can dark ritual be countered?
Concord
On 26 Feb 1997, Sani Entertainment wrote:
> dark ritual is a mana source , so can it be countered?
No... mana sources happen faster then interrupts, instants, etc...
Besides, why not just counter the spell they're using the dark ritual for
in the first place?
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Sani Entertainment
Jerry Bandy
Concord (cric...@uiuc.edu) wrote:
: No... mana sources happen faster then interrupts, instants, etc...
: Besides, why not just counter the spell they're using the dark ritual for
: in the first place?
The only time I've found this to be necessary is when I get power
sinked(sunk?) and the DR is the only thing that saves my spell from
getting countered. Then countering the DR would be nice, but otherwise, I
agree: get the spell the DR powers up.
Juzzam
I read somewhere that Dark Ritual can be countered, if you want to spend
the mana and get the card out of your hand. But your opponent gets his
mana faster than your counterspell can take effect. So all you do is
waste your resources (which a desparate man facing a Black Vise might want
to do).
Vesa-Matti Sarenius
Juzzam wrote:
>
> I read somewhere that Dark Ritual can be countered, if you want to spend
> the mana and get the card out of your hand. But your opponent gets his
Mana sources cannot be interrupted like other announced spells and
effects
can. [Mirage Page 8]
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Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa
Concord <cric...@uiuc.edu> thusly spewed:
> On 26 Feb 1997, Sani Entertainment wrote:
> > dark ritual is a mana source , so can it be countered?
> No... mana sources happen faster then interrupts, instants, etc...
> Besides, why not just counter the spell they're using the dark ritual for
> in the first place?
because if I'm holding spellblast and I have UU available, i can handle
the dark ritual but not the Sengir. this actually happened to me in a
sealed deck tourney. I was on the receiving end of the spellblast back
when the ritual was an interrupt.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| |
| President, Sons of Kosh Kosh Lives!!|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Adam Perry
Concord wrote:
>
> On 26 Feb 1997, Sani Entertainment wrote:
> Besides, why not just counter the spell they're using the dark ritual for
> in the first place?
Because your opponnent is using the mana to pump a frozen shade
;)
James Wenzel
Jerry Bandy wrote:
>
> Concord (cric...@uiuc.edu) wrote:
> : No... mana sources happen faster then interrupts, instants, etc...
> :
> : Besides, why not just counter the spell they're using the dark ritual for
> : in the first place?
>
> sinked(sunk?) and the DR is the only thing that saves my spell from
> getting countered. Then countering the DR would be nice, but otherwise, I
> agree: get the spell the DR powers up.
Okay. I've seen this happen in the 'old days' when mana sources could be
countered:
Him: Island. Done.
Me: Swamp. Done.
Him: Plains. Done.
Me: Swamp. Dark Ritual. Hyppie.
Him: Not so Fast! Spell Blast the Ritual.
Me: Shit!
Now, Me: Nope, you can't do that; and I can pay off the Power Sink, so that
ain't gonna work; with only one Blue mana available, you can either Force of
Will the Hyppie, or Arcane Denial it. Either way, you give up card
advantage. (Well, you could Memory Lapse it, but it'll be back next turn
when I have a third Swamp).
As a mono-black player, I love the fact that Black now has 4 uncounterable
spells (Sacrifice, Burnt Offering, Dark Ritual, and Songs of the Damned) -
and Nether Void besides!
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(James Wenzel)
jg...@virginia.edu
Cameron Hutchison
Concord <cric...@uiuc.edu> writes:
>Besides, why not just counter the spell they're using the dark ritual for
>in the first place?
Because they may not be using the mana to cast a spell?
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Carl Heise
On 27 Feb 1997 00:01:47 GMT, ca...@zipper.zip.com.au (Cameron
Hutchison) wrote:
>Concord <cric...@uiuc.edu> writes:
>
>>Besides, why not just counter the spell they're using the dark ritual for
>>in the first place?
>
>Because they may not be using the mana to cast a spell?
It is a mana source, mana sources cannot be countered see 5th rules
Travis Hall
Carl Heise (4he...@zim.com.au) wrote:
: On 27 Feb 1997 00:01:47 GMT, ca...@zipper.zip.com.au (Cameron
: Hutchison) wrote:
:
: >Concord <cric...@uiuc.edu> writes:
: >
: >>Besides, why not just counter the spell they're using the dark ritual for
: >>in the first place?
: >
: >Because they may not be using the mana to cast a spell?
Also, ever been stuck with only a Spell Blast and two untapped land?
That's no good for countering the Sengir Vampire that's about to come out.
Sometimes, it was easier to Power Sink before the mana became available,
too.
: It is a mana source, mana sources cannot be countered see 5th rules
Correct. <sigh> That used to be a great trick when playing blue vs a black
deck.
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The Wraith
Ric
Actually I could imagine several instances the primary one being a
spell blast imagine this
Player 1 play island
player 2 play swamp
player 1 play island
player 2 play swamp,cast ritual
Now if player one has a spell blast he can stop the ritual and prevent
the abyssal specter thats coming but he can't blast the abyssal
It's all moot though since it can't be countered
On Wed, 28 May 1997 10:22:36 GMT, 4he...@zim.com.au (Carl Heise)
wrote:
>On 27 Feb 1997 00:01:47 GMT, ca...@zipper.zip.com.au (Cameron
>Hutchison) wrote:
>
>>Concord <cric...@uiuc.edu> writes:
>>
>>>Besides, why not just counter the spell they're using the dark ritual for
>>>in the first place?
