Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.

Dismiss

Mike answers unasked questions on Mirage [LONG]

66 views

Skip to first unread message

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/16/96

Well, this worked so well with Delany did it for Alliances...lets try it here!

Disclaimer: All information I have on Mirage cards is the list posted at
Neutral Ground, so if I say something based on incorrect card text then it's
not my fault! [But please bring the error to my attention so I can fix my
list]

Disclaimer #2: Nobody has posted the `real' rules for how Phasing and Flanking
work.

Disclaimer #3: Anything I'm really not sure about, I've surrounded with
question marks ??? like this ???. TOM: Would you care to review these?
Statements marked !!! like this !!! I also want Tom to look at, but do not
signify things I am unsure of.

I'm not going to post the text of the cards I'm commenting on here; you can
get them yourself. This post will be long enough as it is.

Amulet of Unmaking, et al: `Play this ability as a Sorcery' This means
completely as a sorcery. You turn only, not in response to anything, not
during combat, etc.

Basalt Golem: The golem does not need to survive combat to turn blocking
creatures into statues.

Bone Mask: Can be used with an empty library (or a library with less cards
than the damage you are taking). The damage is still prevented, no ill effect
happens from failing to `mill' those cards.

Chariot of the Sun: Current toughness becomes 1.

Grinning Totem: The card is not really in your hand (just like Elkin Bottle's
card).

Lion's Eye Diamond: You discard your hand -before- you get the mana.

Mana Prism: Makes Celestial Prism kinda useless.

Mangara's Tome: Use it during the resolutoin of a draw effect. Can be used
with Al's Lamp to modify one of the Lamp draws. [In fact, using the lamp for
5, and using M's Tome 5 times lets you select one of those 5 cards and return
the rest to your library...] M's Tome sits in play useless once all 5 cards
are gone. You can spend mana on the ability when there are no cards on M's
tome, and you'll lose your draw.

Phyrexian Dreadnaught: Total current toughness of 12 or more.

Sand Golem: Only works on forced discards. [Ie, can't use it on Mind Bomb, or
Land Tax for example, even if those are cast/controlled by an opponent].

Teeka's Dragon: `Counts as a Dragon' is exactly the same as saying `Summon
Dragon' -- except that it is not a summon spell/card. [Rampage: 4?!]

Ventifact: Yes, you can use mana from the V to put it back onto the V (minus
1) if you can untap the V first. Basically save all of your unused mana!
Must take the mana, whether you want it or not.

Barbed Back Wurm: Combination pumping and double-first strike! Even makes
chile and fries! :-)
{Will not break; will not break....}

Blinding Agony: Unprevented damage only -- just like Spirit Link.

Bone Harvest: You choose the order of the cards

Breathstealer: Cannot go past 4/0 (or */0) because it will die immediately
upon resolution and not get to the rest of the stack. [ie, can't make it 9/-5
to gain 9 life from a Swords to Plowshares]

Catabomb Dragon: current power.

Choking Sands: Cannot target swamp/* multilands. Can target immitation swamps
(like Lake of the Dead).

Drain Life: This wording has you gain life equal to what you spend on the
spell, not equal to the amount of sucesfully dealt damage. The limit of life
gaining is the creatures toughness or players life total when you announce the
spell, not when the spell resolves. [Both of these are different than the 4E
Drain Life]

Dread Specter: Does not need to survive combat to destroy blocking/blocked
creatures.

Ebony Charm, et al: You must still select all targets so this spell targets an
opponent and a creature regardless of what ability you want to use. this
means you can't use it if there are no targetable creatures in play, and it
cannot be Deflected (since it has 2 targets). !!! Tom, this should change
because some of the spells worded like this (Chaos Charm) require a very
specific target type for one of the spells alternatives (in this case a target
wall) which makes the spell very weak. !!!

Ivory Charm: !!! Okay, Tom. This rule must be changed. If we use your old
rule about having to select all targets at announcement time, then this spell
can only be cast during Damage Prevention when there is damage for the `middle
fork' to target; but none of the other forks are legal during damage
prevention, so this spell is USELESS. !!!

Forsaken Wastes: Spells which fizzle are still considered `sucessfully cast'.
??? Only applies when Forsaken Wastes is in play. [Counterspelling FW will
not cause loss of life] ???

Grave Servitude, et al: `Play as an instant, bury at end of turn'; can still
be targetted as an enchantment while in play -- you can just drop it on a
creature at Instant speed.

Infernal Contract: If you have negative or zero life, you don't have to pay
any life (because half of zero is zero). You don't gain any life. [Eg, if
you have -4 life, you don't gain 2 life to go to -2] Cool card with Lich.

Kaervek's Hex: Green creatures receive 2 damage in one packet. Remember that
a spell/effect which deals damage multiple times to the same creature/player
during the -same effect- has all of the damage meld together into a single
packet.

Purraj of Urborg: Loses first strike at end of combat or whenever he is
removed from combat.

Reign of Terror: Can go below zero life; the life is not a payment.

Shallow Grave: I guess `summoning sickness' is an official phrase now.

Shauku, Endbringer: The upkeep effect is just that -- an effect. You can use
her special ability on herself (or something else) before dealing with the
upkeep effect.

Skulking Ghost: ??? The spell/effect must be sucessfully cast ??? The ghost
is buried before the spell/effect can resolve.

Soul Rend: Can be targetted at a non-white creature (and slieghted to make it
work). Will not fizzle if the creature is non-white so you can still draw a
card.

Soulshriek: * is determined when Soulshriek resolves.

Stupor: Can be used if opponent has one (or zero) cards in their hand.

Urborg Panther: Ability can be used even if you know that Spirit of the Night
is not in your library.

Bazaar of Wonders: Note that spells go to the graveyard when they resolve, so
you can cast two lightning bolts; one in response to the other; without either
being countered. Language doesn't matter for determining card names. Can
counter mana sources (like Dark Ritual).

Dream Fighter: ??? If blocked by more than one creature, all such creatures
phase out. ??? If DF is a member of an attacking band, other members of the
band are still blocked, but are still attacking (and don't phase out).

Ether Well: ??? Checks `redness' at announcement; if it is red, you get the
choice of where to put the creature. If you choose to put it at the bottom of
the library and the creature is not red when the spell resolves, then it
fails. ???

Hakim, Loreweaver: Only checks the `no enchantments' restriction at
announcement, so you can use the ability more than once (in response to
itself) to place multiple enchantments on Hakim.

Jolt: Based on a soda of the same name. :-)

Kukemssa Pirates: Having stolen an artifact doesn't prevent them from stealing
another one next turn. You keep the artifacts even if the Pirates leave play.

Meddle: ??? Spell can have other targets, as long as those other targets do
not target creatures. If Meddled with, only the `fork' of the spell
targetting a creature is affected. ???

Mind Bend: Hack or Sleight.

Mind Harness: If the enchanted creature stops being red or green, Mind Harness
is buried. If the creature goes from being green to being red (or vice
versa), Mind Harness will not be buried. Can be played on multicolored cards
that are part green or part red.

Mist Dragon: Both gaining and losing flying are permanent.

Political Trickery: Switch does not happen if one of the two targets becomes
illegal.

Polymorph: Nothing bad happens if you cannot find a creature card in their
library. Just shuffle the library and continue. [The target creature is
still buried]

Prismic Lace: Cannot make a permanent colorless. Can make a permanent
multicolored.

Psychic Transfer: Comparison done at resolution.

Ray of Command: !!! Target creature still has summoning sickness; does not
untap the creature !!! [Different from IA version of card]

Shimmer: ??? Is not restricted to basic land types. `Maze of Ith' can be
chosen. ??? Cannot choose Snow-covered Xxx since SC is a qualifier. If
`Swmaps' are chosen, then both swamps and SC swamps are affected.

Asmira, Holy Avenger: Does not have to be in play when the creature die -- it
can get a counter for creatures that died this turn before Asmira entered
play.

Delirium: [Multiplayer only] Cannot be d/reflected to another opponent since
it is not their turn, so they are not a legal target.

Haunting Apparition: Ability sets the creature's base power (since it is
changing the * in the corner of the card).

Kaervek's Plague: `not put into the graveyard' includes regeneration but also
any other way it can avoid the graveyard (a prior Disintegrate). Cards which
go to the graveyard but don't stay there (eg, Enduring Renewal, token
creatures, etc) will not trigger this.

Leering Gargoyle: Can block a flying creature, then use it's ability to become
0/4. It still blocks the flyier.

Prismatic Boon: All creatures gain protection from the same color.

Purgatory: Can pay (4) and 2 life more than once to put more than one creature
into play.

Reparations: Card draw is optional. Can draw a card for fizzled (but not
countered) spells.

Sawback Manticore: Does not have to use it's second ability on a creature
Sawback is blocking -- can be used on any attacking/blocking creature.

Sealed Fate: If the library contains zero cards, do nothing. If it contains
at least 1 but less than X, remove 1 and put the rest in any order. If X is
zero, do nothing.

Warping Wurm: Doesn't matter how it phases out -- it gets the counter when it
phases back in.

Afiya Grove: If this (somehow) gets animated, the counters on it really will
act as +1/+1 counters for Afiya Grove. Can only use these particular 3 +1/+1
counters -- cannot use +1/+1 counters from any other source.

Cycle of Life: Creature's -base- power and toughness become 0/1. Really cool
to use on normally 0/1 or 1/1 creatures.

Decomposition: Upkeep is actually on the creature. If not paid, this is the
creature self-destructing, so it cannot be saved. You cannot use abilities of
that creature until the upkeep is paid.

Early Harvest: Will not untap multilands. The fact that this is an instant
almost proves that there will be no eratta to make Ley Druid's land untapping
`faster' than Instant speed.

Hall of Gemstone: Amount of mana remains the same; restrictions on mana are
preserved. If `blue' is chosen, then Mishra's Workshop produces (UUU) that
can only be used for artifacts.

Jungle Worm: ??? Why not say `Rampage: -1' ???

Maro: Base power and toughness

Mindbender Spores: The fungus spores have the abilities; not Mindbender.
Removing Mindbender from play will not change how fast affected creatures
untap.

Natural Balance: Players are not required to search their library at all; if
they do, they must bring their land total up to exactly 5 (or put all of their
basic land into play, if they do not have enough to get up to 5).

Roots of Life: You gain life when SC Islands (or SC Swamps) are tapped. Also
gain life for the multilands being tapped, even if they are tapped for their
`other' mana.

Serene Hart: Neutral Ground card list says `destroy a local enchantments' --
??? should be `destroy all local enchantments' ???

Tropical Storm: Blue flying creatures take X+1 damage total.

Uktabi Wildcats: Base power and toughness = forests.

Bad River, et al: Can retrieve multilands that are part island or swamp.

Aleatory: You always draw a card -- you don't have to win the coin toss.

Blind Fury: Does not prevent you from giving back trample to a creature later.
Full doubled damage will still trample. Unblocked creatures will not have
their damage doubled. Does not change any creature's power -- the doubling
happens during damage dealing, not when Blind Fury resolves.

Crimson Roc: The +1/+0 and first strike are only applied if the creature
doesn't having flying when the block is announced. Giving or removing flying
from the creature later will not add or remove the +1/+0/first strike bonus.

Final Fortune: ??? If you skip (or otherwise fail to take) the extra turn,
then you do not have to deal with the `lose game at the end of that turn' ???

Illicit Auction: You may skip a round of bidding, and if the bidding gets back
to you, you can still make a bid. [Eg, 3 player game, A bids 0, B bids 1, C
passes, A bids 2, B passes, C can make a bid]. Aution ends when everyone
passes. You can make a bid that is greater than your life total; you lose
life rather than pay life to this effect. Losing bidders do not lose any
life.

Incinerate: !!! Must sucessfully damage the creature to prevent regeneration,
not merely be targetted by the creature. [Different than IA version with
eratta]. Note that with the change in damage prevention timing, damage
becomes sucessfuly dealt -before- you regenerate so the side effect of the
damage can be `applied' fast enough. !!! !!! Tom: Should IA Eratta be removed
b/c it is no longer necessary? !!!

Kaervek's Torch: The extra (2) is not part of the casting cost.

Sirocco: ??? 1st - 4th edition Interrupts that count as `Mana Source' or
`Instant' cards under 5th edition are not counted. (like Reset). ??? Dual
Instant/Interrupt cards (Blue Elemental Blast) do count.

Torrent of Lava: Not that it matters much, but the acquired ability is
permanent and can be used on other Torrent of Lava spells. Note that this
matters only if you redirect damage from a 2nd Torrent of Lava to a creature
affected by the first (and the 2nd ToL doesn't affect it).

Benevolent Unicorn: All spells, all creatures. It's not selective. Works on
`unpreventable damage' like Lava Burst. Justice and Eye for an Eye will still
`see' the original damage, not the reduced damage.

Dazzling Beauty: This won't slow down tramplers much. Can be used on
attackers with blocking restrictions because these restrictions affect
creatures that want to block rather than the actual blocked/not blocked status
of the attacker.

Divine Retribution: Boy is this card text unclear... I think it means that if
you attack with 5 creatures, then DR will deal 5 damage to one of those
attackers.

Null Chamber: Cards already in play are unaffected; only prevents the casting
(or whatever for lands) and does not affect cards that are brought into play
by any other way.

Prismatic Circle: Note that since you open up a damage prevention step for
each spell/effect immediately after it is resolved, this circle acts just like
the 4E CoP's; the `packeting' language is no longer needed. [If you
pestilence 3 times you end up with 3 separate damage prevention steps]

Shadowbane: Note that you gain no life if Ghostly Flame is out because the
damage is colorless, not black.

Soul Echo: You do not lose if there are no counters to remove from Soul Echo
-- you'll still be alive. If you run out of counters, and have negative life,
then you'd lose at the end of your upkeep after Soul Echo is buried.

Wall of Resistance: Note that it must survive the damage to get the counter.
If it regenerates, it still gets the counter.

Daniel M Gray

unread,

Sep 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/16/96

"Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> writes:

>Well, this worked so well with Delany did it for Alliances...lets try it here!

>Disclaimer: All information I have on Mirage cards is the list posted at
>Neutral Ground, so if I say something based on incorrect card text then it's
>not my fault! [But please bring the error to my attention so I can fix my
>list]

>Disclaimer #2: Nobody has posted the `real' rules for how Phasing and Flanking
>work.

See my previous post quoting from the Mirage rulebook. In essence--
any creature without Flanking that blocks a Flanker gets -1/-1 until end of
turn. Permanents with Phasing phase out at the beginning of your untap
phase if and only if they are in play, and phase back in at the beginning of
your untap phase if and only if they are currently phased out. Permanents
that phase out tapped phase in tapped(and, if still under the control of the
player whose turn they phase in on, immediately untap during the untap
phase). Permanents that phase in do not suffer summoning sickness. Tokens
which phase out do not phase in and are gone forever. Phasing out also snaps
any effects targeting a creature when it phases out(so, control granted to
you of a permanent by Seasinger or Aladdin would snap, but that granted by
Control Magic or Steal Artifact would not. Tom wasn't sure how Ritual of the
Machine would work when someone asked this at the Atlanta players' meeting).
Counters and enchantments on a phasing permanent phase out with it, and
remain when it phases back in. "Comes into play" costs/effects do not
reprocess when the permanent phases in.

>Disclaimer #3: Anything I'm really not sure about, I've surrounded with
>question marks ??? like this ???. TOM: Would you care to review these?
>Statements marked !!! like this !!! I also want Tom to look at, but do not
>signify things I am unsure of.

>I'm not going to post the text of the cards I'm commenting on here; you can
>get them yourself. This post will be long enough as it is.

>Amulet of Unmaking, et al: `Play this ability as a Sorcery' This means
>completely as a sorcery. You turn only, not in response to anything, not
>during combat, etc.

This also applies to Tainted Specter, and possibly a couple of
others I haven't caught yet.

>Lion's Eye Diamond: You discard your hand -before- you get the mana.

It is in fact written as a cost, so you lose your hand as soon as
you declare it. The discard is also forced, so you could use Library of
Leng.

>Mana Prism: Makes Celestial Prism kinda useless.

Makes Celestial Prism lotsa useless :) I mentioned this to Charlie
Catino when I first saw the card, and he noted that School of the Unseen and
Mystic Compass had already pretty much outmoded the Prism.

>Mangara's Tome: Use it during the resolutoin of a draw effect. Can be used
>with Al's Lamp to modify one of the Lamp draws. [In fact, using the lamp for
>5, and using M's Tome 5 times lets you select one of those 5 cards and return
>the rest to your library...] M's Tome sits in play useless once all 5 cards
>are gone. You can spend mana on the ability when there are no cards on M's
>tome, and you'll lose your draw.

Quite the fun interaction. Makes me sort of glad Aladdin's Lamp
costs so much :)

>Phyrexian Dreadnaught: Total current toughness of 12 or more.

Kevin Endo and I figured that a pair of Ball Lightnings(assuming no
other global P/T bonuses like Crusade in play) is the cheapest way to get
this bad boy into play.

>Ebony Charm, et al: You must still select all targets so this spell targets an
>opponent and a creature regardless of what ability you want to use. this
>means you can't use it if there are no targetable creatures in play, and it
>cannot be Deflected (since it has 2 targets). !!! Tom, this should change
>because some of the spells worded like this (Chaos Charm) require a very
>specific target type for one of the spells alternatives (in this case a target
>wall) which makes the spell very weak. !!!

