Another CGE '99 Note
Mylar
masses since it seems that the organizers of CGE '99 have made no official
announcements. Curt I know you responded to a few of my posts. Since you are
active on this board, I as I'm sure other Classic Gamers would love to hear
your side of the story. Please don't keep us in the dark.
"On a sad note, it is with deep regret that the Atari Historical
Society and dozens of its members are no longer attending or endorsing the
Classic Gaming Expo due to some issues surrounding it. I apologize to
everyone for not being in attendance with the massive Atari museum exhibit,
special showings of some of the rarest Atari items as well as many 'never
before seen in public' items. However, we will be in attendance at the
"Vintage Computer Festival #3" this coming October in Santa Clara,
California.
I ask everyone to please understand --- this was neither a hasty decision
nor an easy one. The AHS hopes that CGE99 will still come together and be
a wonderful event, however, we cannot participate this year."
http://www.atari-history.com/whatsnew/060999.html
Mylar
my...@sprynet.com
Rolenta
>Society and dozens of its members are no longer attending or endorsing the
>Classic Gaming Expo due to some issues surrounding it. I apologize to
>everyone for not being in attendance with the massive Atari museum exhibit,
>special showings of some of the rarest Atari items as well as many 'never
>before seen in public' items. However, we will be in attendance at the
>"Vintage Computer Festival #3" this coming October in Santa Clara,
>California.
This doesn't come as any surprise.
Classic Gaming Expo
Well its good to see at least someone involved with the CGE as a guest
understands that when situations arrise such as this, people have to pull out of
the event and not associate themselves if there is potentially bad issues
associated. Thank you for your supporting comment and understanding.
Curt
Jacob M. Kaplan
<my...@sprynet.com> wrote:
> I apologize to
> everyone for not being in attendance with the massive Atari museum exhibit,
> special showings of some of the rarest Atari items as well as many 'never
> before seen in public' items. However, we will be in attendance at the
> "Vintage Computer Festival #3" this coming October in Santa Clara,
> California.
Does this mean that Curt would have been the person bringing all the rare
items for the museum, and therefore, we will not see them? Or does HE
regret not being there to see the items himself?
I'm really P'Oed about people who pull out of events immediately when the
organizers of the event make a mistake. I'm sure it's a real hard job
organizing such a huge event, and how can we expect Keita and John to not
make a few mistakes? Oh, I'm SURE either Nolan or Curt could make a better
event, and not make any mistakes, eh?
I guess some people just love to whine about things...
cheers... Jacob
Michael Ebbetts
Yeah ya know, I remember seeing Namco on that spinning banner for quite a
while at the cgexpo site and now its gone, whats the deal with that ? So
maybe a lot more is going on then weve been lead to believe and how many other
guests on that list have left the show and just havent made any announcements,
how many other sponsors are going to quietly disappear ? If this is an event
that people are flying all over to go to and spending all this money on and then
pay a door fee too, they have a right to know what they are getting for the buck
here, hell if Bushnell hadnt made his own announcement then none of us would
have known and even though hes one of many he certainly the brighter star on the
list and all of a sudden he goes from being on the main page of the cgexpo site
next to one of the promoters and then overnight his picture and stuff is all
gone, do they tell us? No! So I agree, time for cgexpo to tell us all whats
going on and up to the show tell us whats going on, I for one want to go, but
not if I show up and there's 6 tables of assorted odds & ends, 4 guests and some
assorted items lying around to play with, cause unless we are all given updates
we could walk into something less then what we pay for and expect.
Mikey
>
>
> Ok... either my ISP is dropping messages, or no one still has mentioned
> exactly what happened. I've followed the threads for the past four days,
> even looked at relevant web pages, but am still clueless.
>
> In no particular order, I've heard:
> "doubts about the ability of the CGE team to produce a quality event"
> "questionable actions"
> "when situations arrise such as this"
> "due to some issues surrounding it"
> "Bushnell will no longer be participating in, nor endorsing"
> "AHS and dozens of its members are no longer attending or endorsing the CGE"
> "Namco was a sponsor and they are gone now"
> "general disgust with a few members of the classic gameing community"
> "Classic Gamers will never really know the 'real' story"
>
> Apparently at least dozens know. Will someone please tell the rest of us
> poor peons what's going on.
