Upcoming Titles from 3DO forum AOL
Howard I Heisler
interesting are GEX and Slam and Jam '95? Maybe the secret titles
will perk my interest...
Kenneth Berger
how their spelled exactly.) They don't appear on the upcoming release list.
I've been waiting a long time for a real RPG on the 3-Do. Any info would
be appreciated, thanks.
Tom Kim
I have been assuming that Slam and Jam '95 was the secret title which was
released. Has anyone seen any screen shots of it? I must admit that I
wish that it had a license to use real player names, but with the current
paucity of sports games, I'll take what I can get.
Artrocity!
The Coven Vivid Interactive
Digital Dreamware Virgin Interactive
Flashback: the Quest for Identity US Gold
Immercenary Electronic Arts
Seal of the Pharaoh Panasonic Software
Slopestyle L3 Interactive
March
Dirt Racer Elite
Endless Vivid Interactive
Iron Angel of the Apocalypse Synergy
Quarantine Gametek
Rise of the Robots Absolute Entertainment
Kingdom: the Far Reaches Interplay
Lemmings Chronicles Psygnosis Ltd.
Mindteaser Vivid Interactive
MYST Panasonic Software
Winner Take All Vivid Interactive
April
After Shock Elite Action
Creature Shock Virgin Interactive
The 11th Hour: Sequel to 7th Guest Virgin Interactive
Flying Nightmares Domark Software
GEX Crystal Dynamics
Hell Gametek
ICEBREAKER Magnet Interactive
Panzer General SSI Simulation
Slam +n Jam +95 Crystal Dynamics
Space Ace ReadySoft
Space Hulk Electronic Arts
Wing Commander III: Origin Systems
May
Alone in the Dark II Interplay
Braindead 13 Readysoft
Cyber War Sales Curve
The Daedalus Encounter Panasonic Software
Dragon Virgin Interactive
Planet Vegas VideoactVCartoons
Space Pirates American Laser Games
Tigernauts... Beyond the Star VideoactV
June
Ballz PF Magic
BC Racer US Gold
BladeForce Studio 3DO
Cadillacs & Dinosaurs Rocket Science
The D Warp
Discworld Psygnosis
Dragon Lore Mindscape
Firewolves Goldstar Software
Killing Time Studio 3DO
Loadstar: the Legend of Tully Bodine Rocket Science
Passion Files Electric Dreams
The Perfect General JC Research
PO+ed Any Channel
Psychic Detective Electronic Arts
The Real Line L3 Interactive
Sesame Street: Letters Electronic Arts
World Cup Soccer Coconuts
Scott A. Krotz
Jim Coyle <dah...@planetx.bloomu.edu> wrote:
>
>On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Artrocity! wrote:
>
>> April
>>
>> GEX Crystal Dynamics
>
>I'm not tired of the GEX release date getting pushed back.
>
>In fact, i'm so pissed of at Crystal Dynamics, that I am not going to BUY
>the game now, no matter how GOOD it is! I know just one person won't
>make a difference, but it will make me feel better.
>
>These game developers screw with our minds, and decieve us in many
>different ways. I think its about time they learn the fact that they
>need to please us, the customers, to be succesful.
>
>Its ashame, GEX looks AWESOME! If it is released in March, I won't be
>made, but this latest posting says APRIL!
>
>Sheesh!
So, if a game is late, people get mad.
If a game is on time, but has bugs or gameplay quirks, people get mad.
If developers dont announce any release dates, people get mad.
Anyone begin to see the no-win scenario developers face? Anyone?
I mean, come on.. CD isnt delaying the damn game on purpose! They're not
playing with anyones minds, theyre just trying to put out the best product
possible. Delays and software development go hand in hand.
Scott
Enrique Conty
> Is it just me or does it seem like the only two titles that are
>interesting are GEX and Slam and Jam '95?
It's just you.
--
E n r i q u e C o n t y
"I want to Walk the Net, like Kane in Kung Fu" - Net.Fiction
co...@cig.mot.com
Patrick B. Moynihan
<dah...@planetx.bloomu.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Artrocity! wrote:
> In fact, i'm so pissed of at Crystal Dynamics, that I am not going to BUY
> the game now, no matter how GOOD it is! I know just one person won't
> make a difference, but it will make me feel better.
>
> These game developers screw with our minds, and decieve us in many
> different ways. I think its about time they learn the fact that they
> need to please us, the customers, to be succesful.
Those game programmers are working their butts off just so you can sit at
home on your couch and have a pleasant weekend or evening playing games.
Every day, all day long they are in the office working at their computers
struggling to make the game the best that it can be. I can't belive you
are bitching.
--
Patrick Moynihan / Digital Image Production / Macintosh Programmer
Fahrenheit 451 / Application Arts, Inc. / Seattle, WA
sen...@halcyon.com http://www.halcyon.com/senator/
PGP Encryption Public Key Block available upon request.
Jim Coyle
On Fri, 3 Mar 1995 son...@lexmark.com wrote:
> It's alot less wear and tear on the expectations to expect
> products when you see them in the store.
No kidding.
Sometimes I think that maybe I shouldn't read this newsgroup. That way,
I will never know about any upcomming titles and their release dates!
I'll just know when I take a trip to the local Software Etc.
Jim Coyle
On Fri, 3 Mar 1995, Dave Waller wrote:
> If GEX is a great game, you should buy it because you will have fun with it!
> Take out your frustrations just as you have here -- by slamming CD on the
> net. It's silly to exact punishment on yourself over this!
>
> (I'll bet he ends up buying they game anyway :-))
I bet I will too! :)
Jim Coyle
On 3 Mar 1995, Scott A. Krotz wrote:
> So, if a game is late, people get mad.
> If a game is on time, but has bugs or gameplay quirks, people get mad.
> If developers dont announce any release dates, people get mad.
>
> Anyone begin to see the no-win scenario developers face? Anyone?
Its not a no-win scenario. The game developers should NOT annouce a game
with a release date and then not follow through with it. A release date
should ONLY be annouced when the game is READY. Being late by a few
weeks, or maybe a month isn't bad, but come on here! Gex was due out
about 4-5 months ago.
> I mean, come on.. CD isnt delaying the damn game on purpose! They're not
> playing with anyones minds, theyre just trying to put out the best product
> possible. Delays and software development go hand in hand.
Yes, I agree.
Jim Coyle
On 4 Mar 1995, Erin A Fritz wrote:
> Everyone that is, except for the developers and marketing people in the
> game companies. You see what bothers me is when a date is given that
> even the company knows is just wishful thinking. An announcement of a
> game like GEX for Xmas back in September of 94 is an awesome marketing
> gimmic to get customers aware of the name Crystal Dynamics. But even
>
> If I can figure this out then why can't we get more realistic dates
> from the developers? That is what I am pissed off about. Not the
> cleaning up of bugs.
Exactly, Erin.
I was the original author of that message, and we agree.
I understand that bugs need to be worked on, but Gex was due to be
released according to CD back then, about 5-6 months ago! Why annouce
the date if there is NO chance that Gex would be ready? Its all wishful
thinking. They play with our minds.
Jim.
Kujawa, Kraig J.
>Those game programmers are working their butts off just so you can sit at
>home on your couch and have a pleasant weekend or evening playing games.
>Every day, all day long they are in the office working at their computers
>struggling to make the game the best that it can be. I can't belive you
>are bitching.
>--
Those game programmers are getting paid to work their butts off, and consumers
PAY handsomely for thos games that we play to have a pleasant weekend.
-Kraig
Taci
>Jim Coyle (dah...@planetx.bloomu.edu) wrote:
>
>: I'm not tired of the GEX release date getting pushed back.
