how to use Nature's Lore
jjchan
Nature's Lore (Search your library for a forest card and put that card
into play. Shuffle your library afterwards.)
How to use this card? What's the pros and cons if I replace it with a
normal forest land?
JJ
cep
whoa, you need to read the manual. Nature's Lore is a Sorcery, which
means it goes to the graveyard immediately after resolving. you dont
replace it with anything and you must do what it says. its affect is
to make you put a forest into play and shuffle your library. the pro
is that you get an extra land. depending on how your library was
ordered, it could be a pro or a con to shuffle it.
--
ceptor "at" keyway.net
to mail me, please remove "screwspam"
If a truly wise man knows nothing, then that makes me a genius.
jjchan
cep wrote:
>
> On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:31:45 +0800, jjchan <jjc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Nature's Lore (Search your library for a forest card and put that card
> >into play. Shuffle your library afterwards.)
> >
> >How to use this card? What's the pros and cons if I replace it with a
> >normal forest land?
> >
> >JJ
>
> whoa, you need to read the manual. Nature's Lore is a Sorcery, which
> means it goes to the graveyard immediately after resolving. you dont
> replace it with anything and you must do what it says. its affect is
> to make you put a forest into play and shuffle your library. the pro
> is that you get an extra land. depending on how your library was
> ordered, it could be a pro or a con to shuffle it.
>
No, no, I don't mean this.....
Imagine that you are creating a deck, which consist of 60 cards. After
building the first 59 cards, you think "what should be the 60th card?"
Now, what is the pros and cons of putting the following cards as the
60th cards?
a) Nature's Lore
b) A Forest
(What I mean 'replace' in my original means this. Sorry for wrong
wording)
Consider a). If I put a Nature's Lore and I draw it during the game, I
can use 1G to search the Library and put a forest card into play. If
I've not play any Land this turn, I can play one.
Consider b). If I draw a Forest (which is the one I replace the NL
during construction), I can simply put it into play. I can't play any
more land in this turn.
So, what is the pros and cons of using 1G to put a forest out of the
library? For quick killing? For deck thinning?
JJ
Tolun
jjchan <jjc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>No, no, I don't mean this.....
>Imagine that you are creating a deck, which consist of 60 cards. After
>building the first 59 cards, you think "what should be the 60th card?"
>Now, what is the pros and cons of putting the following cards as the
>60th cards?
>a) Nature's Lore
>b) A Forest
>(What I mean 'replace' in my original means this. Sorry for wrong
>wording)
>Consider a). If I put a Nature's Lore and I draw it during the game, I
>can use 1G to search the Library and put a forest card into play. If
>I've not play any Land this turn, I can play one.
>Consider b). If I draw a Forest (which is the one I replace the NL
>during construction), I can simply put it into play. I can't play any
>more land in this turn.
>So, what is the pros and cons of using 1G to put a forest out of the
>library? For quick killing? For deck thinning?
I believe that the "search your Library for a land and put it into
play" spells and effects don't count towards the one land per turn
limit. So, in theory, you could put a Forest in play on turn one, tap
it to cast a Mana Elf, another on turn two, tap the two forests to
cast Nature's Lore, and put a third Forest into play. Thus, you begin
turn 3 with 4 mana available, and if you play another Forest, that's
5, a considerable mana advantage over most decks... Though in order to
do this consistently, you'll have to have at least three each of the
NL and mana elves.
Personally, though, I'd get hold of a few of the Tempest uncommons
called Harrow if you want to do this. Same casting cost, I think, but
you sacrifice a land to search for and play two basic lands of your
choice. The lands don't come into play tapped, so essentially, you
"get back" the mana that you used to cast the spell, and if you're
playing more than one color, you can choose something other than
forests. In fact, if you just "splash" a color, and need a single land
of the appropriate type to be able to cast the spells you've included,
you can put two or three of these lands in the deck and use Harrow to
fetch them essentially for free.
Tolun
Warrl kyree Tale'sedrin
cep wrote in rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy:
>On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:31:45 +0800, jjchan <jjc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Nature's Lore (Search your library for a forest card and put that card
>>into play. Shuffle your library afterwards.)
>>
>>How to use this card? What's the pros and cons if I replace it with a
>>normal forest land?