These will require a rules change. Mike is technically correct, but
we were ruling them so that you pick one ,then pick appropriate target(s).
Chaos Charm would definitely be pointless otherwise.

>Ivory Charm: !!! Okay, Tom. This rule must be changed. If we use your old
>rule about having to select all targets at announcement time, then this spell
>can only be cast during Damage Prevention when there is damage for the `middle
>fork' to target; but none of the other forks are legal during damage
>prevention, so this spell is USELESS. !!!

Also true.

>Forsaken Wastes: Spells which fizzle are still considered `sucessfully cast'.
>??? Only applies when Forsaken Wastes is in play. [Counterspelling FW will
>not cause loss of life] ???

Good question on that last one. I'd tend to agree with Mike.

>Grave Servitude, et al: `Play as an instant, bury at end of turn'; can still
>be targetted as an enchantment while in play -- you can just drop it on a
>creature at Instant speed.

This was a frequent question in Atlanta, and this was how we ruled
it. I didn't ever actually consult Tom on this one at the tournament, since
I figured I was right :)

>Infernal Contract: If you have negative or zero life, you don't have to pay
>any life (because half of zero is zero). You don't gain any life. [Eg, if
>you have -4 life, you don't gain 2 life to go to -2] Cool card with Lich.

True. Also a good card in the mid- to late game, especially in
combination with Necropotence or Soul Echo.

>Reign of Terror: Can go below zero life; the life is not a payment.

True. This also applies to Forsaken Wastes.

>Shallow Grave: I guess `summoning sickness' is an official phrase now.

It is. It's officially defined on page 14 of the Mirage rulesbook.
It basically says the old "no attack/no use tap abilities" things, followed
by, "This is referred to as summoning sickness, as it normally applies to a
creature you've just summoned, but it applies to all of your creatures
regardless of how they came under your control." The phrase "is unaffect by
summoning sickness" appears on both the Volcanic Dragon and the Talruum
Minotaur.

>Skulking Ghost: ??? The spell/effect must be sucessfully cast ??? The ghost
>is buried before the spell/effect can resolve.

It need not be successfully cast. As soon as the Ghost is declared
as a target, the ability triggers and the Ghost gets buried. This came up a
ton in Atlanta and was officially ruled by Tom to work this way.

>Dream Fighter: ??? If blocked by more than one creature, all such creatures
>phase out. ??? If DF is a member of an attacking band, other members of the
>band are still blocked, but are still attacking (and don't phase out).

Correct. This also came up several times in Atlanta, ans was ruled
to work this way not only by Tom but by Mark Rosewater and Bill Rose as
well.

>Ether Well: ??? Checks `redness' at announcement; if it is red, you get the
>choice of where to put the creature. If you choose to put it at the bottom of
>the library and the creature is not red when the spell resolves, then it
>fails. ???

Would tend to make sense.

>Jolt: Based on a soda of the same name. :-)

Based on a soda popular with Magic players everywhere, since there
is a well-known pro tournament bylaw which reads, "Neither players nor
judges nor WotC staff shall sleep at a pro tournament or con unless rendered
unconscious by the impact of a large object to the head or an actof God." :)

>Mist Dragon: Both gaining and losing flying are permanent.

Making the Mist Dragon one cool critter. THis also applies to the
green dragon(whose name escapes me) who can flip-flop between Flying and
Trample.

>Polymorph: Nothing bad happens if you cannot find a creature card in their
>library. Just shuffle the library and continue. [The target creature is
>still buried]

Believe it or not, according to Don Felice(one of Mirage's
designers), the originaly version of this actually worked like Demonic
COnsultation-- a player removed the top card of his/her library from the
game until a creature popped up. Talk about the ultimate creatureless deck
hoser.

>Ray of Command: !!! Target creature still has summoning sickness; does not
>untap the creature !!! [Different from IA version of card]

I think this may be a problem with Neutral Ground's list. The Ray of
COmmads I saw read and worked just like the IA version. Would be a mostly
worthless card otherwise.

>Asmira, Holy Avenger: Does not have to be in play when the creature die -- it
>can get a counter for creatures that died this turn before Asmira entered
>play.

Right. She(it is a she, BTW) works just like the Khabal and
Scavenging Ghouls.

>Cycle of Life: Creature's -base- power and toughness become 0/1. Really cool
>to use on normally 0/1 or 1/1 creatures.

The Mirage rulebook now specifically states that when a spell or
effect changes a creature's power/toughness to specific numbers, it ALWAYS
means the base numbers.

>Jungle Worm: ??? Why not say `Rampage: -1' ???

Good question. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that Rampage is
defined as "Rampage: X," and it's a game convention that anything with X
cannot be a negative integer.

>Maro: Base power and toughness

Interesting art, BTW. I'm still not sure how much it looks like Mark
Rosewater, but I see a slight resemblence(although Mark looks neither like a
gorilla nor does he have large branches growing out of his mouth :)

>Serene Hart: Neutral Ground card list says `destroy a local enchantments' --
>??? should be `destroy all local enchantments' ???

Yes, that's a typo. Serene Heart is the opposite of Tranquil
Domain-- it destroys ALL local enchantments.

>Final Fortune: ??? If you skip (or otherwise fail to take) the extra turn,
>then you do not have to deal with the `lose game at the end of that turn' ???

That would tend to make sense. This only really applies to Time
Vault.

>Sirocco: ??? 1st - 4th edition Interrupts that count as `Mana Source' or
>`Instant' cards under 5th edition are not counted. (like Reset). ??? Dual
>Instant/Interrupt cards (Blue Elemental Blast) do count.

This looks in the player's hand for all blue or part blue cards with
spell type "Interrupt." Old interrupts that now play as instants all the
time(like Reset) or mana sources(Dark Ritual, etc.) have universal errata to
that effect, and are thus not interrupts. This really only applies to Reset,
if memory serves(unless someone's got a Sleighted Celestial Dawn in play).

>Divine Retribution: Boy is this card text unclear... I think it means that if
>you attack with 5 creatures, then DR will deal 5 damage to one of those
>attackers.

It is a tad unclear. It means simply, you cast it(the only casting
decision is the target), and when it resolves it deals 1 damage for each
creature currently attacking to the target. Yes, this means that if you cast
it, and then somehow remove one or more attacking creatures before it
resolves, it will reduce the amount of damage Divine Restribution deals.
This came up twice in Atlanta(at least in the questions I answered), and
this is how I ruled it. Tom agreed when I asked him about it later.

>Soul Echo: You do not lose if there are no counters to remove from Soul Echo
>-- you'll still be alive. If you run out of counters, and have negative life,
>then you'd lose at the end of your upkeep after Soul Echo is buried.

Correct. You cannot lost by having less than 1 life until Soul Echo
acutally leaves play. Also, note that if Soul Echo remains in play, the
target opponent MUST choose at the beginning of your upkeep whether damage
that player deals is to Soul Echo's controller or will remove counters from
Soul Echo. This came up in Atlanta, and was the way it was ruled.
Dan Gray

Cpaths

unread,

Sep 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/16/96

As Mike indicates, Mind Bend is probably intended to be the equivalent of
either a hack or sleight. But the Neutral Ground text does not say that:

Change the text of target permanent by replacing all instances of one
color word or basic land type with another.

The above sentence allows you, in my highly unoffical opinion, to replace
"white" by "swamp".

Imagine casting a Bent Holy Light to give -1/-1 to all non-swamp creatures.

Changing a land type to a color word tends to result in gibberish,
but not always. Imagine changing "swamp" to "red" on this card:

Green Nature's Wrath aR2 4GG
Enchantment
During your upkeep, pay <G> or bury Nature's Wrath. Whenever a player
puts a swamp or black permanent into play, he or she sacrifices a swamp
or black permanent. Whenever a player puts an island or a blue permanent
into play, he or she sacrifices an island or a blue permanent.

- toby robison to...@voxware.com
The opinions I express are often the opinions of Voxware, Inc., but NOT NOW.

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/17/96

George W. Bayles <gba...@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> wrote in article
<51mfop$l...@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>...
| Mike Marcelais (mich...@microsoft.com) wrote:
| [snip]
| : Amulet of Unmaking, et al: `Play this ability as a Sorcery' This means

| : completely as a sorcery. You turn only, not in response to anything, not
| : during combat, etc.
|

| Can you Fork it?

No, it's not a spell. Just like you can't fork normal fast effects but you
can fork Instant spells, even though both of them are played as Instants.

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/17/96

| >Disclaimer #2: Nobody has posted the `real' rules for how Phasing and
Flanking
| >work.
|
| See my previous post quoting from the Mirage rulebook.

Yes, that post -finally- arrived at my newsreader today. Anyway, I didn't see
anything strange being done with those two abilities.

| >Amulet of Unmaking, et al: `Play this ability as a Sorcery' This means
| >completely as a sorcery. You turn only, not in response to anything, not
| >during combat, etc.
|
| This also applies to Tainted Specter, and possibly a couple of
| others I haven't caught yet.

That's what the `et al' means. :-)

|
| >Lion's Eye Diamond: You discard your hand -before- you get the mana.
|
| It is in fact written as a cost, so you lose your hand as soon as
| you declare it. The discard is also forced, so you could use Library of
| Leng.

No it isn't. Discards that are costs are never forced.

| >Forsaken Wastes: Spells which fizzle are still considered `sucessfully
cast'.
| >??? Only applies when Forsaken Wastes is in play. [Counterspelling FW will
| >not cause loss of life] ???
|
| Good question on that last one. I'd tend to agree with Mike.

| >Skulking Ghost: ??? The spell/effect must be sucessfully cast ??? The

ghost
| >is buried before the spell/effect can resolve.
|
| It need not be successfully cast. As soon as the Ghost is declared
| as a target, the ability triggers and the Ghost gets buried. This came up a
| ton in Atlanta and was officially ruled by Tom to work this way.

Fair Enough; so the annoucning of a spell is enough to kill it. Cute. Given
that:

The announced spell will become sucessfully cast (unless some counters it),
but will always fizzle on resolution (unless Deflected to a new target first).

| >Jolt: Based on a soda of the same name. :-)
|
| Based on a soda popular with Magic players everywhere, since there
| is a well-known pro tournament bylaw which reads, "Neither players nor
| judges nor WotC staff shall sleep at a pro tournament or con unless rendered
| unconscious by the impact of a large object to the head or an actof God." :)
|
| >Mist Dragon: Both gaining and losing flying are permanent.
|
| Making the Mist Dragon one cool critter. THis also applies to the
| green dragon(whose name escapes me) who can flip-flop between Flying and
| Trample.

Actually it doesn't. The Canopy Dragon has intrinsic Trample and you can pay
to remove the trample and grant flying until the end of the turn. that Switch
isn't permanent.

| >Ray of Command: !!! Target creature still has summoning sickness; does not
| >untap the creature !!! [Different from IA version of card]
|
| I think this may be a problem with Neutral Ground's list. The Ray of
| COmmads I saw read and worked just like the IA version. Would be a mostly
| worthless card otherwise.

Whew! That makes me feel a lot better.

| >Soul Echo: You do not lose if there are no counters to remove from Soul
Echo
| >-- you'll still be alive. If you run out of counters, and have negative
life,
| >then you'd lose at the end of your upkeep after Soul Echo is buried.
|
| Correct. You cannot lost by having less than 1 life until Soul Echo
| acutally leaves play. Also, note that if Soul Echo remains in play, the
| target opponent MUST choose at the beginning of your upkeep whether damage
| that player deals is to Soul Echo's controller or will remove counters from
| Soul Echo. This came up in Atlanta, and was the way it was ruled.

Missed that little nuance. Cute.

George W. Bayles

unread,

Sep 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/17/96

Mike Marcelais (mich...@microsoft.com) wrote:
[snip]

: Amulet of Unmaking, et al: `Play this ability as a Sorcery' This means

: completely as a sorcery. You turn only, not in response to anything, not
: during combat, etc.

Can you Fork it?

Jim Hamp

unread,

Sep 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/17/96

On 16 Sep 1996, Daniel M Gray wrote:
>
> This looks in the player's hand for all blue or part blue cards with
> spell type "Interrupt." Old interrupts that now play as instants all the
> time(like Reset) or mana sources(Dark Ritual, etc.) have universal errata to
> that effect, and are thus not interrupts. This really only applies to Reset,
> if memory serves(unless someone's got a Sleighted Celestial Dawn in play).
>

Speaking of, Hacking a CD would be the ultimate hoser, since all their
lands would be (say) swamps, and all their cards would require W to cast
except artifacts. Sleighting it would have little effect since they
would be a M:tG anomaly, a deck full of (say) Blue cards that require W
to cast.

Jim Hamp

unread,

Sep 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/17/96

On 16 Sep 1996, Daniel M Gray wrote:

> "Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> writes:
>
> >Phyrexian Dreadnaught: Total current toughness of 12 or more.
>

Minor nit...this should read "power", not toughness, n'est ce pas?

Jim Hamp

unread,

Sep 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/17/96

On 17 Sep 1996, Mike Marcelais wrote:

> | >Soul Echo: You do not lose if there are no counters to remove from Soul
> Echo
> | >-- you'll still be alive. If you run out of counters, and have negative
> life,
> | >then you'd lose at the end of your upkeep after Soul Echo is buried.
> |
> | Correct. You cannot lost by having less than 1 life until Soul Echo
> | acutally leaves play. Also, note that if Soul Echo remains in play, the
> | target opponent MUST choose at the beginning of your upkeep whether damage
> | that player deals is to Soul Echo's controller or will remove counters from
> | Soul Echo. This came up in Atlanta, and was the way it was ruled.
>

> Missed that little nuance. Cute.
>

Next question:

Soul Echo
Enchantment
Ron Spencer
WWX
When you play Soul Echo, put X echo counters on it. At the beginning of
your upkeep, if there are no echo counters on Soul Echo bury it; otherwise,
target opponent may choose that for each 1 damage dealt to you until your next
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
upkeep, you instead remove 1 echo counter from Soul Echo. You do not lose the
game as a result of having less than 1 life.

Does this mean "Sucessfully dealt?" If damage is prevented, then what?
What about reduced? Redirected?

Hampster

Daniel M Gray

unread,

Sep 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/18/96

"Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> writes:

>|
>| >Lion's Eye Diamond: You discard your hand -before- you get the mana.
>|
>| It is in fact written as a cost, so you lose your hand as soon as
>| you declare it. The discard is also forced, so you could use Library of
>| Leng.

>No it isn't. Discards that are costs are never forced.

Ack. There's one from my, "Think first, type later" file. You're
exactly right.

>| >Skulking Ghost: ??? The spell/effect must be sucessfully cast ??? The
>ghost
>| >is buried before the spell/effect can resolve.
>|
>| It need not be successfully cast. As soon as the Ghost is declared
>| as a target, the ability triggers and the Ghost gets buried. This came up a
>| ton in Atlanta and was officially ruled by Tom to work this way.

>Fair Enough; so the annoucning of a spell is enough to kill it. Cute. Given
>that:

>The announced spell will become sucessfully cast (unless some counters it),
>but will always fizzle on resolution (unless Deflected to a new target first).

Right. You wouldn't believe the number of times this came up with
Flare. "No you don't get the card" became something of a mantra :)

>|
>| >Mist Dragon: Both gaining and losing flying are permanent.
>|
>| Making the Mist Dragon one cool critter. THis also applies to the
>| green dragon(whose name escapes me) who can flip-flop between Flying and
>| Trample.

>Actually it doesn't. The Canopy Dragon has intrinsic Trample and you can pay

>to remove the trample and grant flying until the end of the turn. that Switch
>isn't permanent.

My fault for not reading the card carefully. I only glanced at it
for a few seconds, and somehow it stuck in my mind as being like Mist
Dragon. Guess I should've checked the NG spoiler list first :)

>| >Soul Echo: You do not lose if there are no counters to remove from Soul
>Echo
>| >-- you'll still be alive. If you run out of counters, and have negative
>life,
>| >then you'd lose at the end of your upkeep after Soul Echo is buried.
>|
>| Correct. You cannot lost by having less than 1 life until Soul Echo
>| acutally leaves play. Also, note that if Soul Echo remains in play, the
>| target opponent MUST choose at the beginning of your upkeep whether damage
>| that player deals is to Soul Echo's controller or will remove counters from
>| Soul Echo. This came up in Atlanta, and was the way it was ruled.

>Missed that little nuance. Cute.

Confused the heck out of a bunch of people in Atlanta, and cost at
least one player a game.
Dan Gray

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/18/96

"Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> wrote:

>Chariot of the Sun: Current toughness becomes 1.

As opposed to base tougness?
That IS what they meant I imagine, but not
what they wrote. Also if the toughness was <1
it is unaffected.

>Catabomb Dragon: current power.
Same problem as the Phantasamal Fiend. Base power
is set and then boosted by add ons. They should sort
this lot out. Maybe they have in the 5th rules........

>Dread Specter: Does not need to survive combat to destroy blocking/blocked
>creatures.

They really are going to have to do something about Thicket Basilisk.

Eh?
You only have to choose targets for the option you choose. Why on
earth would you think otherwise????

>Forsaken Wastes: Spells which fizzle are still considered `sucessfully cast'.
>??? Only applies when Forsaken Wastes is in play. [Counterspelling FW will
>not cause loss of life] ???