>
>: These game developers screw with our minds, and decieve us in many
>: need to please us, the customers, to be succesful.
>
>release date is pushed back? The way I look at it, if it ends up making
>the game better or quashes some serious bugs, then do it. I can wait. Of
>course, had Gex come out when scheduled to and had some glitches or bugs
>in it liks Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo did, then I'd bet good money
>you'd be one of the first to stand up and start bitching about it.
>
>The 3DO has a lot more room to work with in it's CD-ROM setup than what
>most Sega and SNES carts can hope to hold and it takes time to fill that
>space up with a great game and have it be error free. I commend CD's
>persistence to making Gex as close to perfect as they can manage.
>
>With whiny people like you complaining everytime a title is pushed back
>it's no WONDER that some companies are keeping some titles on a "Secret
>List" so they don't have to listen to people continuously bitch about
>how said company keeps pushing the release dates back in an attempt to
>produce a good product.
>
>Crystal Dynamics can take all the time they feel they need if the end
>product ends up being a killer-ap that might attract that many more
>people to the 3DO platform. I'll be waiting with money in hand once
>they're done.
>
The problem with pushing back release dates is that game consoles like
3DO lose blood for each delayed product. Unfortunately, software
development started to fall behind hardware improvements. New advanced
game systems like 3DO need killer games in order to have a large user
base, but at the same time game development cycle is too long enough
for the hardware specs which can be obsolete in two years. 3DO has
been around for 1.5 years, and its eye-popping features are not eye-popping
anymore considering new competent game systems like PSX.
Whining of course does not help, but one can see that 3DO already spent
its 1/4th of 1995 without having any good game. And worse is the fact that
people are not impressed anymore with 3DO as the system gets old.
Software sells hardware and I believe that large companies who have
both hardware and software support can bear this competing market.
Small software companies can not catch up with large projects or
very complex games, so they would be less reluctant to program for
complex game consoles. On the other hand, a dedicated software
department can purchase license for each well-known game from
the original developers and port into their game system. Of course,
only corporations like Sony can undertake such projects.
Taci
ma...@winternet.com
>
>On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Patrick B. Moynihan wrote:
>
>> Those game programmers are working their butts off just so you can sit at
>> home on your couch and have a pleasant weekend or evening playing games.
>> Every day, all day long they are in the office working at their computers
>> struggling to make the game the best that it can be. I can't belive you
>> are bitching.
>
>
>I'm bitching because these companies give release dates out when
>they KNOW for a FACT that there is NO chance what-so-ever of the game
>being released at that time. A release date for a game should not be
>released until the game is VERY close to being done.
>
>As I said for Gex - It was due for release in around September. What's the
>latest date for release? April. That's 7 months, pal. There is NO WAY
>that a company could be 7 months late if they were even CLOSE to being
>finished back in September - unless they trashed it and started over when
>they saw DKC! ;)
>
>Where's Quarentine? Where's WC III which had a Jan release date?
>Where's Space Ace? Where's the 6 games which were supposed to be released
>in Feb? Only two of them made it out. What happened with Road Rash, Mega
>Race, OWI, and MANY other games? This isn't only CD - its all game
>companies for all systems!
>
>I never said anything about the programmers not working hard -- I know
>they do, and I know that they must be very intelligent and dedicated to
>even produce ONE game!
>
>This isn't because I have something against CD. All companies are guilty
>of this. In fact, I give CD all the credit in the world. They produce
>some excellent quality games and without them, the 3DO might be dead.
>
>Arrrgh! That was a long message! And I ever trimmed off a few
>paragraphs! :) Sheesh! I guess I like to talk a lot! :)
Having worked in a development environment for 7+ years, I know for a fact that for
the most part companies will USUALLY be honest with the customer. Development plans
may call for a product to be done at a certain time, but quite often there are many
variables that push dates back. Employee turnover and unforseen stumbling blocks
are quite common.
Just because Crystal Dynamics didn't make the date, that doesn't mean they intentionally
mislead the consumer. Shit happens...
------------------------------------------------
Marv Gordon
WARP OS/2. Next best thing to an Amiga.
The opinions expressed here are all that matters....
------------------------------------------------
Jim Coyle
On 3 Mar 1995, CHolbrook wrote:
> RELAX! I think if you feel your mind is screwed up and your hurt deep
> down inside your taking this a little to seriously!
These game companies set release dates KNOWING they will not be able to
meet them. In this case, Gex was due about 6-7 months ago. Its all
wishful thinking.
Who said anything about hurting deep inside? Try reading what is said
instead of making your own personal deductions.
Jim Coyle
On 4 Mar 1995, Timothy McCaffrey wrote:
> Oh for crying out loud. Why does everyone start whining whenver a game's
> release date is pushed back? The way I look at it, if it ends up making
> the game better or quashes some serious bugs, then do it. I can wait. Of
If there are so many bugs in Gex that it is 7 months late, then why the
hell did they bother to set a date for 7 months ago?
> course, had Gex come out when scheduled to and had some glitches or bugs
> in it liks Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo did, then I'd bet good money
> you'd be one of the first to stand up and start bitching about it.
Are you a complete moron? I thought so. I said that I am TIRED of
companies setting release dates and then delaying them. Where the HELL
do you even get into anything about bugs in a program?
Jim Coyle
On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Trevor Powell wrote:
> I hear this arguement all the time, but I still don't understand it.. Are
> you suggesting that the company, for 'PR' reasons, says "our game will be
> out on X date" even though they know full well that the game won't be out
> then, and that they're going to incur the hatred of lots of gamers
> (especially those who pre-order)? It just doesn't make any sense at all
> to make that sort of assessment of what's going on.
Its not to make people hate them (althoug it often has that effect) its
to start hype about a game, and THAT often works as well.
> However, sometime shortly before Xmas, they conducted focus group testing,
> and discovered that most people found Gex's control to be somewhat
> difficult to grasp, so rather than release it then and get yelled at for
> the poor control (as I recall, a LOT of games were being flamed in that
> time period for having poor control).. So they put it off. My guess is
> that this whole delay has been for control reasons.. after all, they
> missed the Xmas 'crunch time' date, and insofar as sales are concerned, it
> doesn't make a whole lot of difference if they release it in February or
> March -- what'll make the difference is how the control handles.
You mean April, according to CD. Its been pushed back agian.
In any case, there is nothing wrong with the fact that they are improving
it. However, a message of some sort explaining the reason for it being 6
months late IS in order, I think.
They should have conducted the tests BEFORE they set a release date -
which is what the entire conversation is about.
Jim Coyle
On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Patrick B. Moynihan wrote:
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.950303011607.12021A-100000@planetx>, Jim Coyle
> > These game developers screw with our minds, and decieve us in many
> > different ways. I think its about time they learn the fact that they
> > need to please us, the customers, to be succesful.
>
> Those game programmers are working their butts off just so you can sit at
> home on your couch and have a pleasant weekend or evening playing games.
> Every day, all day long they are in the office working at their computers
> struggling to make the game the best that it can be. I can't belive you
> are bitching.
We are bitching because they give release dates when they know damn well
they cannot possbily live up to it. It has nothing to do with how hard
the programmers work. The programmers have nothing to do with the
conversation.
Gex is a half a year late. Its very annoying for people who ordered it
back before Xmas.
Jim Coyle
On 4 Mar 1995 st...@rosie.uh.edu wrote:
> >Those game programmers are working their butts off just so you can sit at
> >home on your couch and have a pleasant weekend or evening playing games.
> >Every day, all day long they are in the office working at their computers
> >struggling to make the game the best that it can be. I can't belive you
> >are bitching.
> Those game programmers are getting paid to work their butts off, and consumers
> PAY handsomely for thos games that we play to have a pleasant weekend.
