THE type II DECK?

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Chritian Pantages

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Nov 1, 1995, 3:00:00 AM11/1/95
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Tapani Utriainen (d3ta...@dtek.chalmers.se) wrote:
: I have heard of a type II "THE DECK" - that has won a lot of tourneys.
: It should be red/white.
: Any information apppreciated.
You're probably talking about my mono black discard deck. Here
it is...
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Mind Twist
30 other random cards (doesn't matter, the card denial cards are
so ridiculous, I could be playing with walking dead or sengir bats and win)
4 dark rituals
21 lands

But, seriously, the yet unnamed Red/White deck was developed by
my former roomate and friend Brian Weissman. We both have been playing
it for about 4 or 5 months, and it has evolved into a ferocious tourament
competitor. Like the Type I 'the deck', many people all over the country
play it. I played v.2 of the red/white deck at Origins, and had a higher
constructed deck score than two of the national champions. Various
incarnations of this deck exist all over the US, some with more direct
damage, some with more angels, some with more Jesters Caps. I think that
these two versions are the most effective.
A short write-up about play strategy. This deck (much like mine
and Brian's different Type I decks) is built around the Jayemdae Tome.
The reason Mishras Factories and to a lesser extent Fellwar Stones exist
is as bait for artifact defense cards so you can bring out your Jayemdae
Tomes, and run them unhindered. The Savannah Lions and factories exist
as bait for swords, so that when the angel is brought out at the end of
the game, it can hit your opponent repeatedly without being killed. You
will see, version 1 (v.1) is much more geared around killing your
opponent with Angels and Tomes. If you are bringing out either late in
the game, Deflection protects both to a great extent. Jesters Cap is
also used as a reactive protective card (Brian originally got the idea
for putting the cap in to deal with mind twist. At least in our area, I
think that the cap exists to remove Armageddon and Balance. I went one
step further, and put Mind Twist in the deck to prevent people from
setting up perverted combos with either of those two cards everyone seems
to play with). In the absence of spoilers, I usually take out fireballs
or artifact defense. Version 2 (v.2) is much more suited to fight
against creature intensive decks and kill them most often with direct
damage. Version 2 is more of a quick kill deck (meaning around the
20-30th turn), while version 1 is built more to establish control, and
win much of the time only after you have gone through the deck at least
once.
Without further adieu, here is the red/white deck. Please send
mail to 'bri...@netcom.com' or 'tgoo...@netcom.com' if you have a good
name for this deck. Suggestions we've had so far (none of which are
particularly endearing) are:
*Fury and Purity
*the cookbook
*Repent, sinner!
*Red/artifact burn deck (mocking the Duelist calling every deck
in the Origins finals an 'artifact/burn' deck. Also, fits the version
that Adam Maysonet (SE Regional champ) plays (which is not really the
same deck at all) better.

Non-Mana:
4 Savannah Lions
4 Disenchant
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Serra Angels (v.2 - 2 serra angels)
3 Fireballs (v.2 - 1 pyrotechnics AND Mind Twist)
1 Pyrotechnics (or Mind Twist)
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Recall
2 Deflection (v.2 - 2 stormbind)
1 Jesters Cap
1 Zuran orb
1 Feldons Cane
4 Jayemdae Tome
33 cards 34 cards
Non-Mana:
3 Cities of Brass
3 Adarkar Wastes (v.2 - 3 Karplusian Forests
1 Sulf. Springs (replace with 4th Fellwar if not playing with mind twist)
4 Mishras Factories
4 Strip Mines
3 Fellwar Stones
4 plains
6 mountains
27 cards 27 cards
60 cards 61 cards
Sideboard:
3 Cop:Red
3 Meekstone
(thinking about replacing a cop red or Red E blast with another meekstone
to deal with Ernhams and scary Legends from homelands)
2 Pyroclasm
1 Pyrotechnics (can be replaced with another divine offering if you don't
play with mind twist)
3 Divine Offering
3 Red Elemental Blast

Adam Maysonet

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Nov 4, 1995, 3:00:00 AM11/4/95
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tgoo...@netcom.com (Chritian Pantages) wrote:

Yello there.

Thats exactly what the Duelist called my deck, the "Red/white burn
deck". Two of the Finland World Championship players were using it,
and one got 5th-6th place. (Henri Shildt). They had the second highest
team total. I've given copies to many people, and about 75% have won
first place with it the first time they used it.

