Ways to abuse Underworld Dreams
Totto
I just got my hands on an english Underworld Dreams (from Legends).
This card obviously has a very strong effect.
I was wondering what is the best way to "break" this card (well, it got
restricted, so someone must have been playing some mean decks with it,
or something?)...
I am thinking something with cheap black weenies (Hyppie, Black knight,
Pump Knight), discard (Hymn, duress, stupor), megrim and
=> prosperity <= .. :)
Does anyone have any good Dream decks to share, any efficient ways to
abuse the card, or any hints to how it is best utilized?
Note: The deck is for casual play (as of yet). This is because, without
access to things like the Power 9, or actually almost any card previous
to revised or the dual lands, I do not expect to be able to make
anything type 1 competetive.
However, my deck should certainly be competitive in my local friendly
(?) casual "tournaments" where mind twist and channel show up every few
days, and recurring nightmare is the current big thing. :)
Totto
Stewart Potter
The obviously low speed grind is to use Howling Mines to cause an extra
card draw every turn. But use something like Time Spiral, the opponent will
take seven damage, follow that with Stormseeker or Sudden Impact (7 more
damage). If you have a Megrim, follow that with a Hymm (6 more damage) ...
twenty points. Viola ...
Of course that's a nasty play in 3 colors. Windfall would be awesome with
Underworld Dreams AND Megrim in play ...
If you Time Spiral (seven damage due to draw) , Sudden Impact (seven cards
in hand), Winds of Change (drop seven draw seven, seven more points) ... 21
damage. Obviously, it goes well with Stroke or Braingeyser.
------
Stu
Totto <t...@ii.spam.uib.block.no> wrote in article
<36B0B6...@ii.spam.uib.block.no>...
Parallax
wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I just got my hands on an english Underworld Dreams (from Legends).
>This card obviously has a very strong effect.
>I was wondering what is the best way to "break" this card (well, it got
>restricted, so someone must have been playing some mean decks with it,
>or something?)...
>I am thinking something with cheap black weenies (Hyppie, Black knight,
>Pump Knight), discard (Hymn, duress, stupor), megrim and
> => prosperity <= .. :)
>
>Does anyone have any good Dream decks to share, any efficient ways to
>abuse the card, or any hints to how it is best utilized?
OK, if you have 'em, here are some OK ones:
(These are one time things that force draw 1, or maybe a couple cards)
Xira Arien
Martyr's Cry (If playing against white, or if you can change the text)
Winter Sky
Lord of Tresserhorn
Sapphire Charm
Inspiration
Horn of Greed
Bargain
Forget
And some better ones: (Force draw 3 or more cards)
Ancestral Recall.
Fatal Lore
And great ones: (Force draw lots of cards, or draw extra cards every
turn)
Anvil of Bogardan
Timetwister
Braingeyser
Wheel of Fortune
Diminishing Returns
Malignant Growth
Teferi's Puzzle Box
Howling Mine
Prosperity
Stroke of Genius
Time Spiral
Windfall
Hope this helps,
--Parallax
Tracey Steele
<t...@ii.spam.uib.block.no> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I just got my hands on an english Underworld Dreams (from Legends).
>This card obviously has a very strong effect.
>I was wondering what is the best way to "break" this card (well, it got
>restricted, so someone must have been playing some mean decks with it,
>or something?)...
>I am thinking something with cheap black weenies (Hyppie, Black knight,
>Pump Knight), discard (Hymn, duress, stupor), megrim and
> => prosperity <= .. :)
>
>Does anyone have any good Dream decks to share, any efficient ways to
>abuse the card, or any hints to how it is best utilized?
Someone else mentioned this in a list, but I wanted to expand on it...
Teferi's Puzzle Box (Artifact, 4 to cast. During each player's draw phase,
that player counts the card in hand, and places those cards on the bottom
of deck, and then draws that many cards.)
Obviously, it's not perfect -- if the player has no cards in hand, it
doesn't do anyting, but combined with Howling Mine, it can create a
powerful damage engine. Plus, you can play with four of these and improve
your chances of finding your one U.D. I put together a deck with these
cards that I just loved back when Visions first came out -- it wasn't a
top level tournament deck, but it had the potential of beating just about
anything, and was a lot of fun to play. I backed up the combo with a ton
of counters and discard stuff.
Tracey Steele
Any Houston magic players out there? If so, drop me a line -- always
looking for playing partners!
