is worthless then.
It's satirical. "A Modest Proposal" for video games if you will.
>Just because all systems have "good" games, doesn't mean that you can't
>compare the "good" games from one system with the "good" games from another
>system, and determine which of those "good" games are *better* and which
>of those "good" games are *worse*.
>A good example is Siskel & Ebert's 'thumbs up' evaluation of movies.
>Anything that they both give 'thumbs up' to should be 'good', but lately
>I've seen them both give movies, 'this is a marginally thumbs up', and
>such a movie is going to be nowhere as good as one where they both give
>it an enthusiastic thumbs up.
You're comparing individual games. The original poster stated that the N64
had better games in general. Not only is this a matter of opinion, but
treated as the broad sweeping generalization it is, how would one go about
proving it? If you wanted to look only at past reviews and count the number
of games that got rave reviews, the Playstation would probably win by its
sheer volume of games (between all the existing consoles).
>> would destroy you. Quickly. The mouse is the most intuitive mainstream
>> "pointing" device for use with consoles or PCs at this time. The keyboard
>
>I would think that the light gun would be the most intuitive. However,
I've
>never had an problems simply pointing with an analog joypad.
>
>(To support your point, however, how many games were written to support
>the Nintendo mouse? <g>)
I haven't seen too many games for light guns. Duck Hunt, Hogan's Alley,
Gotcha!, Point Blank and Time Crisis. I don't have any problems playing
Goldeneye with the analog control, but I can't do some of the slick Quake
moves like circle-strafing or quickly retreating around a corner while
firing off shots after spinning 180 degrees. Luckily, Goldeneye is more of a
strategic FPS. I'm afraid to look at Quake on N64.
>> offers the advantage of being "mapped" out, with well over 40 keys
typically
>> available for use. First person shooters play much more smoothly with a
>> mouse and keyboard combination, as the mouse allows the player to look
>> around quickly while the keyboard controls their other actions. The
reason
>
>Sorry, but I can't even imagine Goldeneye playing any more 'smoothly' than
>it already does with the (I guess) "primitive" analog control pad.
It doesn't seem intuitive at first, playing with keyboard and mouse, but
once you get used to it, you have more control than with any other
peripherals or controllers available. It is something you must experience
however. You might want to check out the guides on the web to using the
mouse for first person shooters (particularly Quake). You'd be surprised at
how much information they have...
>> gamepads were designed for PCs is because more arcadey platform games
don't
>> work so great with the keyboard all the time.
>
>Bingo!
Okay, Street Fighter 2 with the keyboard sucks. But Quake in my opinion with
a digital gamepad sucks too. Or Revolution X with a gamepad. Quake has been
released in arcades with a trackball, not a joystick.
>> Sort of the same reason that steering wheels and pedals were created for
>> PCs and consoles. They just fit certain games better.
>
>Yeah, and we all know how many arcade games there are with built in
>keyboards, such a cheap and 'ideal' control, right?
Not many arcade games go beyond the complexity of joysticks or steering
wheels. Strategy, RPG, and FPS games are left to be played at home for the
most part.
>> Next time think before you try to be condescending.
>
><sigh> This insulting (and false, obviously) comment pretty much
>invalidates your whole post. Grow up, okay?
"After all, they reason they *designed* the gamepad for the PC is because
the keyboard and mouse were not appropriate or adequate for gaming. Next
time think about your responses and only include the valid ones, okay?"
That was your sentence, not mine. It fits the definition of condescending,
so it not obviously false, and it is hardly insulting. Furthermore, one
non-flame statement doesn't invalidate an entire post.
>> >Define "most" and "horrible", please. I cannot agree with your opinion.
>
>> Horrible meaning that the game is sub-par in its genre and isn't exactly
>
>"Horrible" = "sub-par"?! Gimme a break!
I wouldn't pay for a sub-par game. I wouldn't even rent a sub-par game.
There's too many decent games out there to make time for the games that
didn't make the grade.
>> great fun. Most of the fighting games that came out for N64.. (Fighter's
>> Destiny is good, though it's a bit innovative, it still can't really hold
>> water to the PSX and Saturn fighters). Mace, War Gods, Mortal Kombat
>> Trilogy. I would have liked to have seen a good translation of Cruisin'
USA.
>> Shadows of the Empire had nice first and last levels, but the third
person
>
>Well, for "horrible" you've mentioned Cruisin' USA, SOTE, and a few
fighters.
>
>But then, you've not mentioned:
>
>- Goldeneye - WaveRace
>- 1080 Snowboarding - Top Gear Rally
>- Blast Corps - Tetrisphere
>- Super Mario 64 - Bomberman 64
>- Int. Superstar Soccer 64 - Madden 64
>- NHL Breakaway - Mario Kart 64
>- Star Fox 64 - Pilotwings 64
I actually own four of the games you listed. Goldeneye, 1080, Blast Corps
and Super Mario 64. They're great games, and I enjoy playing them. Which is
why I didn't mention them. Several of the other games you've listed haven't
appealed enough to me to want to rent them for one reason or another.
>And that's only off the top of my head for quality, non-"horrible" games.
>And you've also mentioned Fighters Destiny as a non-horrible game.
Non-horrible, but I still can't recommend that anyone with a PSX buy it.
They should save their money for Tekken 3 or Dead or Alive instead.