It's fast mana, and one of the reasons a green fast-mana deck can be
land-short by normal standards. Turn 1: forest, elf. Turn 2: forest,
Nature's Lore another forest, Nature's Lore yet another forest, elf.
Turn 3: Force of Nature. (There are so many different ways of doing
this that the biggest problem with this combo is having only four
FoNs.)
>whoa, you need to read the manual. Nature's Lore is a Sorcery, which
>means it goes to the graveyard immediately after resolving. you dont
>replace it with anything and you must do what it says.
Replace: while sitting at home, not in the middle of a game, remove
the card in question from your deck and put in some other card
instead.
> its affect is
>to make you put a forest into play and shuffle your library. the pro
>is that you get an extra land. depending on how your library was
>ordered, it could be a pro or a con to shuffle it.
You change your library from one unknown order to a different unknown
order with one less land.
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Tolun
postm...@127.0.0.1 (Warrl kyree Tale'sedrin) wrote:
>cep wrote in rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy:
>> its affect is
>>to make you put a forest into play and shuffle your library. the pro
>>is that you get an extra land. depending on how your library was
>>ordered, it could be a pro or a con to shuffle it.
>You change your library from one unknown order to a different unknown
>order with one less land.
Except in instances where you've used Library stacking effects like
Brainstorm or Ancestral Knowledge, though this is certain to be
relatively rare in primarily green decks. Might even be to your
advantage if you just cast Impulse and made a tough choice about what
to put on the bottom...
Tolun
Mark Jenison
Without card look ahead options, it seems to me that Nature's Lore really only
gains you an advantage as opposed to a normal land if you draw it in your
initial hand and have two or more lands in your hand already to cast it:
Turn 1: drop forest
Turn 2: drop forest, play Nature's Lore for another forest
So you gain one extra land by turn 3. Getting it later in the game is just as
useful as drawing a forest. While it's not particularly useful in an all green
deck (since you can achieve the same thing with Wild Growth for one less mana),
it does complement a green/(other color) deck nicely.
I've found the card to be particularly useful when used in conjunction in my
green/red deck with Sylvan Library. Look ahead two draws and you don't see
anything good? Why not add a mana to your pool and reshuffle? :-)
--
Mark Jenison
YoungBeard
>Nature's Lore (Search your library for a forest card and put that card
>into play. Shuffle your library afterwards.)
>
>How to use this card? What's the pros and cons if I replace it with a
>normal forest land?
First, it's a pretty good way of getting an extra land in play. Turn 1, land,
elf. Turn 2, land, nature's lore. That's 3 land plus an elf in play on turn
2, and you still have two mana untapped to cast a River Boa or something.
Second, it takes a land card out of your deck, increasing your chances
(slightly) of drawing something besides a land card. This becomes important
later in the game when you already have plenty mana out.
Third, it shuffles your deck. Shuffling is good if you know you don't like
your top few cards (if using Sylvan Library or Scroll Rack, or something like
that).
I would not replace this card with a forest. Nature's Lore counts as an
"alternate" mana source, along with Llanowar Elves and Wall of Roots. Most
green creature decks use 16-20 land and 4-8 alternate mana sources, depending
on the size of their offensive spells and creatures. If you're using it just
for its library shuffling effect, there are better cards out there - such as
Gaea's Blessing.
hope I answered your question.
chris shefler
James Grahame
jjchan wrote:
>
> Nature's Lore (Search your library for a forest card and put that card
> into play. Shuffle your library afterwards.)
>
> How to use this card? What's the pros and cons if I replace it with a
> normal forest land?
Nature's Lore provides fast mana, allowing you to get something
with a high casting cost out of your hand faster than if it were a
forest.
It also thins your deck slightly ( it takes two cards out of your deck
when
cast, as opposed to only one with a forest ), increasing the density of
non-land cards. Finally, it allows you to shuffle your deck.