--
---
Tracey Steele "Thou Art God." -- Robert A. Heinlein
va...@pdq.net "Who is John Galt?" -- Ayn Rand
Totto
>
> OK, if you have 'em, here are some OK ones:
Great, thanks for replying anyhow.. :)
> (These are one time things that force draw 1, or maybe a couple cards)
> Xira Arien
> Martyr's Cry (If playing against white, or if you can change the text)
> Winter Sky
> Lord of Tresserhorn
> Sapphire Charm
> Inspiration
> Horn of Greed
> Bargain
> Forget
Thanks.. actually don't have many of these thou..
> And some better ones: (Force draw 3 or more cards)
> Ancestral Recall.
Very fun.. but of course, I do not have 150 bucks.
> Fatal Lore
> And great ones: (Force draw lots of cards, or draw extra cards every
> turn)
> Anvil of Bogardan
Yes-I-Want-One-Of-These! It is one of my top hunt cards, for that
reason.
> Timetwister
> Braingeyser
> Wheel of Fortune
> Diminishing Returns
> Malignant Growth
> Teferi's Puzzle Box
> Howling Mine
> Prosperity
Hmm, this one I'll get - Card advantage for me and pain for you.. :)
> Stroke of Genius
> Time Spiral
> Windfall
Yeah.. this looks good. Didn't think of Tef's Puzzle Box. Don't have
most of these cards, but I'll get to work on it. (Anvil/Megrim combo is
evil, and it works nicely with Dreams as well)..
Btw, here is the preliminary outline of the deck, feel free to suggest:
Bad Dreams v 0.01a1:
4 Hyppie
4 Black Knight
4 Pump Knight
2 Priest of gix
2 Nekrataal
4 Duress
4 Stupor
4 Hymn
1 Pox
4 Dark Ritual
1 Dreams
3 Megrim
2 Anvil
4 Arcane Denial
2 Impulse
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Braingeyser
1 Prosperity
1 or 2 Drain Life
And some land (I think, with rituals and 2 priest of gix, a relatively
low land count should work. I need to get some underground seas thou..)
Suggestions and improvements would be looked upon gratefully. I still
lack a few of these cards, but I am working on that bit.. :)
Totto - thinks underworld dreams is a cool card
Parallax
wrote:
>Btw, here is the preliminary outline of the deck, feel free to suggest:
>
>Bad Dreams v 0.01a1:
>4 Hyppie
>4 Black Knight
>4 Pump Knight
>2 Priest of gix
>2 Nekrataal
>
>4 Duress
>4 Stupor
>4 Hymn
>1 Pox
>
>4 Dark Ritual
>1 Dreams
>3 Megrim
>2 Anvil
>
>4 Arcane Denial
>2 Impulse
>1 Demonic Tutor
>1 Braingeyser
>1 Prosperity
>
>1 or 2 Drain Life
I was playing around with 40-card first turn kill ideas. How's this:
4 Lotus Petal (I don't have the bucks for the real thing either :)
4 Dark Ritual
1 Underworld Dream
4 Winds of Change
4 Dual land, mountain/swamp (Don't know the name)
Some Swamps
Some Mountains.
Anything else, probably small effective creatures to hold him off
until you get UD.
God draw:
1 lotus petal
1 Dark Ritual
1 Underworld Dreams
1 Winds of Change
1 land (Or another Lotus Petal)
Anything else, preferably 2 more lotus petals.
Lay your black mana land/lotus petal.
Tap for black.
Dark Ritual for 3.
Lay Underworld Dreams.
Lay your red mana land/lotus petal.
Lay any other lotus petals you have.
Tap for red.
Winds of Change
There's 7 damage.
With any luck at all, you'll get another WoC, and a Lotus Petal, or,
you have one left on the board.
Lay all lotus petals you drew.
Tap for red.
Winds of Change.
7 more damage.
If you can repeat one more time, you win on the first turn.
Each time, the chances of drawing a petal or a WoC go down, because
you're using them up. There may be a better strategy, dunno.
Even better, Megrim, UD, and Shocker, they're cheaper, but you can't
get a first turn kill.
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Megrim
1 Underworld Dream
4 Shocker
4 Duals
A few more creatures, Dwarven Nomad comes to mind.
Maybe a Black Vise or two.
Some Swamps/Mountains
God Draw:
1 Land
1 Lotus Petal
2 Dark Rituals
1 Megrim
1 Shockers
1 Black Vise
Lay land and lotus petal.
Tap for black, dark ritual, dark rituak, 5 black in mana pool.