>>
>>Because they may not be using the mana to cast a spell?
>
lynnjones
Travis Hall wrote:
>
> Carl Heise (4he...@zim.com.au) wrote:
> : On 27 Feb 1997 00:01:47 GMT, ca...@zipper.zip.com.au (Cameron
> : Hutchison) wrote:
> :
> : >Concord <cric...@uiuc.edu> writes:
> : >
> : >>Besides, why not just counter the spell they're using the dark ritual for
> : >>in the first place?
> : >
> : >Because they may not be using the mana to cast a spell?
>
> That's no good for countering the Sengir Vampire that's about to come out.
> Sometimes, it was easier to Power Sink before the mana became available,
> too.
>
> : It is a mana source, mana sources cannot be countered see 5th rules
>
> Correct. <sigh> That used to be a great trick when playing blue vs a black
> deck.
>
> --
> Why is it that when I do finally get around to creating a .sig file, I
> can't think of a single witty thing to say in it?
>
> The Wraith
basically tapping a land
Travis Hall
lynnjones (lynn...@prodigy.net) wrote:: > :
: > : It is a mana source, mana sources cannot be countered see 5th rules
: >
: > Correct. <sigh> That used to be a great trick when playing blue vs a black
: > deck.
: NO...Its a mana source.....You arent really casting a spell...You are
: basically tapping a land
Read more carefully before correcting. I and the previous poster both
stated that Dark Ritual cannot be countered. My comments on countering it
referred to pre-5th Ed/Mirage rules.
And you are casting a spell. All cards are one of two types - spells and
land. Dark Ritual doesn't happen to say "Land" on the left just under the
picture, so it's a spell. It just happens to be a type of spell which
cannot be countered, because it resolves before anyone gets the chance.
Erik Osterholm
Aska...@prodigy.net (Ric) wrote:
>Actually I could imagine several instances the primary one being a
>spell blast imagine this
>Player 1 play island
>player 2 play swamp
>player 1 play island
>player 2 play swamp,cast ritual
>Now if player one has a spell blast he can stop the ritual and prevent
>the abyssal specter thats coming but he can't blast the abyssal
Sorry, I don't understand this: he obviously canNOT stop the
ritual...you just said so below.
>It's all moot though since it can't be countered
Correct. Bottom line is that you can't stop mana sources. They just
happen. I think someone once said that it's like they stop the game
for a brief instance and when the game resumes suddenly you have the
mana in your pool. There wasn't even *time* for a counter.
Erik Osterholm
er...@tamu.edu
http://PersonalWebs.myriad.net/erik/
http://www2.cy-net.net/~erik/
Travis Hall
Erik Osterholm (er...@tamu.edu) wrote:
:
: Sorry, I don't understand this: he obviously canNOT stop the
: ritual...you just said so below.
However, it could be stopped under 4th Edition rules, and some of us just
like to play mind games with the rules. (And you never know, you might run
into a group of players some day who became disenchanted with the game
before Mirage, and never bothered buying later cards or switching to
updated rules.)
Douglas Mayle
> And you are casting a spell. All cards are one of two types - spells and
> land. Dark Ritual doesn't happen to say "Land" on the left just under the
> picture, so it's a spell. It just happens to be a type of spell which
> cannot be countered, because it resolves before anyone gets the chance.
>
impression that, as said above, the card is still a spell, and that it
is
the effect which is a mana source. As in, you can counter a spell (ie.
the
ritual) but you can't play anything faster than the resolved effect, as
it
is a mana source.
Douglas Mayle
Johnny Ace
According to Wizards' rulings, mana sources are faster even than
interrupts, and are thus uncounterable.
Ace :)
Jim Hamp
On Sat, 21 Jun 1997, Douglas Mayle wrote:
> > And you are casting a spell. All cards are one of two types - spells and
> > land. Dark Ritual doesn't happen to say "Land" on the left just under the
> > picture, so it's a spell. It just happens to be a type of spell which
> > cannot be countered, because it resolves before anyone gets the chance.
> >
> Pardon my ignorance, but is that the official ruling? I was under the
> impression that, as said above, the card is still a spell, and that it
> is
> the effect which is a mana source. As in, you can counter a spell (ie.
> the
> ritual) but you can't play anything faster than the resolved effect, as
> it
> is a mana source.
Yes, it is the official ruling. Mana Sources cannot be interrupted (Rule
Book). A Counterspell is an interrupt.
Hampster
Knight of Nemesis
Distribution:
Douglas Mayle (dma...@bu.edu) wrote:
: > And you are casting a spell. All cards are one of two types - spells and
: > land. Dark Ritual doesn't happen to say "Land" on the left just under the
: > picture, so it's a spell. It just happens to be a type of spell which
: > cannot be countered, because it resolves before anyone gets the chance.
: >
: Pardon my ignorance, but is that the official ruling? I was under the
: impression that, as said above, the card is still a spell, and that it
: is
: the effect which is a mana source. As in, you can counter a spell (ie.
: the
: ritual) but you can't play anything faster than the resolved effect, as
: it
: is a mana source.