Exactly. They are getting paid. Some people around here seem to think
they work hard to please us. Yeah right. They work hard to keep their
job and to make money, like everyone else in the world.
We pay a decent amount for a game. I don't mind that, but I DO mind when
someone pays for a game and about 4 months later, still has received it.
Jim Coyle
On 4 Mar 1995 ma...@winternet.com wrote:
> Having worked in a development environment for 7+ years, I know for a fact that for
> the most part companies will USUALLY be honest with the customer. Development plans
> may call for a product to be done at a certain time, but quite often there are many
> variables that push dates back. Employee turnover and unforseen stumbling blocks
> are quite common.
That all understandable. As you said - shit happens. I just wish they
wouldn't give release dates until the game is VERY near completion.
> Just because Crystal Dynamics didn't make the date, that doesn't mean they intentionally
> mislead the consumer. Shit happens...
Well, it surely must have been something major to make it half a year late.
I'm sure there were people who ordered it in November and still haven't
received it.
Jim Coyle
On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Chris Curry wrote:
> From the things that I've read on this game it seems pretty impressive
> and it appears that a lot of work is going into this title.
Very true. The original release date was like half a year ago! I hope
they have spent that time making it one HELL of a game! :)
> It also seems that this title is going to be Crystal Dynamics' pride and
> joy it seems likely that they are going to delay it and only release it
> when they feel it is "perfect" and are not going to release it with some
> missing parts or things that they *wished* that they had put in.........
> Like they had with Crash N Burn.
I have no problem with that. That's the way it SHOULD be. Unfortunetly,
I don't like the fact that is has been delayed for so long.
In a way, I am mostly pissed off because many companies have it listed in
their catalog, and have had it listed since November. The people that
placed orders back then must be REALLY annoyed. Its been quite a while
and no Gex!
> This game seems like it will *definately* be a Donkey Kong Country
> beater.
I hope so. I have a strange feeling that is why they didn't release it
in the first place!
> Of course its probably going to get trashed by EGM anyway so why worry
> about it :-)
Well, of course! Would you expect anything other than that from EGM? :)
Chris Curry
|>Just because Crystal Dynamics didn't make the date, that doesn't mean they intentionally
|>mislead the consumer. Shit happens...
I think that sums it up. Well said
Chris C
------------------------------------------------+
In order to understand one must learn how others
see the world and then learn how not to see the
world how one wants it be (S)
------------------------------------------------+
Chris Curry
Jim Coyle <dah...@planetx.bloomu.edu> wrote:
|>> Just because Crystal Dynamics didn't make the date, that doesn't mean they intentionally
|>> mislead the consumer. Shit happens...
|>
|>Well, it surely must have been something major to make it half a year late.
Not really, When you are working on something as intricate as programming a
game, something minor could happen that might delay it for weeks.
And when you are working on a game that is at this scale, then problems can
occur more easily.
|>I'm sure there were people who ordered it in November and still haven't
|>received it.
Hopefully it will be worth the wait.
Jim Coyle
On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Artrocity! wrote:
> April
>
> GEX Crystal Dynamics
I'm not tired of the GEX release date getting pushed back.
In fact, i'm so pissed of at Crystal Dynamics, that I am not going to BUY
the game now, no matter how GOOD it is! I know just one person won't
make a difference, but it will make me feel better.
These game developers screw with our minds, and decieve us in many
different ways. I think its about time they learn the fact that they
need to please us, the customers, to be succesful.
Its ashame, GEX looks AWESOME! If it is released in March, I won't be
Chris Curry
|>> It also seems that this title is going to be Crystal Dynamics' pride and
|>> joy it seems likely that they are going to delay it and only release it
|>> when they feel it is "perfect" and are not going to release it with some
|>> missing parts or things that they *wished* that they had put in.........
|>> Like they had with Crash N Burn.
|>
|>I have no problem with that. That's the way it SHOULD be. Unfortunetly,
|>I don't like the fact that is has been delayed for so long.
Better to spend a few months waiting than a couple years wishing they hadn't
released it so unpolished.
Hopefully this few months delay will give us a game that we can spend years
enjoying and later call it a 'classic'.
|>In a way, I am mostly pissed off because many companies have it listed in
|>their catalog, and have had it listed since November. The people that
|>placed orders back then must be REALLY annoyed. Its been quite a while
|>and no Gex!
Gives them more time to finish that Level 5 Pacific Highway :-)
|>> This game seems like it will *definately* be a Donkey Kong Country
|>> beater.
|>
|>I hope so. I have a strange feeling that is why they didn't release it
|>in the first place!
Maybe, but at least they are taking the time to make a killer App before
the other systems arrive here.
Hopefully every one in America and the UK will be screaming GEX! like they
did with Sonic before we get WorldWide competition from the other systems.
|>> Of course its probably going to get trashed by EGM anyway so why worry
|>> about it :-)
|>
|>Well, of course! Would you expect anything other than that from EGM? :)
I might expect a 'clue' but then I would be asking too much :-)
Just think in only one month you will be most likely playing the best
platformer ever created, not a kiddie one like Mario or Sonic or etc, etc
and every platformer ever created, but one with the humor and wit of 20+
year olds as well as others that remember the cheesy TV shows were around
when we were growing up.
Mike Hilling
>I'm not tired of the GEX release date getting pushed back.
>
>In fact, i'm so pissed of at Crystal Dynamics, that I am not going to
BUY
>the game now, no matter how GOOD it is! I know just one person won't
>make a difference, but it will make me feel better.
>
>These game developers screw with our minds, and decieve us in many
>different ways. I think its about time they learn the fact that they
>need to please us, the customers, to be succesful.
>
>Its ashame, GEX looks AWESOME! If it is released in March, I won't be
>made, but this latest posting says APRIL!
>
>Sheesh!
>
>
I think you're looking at it all wrong. It's much better for a company
to push the release date back to get all the bugs worked out, than
release something early thats not polished off. Look at Outpost by
Sierra for the PC, thats a PERFECT example. But on the otherhand, when a
game becomes constantly delayed and pushed back, companies have to be
careful that technology doesn't supass them and they end up releasing an
over anticipated, no longer state of the art game. I agree that GEX
looks pretty good, but I am in no way sitting on the edge of my seat
waiting to run to the store to pick it up the moment it's released.
After all, the graphics on it hardly look any better than Donkey Kong
Country on the ol' SNES.
CHolbrook
>On 4 Mar 1995 st...@rosie.uh.edu wrote:
>> Those game programmers are getting paid to work their butts off, and consumers
>> PAY handsomely for thos games that we play to have a pleasant weekend.
>Exactly. They are getting paid. Some people around here seem to think
>they work hard to please us. Yeah right. They work hard to keep their
>job and to make money, like everyone else in the world.
I think that the programmers/musicians/testers/artists etc that work on a
game are not stuck there and enjoy any advancement they make in a game
just as much as the player does. Maybe even more since they did it
themselves.
son...@lexmark.com
[...]
These game developers screw with our minds, and decieve us in many
different ways. I think its about time they learn the fact that they
need to please us, the customers, to be succesful.
[...]
Hi!
There is one rule of thumb I use for games (and systems) in
development. No matter how many people say: "It's coming in a month.";
no matter how many people say: "It's in production."; the release date
for a game is determined by one thing -- at what time one can go to a
store and pick up a copy.
Believing developers, advocates, or interested parties about
release dates is just exactly like believing a used car salesman about
a particular car. They are going to tell one the best possible
scenario.
Independant of vendor, independant of generation, video game
companies want the consumer to believe that their product will deliver
what the consumer wants as fast as possible. The Jag CD, the 3do MPEG
adapter, the SNES CD, AvP, Gex, .....