I use jaymadae tomes to an extent, but the focus of my deck is the
Nevinyrral's Disks. With the simple press of a button, it wipes out
everything except land, and making a deck compatible with this card
allows for a greater advantage. Its faitly straight-forward, with
direct damage, mishras, and a low amount of permanents is the makeup.
The red is anti-creature and anti-player. The lions keep opponents
occupied, can be used as blockers, and can do just enough damage to
make a difference. Here is a listing of my deck, which I've been using
for a long time, coined it the "DDDD" - Direct Damage Disk Deck.

4 Nevinyrral's Disks
4 Lightning Bolts
4 Incinerates
4 Fireballs
4 Disintegrates
4 Mishra Factories
3 Disenchants
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Balance
2 Jaymadae Tomes
3 Strip Mines
4 Savanna Lions

2 Dwarven Ruins
4 Cities of Brass
9 Mountains
5 Plains

Sideboard
----------------
3 COP: Red (for use vs. red decks)
2 Pyroclasm (for use vs.weenie decks)
1 Disenchant
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Jester's Caps (to take out annoying sideboarded cards and trouble
cards)
4 Red Elemental Blasts (for use vs blue decks)
2 Land Taxes (for use vs discard and land destruction decks)

Unfortunately, there are never any type II tournaments in Florida (or
at least around me), so I hardly ever get to use it.

Adam Maysonet
Aladeptus
SE Regional Champion

alan_kohler

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Nov 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM11/6/95
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> David Suggs <david...@amd.com> writes:
> le...@gate.net (Adam Maysonet) wrote:

> >4 Nevinyrral's Disks
>
> [rest of deck deleted]


>
> >Unfortunately, there are never any type II tournaments in Florida (or
> >at least around me), so I hardly ever get to use it.

> Wow, the SE regional champion plays with a DC illegal deck! Nevinyrral's
> Disk is a restricted card. Shame on you!

Since when is the disk restricted? (flipping thru DC tourey rules)

Nope, not restricted in any DC rules I know of, sorry. Take a closer
look at your restricted list- and if it is still on there, check your sources!!!!


Big Al.


Adam Maysonet

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Nov 7, 1995, 3:00:00 AM11/7/95
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David Suggs <david...@amd.com> wrote:

>le...@gate.net (Adam Maysonet) wrote:
>>Thats exactly what the Duelist called my deck, the "Red/white burn
>>deck". Two of the Finland World Championship players were using it,
>>and one got 5th-6th place. (Henri Shildt). They had the second highest
>>team total. I've given copies to many people, and about 75% have won
>>first place with it the first time they used it.
>>
>>I use jaymadae tomes to an extent, but the focus of my deck is the
>>Nevinyrral's Disks. With the simple press of a button, it wipes out
>>everything except land, and making a deck compatible with this card
>>allows for a greater advantage. Its faitly straight-forward, with
>>direct damage, mishras, and a low amount of permanents is the makeup.
>>The red is anti-creature and anti-player. The lions keep opponents
>>occupied, can be used as blockers, and can do just enough damage to
>>make a difference. Here is a listing of my deck, which I've been using
>>for a long time, coined it the "DDDD" - Direct Damage Disk Deck.
>>

>>4 Nevinyrral's Disks

>[rest of deck deleted]

>>Unfortunately, there are never any type II tournaments in Florida (or
>>at least around me), so I hardly ever get to use it.
>>

>>Adam Maysonet
>>Aladeptus
>>SE Regional Champion

>Wow, the SE regional champion plays with a DC illegal deck! Nevinyrral's


>Disk is a restricted card. Shame on you!

>Sincerely,
>David

Ahhh, really? You sure about that?

Actually it's never been restricted, and nor will it ever (I hope,
since it's not that powerful of a card, just a good card).

Matthew Place

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Nov 9, 1995, 3:00:00 AM11/9/95
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Adam Maysonet (le...@gate.net) wrote:

: Ahhh, really? You sure about that?

: Actually it's never been restricted, and nor will it ever (I hope,
: since it's not that powerful of a card, just a good card).

