Siren's Call and Festival combo question
Scov
My friend and I got into a pretty good dicussion about this one.
What's the call, if I play the Festival he can't attack this turn, but
then the Siren's Call says that anyone that can't attack this turn
dies. The timing of the casting can be done a few ways, but the effect
I'm looking for a solution to is the one where all his creture's bite
it. Tell me it's true!!!!
Jason Stratos Papadopoulos
:
: My friend and I got into a pretty good dicussion about this one.
Sorry; this one had me excited too. But Festival doesn't say "prevents
creatures from attacking" it says "player can't make an attack" (in so
many words). Siren's Call kills creatures who are prevented from attacking
(they're tapped or controller decides not to use them). Festival works
on the free will of the controller, not the creatures; at least that's
how it was explained to me. In short, it won't work.
jasonp
PS: try looking in rec.games.deckmaster for other opinions; I'm sure
lots of folks have asked this already. I'm not too sure myself.
Jason Stratos Papadopoulos
:
: My friend and I got into a pretty good dicussion about this one.
In regards to another response I posted, NIX IT!! the combo works.
My friends are going to LOVE this.
Letter from Tom Wylie in rec.games.deckmaster:
From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie)
Newsgroups: rec.games.deckmaster,rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules
Subject: Re: Festival/ Siren's Call
Date: 18 Jan 1995 01:28:00 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
Lines: 11
Thomas O'Neill <t...@csvax1.ucc.ie> wrote:
>I just want official confirmation that the Festival/Siren's Call combination
>still works, or to find out that this has changed.
The combination is still valid.
Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Jeremy Long
As far as I know this is true, all his creatures will die (except for walls).
I have done the same thing with the word of binding and sirens call.
It's a pretty nasty combination.
Another really nasty combo is an Uncle Istavon with lure and Vennom.
Jeremy
lward
<Pine.A32.3.91.950126...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Jeremy Long <jl...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> writes:
Can you use Island Sancuary and Siren's Call in a similar manner, at
least against non-flying creatures anyway?
Wordman
Jason C Reynolds
(for killing all your opponents creatures). Festival is an instant that
must be cast during your opponents upkeep (if I'm not mistaken).
Festival makes it so your opponent can't declare an attack. Siren's Call
forces your opponent to attack with everything that can (if they can't
they die). I believe that the Festival does just that. Goodbye critters.
Later,
David K
Tom Robinson
Sure is. Here's an extract from the official The Dark Rulings:
Festival:
Since this stops your opponent from declaring an attack, it can be very
effectively used with Siren's Call to kill all your opponent's creatures.
[bethmo 8/10/94]
--
8 Bare When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like vuU Uuv
o-+-o Foot my grandfather - not screaming in terror like his
< > Guru passengers -- Jim Larkin
Shawn Larson
still before their attack, are they allowed to state that they already took
their attack phase and that they chose not to attack (and that i played the
card too late)?
We've got $5 running on this one.
Respond via e-mail if possible.
Aaron Yacov Swersky
No. You're always allowed to play cards during your opponent's turn that
are specific to a point in time if it can still be considered at that
point. For example, if your opponent had declared an attack, I'd say that
it was too late. But you can declare that since your opponent decided not
to attack AFTER you said you were playing Siren's Call, you were actually
on time. :)
Alexander Shearer
Actually, you can cast Siren's call when your opponent declares their
attack, in response to the declaration. Instants in response to things
are wonderful...
Chris Dollin
If I cast Siren's Call on an opponent, say, a little bit into their turn
but still before their attack, are they allowed to state that they already
took their attack phase and that they chose not to attack (and that i
played the card too late)?
No.
If they haven't declared an attack, they haven't ``chosen not to attack''.
Broadly speaking, it's *impossible* for them to prevent you from Calling
them by fiddling around with attack timing. [They could counterspell the
Call, of course.] If they haven't attacked, you can play the Call; there
is no ``silent decline''. If they *declare* an attack, you can back them
up and play the Call, since they (officially) announce their *intention*
to attack, you get a chance to use fast effects, and *then* they declare
their attackers (any number, including zero, subject to oter cards, eg
the aforementioned Call).
--
Regards, | ``"I can't suit myself," said Weinbaum, a little petulantly.
Kers. | "I work for the Government".'' - Blish, "The Quincunx of Time".
Shawn Larson
>sgla...@students.wisc.edu (Shawn Larson) writes:
> If I cast Siren's Call on an opponent, say, a little bit into their turn
> but still before their attack, are they allowed to state that they already
> took their attack phase and that they chose not to attack (and that i
> played the card too late)?