I have a fun deck called "Digging For Wurms" that I play with that
uses 4 Nature's Lores. The listing:
10 Islands
10 Forests
4 Wooly Spiders
4 Ray of Command - both for early defence
4 Impulse
4 Brainstorm
4 Portent
4 Nature's Lore - the "Digging" part
2 Krakilin
2 Cloud Djinn
1 Arnjlot's Ascent
4 Folk of the Pines
1 Dirtcowl Wurm
2 Johtull Wurm
4 Rootbreaker Wurm - the "Wurms"
In this deck, the Nature's Lores are used not only to get to high
mana totals faster ( allowing quick large creatures to be cast ), but
also
to allow shuffling of the deck ( either to get rid of unwanted cards
after
a Brainstorm, or one draw after Portent, or to unscramble the bottom of
the
deck after repeated Impulses ), and as part of a conscious strategy of
deck-
thinning ( 16 cards devoted to this ). Try fooling around with a deck
like
this and you should see exactly what the advantages and limitations of
Nature's Lore are.
James
PS - If anybody can think of a good replacement for the Krakilins that's
1-2-4 compliant, let me know. I'm leaning towards Scaled Wurms, but when
they were in the deck instead of the Rootbreakers they were too slow.
Christian Goijaarts
* Thursday January 15 1998, jjchan <jjc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
j> Nature's Lore (Search your library for a forest card and put that card
j> into play. Shuffle your library afterwards.)
j> How to use this card? What's the pros and cons if I replace it with a
j> normal forest land?
I think Nature's Lore is mostly used to put 2 forests into play in one turn
(land advantage, like Summer Bloom or Harrow). You could replace it with a
normal forest, but then you have only 1 land during each turn.
Greetings,
Chrus 'R Us
cep
On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:07:52 GMT, to...@ptdprolog.net (Tolun) wrote:
>>So, what is the pros and cons of using 1G to put a forest out of the
>>library? For quick killing? For deck thinning?
ah, i see. in your situation, i think its senseless to use a Nature's
Lore in place of a Forest. consider this - the next card you draw may
be either a Forest or a Nature's Lore. if its a Forest, you put into
play and have an extra mana to play with starting on that turn. if you
use Nature's Lore, you still only put out one Forest, but you use up
two of your other mana so you dont get the benefit of an extra land
until your next turn, and you're short one for the current turn.
because of its cost, its not really a quick-mana aid either, its more
of a multicolor helper - for instance, if you've got a two-color deck,
say green/red, and so far you've succeded in getting 1 mountain and 1
forest and you dont see any lands in your hand, and have some Cat
Warriors (1GG) you'd like to put out, then Nature's Lore would come in
handy - cast it for 1G (using up your mountan and forest), play an
additional forest, shuffle, and on your next turn you'll have the 1GG
required for Cat Warriors.
jjchan
Warrl kyree Tale'sedrin wrote:
>
> cep wrote in rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy:
>
> >>
>
> It's fast mana, and one of the reasons a green fast-mana deck can be
> land-short by normal standards. Turn 1: forest, elf. Turn 2: forest,
> Nature's Lore another forest, Nature's Lore yet another forest, elf.
> Turn 3: Force of Nature. (There are so many different ways of doing
> this that the biggest problem with this combo is having only four
> FoNs.)
>
Ah! Very good. I haven't think about using it at this way, i.e., using
two Nature's Lore in one turn to put two land on table. I use to use
Wild Growth to achieve the same result.
However, as you mention, the biggest problem is at most for WGs are
allowed in the deck. I always have a hand of big creatures and few land,
or a hand of mana generating cards. As you can see, after turn 3's draw
phase, you've totally get 9 cards from your library (assume you play
first). Among these 9 cards, there must be _at least_ 2 forest, 2 elfs,
2 Nature's Lore (or Wild Growth in my case), and one big creature you
want to put. I don't know the probability, but I'm always a man with no
luck.
JJ
cep
On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:05:08 +0800, jjchan <jjc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> It's fast mana, and one of the reasons a green fast-mana deck can be
>> land-short by normal standards. Turn 1: forest, elf. Turn 2: forest,
>> Nature's Lore another forest, Nature's Lore yet another forest, elf.
>> Turn 3: Force of Nature. (There are so many different ways of doing
>> this that the biggest problem with this combo is having only four
>> FoNs.)
wow. i missed that possibility completely. =]
Marcus Malden
cep...@screwspam.keyway.net (cep) wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:07:52 GMT, to...@ptdprolog.net (Tolun) wrote:
>
> >>So, what is the pros and cons of using 1G to put a forest out of the
> >>library? For quick killing? For deck thinning?
