Schneider-Pox: cool, but why?
Joshua Duffin
I read a tourney report on here a little while ago that gave a listing
for a Schneider-Pox deck. Now, I love Pox. So I put the deck together
(at least, a very close approximation) and tried it out. It's fun, and
it's very cool, but it kept not working very well at all. I only played
it against one opponent (using a mono-black weenie deck with winter orbs),
but he kept demolishing me.
As far as I could tell, the biggest problem was that this deck can't
handle winter orbs. At all. Even a little. It needs its mana a lot,
especially if you want to even think about buying back the Evincar's
Justice.
So, what I was thinking was maybe putting in about 6 artifact mana
sources to help out with the Worb problem. Say, 4 Mind Stones (also good
with the card-draw if you have a lot of mana, or there's no winter orb,
or you want to hide a card in your artifact till after you Pox), 2
Charcoal Diamond, or something like that. I was thinking of replacing
2 Drains, 2 Evincar's Justice, 2 Stupor with them.
Anyone else got insight on what makes Schneider-Pox work well, or how
it can deal with Winter Orb? (I really like the deck idea, it just kept
*almost* winning games.)
Here's the listing I saw:
18 Swamp
4 Wasteland
2 Stalking Stones
---
4 Cursed Scroll
4 Funeral Charm (this is pretty funny)
2 Phyrexian Furnace (not too bad)
---
4 Diabolic Edict
---
4 Stupor
4 Pox
3 Steel Golem
---
4 Evincar's Justice
4 Drain Life
4 Spinning Darkness (great card, but as my opponent was playing black,
couldn't use it as often as I wanted to)
---
that's 61 cards; I took out a Steel Golem right off to make it 60.
(the other alterations I was playing with: 2 Steel Golems/2 Chimeric
Sphere/3 Justice/3 Drain in an attempt to reduce the mana-intensiveness.)
trying to contribute a little strategy to the strategy group
Michael Gillespie
"(the other alterations I was playing with: 2 Steel Golems/2 Chimeric
Sphere/3 Justice/3 Drain in an attempt to reduce the mana-intensiveness.)"
Chimeric Spheres make a deck less mana intensive. Also I think the idea of
artifact man is good, However, i think you might only need 3 or 4 so that
you dont have to cut key cards out of the deck.
Michael Gillespie
About two minutes ago, I wrote "Chimeric Spheres make a deck less mana
intensive."
I meant to write "Chimeric Spheres make a deck
less mana intensive?"
Thanks
BlackKnght
no no no..you got it wrong again. Chimeric Spheres make a deck MORE mana
intensive. There.
Michael Gillespie
No read the original post. He said that he added the spheres to make it
less mana intensive. i then said (after one revision) questioningly,
"Chimeric Spheres make a deck less mana intensive?" cause he was wrong
and i was pointing it out.
Joshua Duffin
Michael Gillespie (spa...@virginia.edu) wrote:
: No read the original post. He said that he added the spheres to make it
: less mana intensive. i then said (after one revision) questioningly,
: "Chimeric Spheres make a deck less mana intensive?" cause he was wrong
: and i was pointing it out.
Oh my. I was initially happy to see five posts in this thread, but evidently
none of them are all that useful. (At least your first one had some input.)
Well, Chimeric Spheres won't usually make a deck less mana intensive, true,
but in replacement of Drain Life and Evincar's Justice, I think they do.
I don't think there's any way to completely avoid replacing key cards when
putting in artifact mana. Maybe if I add 6 arti-mana, I could replace two
lands with 'em?
Oh yeah, another thing I was thinking. While Wastelands are kinda cool,
it looked to me like Quicksands would be much more useful in getting quick
colorless defense up against weenies. Anyone want to argue in favor of
Wastelands?
Josh
still hoping for good advice
Brennan Moody
> Sphere/3 Justice/3 Drain in an attempt to reduce the mana-intensiveness.)
>
Try using touchstones,a sideboard card that stops the worb cold
See Ya,Moody
Chuckie Sarsparilla
BlackKnght wrote:
>
> >About two minutes ago, I wrote "Chimeric Spheres make a deck less mana
> >intensive."
> >less mana intensive?"
>
> no no no..you got it wrong again. Chimeric Spheres make a deck MORE mana
> intensive. There.
No, he got it right - he forgot the question mark, implying what you
explicitly stated.
Chuckie
--
An immense river of oblivion is sweeping us away
into a nameless abyss.
-Ernest Renan
Tomas Lindohf
Joshua Duffin <du...@newton.ruph.cornell.edu> wrote in article
<66l377$6...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>...
