TECH: Williams Stargate Problems
scottpin
I have a Williams Stargate that isn't working and I am hoping with some
help from the group I can get it going. I have done alot of research
on the internet and this newsgroup to find troubleshooting information.
First I will describe what the game is doing and then I will tell what
I have done to try to fix it.
The game powers up and I get high voltage to the monitor but all I get
on the screen is various patterns of vertical stripes. Usually a dozen
or so lines, somtimes only a few with a stable picture so I think the
vertical and horizontal sync is working. Sometimes it looks like the
"rug pattern" is behind the vertical bars. I have several pictures of
the screens on my webpage at http://www.lemarscomm.net/~timpers The
single digit display on the ROM board usually doesn't show anything but
sometimes flashes random characters. If I push the reset button on the
CPU board it doesn't seem to do anything. The sound board goes through
several normal game sounds when the test button on the board is pushed
and will make random sounds if I let the game set for awhile.
Here is what I have tried to do to get it working.
1. Re-soldered the connections on the Power Supply. Many had cold
solder joints.
2. Checked the voltages at the RAM chips. Results +11.9, -5.06, and
+4.75VDC
3. Replaced 6809 chip on CPU.
4. Tried two different monitors with no change in picture.
5. New batteries installed.
6. Unplugged and reconnected all connectors.
None of these seemed to make any difference. I have read that 74153
chip can cause problems but haven't replaced it. I also read a lot
about the 4116 RAM chips and would like to try replace these with new
4116's or modify the board to accept 4164's if that is the problem.
I have a logic probe and the schematic and some electronic experience
if someone could tell me what to look for.
Thanks for any help or suggestions.
Scott
Derek Stutsman
1. That +5 rail is a little low. Have you rebuilt the power supply?
2. Watch the LED during bootup...does it give you a numeric failure
code? This will indicate a bad ram, etc.
I'll bet you the low voltage is your only problem though.
D
BrentRadio
the crap that I collect.
Please don't take this as a slam, just an observation.
We're all crazy as all of this stuff will survive us.
Brent
Andre
all RAM chips (at this point I would stick with the 4116, you don't need to
introduce any new problems in case you install the kit wrong). Next I would
look at the ribbon cable of the ROM board. As the game is on try moving the
40 pin ribbon cable on the ROM board and watch the screen for any changes.
I would not guess it to be the 74153, you usually get different looking
screen pattern. After that is done I would start looking at some signals on
the board like MUX, WE and WR lines and the address and data lines.
One other thing, you only need the CPU and ROM board to boot up the game.
To eliminate any other boards disconnect your I/O and sound board from any
other board.
--
Andre
www.arcadesolution.com
"scottpin" <tim...@lemarscomm.net> wrote in message
news:1130822760.4...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Sean Riddle
Also try carefully removing and reseating ROM 12, at location 7A on the
ROM board. Use a small flat-blade screwdriver to get under the chip,
not under the socket, and work the pins out evenly from both ends.
Make sure to reinsert it in the correct direction, and be sure that all
the legs go into the socket.
Did the game used to work, or did you get it like this? Can you see if
anyone previously did any "surgery" to the boards? If so, that's a
good place to start looking.
Sean
lens...@hotmail.com
~eric
scottpin
there is no change to the display. The LED display doesn't ever show
anything that makes sense and usually doesn't do anything. I never saw
this game working. When I got it there wasn't a monitor in it but all
the boards were there. The boards don't look like they have ever been
messed with. I think I am going to get a power supply rebuild kit and
also replace all the 4116's with new 4116's like Andre suggested.
Does anyone know where to find a ROM check sum list for all the ROM's?
I have a programmer and could check the ROM's to see if the are right.
I bought this game to use as a MAME cabinet but think it would much
cooler to get back working as original. I didn't play this game much
back in the "day" but did play Defender alot.
Scott
lens...@hotmail.com
still be doing that after the power supply is rebuilt.
~eric
HobbyRoms.Com
scottpin wrote:
>
> Does anyone know where to find a ROM check sum list for all the ROM's?
Check your mail.
I've sent you the Stargate MAME images.
Cheers,
Steph
www.HobbyRoms.com
scottpin
the #10 and #12 ROM's were reversed. I put them back in the correct
sockets and was really hoping this would make a difference but the game
responded just like it always does. I think I am going to try burn 3
new ROM's at a time and see what kind of results I get.
Does anyone know how I can prove if the problem is in the ROM board or
the CPU board? That would sure help troubleshoot the game.