Agreed.

>Skulking Ghost: ??? The spell/effect must be sucessfully cast ??? The ghost
>is buried before the spell/effect can resolve.

I'd say it was a TE off the announcement, but they may have meant it
your way.

The effect is triggered for all the blockers but since the DF is gone
after the first TE resolves, it will be impossible to announce the
subsequent TEs.

No. It is modal, since it uses the word "instead". Since it is modal a
colour change will not affect anything.

>Meddle: ??? Spell can have other targets, as long as those other targets do
>not target creatures. If Meddled with, only the `fork' of the spell
>targetting a creature is affected. ???

I'd say it means only one target, and that a creature.

>Prismic Lace: Cannot make a permanent colorless. Can make a permanent
>multicolored.

Yes, well, that's the way Shyft went. Disagree personally.

>Ray of Command: !!! Target creature still has summoning sickness; does not
>untap the creature !!! [Different from IA version of card]

Also: it does not tap when it returns, it returns tapped.

>Shimmer: ??? Is not restricted to basic land types. `Maze of Ith' can be
>chosen. ??? Cannot choose Snow-covered Xxx since SC is a qualifier. If
>`Swmaps' are chosen, then both swamps and SC swamps are affected.

SC swamp is a land type. Had that argument though.......
Otherwise fine.
NB can tap lands for mana before they Phase out.

>Kaervek's Plague: `not put into the graveyard' includes regeneration but also
>any other way it can avoid the graveyard (a prior Disintegrate).

Fine.

> Cards which
>go to the graveyard but don't stay there (eg, Enduring Renewal, token
>creatures, etc) will not trigger this.

They trigger it. Just like a Creature Bond.

>Reparations: Card draw is optional. Can draw a card for fizzled (but not
>countered) spells.

I notice this is worded differently to the Skulking Ghoul. Does that
weaken your case (for the Ghoul) or strengthen it I wonder.

>Afiya Grove: If this (somehow) gets animated, the counters on it really will
>act as +1/+1 counters for Afiya Grove. Can only use these particular 3 +1/+1
>counters -- cannot use +1/+1 counters from any other source.

Animated enchantments, huh?
I'll remeber that the next time some says I'm raising points that
never come up.

>Early Harvest: Will not untap multilands. The fact that this is an instant
>almost proves that there will be no eratta to make Ley Druid's land untapping
>`faster' than Instant speed.

Cf Candelabra of Tawnos.

>Jungle Worm: ??? Why not say `Rampage: -1' ???

because Dominian Mages don't understand negative
numbers much. Seriously.

>Mindbender Spores: The fungus spores have the abilities; not Mindbender.
>Removing Mindbender from play will not change how fast affected creatures
>untap.

Hmmm...
I'd have to see the card.

>Final Fortune: ??? If you skip (or otherwise fail to take) the extra turn,
>then you do not have to deal with the `lose game at the end of that turn' ???

Yup.

>Incinerate: !!! Must sucessfully damage the creature to prevent regeneration,
>not merely be targetted by the creature. [Different than IA version with
>eratta]. Note that with the change in damage prevention timing, damage
>becomes sucessfuly dealt -before- you regenerate so the side effect of the
>damage can be `applied' fast enough. !!! !!! Tom: Should IA Eratta be removed
>b/c it is no longer necessary? !!!

Where / when was this posted???
Clearly, I'm missing something. When are you meant to
regenerate if not even as a side effect of damage?

I'd say you look at the card type as it stands.

>Torrent of Lava: Not that it matters much, but the acquired ability is
>permanent and can be used on other Torrent of Lava spells. Note that this
>matters only if you redirect damage from a 2nd Torrent of Lava to a creature
>affected by the first (and the 2nd ToL doesn't affect it).

I'd say that when the card says "Torrent of Lava" it means "Me" and
not ANY Torrent of Lava card.

>Benevolent Unicorn: All spells, all creatures. It's not selective. Works on
>`unpreventable damage' like Lava Burst. Justice and Eye for an Eye will still
>`see' the original damage, not the reduced damage.

Depends on the timing. Does it mean that, for example, if you cast a
Lightning Bolt, it only assigns 2 points damage IN THE FIRST PLACE?
If so, Justice and Eye for Eye will never see the 3 points, only 2.

David

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/18/96

dg...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Daniel M Gray) wrote:
>See my previous post quoting from the Mirage rulebook. In essence--
>any creature without Flanking that blocks a Flanker gets -1/-1 until end of
>turn.

Only if it is assigned to block. (your other post said)

> Permanents with Phasing phase out at the beginning of your untap
>phase if and only if they are in play, and phase back in at the beginning of
>your untap phase if and only if they are currently phased out. Permanents
>that phase out tapped phase in tapped(and, if still under the control of the
>player whose turn they phase in on, immediately untap during the untap
>phase). Permanents that phase in do not suffer summoning sickness. Tokens
>which phase out do not phase in and are gone forever. Phasing out also snaps
>any effects targeting a creature when it phases out(so, control granted to
>you of a permanent by Seasinger or Aladdin would snap,

Why? They are NOT targeting it and ARE permanent.
Not that the rules you posted mention anything about
targeting being lost......
.....as far as I can see it would not (***difficult to arrange***).

>but that granted by
>Control Magic or Steal Artifact would not. Tom wasn't sure how Ritual of the
>Machine would work when someone asked this at the Atlanta players' meeting).

Same as all the others: control is unchanged.

>Counters and enchantments on a phasing permanent phase out with it, and
>remain when it phases back in. "Comes into play" costs/effects do not
>reprocess when the permanent phases in.

David

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/18/96

Jim Hamp <jkh...@deimos.frii.com> wrote in article
<Pine.BSF.3.91.960917...@deimos.frii.com>...

| On 16 Sep 1996, Daniel M Gray wrote:
|
| > "Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> writes:
| >

| > >Phyrexian Dreadnaught: Total current toughness of 12 or more.
| >

| Minor nit...this should read "power", not toughness, n'est ce pas?

Yea...what the card says... :-)

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/18/96

Jim Hamp <jkh...@deimos.frii.com> wrote in article
<Pine.BSF.3.91.960917...@deimos.frii.com>...
| On 16 Sep 1996, Daniel M Gray wrote:
| >

| > This looks in the player's hand for all blue or part blue cards with
| > spell type "Interrupt." Old interrupts that now play as instants all the
| > time(like Reset) or mana sources(Dark Ritual, etc.) have universal errata
to
| > that effect, and are thus not interrupts. This really only applies to
Reset,
| > if memory serves(unless someone's got a Sleighted Celestial Dawn in play).
| >

| Speaking of, Hacking a CD would be the ultimate hoser, since all their
| lands would be (say) swamps, and all their cards would require W to cast
| except artifacts. Sleighting it would have little effect since they
| would be a M:tG anomaly, a deck full of (say) Blue cards that require W
| to cast.

Fortunately, if they have another Hack or a Disenchant in their hand, they can
tap their lands for mana before the hack resolves, and then cast that
hack/disenchant to `fix' the Celestial Dawn after the Hack resolves, using
the white mana that their former plains produced.

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/18/96

| Soul Echo
| Enchantment
| Ron Spencer
| WWX
| When you play Soul Echo, put X echo counters on it. At the beginning of
| your upkeep, if there are no echo counters on Soul Echo bury it; otherwise,
| target opponent may choose that for each 1 damage dealt to you until your
next
| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| upkeep, you instead remove 1 echo counter from Soul Echo. You do not lose
the
| game as a result of having less than 1 life.
|
| Does this mean "Sucessfully dealt?" If damage is prevented, then what?
| What about reduced? Redirected?

Yes...things that check for damage dealt always mean sucessfully dealt damage.
If you prevent the damage, then you don't lose life or lose a counter.

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/18/96

David Johnson <dav...@msol.u-net.com> wrote in article
<51ntjt$q...@nuntius.u-net.net>...

What do you mean it isn't what they wrote? The card isn't setting both power
and toughness at the same time to specific numbers and it isn't manipulating
any '*''s the the target creature's toughness, so it is changing the current
toughness, not the base toughness.

|
| >Catabomb Dragon: current power.
| Same problem as the Phantasamal Fiend. Base power
| is set and then boosted by add ons. They should sort
| this lot out. Maybe they have in the 5th rules........

Eh...I don't see how. Bonuses applied to the creature's base power before
blocking will be halved, those applied afterward will be in full effect.

[Eg, 1/1 + GG --> 4/4 blocking CD --> 2/4 + GG --> 5/7]

|
| >Dread Specter: Does not need to survive combat to destroy blocking/blocked
| >creatures.
| They really are going to have to do something about Thicket Basilisk.

Yes. :-)

|
| >Ebony Charm, et al: You must still select all targets so this spell targets
an
| >opponent and a creature regardless of what ability you want to use. this
| >means you can't use it if there are no targetable creatures in play, and it
| >cannot be Deflected (since it has 2 targets). !!! Tom, this should change
| >because some of the spells worded like this (Chaos Charm) require a very
| >specific target type for one of the spells alternatives (in this case a
target
| >wall) which makes the spell very weak. !!!
| Eh?
| You only have to choose targets for the option you choose. Why on
| earth would you think otherwise????

Because Tom said with Fatal Lore: [Text: opponent chooses one: you draw 3
cards; or bury up to two of their target creatures and they draw 3 cards] You
must name targets for all of the options.

| >Ether Well: ??? Checks `redness' at announcement; if it is red, you get the
| >choice of where to put the creature. If you choose to put it at the bottom
of
| >the library and the creature is not red when the spell resolves, then it
| >fails. ???
| No. It is modal, since it uses the word "instead". Since it is modal a
| colour change will not affect anything.

If it really is Modal, then it would work the way I described -- if it isn't
red at announcement, you can't choose the `red' option; if it isn't red at
resolution, then you have an illegal target and it fizzles (if you choose the
red option).

| >Kaervek's Plague: `not put into the graveyard' includes regeneration but
also
| >any other way it can avoid the graveyard (a prior Disintegrate).
| Fine.
| > Cards which
| >go to the graveyard but don't stay there (eg, Enduring Renewal, token
| >creatures, etc) will not trigger this.
| They trigger it. Just like a Creature Bond.

No, the Plague notices the creature going to the graveyard so it is satisfied.
The fact that the creature evaporates (or goes elsewhere after the creature
gets to the graveyard) does not bother the Plague.

Note on Disintegration: Only a 3E version will cause it to leave play this
way -- the 4E version only removes it from the game if it gets lethal damage.

| >Incinerate: !!! Must sucessfully damage the creature to prevent
regeneration,
| >not merely be targetted by the creature. [Different than IA version with
| >eratta]. Note that with the change in damage prevention timing, damage
| >becomes sucessfuly dealt -before- you regenerate so the side effect of the
| >damage can be `applied' fast enough. !!! !!! Tom: Should IA Eratta be
removed
| >b/c it is no longer necessary? !!!
| Where / when was this posted???
| Clearly, I'm missing something. When are you meant to
| regenerate if not even as a side effect of damage?

Okay...a bit of history.

IA was released with Incinerate that said:
Incinerate iC Instant 1R
Incinerate deals 3 damage to target creature or player. No creature
damaged by Incinerate can regenerate this turn.

Now, it was realized that a creature is only damaged by Incinerate if the
damage was not prevented, so the `no regenerate' ability doesn't happen until
after damage prevention. But regeneration happens during damage prevention so
the creature can regenerate from Incinerate before it gets the ability
``cannot regenerate'.

WotC said that this was bad [basically, the second sentence on Incinerate was
worthless], so they erattaed Incinerate to say:

Incinerate deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
That creature cannot regenerate this turn. [Duelist #6, p22]

This means that the `cannot regenerate' happen right away (so you can't
regenerate from the Incinerate damage), but the target of the spell is the
creature that cannot regenerate. If the damage is redirected to another
creature, the new creature can regenerate (but not the old creature); and even
if all of the damage is prevented, the creature -still- can't regenerate this
turn because no damage needs to be sucessfully dealt to allow the `cannot
regenerate' to happen.

Now 5E was released, which has this to say on Damage Prevention:
| Regeneration: As noted above, regeneration effects are now specialized
| effects used as soon as a creature would be put into a graveyard;
| regeneration is not part of damage prevention. [Tom Wylie's 5E post, Duelist
#13]

Hence, before you can regenerate a creature, it must have finished the damage
prevention phase and all of the side effects of damage will have taken effect;
so the original wording of Incinerate works as intended: You get a chance to
prevent the damage, the creature that is sucessfully damaged cannot
regenerate, and creatures are not -allowed- to regenerate until after the
damage dealt to them has become sucessfully cast. The side effects of this
are that if all of the damage is prevetned, the creature can regenerate
normally from other effects this turn, and if the damage is rediected to a new
creature, that creature cannot regenerate (but the original creature can,
unless some of the Incinerate damage was left behind).

| >Benevolent Unicorn: All spells, all creatures. It's not selective. Works
on
| >`unpreventable damage' like Lava Burst. Justice and Eye for an Eye will
still
| >`see' the original damage, not the reduced damage.
| Depends on the timing. Does it mean that, for example, if you cast a
| Lightning Bolt, it only assigns 2 points damage IN THE FIRST PLACE?
| If so, Justice and Eye for Eye will never see the 3 points, only 2.

The spell deals 3, BU reduces that damage to 2, the damage is applied to the
creature, etc. Justice and EfaE sees that the spell originally applied 3
points of damage (before the BU reduced the damage by one).

Daniel M Gray

unread,

Sep 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/18/96

Jim Hamp <jkh...@deimos.frii.com> writes:

>On 17 Sep 1996, Mike Marcelais wrote:

>> | >Soul Echo: You do not lose if there are no counters to remove from Soul
>> Echo
>> | >-- you'll still be alive. If you run out of counters, and have negative
>> life,
>> | >then you'd lose at the end of your upkeep after Soul Echo is buried.
>> |
>> | Correct. You cannot lost by having less than 1 life until Soul Echo
>> | acutally leaves play. Also, note that if Soul Echo remains in play, the
>> | target opponent MUST choose at the beginning of your upkeep whether damage
>> | that player deals is to Soul Echo's controller or will remove counters from
>> | Soul Echo. This came up in Atlanta, and was the way it was ruled.
>>

>> Missed that little nuance. Cute.
>>

>Next question:

>Soul Echo
>Enchantment
>Ron Spencer
>WWX
>When you play Soul Echo, put X echo counters on it. At the beginning of
>your upkeep, if there are no echo counters on Soul Echo bury it; otherwise,
>target opponent may choose that for each 1 damage dealt to you until your next
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>upkeep, you instead remove 1 echo counter from Soul Echo. You do not lose the
>game as a result of having less than 1 life.

>Does this mean "Sucessfully dealt?" If damage is prevented, then what?
>What about reduced? Redirected?

>Hampster

There's a pretty much universal assumption that whenever something
says "damage dealt," it means "successfully dealt." Cards that base what
they do on the amount of damage assigned, rather than successfully dealt
usually say so(see Eye for an Eye or Justice). You don't gain life from
Spirit Link for prevented damage, so it stands to reason that you don't
remove counters from Soul Echo for prevented damage.
Dan Gray

Daniel M Gray

unread,

Sep 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/18/96

dav...@msol.u-net.com (David Johnson) writes:

>"Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> wrote:

>>Chariot of the Sun: Current toughness becomes 1.
>As opposed to base tougness?
>That IS what they meant I imagine, but not
>what they wrote. Also if the toughness was <1
>it is unaffected.

If toughness is < 1, it doesn't change(the creature should be dead
under 5E rules anyways, so this is kind of moot). There's a clause in the
Mirage rulebook that says something to the effect of, "If a spell or effect
changes a creature's power and/or toughness to a certain number, treat that
as changing only the number on the card." The example they use is, of
course, Sorceress Queen. Whether this is meant to apply to Chariot of the
Sun or not, I'll leave up to Tom to answer.

>>Catabomb Dragon: current power.
>Same problem as the Phantasamal Fiend. Base power
>is set and then boosted by add ons. They should sort
>this lot out. Maybe they have in the 5th rules........

Catacomb Dragon just says "power is halved," so this is definitely
current power, not base power.

>>Dread Specter: Does not need to survive combat to destroy blocking/blocked
>>creatures.
>They really are going to have to do something about Thicket Basilisk.

>>Ebony Charm, et al: You must still select all targets so this spell targets an
>>opponent and a creature regardless of what ability you want to use. this
>>means you can't use it if there are no targetable creatures in play, and it
>>cannot be Deflected (since it has 2 targets). !!! Tom, this should change
>>because some of the spells worded like this (Chaos Charm) require a very
>>specific target type for one of the spells alternatives (in this case a target
>>wall) which makes the spell very weak. !!!
>Eh?
>You only have to choose targets for the option you choose. Why on
>earth would you think otherwise????

Case in point is Fatal Lore-- you have to choose a target opponent
and 0 to 2 target creatures. Under current targeting rules, you have to
choose a legal target(if necessary) for each of the Charm's three choices
when you declare it. Since one of CHaos Charm's targets is a wall, it would
make the spell virtually useless.

>>Forsaken Wastes: Spells which fizzle are still considered `sucessfully cast'.
>>??? Only applies when Forsaken Wastes is in play. [Counterspelling FW will
>>not cause loss of life] ???
>Agreed.

Agreed here as well.