> because of its cost, its not really a quick-mana aid either, its more
> of a multicolor helper
I would agree with this partially, but it also very useful in a monogreen
deck. My thoughts about this card that I overlooked until it got into 5E
are:
Sorcery - "Search your library for a forest card and put that card into
play. Shuffle your library afterwards."
1) It says to search the library for a land, put it into play and shuffle
the library afterwards. By playing this spell, you have one less card
in your hand, one more land in play and lower the chance to draw another
land. (NL is perfectly useful if playing against a Black Vise/Land Dest.
deck). In the midgame you can play it to thin the deck, earlier you can
use it to provide mana on the third turn.
2) It says to search for a forest (not basic forest!) card. Taiga, Savannah
and other green duals count as a forest and may be put into play this
way. So it is best in a C5G deck with some duals that you can get.
3) You shuffle the library (as after each Tutor spell). This can help or
hurt (depending on your deck). There are four green library manipulation
spells in T2 that can make use of NL's shuffle ability, as do the 'bottom
of your library artifacts that are around there.
Strategy thoughts:
If playing with Quirion Elves, I would not use NL in my deck, but with the
1CC Llanowar Elves I would do so. Imagine a good start:
First turn: Forest, Elf. 2nd: Forest, Elf, Natures Lore, Elf. 3rd Turn:
six mana - and every turn thereafter. You can play with a higher CC ratio
than usual with these fetch spells.
I just thought that the Demonic Tutor had a somewhat different wording, but
I have seen people use it to get a specific land that they need. NL works
for them too, and would even put it into play (regardless if or if not you
played a land from your hand).
And you should not miss the opportunity to see your opponents face when he
gets some shadow creature out on turn three and you summon an Aboroth (then
another one the turn after). ;-))
Just some 0.02$
--
Marcus Malden (rp1...@online-club.de) http://online-club.de/m3/rp11910
What is denial? ..playing with four Interdicts in every deck.
Label them in different languages with a permanent marker:
'no!' - 'njet!' - 'non!' - 'nein!' ...then run against a vanilla deck...
ka...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
jjchan (jjc...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: Nature's Lore (Search your library for a forest card and put that card
: into play. Shuffle your library afterwards.)
: How to use this card? What's the pros and cons if I replace it with a
: normal forest land?
1) It lets you lay more than one land on that turn. Early game, that
gives you a speed jump on the next turn.
2) Casting it lets you get an additional forest in play without having to
draw it. This makes you (slightly) more likely to draw something other
than another land later in the game.
--
Randomness is not hypocrisy, if done with honesty.
In chaos, all is possible.
Christian Goijaarts
* Thursday January 15 1998, jjchan <jjc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
j> Consider a). If I put a Nature's Lore and I draw it during the game, I
j> can use 1G to search the Library and put a forest card into play. If
j> I've not play any Land this turn, I can play one.
No no no. Nature's Lore overrules the one-land-per-turn rule. You can play a
forest, pay 1G, search your library for a basic forest *and* put it into play.
That's the advantage and use of Nature's Lore.
j> Consider b). If I draw a Forest (which is the one I replace the NL
j> during construction), I can simply put it into play. I can't play any
j> more land in this turn.
That's correct. This proves the advantage of a Nature's Lore.
Greetings,
Chrus 'R Us
Christian Goijaarts
* Friday January 16 1998, James Grahame <James_...@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
JG> PS - If anybody can think of a good replacement for the Krakilins that's
JG> 1-2-4 compliant, let me know. I'm leaning towards Scaled Wurms, but when
JG> they were in the deck instead of the Rootbreakers they were too slow.
You could try a card like Natural Order: Blow away a creature to put
another into play. Would fetch you a Scaled Wurm for only 2GG! (Maybe a combo
with the Ray of Commands in your deck?)
Greetings,
Chrus 'R Us
Warrl kyree Tale'sedrin
cep wrote in rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy:
>On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:07:52 GMT, to...@ptdprolog.net (Tolun) wrote:
>
>>>So, what is the pros and cons of using 1G to put a forest out of the
>>>library? For quick killing? For deck thinning?