>So you can see, perhaps, why I take issue not only with your use of
>"horrible", but also your understanding of the meaning of "most".
Well, some reviewers would agree with me (or I agree with them, perhaps). A
game that does everything it should is on par, but that only makes it
average. A three star game. A game that doesn't do everything it should is
sub-par, a two star game. As for most, I do think I was hasty in its use.
Looking on Gamecenter's web site, I only count 45 N64 games including
previews. A significant portion of those are sports and racing games, which
I don't play. So I can't really say anything about those types of games.
Perhaps I should restate and say that most of the FPS and fighting games
aren't worth playing.
>(And you accuse *me* of not thinking before posting?!)
I didn't accuse you of not thinking, I said you were being condescending.
>> shooter was fairly poor. Well, perhaps not most, but the small number of
>> good games makes the bad titles stick out that much more. I have hope for
>
>Maybe for you... Maybe you're just the kind of person who tends to focus
>on the negative. Me, I simply forget about the bad games, since I don't
>want to play them anyway, and focus instead of the MANY *fun* games that
>the N64 has to offer.
Hm. You should read boot's Game Theory column for April, I think it was.
It's about the number of good games that manage to come out on PC as opposed
to bad ones. It's rather comical if you don't play PC games, since the grass
on the console side of the world is far greener on the issue of quality vs
quantity. The reason I am critical of Nintendo for producing games that just
don't cut it is because they've been coming out with new games too slowly.
That's looking to change though, thankfully.
Chiral Fox
>N64 when the N64 has at least three times more proccesor power 33mhz -
>93+67.
Megahertz ratings don't mean that much on RISC systems. The Playstation can
push around 360,000 textured and shaded polygons. The Nintendo 64 can do
over 100,000 with Z-buffer, bilinear filtering, and anti-aliasing. Just for
comparison purposes, a Voodoo 2 at spec runs at 90 MHz, but has a fillrate
of 90 Mpixels per second.
-- Chiral Fox
"Familiarity breeds contempt."
Chiral Fox
>> >N64 has force feedback.
>
>> The N64 has a "rumble pak" but not force feedback. Two very different
>> things.
>
>Let's see.
>
>The 'rumble pak" gives *feedback*.
>The 'rumble pak" gives feed back by way of *force*.
>
>
>to be "two very different things".
Actually force feedback is the increased resistance of the controller to
movement in direct relation to the degree of motion the player is placed
under. In other words, if you're playing SF Rush in the arcade and you try
to turn really fast, the steering wheel is going to fight you and prevent
you from straightening out. Only the PC has real force feedback controllers
right now, because they're fairly expensive. The rumble pak is not force
feedback by many peoples' gaming definitions.
>AFAIK, "force feedback" is not a registered trademark, hence you can't
>claim the rumble pak isn't force feedback. It may not give the *degree*
>of force feedback that may be available on the PC, but it's still force
>feedback. By definition.
>> >As for "keyboard, mouse", how are they in *any* way advantageous
>> >for gaming?!
>> A keyboard for such games as Wheel fo Fortune.
>
>I can play Wheel of Fortune just fine without a keyboard. Maybe it's just
>you that's uncoordinated, I don't know. (Here's a social hint, Chuck...
>Just because someone validly disagrees with you doesn't make them "stupid".
A keyboard is more convenient than a gamepad for playing Jeopardy. I've
played both ways.
>> Mouse for games like Sim City, Diablo, etc, etc, etc.
>
>As I responded to someone else before, seems to me that a light gun or
>light pen would be easier and more intuitive than a "mouse" for such
>things (again, if you are so inept that you can't get the proper control
>with an analog stick).
A light gun is not an intuitive pointing device. Your arm would get tired.
Light pens are fairly expensive when compared to mice, because their DPI is
dependent upon the quality of the pen as well as the pad that it ships with.
Also, it's harder to track fast movement. Light pens aren't really widely
supported except for artwork purposes.
Chiral Fox
>> Megahertz ratings don't mean that much on RISC systems. The Playstation
can
>> push around 360,000 textured and shaded polygons. The Nintendo 64 can do
>> over 100,000 with Z-buffer, bilinear filtering, and anti-aliasing. Just
for
>> comparison purposes, a Voodoo 2 at spec runs at 90 MHz, but has a
fillrate
>> of 90 Mpixels per second.
>
>Polygons/per second ratings from... you should no that there is none, and
the
>above is pure specualtion which is most likely false. It all depends on the
>size of the polys, textured, zbuffered, etc... so far, there is no
universal
>test...
Um. I just gave you the information on what each system can do. The
Playstation can't do edge anti-aliasing and as far as I know doesn't use
bilinear filtering. What does a universal test machine have to do with
anything? The manufacturers know how to benchmark their own equipment.
Furthermore the size of a polygon is irrelevent, since large polygons would
cover smaller polygons in the z-buffer and prevent masked polys from being
textured. I did say that all polys were textured and used shading, however
z-buffer never comes up in the Playstation's specs. It's possible that it
doesn't use a z-buffer at all.
-- Chiral Fox
"Familiarity breeds contempt."
Mark Hendren
On 26 Apr 1998 14:26:24 -0400, aa...@james.hwcn.org (Jeff Shirton)
wrote:
>On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:47:54 -0700, Chiral Fox wrote:
>Just because all systems have "good" games, doesn't mean that you can't
>compare the "good" games from one system with the "good" games from another
>system, and determine which of those "good" games are *better* and which
>of those "good" games are *worse*.