: Douglas Mayle
The dark ritual is a man source rigth? So its faster than anything else
rigth? It resolves before a counterspell rigth? So if you counter it when
the counter resolves the dark ritual has already resolved and your counter
fizzles, besides why do you want to counter the dark ritual if you can
counter whatever its mana is going to produce.
___________________________________________ ______________________________
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| homepage : alfa.ist.utl.pt/~l41510 | Audaces fortuna juvat |
|___________________________________________|______________________________|
Noah
Juzzam wrote:
>
> >Douglas Mayle wrote:
> >>
> >> > And you are casting a spell. All cards are one of two types - spells
> and
> >> > land. Dark Ritual doesn't happen to say "Land" on the left just under
> the
> >> > picture, so it's a spell. It just happens to be a type of spell which
> >> > cannot be countered, because it resolves before anyone gets the
> chance.
> >> >
> >> Pardon my ignorance, but is that the official ruling? I was under the
> >> impression that, as said above, the card is still a spell, and that it
> >> is
> >> the effect which is a mana source. As in, you can counter a spell (ie.
> >> the
> >> ritual) but you can't play anything faster than the resolved effect, as
> >> it
> >> is a mana source.
> >> Douglas Mayle
> >
> >interrupts, and are thus uncounterable.
>
> want to burn the mana and use the card. But the person who played the
> Dark Ritual gets the mana faster than an interrupt, so he still gets the
> mana despite the successful counterspell.
This is correct, afaik. This means you can arcane your own dark ritual
to basically change 1 blue mana into one black mana and draw 3 cards.
Feels just like an ancestral!
That was sarcasm.
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Xira
In article <5p2ivk$d...@ci.ist.utl.pt>, l41...@alfa.ist.utl.pt says...
>
>Distribution:
>Douglas Mayle (dma...@bu.edu) wrote:
>: > And you are casting a spell. All cards are one of two types - spells and
>: > land. Dark Ritual doesn't happen to say "Land" on the left just under the
>: > picture, so it's a spell. It just happens to be a type of spell which
>: > cannot be countered, because it resolves before anyone gets the chance.
>: >
>: Pardon my ignorance, but is that the official ruling? I was under the
>: impression that, as said above, the card is still a spell, and that it
>: is
>: the effect which is a mana source. As in, you can counter a spell (ie.
>: the
>: ritual) but you can't play anything faster than the resolved effect, as
>: it
>: is a mana source.
>: Douglas Mayle
>rigth? It resolves before a counterspell rigth? So if you counter it when
>the counter resolves the dark ritual has already resolved and your counter
>fizzles, besides why do you want to counter the dark ritual if you can
>counter whatever its mana is going to produce.
Demonic hords...
3 vampire bats...
There are LOTS of resons for countering a dark rit.
Ryan
CAN be countered, but they add the mana beforehand(when
announced). This is what Ritual-Nether Void work. The Ritual
is countered, but the mana is alreadu there
--
"A good american must practice bad Americanism." -Black Like Me
Ryan Bank O/ Disco Inferno !!
ax...@earthlink.net /\ Burn, baby burn!!!
Laguna Niguel, CA /> Disco all night!
Ingo Warnke
Noah (n_he...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: > From what I read somewhere, a Dark Ritual can be counterspelled if you
: > want to burn the mana and use the card. But the person who played the
: > Dark Ritual gets the mana faster than an interrupt, so he still gets the
: > mana despite the successful counterspell.
: This is correct, afaik. This means you can arcane your own dark ritual
: to basically change 1 blue mana into one black mana and draw 3 cards.
: Feels just like an ancestral!
This is not correct. Mana Sources can't be countered by spells because
they simply don't have an 'interrupt window' during which Counterspells are
cast. This disallows wasting a Counterspell on a Dark Ritual when you are
under a Black Vise or using Arcane Denial on it to draw 3 cards.
However, this is not the only way something can be countered. There are also
some triggered abilities that counter spells under certain circumstances.
Nether Void and Bazaar of Wonders are examples. In this case, the trigger *is*
set. With non-mana source spells this trigger goes off before the 'interrupt
window' for the spell opens.
But mana source spells happen as one indivisible block. So while the trigger
is set, it will go off only *after* the mana source spell has resolved,
at which time it is too late to counter it. But the effect happens, so you
can ,if you want, pay 3 to Nether Void. Tom gave an example where you had
colorless mana in your mana pool but wanted to pump Vampire Bats. If you
play the Dark Ritual, you can pay the 3 to the Nether Void after the Dark
Ritual resolved, to get rid if the unwanted colorless mana.
Ingo Warnke
: That was sarcasm.
Linda Marshall
NO! YOu cant counter it at all!
it cant fizzle because it had no
target for it to be cast at at all.
Linda Marshall
Nope, doesn't work that way...
Giant Peach
Dark Ritual is a Mana Source
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
||"Who is more foolish, the Fool or the fool that follows him?"||
|| -General Ben (Obi-wan) Kenobi ||
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
EmberMage5
No, you can not counter a ritual. just like your opponent can still tap
mana under the influence of abeyence. besides, why dont you just counter
the spell they cast with the ritual?????????????
งเrs
EmberMage5 wrote:
>
> No, you can not counter a ritual.
Yes, you can. It just doesn't do anything. (unless you arcane denial
your
own ritual. Then you change BU1 into BBB, and draw 3 cards. Ancestral
recall in T2!!!)