Lay Megrim, 2 black in mana pool
Tap for red and colorless, lay a shocker.
1 mana left, cast black vise.
Hand empty, say 'Done'
When his turn starts, he gets 3 damage.
Next turn you do 8 damage, unless they lay a creature.
Next turn, you do 8 more, game over, unless they lay a creature.
Once you get a Nomad out, your shocker is unblockable.
--Parallax
Parallax
>
>Next turn you do 8 damage, unless they lay a creature.
>
>Next turn, you do 8 more, game over, unless they lay a creature.
OK, my math sucks. 3+8+8=19 :)
But it actually works, like this:
His first turn, he gets 3 damage.
Your Second turn, you do 8 damage, unless they lay a creature.
His Second turn, he gets 3 damage.
Your Third turn, you do 8 more.
Game over.
3+8+3+8=22 :)
--Parallax
Raj Seshadri
I think that a land destruction/mana denial or stasis deck would better fit the
damage/draw scheme that underworld dreams causes. Also, back in the day, it was
used as a kill card in a very Weissman-like control deck. You get to do nothing,
I slowly kill you (I play Dreams, 20 turns later you die :)
Discard is not that bad an idea, tho. I never got it to work :)
> Btw, here is the preliminary outline of the deck, feel free to suggest:
>
> Bad Dreams v 0.01a1:
> 4 Hyppie
> 4 Black Knight
> 4 Pump Knight
> 2 Priest of gix
> 2 Nekrataal
>
> 4 Duress
> 4 Stupor
> 4 Hymn
> 1 Pox
>
> 4 Dark Ritual
> 1 Dreams
> 3 Megrim
> 2 Anvil
>
> 4 Arcane Denial
> 2 Impulse
> 1 Demonic Tutor
> 1 Braingeyser
> 1 Prosperity
>
> 1 or 2 Drain Life
>
Andrew Vance
> On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:12:40 +0100, Totto <t...@ii.spam.uib.block.no>
> wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >I just got my hands on an english Underworld Dreams (from Legends).
> >This card obviously has a very strong effect.
> >I was wondering what is the best way to "break" this card (well, it
> got
> >restricted, so someone must have been playing some mean decks with
> it,
> >or something?)...
> >I am thinking something with cheap black weenies (Hyppie, Black
> knight,
> >Pump Knight), discard (Hymn, duress, stupor), megrim and
> > => prosperity <= .. :)
> >
> >Does anyone have any good Dream decks to share, any efficient ways to
>
> >abuse the card, or any hints to how it is best utilized?
>
> OK, if you have 'em, here are some OK ones:
> (These are one time things that force draw 1, or maybe a couple cards)
>
> Xira Arien
> Martyr's Cry (If playing against white, or if you can change the text)
>
> Winter Sky
> Lord of Tresserhorn
> Sapphire Charm
> Inspiration
> Horn of Greed
> Bargain
> Forget
>
I wouldn't touch most of these with a fifty foot poll - they're just to
slow and duddy
> And some better ones: (Force draw 3 or more cards)
> Ancestral Recall.
> Fatal Lore
>
> And great ones: (Force draw lots of cards, or draw extra cards every
> turn)
> Anvil of Bogardan
> Timetwister
> Braingeyser
> Wheel of Fortune
All fabu - except maybe the anvil although I suppose it works if you're
playing with a megrim.
> Diminishing Returns
Not worth it - removing ten cards from the game is VV risky, and I
believe diminishing returns says 'MAY draw up to seven' - eg not a
certain dammager.
> Malignant Growth
> Teferi's Puzzle Box
In my experience with an underworld deck, both of these are
duds.Malignant growth is simply to slow for the amount of dammage it
does - an underworld deck should kill the opponent in two-three turns,
tops, from the time the underworld hits the table. The puzzle box - I'm
not 100% sure why this doesn't work, but in my experience, it simply
allows to much searching through there deck for the cards they need.
> Howling Mine
> Prosperity
> Stroke of Genius
> Time Spiral
> Windfall
>
Also, not 100% on theme but worth think about - add a stormbind (or
anywthing with similar effect) - you're going to be drawing heavily as
well, and the bind makes a very nice finish (not on theme, but hell, it
works). Also, add a vise, and an ivory tower - with all this card
drawing, you're both going to be effected by them.
Ah, the underworld deck - still my favourite, after all this time... :)
> Hope this helps,
>
> --Parallax
RaeMowse
Cards are put into my hand directly instead of drawn, so no damage from
Underworld. Necropotence and Underworld cost BBB each.