> I read a tourney report on here a little while ago that gave a listing
> for a Schneider-Pox deck. Now, I love Pox. So I put the deck together
> (at least, a very close approximation) and tried it out. It's fun, and
> it's very cool, but it kept not working very well at all. I only played
> it against one opponent (using a mono-black weenie deck with winter
orbs),
> but he kept demolishing me.
Yeah, Winter Orb is a bitch against Jay Luo's version of Schneider Pox.
That's why I modified it a bit and added 4 Charcoal Diamonds and 3
Undisovered Paradise. Now it's working perfectly under the Worb as well.
> As far as I could tell, the biggest problem was that this deck can't
> handle winter orbs. At all. Even a little. It needs its mana a lot,
> especially if you want to even think about buying back the Evincar's
> Justice.
I never plan on buying back Evincar's Justice. Since there's a lot of
weenies in Standard at the moment the Justice is almost like a Wrath,
especially against green decks. The buyback is more like a bonus if you can
get it going.
> So, what I was thinking was maybe putting in about 6 artifact mana
> sources to help out with the Worb problem. Say, 4 Mind Stones (also good
> with the card-draw if you have a lot of mana, or there's no winter orb,
> or you want to hide a card in your artifact till after you Pox), 2
> Charcoal Diamond, or something like that. I was thinking of replacing
> 2 Drains, 2 Evincar's Justice, 2 Stupor with them.
No, no, no... six artifact mana is too much. Don't replace the Stupors
either, they are too good against most decks together with Pox. I've
replaced 1 Drain, 1 Justice and the two Furnaces with Charcoal Diamonds.
> Anyone else got insight on what makes Schneider-Pox work well, or how
> it can deal with Winter Orb? (I really like the deck idea, it just kept
> *almost* winning games.)
>
> Here's the listing I saw:
[snipping Jay Luo's Schneider Pox]
Jay Luo also used 3 Touchstones in the sideboard to deal with Worbs.
> that's 61 cards; I took out a Steel Golem right off to make it 60.
> (the other alterations I was playing with: 2 Steel Golems/2 Chimeric
> Sphere/3 Justice/3 Drain in an attempt to reduce the mana-intensiveness.)
Chimeric Sphere is a good choice, although it don't reduce the
mana-intensiveness.
My version of the Schneider Pox looks like this at the moment:
12 Swamp
3 Undiscovered Paradise
3 Gemstone Mine
3 Quicksand
1 Stalking Stones
4 Charcoal Diamond
Since I had already added the UP's for I thought I'd just as well add a
couple of Gemstones and splash in white for Disenchant. I also replaced the
Wastelands with Quicksand for increased creature defence.
4 Cursed Scroll
4 Funeral Charm
4 Diabolic Edict
4 Stupor
4 Pox
The core of the deck. These cards is what makes the deck work as well as it
does. You should keep these at four.
3 Steel Golem
2 Chimeric Sphere
Steel Golem is so good in this deck. Chimeric Sphere is a nice addition,
and also acts as a mana sink in case your opponent plays with Vinyard.
3 Evincar's Justice
3 Drain Life
2 Spinning Darkness
Three Justice seems to be the right number since you usually want to use it
when you can gain some card advantage. Three Drain Life also feels right. I
only have two Spinning Darkness main deck, in case my opponent is playing
black or white with Protection from Black.
1 Disenhant
One Disenchant main deck for surprise value.
60 cards main deck.
Sideboard:
2 Disrupting Sceptre (against blue)
2 Phyrexian Furnace (duh!)
3 Dread of Night (if you play against ww with Pro. Black sideboard out
Justice for these, nut if you play against 4/5CW sideboard out Funeral
Charm instead, since his only x/1 creatures will be those with Pro. Black)
2 Perish (Evincar's Justice wrecks most green decks, so you don't need
more)
1 Spinning Darkness
3 Disenchant (against artifact hosers like Aura of Silence and Null Rod)
2 Honorable Passage/Warmth (not sure which to use here, I'm evaluating both
at the moment)
I placed 2nd in a local tournament with an earlier version of this deck
this weekend. The four artifact mana seems sufficient, since neither Worb
nor 'Geddon slowed me down much.
> Josh
> jt...@cornell.edu
>
> trying to contribute a little strategy to the strategy group
--
// Tomas Lindohf
// t...@hermes.prog.se
// http://hermes.prog.se/~tol/Magic/index.html
ODariani
i believe that was a question, as in, chimeric spheres make a deck less mana
intensive? appropriately followed by HOW?
please read before you respond to postings.
omeed.