Not that powerful?? It's one of the best cards in the game, in
type I and type II. It's easy to build a deck where it doesn't hurt
your deck, and can be a game winner every time it's drawn against other
types of decks. Haveing disks in your deck defenately limites the types
of decks you might lose to in a type II...

Matthew Place


Guy T. Rice

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Nov 13, 1995, 3:00:00 AM11/13/95
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In article <DHoDF...@txnews.amd.com>, David Suggs <david...@amd.com> wrote:

|David Suggs <david...@amd.com> wrote:
|>Nevinyrral's Disk is a restricted card.
|

|Oops. It is NOT restricted. I'm a dumb head. <grovel, grovel>
|
|Was it ever restricted, maybe back before type II even existed?
|I seem to have this persistent memory of the disk being restricted
|even though I don't see it on the list anywhere. Maybe it was
|restricted in a former life. :)

Maybe you're thinking of Balance, which almost does the same thing since
it's usually cast by the guy with no creatures in front of him...

Was Balance restricted because it was too powerful or because is prolonged
games by balancing everything out in the middle of the game?

-- Guy T. Rice -- "Walls of a castle are made out of stone,
-- <g...@winternet.com> -- Walls of a house out of bricks or of wood.
-- -- My walls are made out of magic alone,
-- Just my opinion; finger -- Stronger than any that ever have stood."
-- for standard disclaimer -- Chrysoberyl Earthsdaughter, Incantations

eriko

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Nov 13, 1995, 3:00:00 AM11/13/95
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I used to think that Dingus Egg was restricted... Didn't understand why.

Vidgame528

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Nov 13, 1995, 3:00:00 AM11/13/95
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Why is this deck so powerful? I've played with a similar deck for a
while and believe me, it SUCKS!
-------------------------------------------------------------

This .sig is under construction.

daca...@cris.com

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Nov 14, 1995, 3:00:00 AM11/14/95
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vidga...@aol.com (Vidgame528) wrote:

> Why is this deck so powerful? I've played with a similar deck for a
>while and believe me, it SUCKS!
>-------------------------------------------------------------

I wouldnt exactly state it the way you did, but I whole heartedly
agree.

Brett

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Nov 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM11/15/95
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In article <48bkjb$h...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
sirb...@aol.com (SirBrett N) wrote:
>Huh? This deck isn't that awesome. It's good for type 2, but I wouldn't
>call it THE Type II deck. I don't think you can actually come up with THE
>deck, that's what I like most about Magic. :)

Well, you obviously don't keep up with this group much if you've never heard of
the actual deck that is referred to as "The Deck". In which case I'll keep this
brief because you'll probably never see it...

Actually, it's fairly accurate to say you can't come up with "The Deck" for Type
II, though. You can have nearly the same basic theme, but with no Mana Drains
or Moats, it's just not the same. Besides, "The Deck" doesn't have much of a
theme to it, as far as looking at the cards. You'd have to add a bunch of stuff
for taking out the power cards.

/*==============================================================
|| |) |) [ -|-|- Brett Foster <foste...@osu.edu> ||
|| |) |\ [ | | http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~bfoster/ ||
|| ||
|| "Expect my visit when the darkness comes. ||
|| The night I think is best for hiding all." -Ouallada ||
==============================================================*/

Paul Barclay

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Nov 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM11/15/95
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> Huh? This deck isn't that awesome. It's good for type 2, but I wouldn't
> call it THE Type II deck. I don't think you can actually come up with THE
> deck, that's what I like most about Magic. :)

Hear, Hear.

daca...@cris.com

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Nov 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM11/15/95
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c-sc...@ti.com (Charles T. Schwope) wrote:

>Well, depends as what you consider "sucking."

>It is extremely effective, as reported by Adam Maysonet and many
>others. In fact for a couple of weeks near clones of it were winning
>at the Dallas tourneys.

snip snip

Actually, your right. I did construct the deck and extensively tested
it against other decks. It's quite good but seems to consistently
have problems against discard and fast big creatures deck
(Shivan/Ernham). I didnt gain enough confidence to play it in
tourneys.


Adam Maysonet

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Nov 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM11/15/95
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daca...@cris.com (daca...@cris.com) wrote:

>vidga...@aol.com (Vidgame528) wrote:

>> Why is this deck so powerful? I've played with a similar deck for a
>>while and believe me, it SUCKS!
>>-------------------------------------------------------------

>I wouldnt exactly state it the way you did, but I whole heartedly
>agree.