I may be wrong on this, I just seem to remember it this way..
Your score: 0/1
> just like your opponent can still tap
> mana under the influence of abeyence.
No, they can't. tapping land for mana has an activation cost, tapping.
Abeyance prevents announcement of tapping.
> besides, why dont you just counter
> the spell they cast with the ritual?????????????
Why can't they cast multiple spells with the ritual?
(3 black vises is my favorite.)
Or use it to pump a special ability?
Stop being so limited in your thinking. Ritual has MANY uses. In fact,
it can be used every way land can, not just for spells.
งเrs
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Morgan Lewis
DTR1XTER wrote:
>
> any spell can be countered
Correction: any non-Mana Source spell can be countered. Mana Sources
cannot, because they are faster than interrupts and resolve before the
interrupt can be played. Page 44, 5th ed: "Mana Sources are played,
successfully cast, and resolved in one timing step; there's no
opportunity to interrupt them, for example." Now, is everyone
satisfied? Dark Ritual is a Mana Source, ergo, it cannot be interrupted
or countered. You can't even really make a serious try at it; your
interrupt wouldn't have a target because the Dark Ritual would already
have resolved before you got the chance to announce it.
I hope that little bit of manual-quoting is sufficient to answer
everyone's questions about this.
Morgan
DTR1XTER
any spell can be countered
Mana Flair
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO
NONONONONONONONONONONONONO
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO
NONONONONONONONONONONONONO
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO
NONONONONONONONONONONONONO
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONON
ONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONON
ONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONON
ONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONON
ONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONON
ONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO
btw, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO COUNTER THE RITUAL? COUNTER THE SPELL...
Well, that's just me I guess...Man, I have to lay off that caffine,
whew.,.,
Manaflair...
Feel the synergy of power rushing through your veins. Don't get burned; Mana isn't for the week of heart. You've gotta have a flair for it; Wield it; Then when the Mana Flares up, release it....
Scribe
>> No, you can not counter a [dark] ritual.
>Yes, you can. It just doesn't do anything.
Hmm...I seem to remember something from the rulebook...
"Mana sources cannot be interrupted like other announced
spells and abilities can." [Mirage Page 8]
I think that says pretty clearly that a Dark Ritual cannot
be countered.
-Scribe
Alisdair Jorgensen
In article <33BC43...@earthlink.net>,
sarsp...@earthlink.net (งเrs) wrote:
> EmberMage5 wrote:
> >
> > No, you can not counter a ritual.
>
> Yes, you can. It just doesn't do anything. (unless you arcane denial
> your
> own ritual. Then you change BU1 into BBB, and draw 3 cards. Ancestral
> recall in T2!!!)
>
> I may be wrong on this, I just seem to remember it this way..
>
> Your score: 0/1
If I get this right, you're not actually talking about countering the
ritual, you're talking about targetting it with a counterspell- You're
saying you can target a ritual with a counterspell, but it fizzles due
to lack of legal target- This would also imply that you don't get to draw
the cards from the Arcane Denial, as the Arcane Denial did not successfully
resolve- 'If all targetted effects of a spell fail, any non-targetted
effects also fail'
It's irrelevant anyway- You cannot even target the ritual with a counterspell
as a counterspell must target a spell being cast- before it's announced is
too early, and once it's successfully cast, it's too late- There's no window
of opportunity inbetween casting and being successfully cast when you're
dealing with mana sources. At least not for interrupt speed effects.
Flynn
Warrl kyree Tale'sedrin
Scribe wrote in rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy:
>
>
>>> No, you can not counter a [dark] ritual.
>
>>Yes, you can. It just doesn't do anything.
>
>Hmm...I seem to remember something from the rulebook...
>
>"Mana sources cannot be interrupted like other announced
>spells and abilities can." [Mirage Page 8]
>
>I think that says pretty clearly that a Dark Ritual cannot
>be countered.
Any counter is an interrupt.
Mana sources, including Dark Ritual, are too fast -- there isn't time
to ANNOUNCE the interrupt. By the time you finish announcing it, the
mana source has resolved, there's nothing happening, and you can't
legally play an interrupt.
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Selena
งเrs <sarsp...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
<33BC43...@earthlink.net>...
> EmberMage5 wrote:
> >
> > No, you can not counter a ritual.
>
> Yes, you can. It just doesn't do anything. (unless you arcane denial
> your
> own ritual. Then you change BU1 into BBB, and draw 3 cards. Ancestral
> recall in T2!!!)
>
> I may be wrong on this, I just seem to remember it this way..
YOU CAN NEVER COUNTER DARK RITUAL IT IS A MANA SOURCE!
GEEZ!
ka...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
EmberMage5 (ember...@aol.com) wrote:
: No, you can not counter a ritual. just like your opponent can still tap
: mana under the influence of abeyence. besides, why dont you just counter
: the spell they cast with the ritual?????????????
Untrue, on the abeyance part; he can't activate the land, regardless of
how fast it happens.
--
In chaos all things are possible.
You don't know me. No one knows me.
I can be reached at ka...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
Warrl kyree Tale'sedrin
ka...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca () wrote in
rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy:
>EmberMage5 (ember...@aol.com) wrote:
>: No, you can not counter a ritual. just like your opponent can still tap
>: mana under the influence of abeyence. besides, why dont you just counter
>: the spell they cast with the ritual?????????????