>
>A good example is Siskel & Ebert's 'thumbs up' evaluation of movies.
>Anything that they both give 'thumbs up' to should be 'good', but lately
>I've seen them both give movies, 'this is a marginally thumbs up', and
>such a movie is going to be nowhere as good as one where they both give
>it an enthusiastic thumbs up.
The trouble with this argument is that everyone is a critic. What one
person says is a good or great game, may be a piece of shit to someone
else. So it all boils down to plain opinion. If one person thinks
that the Playstation has a lot of great games, that's their OPINION.
If someone thinks that of the N64, that's their OPINION. There isn't
a single "God" of any kind out there that declares (such and such)
game to be "great" and (this) game "shitty".
Ah well, flame on....
Mark - mhen...@calwest.net
Late-Show.COM - http://www.late-show.com
"...webutainment at it's finest..." - Web Guide Magazine Mar/Apr 1998
Keith E. Young
Johan (xcc...@tninet.se) wrote:
: How the hell can you say that the graphics of the PSX can be equal to the
: N64 when the N64 has at least three times more proccesor power 33mhz -
: 93+67.
Granted, the N64 processor clocks in at a higher speed, but that can NOT
be directly correlated to "three times more processor power"...."processor
power" cannot be determined from clock speed.
As evidence, the PSX can push 300,000 polygons at a time with all effects
on, while the N64 can only push 150,000 with all effects on (granted the
N64 has more effects so even THAT comparison is moot).
--
-Keith Young
Ken Small
Jeff Shirton yammered...
>But let's go back to your objection, namely that the quality games that
>the N64 has are not to your liking. I'm quite at a loss here, as I can't
>imagine what kind of games you like, since RPG's are really the only genre
>that N64 doesn't have quality games for. What games *do* you like?
I'm still waiting for a strategy game (realtime or otherwise), any
classics compliations, or a car combat game. No Tomb Raider-type
game, no Resident Evil-type game, only one scrolling shooter, no air
combat simulator or Wing Commander-type game. No light-gun game. No
pinball game. I also like to have more variety within a genre to
choose from.
If I were a sports fan, I could list quite a few missing genres--
realistic hockey and basketball, any kind of baseball, golf, any
college sports game. God help the people who want a bowling or
fishing game, but if they do, they're not on the N64. No
racing-season sims, either.
RPG's are far from the only genre missing on the N64, merely the
biggest.
--
-Ken
Magic 8-Ball sez: Very Doubtful
Prawn
Jeff Shirton wrote:
> Maybe for you... Maybe you're just the kind of person who tends to focus
> on the negative. Me, I simply forget about the bad games, since I don't
> the N64 has to offer.
Yeah, I think people should focus on the good games for their system.
And when the amount of good games doesn't satisfy their needs, then they
should have cause for complaint.
But didn't you condemn the PSX for having 1000 games that you described
were crap? Now, if you can accept the N64 for it's share of crappy games
then why can't you do the same for the PSX?
Now I think that for every N64 game *every made* those who prefer the
PSX can name a PSX game that is good, and then some. So based on that,
if you really do concentrate on good games, then you should be
advocating the PSX.
Damn, I just know I'm going to be challenged to list 50 good PSX games.
--
Khoa Vuong . . . . ufs0...@email.sjsu.edu
"We'd tasted victory, and it was a flavor we liked."
Marty Chinn
Vineet Kumar Gossain (v...@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: The bigger problem is that game designers cannot expect that the user has
: a dual analog controller, so cannot design a game that needs the analog
: control. Also, if the penetration of the analog controller is not too
: high, the adding of optional analog support may not be worth it to the
: game designer.
Despite all this, a big portion of the games upcoming in Japan now, and
the ones released in the last 4 months have supported the Dual Shock pad.
Tekken 3. Dead or Alive, R-Types, G Darius, Tenchu, etc. So despite the
probability of this happening, the reality is a lot of companies are
having dual shock pad compatibility in their games.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marty Chinn ** E3 - May 28 - 30, 1998 **
Video Source PlayStation, Nintendo 64, Saturn, Imports
973 Foxglove Dr. M-F: 9:30-6:00, Sa: 10:00-3:00 PST, Sun: Closed
Sunnyvale, CA 94086 Ordering, and Preordering info at:
<408> 720-8575 Voice E-Mail: vids...@netcom.com
<408> 720-8576 FAX WWW : http://www.video-source.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phoenix Gamma
On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, MAD wrote:
> Well it depends on what you like in graphics. A lot of people find N64
> graphics to blurry and it uses way to much fog. Also a lot of people
> like cutscenes which the N64 does not have.
>
N64 graphics only look blurry or fuzzy if the programming was poor. But
on the other hand, a lot of PSX graphics look blocky and pixellated which
is just as bad if not worse.
I'm not putting down the PSX, I have one as well as an N64, but its
pretty obvious to me which one has better graphics. I only have to use
my eyes to work that one out...
You're right about the cut-scenes, though the N64 can't do those at all.
But then again, it really wasn't designed to do that sort of thing.
-me
Phoenix Gamma
This argument is stupid.
This whole thread is stupid. PSX graphics are not superior to N64
graphics, no matter how many polygon counts you quote or meaningless
figures you refer to. I should know what I'm talking about, I own both
machines, so I can see for myself which has better graphics...