Leo Valiant
wrote:
>I'm really P'Oed about people who pull out of events immediately when the
>organizers of the event make a mistake. I'm sure it's a real hard job
>organizing such a huge event, and how can we expect Keita and John to not
>make a few mistakes? Oh, I'm SURE either Nolan or Curt could make a better
>event, and not make any mistakes, eh?
>
>I guess some people just love to whine about things...
>
>cheers... Jacob
Ok... either my ISP is dropping messages, or no one still has mentioned
andrew bowman
stupid, I cannot believe that you people are so shallow as to talk shit
about the CGE for no REAL reasons, basically you have already hurt this
event and the newsgroup A LOT, if you want to ruin this scene over
stupid shit, then we all might as well start collecting beanie babies, I
am disappointed that you people cannot understand how these thing
happen, if you could only understand that promoting ANY event will have
a lot of problems NO MATTER WHO IS RUNNING THE SHOW. I really don't
care what you think about me, because I have been promoting punk shows
for years and I can understand that things happen.
BOTTOM LINE the CGE is about friggin video games! that is reason enough
to go.
Andrew
(Bring back the unity from hell!!!)
Glenn Saunders
<in...@cgexpo.com> wrote:
>Leonard,
>
> Well its good to see at least someone involved with the CGE as a guest
>understands that when situations arrise such as this, people have to pull out of
>the event and not associate themselves if there is potentially bad issues
>associated. Thank you for your supporting comment and understanding.
>
>
>Curt
First off, Curt, you are sending this email as in...@cgexpo.com. Are
you officially part of the CG Expo organizing team? If so, how could
you possibly bail on them?
If you aren't, you probably shouldn't still be using this Email
account. It really seems strange to see an anti-CGExpo post coming
from "in...@cgexpo.com".
As for the show itself, all that the public has been told are
GENERALITIES. "Questionable activities". "bad issues". These are
NOT sufficient grounds to pull out of a convention that otherwise has
an A-list of guests and events.
If the sins of the CG Expo staff were officially enumerated and
verified, and were relevant to the exhibitor or guest, that's a
different story, but until then all we've seen is a lot of unproven
allegations and a reluctance on either side to explain the core of the
problem.
Mylar
>are being duped at the expense of many :((
Jerry,
Just the other day it sounded like you were protecting the CGE promoters,
now it sounds like you are changing positions, could this be true, or did I
misunderstand your latest post?
I REALLY think that the CGE '99 Organizers need to make a formal statement.
I thank Lee Seitz for making his initial post about Nolan not attending. If
it would not have been for that post, I too would still have plans on
attending. I have nothing against Keita or the other CGE '99 organizers, but
I do feel that without a formal announcement that they are "Silently"
promoting people that are no longer going to be endorsing/attending CGE '99.
Something is definitely up and I think that all Classic Gamers especially
those already committed to attending the show need to be told what is going
on. Is this too much to ask?
Mylar
my...@sprynet.com
Jerry Jessop <jjes...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3761fe8c.10497086@news...
>
> Glenn,
>
> Your a pretty smart guy, unfortunately looks like you tipped a few
> peoples hands here. I was planning on waiting till next week to blow
> this wide open.There is MUCH MORE of this documented that will all
> come out. A few of us have been sitting back tonight watching the
> forged post's and emails fly....and logging and printing out each one.
>
> I could go on and on about this, but let me just say one thing Glenn.
>
> We had a very long conversation on the phone today where I probably
> revealed more than I should. Do you now have your confirmation?
> While it's always great to have confirmations, it really saddens me
> more than anything in this case. Decent, innocent, honorable people
> are being duped at the expense of many :((
>
> Jerry
scottith
>>First off, Curt, you are sending this email as in...@cgexpo.com. Are
you officially part of the CG Expo organizing team? If so, how could
you possibly bail on them?
If you aren't, you probably shouldn't still be using this Email
account. It really seems strange to see an anti-CGExpo post coming
from "in...@cgexpo.com".
>>
Curt is NOT part of the CG Expo staff. As for him using that email address
to post his reasons for quitting the event, I think you can read between
the lines.....
There will be *plenty* of rare items on display, regardless of Curt's lack
of attendance, not to mention dozens of legends from the "golden age of
video games"...
Glenn Saunders
Here is the Curt Vendel apology letter (at the end of my commentary).
What is missing from this letter is Curt's take on why Nolan pulled
out of the show, but it can be inferred that although Curt did the
legwork in getting Nolan to attend, when the show did not progress the
way Curt wanted it do, he was also responsible for spoiling the Nolan
arrangements when they really had no reason to be spoiled if only Curt
had remained more upbeat and positive about the show, as clearly Nolan
and Loni were taking their queues from Curt (which in and of itself
was a mistake since Curt is not an official CGExpo promoter).