>>Skulking Ghost: ??? The spell/effect must be sucessfully cast ??? The ghost
>>is buried before the spell/effect can resolve.
>I'd say it was a TE off the announcement, but they may have meant it
>your way.

If is a TE triggering on the declaration of the spell. If you
declare the Ghost as a target, you get a dead Ghost.

>>Dream Fighter: ??? If blocked by more than one creature, all such creatures
>>phase out. ??? If DF is a member of an attacking band, other members of the
>>band are still blocked, but are still attacking (and don't phase out).
>The effect is triggered for all the blockers but since the DF is gone
>after the first TE resolves, it will be impossible to announce the
>subsequent TEs.

The effect triggers simultaneously for all blockers(or all things
blocked by Dream Fighter in the case of Blaze of Glory or that new one that
lets you block up to three things whose name escapes me).

>>Ether Well: ??? Checks `redness' at announcement; if it is red, you get the
>>choice of where to put the creature. If you choose to put it at the bottom of
>>the library and the creature is not red when the spell resolves, then it
>>fails. ???
>No. It is modal, since it uses the word "instead". Since it is modal a
>colour change will not affect anything.

Hmm. I'm not sure about this one, but it sounds good. If my memory
is correct(which it very well couldn't be), didn't Tom rule that the Elvish
Healer isn't modal, and that a color change won't cause the Healer to
fizzle, just prevent less damage?

>>Meddle: ??? Spell can have other targets, as long as those other targets do
>>not target creatures. If Meddled with, only the `fork' of the spell
>>targetting a creature is affected. ???
>I'd say it means only one target, and that a creature.

Meddle says, "Target spell targeting a single creature," doesn't it?

>>Prismic Lace: Cannot make a permanent colorless. Can make a permanent
>>multicolored.
>Yes, well, that's the way Shyft went. Disagree personally.

It says, "color or colors" on it. Colorless is neither color nor
colors.

>>Ray of Command: !!! Target creature still has summoning sickness; does not
>>untap the creature !!! [Different from IA version of card]
>Also: it does not tap when it returns, it returns tapped.

Which is, unless I'm mistaken, a semantical difference only.
"Returning tapped" is still tapping the creature and would trigger Spirit
Shackle, would it not?

>>Reparations: Card draw is optional. Can draw a card for fizzled (but not
>>countered) spells.
>I notice this is worded differently to the Skulking Ghoul. Does that
>weaken your case (for the Ghoul) or strengthen it I wonder.

Reparations says, "Successfully cast." A countered spell is never
successfully cast. Skulking Ghost just says, "If Ghost is a target..."

>>Afiya Grove: If this (somehow) gets animated, the counters on it really will
>>act as +1/+1 counters for Afiya Grove. Can only use these particular 3 +1/+1
>>counters -- cannot use +1/+1 counters from any other source.
>Animated enchantments, huh?
>I'll remeber that the next time some says I'm raising points that
>never come up.

It is a valid point though. Despite the fact there isn't a card
which animates enchantments yet, there will be one soon(a certain WotC
person dropped a hint about it to me in Atlanta).

>>Early Harvest: Will not untap multilands. The fact that this is an instant
>>almost proves that there will be no eratta to make Ley Druid's land untapping
>>`faster' than Instant speed.
>Cf Candelabra of Tawnos.

Exactly the same now, yes. As are the Druids.

>>Jungle Worm: ??? Why not say `Rampage: -1' ???
>because Dominian Mages don't understand negative
>numbers much. Seriously.

Heh. Probably true.

>>Sirocco: ??? 1st - 4th edition Interrupts that count as `Mana Source' or
>>`Instant' cards under 5th edition are not counted. (like Reset). ??? Dual
>>Instant/Interrupt cards (Blue Elemental Blast) do count.
>I'd say you look at the card type as it stands.

I disagree, since all pre-Mirage/5E cards now have universal errata
making them of the proper spell type(Dark Ritual, Burnt Offering, and
Sacrifice are now Mana Sources. Reset, Spoils of Evil, and a couple others
are now Instants).

>>Torrent of Lava: Not that it matters much, but the acquired ability is
>>permanent and can be used on other Torrent of Lava spells. Note that this
>>matters only if you redirect damage from a 2nd Torrent of Lava to a creature
>>affected by the first (and the 2nd ToL doesn't affect it).
>I'd say that when the card says "Torrent of Lava" it means "Me" and
>not ANY Torrent of Lava card.

It implies any card. Otherwise it would just be worded, "And gain
the ability T: Prevent 1 damage from this spell."

>>Benevolent Unicorn: All spells, all creatures. It's not selective. Works on
>>`unpreventable damage' like Lava Burst. Justice and Eye for an Eye will still
>>`see' the original damage, not the reduced damage.
>Depends on the timing. Does it mean that, for example, if you cast a
>Lightning Bolt, it only assigns 2 points damage IN THE FIRST PLACE?
>If so, Justice and Eye for Eye will never see the 3 points, only 2.

No. It is automatic damage reduction, like protection from a color,
Prismatic Ward, and Bronze Horse. Justice and Eye for an Eye will still deal
the full amount of assigned damage, since reducing the amount of damage
dealt, even by automatic passive reduction doesn't reduce the damage Eye for
an Eye of Justice will deal.

>David

Dan Gray

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/18/96

"Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> wrote:

>Chariot of the Sun: Current toughness becomes 1.

As opposed to base tougness?
That IS what they meant I imagine, but not
what they wrote. Also if the toughness was <1
it is unaffected.

>Catabomb Dragon: current power.

Same problem as the Phantasamal Fiend. Base power
is set and then boosted by add ons. They should sort
this lot out. Maybe they have in the 5th rules........

>Dread Specter: Does not need to survive combat to destroy blocking/blocked
>creatures.

They really are going to have to do something about Thicket Basilisk.

>Ebony Charm, et al: You must still select all targets so this spell targets an

>opponent and a creature regardless of what ability you want to use. this
>means you can't use it if there are no targetable creatures in play, and it
>cannot be Deflected (since it has 2 targets). !!! Tom, this should change
>because some of the spells worded like this (Chaos Charm) require a very
>specific target type for one of the spells alternatives (in this case a target
>wall) which makes the spell very weak. !!!

Eh?
You only have to choose targets for the option you choose. Why on
earth would you think otherwise????

>Forsaken Wastes: Spells which fizzle are still considered `sucessfully cast'.

>??? Only applies when Forsaken Wastes is in play. [Counterspelling FW will
>not cause loss of life] ???

Agreed.

>Skulking Ghost: ??? The spell/effect must be sucessfully cast ??? The ghost
>is buried before the spell/effect can resolve.

I'd say it was a TE off the announcement, but they may have meant it
your way.

>Dream Fighter: ??? If blocked by more than one creature, all such creatures

>phase out. ??? If DF is a member of an attacking band, other members of the
>band are still blocked, but are still attacking (and don't phase out).

The effect is triggered for all the blockers but since the DF is gone
after the first TE resolves, it will be impossible to announce the
subsequent TEs.

>Ether Well: ??? Checks `redness' at announcement; if it is red, you get the

>choice of where to put the creature. If you choose to put it at the bottom of
>the library and the creature is not red when the spell resolves, then it
>fails. ???

No. It is modal, since it uses the word "instead". Since it is modal a
colour change will not affect anything.

>Meddle: ??? Spell can have other targets, as long as those other targets do

>not target creatures. If Meddled with, only the `fork' of the spell
>targetting a creature is affected. ???

I'd say it means only one target, and that a creature.

>Prismic Lace: Cannot make a permanent colorless. Can make a permanent
>multicolored.

Yes, well, that's the way Shyft went. Disagree personally.

>Ray of Command: !!! Target creature still has summoning sickness; does not

>untap the creature !!! [Different from IA version of card]

Also: it does not tap when it returns, it returns tapped.

>Shimmer: ??? Is not restricted to basic land types. `Maze of Ith' can be

>chosen. ??? Cannot choose Snow-covered Xxx since SC is a qualifier. If
>`Swmaps' are chosen, then both swamps and SC swamps are affected.

SC swamp is a land type. Had that argument though.......
Otherwise fine.
NB can tap lands for mana before they Phase out.

>Kaervek's Plague: `not put into the graveyard' includes regeneration but also

>any other way it can avoid the graveyard (a prior Disintegrate).

Fine.

> Cards which
>go to the graveyard but don't stay there (eg, Enduring Renewal, token
>creatures, etc) will not trigger this.

They trigger it. Just like a Creature Bond.

>Reparations: Card draw is optional. Can draw a card for fizzled (but not
>countered) spells.

I notice this is worded differently to the Skulking Ghoul. Does that
weaken your case (for the Ghoul) or strengthen it I wonder.

>Afiya Grove: If this (somehow) gets animated, the counters on it really will

>act as +1/+1 counters for Afiya Grove. Can only use these particular 3 +1/+1
>counters -- cannot use +1/+1 counters from any other source.

Animated enchantments, huh?
I'll remember that the next time some says I'm raising points that
never come up.

>Early Harvest: Will not untap multilands. The fact that this is an instant

>almost proves that there will be no eratta to make Ley Druid's land untapping
>`faster' than Instant speed.

Cf Candelabra of Tawnos.

>Jungle Worm: ??? Why not say `Rampage: -1' ???

because Dominian Mages don't understand negative
numbers much. Seriously.

>Mindbender Spores: The fungus spores have the abilities; not Mindbender.

>Removing Mindbender from play will not change how fast affected creatures
>untap.

Hmmm...
I'd have to see the card.

Probably find the TE has the abilities instead of either of the above.

>Final Fortune: ??? If you skip (or otherwise fail to take) the extra turn,
>then you do not have to deal with the `lose game at the end of that turn' ???

Yup.

Where / when was this posted???
Clearly, I'm missing something. When are you meant to
regenerate if not even as a side effect of damage?

>Sirocco: ??? 1st - 4th edition Interrupts that count as `Mana Source' or

>`Instant' cards under 5th edition are not counted. (like Reset). ??? Dual
>Instant/Interrupt cards (Blue Elemental Blast) do count.

I'd say you look at the card type as it stands.

>Torrent of Lava: Not that it matters much, but the acquired ability is

>permanent and can be used on other Torrent of Lava spells. Note that this
>matters only if you redirect damage from a 2nd Torrent of Lava to a creature
>affected by the first (and the 2nd ToL doesn't affect it).

I'd say that when the card says "Torrent of Lava" it means "Me" and
not ANY Torrent of Lava card.

>Benevolent Unicorn: All spells, all creatures. It's not selective. Works on

>`unpreventable damage' like Lava Burst. Justice and Eye for an Eye will still
>`see' the original damage, not the reduced damage.

David

Daniel M Gray

unread,

Sep 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/18/96

Jim Hamp <jkh...@deimos.frii.com> writes:

>On 16 Sep 1996, Daniel M Gray wrote:

>> "Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> writes:
>>
>> >Phyrexian Dreadnaught: Total current toughness of 12 or more.
>>

>Minor nit...this should read "power", not toughness, n'est ce pas?

Right.
Dan Gray

Jim Hamp

unread,

Sep 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/18/96

On Mon, 16 Sep 1996, Cpaths wrote:

> As Mike indicates, Mind Bend is probably intended to be the equivalent of
> either a hack or sleight. But the Neutral Ground text does not say that:
>
> Change the text of target permanent by replacing all instances of one
> color word or basic land type with another.
>
> The above sentence allows you, in my highly unoffical opinion, to replace
> "white" by "swamp".
>
> Imagine casting a Bent Holy Light to give -1/-1 to all non-swamp creatures.
>

I like it! Play a Kormus Bell first, then your swamps are unaffected! :)

Hampster

Daniel M Gray

unread,

Sep 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/18/96

dav...@msol.u-net.com (David Johnson) writes:

>dg...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Daniel M Gray) wrote:

>>See my previous post quoting from the Mirage rulebook. In essence--
>>any creature without Flanking that blocks a Flanker gets -1/-1 until end of
>>turn.

>Only if it is assigned to block. (your other post said)

Right. That's exactly what it says up above.

>> Permanents with Phasing phase out at the beginning of your untap
>>phase if and only if they are in play, and phase back in at the beginning of
>>your untap phase if and only if they are currently phased out. Permanents
>>that phase out tapped phase in tapped(and, if still under the control of the
>>player whose turn they phase in on, immediately untap during the untap
>>phase). Permanents that phase in do not suffer summoning sickness. Tokens
>>which phase out do not phase in and are gone forever. Phasing out also snaps
>>any effects targeting a creature when it phases out(so, control granted to
>>you of a permanent by Seasinger or Aladdin would snap,

>Why? They are NOT targeting it and ARE permanent.

>Not that the rules you posted mention anything about
>targeting being lost......
>.....as far as I can see it would not (***difficult to arrange***).

I can't say why-- that's how Tom ruled it would work in Atlanta. It
was a central part of his rules discussion on Phasing. It makes sense either
way, but I guess they decided to do it this way to make it a tad less
complicated. Keeping track of effects target permanents not currently in
play is a bit of a bookkeeping nightmare.

>>but that granted by
>>Control Magic or Steal Artifact would not. Tom wasn't sure how Ritual of the
>>Machine would work when someone asked this at the Atlanta players' meeting).

>Same as all the others: control is unchanged.

That was what I figured as well, but Tom said something about having
to see how a certain something was worded in the Phasing rules. I forgot
about it later, so never did ask him if he'd figured it out while we still
in Atlanta.

>>Counters and enchantments on a phasing permanent phase out with it, and
>>remain when it phases back in. "Comes into play" costs/effects do not
>>reprocess when the permanent phases in.

>David

Dan Gray

Kyle Nishioka

unread,

Sep 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/18/96

David Johnson (dav...@msol.u-net.com) wrote:
: "Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> wrote:

: >Chariot of the Sun: Current toughness becomes 1.
: As opposed to base tougness?
: That IS what they meant I imagine, but not
: what they wrote. Also if the toughness was <1
: it is unaffected.

No, there is a precedent for what Mike said. The Island of Wak-Wak has
similar wording and is ruled to affect the current power when it resolves.

: >Catabomb Dragon: current power.

: Same problem as the Phantasamal Fiend. Base power
: is set and then boosted by add ons. They should sort
: this lot out. Maybe they have in the 5th rules........

The Phantasmal Fiend and Sorceress Queen care about the base stats because
they affect both the power and toughness. Its an arbitrary rule but that
is the rule.

: >Ebony Charm, et al: You must still select all targets so this spell targets an

: >opponent and a creature regardless of what ability you want to use. this
: >means you can't use it if there are no targetable creatures in play, and it
: >cannot be Deflected (since it has 2 targets). !!! Tom, this should change
: >because some of the spells worded like this (Chaos Charm) require a very
: >specific target type for one of the spells alternatives (in this case a target
: >wall) which makes the spell very weak. !!!
: Eh?
: You only have to choose targets for the option you choose. Why on
: earth would you think otherwise????

Because based on other modal cards, you have to choose the targets before
picking the mode.

From Stephen D'Angelo's ruling summaries:
Fatal Lore:
You pick the up to two target creatures before the opponent chooses
which of the two effects will happen. [Bethmo 07/10/96]

: >Dream Fighter: ??? If blocked by more than one creature, all such creatures

: >phase out. ??? If DF is a member of an attacking band, other members of the
: >band are still blocked, but are still attacking (and don't phase out).
: The effect is triggered for all the blockers but since the DF is gone
: after the first TE resolves, it will be impossible to announce the
: subsequent TEs.

The blocked creatures phase out with the Fighter.

: >Benevolent Unicorn: All spells, all creatures. It's not selective. Works on

: >`unpreventable damage' like Lava Burst. Justice and Eye for an Eye will still
: >`see' the original damage, not the reduced damage.
: Depends on the timing. Does it mean that, for example, if you cast a
: Lightning Bolt, it only assigns 2 points damage IN THE FIRST PLACE?

No the full three is assigned, you can't reduce damage that is not
assigned.

--
Kyle
nk...@hawaii.edu

#include <std_disclaimer.h>
#include <blue_ribbon>

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

dg...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Daniel M Gray) wrote:

>>>Catabomb Dragon: current power.
>>Same problem as the Phantasamal Fiend. Base power
>>is set and then boosted by add ons. They should sort
>>this lot out. Maybe they have in the 5th rules........

> Catacomb Dragon just says "power is halved," so this is definitely
>current power, not base power.

But you just said:
"If a spell or effect changes a creature's power and/or toughness to a
certain number, treat that as changing only the number on the card."

[Mirage rulebook]

>>>Dream Fighter: ??? If blocked by more than one creature, all such creatures
>>>phase out. ??? If DF is a member of an attacking band, other members of the
>>>band are still blocked, but are still attacking (and don't phase out).
>>The effect is triggered for all the blockers but since the DF is gone
>>after the first TE resolves, it will be impossible to announce the
>>subsequent TEs.

> The effect triggers simultaneously for all blockers(or all things
>blocked by Dream Fighter in the case of Blaze of Glory or that new one that
>lets you block up to three things whose name escapes me).

Absolutely. It/they TRIGGER simultaneously.
But the TEs do not resolve simultaneously.

"1/1. Whenever Dream Fighter blocks or is blocked by a creature, Dream
Fighter and that creature phase out."

Yes, so Tom ruled that way during the bash, so would've I.
It obviously meant to say "DF and all creatures blocking it
or blocked by it..."
or whatever......