>
>Untrue, on the abeyance part; he can't activate the land, regardless of
>how fast it happens.
He can tap all the lands he likes *while* you are *casting* the
abeyance, but not once it has resolved.
Don Bennett
dtr1...@aol.com (DTR1XTER) writes:
>any spell can be countered
except a mana source.
--
You can't go home again, unless you set $HOME.--------------------------------
-------------------------------Finger d...@tera.engr.mun.ca for PGP Public Key.
Don Bennett C[ ]~~~ Electrical Engineering -- Class of '99
CC0041, TIP#318 [_] Email: d...@engr.mun.ca
Luskan
Morgan Lewis wrote:
>
> DTR1XTER wrote:
> >
> > any spell can be countered
>
I want to know why would you counter a Dark Ritual? Just counter what
comes after it. 2 for 1, sounds like card advantage to me.
JMHO
Jeff
David Swasey
Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy: 5-Jul-97
Re: can dark ritual be coun.. by Lus...@king.igs.net
> comes after it. 2 for 1, sounds like card advantage to me.
> JMHO
>
> Jeff
The simplest answer is they will use the black mana for activation
costs -- such as pumping a pump knight more than you expected. You
may have thought they only had 3 mana, but now they have 5 and first
strike the air elemental to death.
David Buchanan
Luskan <lus...@king.igs.net> wrote in article
<33BEEF...@king.igs.net>...
:
: I want to know why would you counter a Dark Ritual? Just counter what
: comes after it. 2 for 1, sounds like card advantage to me.
: JMHO
You've obviously never met a Songs of the Damned Frozen Shade deck...
You can do things with mana other than casting spells, ya know.
DDB
Travis Hall
Luskan (lus...@king.igs.net) wrote:
:
: I want to know why would you counter a Dark Ritual? Just counter what
: comes after it. 2 for 1, sounds like card advantage to me.
I have Spell Blast in hand and only two mana available, one of them blue.
He casts DR, and has two land left uptapped. I just know a Sengir Vampire
is about to hit the table, and I can't afford to let that happen. Card
advantage be damned, I'm gonna counter that Ritual.
--
Why is it that when I do finally get around to creating a .sig file, I
can't think of a single witty thing to say in it?
The Wraith
Ingo Warnke
EmberMage5 (ember...@aol.com) wrote:
: No, you can not counter a ritual. just like your opponent can still tap
: mana under the influence of abeyence. besides, why dont you just counter
: the spell they cast with the ritual?????????????
You are correct that one can't counter a Dark Ritual.
You are incorrect that somebody can tap lands for mana under
Abeyance. This is an ability with an activation cost, so it
can not be announced, period. The fact that if it could be
announced there is no way to stop it is irrelevant.
Ingo Warnke
Selwyn Hope
>besides, why dont you just counter the spell they cast with the ritual?
ok, say they are under the influence of a black vice.
obviously you want them to keep as many cards in hand as possible.
therefore if you could stop the dark ritual, you are also probably
stopping another 1 or 2 spells.
But now the point is moot, 'cause Dark Ritual is a mana source and
cannot be countered anyway
SJ
MICHAEL ANTHONY BOTTOS
>I want to know why would you counter a Dark Ritual? Just counter what
>comes after it. 2 for 1, sounds like card advantage to me.
>JMHO
>Jeff
Your opponent might be casting two or three spells with it (such as three
unholy strengths)
Your opponent might be activating a creature or artifact. (Frozen Shade, Rod
of Ruin...)
They might have already tapped some land or a sol ring, and if you counter
the dark ritual, you force mana burn (It happened to me!)
HOWEVER, I would generally wait to see what they did with it, unless it was
obviously one of the above.
greggory james gargano
I could have sworn under the new rules, you couldn't counter a mana
source because it happens faster than an interupt!?
******************************************************************************
This message is brought to you by:
Gregg Gargano
http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~gargano
gar...@uiuc.edu
******************************************************************************
Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa
In rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy greggory james gargano thrust upon the world:
-| > HOWEVER, I would generally wait to see what they did with it, unless it was
-| > obviously one of the above.
-| I could have sworn under the new rules, you couldn't counter a mana
-| source because it happens faster than an interupt!?
You absolutely, positively, CAN NOT counter or otherwise effect, react
to, or touch a mana source. This includes dark ritual, burnt offering,
songs of the damned, and sacrifice.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Adam M. Beal be...@uiuc.edu|
| www.cen.uiuc.edu/~beal |
| President, Sons of Kosh Kosh Lives!!|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ROHAN118
But Dark Ritual is a spell, so why can't it be countered? And why do you
say it's a mana source? Unlike some other cards, it doesn't say to play
Dark Ritual as a mana source.
Travis Hall
greggory james gargano (gar...@students.uiuc.edu) wrote:
:
: I could have sworn under the new rules, you couldn't counter a mana
: source because it happens faster than an interupt!?
Yes, but the question was, why would you if you could? And remember, those
are new rules. Under 4th Edition and previous rules, Dark Ritual could be
countered. It is entirely possible that there are some people out there
who still play under the older rules. (Obviously not of sanctioned
tournaments, of course.)