[On the flipside, I may have been at least partly responsible for some
of the current guest-list at CG Expo, but my role was purely as an
ice-breaker in raising awareness and a gentle encouragement to my
contacts-- and passing contact information to CG Expo for followup. I
believe that's the way it should be done.]
None of the promoters that I know of have ulterior motives other than
putting on the show, and thus are best qualified to plan it out in an
impartial manner, but Curt has his presentation to be concerned about,
and how he can somehow capitalize on his relationship with Nolan. So
when Curt got fed up over the booth situation and wanted to bail, he
took Nolan with him in the process. That's how I read it according to
the information as presented.
More specifically:
If Curt had been doing his job to help, and really felt that Nolan
actually appearing required additional manpower to handle logistics,
he should have clearly stated that and worked WITH the promoters to
see it through to the end. Not that _Curt_ should "bring in
professionals" to help, but to find some more trusted volunteers who
can be given the authority and the purse-strings to double for Keita
and John in making the necessary travel and lodging arrangements for
guests, covering for understandable situations when they are otherwise
unreachable. As it occured, however, Nolan bailing out came
unexpectedly, right after Nolan himself had appeared at a strategy
meeting and was pumped up about the show (remember the smiling face in
the picture on the CG Expo site?). This to me speaks towards an
"outside force" convincing Nolan's camp to turn around and bail. That
Curt has been forging slanderous Emails only reinforces the theory
that he defected and deliberately botched the arrangements--that Curt
saw Nolan as the crown jewel in his museum that he was bringing to the
show, and since he decided he didn't want to attend, he didn't want to
see Nolan still go.
[Had Curt simply broken the ice with Nolan's camp and passed it onto a
promoter who did not have anything else at stake other than making the
show a success, then perhaps this could have been avoided. But I can
understand it if Keita and John were overwhelmed, and welcomed Curt's
offer to help.]
Anyway, I find it very egocentric for Curt to apologize over HIM not
attending, but to not take any responsibility for NOLAN not attending,
when in the end I think far more people will be missing Nolan than
Curt.
As for Curt saying he's now working FOR Nolan Bushnell, this makes me
wonder whether he's taken it upon himself to decide how and when Nolan
will make appearances at classic gaming expos, and if that's the case,
in all possible deference to Nolan, then Curt really has won himself
the most valuable Atari collectible out there. I certainly hope
that's not the case.
I really don't want to see these conventions become simply a crass
money-making machine and the guests simply a commodity that people
fight over and get jealous over. I don't think it's good for the fans
or the celebrity guests.
= = =
As for Curt and his "exhibit", regardless of the apparent lack of
exhibitors to date at CGExpo 99, I think it has grown far too large
for him to be "just an exhibitor" at a show. I'm sure this has
already crossed his mind, but I think he should either start his own
museum or develop his own convention revolving around the presentation
of his artefacts. Until then, he must respect the judgement of the
promoters he's working with regarding his booth and not try to
strong-arm them into doing what he wants. It's the Classic Gaming
Expo, not the Curt Gaming Expo.
>>>
June 12, 1999 Update - CGE
Hi everyone. Ok, I have received numerous emails asking why
I have dropped the AHS out of the Classic Gaming Expo this year and as
much as I haven't wanted to go into particulars, I will tell everyone
a few things that happened behind the scenes that I'm responsible for
and have apologized to the CGE staff for when I realized I was wrong.
Back after WOA98' having found out that Nolan would not attend
because of a HUGE issue with one of the promoters of the show who is
NOT associated now with CGE99' I was in contact with Nolan through
Loni Reeder and after several months of talking and finding out what
had happened, I made efforts to smooth out and explain to her and
Nolan about John and Keita and how these guys are true gaming
enthusiasts, some of the best on the net for that matter and they hold
Nolan is very high regard. Well after sometime I convinced her to
start conversations with Keita and consider attending the CGE99'
Success was made, he was signed and committed to the event.
Early in 1999 I was invited out to John's house and along with
Keita, reviewed the basic idea's surrounding CGE99, I was shown the
hotel layout, brochures, we discussed issues, we exchanged idea's.
