derelor!!!
Beancurd
Please email me with what you think.
alan
Jacob Jost
: Any good ideas for/with using derelors in a deck?
: Please email me with what you think.
: alan
Play G/*/b (either U or R) and cast it second turn or so with fast
mana. If it is one of your only black spells, you essentially have a Juzam.
--
"Follow me," the wise man said, but he walked behind.-Leonard Cohen
Ich bin das Eiermann, sie sind die Eiermaenner, Ich bin das Walross!
jj...@freenet.columbus.oh.us= das Walross
Robert G. Malkin
Re: derelor!!! by Da...@direct.ca
> >Please email me with what you think.
> >
> >alan
> >
> Juxtapose in as well. Gove your opponent the bruiser and then sleight it
> as appropriate. If your opponent isn't playing black he's in trouble.
> Orbs (winter type) work well here too! While you're at it, make it a
> Thrull deck with Wizards as well (another very sleightable card)
this is a fun combination. however, the value of a derelor in a serious
deck shouldn't be overlooked. i've found, in tpye ii defensive decks,
that it is sometimes worth it to put in three or four swamps and a few
derelors (playing only one at a time, of course) for the cheap heavy
hitter that these decks sometimes lack. has anyone else tried this?
rob
Evan Simpson
>Any good ideas for/with using derelors in a deck?
>Please email me with what you think.
>alan
Best I've seen is Derelors as the only black spells in a deck with
Barbed Sextants and Cities of Brass. A 4/4 for 4 mana with no
drawbacks. The same deck put out Ernhams with no Forests.
GlennW2160
colors, or decks that carry black as only a minor color. It's one of very
few creatures usable in type two that only cost one colored mana ot cast.
Ludwig Seitz
Sorry pal, but I still think it's one of the worst U1 Fallen Empires cards
and with Ice Age, 4th Edition, Cronicles and Homelands there are much better
creatures with only one colored mana. Having all your black spells casting
costs increased by one mana is quite a handicap for a 4/4 creature (it's
4/4 isn't it?) with no special abilities (sorry, no positive special
abilities).
--
Ludwig Seitz *** eMail un...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de
Stil
: GlennW2160 (glenn...@aol.com) wrote:
: > I've found the derelor to be extremely useful in decks of three or more
: > colors, or decks that carry black as only a minor color. It's one of very
: creatures with only one colored mana. Having all your black spells casting
: costs increased by one mana is quite a handicap for a 4/4 creature (it's
: 4/4 isn't it?) with no special abilities (sorry, no positive special
: abilities).
Ah, but if that is your only black component? You can make quite a nasty
deck utilizing things like derelors. A 4/4 for 4 mana is nothing to
scoff at. Let's look at this:
a deck utilizing derelor:
4 Derelor (of course)
4 Erhnam Djinn
4 Orgg
4 Dancing Scimitar
4 Mana Vault
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Fellwar Stones
4 Fireball
4 Mana Elves
4 Lightning Bolt
4 City Of Brass
4 Karplusan Forest
4 Sulfurous Springs
6 Forest
2 Mountain
There, a deck that consistently churns out big meanies, and doesn't
suffer from derelor's handicap.
John
-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-
The contraction "You're" does not indicate possessive. It indicates a
state of being, or, more commonly, a description of the person being
addressed.
The word "Your" does indicate possesive. It does NOT indicate a state of
being, or a description.
-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-
Jamie C. Wakefield
Does a juzam djinn suck because he hits you for a point
every round after you cast him? last I looked, he was
listing for about $80.
The point is he's a 4/4 for B3.
Very easy to get out, very soon. One less mana than a sengir means
a great difference considering that a lot of the time, you
don't have five land to lay down in a row. One more mana
most likely will be a couple of rounds later. Getting a
4/4 out early is great. One guy told me in a tournament,
"You should be using Derelor." and I told him I couldn't
afford to pay one more black for my spells.
"No," He says "You get it out early and then let your opponent
deal with it. A 4/4 has to be dealt with. When it dies, cast
another, or then move on to something else.
He was right, just like the erhnam, the juzam and any other
low cost/high power creature - They rock - pure and simple.
I'm using them, I love them, and I'm keeping em.
They come out early, and if they aren't gotten rid of,
well, the game is over.
Derelor's out?
Cast serrated arrows - no extra
Cast icy - no extra
cast Ivory tower - no extra
well, you get the idea.
later
jamie
Dave Choe
But what if the Derelors are still in play? The next one
costs 5, then 6, then 7 for a 4/4? Sheesh.