It's alot less wear and tear on the expectations to expect
products when you see them in the store.
Anyway,
-Chris
Jim Coyle
On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Chris Curry wrote:
> Just think in only one month you will be most likely playing the best
> platformer ever created, not a kiddie one like Mario or Sonic or etc, etc
> and every platformer ever created, but one with the humor and wit of 20+
> year olds as well as others that remember the cheesy TV shows were around
> when we were growing up.
I certainly hope so. And I certainly hope it brings a LOT of good sales
to the 3DO!
Jim Coyle
On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Jeff Timothy wrote:
> Why don't you ask them what is going on with it... Try not to
> blow up on them ;) remember, they have produced many many games for the 3DO!
No kidding. CD has made MANY decent games for the 3DO. If it wasn't for
CD and EA, 3DO would be dead!
Jim Coyle
On 6 Mar 1995, Erin A Fritz wrote:
> It has been practiced since the beginning of time. You announce something
> will be out before it is out in order to get customer awareness up so that
> when it does come out people know already what it is. If it is interesting
Finally! Someone KNOWS what I am talking about. Someone actually
realizes that companies DO pull that kind of crap. Its not just CD, its
EVERYONE! And it works. Look how much hype this thread alone has produced?!
> To be honest you are nearly 100% correct. There were serious gameplay
> problems and the control was bad when it tested. But this just goes further
> to support my arguement. DIDN'T CD ALLOW FOR TIME FOR POSSIBLE GAME TESTING
> AND POSSIBLE PROBLEMS THAT MAY CROP UP? No they didn't. THey thought they
> could have the game done in a few months and that is naive. Plus they sold
No kidding. And even if they were just testing it in December, there was
NO WAY they could have made their release date had the testers not
complained. It takes like a month or two to press all of those games, I
assume. Gex is going to out sell every other 3DO game!
> CD doesn't. Fortunately CD did test it unlike (it seems) some of their other
> titles.
Yeah. I didn't think the play control was all that good on their other
games (CNB, OWI). I certainly hope they don't make that mistake with
their other sports games (Baseball, Basketball, etc).
> It really is begining to look like only EA can get titles out consistently.
It certainly looks that way, doesn't it.
Patrick B. Moynihan
<dah...@planetx.bloomu.edu> wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Patrick B. Moynihan wrote:
>
> > Those game programmers are working their butts off just so you can sit at
> > home on your couch and have a pleasant weekend or evening playing games.
> > Every day, all day long they are in the office working at their computers
> > struggling to make the game the best that it can be. I can't belive you
> > are bitching.
>
> You didn't understand the meaning of my message! Read on, please.
Okay, I agree with you in that respect. Thanks for qualifying your statements.
I too am frustrated by bogus release dates. But blame it on the marketing
department! =)
Jim Coyle
On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Patrick B. Moynihan wrote:
> > You didn't understand the meaning of my message! Read on, please.
>
> Okay, I agree with you in that respect. Thanks for qualifying your statements.
>
> I too am frustrated by bogus release dates. But blame it on the marketing
> department! =)
Well, the way that I worded my original message really did give out the
wrong message, judging by other responces.
As a result of my original message, I got a message from CD stating that
it will hit the stores EARLY April and will start production in March.
I HOPE they are correct this time!
Dave Waller
|> I'm not tired of the GEX release date getting pushed back.
|>
|> In fact, i'm so pissed of at Crystal Dynamics, that I am not going to BUY
|> the game now, no matter how GOOD it is! I know just one person won't
|> make a difference, but it will make me feel better.
Cool off, Jim.
While your anger is very understandable and in my opinion justified, it
simply doesn't make sense to punish yourself over the ineptness of Crystal
Dynamics. As you rationally note, the loss of your revenue alone will not
be noticed by CD at all.
If GEX is a great game, you should buy it because you will have fun with it!
Take out your frustrations just as you have here -- by slamming CD on the
net. It's silly to exact punishment on yourself over this!
(I'll bet he ends up buying they game anyway :-))
--
Dave Waller
Hewlett-Packard Co. 19055 Pruneridge Ave.
Workstation Systems Division Cupertino, CA 95014-9809
Channel Partner Consulting, West (408|T) 447-4413
dwa...@cup.hp.com
Trevor Powell
wrote:
> I think what people are most disappointed with is not the delays in
> order to take care of bugs. Sure we would love a perfect game on time.
> No bugs and on schedule. But everyone knows this isn't going to happen.
>
> Everyone that is, except for the developers and marketing people in the
> game companies. You see what bothers me is when a date is given that
> even the company knows is just wishful thinking. An announcement of a
> game like GEX for Xmas back in September of 94 is an awesome marketing
> gimmic to get customers aware of the name Crystal Dynamics.
I hear this arguement all the time, but I still don't understand it.. Are
you suggesting that the company, for 'PR' reasons, says "our game will be
out on X date" even though they know full well that the game won't be out
then, and that they're going to incur the hatred of lots of gamers
(especially those who pre-order)? It just doesn't make any sense at all
to make that sort of assessment of what's going on.
A more 'common-sense' attribution of the delays (which has been in part
confirmed by a post by someone who was part of a focus-group test of Gex)
is that CD was pushing for an Xmas release, like they were with several
other products.. We all know that Xmas is the important holiday to
release the games by, and that's when they really expected to have Gex
ready.
However, sometime shortly before Xmas, they conducted focus group testing,
and discovered that most people found Gex's control to be somewhat
difficult to grasp, so rather than release it then and get yelled at for
the poor control (as I recall, a LOT of games were being flamed in that
time period for having poor control).. So they put it off. My guess is
that this whole delay has been for control reasons.. after all, they
missed the Xmas 'crunch time' date, and insofar as sales are concerned, it
doesn't make a whole lot of difference if they release it in February or
March -- what'll make the difference is how the control handles.
Remember.. game programmers, regardless of how tempting it is to think
so, are not monsters who love to torment us. They get NO gain from giving
us false release dates, and they receive a LOT of grief for missing them.
Give 'em a break, and content yourself knowing that every day late a
product is is another day of further improving the product. It's worth it
in the long run.
- Trevor "It's half full, of course!" Powell
Timothy McCaffrey
: I'm not tired of the GEX release date getting pushed back.
: These game developers screw with our minds, and decieve us in many
: different ways. I think its about time they learn the fact that they
: need to please us, the customers, to be succesful.
Oh for crying out loud. Why does everyone start whining whenver a game's
release date is pushed back? The way I look at it, if it ends up making
the game better or quashes some serious bugs, then do it. I can wait. Of
course, had Gex come out when scheduled to and had some glitches or bugs
in it liks Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo did, then I'd bet good money
you'd be one of the first to stand up and start bitching about it.
The 3DO has a lot more room to work with in it's CD-ROM setup than what
Jim Coyle
On 6 Mar 1995, Timothy McCaffrey wrote:
> If the 3DO no longer lives up to your expectations then I suggest you
> sell it and move onto whatever does satisfy your expectations. The 3DO
> will either survive or fail based ultimately on the quality of the
> available games. Releasing a game at the promised date, but full of
> bugs, does little to promote an image of quality software that the 3DO
> needs to continue. I agree that there is benefit to developing a product
> as quickly as possible, but if the extra time is needed then it should
> be taken to be certain that the image of the machine does not suffer
> anymore than it has to. If taking the extra time means I get 30 great
> games, but the 3DO dies because of it I'd STILL rather have that than
> 500 piss-poor games and a thriving 3DO.
I'm not the original receipiant of this message, but...
In a way, I agree with the other guy. At one time, I would see a 3DO
game, and my jaw would drop. The graphics and sound were simply
AMAZING, unlike anything i've ever seen!