John R. Pearcey
ROHAN118 (roha...@aol.com) wrote:
: But Dark Ritual is a spell, so why can't it be countered? And why do you
Hyppy (mhowell)
ROHAN118 wrote:
>
> But Dark Ritual is a spell, so why can't it be countered? And why do you
> say it's a mana source? Unlike some other cards, it doesn't say to play
> Dark Ritual as a mana source.
Their called Erratas, Clarifications, Reversals, and new Editions. look
into
them, and then bitch and moan that you never heard something!
Hmmm . . . Wait . . .
I'm sorry, I shouldn't expect so much out of a Newbie AND a AOLamer.
Hyppy
Ronin
On 10 Jul 1997 10:56:35 GMT, ka...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca () wrote:
>ROHAN118 (roha...@aol.com) wrote:
>: But Dark Ritual is a spell, so why can't it be countered? And why do you
>: say it's a mana source? Unlike some other cards, it doesn't say to play
>: Dark Ritual as a mana source.
>
>In the Mirage version, Dark Ritual is a spell of _type_ Mana Source (where
>type refers to things like Instant, Sorcery etc.)
>Mana Source spells and effects resolve as soon as they're announced, so by
>the time you get around to using any interrupt (as all countering effects
>are) it's already resolved and in the graveyard. Thus, no target.
>
>--
>In chaos all things are possible.
>You don't know me. No one knows me.
>
> I can be reached at ka...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
I have not been really up to date with the rules of WoTC, which by the
way do not always make sense. However, it seems really riduculous and
unreasonable, which is not out of character for WoTC, to have a spell
which cannot be countered. How can something be resolved when it is
annouced, it defies logic and reasoning? Wasn't Magic suppose to be an
interactive game between 2 or more players? With spells like that,
that surely brings up the level of interaction between the players.
Don't hold me for any ruling or anything like that, but if it is a
rule that Dark Rituals cannot be countered then count me as one who
thinks that the rule is a moronic one.
ka...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
Schala
> ROHAN118 wrote:
> >
> > But Dark Ritual is a spell, so why can't it be countered? And why do you
> > say it's a mana source? Unlike some other cards, it doesn't say to play
> > Dark Ritual as a mana source.
>
Heck, don't blame us. We only play the game, we don't make it. WotC just
decided to make all mana-producing spells and abilities fall into a
category called "mana source" (unless, of course, the card specifically
says something else), and uncounterable, at that. The rules saying this
are found in the Mirage instruction book, where the first "mana source"
cards appear. I guess it's to prevent things like playing Rust when your
opponent activates something like a Diamond. Oh well...=/
The way to meet your fate
is to try your hardest to avoid it.
---
Wilma Jandoc aka Enya | "Who would've thought that 'a little
jan...@hawaii.edu, en...@ohana.com | squall' would turn into Hurricane
nabiki...@geocities.com | Kuno so quickly?!"
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~jandoc | -Nabiki Tendo,
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/9800 | "Nihao My Concubine"
Travis Hall
ROHAN118 (roha...@aol.com) wrote:
: But Dark Ritual is a spell, so why can't it be countered? And why do you
: say it's a mana source? Unlike some other cards, it doesn't say to play
: Dark Ritual as a mana source.
If you've got the new version, it doesn't need to say that in the text
box. If you check the spell type, you will notice it says "Mana Source",
which indicates that it is a spell of type mana source, and all rules for
that type of spell/effect apply to it.
If you have pre-Mirage/5E DRs, it will say "Interrupt", but it should be
considered errataed to read "Mana Source".
And mana sources resolve before they can be interrupted, because they are
that quick. It doesn't matter whether the mana source happens to be a
spell, you still can't counter it.
Guest User
ROHAN118 wrote:
>
> But Dark Ritual is a spell, so why can't it be countered? And why do you
> say it's a mana source? Unlike some other cards, it doesn't say to play
> Dark Ritual as a mana source.
legal to interrupt,they've already resolved. :)
-Paul T.
Ronin
Now the question I have is if Nether Void is in play then can I cast
Dark Ritual and then use the three black mana elsewhere like paying
for the three colorless mana required because of the void? I know the
end result is the same whether the spell is countered or the mana used
to pay for itself but it would be interesting to know what the rules
say on this.
Traybor1
ROHAN118 wrote:
>
> But Dark Ritual is a spell, so why can't it be countered? And why do
you
> say it's a mana source? Unlike some other cards, it doesn't say to play
> Dark Ritual as a mana source.
All Dark Rituals have errata that makes their type "mana source." Mana
sources resolves before there's a chance for interrupts to be played, so
they can't be countered.
Traybor1
>> Now the question I have is if Nether Void is in play then can I cast
Dark Ritual and then use the three black mana elsewhere like paying
for the three colorless mana required because of the void? <<
Dark Ritual is a mana source and cannot be countered, even by a triggered
effect like Nether Void. So if you do cast Dark Ritual, you get the three
black mana and the Void never gets a chance to stop it.
The Happy Blues Man
In article <19970709231...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
roha...@aol.com (ROHAN118) wrote:
>But Dark Ritual is a spell, so why can't it be countered? And why do you
>say it's a mana source? Unlike some other cards, it doesn't say to play
>Dark Ritual as a mana source.
DR is a spell, true, but if you read the Mirage Version, it doesn't say
Interrupt as all other versions do... it says "Mana Source", which can't
be countered. And it doesn't need to say to play it as a mana source if
that's what type of spell it is.