--
shih-jen hsu
Ok when I was a newbie and got Derelor I thought to myself what a crappy card
cuz now all my spells cost 1 extra (b). If I had 2 of them, then wow all my
spells are 2 extra, so off they go into trade... Now I wish I had some, cuz
imagine if you juxtaposed it to your oppoent who is not playing (b) ? wow,
no more spells for him (her) at all! :)
oh yeah, dont forget to block that 4/4 creature who will be very suicidal...
Jen
Jim Collins
> GlennW2160 (glenn...@aol.com) wrote:
> > I've found the derelor to be extremely useful in decks of three or more
> > colors, or decks that carry black as only a minor color. It's one of very
> > few creatures usable in type two that only cost one colored mana ot cast.
>
> Sorry pal, but I still think it's one of the worst U1 Fallen Empires cards
> and with Ice Age, 4th Edition, Cronicles and Homelands there are much better
> creatures with only one colored mana. Having all your black spells casting
> costs increased by one mana is quite a handicap for a 4/4 creature (it's
> 4/4 isn't it?) with no special abilities (sorry, no positive special
> abilities).
i think you are mistaken, if you throw in two derelors where you have
black as a very minor sweet, with cards such as pre-ban mind twist,
terrors or otther such you don't really care because you don't need to
cast a loarge amount of black spells, granted this is fairly limited but
it is the same cost as an erhnam and comes out just as fast.
James Collins
coll...@bird.library.arizona.edu
Stephan Valkyser
> > I've found the derelor to be extremely useful in decks of three or more
> > colors, or decks that carry black as only a minor color. It's one of very
> > few creatures usable in type two that only cost one colored mana ot cast.
>
> Sorry pal, but I still think it's one of the worst U1 Fallen Empires cards
> and with Ice Age, 4th Edition, Cronicles and Homelands there are much better
> creatures with only one colored mana. Having all your black spells casting
> costs increased by one mana is quite a handicap for a 4/4 creature (it's
> 4/4 isn't it?) with no special abilities (sorry, no positive special
> abilities).
> Ludwig Seitz *** eMail un...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de
Sorry Ludwig, but you don't seem to have encountered any serious players
using Derelors. A very common deck these days is the G/W Armageddon decks
with Erhnam Djinns and Autumn Willows (because she can't be terrored).
Some players play with Derelors instead of Autumn Willow, because the
Derelor is cheaper (by two mana) and also not terrorable. Oftentimes the
decks just contain two to four Derelors as their only black spells! The
black mana is provided by Birds of Paradise, Cities of Brass or Barbed
Sextants.
Personally, I rate the Derelor as one of the best creatures in all of
Dominia. 4/4 for four mana, bolt-proof, terror-proof. Only the Ernham
Djinn can keep up with the Derelor in Type II.
And last but not least: who needs to cast black spells when a 4/4 creature
is stomping over the opponent?
Stephan
**************************************************************************
* Stephan J. Valkyser email: ste...@valkyser.tng.oche.de *
**************************************************************************
Luke Pacholski
>GlennW2160 (glenn...@aol.com) wrote:
>> I've found the derelor to be extremely useful in decks of three or more
>> colors, or decks that carry black as only a minor color. It's one of very
>> few creatures usable in type two that only cost one colored mana ot cast.
>
>Sorry pal, but I still think it's one of the worst U1 Fallen Empires cards
>and with Ice Age, 4th Edition, Cronicles and Homelands there are much better
>creatures with only one colored mana. Having all your black spells casting
>costs increased by one mana is quite a handicap for a 4/4 creature (it's
>4/4 isn't it?) with no special abilities (sorry, no positive special
>abilities).
going to play it in a mono-black deck.. and like he said
its very useful in a three or four colour deck.. with black
as a minor colour.. then that extra B for black spells
doesn't matter... oh yeah.. what creatures did you find
in homelands that are relatively quick...
i know cronicles has the erhnam.. but HOMELANDS.. gimme a
break.. spectral bears.. Ha!
--
.ansi..
/|
\`o.O'
=(___)=
U
Cliff Stamp
> The point is he's a 4/4 for B3.
> Very easy to get out, very soon.
The only _one_ colored mana is very important.
> One guy told me in a tournament,
> "You should be using Derelor." and I told him I couldn't
> afford to pay one more black for my spells.