Both the deck Chris mentioned and my deck obviously don't suck, as
they have won many tournaments. My version of the deck was used by 2
of 4 players of the Finland team in the World Championships, and they
had the 2nd highest team total, along with one of the players (Henri
Shildt) making it to 5th-6th place overall.

Looks can be deceiving, and its best to playtest a deck first before
making judgements.

Charles T. Schwope

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Nov 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM11/16/95
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daca...@cris.com (daca...@cris.com) wrote:
>vidga...@aol.com (Vidgame528) wrote:
>> Why is this deck so powerful? I've played with a similar deck for a
>>while and believe me, it SUCKS!
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>I wouldnt exactly state it the way you did, but I whole heartedly
>agree.

Well, depends as what you consider "sucking."

It is extremely effective, as reported by Adam Maysonet and many
others. In fact for a couple of weeks near clones of it were winning
at the Dallas tourneys.

As far as how creative and fun it is, I think it sucks. (No offense
to anyone who uses inteneded.) Its very boring (Burn, Burn, Disk,
Burn ... etc), especially in the form that Adam posted. Doesn't mean
I wouldn't use it (in fact, the luck I've been having lately,
something simple might be the best), but I don't think I could use it
and enjoy it more than once or twice.

At tournaments, its often the "boring" decks that win. I know that I
had a R/W vice based deck that is probably the best Type II I've put
together. I don't use it now, b/c its boring as hell to play, but if
there was say... a Lotus tournament around here, I'd probably use it.


One thing is, the is no dominant deck, especially in type II. I have
the good fortune of playing with one world class player (IMHO), and it
seems that every week he come up with something new. And each time,
that deck can beat the one that he was playing the last week, but it
loses to something that the first one can beat. It never ends,
because it is impossible to have a deck that wins better than 2 out of
3 versus every kind of deck.

-Charles

--
Charles T. Schwope | Every man is a spark in the darkness. By the
aka CT | time he is noticed, he is gone forever, a
sch...@infrared.csc.ti.com | retinal afterimage that fades, and is obscured
c-sc...@ti.com | by newer, brighter lights.


Paul Barclay

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Nov 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM11/16/95
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> In article <48e5pi$5...@spectator.cris.com>, daca...@cris.com (daca...@cris.com) writes:
> >vidga...@aol.com (Vidgame528) wrote:
> >
> >> Why is this deck so powerful? I've played with a similar deck for a
> >>while and believe me, it SUCKS!
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >I wouldnt exactly state it the way you did, but I whole heartedly
> >agree.
> >
> >
> Actually, it is quite good. The last tournament that I was in the variation I
> used made it to the semifinals before I got knocked out.
> Pat

So it didn't win the tournament then?

Paul Barclay

P.S. Only joking.

Adam Maysonet

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Nov 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM11/16/95
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c-sc...@ti.com (Charles T. Schwope) wrote:

>As far as how creative and fun it is, I think it sucks. (No offense
>to anyone who uses inteneded.) Its very boring (Burn, Burn, Disk,
>Burn ... etc), especially in the form that Adam posted. Doesn't mean
>I wouldn't use it (in fact, the luck I've been having lately,
>something simple might be the best), but I don't think I could use it
>and enjoy it more than once or twice.

>At tournaments, its often the "boring" decks that win. I know that I
>had a R/W vice based deck that is probably the best Type II I've put
>together. I don't use it now, b/c its boring as hell to play, but if
>there was say... a Lotus tournament around here, I'd probably use it.


>One thing is, the is no dominant deck, especially in type II. I have
>the good fortune of playing with one world class player (IMHO), and it
>seems that every week he come up with something new. And each time,
>that deck can beat the one that he was playing the last week, but it
>loses to something that the first one can beat. It never ends,
>because it is impossible to have a deck that wins better than 2 out of
>3 versus every kind of deck.

I definately agree with this. That is, the DDDD isn't that fun to
play. Its very simple and effective, but there aren't many creative
things you can do with it in play. I have a type II tournament coming
up in a few weeks and I've been trying to come up with a mean
necropotence, titanias song, or enduring renewal theme. As for
dominant decks, your correct about that too. I've not seen a type II
deck consistantly win all the time (although I've seen some win the
majority of the time)

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