[Dune] Secret Allegiance

[Gilles Garnier]

Hello,

I have a problem with Secret Allegiance. According to all the rulings I
read, you can play this card on an opponent's persona, adding a new
allegiance of your choice to this persona.

As far as I know (I do not have all the cards), there is nothing to counter
an enhancement when it is played and there is nothing to remove an
enhancement when in play.

This makes Secret Allegiance the most powerful (broken) card of Dune. Not
only does it subdue the persona if you chose an adverse allegiance, but as
soon as there is enough deferment tokens on the persona, it comes back in
play and the controling player loses favor. And the process repeats itself
ad nauseam.

And this card is not even rare (which wouldn't change the fact that it is
totally broken).

Is there a plan to limit the power of this card, or will we see 4 Secret
Allegiance in every deck, making the game much less interesting?

[R.D. McKown]

Uhhh......I think you have misunderstood the card (and how it is
played)!

When you play SA on a persona and give them an adversarial allegiance
they become subdued. The next turn they both have a defferment token on
them. You can pay the difference to immediately bring your persona into
play (leaving SA subdued) and use them that turn and on the following
turn. However now SA has 2 defferment tokens and must be brought into
play this turn.....wait until you have used the persona and then later
in the turn deploy SA. This now causes your persona to gain the
adversarial allegiance again and as per the rules.....beomes subdued
again, causing no lose in favor.

I hope this helps!
--
Russell D. McKown

Bluegrass Wargamers Group

Playtester of Dune

Seeking the Full Reverend Face Dancer

......You Will Pay......

[Daniel Holzer]

R.D. McKown (rdmc...@pop.iglou.com) wrote:
: Gilles Garnier wrote:
: >
: > Hello,

: Uhhh......I think you have misunderstood the card (and how it is
: played)!

: When you play SA on a persona and give them an adversarial allegiance
: they become subdued. The next turn they both have a defferment token on
: them. You can pay the difference to immediately bring your persona into
: play (leaving SA subdued) and use them that turn and on the following
: turn. However now SA has 2 defferment tokens and must be brought into
: play this turn.....wait until you have used the persona and then later
: in the turn deploy SA. This now causes your persona to gain the
: adversarial allegiance again and as per the rules.....beomes subdued
: again, causing no lose in favor.

: I hope this helps!
: --
: Russell D. McKown

Well, that is a tactic that our playtest group also discovered. However
it is very expensive, and your character is extremely limited. I am not
complaining about the large power of the card (second to Poison Gas Tooth
in most circumstances), or the relatively easy availability of the card,
nor the low cost and no restrictions on its use. What I am complaining
about is that it makes no sense. Boy, Shaddam was secretly an Atreides.
Down he goes. Next turn he comes back and is just a Corrino again.
Suddenly, on the next turn, he becomes an Atreides again. He goes
running in shame and fear until the next turn, when all is forgotten as
he is only Corrino again. This makes absolutely no sense from the Dune
books, or even based on the Dune engine. Non-compact and non-bastion
enhancements should be permanent, and before the attached card is
deployed it should be mandatory that they are deployed. In addition, it
makes no sense for your opponent to play enchancements like Diplomancy,
etc., on your personas. He has no say over the type of aides that you
hire, nor of the training you provide.

[jmey...@mshanken.com]

In article <65fvp7$44o$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
dho...@mail2.sas.upenn.edu (Daniel Holzer) wrote:
> [snip]

> What I am complaining
> about is that it makes no sense. Boy, Shaddam was secretly an Atreides.
> Down he goes. Next turn he comes back and is just a Corrino again.
> Suddenly, on the next turn, he becomes an Atreides again. He goes
> running in shame and fear until the next turn, when all is forgotten as
> he is only Corrino again. This makes absolutely no sense from the Dune
> books, or even based on the Dune engine. Non-compact and non-bastion
> enhancements should be permanent, and before the attached card is
> deployed it should be mandatory that they are deployed. In addition, it

> makes no sense for your opponent to play enchancements like Diplomacy,

> etc., on your personas. He has no say over the type of aides that you
> hire, nor of the training you provide.

It might help, in a "what does this game represent" sense, to think of
the subdual and deployment of personas strictly in terms of their
availability to help the cause of your minor House. You, a minor House
with a Corrino sponsor, deploy Shaddam IV. Now the Emperor himself
stands ready to assist you. However, he secretly has Atreides allegiance!
Suddenly, he's not there when you need him. You still have a claim on
him (he's still Corrino, after all), so you can finagle him back into
action, but eventually his Secret Allegiance will take over, and once
again Shaddam isn't answering his phone when you call.