>>>Ether Well: ??? Checks `redness' at announcement; if it is red, you get the
>>>choice of where to put the creature. If you choose to put it at the bottom of
>>>the library and the creature is not red when the spell resolves, then it
>>>fails. ???
>>No. It is modal, since it uses the word "instead". Since it is modal a
>>colour change will not affect anything.

> Hmm. I'm not sure about this one, but it sounds good. If my memory
>is correct(which it very well couldn't be), didn't Tom rule that the Elvish
>Healer isn't modal, and that a color change won't cause the Healer to
>fizzle, just prevent less damage?

Well, if he did he was wrong IMO. Elvish Healer looks modal.
They changed there minds about Icequake too - realised it was modal.

>>>Ray of Command: !!! Target creature still has summoning sickness; does not
>>>untap the creature !!! [Different from IA version of card]
>>Also: it does not tap when it returns, it returns tapped.

> Which is, unless I'm mistaken, a semantical difference only.
>"Returning tapped" is still tapping the creature and would trigger Spirit
>Shackle, would it not?

It would not.
Compare the card text of Tawnos' Coffin / Oubliette with the [rather
old] rulings they produced.

>>>Torrent of Lava: Not that it matters much, but the acquired ability is
>>>permanent and can be used on other Torrent of Lava spells. Note that this
>>>matters only if you redirect damage from a 2nd Torrent of Lava to a creature
>>>affected by the first (and the 2nd ToL doesn't affect it).
>>I'd say that when the card says "Torrent of Lava" it means "Me" and
>>not ANY Torrent of Lava card.

> It implies any card. Otherwise it would just be worded, "And gain
>the ability T: Prevent 1 damage from this spell."

No. Spells don't refer to themselves as "this spell", but rather by
their own name (possibly shortened). I don't know why. It'd be
easier to see what was going on if they didn't. When Sorceress Queen
says she doesn't target Sorceress Queen, she means she cannot
target herself, not ANY SQ.

James Buster

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

In article <51q5pi$i...@nuntius.u-net.net>,
David Johnson <dav...@msol.u-net.com> wrote:

>But you just said:
>"If a spell or effect changes a creature's power and/or toughness to a
>certain number, treat that as changing only the number on the card."

>[Mirage rulebook]

"half power" is not "a certain number". It is an indefinite number that
depends on the power of the target creature. "2 power" is a certain number.
--
Planet Bog -- pools of toxic chemicals bubble under a choking atomsphere of
poisonous gases... but aside from that, it's not much like Earth.
-- Calvin

James Buster

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

On Mon, 16 Sep 1996, Cpaths wrote:
> As Mike indicates, Mind Bend is probably intended to be the equivalent of
> either a hack or sleight. But the Neutral Ground text does not say that:
>
> Change the text of target permanent by replacing all instances of one
> color word or basic land type with another.
>
> The above sentence allows you, in my highly unoffical opinion, to replace
> "white" by "swamp".

Well, no. It should be obvious to any native English speaker that the card
text should be read as

Change the text of target permanent by replacing all instances of one

color word or basic land type with another (color word or basic land
type)

David Leader

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

Mike Marcelais (mich...@microsoft.com) wrote:
: Ray of Command: !!! Target creature still has summoning sickness; does not

: untap the creature !!! [Different from IA version of card]

I'm looking at the new version of this card:
"Untap target creature an opponent controls and gain control of it until
end of turn. That creature is unaffected by summoning sickness this
turn. Tap the creature if you lose control of it at end of this turn.
'Heel'".

Therefore, by that wording, it does untap and does not have summoning
sickness ;'>.

Also, on Endbringer, I'd think that his pay 3 life is an upkeep cost;
therefore, his ability can't be used till this cost is "dealt with"

Just some thoughts
-Dave (Sacrifice Dave, a carrot milkshake, and any card with a Bunny rabbit
to search your library for a Philadgriff and put it directly into play)

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

dav...@msol.u-net.com writes:
>"Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> wrote:

Because it's ruled "otherwise" for the Alliances spells that have modes?
For instance, Fatal Lore? Where you have to choose a target opponent _and_
up to two target creatures before that opponent chooses a mode?

>>Shimmer: ??? Is not restricted to basic land types. `Maze of Ith' can be
>>chosen. ??? Cannot choose Snow-covered Xxx since SC is a qualifier. If
>>`Swmaps' are chosen, then both swamps and SC swamps are affected.
>SC swamp is a land type. Had that argument though.......

SC Swamp is a land of land type "swamp". Snow-coveredness is not something you
can choose when something says "Choose a land type". If you choose "swamp",
then both non-SC swamps and SC swamps gain phasing.

>Otherwise fine.
>NB can tap lands for mana before they Phase out.

Yes, because mana sources are absolutely anytime.

>> Cards which
>>go to the graveyard but don't stay there (eg, Enduring Renewal, token
>>creatures, etc) will not trigger this.
>They trigger it. Just like a Creature Bond.

Correct. "is put into the graveyard in this way". Like Soul Net.

>Clearly, I'm missing something. When are you meant to
>regenerate if not even as a side effect of damage?

Regeneration, in 5E, is a triggered effect off of _being put into the
graveyard_, or being about to be; when something's destroyed, you get no
d-p step but can regenerate from it, while when something dies from lethal
damage, you can't regenerate _during_ d-p, but only later at the time
things that really will die are being put into the graveyard. Regeneration
prevents the going-to-the-graveyard, and leaves the thing in play tapped
instead. You can't regenerate at _all_ from burial in 5E.

The spell assigns damage, then the damage is reduced automatically by 1. The
Bolt'll do 3, which will immediately become 2. Multiple Unicorns are cumulative.
The Eye for an Eye will still do 3 in response ... which will immediately
become 2 [Unicorn, again].

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://enigma.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

dg...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Daniel M Gray) writes:
> Case in point is Fatal Lore-- you have to choose a target opponent
>and 0 to 2 target creatures. Under current targeting rules, you have to
>choose a legal target(if necessary) for each of the Charm's three choices
>when you declare it. Since one of CHaos Charm's targets is a wall, it would
>make the spell virtually useless.

Hmm.

It may be that the Alliances spells, thinking about it, are ruled that way
because you don't _know_ which option opponent'll choose until after you
target the opponent ... so you have to choose the targets for Option B in
_case_ it gets chosen. ["Hidden knowledge"?] But when you _cast_ a Charm,
it's modal, and you _know_ which mode it's in... so you only have to choose
for the mode it's in. [Case: Twiddle is modal ... but you don't have to choose
two targets, one for the "tap" and one for the "untap".]

Yare.

> It is a valid point though. Despite the fact there isn't a card
>which animates enchantments yet, there will be one soon(a certain WotC
>person dropped a hint about it to me in Atlanta).

Oh dear.

At which point your questions about Copy Artifact _will_ have "similar cards"
to be compared to, David. And I'll bet you money it'll turn out that
enchantments, when tapped, a) can only be tapped because they're also a land,
creature, or artifact _and_ b) use the rules for their non-enchantment part
to figure out if they "turn off". So an animated enchantment wouldn't turn off,
because it would also be a creature, and creatures don't turn off. [But then
it _would_ be affected by Cursed Totem's power...]

> It implies any card. Otherwise it would just be worded, "And gain
>the ability T: Prevent 1 damage from this spell."

Cards that refer to "this card itself" or "this spell itself", in Magic,
tend alomst always to use the _name of the card_ instead of either of those
phrases. If it meant "prevent 1 damage from any Torrent of Lava", _that_
would be the wording it would use, I'm fairly sure.

> No. It is automatic damage reduction, like protection from a color,
>Prismatic Ward, and Bronze Horse. Justice and Eye for an Eye will still deal
>the full amount of assigned damage, since reducing the amount of damage
>dealt, even by automatic passive reduction doesn't reduce the damage Eye for
>an Eye of Justice will deal.

Note that the auto-reduction also applies to Eye for an Eye's damage ... but
not to Justice's.

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

"Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> writes:
>Well, this worked so well with Delany did it for Alliances...lets try it here!

"DeLaney". I'll follow up, and then post a version that catches anything
people here haven't already checked on. [The several-tens-of-thousands-of-
posts spam slowed my site's posting capabilities down for a while.]

Ditto. Stuff I say'll be based on the [checks] 9/16/96 4pm list. Slightly
reformatted, by me, for clarity and punctuation.

>Disclaimer #2: Nobody has posted the `real' rules for how Phasing and Flanking
>work.

They have, but you hadn't seen it yet.

>I'm not going to post the text of the cards I'm commenting on here; you can
>get them yourself. This post will be long enough as it is.

I'll post texts. People'll wanna oooh and aaah anyway, and argue based on
what the text says - I'll save'm the trouble of getting a later version of
the spoiler list to smack me with for.

>Amulet of Unmaking, et al: `Play this ability as a Sorcery' This means
>completely as a sorcery. You turn only, not in response to anything, not
>during combat, etc.

Yep. It's not a spell; it's a fast effect, but it follows the Sorcery timing
rules and restrictions instead of the fast effect ones. Rust, Brown Ouphe,
etc., can counter the artifact ones.

>Basalt Golem: The golem does not need to survive combat to turn blocking
>creatures into statues.

Correct. The Golem's controller at the time of the block is the owner of
the tokens it produces, though they're likely to start off under someone
else's control. [The place the Stones are made is checked at end of
combat...]

>Bone Mask: Can be used with an empty library (or a library with less cards
>than the damage you are taking). The damage is still prevented, no ill effect
>happens from failing to `mill' those cards.

Yep.

>Chariot of the Sun: Current toughness becomes 1.

Well... reportedly Mirage changes the rules a bit in the rulebook, and if
that's correct this reduces _base_ toughness to 1. [And ditto for Sworn
Defender ... and this also makes Island of Wak-Wak/Singing Tree work
differently unless Errataed.]

>Grinning Totem: The card is not really in your hand (just like Elkin Bottle's
>card).

Correct. In addition, you don't own it. If a Sorcery, Interrupt, or Instant,
it goes to opponent's graveyard when it resolves; if not, it goes to their
graveyard, not yours, when it's destroyed.

>Mana Prism: Makes Celestial Prism kinda useless.

Nope; CP's still got a use for "reducing" mana, as when Mana Flare's out.

>Mangara's Tome: Use it during the resolution of a draw effect. Can be used
>with Al's Lamp to modify one of the Lamp draws. [In fact, using the lamp for
>5, and using M's Tome 5 times lets you select one of those 5 cards and return
>the rest to your library...] M's Tome sits in play useless once all 5 cards
>are gone. You can spend mana on the ability when there are no cards on M's
>tome, and you'll lose your draw.

Yep. Unless the text is different.

>Phyrexian Dreadnaught: Total current toughness of 12 or more.

Yes; it's checking it, not changing it. Power, not toughness.

>Sand Golem: Only works on forced discards. [Ie, can't use it on Mind Bomb, or
>Land Tax for example, even if those are cast/controlled by an opponent].

Yep. "Land's Edge", not "Land Tax".

>Teeka's Dragon: `Counts as a Dragon' is exactly the same as saying `Summon
>Dragon' -- except that it is not a summon spell/card. [Rampage: 4?!]

Yes. [Yes. Wheee!]

>Bone Harvest: You choose the order of the cards

If opponent wants to know what you're putting there, they get to see, but
don't get to see the order.

>Breathstealer: Cannot go past 4/0 (or */0) because it will die immediately
>upon resolution and not get to the rest of the stack. [ie, can't make it 9/-5
>to gain 9 life from a Swords to Plowshares]

Unless boosted by, say, Bad Moons.

>Catabomb Dragon: current power.

Yes. Not changing it to a specific number. ["Catabomb"?]

>Drain Life: This wording has you gain life equal to what you spend on the
>spell, not equal to the amount of sucesfully dealt damage. The limit of life
>gaining is the creatures toughness or players life total when you announce the
>spell, not when the spell resolves. [Both of these are different than the 4E
>Drain Life]

Wordings on the page for reprints seem to be inaccurate.

>Dread Specter: Does not need to survive combat to destroy blocking/blocked
>creatures.

Correct.

Mmmm, I think not. The Alliances stuff made you choose targets before/while
choosing target opponent because you didn't know which mode they'd choose.
Twiddle, for instance, doesn't make you choose one target for "tap" and one
for "untap"; Relic Bind doesn't make you choose two target players, one for the
"give 1 life" and 1 for the "deal 1 damage".

See above. Only choose targets for the mode you're using. The "choose all
targets for all modes" bit seems to work only when you don't know at choose-
targets time which mode you'll be using.

>Forsaken Wastes: Spells which fizzle are still considered `sucessfully cast'.
>??? Only applies when Forsaken Wastes is in play. [Counterspelling FW will
>not cause loss of life] ???

Correct.

Or with Soul Echo. Oh no, a Combo!

>Purraj of Urborg: Loses first strike at end of combat or whenever he is
>removed from combat.

Like a reverse Castle, yes.

>Reign of Terror: Can go below zero life; the life is not a payment.

Yes, you're losing it.

>Shallow Grave: I guess `summoning sickness' is an official phrase now.

Yep. It's in the rulebooks, after all.

>Shauku, Endbringer: The upkeep effect is just that -- an effect. You can use
>her special ability on herself (or something else) before dealing with the
>upkeep effect.

Mmm... yes. It's not "pay 3 life". Liched players ignore it.

>Skulking Ghost: ??? The spell/effect must be sucessfully cast ??? The ghost
>is buried before the spell/effect can resolve.

Nope, it gets buried when targets are announced.

>Soul Rend: Can be targetted at a non-white creature (and slieghted to make it
>work). Will not fizzle if the creature is non-white so you can still draw a
>card.

Yes and yes.

>Soulshriek: * is determined when Soulshriek resolves.

Yes.

>Stupor: Can be used if opponent has one (or zero) cards in their hand.

Yes, and will not fizzle. Will simply Do Nothing or half-Do Nothing.

>Urborg Panther: Ability can be used even if you know that Spirit of the Night
>is not in your library.

Sure. Just like all other "search your library for a <foo>" stuff. Ditto
the three Tutors and Rampant Growth and the five fetch-lands and Zirilan of
the Claw ... and Grinning Totem when opponent's library's empty, or Mangara's
Tome when yours doesn't have five cards [in which case you put whatever you
have under it].

>Bazaar of Wonders: Note that spells go to the graveyard when they resolve, so
>you can cast two lightning bolts; one in response to the other; without either
>being countered. Language doesn't matter for determining card names. Can
>counter mana sources (like Dark Ritual).

Doesn't care about cards on an Ice Cauldron, under a Knowledge Vault or
Mangara's Tome, in front of an Elkin Bottle or Grinning Totem, etc.

Yes. All creatures blocking a band DF is in phase out with it. Other attackers
in the band with Trample will deal damage to defender; ones without won't.

>Hakim, Loreweaver: Only checks the `no enchantments' restriction at
>announcement, so you can use the ability more than once (in response to
>itself) to place multiple enchantments on Hakim.

Yes. "Use only when", like the Library of Alexandria, is an announcement
restriction.

>Kukemssa Pirates: Having stolen an artifact doesn't prevent them from stealing
>another one next turn. You keep the artifacts even if the Pirates leave play.

Yep. And even if the Pirates get stolen.

>Meddle: ??? Spell can have other targets, as long as those other targets do
>not target creatures. If Meddled with, only the `fork' of the spell
>targetting a creature is affected. ???

Dunno. May be Errataed quickly to "which targets a single creature only".

>Mind Bend: Hack or Sleight.

Yes. But not both at once.

>Mist Dragon: Both gaining and losing flying are permanent.

Well, modulo the low cost to change again.

>Political Trickery: Switch does not happen if one of the two targets becomes
>illegal.

Correct, I believe. Because they're both targetted. Juxtapose's switch isn't
targetted, and doesn't care. Gauntlets of Chaos' is, and does.

>Ray of Command: !!! Target creature still has summoning sickness; does not
>untap the creature !!! [Different from IA version of card]

Card list has Bugs in it. Someone posted the text on the card in front of
them. You will shortly meet a tall dark stranger. Whoops - wrong prediction
generator.

>Shimmer: ??? Is not restricted to basic land types. `Maze of Ith' can be
>chosen. ??? Cannot choose Snow-covered Xxx since SC is a qualifier. If

>`Swamps' are chosen, then both swamps and SC swamps are affected.

Correct, correct, and correct. If you choose "Swamps", Bayous and other half-
swamp multilands also are affected.

>Delirium: [Multiplayer only] Cannot be d/reflected to another opponent since
>it is not their turn, so they are not a legal target.

Can't be Deflected at all - has two targets. Whether it can be Meddled depends
on the answer to the above.

>Kaervek's Plague: Cards which

>go to the graveyard but don't stay there (eg, Enduring Renewal, token
>creatures, etc) will not trigger this.

Yes, they will. It doesn't care if they stay, only if they go there. Like
Soul Net. Or Creature Bond.

>Purgatory: Can pay (4) and 2 life more than once to put more than one creature
>into play.

Why, yes. Cannot pay unless there's a card under Purgatory.

>Reparations: Card draw is optional. Can draw a card for fizzled (but not
>countered) spells.

Yes, and yes.

>Sawback Manticore: Does not have to use it's second ability on a creature
>Sawback is blocking -- can be used on any attacking/blocking creature.