PDB6
Josh Duffin wrote:
"Oh my. I was initially happy to see five posts in this thread, but evidently
none of them are all that useful. (At least your first one had some input.)"
Wow. The internet really does disprove the "Infinite Monkeys with Infinte
Typewriters" theory. These Magic groups, in particular.
"Well, Chimeric Spheres won't usually make a deck less mana intensive, true,
but in replacement of Drain Life and Evincar's Justice, I think they do."
Yes, but considering how few critters you have at all (4?), I think you are
probably better off going completey critterless. With zero critters (even
artifacty ones like the Sphere), an opponents anti critter angle will be
complete card wasteage. With even only 4 critters, the various Diabolic Edicts
and Spinning Darknesses (or whatever) will be useful eventually, and your
opponent will definitely have one in hand when needed. Did you _ever_ manage
to hit me with a monster in those, like, 7 games where I killed you
continuously? In those last two where you won, I never got out a Worb, and I
had wacky draws (I blame the Sleeves...), which is why you did so well. The
monster-lands are pretty good, cause if your opponent has, like, zero
anti-critter, they still will be handy. I would replace the critters with
other sources of damage, like the Cursed Scrolls.
"I don't think there's any way to completely avoid replacing key cards when
putting in artifact mana. Maybe if I add 6 arti-mana, I could replace two
lands with 'em?"
Why not just go with Disks?
"Oh yeah, another thing I was thinking. While Wastelands are kinda cool, it
looked to me like Quicksands would be much more useful in getting quick
colorless defense up against weenies. Anyone want to argue in favor of
Wastelands?"
Nah. The Wastelands are good for killing multi lands, but the Quicksands are
good at killing the critters that are axing you while you try to get enough
mana to be useful. There really isn't that much scary land in T2, and if you
are really concerned, put in some land killer cards (Chking Sands?).
Peter D Bakija
PD...@aol.com
"I was satisfied with my life
before I ate Strawberry Cream Puff."
-Shonen Knife
ODariani
>"Chimeric Spheres make a deck less mana intensive?" cause he was wrong
>and i was pointing it out.
>
>
i realize that. i was trying to clarify in your favor.
(you'll have to forgive us, mike and i are used to bicering about english and
phrasing)
omeed.
Idiosynch
I always assume that anything regarding Schneider is either a direct slam on
the kid, or a troll relating to him.. Unless, of course, Brian made the deck.
In which case, I'll hafta ty playing it sometime. :)
I mean, c'mon.. Pox? What a joke card.
(hiya, marshmallow boy.. :)
chris,
"Marshmallow Boy's annoying little friend."
--Sean O'Brien
Stephen Muise
Everyone,
I played a similar pox deck this weekend at a tiny extended tourney (only my
2nd) and a couple people playing other matches laughed when when they first heard
me saying "I pox. It wasn't so funny for my opponent, who lost 2 lands, two cards
and 7 life. I didn't win the tournament, but the deck beat red burn 2-0 and a
blue white green (for g. blessings) control deck 2-0(first game was a fluke
though). In the side board I had 3 ankhs of mishra, which did wonders against the
blue control deck. Dropped one turn two. Originally they were standard, but that
means I automatically lose to red burn game 1, so I switched them. There were 3
choking sands standard and 3 wastelands, but they didn't really help as much as
they did when playtesting, mainly because I took the ankhs out a half hour before
the tourney.. (Someone actually interdicted my wasteland, on turn two, which
decimated me in my loss). I really thought that they would do better. The other
main difference (at least that I want to share) is that I had 2 lobotomys
standard. This is because when I think of extended, I think hymn, which means I
think tactics (which I had 3 of, actually). It wasn't too good against red (I did
pull a tactics with it, though) and it got counterspelled everytime with the
control deck.
I had three c. scrolls and 3 s. golems but I would put four of each in. I
performed some serious golem beatdown when I drew them, and they were targets for
a lot (especially double bolts). You don't need any other creatures. The scrolls
are so good, as long as you didn't pox away all of your land. They are straight
up unfair.
Concerning winter orb: ya gotta have the touchstone. If not, it is quite
tricky to win.
It is fun to play and really not fun to play against. You have to think to
play it. There is very little to sideboard against it, and it sideboards very
well. Although it's easy to make a deck to beat it, too bad that deck will lose
to everything else out there. Mr.Schneider did a good job starting up this
archtype as a "rogue deck", but I think that there is a lot of slick tricks that
can make this deck really hard to beat.