Since i've owned and played my 3DO so much, and saw pictures of the PSX
and Saturn, I no longer think its "the future now" because I realized
that other systems are starting to catch up (finally) to the 3DO. I am
starting to EXPECT graphics and sound this good.
This doesn't make me think that I should sell my 3DO to get a Saturn or
PSX, because (to me anyway) they don't seem much better than what I have,
and they are twice as much ($800 to import). I LOVE my 3DO! I'm keeping
it until I get the M2!
Now, back the original point. I totally agree with you that companies
should take the extra time to fix bugs. However, many companies accounce
release dates which they KNOW they cannot meet. Its all a scheme to
"hype" up the game. And it works well, but pisses some off (like me).
> Perhaps. Everyone I show mine to is overwhelmed by it. I don't think
> that Gex by itself is going to sell a whole helluva lot of 3DOs. Perhaps
I think it has the power to (even though I haven't played it) with the
proper advertisement. This is something I think the 3DO desperately needs.
> 12 games of the same quality might, but not one by itself. There are
> already a good number of excellent titles out for the 3DO and if that's
> not enough to convince someone to buy one then I doubt Gex or NBA Live,
> or Madden '96 or any other game is going to do it either.
I think there are about 12 games on the market now (or coming VERY soon)
which make the 3DO VERY attractive.
> I don't think anyone disagrees with this. Still, the point is all this
> public whining over game delays doesn't do anything but damage and make
> the programmers resentful and the consumers resentful. If you're not
> part of the solution then you're part of the problem.
They're creating the problem by annoucing dates to hype games. In the
case of Gex - its about half a year late. IMO, it shouldn't take 6
months to fix "small bugs." I don't think it was near completion back in
October.
Jim Coyle
On 6 Mar 1995, Timothy McCaffrey wrote:
> I would really love to see you prove the idea that game companies are
> setting dates that they "know" they can not keep. Such a practice is
> idiotic and self-defeating so no intelligent company wishing to stay in
> business long would be likely to do such things.
Obviously, you haven't thought about it. Doing just that creates a LOT
of hype about a game. It creates conversation, and thus more people get
interested.
In fact, I just proved it works. Look how much that ONE MESSAGE about
Gex being late created? Half of the messages posted in this case have
the subject "GEX! DAMN IT! ... ARRGH!" :)
> If the title delays bother you so much then sell your machine and buy an
> etch-a-sketch or something where you don't have to worry about release
> dates for it being pushed back.
It doesn't. What bothers me is their lies. Holding a game an extra
month to fix bugs is a MUST. No one wants a bug filled game!
> Why should he? You seem to be spewing forth all manner of personal
> deductions with little to back it up.
Well, I just proved it. All the conversation hypes the game. It works,
believe it. Also, there are about 20 people around here that also
agree. Its all part of marketing.
Jim Coyle
On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Patrick B. Moynihan wrote:
> Those game programmers are working their butts off just so you can sit at
> home on your couch and have a pleasant weekend or evening playing games.
> Every day, all day long they are in the office working at their computers
> struggling to make the game the best that it can be. I can't belive you
> are bitching.
You didn't understand the meaning of my message! Read on, please.
I'm bitching because these companies give release dates out when
Chris Curry
and it appears that a lot of work is going into this title.
joy it seems likely that they are going to delay it and only release it
when they feel it is "perfect" and are not going to release it with some
missing parts or things that they *wished* that they had put in.........
Like they had with Crash N Burn.
This game seems like it will *definately* be a Donkey Kong Country
beater.
Of course its probably going to get trashed by EGM anyway so why worry
about it :-)
F.Schober
something about "Upcoming Titles from 3DO forum AOL"...
aan> February
aan>
aan> Flashback: the Quest for Identity US Gold
aan> Immercenary Electronic Arts
I haven't seen them. Are there any reviews?
aan> March
aan>
aan> Dirt Racer Elite
aan> Endless Vivid Interactive
aan> Iron Angel of the Apocalypse Synergy
aan> Quarantine Gametek
aan> Rise of the Robots Absolute Entertainment
aan> Kingdom: the Far Reaches Interplay
aan> Lemmings Chronicles Psygnosis Ltd.
aan> Mindteaser Vivid Interactive
aan> MYST Panasonic Software
aan> Winner Take All Vivid Interactive
Is anything of them out?
CU PLAYSTATION - SATURN - 3DO - 32X/GENESIS - SNES
F.Schober CORE GRAFX - VECTREX - GAME GEAR - to be continued...
Jim Coyle
On 6 Mar 1995, Timothy McCaffrey wrote:
> I mentioned bugs in the program as being one of the things that might
> have contributed to a delay and if the delay means their removal then I
> say take all the damn time you need. Release it when it's ready to be
> or don't release it at all.
You are *STILL* not lisening to what I am saying. I said that I don't
care about holding a game back for fixing bugs. That fine. No one wants
a buggy game. Will you READ the message? This is about pisses me off:
What I am saying is that COMPANIES SET RELEASE DATES WHICH THEY HAVE NO
INTENTION OF MEETING ONLY TO CREATE HYPE OVER A CERTAIN GAME.
Its all part of marketing and it works. If you think it does not, then
why not look at a list of messages in this base? You'll fine MANY of
them have the subject: "Gex! Arrrgh!" or whatever. That was all from
ONE MESSAGE. It certainly worked. The more talk about it, the more wide
spread it gets, the more people want to buy it.
Now, if you reply AGAIN saying: "I don't understand how you could be mad
because they are holding the game back to fix bugs!", then YOU are the
moron because you can't comprehend english.
Jim Coyle
On 6 Mar 1995, AndrewWelc wrote:
> I agree with that 100%. When our company is late with a game, we catch a
> lot of heat for it (and justily so). I don't think any company wishes to
> be late with a game.
You're not a major software company either. And what does you catching
heat have anything to do with our conversation?
Companies try to sell as much as possible. They TRY to create hype about
their game to get it more widespread. I don't understand how you cannot
agree with that.
Erin A Fritz
In article <tpowell-0403...@fw607a.mckenna.edu>, tpo...@cmcvax.mckenna.edu (Trevor Powell) writes:
|> In article <3j8dfd$k...@news.iastate.edu>, fr...@iastate.edu (Erin A Fritz)
|> wrote:
|>
|> > I think what people are most disappointed with is not the delays in
|> > order to take care of bugs. Sure we would love a perfect game on time.
|> > No bugs and on schedule. But everyone knows this isn't going to happen.
|> >
|> > Everyone that is, except for the developers and marketing people in the
|> > game companies. You see what bothers me is when a date is given that
|> > even the company knows is just wishful thinking. An announcement of a
|> > game like GEX for Xmas back in September of 94 is an awesome marketing
|> > gimmic to get customers aware of the name Crystal Dynamics.
|>
|> I hear this arguement all the time, but I still don't understand it.. Are
|> you suggesting that the company, for 'PR' reasons, says "our game will be
|> out on X date" even though they know full well that the game won't be out
|> then, and that they're going to incur the hatred of lots of gamers
|> (especially those who pre-order)? It just doesn't make any sense at all
|> to make that sort of assessment of what's going on.