-me
Phoenix Gamma
On 26 Apr 1998, Jesse Dorland wrote:
> Does that mean you'd rather have games with no cutscenes at all,
> pre-rendered or otherwise?
Well we did without them back in "the good old days"...
In any case, you can have cut scenes on the N64 if not necessarily FMV.
Look at Starfox, that uses the in-game graphics to create cut-scenes and
looks more cinematic than a jarring black screen and a cut to video
footage.
-me
Matt Austin
Jared wrote in message <3543B776...@mailhost1.csusm.edu>...
> I guess size is the determining factor for fun then, eh?
No, but it certainly doesn't hurt.
Chiral Fox
Phoenix Gamma wrote in message ...
Neither system has better graphics in general. It simply depends on what the
programmers do and how well they do it. N64 lacks the capability of using
pre-rendering backgrounds with polygonal overlays. Bitmaps take up too much
precious space and the N64 has very little as it is. PSX lacks a lot of 3D
rendering features and has some problems in special situations with polygon
rendering, for example, with rendering large polygons that have a large z
magnitude (close-up polygons). I own both machines as well. Dead or Alive on
PSX is by far superior graphically to Fighter's Destiny on N64. But Mario 64
is more impressive in my opinion than Tomb Raider 1 or 2. Benchmarks aren't
meaningless either, though they are not the end-all of graphics. Besides,
people that are thoroughly concerned with graphics have one of two options
for truly superior graphics: buy a PC, or wait for a Sega Katana.
Chiral Fox
Chiral Fox
Herman McClain
Charles Miller Jr. wrote:
>
> >Me, I join the camp that buys video games to play inteactively, not to
> >watch a movie.
>
> Hahaha! Join the camp! Gotta love it!
> Now we just need Hermain to run around yelling
> "The Marios are coming!"
Can your jokes get any lamer, Chuck?
Chiral Fox
>This argument is stupid.
No. What's stupid is that my newsgroup server is on crack and decided to
post my message three times, at least so far as I can see. Apologies to all.
Kyle...just Kyle
Jeff Shirton wrote in message <6i0p4r$7...@james.hwcn.org>...
>On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 04:46:41 -0400, Kyle...just Kyle wrote:
>
>> >Which is exactly why I don't own a Playstation, because this "1000's of
>> >games" crap is just that; crap.
>
>> This sentence smacks of bias.
>
>If by "bias" you mean "informed opinion based on first-hand experience",
>then yes, it most certainly is.
So you have actually played those "1000s" of games? There's a sizeable load
of crap out for the PSX, but then the PSX library is sizeable. The ratio is
more or less the same as any other system, N64 included.
>> The N64 doesn't really have any quality fighters either.
>
>That's nothing more than an *opinion*, and one that many would disagree
>with due to KI Gold, and one I would disagree with due to Fighters Destiny.
I've played both. They're nice and certainly much better than War Gods.
But they're no King of Fighters or Virtua Fighter/Tekken.
>> Sony's taking steps to rectify that. In Japan the dual analogues are
>> standard issue with all new Playstation units. The dual analogue is just
a
>> standard PSX pad with two extra analogue thumbsticks, so there aren't any
>> problems playing games not designed for it.
>
>What I mean ist hat existing games would have problems with the analog
>thumbsticks, in much the same way that older Saturn games have problems
>using the "Nights" analog pad.
Existing games don't use the thumbsticks.
>(Btw, why did you post your message *twice*, Kyle? Being a veteran around
>here, I would have expected you to know better...)
Because the state of my client/server are beyond my control. I'm surprised
you even bothered to raise this point as it's so trivial.
Darien Allen
On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 02:50:49 -0700, Herman McClain <mccl...@idt.net>
wrote:
I would think that probably depends on much new material you give him
to work with.....
-------------------------
Digital Ages Online
independent video games network
ICQ-2927081 - remove the TAKETHISOUT to reply
-------------------------
Nejimakidori
In article <Pine.ULT.3.91.980427101612.27628K-100000@rowan>,
Phoenix Gamma <ag...@coventry.ac.uk> wrote:
> In any case, you can have cut scenes on the N64 if not necessarily FMV.
> Look at Starfox, that uses the in-game graphics to create cut-scenes and
> looks more cinematic than a jarring black screen and a cut to video
> footage.
Have you played Final Fantasy VII? It moves 'seamlessly' from in-game
graphics to CD-streamed video and vice versa.
-MARKETING-
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Darien Allen
>On 26 Apr 1998, Jesse Dorland wrote:
>
>> Does that mean you'd rather have games with no cutscenes at all,
>> pre-rendered or otherwise?
>
>
>Well we did without them back in "the good old days"...
>
>In any case, you can have cut scenes on the N64 if not necessarily FMV.
>Look at Starfox, that uses the in-game graphics to create cut-scenes and
>looks more cinematic than a jarring black screen and a cut to video
>footage.
The hell we did..Ninja Gaiden would have BLOWN without those cut
scenes baby!
Kyle...just Kyle
Jeff Shirton wrote in message <6i01db$k...@james.hwcn.org>...
>On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:19:57 -0500, Charles Miller Jr. wrote:
>
>> >Which is exactly why I don't own a Playstation, because this "1000's of
>> >games" crap is just that; crap.
>
>> Ah, you showed promise of not being a simple Nintendrone until that
little
>> comment... tisk tisk tisk.....