>No.
>If they haven't declared an attack, they haven't ``chosen not to attack''.
>Broadly speaking, it's *impossible* for them to prevent you from Calling
>them by fiddling around with attack timing. [They could counterspell the
>Call, of course.] If they haven't attacked, you can play the Call; there
>is no ``silent decline''. If they *declare* an attack, you can back them
>up and play the Call, since they (officially) announce their *intention*
>to attack, you get a chance to use fast effects, and *then* they declare
>their attackers (any number, including zero, subject to oter cards, eg
>the aforementioned Call).
>--
What if an opponent begins their turn, plays a land (or whatever),
states "MY ATTACK PHASE IS OVER", and continues to do whatever. Am I still
allowed to play Siren's Call?
Tom Christiansen
sgla...@students.wisc.edu (Shawn Larson) writes:
:What if an opponent begins their turn, plays a land (or whatever),
:states "MY ATTACK PHASE IS OVER", and continues to do whatever. Am I still
:allowed to play Siren's Call?
They didn't have an attack phase, so it can't be over. They must
say "I'm about to change state from my main phase into my attack
phase" for this to happen, at which time you can Call them. There's
no way they can avoid gettin Called.
--tom
--
Tom Christiansen Perl Consultant, Gamer, Hiker tch...@mox.perl.com
I am Blue, Master of Metamagic. Look upon me ye mighty and despair: you have
nothing I cannot counter, take, copy, hack, sleight, or merely return to your
hand. What is mine is mine; what is yours is mine. The game is mine.
Chris Dollin
What if an opponent begins their turn, plays a land (or whatever),
states "MY ATTACK PHASE IS OVER", and continues to do whatever. Am I still
allowed to play Siren's Call?
They can't do that. Their attack phase can't be over until it's begun.
They are *obliged* to announce their attack. What's more, they can't
just say ``My Swarming Bees attack''; they should say, ``I'm going to
attack. Any fast effects?''. You then have a chance to play Siren's
Call.
The itty-bitty rulebook doesn't make this clear, although there are
hints (under ``timing'' and ``responding to spells''). The Pocket
Players Guide is, however, quite explicit (page 72).
Bill Stripp
>states "MY ATTACK PHASE IS OVER", and continues to do whatever. Am I still
>allowed to play Siren's Call?
First of all they can't just call an attack phase and be done with it. They
need to actually declare attacks to start the attack phase. No attacks, no
attack phase.
Secondly, your siren's call is played at the speed of an instant. That means
if your opponent played a land and claimed that he was done (thus passing the
attack phase) you are allowed to respond with fast effects. Thus he would
claim he was done and you would say "before you are done I will play my
Siren's Call".
Even if your opponent knew that you had a Siren's call and decided that he
should declare his attack and use only one creature, you could back him up as
soon as he enters a new phase and play your siren's call.
Example:
Player 1 plays a land and declares one of his creatures attacks
Player 2 can stop player 1 and back up to before the attack is declared and
play the siren's call.
Bill
Paul M Brinegar
>>What if an opponent begins their turn, plays a land (or whatever),
>>states "MY ATTACK PHASE IS OVER", and continues to do whatever. Am I still
>>allowed to play Siren's Call?
>
>First of all they can't just call an attack phase and be done with it. They
>need to actually declare attacks to start the attack phase. No attacks, no
>attack phase.
Hang on a second there, Bill.
The first step in attacking someone is simply the declaration of attack.
In other words, you say "I'm attacking you." At this point, you're right,
the opponent could respond to the declaration of attack by saying
"hang on a sec... I want to cast siren's call."
If the opponent chooses not to do anything in response to your
declaration, you then choose which of your creatures will be involved in
the attack. You signify this by tapping them.
"Note that is is legal to declare an attack and then attack with no
creatures!" Pocket Player's Guide, Page 73.
The purpose of attacking with nothing is to force the emptying of
mana pools, and to cause the opponent to cast any pre-attack spells.
Once this 'null-attack' is finished, the opponent can no longer
use any spells/effects that must be used before combat.
In answer to the original question, your opponent spoke too quickly.
You have the option of backing him up to the point just before his
null-attack, and cast Siren's Call.
I try to make sure that during each and every turn I declare an
attack, even if I have no creatures at all, simply to force the
pre-attack spells and emptying of mana pools.
(Of course, declaraing an attack with no creatures in play makes for
some strange looks, but I get those anyways *grin*)
PMB