Scott
docfr...@hotmail.com
sending the images
Sean Riddle
Are you sure they were reversed? 10 and 12 are swapped as compared to
1 & 3, 4 & 6, and 7 & 9. 12 should be in location 7A. The best way to
see if it is the ROM or CPU board is to swap the ROM board, of course.
Sean
Sean Riddle
(ROM 12), but others won't. I've been meaning to put some Williams
diagnostics into a single ROM (4K bytes), but I haven't yet. So I just
chopped up my multigame menu code and made this:
http://members.cox.net/seanriddle/TESTROM.BIN (sorry, couldn't figure
out how to create a link in Google Groups).
This code will work on Stargate on up, and will work on Defender if the
watchdog is disabled. Burn it into a 2732 and put it into the ROM 12
socket. When you power up, the game will fill the screen with
different colors, then pause at my menu title screen. Hit one of the
start buttons to start over. The LED will be set to different #s as
the code runs.
I'll work on some more meaningful diagnostics, but this may help
troubleshooting in the meantime.
Sean
spo...@gmail.com
fix this as I sometimes get weird stuff happening to mine.
drew@bunkercade
scottpin
out my EPROM programmer and tried to learn how to use it again. Thanks
for the testrom.bin file Sean. I first tried to burn the testrom but
couldn't get it onto a chip. I'm probably doing something wrong. I
then tried to burn one of the ROM files that Steph sent me (thanks
Steph) with no luck either. I then took one of the ROM chips from the
game board and copied it to a file on my computer and then burned it to
a blank EPROM chip and that worked fine. After that I decided to do a
check sum on all 12 ROM chips and below are the results.
1 - 390A
2 - F8B6
3 - Address Short
4 - 7670
5 - Address Short
6 - E45C
7 - AA5C
8 - 0978
9 - 0BAA
10 - 942E
11 - Address Short
12 - Address Short
It looks like I have 4 bad ROMS. If I could figure how to program my
blank EPROM's I that might get the game working. I think I will get in
touch with Steph at HobbyRoms and see if he can burn them for me. I'm
still a little confused on the correct placement of the chips. My
schematic shows them in these positions.
Board Location Chip Number
7A 12
7C 11
7E 10
6A 9
6C 8
6E 7
5A 6
5C 5
5E 4
4A 3
4C 2
4E 1
Can some verify if this is correct? As I said in an earlier post my 10
and 12 were switched with each other. I think Sean said they are
opposite of 1,3 and 4,6 and 7,9 but ROM 12 should be in 7A so this
confuses me.
Anyway I can't give up on this now.
Scott
Derek Stutsman
guess it's too late for that now...
Sean Riddle
Oops! Sorry, that's what I get for drinking and posting :) The later
games have ROMs 10 and 12 swapped, but Stargate doesn't. Sorry to
confuse you even more.
Maybe you need to tell the EPROM burner that the files are binary
files, not Intel or Motorola format?
Sean
scottpin
the wrong sockets when I got the game then. For some reason I can't
get my burner to work with binary files, it says unknown file format.
I'm going to have Steph at HobbyRoms burn my chips and in the mean time
try get by burner working. I'll post the results the new ROM's have on
the game.
Scott
Sean Riddle
Try these: http://members.cox.net/testrom.hex and
http://members.cox.net/testrom.s1 These are the same data as
TESTROM.BIN, but the first one is in Intel Hex format and the second is
in Motorola S1 format. If one of these works let me know and I can
send you your bad Stargate ROM files in the same format for you to
burn.
Maybe your burner wants a different file extension on the binary files?
What make is the burner?
Just a thought- that is a Stargate ROM board, right, not a Robotron or
Joust with Stargate ROMs? It shouldn't have the 2 special chips. It
would still work, but the 10 and 12 ROMs would need to be swapped to
the way they were.
Sean
Sean Riddle
http://members.cox.net/seanriddle/testrom.hex
http://members.cox.net/seanriddle/testrom.s1
Sean
Steve Lewinsky
Boards?
Can you repost the info on using it?
"scottpin" <tim...@lemarscomm.net> wrote in message
news:1131111701.5...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Sean Riddle
What's out there now is not yet a diagnostics for Williams boards, it's
just a single ROM that fills memory with different values so you see
colors change on the monitor. It also sets the LEDs to different #s.
Finally, it draws a picture on the screen and waits for you to hit one
of the start buttons. The goal was to have a single ROM for Scott to
test in his ROM board.
What I'd like this to evolve into is a more generally useful
diagnostics tool: things like RAM test, CPU test, NVRAM test, blitter
test, button test, ROM checksummer, etc. I've been thinking how I can
determine if the CPU board is Defender, Bubbles, Sinistar or other, if
Special Chips 1 or 2 are present, if the watchdog is enabled or
disabled, etc.