--
Jonathan Yurek
The Happy Blues Man
"Open the door and step on in, You have no idea of what's about to begin."
Don Bennett
roha...@aol.com (ROHAN118) writes:
>But Dark Ritual is a spell, so why can't it be countered? And why do you
>say it's a mana source? Unlike some other cards, it doesn't say to play
>Dark Ritual as a mana source.
It's a Mana Source because the MI and 5E ones say 'Mana Source' as the type
of spell. You cannot counter mana sources because they are faster than
interrupts. Check page 44 in the 5E rule book.
Don
--
Man is this program ever a piece of SHIT! - Donald Neufeld--------------------
Kyle Anderson Felker
Travis Hall (zzt...@mailbox.uq.edu.au) wrote:
: Luskan (lus...@king.igs.net) wrote:
: :
: : I want to know why would you counter a Dark Ritual? Just counter what
: : comes after it. 2 for 1, sounds like card advantage to me.
: I have Spell Blast in hand and only two mana available, one of them blue.
: He casts DR, and has two land left uptapped. I just know a Sengir Vampire
: is about to hit the table, and I can't afford to let that happen. Card
: advantage be damned, I'm gonna counter that Ritual.
Which is fine, except that you can't.
From the D'angelo card rulings:
"As errata to the pre-mirage versions of the card, play the spell as a
mana source. The spell is actually errated to be a "mana source" and not
an "interrupt"."
From the rules text from the WOTC homepage:
"Mana sources cannot be interrupted like other announced spells and
abilities can. Abilities that trigger on their use take place after they
finish resolving."
It's kind of wierd, but that's a symptom of the 5th ed. rules and the way
they've reworked timing and interrupts.
--
---------------------------------------
Kyle Felker (kafe...@ocean.st.usm.edu)
"Boil, boil, toil and trouble
Fire burn and cauldron bubble!"
- Shakespeare, _Macbeth_
---------------------------------------
Kyle Anderson Felker
ROHAN118 (roha...@aol.com) wrote:
: But Dark Ritual is a spell, so why can't it be countered? And why do you
: say it's a mana source? Unlike some other cards, it doesn't say to play
The card errata does. All versions of Dark ritual have been errated to
read "mana source" rather than "interrupt". Since mana sources resolve
faster than interrupts, you can't interrupt a dark ritual, just like you
can't interrupt tapping a land for mana.
Kyle Anderson Felker
Ronin (gt0...@prism.gatech.edu) wrote:
: I have not been really up to date with the rules of WoTC, which by the
: way do not always make sense. However, it seems really riduculous and
: unreasonable, which is not out of character for WoTC, to have a spell
: which cannot be countered. How can something be resolved when it is
: annouced, it defies logic and reasoning? Wasn't Magic suppose to be an
: interactive game between 2 or more players? With spells like that,
: that surely brings up the level of interaction between the players.
: Don't hold me for any ruling or anything like that, but if it is a
: rule that Dark Rituals cannot be countered then count me as one who
: thinks that the rule is a moronic one.
*shrug* It's not like there are all that many mana-source spells out
there. There are lots of mana source creatures and artefacts, but I think
Dark ritual, Songs of the Dead, and one other whose name escapes me at the
moment are the only spells. It's not like there's suddenly a whole slew
of spells that can't be countered. In all probablity, You'll have a
chance to react to whatever your opponent does with the mana, so it's not
that big a deal.
Travis Hall
Schala (jan...@hawaii.edu) wrote:
:
: Heck, don't blame us. We only play the game, we don't make it. WotC just
: decided to make all mana-producing spells and abilities fall into a
: category called "mana source" (unless, of course, the card specifically
: says something else), and uncounterable, at that. The rules saying this
: are found in the Mirage instruction book, where the first "mana source"
: cards appear. I guess it's to prevent things like playing Rust when your
: opponent activates something like a Diamond. Oh well...=/
Really, I think the reason WotC introduced the Mana Source rules is to
make it easier to get around the problems with having to interrupt
everything over and over to get the mana for the response. With mana
source effects, you can just draw the mana whenever you need it for the
spell, and you don't have to worry about when the mana arrives, because
nothing can ever stop the mana source from working anyway. (Although, the
solution isn't entirely successful, because triggered and continuous
effects start to do strange things sometimes.) It's basically just another
attempt to remove timing problems.
Scott Little
ka...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:
>
> EmberMage5 (ember...@aol.com) wrote:
> : No, you can not counter a ritual. just like your opponent can still tap
> : the spell they cast with the ritual?????????????
>
> Untrue, on the abeyance part; he can't activate the land, regardless of
> how fast it happens.
Come on Kaos, you know better than that! Abayance dose not counter it,
it outlaws the activation of the land. If the person still had a black
mana in his mana pool, he could Still cast Dark Ritual under an
abayance!
Brent Bourgoine
On 9 Jul 1997 23:13:37 GMT, roha...@aol.com (ROHAN118) wrote:
>But Dark Ritual is a spell, so why can't it be countered? And why do you
>say it's a mana source? Unlike some other cards, it doesn't say to play
>Dark Ritual as a mana source.
1)Check out the Mirage/5th Dark Ritual...Spell type is: Mana Source.
=P
2)Check your Mirage/5th rrulebook (or the rules posted on WotC's site)
for the Mana Source rules.