Yes, like D'Avenant Archers.

>Warping Wurm: Doesn't matter how it phases out -- it gets the counter when it
>phases back in.

Yep. And it keeps the counters each time it phases out ... Fungusaur, anyone?

>Roots of Life: You gain life when SC Islands (or SC Swamps) are tapped. Also
>gain life for the multilands being tapped, even if they are tapped for their
>`other' mana.

Yes. Just like Lifetap/Thoughtleech/Lifeblood.

>Bad River, et al: Can retrieve multilands that are part island or swamp.

Yes. If written as stated.

>Final Fortune: ??? If you skip (or otherwise fail to take) the extra turn,
>then you do not have to deal with the `lose game at the end of that turn' ???

Yep. Time Vault, here we come. And if you win that turn, you don't lose
a bit after the game ends.

>Kaervek's Torch: The extra (2) is not part of the casting cost.

Correct. Note that this also affects, say, a sleighted Deathgrip: "play",
not "cast" or "use".

>Torrent of Lava: Not that it matters much, but the acquired ability is
>permanent

Yes.

>and can be used on other Torrent of Lava spells.

No. It would say "from any Torrent of Lava", not "from Torrent of Lava".

Eye for an Eye's back-slap will also be reduced by it. Justice's won't.

>Divine Retribution: Boy is this card text unclear... I think it means that if
>you attack with 5 creatures, then DR will deal 5 damage to one of those
>attackers.

Needs a comma. Count the attacking creatures, then deal that much damage
to one target attacking creature.

Yep. And you can lose as much life as you want while Soul Echo's in play to
no real effect. Mirror Universe, anyone?

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

Okay, here we go. As Mike noted, this is based on the _spoiler text wordings_;
actual mileage of cards may vary considerably. Don't build decks based on the
spoiler wordings.

A control-L:

This is Version 1.1 Updated 9/16/96 4:00 pm of Neutral Ground's spoiler
list being quoted from. First, generalities:

Phased-out stuff appears to go the same place Coffins or Oubliettes take
creatures, and to have the same "what wears off?" restrictions. Note that
nothing in Mirage lets you phase out an enchantment [except Copy Artifact],
though Spatial Bind lets you _prevent_ one from phasing out [which can make
things interesting if the enchantment's sitting on something that _does_
phase out].

Stuff that doesn't suffer summon-sickness still can't attack when it's not
your turn, etc.

"Play this as a sorcery": It's still a fast effect, but has the timing of
a sorcery and the when-announcing restrictions of one. You can Rust an
Amulet of Unmaking, for instance.

"You may choose to play as an instant; if you do, bury it at end of turn.":
It's still an enchantment, but you can play it as an instant-speed fast
effect spell instead of as an Enchantment spell being cast. Is still an
Enchantment spell - only the timing's different. Playing it as an instant
doesn't let you avoid Avoid Fate or Ring of Immortal's effects.

Spells with "Foo: bar" wording: Unless the spell says otherwise, you can only
pay the cost Foo once, just like you can only pay the casting cost once. Foo
does not become part of the casting cost.

I've reformatted the list and added rarities from the WotC checklist on their
page.

Acidic Dagger Artifact 4 Rare
4,T: Destroy any non-Wall creature receiving combat damage from target creature
this turn. If targeted creature leaves play, bury ~. Use this ability only
before defense is chosen.

[This destruction is non-targetted, and the Dagger's effect that hits the target
creature; the creature has to deal combat damage to trigger the destruction.]

Amber Prison Artifact 4 Rare
You may choose not to untap ~ during your untap phase. 4,T: Tap target artifact,
creature or land. As long as ~ remains tapped, that permanent does not untap
during its controller's untap phase.

[That permanent can untap by other means just fine. Good for locking down a
Seasinger on one creature while you merrily summon better ones.]

Amulet of Unmaking Artifact 5 Rare
5,T, Remove ~ from the game: Remove target artifact, creature or land from the
game. Play this ability as a sorcery.

[The Amulet goes away first. Can be Brown Ouphed; it's still a fast effect, but
at the speed of a sorcery.]

Basalt Golem Artifact Creature 5 Uncommon
2/4. ~ cannot be blocked by artifact creatures. Whenever ~ is blocked by any
creature, bury that creature at end of combat and put a Stone token into play
under the control of the creature's controller. Treat this token as a 0/2
artifact creature that counts as a Wall.

[Basalt Golem's controller at the time of the block owns the Stone tokens and
is the player putting them into play, though it's likely they'll end up
elsewhere.]

Bone Mask Artifact 4 Rare
2,T: Prevent all damage to you from any one source. For each 1 damage prevented
in this way, remove the top card of your library from the game.

[The latter's an effect, not a cost.]

Charcoal Diamond Artifact 2 Uncommon
~ comes into play tapped. T, Add B to your mana pool. Play this ability as a
mana source.

[The Moxen are back, and are fixed-color Fellwar Stones with a disadvantage.
Bleah. Keep trying, WotC.]

Chariot of the Sun Artifact 3 Uncommon
2,T: Target creature you control gains flying and has its toughness reduced to
1 until end of turn.

[Apparently the Mirage rulebook extends "change power and toughness to specific
numbers: affect base number" to "change power _and/or_ toughness...". If so,
this affects base toughness.]

Crystal Golem Artifact Creature 4 Uncommon
3/3. At the end of your turn Crystal Golem phases out.

[Slightly before everything else would, at start of opponent's turn. Don't
see a use for this yet.]

Cursed Totem Artifact 2 Rare
Players cannot play any creature abilities requiring an activation cost.

[_Wham_! This, plus a Xenic: "Your Disk doesn't work. Oh well..." Animate
your opponent's lands - and he _can't tap them for mana_...]

Ersatz Gnomes Artifact Creature 3 Uncommon
1/1. T: Target spell is colorless. Play this ability as an interrupt. T: Target
permanent is colorless until end of turn.

[Colorless spells being cast produce _permanently_ colorless permanents.]

Grinning Totem Artifact 4 Rare
2,T, Sacrifice ~: Search target opponent's library for any card and put it
face-up in front of you. That player shuffles his or her library afterwards.
You may play the card as though it were in your hand. If you do not play the
card by the beginning of your next upkeep, put it into owner's graveyard.

[You do _not_ own their card; this isn't an ante card. {None in Mirage at all,
actually.} The card goes to their graveyard, not yours, when the spell resolves
[Sorcery, fast effects] or when the permanent is destroyed.]

Lead Golem Artifact Creature 5 Uncommon
3/5. If ~ attacks, it does not untap during your next untap phase.

[If it changes controllers... it waits until it gets an untap phase before
failing to untap.]

Lion's Eye Diamond Artifact 0 Rare
Sacrifice ~, Discard your hand: Add three mana of any one color to your mana
pool. Play this ability as a mana source.

[Yes, you discard as a cost. Use the mana to play fast effects from permanents.
Don't play with this and Maro in the same deck. Do play this with Timetwisters
or Diminishing Returns or lots-of-cantrips decks.]

Mana Prism Artifact 3 Uncommon
T: Add one colorless mana to your mana pool. Play this ability as a mana source.
1,T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Play this ability as a mana
source.

[Celestial Prism still has a use - condensing 2 mana into one, when a Mana
Flare's around.]

Mangara's Tome Artifact 5 Rare
When ~ comes into play, search your library and choose any five cards. Shuffle
these cards and put them face down under ~. Shuffle your library afterwards. If
you lose control of ~, remove all cards under it from the game. 2: Instead of
drawing a card, put the top card from under ~ into your hand.

[If you don't have five cards in your library, put what you do have under it.
You can use the ability like Aladdin's Lamp etc.: _when_ you draw a card,
during resolution of a "draw" effect.]

Miser's Cage Artifact 3 Rare
At end of target opponent's upkeep, if that opponent has 5 or more cards in
hand, ~ deals 2 damage to them.

Paupers' Cage Artifact 3 Rare
At end of target opponent's upkeep, if that player has two or fewer cards in
hand, ~ deals 2 damage to him or her.

[Target opponent chosen during casting. Can't be changed.]

Razor Pendulum Artifact 4 Rare
At the end of each player's turn, if any player has 5 or less life, ~ deals 2
damage to him or her.

[And it does it again next turn. And next turn - oops.]

Sand Golem Artifact Creature 5 Uncommon
3/3. If a spell or effect controlled by an opponent causes you to discard ~, put
~ from your graveyard into play at end of turn with a +1/+1 counter on it.

[Forced discards only. "Discard" is hand-to-graveyard, thanks. Won't come into
play if redirected to your library with Library of Leng.]

Telim'Tor's Darts Artifact 2 Uncommon
2,T: ~ deals 1 damage to target player.

[Rod of Ruin, but only for players. The Fountain of Youth's evil twin.]

Unerring Sling Artifact 3 Uncommon
3,T, Tap an untapped creature you control: ~ deals an amount of damage equal to
that creature's power to target attacking or blocking creature with flying.

[No "non-wall" restriction. No "the creature you tap can't already be attacking"
restriction. Power of creature checked at resolution. If the creature is
gone by then, the Sling deals 0 damage.]

Ventifact Bottle Artifact 3 Rare
1X,T: Put X charge counters on ~. Play this ability as a sorcery. At the
beginning of your main phase, if ~ has any charge counters on it, tap ~ and
remove all charge counters from it to add to your mana pool an amount of
colorless mana equal to the number of charge counters removed.

[Mana Drain is back, and it's an artifact.]

Abyssal Hunter Summon Hunter B3 Rare
1/1. B,T: Tap target creature. ~ deals to that creature an amount of damage
equal to ~'s power.

[Tracker is back, and it's Black _and_ one-way.]

Ashen Powder Sorcery BB2 Rare
Put target creature card from an opponent's graveyard into play under your
control.

[Animate Dead is back, and got crossed with Ritual of the Machine. Removing
the targetted card before resolution causes the spell to fizzle.]

Barbed-Back Wurm Summon Wurm B4 Uncommon
4/3. B: Target green creature blocking ~ gets -1/-1 until end of turn.

[The Wurm does _not_ tap to do this, note.]

Binding Agony Enchant Creature B1
For each 1 damage dealt to enchanted creature, ~ deals 1 damage to that
creature's controller.

[Backfire is back in reverse, and it's black.]

Blighted Shaman Summon Cleric B1 Uncommon
1/1. T, Sacrifice a creature: Target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn. T,
Sacrifice a swamp: Target creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn.

[Creature swamps must be sacrificed to one ability or the other, not to both
at once.]

Bone Harvest Instant B2
Put any number of target creature cards from your graveyard on top of your
library. Draw a card at the beginning of the next turn's upkeep.

[Anyone who asks gets to see which cards are going there ... but not what
order they end up in. "Any number" includes zero.]

Catacomb Dragon Summon Dragon BB4 Rare
4/4. Flying. Whenever ~ is blocked by any non-artifact, non-Dragon creature,
that creature's power is halved, rounded up, until end of turn.

[Current power, not base power. The power can be increased or decreased normally
later; the halving doesn't apply to later changes.]

Choking Sands Sorcery BB1
Destroy target non-swamp land. If that land is a non-basic land, ~ deals 2
damage to the land's controller.

[Lands that are swamps can't be targetted. Hack or Mind Bend can cause this
to fizzle; either of those plus Deflection can make it target a swamp. Let's
see: give blue and white non-basic land hosers also, plus an artifact one or
two, and maybe multilands will come back...]

Dread Specter Summon Specter B3 Uncommon
2/2. Whenever ~ blocks or is blocked by a non-black creature, destroy that
creature at end of combat.

[Works even if Dread Specter doesn't live that long.]

Ebony Charm Instant B
Choose one: Target opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life; or remove from the
game up to three cards in any player's graveyard; or target creature cannot be
blocked this turn except by artifact or black creatures.

[Choose targets only for the mode you choose to use.]

Forbidden Crypt Enchantment BB3 Rare
For each card you would draw, instead choose target card in your graveyard and
put it into your hand. If you cannot, you lose the game. Whenever a card is put
into your graveyard, remove that card from the game.

[If the target card you want to draw is removed before the draw resolves ...
you lose. Doesn't care where the cards going into your graveyard are coming
from.]

Forsaken Wastes Enchant World B2 Rare
Players cannot gain life. During each player's upkeep, that player loses 1 life.
If ~ is the target of a successfully cast spell, that spell's caster loses 5
life.

[All this only applies while FW is in play. Can be Tranquilitied, Tranquil
Domained, Disked, or Arenson's Auraed away without life loss.]

Grave Servitude Enchant Creature B1
You may choose to play as an instant; if you do, bury it at end of turn.
Enchanted creature gets +3/-1 and is black.

[It is black in addition to whatever other colors it is; it doesn't say to
_change_ it to black, or that it _becomes_ black...]

Harbinger of Night Summon Spirit BB2 Rare
2/3. During your upkeep, put a -1/-1 counter on each creature.

[Including HotN itself.]

Infernal Contract Sorcery BBB Rare
Pay half your life, rounded up: Draw four cards.

[Contract from Below is back, and it's not an ante card.]

Mire Shade Summon Shade B1 Uncommon
1/1. B, Sacrifice a swamp: Put a +1/+1 counter on ~. Play this ability as a
sorcery.

[Does not tap to use the ability. Cannot use the ability twice in one stack.]

Phyrexian Tribute Sorcery B2 Rare
Sacrifice two creatures: Destroy target artifact.

[This spell destroys one artifact only.]

Restless Dead Summon Skeletons B1
1/1. B: Regenerate.

[*crackle* :hiss: "Every expansion must have Drudge Skeletons... Joooooin
usss.. {thsssss}]

Shallow Grave Instant B1 Rare
Put the top creature card from your graveyard into play as though it were just
played. That creature is unaffected by summoning sickness. Remove the creature
from the game at the end of any turn.

[Creature cards are Summon cards or Artifact Creature cards, no others. If there
are none in your graveyard, this does nothing. This does _not_ target a
specific card - it just gets the top one when it resolves.]

Skulking Ghost Summon Ghost B1
2/1. Flying. If ~ is the target of a spell or effect, bury ~.

[Burial happens during announcement, when targets are chosen. The spell doesn't
have to be successfully cast, and doesn't have to target _only_ SG.]

Soul Rend Instant B1 Uncommon
Bury target creature if it is white. Draw a card at the beginning of the next
turn's upkeep.

[Draw a card even if the creature's not white. Don't draw if the spell fizzles
for illegal target.]

Soulshriek Instant B
Target creature you control gets +*/+0 until end of turn, where * is equal to
the number of creature cards in your graveyard. Bury that creature at end of
turn.

[Count creature cards upon resolution.]

Stupor Sorcery B2 Uncommon
Target opponent discards a card at random, then chooses and discards a card.

[Will do Nothing to an empty hand; will cause discard of one card at random
from a one-card hand.]

Tombstone Stairwell Enchant World BB2 Rare
Cumulative Upkeep 1B. During each upkeep, each player puts into play a Tombspawn
token for each summon card in his or her graveyard. Treat these tokens as 2/2
black creatures that are unaffected by summoning sickness and count as Zombies.
At end of any turn or if ~ leaves play, bury all of these tokens.

[Each player only gets Tombspawn on their own turn. These Zombies get the
Zombie Master's bonuses. The summon cards themselves aren't affected. Multiple
TSs give multiple Tombspawn; each TS' Tombspawn aren't affected by any other
TS leaving play.]

Urborg Panther Summon Night Stalker B2
2/2. B, Sacrifice ~: Destroy target creature blocking ~. Sacrifice Feral Shadow,
Breathstealer, and ~: Search your library for Spirit of the Night and put it
into play as though it were just played. Shuffle your library afterwards.

[Can use the second ability without SotN in your library at all.]

Withering Boon Interrupt B1 Uncommon
Pay 3 life: Counter target summon spell.

[Can only counter one spell.]

Dave "to be continued: Blue!" DeLaney

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

"Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>David Johnson <dav...@msol.u-net.com> wrote in article
><51ntjt$q...@nuntius.u-net.net>...
>| "Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>|
>| >Chariot of the Sun: Current toughness becomes 1.
>| As opposed to base tougness?
>| That IS what they meant I imagine, but not
>| what they wrote. Also if the toughness was <1
>| it is unaffected.

>What do you mean it isn't what they wrote? The card isn't setting both power
>and toughness at the same time to specific numbers and it isn't manipulating
>any '*''s the the target creature's toughness, so it is changing the current
>toughness, not the base toughness.

I always interpreted the rule to mean a change to
either power or toughness not necessarily both at
once. Otherwise you get problems don't you?

Say you have a Pearled Unicorn with G.Growth hit
by the above to become toughness 1.

What is the base toughness? If it is not 1 then I
suppose it is still 2. What is the total toughness?
If it is not 4 then I suppose it is 1.

Where does that leave the bonuses? Doesn't
that mean you have a -0/-4 bonus as well as
the G.Growth's +3/+3 bonus?

Maybe you are happy with that.....

Hmm: seems that the Mirage rulebook agrees.
(with me that is)

>Eh...I don't see how. Bonuses applied to the creature's base power before
>blocking will be halved, those applied afterward will be in full effect.

>[Eg, 1/1 + GG --> 4/4 blocking CD --> 2/4 + GG --> 5/7]

Sorry, you are HAPPY with that? or not?