> "No," He says "You get it out early and then let your opponent
> deal with it. A 4/4 has to be dealt with. When it dies, cast
> another, or then move on to something else.
The only problem is this can cripple you if they can stop it without
killing it. And there are many ways to do so.
> I'm using them, I love them, and I'm keeping em.
I prefer them when they are the only black spells, then they have no
drawbacks and are very powerful.
--
Cliff Stamp "The higher we soar, the smaller we seem to
sst...@kelvin.physics.mun.ca those who cannot fly" - Friedrich Nietzsche"
Donais Jeff
Derelor only affects black spells...maybe you could sleight him after
juxtaposing him...kind of a big combo though,,,
Jeff
--------
Gamemaster: But why did you kill the kobold women and children?
Player: Because they aren't worth any experience points to us alive.
--------
Thierry Tremblay
> costs 5, then 6, then 7 for a 4/4? Sheesh.
Derelor is a fantastic monster. If you need more than 2 in
play to win, you deck is simply not working and the derelor(s)
haves nothing to do with it.
Ernham betters? I'm not sure... for one thing, derelor is far
less popular and would incite me to use it before using ernham.
I was using ernham since 4E came out, and now that everyone use
it, I don't use it anymore. Derelor can come very fast with
dark rituals...
And if you want some fun: opponent is not playing black?? Why not
juxtapose him your derelor, and then sleight it to is main color?
He won't be able to cast any more spell of that color if he can't
get a black mana... Be sure to have something to prevent him
from harming you though...
Have fun and creative, this is what magic is all about.
Thierry
the Muse
>
>jsh...@mason2.gmu.edu (Stil) wrote:
>>Ludwig Seitz (un...@rzstud1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) wrote:
>>: GlennW2160 (glenn...@aol.com) wrote:
>>: > I've found the derelor to be extremely useful in decks of three or more
>>: > colors, or decks that carry black as only a minor color. It's one of
very
>>
>>: costs increased by one mana is quite a handicap for a 4/4 creature (it's
>>: 4/4 isn't it?) with no special abilities (sorry, no positive special
>>: abilities).
>>
>>
>costs 5, then 6, then 7 for a 4/4? Sheesh.
That 4th Derelor may cost 7 but that means that you have at least 3 4/4
creatures in play. If you can't win with those three, then #4 isn't likely to
be very helpful.
I would add a despotic Scepter to the hypothetical deck to deal with Spirit
Link and other annoying anti-Derelor cards...
Kent
>
>
James Grahame
Dave Choe <dave...@utoronto.ca> wrote:
>jsh...@mason2.gmu.edu (Stil) wrote:
>>Ludwig Seitz (un...@rzstud1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) wrote:
>>: GlennW2160 (glenn...@aol.com) wrote:
>>: > I've found the derelor to be extremely useful in decks of three or more
>>: > colors, or decks that carry black as only a minor color. It's one of very
>>
>>: creatures with only one colored mana. Having all your black spells casting
>>: costs increased by one mana is quite a handicap for a 4/4 creature (it's
>>: 4/4 isn't it?) with no special abilities (sorry, no positive special
>>: abilities).
>>
>>Ah, but if that is your only black component? You can make quite a nasty
>>deck utilizing things like derelors. A 4/4 for 4 mana is nothing to
>>scoff at. Let's look at this:
>>
>>
>>There, a deck that consistently churns out big meanies, and doesn't
>>suffer from derelor's handicap.
>
>costs 5, then 6, then 7 for a 4/4? Sheesh.
Why do you keep on casting more Derelors? If your opponent can't
deal with the 4/4 menace that is Derelor, you don't need more critters;
pound him with the one you have out until he's dead. If he does destroy
Derelor, summon another for four mana. I have them in a mono black deck,
and they really are worth it.
James
Jamie C. Wakefield
Derelor. Used it in a tourney this weekend and It got me
well, third or first depending on how you look at it,
see my tourney report for the gory details. This creature
alone with a dark ritual made the opponent just about empty
his hand to no effect to get rid of him.
See the tourney report for details.
Also, It was a straight black deck.
Saying "you should only use a derelor in a 3-5 color deck"
is missing the point.
I use erhnam djinns in a straight green deck, and it is damn
rare that it is a disadvantage for all of the reasons other
people have listed. Give it to low power creatures, give it to
royal assassins, tims, oysters, wisps, or even another big
creature. Not to use such a great creauture for the VERY limiting
"upkeep" is insane.
Derelor, Erhnam, Juzam, they all go together.