Later
Stephen
Idiosynch wrote:
> I always assume that anything regarding Schneider is either a direct slam on
> the kid, or a troll relating to him.. Unless, of course, Brian made the deck.
> In which case, I'll hafta ty playing it sometime. :)
>
> I mean, c'mon.. Pox? What a joke card.
No joke guy.
Joshua Duffin
PDB6 (pd...@aol.com) wrote:
: Josh Duffin wrote:
: "Oh my. I was initially happy to see five posts in this thread, but evidently
: none of them are all that useful. (At least your first one had some input.)"
: Wow. The internet really does disprove the "Infinite Monkeys with Infinte
: Typewriters" theory. These Magic groups, in particular.
Peter Bakija! What the heck are you doing on this group? You must be
extra bored.
[virtues or lack thereof of chimeric spheres & steel golems]
: opponent will definitely have one in hand when needed. Did you _ever_ manage
: to hit me with a monster in those, like, 7 games where I killed you
: continuously? In those last two where you won, I never got out a Worb, and I
: had wacky draws (I blame the Sleeves...), which is why you did so well. The
: monster-lands are pretty good, cause if your opponent has, like, zero
: anti-critter, they still will be handy. I would replace the critters with
: other sources of damage, like the Cursed Scrolls.
You know, I was suspecting the same thing myself. The only thing is that
creatures (as reusable sources of damage) really are quite efficient and
all that. But as you say, they'll always have the anti-critter by the
time I try to use my Sphere or Golem. (I already have 4 Scrolls in, and
I'm not aware of any other good artifact sources of damage in t2. Maybe
I could take the creatures out and put the Drain and Justice back in..)
(I think I hit you with a Chimeric Sphere at least a couple times one
of those games where you were completely screwed. Not in the ones that
you won.)
: "I don't think there's any way to completely avoid replacing key cards when
: putting in artifact mana. Maybe if I add 6 arti-mana, I could replace two
: lands with 'em?"
: Why not just go with Disks?
Cause they'll lay the Worb when I'm tapped out, like they always do, and
then four turns later when I can cast a Disk, I'll be dead already. ;-)
Artifact mana (at least in theory) can simultaneously speed up my mana
development and make me less vulnerable to the Orb.
Also (again in theory), I'm trying to take advantage of how Pox works by
making significant use of non-critter artifacts (the only permanent Pox
doesn't affect). Disks kill those. (Oh yeah, Pox doesn't get enchantments
either. Maybe I should look for some of those to put in...)
[wastelands vs quicksands]
: Nah. The Wastelands are good for killing multi lands, but the Quicksands are
: good at killing the critters that are axing you while you try to get enough
: mana to be useful. There really isn't that much scary land in T2, and if you
: are really concerned, put in some land killer cards (Chking Sands?).
Ah, well I'm not really that concerned which is why I'm looking for someone
else to argue in favor of Wastelands. There are Choking Sands in the
sideboard of the decklisting I saw (as well as Touchstones for anti-Worb;
I'm just not satisfied by having only SB answers to Worbs), which I think
is probably good enough.
Josh
so where are the people who complain about the lack of strategic stuff
*now*, hmmm?
Unknown
>18 Swamp
>4 Wasteland
>2 Stalking Stones
I'm kinda of the opinion that if the deck ever had 6 mana it's not
poxing enough.
>---
>4 Cursed Scroll
>4 Funeral Charm (this is pretty funny)
>2 Phyrexian Furnace (not too bad)
I've had mixed reactions to the funeral charm, but it is weird to
actually see it used.
>---
>4 Diabolic Edict
>---
>4 Stupor
>4 Pox
>3 Steel Golem
I've played brood of cockroaches in mine with a resonable degree of
success.
>---
>4 Evincar's Justice
>4 Drain Life
>4 Spinning Darkness (great card, but as my opponent was playing black,
> couldn't use it as often as I wanted to)
One of the biggest problems with this deck is that a burn deck WITH
scrolls standard just destroy's it (IMO).
Craig
The Corrupter
On 11 Dec 1997, PDB6 wrote:
> Josh Duffin wrote:
> "Oh my. I was initially happy to see five posts in this thread, but evidently
> none of them are all that useful. (At least your first one had some input.)"
> Wow. The internet really does disprove the "Infinite Monkeys with Infinte
> Typewriters" theory. These Magic groups, in particular.
True, not like the Other Group...
> "I don't think there's any way to completely avoid replacing key cards when
> putting in artifact mana. Maybe if I add 6 arti-mana, I could replace two
> lands with 'em?"