It has been practiced since the beginning of time. You announce something
will be out before it is out in order to get customer awareness up so that
when it does come out people know already what it is. If it is interesting
enough then people will already want it and as they wait they want it more
and more. If you are a little hungry and want a burger and eat one the
second you think "I am hungry" then one burger might satisfy you and you may
only pay 69 cents. But lets say you realize you are hungry and it isn't
for two more days that you are aloud to enter a McDonalds. Then when you
get there you see lots of fresh burger being made but can't eat until a
tour of the facility finishes. By the time you eat then you may pay $2.00
per burger and eat 10 of them. We are all starving for a platformer and
by announcing it early they have gotten us excited to the point that most
of us will buiy it the second it hits the stores.
|>
|> A more 'common-sense' attribution of the delays (which has been in part
|> confirmed by a post by someone who was part of a focus-group test of Gex)
|> is that CD was pushing for an Xmas release, like they were with several
|> other products.. We all know that Xmas is the important holiday to
|> release the games by, and that's when they really expected to have Gex
|> ready.
|>
|> However, sometime shortly before Xmas, they conducted focus group testing,
|> and discovered that most people found Gex's control to be somewhat
|> difficult to grasp, so rather than release it then and get yelled at for
|> the poor control (as I recall, a LOT of games were being flamed in that
|> time period for having poor control).. So they put it off. My guess is
|> that this whole delay has been for control reasons.. after all, they
|> missed the Xmas 'crunch time' date, and insofar as sales are concerned, it
|> doesn't make a whole lot of difference if they release it in February or
|> March -- what'll make the difference is how the control handles.
To be honest you are nearly 100% correct. There were serious gameplay
problems and the control was bad when it tested. But this just goes further
to support my arguement. DIDN'T CD ALLOW FOR TIME FOR POSSIBLE GAME TESTING
AND POSSIBLE PROBLEMS THAT MAY CROP UP? No they didn't. THey thought they
could have the game done in a few months and that is naive. Plus they sold
the story to us. We all know the importance of game testing and apparently
CD doesn't. Fortunately CD did test it unlike (it seems) some of their other
titles.
THey should have been a little realistic with their release dates. That is
all I am asking for. But GEX isn't the only one. Why the hell did Virgin
say they would be doing 11th HOur way back in the summer of 93 for the 3DO.
It was one of the early titles. OR Domarks Flying Nightmares. It was on
that old 3DO flyer as well. There are tons of titles that are over a year
late (from the release date I am talking not time it was supposed to be in
production), just look at Star Trek.
It really is begining to look like only EA can get titles out consistently.
|>
|> Remember.. game programmers, regardless of how tempting it is to think
|> so, are not monsters who love to torment us. They get NO gain from giving
|> us false release dates, and they receive a LOT of grief for missing them.
|> Give 'em a break, and content yourself knowing that every day late a
|> product is is another day of further improving the product. It's worth it
|> in the long run.
|>
|> - Trevor "It's half full, of course!" Powell
Yeah this is true and I am not complaining the old "Why is it late?" cry
without realizing they are improving the product. I am saying why are we given
these extremely optimistic release dates for products that we all know won't
be out on time and even the companies themselves know won't come out on time.
I pray for the day that at least all the games (not including the cancelled
ones) that were originally announced in late 93 that are still in prduction
come out. That will be a day to celebrate. Then we can work on all the
others.
Erin
--
Erin A. Fritz (Note: not the same as Fritz A. Schober)
email: fr...@iastate.edu
"I don't know, my friend had Lupus and it was a BIG problem." OWI
____DISCLAIMER______________________________________________________
|The opinions expressed above are mine and in no way represent those|
|of my employer, my school, my country, my wife, my political party,|
|my other parties, myself, or my cat. |
|___________________________________________________________________|
Erin A Fritz
In article <senator-0403...@blv-pm4-ip26.halcyon.com>, sen...@halcyon.com (Patrick B. Moynihan) writes:
|> In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.950303011607.12021A-100000@planetx>, Jim Coyle
|>
|> > On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Artrocity! wrote:
|> > In fact, i'm so pissed of at Crystal Dynamics, that I am not going to BUY
|> > the game now, no matter how GOOD it is! I know just one person won't
|> > make a difference, but it will make me feel better.
|> >
|> > These game developers screw with our minds, and decieve us in many
|> > different ways. I think its about time they learn the fact that they
|> > need to please us, the customers, to be succesful.
|>
|> home on your couch and have a pleasant weekend or evening playing games.
|> Every day, all day long they are in the office working at their computers
|> struggling to make the game the best that it can be. I can't belive you
|> are bitching.
|> Patrick Moynihan / Digital Image Production / Macintosh Programmer
|> Fahrenheit 451 / Application Arts, Inc. / Seattle, WA
|> sen...@halcyon.com http://www.halcyon.com/senator/
|>
|> PGP Encryption Public Key Block available upon request.
I really don't want to get into this, but don't those programmers that are
slaving away at their computers day in and day out get rewarded in the
end with our money when we buy the game. Some would make it seem that the
programmers are poor weak unfed souls that only live on the Earth to hear
us spoiled gamers complain. Untrue I tell you!
Christopher C Doss
>
> Hi!
>
> There is one rule of thumb I use for games (and systems) in
> development. No matter how many people say: "It's coming in a month.";
> no matter how many people say: "It's in production."; the release date
> for a game is determined by one thing -- at what time one can go to a
> store and pick up a copy.
>
> Believing developers, advocates, or interested parties about
> release dates is just exactly like believing a used car salesman about
> a particular car. They are going to tell one the best possible
> scenario.
>
> Independant of vendor, independant of generation, video game
> companies want the consumer to believe that their product will deliver
> what the consumer wants as fast as possible. The Jag CD, the 3do MPEG
> adapter, the SNES CD, AvP, Gex, .....
>
> It's alot less wear and tear on the expectations to expect
> products when you see them in the store.
>
> Anyway,
> -Chris
>
I agree! The only thing I pay attention to is the reviews, screen shots
and the special codes. ALWAYS, ALWAYS IGNORE release dates!!
--
The Terror
Timothy McCaffrey
: The problem with pushing back release dates is that game consoles like
: 3DO lose blood for each delayed product. Unfortunately, software
: development started to fall behind hardware improvements. New advanced
: game systems like 3DO need killer games in order to have a large user
: base, but at the same time game development cycle is too long enough
: for the hardware specs which can be obsolete in two years. 3DO has
: been around for 1.5 years, and its eye-popping features are not eye-popping
: anymore considering new competent game systems like PSX.
If the 3DO no longer lives up to your expectations then I suggest you
sell it and move onto whatever does satisfy your expectations. The 3DO
will either survive or fail based ultimately on the quality of the
available games. Releasing a game at the promised date, but full of
bugs, does little to promote an image of quality software that the 3DO
needs to continue. I agree that there is benefit to developing a product
as quickly as possible, but if the extra time is needed then it should
be taken to be certain that the image of the machine does not suffer
anymore than it has to. If taking the extra time means I get 30 great
games, but the 3DO dies because of it I'd STILL rather have that than
500 piss-poor games and a thriving 3DO.
: Whining of course does not help, but one can see that 3DO already spent
: its 1/4th of 1995 without having any good game. And worse is the fact that
: people are not impressed anymore with 3DO as the system gets old.
Perhaps. Everyone I show mine to is overwhelmed by it. I don't think
that Gex by itself is going to sell a whole helluva lot of 3DOs. Perhaps
12 games of the same quality might, but not one by itself. There are
already a good number of excellent titles out for the 3DO and if that's
not enough to convince someone to buy one then I doubt Gex or NBA Live,
or Madden '96 or any other game is going to do it either.
: Software sells hardware and I believe that large companies who have
: both hardware and software support can bear this competing market.
: Small software companies can not catch up with large projects or
: very complex games, so they would be less reluctant to program for
: complex game consoles. On the other hand, a dedicated software
: department can purchase license for each well-known game from
: the original developers and port into their game system. Of course,
: only corporations like Sony can undertake such projects.
Timothy McCaffrey
: These game companies set release dates KNOWING they will not be able to
: meet them. In this case, Gex was due about 6-7 months ago. Its all
: wishful thinking.