Don't cast a Derelor then try to cast a bunch of other black
stuff.
Cast the derelor early, sit back, watch them panic.
They plow it? great, one less in hand and 4 life for you.
No terrors.
Two bolts,
a big fireball,
etc.
You don't just ignore a derelor because it's gonna cost
your opponent one more black.
Play the card and see, it works great.
hmmm,
just another reason to love fallen empires.
hmm,
Knights x4
derelor x 4
hymmn to tourach x4
bottomless vault x 4 for huge drain lifes
ebon stronghold x4 dor more early speed.
Mindstab thrull x4 for immense discard.
I think I might just have to go buy a BOX!
later
jamie
Stil
: jsh...@mason2.gmu.edu (Stil) wrote:
: >Ludwig Seitz (un...@rzstud1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) wrote:
: >: GlennW2160 (glenn...@aol.com) wrote:
: >Ah, but if that is your only black component? You can make quite a nasty
: >deck utilizing things like derelors. A 4/4 for 4 mana is nothing to
: >scoff at. Let's look at this:
: >
: >a deck utilizing derelor:
(the deck is deleted)
: But what if the Derelors are still in play? The next one
: costs 5, then 6, then 7 for a 4/4? Sheesh.
Why dave, then the opponent is dead, isn't she? If you have 1 derelor
out, that's trouble enough.
the_furry_one
the final creature cast from a thrull deck... get all the others out, then
the derelor (and with the champions)... ah, those days were great, when we
didn't build effective decks. :)
--
jet...@teleport.com "quotes are for mortals."
.signature files are a waste of bandwidth
Thierry Tremblay
>
> > Ok when I was a newbie and got Derelor I thought to myself what a crappy card
> > cuz now all my spells cost 1 extra (b). If I had 2 of them, then wow all my
> > spells are 2 extra, so off they go into trade... Now I wish I had some, cuz
> > imagine if you juxtaposed it to your oppoent who is not playing (b) ? wow,
> > no more spells for him (her) at all! :)
> >
> > oh yeah, dont forget to block that 4/4 creature who will be very suicidal...
>
> Derelor only affects black spells...maybe you could sleight him after
> juxtaposing him...kind of a big combo though,,,
I have seen a deck based on juxtapose/gauntlet of chaos... Very cut.
Had holwing mines/ornithopters/derelor with sleight/demonic hordes/...
Example: you have howling mine with derelor in play. You juxtapose (you get anything,
he get derelor which you sleight, he also get howling mine (wow), and you get his icy :) )
Thierry
Have fun, and be creative.
Lord Daroki
: un...@rzstud1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Ludwig Seitz) wrote:
: >GlennW2160 (glenn...@aol.com) wrote:
: >> I've found the derelor to be extremely useful in decks of three or more
: >> colors, or decks that carry black as only a minor color. It's one of very
: >
: >Sorry pal, but I still think it's one of the worst U1 Fallen Empires cards
: >and with Ice Age, 4th Edition, Cronicles and Homelands there are much better
: >costs increased by one mana is quite a handicap for a 4/4 creature (it's
: >4/4 isn't it?) with no special abilities (sorry, no positive special
: >abilities).
: going to play it in a mono-black deck.. and like he said
: its very useful in a three or four colour deck.. with black
: as a minor colour.. then that extra B for black spells
: doesn't matter... oh yeah.. what creatures did you find
: in homelands that are relatively quick...
: i know cronicles has the erhnam.. but HOMELANDS.. gimme a
: break.. spectral bears.. Ha!
game as well when I have the mana to make up for the drawback. Let's
picture something. You're not playing much black, so you have just a
couple of lands producing black. Someone is playing blue, Phantasmal
Terrains those lands to not produce black mana anymore, then *boof!*
that "black" changes to another color you're paying. You just shut
down one of your colors completely.
Bad card IMO, I only will use Delelor in a thrull deck, which I don't
play often because it doesn't have the flying and is too easily ripped
apart by a moat/island sancutary/flood.
: --
: .ansi..
: /|
: \`o.O'
: =(___)=
: U
--
Lord Daroki @ Oasis & Ancient Anguish :: dar...@aros.net
"I've got my faith, and I've got my prayers. But if push comes to shove,
I've also got a little something extra."
Cliff Stamp
> Saying "you should only use a derelor in a 3-5 color deck"
> is missing the point.
I said something similar, but my point was that in that type of deck it
has _no_ disadvantages (like an Erhnam where you have little or no
forests).