As far as aides and training goes, remember that even a lowly aide is an
individual that can be manipulated by rivals that may not have that
aide's best interest in mind. Let's say you've got an annoying Landsraad
Emissary that's been interfering with my charters, not to mention
increasing your Assembly limit. I, your rival, see to it that this
Emissary is appointed a Peer of the Realm. From the aide's point of
view, this is fabulous! How could he pass up such an opportunity? You,
however, gnash your teeth because you know all I want is to make the poor
sap a Noble so I can capture him with Lady Margot.

Well, it works for me.

-- Joe Meyerson

-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet

[Michael D. Muray PA]

jmey...@mshanken.com wrote:

> It might help, in a "what does this game represent" sense, to think of
> the subdual and deployment of personas strictly in terms of their
> availability to help the cause of your minor House. You, a minor House
> with a Corrino sponsor, deploy Shaddam IV. Now the Emperor himself
> stands ready to assist you. However, he secretly has Atreides allegiance!
> Suddenly, he's not there when you need him. You still have a claim on
> him (he's still Corrino, after all), so you can finagle him back into
> action, but eventually his Secret Allegiance will take over, and once
> again Shaddam isn't answering his phone when you call.

Here's another little tidbit to think about.

Ok. I play Secret Allegiance on Shaddam IV. He becomes Atreides, and
subdues.

The Secret Allegiance subdues, since it's an "enhancement" to him, and
he's subdued.

But wait... you're in control of all cards in your "domain" or whatever
you call it...

Shaddam returns after a turn or two... As does the Secret Allegiance.

But now it's effectively YOUR Secret Allegiance, isn't it? So you get
to decide to make him a Guildsman now, which is fine with everyone...
(Except the Guild, of course...)

If I control a harvester you deploy on my feif, or a battalion, then
wouldn't I also control the Peer of the Realm or Secret Allegiance?

Chairman Muray
House Nahzd'ak

[Matthew W. Dicksion]

Michael D. Muray PA (md...@NOSPAMcyberwar.com) wrote:
: Ok. I play Secret Allegiance on Shaddam IV. He becomes Atreides, and
: subdues.

Assuming Shaddam's owner was playing Corrino or Harkonnen.

: The Secret Allegiance subdues, since it's an "enhancement" to him, and
: he's subdued.

Yup.

: But wait... you're in control of all cards in your "domain" or whatever
: you call it...

No you don't.

: Shaddam returns after a turn or two... As does the Secret Allegiance.

Yup.

: But now it's effectively YOUR Secret Allegiance, isn't it?

No it isn't.

: So you get

: to decide to make him a Guildsman now, which is fine with everyone...
: (Except the Guild, of course...)

No you don't.

: If I control a harvester you deploy on my feif, or a battalion, then

: wouldn't I also control the Peer of the Realm or Secret Allegiance?

Since you still control harvesters which you assign to other players'
deserts, you would also still control a Secret Allegiance, Chaumurky or
Timed Drug which you play on an opponent's persona.

I agree, however, that Secret Allegiance needs some serious clarification.

...

[Matthew M. Colville]

In article <347C7D...@NOSPAMcyberwar.com>, "Michael D. Muray PA"
<md...@NOSPAMcyberwar.com> wrote:

> Here's another little tidbit to think about.
>

> Ok. I play Secret Allegiance on Shaddam IV. He becomes Atreides, and
> subdues.
>

> The Secret Allegiance subdues, since it's an "enhancement" to him, and
> he's subdued.
>

> But wait... you're in control of all cards in your "domain" or whatever
> you call it...
>

> Shaddam returns after a turn or two... As does the Secret Allegiance.
>

> But now it's effectively YOUR Secret Allegiance, isn't it? So you get

> to decide to make him a Guildsman now, which is fine with everyone...
> (Except the Guild, of course...)
>

> If I control a harvester you deploy on my feif, or a battalion, then
> wouldn't I also control the Peer of the Realm or Secret Allegiance?

As per my most recent understand of how the card works, yes, you do
govern the card. However, Secret Allegiance has its allegiance picked when
*assigned* so, since you never assigned the card, you don't get to change
the allegiance.
Neither does anyone else (a reversal on something I said earlier) once
assigned, Secret Allegiance will continue to give it's parent card the same
allegiance every time it's deployed.

Bi-la Kaifa
----------
Matthew M. Colville mcol...@earthlink.net
Diplomat/Sage/Dunedain Unaligned Monk Philosopher
Official Dune CCG netrep Atreides Mentat Master of Assassins
---------------------- ----------------------------------
Role-Playing & Fiction; http://home.earthlink.net/~mcolville
"My Lord, I suspect a great secret is being kept here on Arrakis. . ."