> Why not just go with Disks?
When I was playing disk in Pimp Pox (at PT Chicago), while they were
wonderful, they never actually sufficed for anti-orb. The orb decks were
all prepared for something like that, and since no other anti-artifact is
really in the deck, it is an easily removed target.
> "Oh yeah, another thing I was thinking. While Wastelands are kinda cool, it
> looked to me like Quicksands would be much more useful in getting quick
> colorless defense up against weenies. Anyone want to argue in favor of
> Wastelands?"
> Nah. The Wastelands are good for killing multi lands, but the Quicksands are
> good at killing the critters that are axing you while you try to get enough
> mana to be useful. There really isn't that much scary land in T2, and if you
> are really concerned, put in some land killer cards (Chking Sands?).
I have to disagree. The loss of the early land can be _horribly_
painful. Besides, this is an extended deck...
> Peter D Bakija
> PD...@aol.com
Shouldn't you guys be playing Jyhad?
Adrian Sullivan <http://upl.cs.wisc.edu/~adrian/jyhad>
@#$ The Corrupter $#@ GAT/CS/WS C(+++)$ N++ PS++@ b++ R+++* r+ z++**?
Game Theorist, Coffee Addict, Opinionated Gynophile Hedonist MHTHTS
But who needs labels? - Comments always welcome...
Dan Osman
Don't knock the pox. It's great under the right circumstances. Anyone
who laughed at you for playing it hasn't seen the full wrath that pox
can shell out. Here's a suggestion: try pox with dance of the dead and
triskilion (AKA pimpbot). Yes, I know a three card combo that sounds
like it doesn't work. In fact, if you looked at the entire deck you
would laugh. It looks like crap on paper. In action though, there's
nothing that the opponent can do against a 5/5 creature that can plow
its way through the rest of the board. In fact, there wasn't a lot that
many players at the Chicago PT could do about it either.
Dan
PDB6
The Corrupter wrote:
"When I was playing disk in Pimp Pox (at PT Chicago), while they were
wonderful, they never actually sufficed for anti-orb. The orb decks were all
prepared for something like that, and since no other anti-artifact is really in
the deck, it is an easily removed target."
Yah, and as Josh pointed out, by the time he gets out the Disk and uses it, he
is already dead in the face of a Worb. The deck worked pretty well with, like,
28 mana (22 land+6 diamond/stone), and while my black wennie/worb deck
dispatched him very handily two out of three games last night, he got a good
scroll lock set up in the third and demolished me.
"I have to disagree. The loss of the early land can be _horribly_ painful.
Besides, this is an extended deck..."
Josh is playing his as a Type II-what would make it Extended?
"Shouldn't you guys be playing Jyhad?"
Well, yeah, but occasionally we like to venture into the land of "CRitIquE mY
WHIte weNIEE PLEssss!!!" and pick up some few and far between useful strategy
tips...
Joshua Duffin
Tomas Lindohf (t...@hermes.prog.se) wrote:
: Yeah, Winter Orb is a bitch against Jay Luo's version of Schneider Pox.
: That's why I modified it a bit and added 4 Charcoal Diamonds and 3
: Undisovered Paradise. Now it's working perfectly under the Worb as well.
I played my Schneider-Pox variant again for a while the other day. I
still don't have any good experience against Worbs though, cause the
only person I played against who was using Worbs was Peter Bakija, and
he didn't draw any the three games we played.
It does look like the artifact mana helped a lot though.
: I never plan on buying back Evincar's Justice. Since there's a lot of
: weenies in Standard at the moment the Justice is almost like a Wrath,
: especially against green decks. The buyback is more like a bonus if you can
: get it going.
Yeah, I've come around to that point of view now. Seven mana's a little
much for a Pox deck.
: No, no, no... six artifact mana is too much. Don't replace the Stupors
: either, they are too good against most decks together with Pox. I've
: replaced 1 Drain, 1 Justice and the two Furnaces with Charcoal Diamonds.
What I ended up doing is going down to 3 Drain, 3 Justice, 16 Swamp (22
land total) for 4 Mind Stone, 2 Charcoal Diamond. Though I do suspect
that 4 Diamond would be better; I hardly ever used the draw-for-the-Stone
ability. I'm not sure that 6 artifact is too much, but I think you're
right about the Stupors; I went back to 4 of those.
By the way - what's the Furnace in main-deck for, anyhow? The sac-and-draw
effect can be handy, to get a card back after a Pox for example, but the
graveyard-messing doesn't seem to be all that great against most people.