>
>What's the matter, Chuck, can't bear to deal with the *TRUTH*?!
>Can't bear to hear the *FACTS*?!
>Scared so much that someone might dare to disagree with your *OPINION*
>that you can'd deal with it?
What's the difference between opinion and fact then? You think that "1000s"
of PSX games are just crap and that's truth. Someone doesn't agree with you
and that's opinion.
>And the only way you can deal with that is with the *PATHETIC* little
>insult "he's a simple Nintendrone"?
Well, because you are.
>I used to have a little bit of respect for you, Chuck, but if all you can
>do is call people names whenever someone dares to disagree with you, and
>not issue *any* facts to support your own opinion, then that makes you
>quite the pathetic little individual indeed.
You're doing exactly the same thing you're slamming him for.
>> there are more genres than nintendo has quality games for, or at least
>> current/many quality games for.
>
>Such as...?
RPGs come to mind easily.
>Again, we see your post is pretty much devoid of any factual data, and
>consists of nothing more than vague gainsayings and namecalling.
Which is suspiciously similar to what you're doing.
-------------------------
Digital Ages Online independent video games network
Kyle...just Kyle
Jeff Shirton wrote in message <6i01dc$k...@james.hwcn.org>...
>Why do you resort to namecalling (ie. "Nintendrone"), while at the same
>time avoiding facts and valid points? (Just curious)
You said that 1000s of PSX gams are crap. I don't think those type fo
things can be categorised as facts.
Joshua S Redford
On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 jmal...@erols.com wrote:
> Hello All. I do not wish to bash other systems but:
> N64 Clearly has the advantage in almost every catagory.
> GRPHICS: n64
true
> QUALITY OF GAMES: n64
opinion
> sound: n64
no, psx wins this category (although I really never was one that cared
immensely about the sound quality of a game)
> quanity of games: ps
> controller: n64
I agree, but this is also opinion
> accesories: n64
Don't know enough about it, but I would tend to agree with this also.
> As Sony Games Department pres put it (in a meeting):
Yeah right.
> "We can't really keep up with N(intendo) too well...
> They've got 100 great games out in the US (YES! 100 in the US at least 300 in
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I didn't know that the Sony Games Department pres. smoked crack.
> japan!!!!) and we've got 250 bad games, save FF7 and a few others! Gamers are
> gonna be aware of PS's tech(nical) limits soon!"
>
> That is a REAL quote from a tape recorder that someone had in the meeting!
Yeah, a meeting in your basement with your friends:)
>
> N64 ROCKS!
Agreed.
> For PS is going DOWN all over the world!
Nope.
Josh
Jeff Genovese
Lookie what Kyle...just Kyle (ky...@digital-ages.com) wrote:
: Johan wrote in message <6i0c8f$k3b$3...@cubacola.tninet.se>...
: >How the hell can you say that the graphics of the PSX can be equal to the
: >N64 when the N64 has at least three times more proccesor power 33mhz -
: >93+67.
: Because MHz does not equal processor power. A non-pipelined processor
: running at 200 MHz can be less powerful than a fully pipelined superscalar
: processor running at 50 MHz.
You're absolutely right. However, it would still be a stretch to claim
that the PlayStation's CPU is more powerful than the N64's. Neither are
"non-pipelined made it in ECT" specials.
The bigger issue is that the CPU doesn't do as much in a video game
system as in computer. The graphics and sound processors do the
motherload of the work (it's changed a bit with polygon based games, but
it's still basically true). Niether machine is incapable of playing
games with their current hardware. The N64 can do more things with
graphics, the PS more with sound, and both are more than adequate in
other areas.
Jeff
Phoenix Gamma
On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Darien Allen wrote:
> The hell we did..Ninja Gaiden would have BLOWN without those cut
> scenes baby!
>
Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but are you trying to say tha
games of old suffered because of lack of cut-scenes?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising the concept of cut-scenes, its
just that I feel some developers use these to cover up or flesh out poor
quality games on all formats.
-me
Charles Miller Jr.
>> >Which is exactly why I don't own a Playstation, because this "1000's of
>> >games" crap is just that; crap.
>> This sentence smacks of bias.
>If by "bias" you mean "informed opinion based on first-hand experience",
>then yes, it most certainly is.
Let's clarafy this... did you mean to say that the arguement that it is
better because it has more games is "crap" or that the actual games are
"crap"? I mean, "informed opinion" is not devoid of bias, so you don't have
a defense in that...
>(Btw, why did you post your message *twice*, Kyle? Being a veteran around
>here, I would have expected you to know better...)
And you should be smart enough to know he didn't do it on purpose.
Charles Miller Jr.
Herman McClain wrote in message <354454...@idt.net>...
>Can your jokes get any lamer, Chuck?
Yeah, they can.
Charles Miller Jr.
Kyle...just Kyle wrote in message <6i1l9k$7an$1...@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>...
>>> The N64 doesn't really have any quality fighters either.
>>That's nothing more than an *opinion*, and one that many would disagree
>>with due to KI Gold, and one I would disagree with due to Fighters
Destiny.
>I've played both. They're nice and certainly much better than War Gods.
>But they're no King of Fighters or Virtua Fighter/Tekken.
Now, FD is the most hyped piece of shit game I have ever played in my life
(over exageration) but KIG is much better than KoF (I own both). But, then
again that is just opinion.