Everything was great. Then I decided it was time to start making
preparings for my new booth for the new show, last year I had two
booths, this years show would be much larger, grander and more
spectacular so I wanted to do a 4 booth show and as an exhibitor I
should have a right to rent out whatever space my budget could afford,
so I made the request (well to be honest, it was more like a demand, I
said I need "x" amount of space, if I can't have it, I might not be
able to attend). I didn't hear anything for a while, then Sean Kelly
emailed me back telling me that I couldn't have that kind of space
because they weren't sure they'd have enough with all of the vendors,
all they could promise was one booth. I felt insulted to say the
least and felt, well come on, at least 2 booths, but was told again
that it would be one booth for sure, hopefully two booths near the
show starting if available. This was not good, I couldn't work in
that space, I was already working on the booth being built (my fault
for starting it too early, but I never expected to be stonewalled on
space, its a show, exhibitors should get what they want, they are the
ones paying for it). Well the booth had to be redone to accomodate 2
spots. Add to this I was told not to go overboard on the Atari thing
since other Non-Atari guests would be there and they wanted to
maintain a balance of what was at the show, however I represent the
Atari Historical Society, what was I supposed to do have a dancing
bear and a bearded lady in the booth.
Meanwhile it had been almost 2 months, silence, nothing new on
the site, no vendors, no updates, the site was dead. I was worrying
that the show might not even take place. I spoke with Jerry Jessop
who informed me that the guys were busy, and hadn't had a chance to do
much updating, also their main concern at the time was securing guests
and that vendors hadn't been addressed much yet, so I told him about
some sites I found and possible vendors and that I'd start contacting
them and see if they were interested. Apparently Jerry thought the
idea good, but not John/Keita as this was told to me as being meddling
and that I was the one saying how the show needed professionalism and
that I was doing exactly what they didn't want to do which was double
contact potential vendors, so I thought I was doing right by trying to
secure vendors, but was wrong and made the CGE look bad to potential
vendors. However I was relaying all emails I sent to vendors to John
Hardie and all responses from Vendors to John Hardie, I was even
emailing as in...@cgexpo.com so they would directly contact the site,
but again I didn't ask permission to do that, so I was asked to stop
contacting everyone immediately and to stay out of anything to do with
the event and to no longer represent myself as a member of the CGE.
So far you may not see much bad, however it was bad, wrong and
not my place, and here is something that I was totally out of line
about; I emailed Jerry Jessop and Don Thomas (at the time, consultants
for the show but who have now asked to be removed from the site as
consultants) saying that no emails are being answered, the site hasn't
been updated in many weeks, I had received several emails from people
asking if I knew what was up and also Nolan's contact called me and
asked what was going on as her emails had gone unanswered for quite
some time and she needed to check on hotel and airfare which was being
given to Nolan for comming to the event and she wanted to make sure
everything had been arranged so that Nolans schedule was left open for
the event. So I called John's answering machine frantically, leaving
the tele# to call Nolan's contact that noone has responded and that
Nolan may not attend since noone is getting back and the site seemed
dead, also told them that potential attendee's were emailing me as
well asking what was up with the site. Well, apparently John called
Nolans contact three times that day to smooth things out and he did.
His explaination was he got hit with the CIH virus which damaged his
system, but apparently never made attempts to have someone else pick
up his mail for him to keep tabs on things for the amount of time he
system was down which was a bad move on his part (in my opinion).
So in a bold move of stupidity I emailed Don Thomas and Jerry Jessop
telling them what was up, that they should either take over the show
and run it themselves or I could take it over, bring in a few project
managers I know and get things back in shape. Needless to say, as
noble an idea as I thought that was when I sent the email, it was more
like a digitally encoded mime of a Slap in the Face which I was
totally out of line on. Also added to this, that since I still wanted
larger space and to be able to also provide ample room for a large
gathering, I even went outside of the convention area and called the
hotel to see if I could rent out a 2500 sq ft room next to the show
and set-up the displays, coin-ops and such in their, I called to see
if room was available and it was, then I emailed the CGE staff for
permission and was turned down as the room was going to be used for
storage, planning and meetings. Although the set-up in the room
would have been a monster and it would have added an incredible amount
to the show, I think it was more that it would have added to me
selfishness as well.
So now leading up to the show, some issues arose regarding
guests, sponsors and exhibitors which I hope the one individual
responsible will be man enough to make his own apology publicly to
everyone, this combined with my own mistakes and that fact that John
Hardie and I have had some personal issues with one another over the
years I decided that it best I bow out of the show so that with me out
they have one less thing to worry about on their hands ontop of the
show itself and dealing with some of the guests departures and such.