: My version of the Schneider Pox looks like this at the moment:
: 12 Swamp
: 3 Undiscovered Paradise
: 3 Gemstone Mine
: 3 Quicksand
: 1 Stalking Stones
: 4 Charcoal Diamond
: Since I had already added the UP's for I thought I'd just as well add a
: couple of Gemstones and splash in white for Disenchant. I also replaced the
: Wastelands with Quicksand for increased creature defence.
Splashing something for some utility cards might be a good idea. I got
completely rocked several times by a mono-red mostly-burn deck with
Howling Mines. The Mines just completely screwed any of my attempts at
discard. (I don't actually have any Undiscovereds, but I probably
shouldn't let that stop me; there are still about ten proxies in the deck
as it is... ;-)
: 3 Steel Golem
: 2 Chimeric Sphere
: Steel Golem is so good in this deck. Chimeric Sphere is a nice addition,
: and also acts as a mana sink in case your opponent plays with Vinyard.
A problem I was having at least against the mono-black weenies is that
having any creatures at all (even the Stalking Stones, or Steel Golems,
or Chimeric Spheres) just lets them use their creature destruction spells,
which would otherwise be dead cards. I'm still kinda indecisive about
whether to use any creatures. Tell me why I should put Steel Golems
back in. (Of course, they would at least attract some burn away from
me...)
: 3 Evincar's Justice
: 3 Drain Life
: 2 Spinning Darkness
: Three Justice seems to be the right number since you usually want to use it
: when you can gain some card advantage. Three Drain Life also feels right. I
: only have two Spinning Darkness main deck, in case my opponent is playing
: black or white with Protection from Black.
I love the Spinning Darkness. It's like a black Fireblast! (Well, except
for the non-black creature part. That is annoying, but the life gain
is *excellent*. As is the effectively-0 casting cost.)
: 1 Disenhant
: One Disenchant main deck for surprise value.
Is there any special reason you're not playing, say 4 Undiscovered, 4
Gemstone? Just to try to reduce the risk of only-an-Undiscovered as
starting land?
: I placed 2nd in a local tournament with an earlier version of this deck
: this weekend. The four artifact mana seems sufficient, since neither Worb
: nor 'Geddon slowed me down much.
Well, that's good evidence. ;-) I'll have to try it out.
Josh
happy to get some useful input!
Joshua Duffin
Craig Sivils (csi...@hotmail.com) (csi...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: >18 Swamp
: >4 Wasteland
: >2 Stalking Stones
: I'm kinda of the opinion that if the deck ever had 6 mana it's not
: poxing enough.
Yeah, you may be right at that. I have activated the Stones pretty often
though (albeit with the 28 mana (6 of it artifact) version). I also
noticed that I won a lot more games in which I got out the Cursed Scroll
than ones where I didn't. I wonder if there are any good ways to increase
the chances of getting a Scroll... I'd hate to use Vampiric Tutors in a
Pox deck.
: I've had mixed reactions to the funeral charm, but it is weird to
: actually see it used.
Isn't it though? Not many people know what you're doing with it,
beforehand. It's actually been quite good for me; it kills a lot of
weenies real well, and the discard-your-last-card effect isn't too bad
either.
: I've played brood of cockroaches in mine with a resonable degree of
: success.
That's an interesting choice. Do you have more life gainers, or are you
just figuring you have to be manly to play Pox anyway? (I like Brood,
but ow! the pain.)
: One of the biggest problems with this deck is that a burn deck WITH
: scrolls standard just destroy's it (IMO).
You're probably right. Burn without scrolls seems to give me a hard
time; Scrolls haven't really caught on around here that much yet (but
I suspect they're about to) and would be Worse. Putting in some poly-
lands and Disenchants might be a good plan.
Josh
oooh, and maybe Passages too...
PDB6
Josh Duffin wrote:
"By the way - what's the Furnace in main-deck for, anyhow? The sac-and-draw
effect can be handy, to get a card back after a Pox for example, but the
graveyard-messing doesn't seem to be all that great against most people."
Yah. It was screwing with my deck pretty harshly (seeing how I use the
Necrotog/Spinning Darkness/Crypt Dance angles), but I fail to see how it will
really help all that much in general, and didn't really make that much of a
difference against me anyway. Couldn't they be replaced with more utilitarian
damage causing artifacts?
Joshua Duffin
The Corrupter (sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu) wrote:
: On 11 Dec 1997, PDB6 wrote:
: > Wow. The internet really does disprove the "Infinite Monkeys with Infinte
: > Typewriters" theory. These Magic groups, in particular.
: True, not like the Other Group...