Necropotence, Underworld Dreams, and Teferi's Puzzle Box all make for very good
combinations indeed. And it would play like a nightmare.
Turn 1-Swamp Ritual, Necro, pay 3 life, go.
Turn 2-Swamp Ritual, Underworld Dreams, Mox/Lotus Petal, The Rack, pay 5 life,
go.
Turn 3-Swamp, Teferi's Puzzle Box, conceeding?
Rainman
I don't tell people what they can and can't do because I want to win; I tell
them in order to help them become better players. So if they beat me on level
ground, then I know I've done my job. That's what Magic should be all about.
Thomas Meyer
> Cards are put into my hand directly instead of drawn, so no damage from
> Underworld. Necropotence and Underworld cost BBB each.
>
Underworld Dreams reads:
Underworld Dreams does 1 damage to opponent for each card he or she
draws.
The controller does not take damage from the U.D., so skipping your draw
phase isn't an advantage for this reason.
I've had fun with Underworld Dreams in decks with the Anvil of Bogardan
along with:
Megrim
Teferi's Puzzle Box
Chains of Mephistolpholes (but be ready with a copy of the rulings and
errata...)
The Rack
Throw in Ensnaring Bridge and enough blue to protect the permanents on
the board.
Thomas Meyer
RaeMowse
>Underworld Dreams reads:
>
>Underworld Dreams does 1 damage to opponent for each card he or she
>draws.
Hmmm... [thumbing through MoxPerl] Okay, you're right. I could have sworn it
said "...to each player..."
Also noted something else in the rulings section:
It triggers only once (and causes only one damage prevention step) when
multiple cards are drawn due to a single spell/ability's effect. The single
triggering will do X damage if X cards are drawn. [D'Angelo 10/13/97] See Rule
A.8.9.
So, assuming I read this right, you will take 12 damage from a 12 point
Braingeyser, but you would only take one from a Timetwister?
Rainman
I may be a rules guru, but I'm just a wee one.
Andrew Vance
Why? It will do X when X cards are drawn ie 7 for twisters 7. It simply
means that EG one CoP:black will prevent all the dammage from aeither
with one mana.
Goku00dbz
>(These are one time things that force draw 1, or maybe a couple cards)
>Xira Arien
>Martyr's Cry (If playing against white, or if you can change the text)
>Winter Sky
>Lord of Tresserhorn
>Sapphire Charm
>Inspiration
>Horn of Greed
>Bargain
>Forget
>
>Ancestral Recall.
or you can cast ancestral recall and just colt your opponent
>Fatal Lore
>
>And great ones: (Force draw lots of cards, or draw extra cards every
>turn)
>Anvil of Bogardan
>Timetwister
>Braingeyser
or you can just fireball him/her and not give opponet a full hand
>Wheel of Fortune
>Diminishing Returns
>Malignant Growth
>Teferi's Puzzle Box
>Howling Mine
>Prosperity
>Stroke of Genius
see braingyser
>Time Spiral
>Windfall
>
>
the orginal version used land kill, vises the dream then timetwister and wheel
to do 7 damage and a multiple of 3 damage
-SSJ Goku
"Excuse me, has anyone seen my arm? You can't miss it, its green" -Raditz
RaeMowse
when I read that. I think I indivisualized the sentences; the X threw me off
for something different.
Thanks, Andrew Vance.
Rainman
A bit wiser than yesterday
Andrew Vance
> >OK, if you have 'em, here are some OK ones:
> >(These are one time things that force draw 1, or maybe a couple
> cards)
> >Xira Arien
> >Martyr's Cry (If playing against white, or if you can change the
> text)
> >Winter Sky
> >Lord of Tresserhorn
> >Sapphire Charm
> >Inspiration
> >Horn of Greed
> >Bargain
> >Forget
> >
> >And some better ones: (Force draw 3 or more cards)
> >Ancestral Recall.
>
> or you can cast ancestral recall and just colt your opponent
Wut? I presume you mean to cast it on yourself - well sure, but it does
make a mighty fine kill at times - if I get'em within range, why not
finish them with it?