> I use erhnam djinns in a straight green deck,
Heh, aren't you the straight green sucks guy?
> and it is damn
> rare that it is a disadvantage for all of the reasons other
> people have listed. Give it to low power creatures, give it to
> royal assassins, tims, oysters, wisps, or even another big
> creature. Not to use such a great creauture for the VERY limiting
> "upkeep" is insane.
The problem is what to do when they can deal with the creature without
killing it (possible and common).
And the disadvantage is seen more so in the later stages of the game.
I think that you need to have a more balanced viewpoint the drawback
should not just be ignored.
Steven Liu
But the whole point of the Derelor is that it can be cast very early on; if
you wanted to wait until you have plenty of mana, the Sengir Vampire and
the Nightmare are better.
Imagine a R/g/b/u quick-kill deck with Atog, Mana Vault, Fireball, Serendib
Efreet, Erhnam Djinn, and Derelor. You can cast either the Derelor or the
Erhnam Djinn with a Mana Vault and a Mox anything on the first turn, then
followed by Atog (munching the 'Vault for two and maybe the Mox stone for
yet another two), and then by Serendib Efreet. It puts the opponent in
Fireball range in a hurry.
--
--Steve Internet: sl7...@u.cc.utah.edu
Damian O'Dea
> and with Ice Age, 4th Edition, Cronicles and Homelands there are much better
> creatures with only one colored mana. Having all your black spells casting
> costs increased by one mana is quite a handicap for a 4/4 creature (it's
> 4/4 isn't it?) with no special abilities (sorry, no positive special
> abilities).
Hey Ludwig, ever heard of Sleight of Mind?
In a pure Thrull deck, these can be pretty scary, especially if they
hit the table when there are two or three Thrull Champions out, and
one or two Bad Moons makes the whole thing quite sick, really.
ODie...
--
=== Damian O'Dea Damia...@dsto.defence.gov.au ===
=== Information Management/ITD ph:(08) 259 5839 fx:(08) 259 5619 ===
=== DSTO - Salisbury, P. O. Box 1500, Salisbury, SA 5108 ===
Jamie C. Wakefield
>
> On Sun, 14 Apr 1996, Jamie C. Wakefield wrote:
>
> > Saying "you should only use a derelor in a 3-5 color deck"
> > is missing the point.
>
> I said something similar, but my point was that in that type of deck it
> has _no_ disadvantages (like an Erhnam where you have little or no
> forests).
>
> > I use erhnam djinns in a straight green deck,
>
> Heh, aren't you the straight green sucks guy?
Thats me.
As a follow up, I'm also the guy that wishes they would fix straight
green so I can go back to playing my favorite color. Without some
"effective" tournament viable way of dealing with creatures, there
is no way I would ever play straight green in a tournament. Also,
Green doesn't suck, as some people think I was posting, just,
(as you posted above) straight green.
>
> > and it is damn
> > rare that it is a disadvantage for all of the reasons other
> > people have listed. Give it to low power creatures, give it to
> > royal assassins, tims, oysters, wisps, or even another big
> > creature. Not to use such a great creauture for the VERY limiting
> > "upkeep" is insane.
>
> The problem is what to do when they can deal with the creature without
> killing it (possible and common).
This is very true. I had a derelor tapped in the most recent tourney
and held down by an ice floe and it sucked. Later in the tourney
the derelors svaed me a number of times winning the game for me
when I played a black/red deck and got it early. No effective way for
him to get rid of it until he drew two bolts and had two mana on
the board. If cast early, it is devestating. I put the derelor in
the class with Force of nature. If you can get it out and they
have no way to hold it down, it can be a game winner. The disadvantage
can also hurt you. Better (as a tournament card) because if the hold
down the derelor, you can live with it. Its possible. They hold
down a force and you are screwed. They take away the land and you
are screwed.
>
> And the disadvantage is seen more so in the later stages of the game.
>
> I think that you need to have a more balanced viewpoint the drawback
> should not just be ignored.
>
You are correct, I cannot just ignore the very real
posssiblity that it may hurt me. Although when you have plenty
of mana, a 4/4 is always a good thing and the extra "B" will
make very little difference. I find it hurts me more in the middle
game when I can cast it, but need to do other stuff soon and
don't have the mana to support it.
> --
> Cliff Stamp "The higher we soar, the smaller we seem to
> sst...@kelvin.physics.mun.ca those who cannot fly" - Friedrich Nietzsche"
Later
jamie