So you see, its more about my stupid mistakes, me ragging on the guys
to keep the whole thing professional, meanwhile I was making HUGE
mistakes and making them look unprofessional and taking things too far
that has lead me to pull out of the show, I feel myself that I
personally have behaved in a childish way on certain things and I
don't deserve to be a party to the event this year. So this is my
side, my mistakes and my apology to everyone that I made the show a
rougher job to put together for the CGE Staff and because of it I have
hurt the more important people in this whole show... the attendees.
So to the CGE Staff again, I apologize.
Again, all I can say is I hope that the other party will be
man enough to come forward, explain his mistakes and errors, put it on
the table and apologize. To everyone else who is attending the
show, I truly apologize for my childishness and selfishness. I am
supposed to be here to be a part or a link in the bigger picture, the
Classic Gaming Community, to offer assistance and support, not to let
childishness hurt the community. I've let my pushy ways and personal
agenda get in the way of what is a spectacular event in the making and
I'm sorry I've let everyone down.
Respectfully,
Curt Vendel
<<<
Bojay1997
>exhibitors to date at CGExpo 99, I think it has grown far too large
>for him to be "just an exhibitor" at a show.
Glenn,
You raise a good point here. Over the past few months I have been seeing quite
a few references to Curt and his collection in free newspapers and other
sources out here on the West Coast. I've visited his site many times and find
it impressive and informative. Because I work part time in the computer media
and have worked in the interactive entertainment industry as well as the
regular (if there is such a thing) television industry and continue to do so
from time to time, I have come across more and more former employees of not
only Atari, but other California-based videogame companies through my work. A
lot of them have artifacts from their days at these companies(I think
prototypes were stolen by many of these folks as compensation for being laid
off :) ) and after finding out I collect the stuff (I have a small display in
my office) they often ask me if there is anyone out there running a museum for
this stuff. For the last year my response has always been, "no, not really".
In my mind, Curt's collection and the Atari HQ collection, and even Videotopia
are no more than private collections run by people who want to have all the
marbles. Usually, I tell these people about Ebay and how collecting has
changed and encourage them to either hold on to the stuff until the day that
someone actually opens a real museum(meaning a non-profit physical location
with a real board of directors and a foundation that is restricted from selling
donations and agrees to return the items to the original owner in the event the
museum closes) or I offer to connect them with a local computer museum that
will at least store the items for them safely.
After this most recent debacle, my resolve has been hardened to the point where
I am going to actively look into the feasibility of partnering with some other
collectors as well as large companies in the industry to establish a museum at
some point in the Silicon Valley. If it takes 20 years than so be it, but
having these items( especially one of a kind items)in the hands of individual
collectors makes no sense at all. There are many rare items that I have
accumulated myself, but in the end I would rather that people be able to enjoy
the items in a legitimate museum instead of having them in a box or even on a
web page somewhere.
That's just how I feel and this whole CGE fiasco has made it clear to me that
the people who are allegedly the "leaders" in the collectors community don't
deserve all the attention or rare items that have been shuffled their way in
the hopes that they will preserve this rich heritage.
Bojay
Glenn Saunders
>After this most recent debacle, my resolve has been hardened to the point where
>I am going to actively look into the feasibility of partnering with some other
>collectors as well as large companies in the industry to establish a museum at
>some point in the Silicon Valley.
At one point in time mummies were being ground up into medicinal
powders. Eventually they were seen as the true historical relics that
they are. The same has happened in Atari memorobilia. The reason all
this stuff is all spread out is because it was all considered
worthless at one time and was given away or salvaged out of a dumpster
someplace. Now you have Egypt calling for the retrieval of many of
its national treasures. I can see a similar need for a museum, and
the likely investors would be Atari Games (WMS) and Hasbro
Interactive.
For two companies that make quite a bit of money on their legacy
(Gauntlet Legends, Centipede, etc...) they should spend some of it to
preserve the originals.
So I think this would be an extremely noble and worthwhile endeavor,
especially if it also means a central _digital_ museum in which ROM
archives are kept for historical-preservation reasons. Too many
unreleased ROMs are circulated within "closed circles" which is
unfair.
I myself have artefacts which I have already scanned in and would
gladly donate to such a museum where they can be better protected from
the elements.
So if you are serious, I'd love to be a part of it.