> >Fatal Lore
> >
> >And great ones: (Force draw lots of cards, or draw extra cards every
> >turn)
> >Anvil of Bogardan
> >Timetwister
> >Braingeyser
>
> or you can just fireball him/her and not give opponet a full hand
Again, this is at times true - however, In my underworld deck, I use
Gyser and stroke, because (a) I can use it to finish an opponent by
underworlding or decking them, but also (b) I usually use it to fill my
hand - thus, this has somewhat more versatility than a fireball
(creature control being more than delt with elsewhere in the deck)
> >Wheel of Fortune
> >Diminishing Returns
> >Malignant Growth
> >Teferi's Puzzle Box
> >Howling Mine
> >Prosperity
> >Stroke of Genius
>
> see braingyser
> >Time Spiral
> >Windfall
> >
> >
>
> the orginal version used land kill, vises the dream then timetwister
> and wheel
> to do 7 damage and a multiple of 3 damage
Nah, who needs LD? I use the vise, underworld and stormbind to kill, and
the rest of the deck is basically counters, creature control, and
tutors/regrowths etc.
Goku00dbz
>> >(These are one time things that force draw 1, or maybe a couple
>> cards)
>> >Xira Arien
>> >Martyr's Cry (If playing against white, or if you can change the
>> text)
>> >Winter Sky
>> >Lord of Tresserhorn
>> >Sapphire Charm
>> >Inspiration
>> >Horn of Greed
>> >Bargain
>> >Forget
>> >
>> >And some better ones: (Force draw 3 or more cards)
>> >Ancestral Recall.
>>
>> or you can cast ancestral recall and just colt your opponent
>
>Wut? I presume you mean to cast it on yourself - well sure, but it does
>make a mighty fine kill at times - if I get'em within range, why not
>finish them with it?
>
better then giving your oppoent 3 cards
>> >Fatal Lore
>> >
>> >And great ones: (Force draw lots of cards, or draw extra cards every
>> >turn)
>> >Anvil of Bogardan
>> >Timetwister
>> >Braingeyser
>>
>> or you can just fireball him/her and not give opponet a full hand
>
>Again, this is at times true - however, In my underworld deck, I use
>Gyser and stroke, because (a) I can use it to finish an opponent by
>underworlding or decking them, but also (b) I usually use it to fill my
>hand - thus, this has somewhat more versatility than a fireball
>(creature control being more than delt with elsewhere in the deck)
>
TQM359
"Ways to abuse Underworld Dreams" is like reasons why Bob Dylan is cool. There
are just too damn many too list.
Stewart Potter
<19990201184428...@ng-fx1.aol.com>...
>
>
> "Ways to abuse Underworld Dreams" is like reasons why Bob Dylan is cool.
There
> are just too damn many too list.
>
Probably a good reason why it's restricted. Gawd, I loved that card!
------
Stu
Totto
I *know* it is a cool card. I am using it in a B/U deck with critters,
discard and a bit of counters.. but it does not work very well (the
times I win games, it is the Dreams that does it).
I was wondering what sorts of decks it kicks ass in... what is the best
way to build a deck around it?
Please, do come with ideas. Let's help me utilize the bastard to the
max..
(oh yeah, and the obvious choices are things like Teferi's Puzzle Boxes,
Prosperity and Megrim.. others?)
Totto
Andrew Vance
> Stewart Potter wrote:
> >
> > TQM359 <tqm...@aol.com> wrote in article
> > <19990201184428...@ng-fx1.aol.com>...
> > >
> > >
> > > "Ways to abuse Underworld Dreams" is like reasons why Bob Dylan is
> cool.
> > There
> > > are just too damn many too list.
> > >
> >
> > Probably a good reason why it's restricted. Gawd, I loved that card!
>
> >
>
> I *know* it is a cool card. I am using it in a B/U deck with critters,
>
> discard and a bit of counters.. but it does not work very well (the
> times I win games, it is the Dreams that does it).
>
> I was wondering what sorts of decks it kicks ass in... what is the
> best
> way to build a deck around it?
I've had one since legends was first released - I've tested a whole
bunch of decks around it. Still the best by far - presuming you have the
cards for it - is a 5 colour control deck.Play creatureless. Play mass
creature killers, as well as single control permanents (eg maze of ith,
icy, nova pentacle). Pack enough counters, and just hang around. I still
think the best way to use it is NOT with teferi's puzzle box - it bites
the wax tadpole in my deck. Ditto prosperity - It doesn't seem to work
real well, although I am going to slot it back in for a while - the mix
has changed since it was last in.
I'll post a deck list, if people reall want to see it
Totto
Ahh... control makes sense, in a way.. I'd of course need maze of ith,
icy and dual lands.. it would be a royal pain in the ass to get... but
you're right, I see the idea.
Please, do post the decklist.