Charles Miller Jr.
Stills are quite different from real time speed. The PSX graphics ARE
superiour if you want speed, but the stills don't look as good as the N64s,
but then again that also depends on the game. Say Crash Bandicoot vs Mario,
or on more comparable, GE.
Phoenix Gamma wrote in message ...
>
>This argument is stupid.
>
>This whole thread is stupid. PSX graphics are not superior to N64
>graphics, no matter how many polygon counts you quote or meaningless
>figures you refer to. I should know what I'm talking about, I own both
>machines, so I can see for myself which has better graphics...
>
>-me
Joshua S Redford
On 26 Apr 1998, Vineet Kumar Gossain wrote:
> I guess if Sony is shipping Playstations with analog controllers now,
> then there should be a fair amount of penetration.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?!?!?!?!?!
First N64 and Playstation suck and lick you and now the Playstation has "a
fair amount of penetration"? Sounds like a must-buy to me *lol*
Josh
Charles Miller Jr.
Jeff Genovese wrote in message <6i2bbt$eks$2...@news1.bu.edu>...
>The N64 can do more things with
>graphics, the PS more with sound, and both are more than adequate in
>other areas.
The thing is that Nintendo will never get the specs they say are benchmarked
because only a game with no sound would get that because of their choice to
go the "cheap" route and combine sound and graphics.
Jesse Dorland
On or around Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:20:56 +0100, a member of the Kuwaiti
Mafia, under the alias Phoenix Gamma <ag...@coventry.ac.uk>, was spotted
delivering the following message in discrete brown packaging to Lenny,
the funny-smelling guy on the pier:
>
>This argument is stupid.
>
>This whole thread is stupid. PSX graphics are not superior to N64
>graphics, no matter how many polygon counts you quote or meaningless
>figures you refer to. I should know what I'm talking about, I own both
>machines, so I can see for myself which has better graphics...
Yes, and anyone else who owns both systems can also see for themselves
which has better graphics, and their opinion will not necessarily match
yours. Personally, I think N64 games generally do look better than PSX
games. That said, I've never played a console game that wowed me more
with its graphics than Final Fantasy 7.
-Jesse
====================================================
Jesse Dorland
jessedorland AT hotmail DOT com
jester5858 on AIM
10268731 on ICQ
====================================================
Charles Miller Jr.
>N64 graphics only look blurry or fuzzy if the programming was poor. But
>on the other hand, a lot of PSX graphics look blocky and pixellated which
>is just as bad if not worse.
Um, that is a drastic double standard. PSX games made by good groups don't
has such things. Like even Crashbandicoot one. That level of detail with
little to no artafacting has yet to come out on the N64. Now, this is just
due to the game being made, not the system persay, but it is evident that
the N64 couldn't do a Crash Bandacoot with carts due to size.
Ken Small
Jeff Shirton yammered...
>What I mean ist hat existing games would have problems with the analog
>thumbsticks, in much the same way that older Saturn games have problems
>using the "Nights" analog pad.
Existing, pre-dual-analog games simply don't use the thumbsticks at
all. No problem whatsoever. The dual-analog pad has a traditional
d-pad as well as the two sticks.
I thought you said you were talking from experience, but this comment
shows you aren't.
--
-Ken
Magic 8-Ball sez: As I see it yes
Darien Allen
No actually it looks like I was saying that Ninja Gaiden would not
have been been as good without the cutscenes.
-------------------------
Digital Ages Online
independent video games network
Jared
Kyle...just Kyle wrote:
> Jeff Shirton wrote in message <6i04nf$1...@james.hwcn.org>...
> >On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:50:08 -0500, Charles Miller Jr. wrote:
> >
> >> >N64 has force feedback.
> >
> >> The N64 has a "rumble pak" but not force feedback. Two very different
> >> things.
> >
> >Let's see.
> >
> >The 'rumble pak" gives *feedback*.
> >The 'rumble pak" gives feed back by way of *force*.
>
> Technically true.
>
> >Therefore, the rumble pak *is* force feedback.
>
> No. True force feedback is something else altogether.
What is it then? You and Charles have only denied what he has said, but not
stated what TRUE force feedback is. I am just curious what yout definition is...
>
>
> >Therefore, Chuck Miller considers "force feedback" and force feedback
> >to be "two very different things".
>
> And he is correct.
>
> >And you call *me* "stupid". Sheesh.
>
> You sound like it.
Wow... an insight...
>
>
> >AFAIK, "force feedback" is not a registered trademark, hence you can't
> >claim the rumble pak isn't force feedback. It may not give the *degree*
> >of force feedback that may be available on the PC, but it's still force
> >feedback. By definition.
>
> It's not a question of degree. The rumble pack doesn't provide the kind of
> force feedback that the PC controllers can provide.
It's a matter of amount? I'm not flaming, just curious...
>
>
> >I can play Wheel of Fortune just fine without a keyboard. Maybe it's just
> >you that's uncoordinated, I don't know. (Here's a social hint, Chuck...
> >Just because someone validly disagrees with you doesn't make them "stupid".
>
> You can play just fine with a light gun, or even a twister pad. But the
> keyboard is mode ideal.
> -------------------------
> Digital Ages Online independent video games network
Jared
Charles Miller Jr. wrote:
> >Let's see.
>
> >The 'rumble pak" gives *feedback*.