3)Should make perfect sense now. If not, repeat steps 1-2 until it
does. =)
-=Brent=-
Lord Daroki
Mana Flair <mana...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970704045...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
<A whole lot of NOs deleted>
> btw, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO COUNTER THE RITUAL? COUNTER THE SPELL...
>
I can only think of one time where you'd want to counter the Dark Ritual
instead of the spell. Situation :
I have and island and a plains untapped.
Opponent has two Swamps untapped.
He plays Dark Ritual and puts out... an Agonizing Memories.
Damn, I only have a spell blast in hand.
If I could have countered the Rit, then the Memories wouldn't have gone
off.
(Damn, difficult to think of a T2 power cards for BB2 or B3 :)
> Well, that's just me I guess...Man, I have to lay off that caffine,
> whew.,.,
>
Yep, caffiene is good, but it kills your caps lock key...
> Manaflair...
> Feel the synergy of power rushing through your veins. Don't get
burned; Mana isn't for the week of heart. You've gotta have a flair for
it; Wield it; Then when the Mana Flares up, release it....
>
- Lord Daroki the Itchogunsa -
Travis Hall
Kyle Anderson Felker (kafe...@ocean.st.usm.edu) wrote:
: Travis Hall (zzt...@mailbox.uq.edu.au) wrote:
:
: : I have Spell Blast in hand and only two mana available, one of them blue.
: : He casts DR, and has two land left uptapped. I just know a Sengir Vampire
: : is about to hit the table, and I can't afford to let that happen. Card
: : advantage be damned, I'm gonna counter that Ritual.
:
: Which is fine, except that you can't.
Once again: I know Dark Ritual cannot be countered any more. However, the
question was asked, "Why would you counter Dark Ritual if you could?" (A
paraphrase, not an actual quote.) This is still a valid question
(especially since there are probably still cells of 4E players out there,
off the tournament circuit) and my response was still a valid response.
I go through this with some people here over and over again. Please, read
and understand the conversation before posting such inanity.
DustyRealm
yes
greggory james gargano
>
> yes
>
NO! NO! NO! It is a mana source!
Griffin
Ronin wrote:
>
> Now the question I have is if Nether Void is in play then can I cast
> Dark Ritual and then use the three black mana elsewhere like paying
> end result is the same whether the spell is countered or the mana used
> to pay for itself but it would be interesting to know what the rules
> say on this.
Sure you can- the Nether Void cannot counter the Dark Ritual, because it
is a mana source. I believe this very example was in one of the
Duelists. (Can't remember which.) So the three mana you have in you pool
can be used to pay for some other spell(that isn't a mana source.) BTW
if you need to know what the rules say check out D'Angelo's compiled
rulings on his home page.
S.L.Y.
Marcus Malden
DustyRealm <dusty...@aol.com>
> yes
yes means no for non-aol users ;-)
Voytek
Griffin wrote:
>
> Ronin wrote:
> >
> > Now the question I have is if Nether Void is in play then can I cast
> > Dark Ritual and then use the three black mana elsewhere like paying
> > for the three colorless mana required because of the void? I know the
> > end result is the same whether the spell is countered or the mana used
> > to pay for itself but it would be interesting to know what the rules
> > say on this.
>
> Sure you can- the Nether Void cannot counter the Dark Ritual, because it
> is a mana source. I believe this very example was in one of the
> Duelists.
YANQ: But if you use 4th Edition Dark Ritual isn't it treated as an
interrupt?
(YANQ: Yet Another Newbie Question)
Jason
> I could have sworn under the new rules, you couldn't counter a mana
> source because it happens faster than an interupt!?
this guy is right.
mana sources cannot be countered.
Jason.
--
Pheddagrif
no, you know that cool book that comes with your Mirage and 5th starter
why don't you find it and read it. what a concept =)
Pheldddgrif
Griffin
Voytek wrote:
>
> YANQ: But if you use 4th Edition Dark Ritual isn't it treated as an
> interrupt?
>
> (YANQ: Yet Another Newbie Question)
Not if your playing in a tournament, since the rules state that all
cards are to be played with their lastest wording.
S.L.Y.
David Graffius
In article <01bc90b2$368203c0$26ec...@rp11910.online-club.de>,
"Marcus Malden" <rp1...@online-club.de> wrote:
>
>
>DustyRealm <dusty...@aol.com>
>> yes
>
>yes means no for non-aol users ;-)
>
Juzzam
>Once again: I know Dark Ritual cannot be countered any more. However, the
>question was asked, "Why would you counter Dark Ritual if you could?"
Actually a Dark Ritual can be countered. However the ruling is that even
though it is countered, the mana comes so fast that the player who is Dark
Ritualling gets the mana before the counterspell takes effect. Why would
you want to Counterspell then? Well, if you had to reduce your hand size
because of a Black Vice or tap your mana because of a Power Surge or
something like that, then you could do it.
Ingo Warnke
Juzzam (juz...@aol.com) wrote:
: >Once again: I know Dark Ritual cannot be countered any more. However, the
: >question was asked, "Why would you counter Dark Ritual if you could?"
: Actually a Dark Ritual can be countered.
You can not try to counter a Dark Ritual with a Counterspell.
Why? Mana source have a very tight timing that simply forbids playing anything
else in between announcment and resolution.
Ingo Warnke
Elizabeth
ya, but can counters be countered<g>?