:
Well, not as much at least..
: > Nah. The Wastelands are good for killing multi lands, but the Quicksands are
: > good at killing the critters that are axing you while you try to get enough
: > mana to be useful. There really isn't that much scary land in T2, and if you
: > are really concerned, put in some land killer cards (Chking Sands?).
: I have to disagree. The loss of the early land can be _horribly_
: painful. Besides, this is an extended deck...
:
As Peter said, my version isn't extended, it's standard. I mean, the
deck would certainly gain some effective stuff in extended, but then so
does everyone else, and burn just gets more awful.
Sure, lots of people are playing poly-lands in Standard too, but I think
in terms of Wastelands vs. Quicksands, right now I'd rather have the Sands.
I'll do enough land-killing with the Pox; the Sands will help keep me alive
against the weenies.
: > Peter D Bakija
: > PD...@aol.com
:
: Shouldn't you guys be playing Jyhad?
Well, of course we *should*... however, we are foolishly venturing into
the den of iniquity. (Besides, this Pox thing is just so cool, how could
I resist?)
Josh
loves a good pox
Onix
-=> Quoting Joshua Duffin to All <=-
JD> I don't think there's any way to completely avoid replacing key cards
JD> when putting in artifact mana. Maybe if I add 6 arti-mana, I could
JD> replace two lands with 'em?
Or even 1. Yes. Makes some sence.
JD> Oh yeah, another thing I was thinking. While Wastelands are kinda
JD> cool, it looked to me like Quicksands would be much more useful in
JD> getting quick colorless defense up against weenies. Anyone want to
JD> argue in favor of Wastelands?
Mh the only thing against Quicksands I see is that they are a bit horrible.
Provinding a colourless or kill one weenie is not very good I think.
On the other hand they are used a lot, so probably better then I thought.
The Wastelands seems a bit risky, (what if they have no special lands).
But when they have it is obviously very good.
With Pox I suppose their sac effect is benefitial because it helps your
development. The sac of Quicksands shouldn't be a disadvantage either,
maybe I'll try it with creatures instead.(not trying pox myself, but thinking
how to stop weenie's near creatureless).
Maybe put the wastelands in the sideboard, at least that is my plan.
Onyx.
Paolo Coletti
Idiosynch wrote:
>
> I always assume that anything regarding Schneider is either a direct slam on
> the kid, or a troll relating to him.. Unless, of course, Brian made the deck.
> In which case, I'll hafta ty playing it sometime. :)
>
> I mean, c'mon.. Pox? What a joke card.
>
You joker, pox is a great card, if only someone would come out with a
good deck idea ....
Jay Luo
Joshua Duffin wrote:
> By the way - what's the Furnace in main-deck for, anyhow? The sac-and-draw
> effect can be handy, to get a card back after a Pox for example, but the
> graveyard-messing doesn't seem to be all that great against most people.
We noticed locally that Phyrexian Furnace is an excellent way to deal
with some of the things Schneider-Pox has trouble with:
- Mangara's Blessing. (Return what to your hand?)
- Sand Golem. (Return what to play?)
- Living Death, Tombstone Stairwell, Nature's Resurgence.
(What creatures in graveyard?)
- Gaea's Blessing. (This card has been surprisingly annoying...)
It makes Lhurgoyf and Necratog look pretty silly. It puts more things
in the precious "Sligh/Geeba" 1-slot so as to improve early mana usage.
And against people it doesn't have a specific use against, it's an
artifact not counted by Pox and a cantrip so it's never truly wasted.
Regarding Wastelands vs. Quicksands, locally there are a LOT of 5-color
green, 5-color white and 2 to 5 color black decks. Even mono-color
decks
here tend to run a few nonbasic lands. Wasteland has been quite
disruptive in this sort of environment. We haven't found Quicksand to
be quite as good as the deck already packs a huge amount of creature
kill.
Adding Charcoal Diamonds to the deck has also been very good for
increasing the deck's viability under Winter Orb and Armageddon.
Definite improvement!
Jay S has cut the number of Spinning Darkness in his deck but I've
been keeping 4 in mine; I've run into very few mono-black creature
decks here where they're totally useless and they just help SO much
against burn decks.
Thanks to everyone who's been sharing their Pox experiences, it's
made fascinating reading!
Jay L
Joshua Duffin
PDB6 (pd...@aol.com) wrote:
: Josh Duffin wrote:
: "By the way - what's the Furnace in main-deck for, anyhow? The sac-and-draw
: effect can be handy, to get a card back after a Pox for example, but the
: graveyard-messing doesn't seem to be all that great against most people."