> >The 'rumble pak" gives feed back by way of *force*.
>
> >Therefore, the rumble pak *is* force feedback.
>
> Oh yes, I guess any idiom built of words must mean exactly what those words
> mean... I mean, all those linguists who waste all that time studying idioms
> must be stupid...
What is Force Feedback then Charles...
>
>
> >AFAIK, "force feedback" is not a registered trademark, hence you can't
> >claim the rumble pak isn't force feedback. It may not give the *degree*
> >of force feedback that may be available on the PC, but it's still force
> >feedback. By definition.
>
> Um, would you please give us this definition of force feedback you claim to
> have somewhere?
I'm waiting to hear why the Rumble Pak is not from you...
>
>
> >
> >> >As for "keyboard, mouse", how are they in *any* way advantageous
> >> >for gaming?!
> >
> >> Oh my god you are stupid.
>
> ><sigh> You really have to lean on that crutch of name-calling, don't
> >you, Chuck? I guess that's what happens when the facts aren't on your
> >side.
>
> "wa wa wa, he called me a name mommy, wa wa wa"
This is a pathetic way of establishing ones credibility and slamming the
other post...
>
>
> >> A keyboard for such games as Wheel fo Fortune.
>
> >I can play Wheel of Fortune just fine without a keyboard. Maybe it's just
> >you that's uncoordinated, I don't know. (Here's a social hint, Chuck...
> >Just because someone validly disagrees with you doesn't make them "stupid".
> >
> >Stupid.
>
> "wa wa wa, he called me a name mommy" Hypocrite. LOL. You MUST be stupid
> if you think that a keyboard is not advantageous for such games as Wheel of
> Fortune, etc. I think you are now just playing devil's advocate.
>
> >> Mouse for games like Sim City, Diablo, etc, etc, etc.
>
> >As I responded to someone else before, seems to me that a light gun or
> >light pen would be easier and more intuitive than a "mouse" for such
> >things (again, if you are so inept that you can't get the proper control
> >with an analog stick).
>
> >"Oh my god you are stupid."
>
> Hypocrite. Man, you really are stupid. A lightpen on a video game with
> non-standard sized, setup, etc. apllications. Obviously you don't know what
> a lightpen actually is. And a light gun for such games?! LOL, I'm guessing
> you are just trying to be an atagonist here, because that is utterly
> ignorant.
I personally would prefer a mouse for a game like Sim City, etc, but if I
didnt have access to one on a console system, like the N64 or PSX, I would think
that either of their analog sticks would be just fine.
Jared
I'm just cruious what standardized test result you got those Polyiogonal
count figures from? Oh, wait there is none...
Keith E. Young wrote:
> Johan (xcc...@tninet.se) wrote:
> : How the hell can you say that the graphics of the PSX can be equal to the
> : N64 when the N64 has at least three times more proccesor power 33mhz -
> : 93+67.
>
> Granted, the N64 processor clocks in at a higher speed, but that can NOT
> be directly correlated to "three times more processor power"...."processor
> power" cannot be determined from clock speed.
>
> As evidence, the PSX can push 300,000 polygons at a time with all effects
> on, while the N64 can only push 150,000 with all effects on (granted the
> N64 has more effects so even THAT comparison is moot).
>
> --
> -Keith Young
Jared
Darien Allen wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:26:36 +0100, Phoenix Gamma
> <ag...@coventry.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Darien Allen wrote:
> >
> >> The hell we did..Ninja Gaiden would have BLOWN without those cut
> >> scenes baby!
> >>
> >
> >
> >Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but are you trying to say tha
> >games of old suffered because of lack of cut-scenes?
> >
> >Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising the concept of cut-scenes, its
> >just that I feel some developers use these to cover up or flesh out poor
> >quality games on all formats.
>
> No actually it looks like I was saying that Ninja Gaiden would not
> have been been as good without the cutscenes.
Any game that relies primarily on cutscenes is a game (for N64 or PSX)
which should be tossed in the garbage heap. I liked the Cinema's in Ninja
Gaiden, but they were fun games on top of that. It was the game I bought, not
the cinema's. I would have bought it without the cutscenes...
>
>
> -------------------------
> Digital Ages Online
> independent video games network
Jared
Darien Allen wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 02:50:49 -0700, Herman McClain <mccl...@idt.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Charles Miller Jr. wrote:
> >>
> >> >Me, I join the camp that buys video games to play inteactively, not to
> >> >watch a movie.
> >>
> >> Hahaha! Join the camp! Gotta love it!
> >> Now we just need Hermain to run around yelling
> >> "The Marios are coming!"
> >
> >Can your jokes get any lamer, Chuck?
>
> I would think that probably depends on much new material you give him
> to work with.....
Herman was merely making a point, and Charles jumps on him. That was a
weak display...
Jared
Chiral Fox wrote:
> >> >N64 has force feedback.
> >
> >> The N64 has a "rumble pak" but not force feedback. Two very different
> >> things.
> >
> >Let's see.
> >
> >The 'rumble pak" gives *feedback*.
> >The 'rumble pak" gives feed back by way of *force*.
> >
> >Therefore, the rumble pak *is* force feedback.
> >
> >Therefore, Chuck Miller considers "force feedback" and force feedback
> >to be "two very different things".