I would really love to see you prove the idea that game companies are
setting dates that they "know" they can not keep. Such a practice is
idiotic and self-defeating so no intelligent company wishing to stay in
business long would be likely to do such things.
If the title delays bother you so much then sell your machine and buy an
etch-a-sketch or something where you don't have to worry about release
dates for it being pushed back.
: Who said anything about hurting deep inside? Try reading what is said
: instead of making your own personal deductions.
Timothy McCaffrey
: If there are so many bugs in Gex that it is 7 months late, then why the
: hell did they bother to set a date for 7 months ago?
I'd assume they had originally thought it would be ready by then. I do
not know for certain that it's only "bugs" that is holding it back.
Perhaps they found some extra room to add a few more levels or perhaps
the control system wasn't perfect. Perhaps someone's hard drive
hiccupped and two months worth of work was lost. (This has happened
before. Jim Sachs was designing a game for the Amiga based on 20,000
Leagues Under The Sea and a virus wiped out 6 months worth of work
effectively killing the project.)
I don't know why the game was delayed because I am not working on it. If
I were, I'd probably tell you why it was delayed. I certainly don't
believe it was delayed because they knew for a fact it wouldn't be
ready.
: Are you a complete moron? I thought so.
No, I am not a complete moron. I wouldn't want to muscle in on your job
which you're doing with amazing skill. Do you have to practice in front
of a mirror to be that stupid?
: I said that I am TIRED of
: companies setting release dates and then delaying them. Where the HELL
: do you even get into anything about bugs in a program?
If you're tired of it then I have a really amazing new idea that will
astound you with it's simplicity: Stop reading rec.games.video.3do and
any of the "work-in-porgress" sections of magazines and remain
blissfully ignorant of any false release dates and then you can be happy
when a wonderful new game shows up on your retailer's shelves as a
complete surprise to you. Of course, then you wouldn't have anything
stupid to bitch about (except perhaps yourself) so you probably won't
take this advice to heart.
I mentioned bugs in the program as being one of the things that might
have contributed to a delay and if the delay means their removal then I
say take all the damn time you need. Release it when it's ready to be
or don't release it at all.
released or don't release it at all.
Timothy McCaffrey
: You are *STILL* not lisening to what I am saying. I said that I don't
: care about holding a game back for fixing bugs. That fine. No one wants
: a buggy game. Will you READ the message? This is about pisses me off:
: What I am saying is that COMPANIES SET RELEASE DATES WHICH THEY HAVE NO
: INTENTION OF MEETING ONLY TO CREATE HYPE OVER A CERTAIN GAME.
I read your message and understood fully what you were saying. I still
say you're full of shit. There is nothing to gain by making public a
release date they have no hopes of keeping because the negative response
(such as this whole stupid thread) generated by the lateness of the game
will over-ride any hype they could have hoped to have generated.
A little early for hype considerations is one thing, but no one in their
right mind with any background in marketing at all is going to announce
a release date that's 7 months off the mark. It just DOESN'T help them
at all to do such things.
: Its all part of marketing and it works. If you think it does not, then
: why not look at a list of messages in this base? You'll fine MANY of
: them have the subject: "Gex! Arrrgh!" or whatever. That was all from
: ONE MESSAGE. It certainly worked. The more talk about it, the more wide
: spread it gets, the more people want to buy it.
Yeah, half the messages in here are about people bitching about the
lateness of Gex. I'm sure there are tons of non-3DO owners just lineing
up in anticipation of purchasing a 3DO and this game that everyone keeps
bitching about. Sure, it's helped a lot. Why I didn't notice that all
these people flocking to a title not even released yet is beyond me. All
this "hype", as you call it, has probably had the opposite effect of
which you claim. People looking in are probably turned off because
they're getting this perception that nothing ever comes out on time for
the 3DO.
So yeah, there's a lot of message like this, but I don't see how it's
helping CD at all.
: Now, if you reply AGAIN saying: "I don't understand how you could be mad
: because they are holding the game back to fix bugs!", then YOU are the
: moron because you can't comprehend english.
I never said "I don't understand how you could be mad.. blah blah blah:"
I said that I was sick of all the losers out there like yourself who
whine anytime they can't get instant gratification. I understand english
perfectly, it would appear you're the one who needs to learn how to
read.
AndrewWelc
> setting dates that they "know" they can not keep. Such a practice is
> idiotic and self-defeating so no intelligent company wishing to stay in
> business long would be likely to do such things.
I agree with that 100%. When our company is late with a game, we catch a
lot of heat for it (and justily so). I don't think any company wishes to
be late with a game.
Regards,
Andrew Welch
Ambrosia Software, Inc.
AndrewWelc
> INTENTION OF MEETING ONLY TO CREATE HYPE OVER A CERTAIN GAME.
What I am saying is that I don't think any company that values its
reputation would ever do this intentionally...
Kelly Hall
Patrick> Those game programmers are working their butts off just
Patrick> so you can sit at home on your couch and have a pleasant
Patrick> weekend or evening playing games.
Damn straight. I paid upwards of $60 for the pleasure, too. If you
don't get fair compensation on your end, I advise you to pick a new
job.
Patrick> Every day, all day long they are in the office working at
Patrick> their computers struggling to make the game the best that
Patrick> it can be. I can't belive you are bitching.
I agree with you here: the game developers aren't the ones to bitch
about. They're doing their best to meet the demands of the marketing
pukes. If you need a reason to stop buying games, stop buying them
because the marketing people keep promising unrealistic things (read:
lie through their teeth).
The next question is: why do the marketing folks lie? Chances are,
they're greedy for the $60 I have in my pocket in anticipation of the
coming weekend of game playing...
Kelly
--
Kelly Hall <ha...@bert.cs.byu.edu>
http://lal.cs.byu.edu/people/hall.html
* My child passed the metal detector at
Central High School *
Dave_...@vos.stratus.com
> On 3 Mar 1995, CHolbrook wrote:
>> RELAX! I think if you feel your mind is screwed up and your hurt deep
>> down inside your taking this a little to seriously!
> These game companies set release dates KNOWING they will not be able to
> meet them. In this case, Gex was due about 6-7 months ago. Its all
> wishful thinking.
Sheesh.. I've just read 6 other posts by you saying this exact same thing (are
you EA/Dave in disguise?).
Maybe you can share with us your rational for saying that CD has intentionally
misled us.. Personally, I think you don't know what you're talking about. Them
*knowingly* skewing the release date by 6+ months would be a very, very stupid
thing to do. It's much more likely that they underestimated the work involved
or ran across show-stopping bugs that have forced them to re-engineer a major
part of the code.
> Who said anything about hurting deep inside? Try reading what is said
> instead of making your own personal deductions.
I think you've made it (overly) clear that you're very annoyed, possibly hurt-
ing inside and probably boarding on a breakdown. Relax a bit, have a beer or
something.
-Dave
Jay Sosna
>
> February
>
> The Coven Vivid Interactive
> Digital Dreamware Virgin Interactive
> Seal of the Pharaoh Panasonic Software
> Slopestyle L3 Interactive
Why haven't any of these games come out yet? When is the M2
accelerator coming out? And at how much? Is the M2 worth buying?
Are there going to be game for it coming out at the same time as
the M2 or am I going to have to wait 2 months before some decent
games come out for it? Is it going to come with a game? What games
supposedly coming out for it? If any 3do dude is reading this tell
the people at 3do to make a M2 edition of Road Rash. That would be
amazing!!
!!AUNNY!!
Christopher C Doss
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.950306034343.517G-100000@planetx>, Jim Coyle <dah...@planetx.bloomu.edu> writes:
> Path: taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!jake.esu.edu!galaxy.bloomu.edu!planetx!dahein
> From: Jim Coyle <dah...@planetx.bloomu.edu>
> Newsgroups: rec.games.video.3do
> Subject: Re: GEX! DAMN IT! ... ARRGH!
> Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 03:51:37 -0500
> Organization: Bloomsburg University
> Lines: 29
> Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950306034343.517G-100000@planetx>
> References: <3j0es2$6...@clarknet.clark.net> <Pine.SOL.3.91.950303011607.12021A-100000@planetx> <3j8mvr$k...@xmission.xmission.com> <Pine.SOL.3.91.950304203439.9733E-100000@planetx> <3jefhg$f...@oak.oakland.edu>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: planetx.bloomu.edu
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> X-Sender: dahein@planetx
> In-Reply-To: <3jefhg$f...@oak.oakland.edu>
>
> Well, I just proved it. All the conversation hypes the game. It works,
> believe it. Also, there are about 20 people around here that also
> agree. Its all part of marketing.
>
Would it surprise you if the original author was affiliated with CD?
--
The Terror
Kujawa, Kraig J.
>an...@artrocity.net (Artrocity!) wrote:
>>
>> February
>>
>> The Coven Vivid Interactive
>> Digital Dreamware Virgin Interactive
>> Flashback: the Quest for Identity US Gold
>> Immercenary Electronic Arts
>> Seal of the Pharaoh Panasonic Software
>> Slopestyle L3 Interactive
>
>Why haven't any of these games come out yet? When is the M2
Slopestyle and Seal of the Pharoah are out.
-Kraig
Erik Kraft
>|> In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.950303011607.12021A-100000@planetx>, Jim Coyle
>|> <dah...@planetx.bloomu.edu> wrote:
>|> Those game programmers are working their butts off just so you can sit at
>|> home on your couch and have a pleasant weekend or evening playing games.
>|> Every day, all day long they are in the office working at their computers
>|> struggling to make the game the best that it can be. I can't belive you
>|> are bitching.
All day? Is that what we are supposed to do? I thought four or six hours
a day (when i feel like it) was enough. Damn. You mean I have to work?
>
>I really don't want to get into this, but don't those programmers that are
>slaving away at their computers day in and day out get rewarded in the
>end with our money when we buy the game. Some would make it seem that the
>programmers are poor weak unfed souls that only live on the Earth to hear
>us spoiled gamers complain. Untrue I tell you!
Money? I make money for doing this? Maybe I really should go into work
more often...
[ For the humour impaired ----> ] :-)
--
erik kraft
NeXT programmer / 3do programmer
ekr...@netcom.com
SysOp
> Jim Coyle <dah...@planetx.bloomu.edu> writes:
[...]
> >In fact, i'm so pissed of at Crystal Dynamics, that I am not going to BUY
> >the game now, no matter how GOOD it is! I know just one person won't
[...]
> RELAX! I think if you feel your mind is screwed up and your hurt deep
> down inside your taking this a little to seriously!
Really. I think it's pretty common for dates to slip in software
development in general. I don't think it's always marketing, but
perhaps wishful thinking of some involved with the product (probably
management, heh). Sometimes new features are added at the end.
Hopefully it is play-tested along the way, and if any major problems
are found, I'd rather it be delayed. So who can say what the delay is?
When it's on the shelf, get it. Until then, patience! :-)
> I hope what you said above was a joke!
Probably wasn't!
I figure, if Crystal Dynamics can send me a demo disk, including some
"footage" of GEX, for free, with a jewel case and everything (not
even a cardboard thingie!), how can I think of anything except what
a great company they are?
And the idea that I would buy Samurai Shodown (to use another poster's
example) because I wanted GEX is sort of silly. Am I buying SS
in order to keep CD in business long enough to create GEX? ;-)
I don't get it... Although, judging by past games, I would have to
consider any game by CD more likely to be a "good game", since I've
liked their others.
---
Gary Wolfe "I'm not sleeping around..." -- Ned's Atomic Dustbin
tlvx!sy...@sinkhole.unf.edu or tlvx!sy...@interphase.com
Jeff Eberlin
>their game to get it more widespread. I don't understand how you cannot
>agree with that.
I program for a software manufacturer (Not games, but software for PC's) and I
can tell you that release dates are the most stupid thing ever created. No one
EVER meets a deadline on any software. The programmer's do not set the release
dates, marketing does. Marketing will say ANYTHING to sell the product.. they
will exagerate anything to make people buy. If you expect a game two months
prior and then it comes out, you'll probably still buy it if it's good. If it
came out on time and was buggy as hell (Samuri Showdown) then you would flame
it.... just wait...
I don't like late releases any more than the rest of you, I just like releases!
--------------------------------------------
Jeff Eberlin je...@powergrid.electriciti.com
3DO - PC - SNES "I just want to play!"
___
/\ ===== / \
/33\ = D = = O = "What's the matter, too
\33/ = D = = O = REAL for you?"
\/ ===== \___/ -X Man
--------------------------------------------
Jim Coyle
On Tue, 7 Mar 1995, SysOp wrote:
> I figure, if Crystal Dynamics can send me a demo disk, including some
> "footage" of GEX, for free, with a jewel case and everything (not
> even a cardboard thingie!), how can I think of anything except what
> a great company they are?
I sent it my registration card when I bought my 3DO (Crash and Burn) and
never received anything from them.
Despot
Seems like everyone here is acting like a herion junkie waiting
for their next fix....
Chris Curry
With me It was the registration card I got with Off-World Interceptor, I
think the Crash N Burn pack in thing is something different. Perhaps its
only with the more recent CD games.
Jim Coyle
On Fri, 10 Mar 1995, Chris Curry wrote:
> With me It was the registration card I got with Off-World Interceptor, I
> think the Crash N Burn pack in thing is something different. Perhaps its
> only with the more recent CD games.
Nah, I don't think so considering that CNB is still available in stores
now...
Who knows. I was able to get it from my local Software Etc.
F.Schober
something about "Re: GEX! DAMN IT! ... ARRGH!"...
cmc> This game seems like it will *definately* be a Donkey Kong
cmc> Country beater.
If not, this would be very poor for a 32Bit RISC system compared to a CISC
16 Bit wit ha weak CPU! And the gameplay in DKC is worse than the gameplay
of Mario. So the gameplay has to be better or it's just another forgetable
jump and run. I hope they use the time to make it a really good game.
cmc> Of course its probably going to get trashed by EGM anyway so why
cmc> worry about it :-)
If it's not better than DKC I also would trash it.
Why an expensive 32bit then if the half century
old SNES offers something equal?
Take it easy :)
F.A.Schober
Jon R.
>>|> In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.950303011607.12021A-100000@planetx>, Jim Coyle
>>|> <dah...@planetx.bloomu.edu> wrote:
>>|> Those game programmers are working their butts off just so you can sit at
>>|> home on your couch and have a pleasant weekend or evening playing games.
>>|> Every day, all day long they are in the office working at their computers
>>|> struggling to make the game the best that it can be. I can't belive you
>>|> are bitching.
Wrong - the programmers (and yes I am one) slave away all day so they can earn
large sums of money. If a piece of s/w is good then usually (if marketed well)
this will be well received and earn the programmers justifiable recompense
(see any interviews with iD, Dave Perry, Archer Maclean etc when they talk about
their Ferraris & Lambos).
However, there are also the piles of absolute trite which are released by s/w
houses which I for one would be ashamed to release Alpha testing (Iron Angel OTA,
Virtuoso etc.... to infiniti). Pitty the people who spend hard earned & saved money
on a game which is too bad to play more than once.
So don't feel sorry for the programmers - praise were justified but complain and warn
others if required.
Jon.
P.S. If the wheel falls of your car - don't blame the manufacturer they probably had
a hard day.