>
>ah, i see. in your situation, i think its senseless to use a Nature's
>Lore in place of a Forest. consider this - the next card you draw may
>be either a Forest or a Nature's Lore. if its a Forest, you put into
>play and have an extra mana to play with starting on that turn. if you
>use Nature's Lore, you still only put out one Forest, but you use up
>two of your other mana so you dont get the benefit of an extra land
>until your next turn, and you're short one for the current turn.
>because of its cost, its not really a quick-mana aid either, its more
>of a multicolor helper - for instance, if you've got a two-color deck,
>say green/red, and so far you've succeded in getting 1 mountain and 1
>forest and you dont see any lands in your hand, and have some Cat
>Warriors (1GG) you'd like to put out, then Nature's Lore would come in
>handy - cast it for 1G (using up your mountan and forest), play an
>additional forest, shuffle, and on your next turn you'll have the 1GG
>required for Cat Warriors.
Drawing a Nature's Lore in midgame is not useful. Unless you have a
Cadaverous Bloom in play.
A Nature's Lore in your initial hand or an early draw (while you still
have lands in hand) can be useful, because it can boost you up the
mana curve as early as turn 3. Particularly if you get the right
cards, the effect can be dramatic. The biggest problem with a fast
mana deck isn't coming up with 6 available mana on the third turn,
it's coming up with 6 available mana *and* a good *use* for it.
Usually you'll get one or the other.
I class green fast mana effects based on their immediate effect since
nearly all of them make 1 additional mana available as a permanent
effect. They are (in the order you should usually play them) 1-for-1,
2-for-2, 2-for-1, 3-for-1, 1-for-0, and 2-for-0. In each case of
X-for-Y you must be able to feed X mana (invariably including at least
one gree) into a combination but will have Y *new* mana available the
*same* *turn*. Intelligently using these combinations, I have emptied
my hand in 2 turns (including 2 draws) to have permanent sources of 9
mana available for turn 3, all in pure green without artifacts. More
than once.
Warrl kyree Tale'sedrin
Tolun wrote in rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy:
>postm...@127.0.0.1 (Warrl kyree Tale'sedrin) wrote:
>
>>cep wrote in rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy:
>
>>> its affect is
>>>to make you put a forest into play and shuffle your library. the pro
>>>is that you get an extra land. depending on how your library was
>>>ordered, it could be a pro or a con to shuffle it.
>
>>You change your library from one unknown order to a different unknown
>>order with one less land.
>
>Except in instances where you've used Library stacking effects like
>Brainstorm or Ancestral Knowledge, though this is certain to be
>relatively rare in primarily green decks. Might even be to your
>advantage if you just cast Impulse and made a tough choice about what
>to put on the bottom...
Well, if you *know* the current order and *like* it, you'd be really
silly to cast a spell that makes you reshuffle, wouldn't you?
Lone Wolf
In article <34BE9F...@bc.sympatico.ca>, James Grahame <James_...@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>jjchan wrote:
>>
>> Nature's Lore (Search your library for a forest card and put that card
>> into play. Shuffle your library afterwards.)
>>
>> How to use this card? What's the pros and cons if I replace it with a
>> normal forest land?
>
What about Llanowar Sentinels?
They have casting cost like 3XX (X cannot be more than 3, with 4 llanowar
sentinels in the deck). And for their cc they are pretty good!
Chris and Jennifer Dahl
It's even better than that, the card just says "any forest" - hmmm, Bayou counts as
a forest too, maybe I'll get one of those....
It's quite possible to have 1 Bayou, 1 Taiga, and 1 Savannah down by turn three,
providing 4 colours of mana for turn 4.
This can be very cool in extended, where dark heart of the wood sits as an excellent
replacement for the Zorb, and a 4 turn Tabi cat is not out of the question (at 5/5)
Cheers
Chris Dahl
Dwarves774
Nature's lore is simply a great card in play.
In my green speed deck, my best combo has been..
Turn 1- Forest, Elf
Turn 2- Forest, Lore, Lore, Elf
Turn 3- Forest, Force of Nature
WHO HERE doesn't like a third turn Force of Nature with the sufficient mana to
pay upkeep?
-DaeMoN
Roberto Parola
and you cant draw a bloody forest Force of Nature will kill you the
upkeep before it kills your opponent.
Btw... i bolt elves on sight.
Roby