>| >Ebony Charm, et al: You must still select all targets so this spell targets
>an
>| >opponent and a creature regardless of what ability you want to use. this
>| >means you can't use it if there are no targetable creatures in play, and it
>| >cannot be Deflected (since it has 2 targets). !!! Tom, this should change
>| >because some of the spells worded like this (Chaos Charm) require a very
>| >specific target type for one of the spells alternatives (in this case a
>target
>| >wall) which makes the spell very weak. !!!
>| Eh?
>| You only have to choose targets for the option you choose. Why on
>| earth would you think otherwise????

>Because Tom said with Fatal Lore: [Text: opponent chooses one: you draw 3
>cards; or bury up to two of their target creatures and they draw 3 cards] You
>must name targets for all of the options.

Well then, Tom goofed, didn't he?
Still, I'd be interested in seeing that post.

>| >Ether Well: ??? Checks `redness' at announcement; if it is red, you get the
>| >choice of where to put the creature. If you choose to put it at the bottom
>of
>| >the library and the creature is not red when the spell resolves, then it
>| >fails. ???
>| No. It is modal, since it uses the word "instead". Since it is modal a
>| colour change will not affect anything.

>If it really is Modal, then it would work the way I described -- if it isn't
>red at announcement, you can't choose the `red' option; if it isn't red at
>resolution, then you have an illegal target and it fizzles (if you choose the
>red option).

"Put target creature on top of owner’s library. If that creature is
red, you may choose to put it on the bottom of owner’s library
instead."

Ok, the magic word here is "instead".
If not for this word we would be looking at a TE. But TEs react
to things, they do not replace them.

Basically the creature is never a "target red creature", it works
a bit like Land Tax. Land Tax doesn't care about the number
of lands in play after it has checked to see if it can be announced.
You could even (easily these days) have the Land Tax not
obeying its "you must own less lands than the other guy"
condition throughout its announcement. If you are in your
Upkeep with less lands you may announce the Land Tax's
ability. The other guy says "Even though nothing happens
in the ability's announcement it still goes through that stage,
so I'll sacrifice my Ebon Stronghold at atomic speed, since
it is a mana producer, and then you will no longer have
less lands than me during the announcement." This is
all fine but the Land Tax no longer cares about land.

In the same way a modal effect, once it has determined the
mode it will take, does not care about the conditions it
might have had to fulfil to be able to take that mode.

Even if you pick the "red" option Ether Well doesn't target
a red creature, merely a creature.

Incidentally if it was a TE (miss off the word 'instead') it
would check only on resolution.

To behave as you suggest, perhaps the following wording:

(Modal)
"Put target creature on top of owner’s library, or you may
choose to put target red creature on the top or bottom of
owner’s library."

(TE)
"Put target creature on top of owner’s library. If that creature is
red and was red when targeted, you may choose to put it on the
bottom of owner’s library."

But there isn't a precedent for the latter (hence it sounds awkward)

>No, the Plague notices the creature going to the graveyard so it is satisfied.
> The fact that the creature evaporates (or goes elsewhere after the creature
>gets to the graveyard) does not bother the Plague.

>Note on Disintegration: Only a 3E version will cause it to leave play this
>way -- the 4E version only removes it from the game if it gets lethal damage.

"Destroy target creature with casting cost equal to X. If that
creature is put into the graveyard in this way, Kaervek’s Purge deals
to the creature’s controller an amount of damage equal to the
creature’s power"

Sorry... are you saying the KP does or does not trigger the damage?

>| >Incinerate: !!! Must sucessfully damage the creature to prevent
>regeneration,
>| >not merely be targetted by the creature. [Different than IA version with
>| >eratta]. Note that with the change in damage prevention timing, damage
>| >becomes sucessfuly dealt -before- you regenerate so the side effect of the
>| >damage can be `applied' fast enough. !!! !!! Tom: Should IA Eratta be
>removed
>| >b/c it is no longer necessary? !!!
>| Where / when was this posted???
>| Clearly, I'm missing something. When are you meant to
>| regenerate if not even as a side effect of damage?

>Okay...a bit of history.
{fine}

>Now 5E was released, which has this to say on Damage Prevention:
>| Regeneration: As noted above, regeneration effects are now specialized
>| effects used as soon as a creature would be put into a graveyard;
>| regeneration is not part of damage prevention. [Tom Wylie's 5E post, Duelist
>#13]

So when exactly during DP do you get a DsP? Isn't receiving sucessful
lethal damage grounds for a regeneration? That happens at the end of
(what used to be called) step A. BEFORE side effects. Side effects
are merely TEs from succesful damage, whereas the DsP is an
atomic speed SE. It will go off before the side effects. Otherwise all
the DsP stuff wouldn't work in more normal situations.

>| >Benevolent Unicorn: All spells, all creatures. It's not selective. Works
>on
>| >`unpreventable damage' like Lava Burst. Justice and Eye for an Eye will
>still
>| >`see' the original damage, not the reduced damage.
>| Depends on the timing. Does it mean that, for example, if you cast a
>| Lightning Bolt, it only assigns 2 points damage IN THE FIRST PLACE?
>| If so, Justice and Eye for Eye will never see the 3 points, only 2.

>The spell deals 3, BU reduces that damage to 2, the damage is applied to the
>creature, etc. Justice and EfaE sees that the spell originally applied 3
>points of damage (before the BU reduced the damage by one).

"1/2. Whenever a spell assigns damage to a creature or player, that
damage is reduced by 1."

Hmmm... well you're probably right, it acts just like an automatic
damage prevention thingy. Goes off at the beginning of step A
of DP?

David

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

David Johnson <dav...@msol.u-net.com> wrote in article

<51rfrh$r...@nuntius.u-net.net>...

Base Toughness is 2; the current toughness is 1. The current effect
completely overrides the old base and says `your toughness IS 1', rather than
saying (like GG) your toughness is three more than the base.

SQing a 3/3 Charioted creature will change the creature's power, but not it's
toughness. SQ changes the base to 0/2. Since the Chariot doesn't care about
power, you recalc the current power using the 0 as the base, but the Chariot
does care about toughness and makes it exactly 1, changing the base toughness
later will have no effect on this.

See: Singing Trees reduces the -current- power to 0. [Text: (T): Reduce an
attacking creature's power to 0.]

Singing Tree:
Changes creature's current power to zero but does not prevent raising it
after the Tree has been used on it. [Arab FAQ 01/05/94] The full effect
is to apply a -P/-0 to the creature where P=power of creature when the
Tree is used. [Aahz]

[Actually, that I wonder if that last sentence is meant to be explanitory or
if it is exactly what happens? If that really is true, then Charioting a 3/3
creature means applying -0/-2 to it. Then you SQ it and it becomes 0/2 with a
-0/-2, total of 0/0 and it dies, which I don't think it how it is supposed to
work... TOM?]

| In the same way a modal effect, once it has determined the
| mode it will take, does not care about the conditions it
| might have had to fulfil to be able to take that mode.

Okay...assume it is modal. (Which I'm sure it is). At announcement, if the
creature is not red, then (just like Land Tax) you can't use that ability; you
must use the other ability. And having the creature become red later won't
let you back up and remake the choice.

Now, lets say the creature is red and you choose the red option. So the text
of effect you are using is `If that creature is red...put it on the bottom of
owner's library...' [You may choose snipped because you have already chosen.
:-) This is very similar to `Hydroblast' `Destroy target creature if it is
red'. So at resolution, the modal sentence checks and looks: Is the creature
red? [Yes] off to the bottom of the library. [No] Well, I can't do this to
you, so nothing happens.

| Even if you pick the "red" option Ether Well doesn't target
| a red creature, merely a creature.

That doesn't mean it will do stuff to red creatures, just like Hydroblast.

|
| Incidentally if it was a TE (miss off the word 'instead') it
| would check only on resolution.

No, because it gives you a choice. Choices must be made at announcement. If
the text were something like: `Put target creature on top of owner's library.
If that creature is red, put it on the bottom of owner's library instead.'
[IE, no choice], then it would look at resolution to see if it is red (it
doesn't care at announcement) and send the creature to the right location.
[The only way this `new' spell could be modal would be for it to word
something like this `Put target non-red creature on top of owner's library, or
put target red creature on the bottom of owner's library']

This actually targets a red creature; but is basically the same card effect as
the current version.

Nope...the choice is still being made at announcement because all choices that
you can make, must be made at announcement. [Choices you can't make are those
that depend on hidden information: cards in hand, cards in library, the
results of random flips, etc]

Ah...this is the problem: My text file says `If that creature is _NOT_ put
into the graveyard...' (which to me meant that this card was to punish people
who regenerated or otherwise saved their creature). Hence, the confusion.
:-)

| So when exactly during DP do you get a DsP? Isn't receiving sucessful
| lethal damage grounds for a regeneration? That happens at the end of
| (what used to be called) step A. BEFORE side effects. Side effects
| are merely TEs from succesful damage, whereas the DsP is an
| atomic speed SE. It will go off before the side effects. Otherwise all
| the DsP stuff wouldn't work in more normal situations.

DsP: Destroy Prevention? It is used as an effect when you would normally put
the creature into the graveyard. Yes, receiving sucessful lethal damage is
grounds for regeneration, but you can only do the regeneration -after- the DP
step and after all side effects from that damage have happened. Side effects
from damage happen -inside- (at the end of) the DP step; regeneration happens
after the DP step (as a new SE/TE).

| "1/2. Whenever a spell assigns damage to a creature or player, that
| damage is reduced by 1."
|
| Hmmm... well you're probably right, it acts just like an automatic
| damage prevention thingy. Goes off at the beginning of step A
| of DP?

Yes, at the start of DP.

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

| "Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> writes:
| >Well, this worked so well with Delany did it for Alliances...lets try it
here!
|
| "DeLaney". I'll follow up, and then post a version that catches anything

Sorry.

| >Disclaimer #2: Nobody has posted the `real' rules for how Phasing and
Flanking
| >work.
|
| They have, but you hadn't seen it yet.

Yes, the post finally got to my site, 6 days after being posted.

| >Chariot of the Sun: Current toughness becomes 1.
|
| Well... reportedly Mirage changes the rules a bit in the rulebook, and if
| that's correct this reduces _base_ toughness to 1. [And ditto for Sworn
| Defender ... and this also makes Island of Wak-Wak/Singing Tree work
| differently unless Errataed.]

Hm...I wonder which will cause more problems. [I was basing my statement off
of the Singing Tree rulings...]

| >Breathstealer: Cannot go past 4/0 (or */0) because it will die immediately
| >upon resolution and not get to the rest of the stack. [ie, can't make it
9/-5
| >to gain 9 life from a Swords to Plowshares]
|
| Unless boosted by, say, Bad Moons.

Hence, mentioning the */0 in paranthesis. :-)

| >Drain Life: This wording has you gain life equal to what you spend on the
| >spell, not equal to the amount of sucesfully dealt damage. The limit of
life
| >gaining is the creatures toughness or players life total when you announce
the
| >spell, not when the spell resolves. [Both of these are different than the
4E
| >Drain Life]
|
| Wordings on the page for reprints seem to be inaccurate.

The only other one I saw that was inaccurate was Ray of Command. I'd believe
that Drain Life gets reworded this way...

[NB: The text for Drain Life as listed in the spoiler file is:
Choose a target creature or player. For each (B) you spend in addition to the
casting cost, do 1 damage to that creature or player and gain 1 life. You
cannot gain more life than the creature's toughness or the player's life
total.
]

| >Shallow Grave: I guess `summoning sickness' is an official phrase now.
|
| Yep. It's in the rulebooks, after all.

Before it was just a `slang' phrase in the rulebook though. Glad to see that
it is `official' enough to use in card text.

| >Bazaar of Wonders: Note that spells go to the graveyard when they resolve,
so
| >you can cast two lightning bolts; one in response to the other; without
either
| >being countered. Language doesn't matter for determining card names. Can
| >counter mana sources (like Dark Ritual).
|
| Doesn't care about cards on an Ice Cauldron, under a Knowledge Vault or
| Mangara's Tome, in front of an Elkin Bottle or Grinning Totem, etc.

Eh...it does care when you -cast- a spell from an Ice Cauldron, Elkin Bottle,
etc. It just doesn't care about cards sitting on them.

| >Delirium: [Multiplayer only] Cannot be d/reflected to another opponent
since
| >it is not their turn, so they are not a legal target.
|
| Can't be Deflected at all - has two targets. Whether it can be Meddled
depends
| on the answer to the above.

Must be misremembering -- I thought you could use Reflecting Mirror on spells
that targetted you and something else; I guess I was wrong. That probably
means that Meddle can't Meddle with things which target one creature plus
something else.

How about `Can't be forked to another player since it is not their turn, so
they are not a legal target. Can't be forked by the original target at all
because they are not a legal target (because they are not an opponent) and
nobody else is a legal target.

|
| >Kaervek's Plague: Cards which
| >go to the graveyard but don't stay there (eg, Enduring Renewal, token
| >creatures, etc) will not trigger this.
|
| Yes, they will. It doesn't care if they stay, only if they go there. Like
| Soul Net. Or Creature Bond.

As mentioned, I got botched text for this which said `if that creature is NOT
put into the graveyard...' which of course makes my ruling exactly backwards.

|
| >Purgatory: Can pay (4) and 2 life more than once to put more than one
creature
| >into play.
|
| Why, yes. Cannot pay unless there's a card under Purgatory.

Why not? It's `cost: non-targetted effect'. You can pay the cost and watch
the non-targetted effect fail. [Much like you can pay to remove a
non-existant -2/-2 counter from Ebon Praetor even if he doesn't have one]

| >Torrent of Lava: Not that it matters much, but the acquired ability is
| >permanent
|
| Yes.
|
| >and can be used on other Torrent of Lava spells.
|
| No. It would say "from any Torrent of Lava", not "from Torrent of Lava".

It's one card (the target) refering to another card (Torrent of Lava) by name;
by default that means any Torrent of Lava.

Again...not that this matters much.

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

David Johnson <dav...@msol.u-net.com> wrote in article

<51q5pi$i...@nuntius.u-net.net>...

| dg...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Daniel M Gray) wrote:
|

| >>>Catabomb Dragon: current power.
| >>Same problem as the Phantasamal Fiend. Base power
| >>is set and then boosted by add ons. They should sort
| >>this lot out. Maybe they have in the 5th rules........
|
| > Catacomb Dragon just says "power is halved," so this is definitely
| >current power, not base power.
|

| But you just said:
| "If a spell or effect changes a creature's power and/or toughness to a
| certain number, treat that as changing only the number on the card."

| [Mirage rulebook]

`power is halved' is not a `certain number'.

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

| > Which interrupts are now instants? Are sleights/hacks? What about
| > (gasp) COUNTERSPELLS???
| >
| This is my understanding.
|
| If it targets a permanent, it's an instant.
| If it targets a "casting", (== spells or effects), it's an interrupt
| If it doesn't target anything, it's a mana source or instant.

I'd use the categories:
If it targets a "casting", it's an interrupt
If it generates only mana (or is a land and generates mana), it's a mana
source
Otherwise, it's an instant.

|
| So a sleight/hack/blast targetting a permanent is instant, if it targets a
| spell it's an interrupt. Counterspells, of course, always target spells,
| so they're interrupts.

Yes.

Jim Hamp

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

On Wed, 18 Sep 1996, Erik wrote:

> Jim Hamp wrote:
> >
> > On 16 Sep 1996, Daniel M Gray wrote:
> > >

> > > This looks in the player's hand for all blue or part blue cards with
> > > spell type "Interrupt." Old interrupts that now play as instants all the
> > > time(like Reset) or mana sources(Dark Ritual, etc.) have universal errata to
> > > that effect, and are thus not interrupts. This really only applies to Reset,
> > > if memory serves(unless someone's got a Sleighted Celestial Dawn in play).
> > >
> > Speaking of, Hacking a CD would be the ultimate hoser, since all their
> > lands would be (say) swamps, and all their cards would require W to cast
> > except artifacts. Sleighting it would have little effect since they
> > would be a M:tG anomaly, a deck full of (say) Blue cards that require W
> > to cast.
>

> Which interrupts are now instants? Are sleights/hacks? What about
> (gasp) COUNTERSPELLS???
>
This is my understanding.

If it targets a permanent, it's an instant.
If it targets a "casting", (== spells or effects), it's an interrupt
If it doesn't target anything, it's a mana source or instant.

So a sleight/hack/blast targetting a permanent is instant, if it targets a

spell it's an interrupt. Counterspells, of course, always target spells,
so they're interrupts.

Hampster

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

David Johnson <dav...@msol.u-net.com> wrote in article

<51rv8q$2...@nuntius.u-net.net>...

| >Phased-out stuff appears to go the same place Coffins or Oubliettes take
| >creatures, and to have the same "what wears off?" restrictions. Note that
| >nothing in Mirage lets you phase out an enchantment [except Copy Artifact],
| >though Spatial Bind lets you _prevent_ one from phasing out [which can make
| >things interesting if the enchantment's sitting on something that _does_
| >phase out].
|

Going into a Coffin and back out does not reset CU. Phasing out and back in
also doesn't reset CU. Those both work the same. Difference #1 is due to
specific card text on the Coffin.

Suggestion: Eratta the card text for Oubliette and Tawnos' Coffin to be:

Oubliette nC4e5U Enchantment 1BB
Target creature becomes tapped and phases out. That creature phases
in only when Oubliette leaves play.