Totto
Andrew Vance
> Ahh... control makes sense, in a way.. I'd of course need maze of ith,
>
> icy and dual lands.. it would be a royal pain in the ass to get... but
>
> you're right, I see the idea.
>
> Please, do post the decklist.
Alright, here goes.Before posting, however, a few quick notes:
1)This deck is probably way out beyond what the original poster in this
thread was looking for - it has a few powercards (eg timetwister,
ancestral) in it.
2) That being said, any response suggesting I should put any other power
9ish sorts of cards in will be ignored - I don't have thta kind of
money, the cards in here were purchased over a number of years, it
various times when either I was flush with cash, or they were going
cheap.
3) However, suggestions (Intelligent ones) will be appreceated.
BLACK (3)
1 Demonic tutor
1 Abyss
1 Underworld
(*All very self explanitory*)
BLUE (20)
1 Dissapate
4 Counterspells
2 Force of wills
3 Arcane Denials
1 dismiss
1 mana drain
1 Timetwister
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Copy Artifact
1 Braingyser
1 Stroke of Genius
1 relearn
1 recall
1 control magic
(* Again, I think they explain themselves fairly well - although I'm
unsure of keeping the control magic in*)
Green (1)
1 Regrowth
(* Also thinking of adding a Sylvan Library - but am unsure. Any other
cards to add (NB not stormseeker*)
Gold (1)
1 Stormbind
(*not 100% on theme, but some suggested adding one, and I did, and it
makes an admirable finish*)
Red (2)
1 fork
1 Wheel
(*also rather obvious - although the fork might have to fall out.*)
White (5)
4 Wrath of God
1 Balance
Artifacts
4 howling mines
1 sol ring
1 ivory tower
1 Black Vise
1 Icy manipulator
1 tormods crypt
1 Nova Pentacle
LAND (24)
1 maze of ith (not counted for land ratio)
1 Tolarian Academy (also not counted for ratio)
1 each taiga, plateu, scrubland, Gemstone mine, City of brass,
Undiscovered Paridise
2 Tropical Islands
3 each Volcanic island, Tundra, Badlands
4 undergroundseas.
(yes, I realise that the lands should be slightly shifted - however,
these are the doublelands I have.)
So, 64 cards, 22/42 land/nonland, and it works a treat.
>
>
> Totto
Pete
>BLACK (3)
>
>1 Demonic tutor
>1 Abyss
>1 Underworld
>BLUE (20)
>
>1 Dissapate
>4 Counterspells
>2 Force of wills
>3 Arcane Denials
Not effective enough. As card advantage these are damn near useless.
Personally, I would try something like 2 Dissipate, 1 Dismiss instead. That
way you're not too far from the original idea, but yes the cc does rise. And I
don't see WotC changing that one soon.
>1 dismiss
>1 mana drain
>1 Timetwister
You kill your opponent's creatures. Then you give them back. WTF? On the other
hand there's not a lot else to get stuff back. Gaea's Blessing is nice but not
exactly precise.
>1 Ancestral Recall
>1 Copy Artifact
>1 Braingyser
>1 Stroke of Genius
>1 relearn
>1 recall
>1 control magic
Lose it. No creatures, Abyss, Control Magic? Do I see a problem here?
Dissipate is still my favourite counterspell- pack as many as you can.
>Green (1)
>1 Regrowth
>
>(* Also thinking of adding a Sylvan Library - but am unsure. Any other
>cards to add (NB not stormseeker*)
>
I find that this is a card which works well with lots of life gain- and with a
bit of card advantage a Gerrard's Wisdom is always nice. (Remember you can
always Stroke yourself <g>)
>Gold (1)
>
>1 Stormbind
>
>(*not 100% on theme, but some suggested adding one, and I did, and it
>makes an admirable finish*)
Sod it. It works.
>Red (2)
>
>1 fork
>1 Wheel
>
>(*also rather obvious - although the fork might have to fall out.*)
With you on this one. Nice with the Strokes and Geysers but the hell with the
rest. Maybes another Icy? The Wheel isn't exactly great either. You could try
Winds Of Change if it's just 7 more cards you're after. Also works if you're
still trying to abuse Dreams, you know, Stroke, then Winds. 2X damage. Thank
you and goodnight.
>White (5)
>
>4 Wrath of God
>1 Balance
Gerrard's Wisdom? 25 life is nice, 100+ is better.