Sean
Steve Lewinsky
project. Sounds interesting.
So if I was to use this rom for color generation. what rom socket do I put
it in?
"Sean Riddle" <seanr...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1131253728.2...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Arcadeforever
thanks!!!
--
AF
"Steve Lewinsky" <coi...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:Ybqdnb8eQ_fFnvPe...@rogers.com...
Brien King
the problems it finds for the common problems?
Such as "Fire Button Stuck ON... check LS74xxx at Location X, Y and Z" or
something like that? or would that be more of a waste of time? Anything to
help speed up repairs :-) I have about 17 CPU boards right now that need
fixing. A lot with stuck inputs, RAM errors, and some video problems.
BTW: Thanks for all the great info on your site!
Brien King
http://www.arcaderestoration.com
"Sean Riddle" <seanr...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1131253728.2...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Arcadeforever
--
AF
"Arcadeforever" <ve3...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:yYKdnb9mooD...@giganews.com...
Sean Riddle
It goes into the Fxxx socket, which is ROM 12 on all the games except
Defender, where it's ROM 3, and Sinistar, where it's ROM 11. You can
leave all the other ROMs in place. In the next version it will
checksum them and tell you what it thinks they are.
Sean
Sean Riddle
testrom.hex is Intel hex format, testrom.s1 is Motorola S1 format.
Sean
Sean Riddle
I think the list of solutions would be better in a doc that would come
with the ROM. I'd like to get everything crammed into 1 ROM so that
people won't have to pull out several chips to test, so that would
limit the number of solutions I could display. I also don't do a lot
of board repairs, so I hope users will post what they get from the
diagnostics in their repair logs along with what they did to fix it.
Sean
Kirk S.
From my experience, the PIA on the input widget board and ROM boards cause
more input errors than anything I've seen. I've also seen some really odd
displays from bad shift registers (74166 Others/74165 Defender). A bad
address multiplexor (74153) will cause a really busted up rug and a 1-3-1
error. Don't forget the address generators (74161/9316) or the blanking
circuit as culprits. As a last resort on Ram errors, the bank buffers
(74LS373/374s) can also cause some grief. I had two Bubbles CPU boards that
got random 1-3-1 errors until I replaced all the data buffers. Check the
clock and crystal area for battery damage, too.
An old HP 10529A logic comparator is really handy on the bank select and
write enables although a logic probe will show when things are simply
dead...
In some cases, you can substitute LS/ALS/HCT for the components. Anything
related to memory addressing or bank control must have the drive capacity of
standard TTL. A 74LS153 burns out immediately as does a 74LS161.
A trick I learned while working on Williams Pinball Driver boards is to
place the + lead of my multimeter on the ground plane of the board in
question, set the meter to the diode setting and probe the pins with the -
lead. You should see pretty normal diode voltage drops on most of the logic
pins. Since TTL typically shorts, look for any really low or really high
readings. It's helped me quickly locate bad TTL. A logic probe on pin 14
of the 4116 Rams also will pretty quickly show any dead 4116 Rams on
partially working boards.
If the board won't boot at all; I usually suspect the CMOS Ram and 74153
multiplexors. If they short out, they can pull the address lines down and
prevent the CPU from accessing the game program. I pull the 4116 Ram out
first so any dead ones can't clog the data buss.
Good luck!
Yeah, Sean has lots of good info on his site...
Kirk S.
"Brien King" <spamm...@arcaderestoration.com> wrote in message
news:RIObf.18948$bo.2269@fed1read01...
Brien King
resources :-)
Brien King
"Sean Riddle" <seanr...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1131404389.3...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Brien King
Thanks for the tips. The biggest problem right now is the time to sit down
and start going through everything. I'm 99.999999% sure that it's the CPU
boards and not the Input Widget or ROM board since I tested all the CPU
boards in the same cabinet and some have no input problems at all. As for
the RAM errors, I would like to switch all the ram to 4164 (hope that's the
right number) and get away from the 4116's all together.
I do have a Logic Probe, and I just picked up an Oscilliscope from John
Butler (Thanks John!), so hopefully between those two and my Multi-Meter I
can fix these boards (and not make them worse). This is the fun part for
me. Learning how to do all of this.
Now all I need to do is find a Williams Adapter for my Univid 1000 or make
one... Although I do have a JAMMA harness so I might just build a Williams
to JAMMA adapater.
All I need now is 25 hours in day and I'll be set!
Brien King
"Kirk S." <cray...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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