: Yah. It was screwing with my deck pretty harshly (seeing how I use the
: Necrotog/Spinning Darkness/Crypt Dance angles), but I fail to see how it will
: really help all that much in general, and didn't really make that much of a
: difference against me anyway. Couldn't they be replaced with more utilitarian
: damage causing artifacts?
There's nothing else I know of in good utilitarian damage causing artifacts
besides Cursed Scroll, which there are already four of. But I have taken
the Furnaces out now.
In the latest form, I've put in 4 Undiscovered Paradise, 4 Gemstone Mine,
and used them to splash 2 Disenchant, 2 Honorable Passage (yeah, main
deck; I'm thinking maybe pre-sideboard against burn could be helpful);
going completely creatureless (no Steel Golems, no Stalking Stones) and
losing the Phyrexian Furnaces. Still got 4 of all the core cards (Pox,
Funeral Charm, Stupor, Cursed Scroll, Diabolic Edict, Spinning Darkness),
three Evincar's Justice, three Drain Life, four Quicksand, four Charcoal
Diamond, ten Swamps. I'm not sure if it's the best way to go, but it
looks good on paper...
I was also tempted to try splashing Incinerates in the main. I'm not
sure whether that would be better than the Disenchants and Passages. (Or
just the Disenchants maybe.)
Josh
"I was satisfied with my Pox deck before I ate Strawberry Cream Puff..."
Joshua Duffin
Jay Luo (y...@photobooks.com) wrote:
: Joshua Duffin wrote:
: > By the way - what's the Furnace in main-deck for, anyhow? The sac-and-draw
: > effect can be handy, to get a card back after a Pox for example, but the
: > graveyard-messing doesn't seem to be all that great against most people.
: We noticed locally that Phyrexian Furnace is an excellent way to deal
: with some of the things Schneider-Pox has trouble with:
: - Mangara's Blessing. (Return what to your hand?)
: - Sand Golem. (Return what to play?)
I like these, I hadn't thought of the Furnace's usefulness against them.
: - Living Death, Tombstone Stairwell, Nature's Resurgence.
: (What creatures in graveyard?)
This I'm a little skeptical of. These cards (I think) all tend to show
up in fast weenie decks, and it seems to me like the Furnace won't get
rid of enough of the dead critters fast enough to help much. (The only
person I played against where the Furnace was directly useful was using
Necratog and that buyback Corpse Dance thing, and it sure didn't help
enough against the 'Tog...)
: - Gaea's Blessing. (This card has been surprisingly annoying...)
: It makes Lhurgoyf and Necratog look pretty silly. It puts more things
: in the precious "Sligh/Geeba" 1-slot so as to improve early mana usage.
: And against people it doesn't have a specific use against, it's an
: artifact not counted by Pox and a cantrip so it's never truly wasted.
What specifically has 'Blessing been doing to you? I can see the
annoyance, but the best thing I've seen so far is recycling the Incinerates
into the deck, which isn't much. I do like having more 1-cost stuff,
but at least around here, the Furnace has no direct use against almsot
everyone. (It'd almost be more useful as Barbed Sextants to get more
off-color mana for splashed spells... which I'd consider actually doing
except that the splashed spells themselves took up the Furnace spots.. ;-)
: Regarding Wastelands vs. Quicksands, locally there are a LOT of 5-color
: green, 5-color white and 2 to 5 color black decks. Even mono-color
: decks
: here tend to run a few nonbasic lands. Wasteland has been quite
: disruptive in this sort of environment. We haven't found Quicksand to
: be quite as good as the deck already packs a huge amount of creature
: kill.
True, lots of creature kill there already, but 5-color is very non
prevalent locally to me. Also, it seems to me that creature kill is best
used before the creature gets to attack you, so as to minimize the damage
you're taking, given that you're playing Pox. (Especially much against
burn.) So Quicksands can help out there, as they'll kill weenies without
your actually taking the hit.
: Adding Charcoal Diamonds to the deck has also been very good for
: increasing the deck's viability under Winter Orb and Armageddon.
: Definite improvement!
Glad you liked it. You and Schneider are using them now?
: Jay S has cut the number of Spinning Darkness in his deck but I've
: been keeping 4 in mine; I've run into very few mono-black creature
: decks here where they're totally useless and they just help SO much
: against burn decks.
Besides, they cost 0!
And may I say, thanks much for the post that inspired me to get one of
these excellent Pox decks together. It's been too long since I played
Pox...
Josh
a pox upon both your houses!