>Artifacts
>
>4 howling mines
>1 sol ring
>1 ivory tower
>1 Black Vise
>1 Icy manipulator
>1 tormods crypt
Just one? I wouldn't bother, personally, I prefer the other route where you
try some other life gain cards.
>1 Nova Pentacle
Also- Disenchant / Allay / Shattering Pulse. I'm out of time here, so that's
all folks.
Stewart Potter
thread
Pete <tober...@mailcity.com> wrote in article
<79cl8m$9r5$1...@rockall.cc.strath.ac.uk>...
> God I barely feel worthy to reply to this, but here goes...
>
> >BLACK (3)
> >
> >1 Demonic tutor
> >1 Abyss
> >1 Underworld
> >BLUE (20)
> >
> >1 Dissapate
> >4 Counterspells
> >2 Force of wills
> >3 Arcane Denials
>
> Not effective enough. As card advantage these are damn near useless.
> Personally, I would try something like 2 Dissipate, 1 Dismiss instead.
That
> way you're not too far from the original idea, but yes the cc does rise.
And I
> don't see WotC changing that one soon.
The point of this thread is abusing Underworld Dreams. Arcane Denial gives
you a counter spell for cheaper than Dissapate with NO draw back. If
opponent decides to take the extra cards he gets hit with Underworld Dream
damage.
>
> >1 dismiss
> >1 mana drain
> >1 Timetwister
>
> You kill your opponent's creatures. Then you give them back. WTF?
The F? is that the opponent just took 7 more damage from Underworld Dream.
If you than hit him with a Windfall or Winds of Change, he takes 7 MORE
damage. Again ... read the thread, read the thread ...
> On the other
> hand there's not a lot else to get stuff back. Gaea's Blessing is nice
but not
> exactly precise.
>
> >1 Ancestral Recall
> >1 Copy Artifact
> >1 Braingyser
> >1 Stroke of Genius
> >1 relearn
> >1 recall
> >1 control magic
>
> Lose it. No creatures, Abyss, Control Magic? Do I see a problem here?
> Dissipate is still my favourite counterspell- pack as many as you can.
Again, we are trying to abuse Underworld Dreams. I agree that control magic
is not well placed here, but again Arcane Denial is better than Dissapate
due to the cost.
> >Green (1)
> >1 Regrowth
> >
> >(* Also thinking of adding a Sylvan Library - but am unsure. Any other
> >cards to add (NB not stormseeker*)
> >
>
With Sylvan Library pack in an Abundance or two than you don't need the
life and infinitely more useful than Gerrards.
> I find that this is a card which works well with lots of life gain- and
with a
> bit of card advantage a Gerrard's Wisdom is always nice. (Remember you
can
> always Stroke yourself <g>)
>
Stroke is a Kill card in here as is braingeyser once you have the
Underworld Dreams in play, every card draw costs opponent a life. If you
use Time Spiral or Windfall or Winds of Change already and forced 7 - 10
draws for opponent, than a Stroke only has to be another ten or so to win
(taking into account whatever protections he might have by now). Why gain
life with Gerrard when you can stroke him to death (thanks WotC for making
that line possible! <g>)
> >Gold (1)
> >
> >1 Stormbind
> >
> >(*not 100% on theme, but some suggested adding one, and I did, and it
> >makes an admirable finish*)
>
> Sod it. It works.
>
> >Red (2)
> >
> >1 fork
> >1 Wheel
> >
> >(*also rather obvious - although the fork might have to fall out.*)
>
> With you on this one. Nice with the Strokes and Geysers but the hell with
the
> rest. Maybes another Icy? The Wheel isn't exactly great either. You could
try
> Winds Of Change if it's just 7 more cards you're after. Also works if
you're
> still trying to abuse Dreams, you know, Stroke, then Winds. 2X damage.
Thank
> you and goodnight.
Hmm, I had assumed you hadn't read the thread ... but I see you have ...
curious. The wheel guarantees seven damage vice the Winds that might get
you as much if you have the mana to stroke them for seven. I think its a
toss up Wheel or Winds. Fork could work with Wheel or stroke well to double
the damage.
>
> >White (5)
> >
> >4 Wrath of God
> >1 Balance
>
> Gerrard's Wisdom? 25 life is nice, 100+ is better.
>
eh ... life doesn't win the game except for that last one. Balance is a
nasty card particularly if you are playing creatureless (an added wrath).
> >Artifacts
> >
> >4 howling mines
> >1 sol ring
> >1 ivory tower
> >1 Black Vise
> >1 Icy manipulator
> >1 tormods crypt
>
> Just one? I wouldn't bother, personally, I prefer the other route where
you
> try some other life gain cards.