>
> Actually force feedback is the increased resistance of the controller to
> movement in direct relation to the degree of motion the player is placed
> under. In other words, if you're playing SF Rush in the arcade and you try
> to turn really fast, the steering wheel is going to fight you and prevent
> you from straightening out. Only the PC has real force feedback controllers
> right now, because they're fairly expensive. The rumble pak is not force
> feedback by many peoples' gaming definitions.
What is a good force feedback PC controller?
>
>
> >AFAIK, "force feedback" is not a registered trademark, hence you can't
> >claim the rumble pak isn't force feedback. It may not give the *degree*
> >of force feedback that may be available on the PC, but it's still force
> >feedback. By definition.
>
> >> >As for "keyboard, mouse", how are they in *any* way advantageous
> >> >for gaming?!
>
> >> A keyboard for such games as Wheel fo Fortune.
> >
> >I can play Wheel of Fortune just fine without a keyboard. Maybe it's just
> >you that's uncoordinated, I don't know. (Here's a social hint, Chuck...
> >Just because someone validly disagrees with you doesn't make them "stupid".
>
> A keyboard is more convenient than a gamepad for playing Jeopardy. I've
> played both ways.
>
> >> Mouse for games like Sim City, Diablo, etc, etc, etc.
> >
> >As I responded to someone else before, seems to me that a light gun or
> >light pen would be easier and more intuitive than a "mouse" for such
> >things (again, if you are so inept that you can't get the proper control
> >with an analog stick).
>
> A light gun is not an intuitive pointing device. Your arm would get tired.
> Light pens are fairly expensive when compared to mice, because their DPI is
> dependent upon the quality of the pen as well as the pad that it ships with.
> Also, it's harder to track fast movement. Light pens aren't really widely
> supported except for artwork purposes.
> -- Chiral Fox
>
> "Familiarity breeds contempt."
Darien Allen
>
>
>Kyle...just Kyle wrote:
>
>> Jeff Shirton wrote in message <6i04nf$1...@james.hwcn.org>...
>> >On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:50:08 -0500, Charles Miller Jr. wrote:
>> >
>> >> >N64 has force feedback.
>> >
>> >> The N64 has a "rumble pak" but not force feedback. Two very different
>> >> things.
>> >
>> >Let's see.
>> >
>> >The 'rumble pak" gives *feedback*.
>> >The 'rumble pak" gives feed back by way of *force*.
>>
>> Technically true.
>>
>> >Therefore, the rumble pak *is* force feedback.
>>
>> No. True force feedback is something else altogether.
>
> What is it then? You and Charles have only denied what he has said, but not
>stated what TRUE force feedback is. I am just curious what yout definition is...
If I might interject a few thoughs....without hearing the incessant
bias whinings of certain posters....
Play one of the deluxe cabinets of the popular driving games...feel
how the wheel apply's pressure in the reverse of the direction you
are? That's force feedback...ever driven a car? Probably not.....
Flight a helicopter.....feel how the the movement of the rotor causes
the helicopter to shake? Sometimes this translate into a shake that
can be felt through the control stick....force feeback.
Force feedback while the rumble pack and the Dual Shock do give
limited, is a bit more than just a stick vibrating.
Now this is not to say that even in this limited application it can be
used to great benefit of the player...."rumble" in a driving game used
to show the limits of your vehicles traction is valuable information
to you the driver.
Warren Jones
Jared wrote in message <3544E027...@mailhost1.csusm.edu>...
>Any game that relies primarily on cutscenes is a game (for N64 or >PSX)
which should be tossed in the garbage heap. I liked the >Cinema's in
Ninja Gaiden, but they were fun games on top of that. It >was the game I
bought, not the cinema's. I would have bought it >without >the cutscenes...
Remember Super Mario World on the Super NES... I wonder if those cutscenes
helped the game any... how let's compare that to Star Fox 64's cutscenes.
What's the difference besides visual appeal? It's all about story. And I'm
certain we know that Star Fox 64's storyline was aberrantly more detailed
than Super Mario Worlds -- which in detailed better, more involved cutscenes
for Starfox.
-Warren
Jared
The point is you cant not state what system can push how many polygons
because it all depends. Head over to any online source such as Nintendojo,
IGN64, NEXT Gen and look it up...
Chiral Fox wrote:
> >> Megahertz ratings don't mean that much on RISC systems. The Playstation
> can
> >> push around 360,000 textured and shaded polygons. The Nintendo 64 can do
> >> over 100,000 with Z-buffer, bilinear filtering, and anti-aliasing. Just
> for
> >> comparison purposes, a Voodoo 2 at spec runs at 90 MHz, but has a
> fillrate
> >> of 90 Mpixels per second.
> >
> > I would like to know what universal test machine that you got these
> >Polygons/per second ratings from... you should no that there is none, and
> the
> >above is pure specualtion which is most likely false. It all depends on the
> >size of the polys, textured, zbuffered, etc... so far, there is no
> universal
> >test...
>
> Um. I just gave you the information on what each system can do. The
> Playstation can't do edge anti-aliasing and as far as I know doesn't use
> bilinear filtering. What does a universal test machine have to do with
> anything? The manufacturers know how to benchmark their own equipment.
> Furthermore the size of a polygon is irrelevent, since large polygons would
> cover smaller polygons in the z-buffer and prevent masked polys from being
> textured. I did say that all polys were textured and used shading, however
> z-buffer never comes up in the Playstation's specs. It's possible that it
> doesn't use a z-buffer at all.