>
IMO, life won't win you the game. Kill your opponent. If he is holding
plenty of cards in hand and gains life via Gerrard's, you are going to
knock him down again with things like Vice, etc.
> >1 Nova Pentacle
>
> Also- Disenchant / Allay / Shattering Pulse. I'm out of time here, so
that's
> all folks.
>
------
Stu
Andrew Vance
> God I barely feel worthy to reply to this, but here goes...
>
> >BLACK (3)
> >
> >1 Demonic tutor
> >1 Abyss
> >1 Underworld
> >BLUE (20)
> >
> >1 Dissapate
> >4 Counterspells
> >2 Force of wills
> >3 Arcane Denials
>
> Not effective enough. As card advantage these are damn near useless.
> Personally, I would try something like 2 Dissipate, 1 Dismiss instead.
> That
> way you're not too far from the original idea, but yes the cc does
> rise. And I
> don't see WotC changing that one soon.
>
Well, gee, it works ok with the underworld. But more importantly, it
works when I have only one blue - even in the best mana'd 5c deck it
happens.
> >1 dismiss
> >1 mana drain
> >1 Timetwister
>
> You kill your opponent's creatures. Then you give them back. WTF? On
> the other
> hand there's not a lot else to get stuff back. Gaea's Blessing is nice
> but not
> exactly precise.
>
Well, Ok 1) underworld, 2) tormods crypt. With the tormads crypt (in
case you missed it - 0cc Artifact, Sac to remove target graveyard from
game entirely) This is the sickest card advantage possible. Also,
infinite recursion is very violent. Typically, If I kill with the
underworld, all dammage is done in one or two turns, and all cards are
forced by this.
> >1 Ancestral Recall
> >1 Copy Artifact
> >1 Braingyser
> >1 Stroke of Genius
> >1 relearn
> >1 recall
> >1 control magic
>
> Lose it. No creatures, Abyss, Control Magic? Do I see a problem here?
> Dissipate is still my favourite counterspell- pack as many as you can.
>
>
Yes. I think I probably will - I only picked up the abyss last week, so
have been tuning the deck to it and haven't got it perfect yet.
> >Green (1)
> >1 Regrowth
> >
> >(* Also thinking of adding a Sylvan Library - but am unsure. Any
> other
> >cards to add (NB not stormseeker*)
> >
>
> I find that this is a card which works well with lots of life gain-
> and with a
> bit of card advantage a Gerrard's Wisdom is always nice. (Remember you
> can
> always Stroke yourself <g>)
>
Life is fairly irrelavent - anyway, if I stroke at the end of my
opponents turn (who wouldn't) then I gain life from the ivory tower.
Very effective, all the life gaining I need
> >Gold (1)
> >
> >1 Stormbind
> >
> >(*not 100% on theme, but some suggested adding one, and I did, and it
>
> >makes an admirable finish*)
>
> Sod it. It works.
>
> >Red (2)
> >
> >1 fork
> >1 Wheel
> >
> >(*also rather obvious - although the fork might have to fall out.*)
>
> With you on this one. Nice with the Strokes and Geysers but the hell
> with the
> rest. Maybes another Icy? The Wheel isn't exactly great either. You
> could try
> Winds Of Change if it's just 7 more cards you're after.
Uh-hu. Winds of change sucks with the underworld, dude. I dislike any
card which can give my opponent card advantage in a massive way, unless
it is very likely to kill them, or can simple target me instead. Hence,
I dislike Winds of change, as in practice 9which I did a whole lot) it
sucked.
> Also works if you're
> still trying to abuse Dreams, you know, Stroke, then Winds. 2X damage.
> Thank
> you and goodnight.
>
> >White (5)
> >
> >4 Wrath of God
> >1 Balance
>
> Gerrard's Wisdom? 25 life is nice, 100+ is better.
>
> >Artifacts
> >
> >4 howling mines
> >1 sol ring
> >1 ivory tower
> >1 Black Vise
> >1 Icy manipulator
> >1 tormods crypt
>
> Just one? I wouldn't bother, personally, I prefer the other route
> where you
> try some other life gain cards.
>
Exactly what do you think a tormods crypt does?
> >1 Nova Pentacle
>
> Also- Disenchant / Allay / Shattering Pulse. I'm out of time here, so
> that's
> all folks.
Yea - I probably should add some board control for enchantments-but
to hell with that for now.
Jane Black
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