Tawnos's Coffin qUe5U Artifact 4
You may choose not to untap Tawnos's Coffin during your untap phase.
(3T): Target creature becomes tapped and phases out. That creature
phases in only when Tawnos's Coffin untaps or leaves play.

| >Sand Golem Artifact Creature 5 Uncommon
| >3/3. If a spell or effect controlled by an opponent causes you to discard
~, put
| > ~ from your graveyard into play at end of turn with a +1/+1 counter on it.
|
| >[Forced discards only. "Discard" is hand-to-graveyard, thanks. Won't come
into
| >play if redirected to your library with Library of Leng.]
|

| No. Discard includes the Library of Leng type "you may DISCARD to the
| top of your library rather than to the graveyard." [card text].

But Sand Golem's text says that it can only come into play if it is in the
graveyard, so if you redirect it to your library, it isn't in your graveyard
to return to play.

| >Grave Servitude Enchant Creature B1
| >You may choose to play as an instant; if you do, bury it at end of turn.
| > Enchanted creature gets +3/-1 and is black.
|
| >[It is black in addition to whatever other colors it is; it doesn't say to
| >_change_ it to black, or that it _becomes_ black...]
|

| I disagree. Your quibble here is based on the tense of the
| verb "to be":

I also disagree. The creature is black, period. Not black + whatever it was
before.

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) wrote:

>It may be that the Alliances spells, thinking about it, are ruled that way
>because you don't _know_ which option opponent'll choose until after you
>target the opponent ... so you have to choose the targets for Option B in
>_case_ it gets chosen. ["Hidden knowledge"?] But when you _cast_ a Charm,
>it's modal, and you _know_ which mode it's in... so you only have to choose
>for the mode it's in. [Case: Twiddle is modal ... but you don't have to choose
>two targets, one for the "tap" and one for the "untap".]

IMO, Fatal Lore is modal too. Only difference is that the
opponent chooses the mode.

And, yes, the implication of what Tom _reportedly_ said, is
that Twiddle needs two targets declared.

David

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) wrote:

>>Chariot of the Sun: Current toughness becomes 1.
>Well... reportedly Mirage changes the rules a bit in the rulebook, and if
>that's correct this reduces _base_ toughness to 1. [And ditto for Sworn
>Defender ... and this also makes Island of Wak-Wak/Singing Tree work
>differently unless Errataed.]

They were errata-ed. Quite a while ago too.

>>Teeka's Dragon: `Counts as a Dragon' is exactly the same as saying `Summon
>>Dragon' -- except that it is not a summon spell/card. [Rampage: 4?!]
>Yes. [Yes. Wheee!]

Calm down lads. There's a magic.strategy for that sort of outburst....

>>Political Trickery: Switch does not happen if one of the two targets becomes
>>illegal.
>Correct, I believe. Because they're both targetted. Juxtapose's switch isn't
>targetted, and doesn't care. Gauntlets of Chaos' is, and does.

Juxtapose does care. Effect will fail. Tom ruled on this
but it's obvious anyway. By definition of "exchange"
you cannot "exchange" a single thing. Similarly with
words like "instead" and "swap".

>>Purgatory: Can pay (4) and 2 life more than once to put more than one creature
>>into play.
>Why, yes. Cannot pay unless there's a card under Purgatory.

"Whenever a summon card is put into your graveyard from play, put that
card face up under Purgatory. During your upkeep, you may pay 4 (mana)
and 2 life to put any card under Purgatory into play as though it were
just played. If Purgatory leaves play, remove all cards under it from
the game."

You may pay out as many times as you like even with no cards there.
Even, I might add, if the 2nd sentence follows the first with no line
break.

>Eye for an Eye's back-slap will also be reduced by it. Justice's won't.

Could you explain your opinion here?

David

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

"Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> wrote:

>David Johnson <dav...@msol.u-net.com> wrote in article

>| >| "Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>| >|
>| >| >Chariot of the Sun: Current toughness becomes 1.
>| >| As opposed to base tougness?

{blah blah}

>Base Toughness is 2; the current toughness is 1. The current effect
>completely overrides the old base and says `your toughness IS 1', rather than
>saying (like GG) your toughness is three more than the base.

{blah blah}

>Singing Tree:
> Changes creature's current power to zero but does not prevent raising it
> after the Tree has been used on it. [Arab FAQ 01/05/94] The full effect
> is to apply a -P/-0 to the creature where P=power of creature when the
> Tree is used. [Aahz]

>[Actually, that I wonder if that last sentence is meant to be explanitory or
>if it is exactly what happens? If that really is true, then Charioting a 3/3
>creature means applying -0/-2 to it. Then you SQ it and it becomes 0/2 with a
>-0/-2, total of 0/0 and it dies, which I don't think it how it is supposed to
>work... TOM?]

Actually it's simple. Turns out my intuition was correct. Now
it is officialy in the Mirage rulebook (they say). Changes to
EITHER power OR toughness to set numbers are changes
to the base stat.

Which is presumably precisely why they errata-ed Singing Tree /
Island of Wak-Wak.

>| >| >Ether Well: ??? Checks `redness' at announcement; if it is red, you get
>the
>| >| >choice of where to put the creature. If you choose to put it at the
>bottom
>| >of
>| >| >the library and the creature is not red when the spell resolves, then it
>| >| >fails. ???
>| >| No. It is modal, since it uses the word "instead". Since it is modal a
>| >| colour change will not affect anything.

{blah, blah}

>Okay...assume it is modal. (Which I'm sure it is). At announcement, if the
>creature is not red, then (just like Land Tax) you can't use that ability; you
>must use the other ability. And having the creature become red later won't
>let you back up and remake the choice.

>Now, lets say the creature is red and you choose the red option. So the text
>of effect you are using is `If that creature is red...put it on the bottom of
>owner's library...' [You may choose snipped because you have already chosen.
>:-) This is very similar to `Hydroblast' `Destroy target creature if it is
>red'. So at resolution, the modal sentence checks and looks: Is the creature
>red? [Yes] off to the bottom of the library. [No] Well, I can't do this to
>you, so nothing happens.

"Put target creature on top of owner’s library. If that creature is

red, you may choose to put it on the bottom of owner’s library
instead"

If the creature is red and you use the red option the text
of the effect would be,
"put it [the target creature] on the bottom of owner’s library"
The "if the creature is red... instead" bit is what sets up the modal
part of the spell.

>| Even if you pick the "red" option Ether Well doesn't target
>| a red creature, merely a creature.

>That doesn't mean it will do stuff to red creatures, just like Hydroblast.
>|
>| Incidentally if it was a TE (miss off the word 'instead') it
>| would check only on resolution.

>No, because it gives you a choice. Choices must be made at announcement. If
>the text were something like: `Put target creature on top of owner's library.
> If that creature is red, put it on the bottom of owner's library instead.'
>[IE, no choice], then it would look at resolution to see if it is red (it
>doesn't care at announcement) and send the creature to the right location.
>[The only way this `new' spell could be modal would be for it to word
>something like this `Put target non-red creature on top of owner's library, or
>put target red creature on the bottom of owner's library']

Well, we are having problems with what choices are made
on announcement are we not? You have pointed out recently
Tom's goof over cards which give the modal choice to the
opponent. However I think I'm right here in saying that you would
not have to choose (for the version with the word "instead"
removed) until the TE kicked in. In fact you would not even
know if there WAS a choice until then. I do not think you
are forced to make choices that are contingent on events that
while described in the spell, have not happened, and may
never happen. That is my interpretation of the (rather vague
ruling on what choices are made).

Actually has anyone got a copy of that original post by Tom?

>| (TE)
>| "Put target creature on top of owner’s library. If that creature is
>| red and was red when targeted, you may choose to put it on the
>| bottom of owner’s library."

>Nope...the choice is still being made at announcement because all choices that
>you can make, must be made at announcement. [Choices you can't make are those
>that depend on hidden information: cards in hand, cards in library, the
>results of random flips, etc]

Is it not "hidden" information (ie unknown) as to the colour of the
creature upon resolution? You cannot know in announcement
what colour the creature WILL be.

David

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

"Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> wrote:

>| So when exactly during DP do you get a DsP? Isn't receiving sucessful
>| lethal damage grounds for a regeneration? That happens at the end of
>| (what used to be called) step A. BEFORE side effects. Side effects
>| are merely TEs from succesful damage, whereas the DsP is an
>| atomic speed SE. It will go off before the side effects. Otherwise all
>| the DsP stuff wouldn't work in more normal situations.

>DsP: Destroy Prevention? It is used as an effect when you would normally put
>the creature into the graveyard. Yes, receiving sucessful lethal damage is
>grounds for regeneration, but you can only do the regeneration -after- the DP
>step and after all side effects from that damage have happened. Side effects
>from damage happen -inside- (at the end of) the DP step; regeneration happens
>after the DP step (as a new SE/TE).

Now consider the following:

Structure of DP:
(1) Automatic prevention or redirection effects

(2) Voluntary prevention or redirection effects,
using batches of effects.

(3) Automatic delayed prevention or redirection
(eg some Bodyguards).

(4) End of prevention and redirection.
Assigned damage is considered successfully dealt.
Creatures still with lethal damage are destoyed.

That way DP is very simple (in fact the above is the
same as "Step A" used to be in 4th). All we have to
do now is note that step (4) above will possibly trigger
a DsP if any creatures were destroyed, or some TEs,
if any of that succesfully dealt damage had a Side
Effect.

The timing of the DsP and TEs is now dealt with in
exactly the same way as they would if triggered by
ANY effect.

Can't be bothered thinking of a good
example. Say Lord of Tresserhorn only destroyed
instead of sacrificing two creatures as it entered
play. Now LoT causes three things to happen
which are not on the card (1) a DsP for the
two destroyed creatures, (2) 2 TEs for the two
cards drawn by the opponent (say we have
Underworld Dreams in play) when it enters play
and (3) possible TEs off the death of the creatures
if we do not save them in (1).

What is their order?
The DsP comes in first (actually tacked on the
end of the resolution of summoning the LoT)
and then the TEs may be announced. The TEs
from step (2) triggered first but this does not give
them any advantage in being announced first
over the TEs from step (3). Depending upon who
controlls the creatures and UD they are announced
in whatever order.

So we know that in this sort of situation the DsP
goes off before the TE. Applying this to the end of
the DP we get:

(a) DP
(b) DsP
(c) Side effects and Death effects mixed up.

Shame it is not quite what we are used to but
that is how it would work. Shame WotC think
that Side effects come before DsP but they can
always errata the new Disintergrate like all the
other Disintegrates they got wrong!

Structure of DsP would be similar to DP:

(1) Automatic regeneration and destruction prevention.

(2) Voluntary regeneration and destruction prevention.
NOT in batches.

(3) [there is no delayed auto regeneration yet]

(4) Destruction considered sucessful.
Bury sucessfully destroyed things.

Death events would follow as TEs.

Now you have to at least admit that it looks much nicer
my way.

David.

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

>Phased-out stuff appears to go the same place Coffins or Oubliettes take
>creatures, and to have the same "what wears off?" restrictions. Note that
>nothing in Mirage lets you phase out an enchantment [except Copy Artifact],
>though Spatial Bind lets you _prevent_ one from phasing out [which can make
>things interesting if the enchantment's sitting on something that _does_
>phase out].

Not quite. Differences between phased and TC-ed:

(1) don't return tapped
(2) don't get summoning Sickness
(3) re-set Cumulative Upkeep.
Would be better to standardise (2) and (3).

>Lead Golem Artifact Creature 5 Uncommon
>3/5. If ~ attacks, it does not untap during your next untap phase.

>[If it changes controllers... it waits until it gets an untap phase before
>failing to untap.]

No. "Your next untap" is defined when you attack. It does not
change if "your" does. Tom has ruled this for Joven's Ferrets.

More interesting: what if "next untap" changes after the phrase
is defined? Eg. Someone plays Stasis. Logically the untap you
don't untap the the LG in is the one missed, but I think the Ivory
Gargoyle ruling went the other way.

>Sand Golem Artifact Creature 5 Uncommon
>3/3. If a spell or effect controlled by an opponent causes you to discard ~, put
> ~ from your graveyard into play at end of turn with a +1/+1 counter on it.

>[Forced discards only. "Discard" is hand-to-graveyard, thanks. Won't come into
>play if redirected to your library with Library of Leng.]

No. Discard includes the Library of Leng type "you may DISCARD to the

top of your library rather than to the graveyard." [card text].

>Catacomb Dragon Summon Dragon BB4 Rare
>4/4. Flying. Whenever ~ is blocked by any non-artifact, non-Dragon creature,
> that creature's power is halved, rounded up, until end of turn.

>[Current power, not base power. The power can be increased or decreased normally
>later; the halving doesn't apply to later changes.]

Takes current power and halves it. Applies that to base power.
Re-apply adds to get new current power.

>Grave Servitude Enchant Creature B1
>You may choose to play as an instant; if you do, bury it at end of turn.
> Enchanted creature gets +3/-1 and is black.

>[It is black in addition to whatever other colors it is; it doesn't say to
>_change_ it to black, or that it _becomes_ black...]

I disagree. Your quibble here is based on the tense of the
verb "to be":
present active: it is
present passive: it becomes
future active: it will be
future passive: it will become
I'm not sure how you would word it to do what you suggest.
Perhaps "becomes black but retains any other colours it
might have been"

>Skulking Ghost Summon Ghost B1
>2/1. Flying. If ~ is the target of a spell or effect, bury ~.

>[Burial happens during announcement, when targets are chosen. The spell doesn't
>have to be successfully cast, and doesn't have to target _only_ SG.]

Actually it is a TE following announcement. Boy, oh boy, if it was the
way you describe.......!!!!!!

>Tombstone Stairwell Enchant World BB2 Rare
>Cumulative Upkeep 1B. During each upkeep, each player puts into play a Tombspawn
> token for each summon card in his or her graveyard. Treat these tokens as 2/2
> black creatures that are unaffected by summoning sickness and count as Zombies.
> At end of any turn or if ~ leaves play, bury all of these tokens.

>[Each player only gets Tombspawn on their own turn. These Zombies get the
>Zombie Master's bonuses. The summon cards themselves aren't affected. Multiple
>TSs give multiple Tombspawn; each TS' Tombspawn aren't affected by any other
>TS leaving play.]

Eh?? "During each upkeep, each player puts into play...."
Both players, every turn ==> knee deep in Zombies.

David

Daniel M Gray

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

dav...@msol.u-net.com (David Johnson) writes:

>dg...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Daniel M Gray) wrote:

>>>>Catabomb Dragon: current power.
>>>Same problem as the Phantasamal Fiend. Base power
>>>is set and then boosted by add ons. They should sort
>>>this lot out. Maybe they have in the 5th rules........

>> Catacomb Dragon just says "power is halved," so this is definitely
>>current power, not base power.

>But you just said:
>"If a spell or effect changes a creature's power and/or toughness to a
>certain number, treat that as changing only the number on the card."
>[Mirage rulebook]

Right. That means that if a card is worded like Sorceress Queen, "T:
Any other target creature becomes 0/2 until end of turn," treat it as
changing only the base numbers. Catacomb Dragon says, "If Catacomb Dragon
blocks or is blocked by a non-dragon, non-artifact creature, that creature's
power is halved until end of turn." That isn't changing the power to a
specific number, it is simply instructing you to take the current number and
halve it.

>>>>Dream Fighter: ??? If blocked by more than one creature, all such creatures
>>>>phase out. ??? If DF is a member of an attacking band, other members of the
>>>>band are still blocked, but are still attacking (and don't phase out).

>>>The effect is triggered for all the blockers but since the DF is gone
>>>after the first TE resolves, it will be impossible to announce the
>>>subsequent TEs.

>> The effect triggers simultaneously for all blockers(or all things

>>blocked by Dream Fighter in the case of Blaze of Glory or that new one that
>>lets you block up to three things whose name escapes me).

>Absolutely. It/they TRIGGER simultaneously.

>But the TEs do not resolve simultaneously.

And I cannot think of a single situation where the order they
resolve in would matter at all. Although they resolve in order, the fact
that the Dream Fighter may be phased out when another one of the TE's
attempts to resolve is irrelevant-- the effect still went off. The fact the
source isn't still around doesn't mean anything.

>"1/1. Whenever Dream Fighter blocks or is blocked by a creature, Dream
>Fighter and that creature phase out."

>Yes, so Tom ruled that way during the bash, so would've I.
>It obviously meant to say "DF and all creatures blocking it
>or blocked by it..."
>or whatever......

Probably true. Fact is, I stand by Tom's ruling; I really don't care
what the justification is-- if he ruled tomorrow that all black spells
resolve last in a spell stack, then that's the way we'd have to play.

>>>>Ether Well: ??? Checks `redness' at announcement; if it is red, you get the
>>>>choice of where to put the creature. If you choose to put it at the bottom of
>>>>the library and the creature is not red when the spell resolves, then it
>>>>fails. ???
>>>No. It is modal, since it uses the word "instead". Since it is modal a
>>>colour change will not affect anything.

>> Hmm. I'm not sure about this one, but it sounds good. If my memory

>>is correct(which it very well couldn't be), didn't Tom rule that the Elvish
>>Healer isn't modal, and that a color change won't cause the Healer to
>>fizzle, just prevent less damage?

>Well, if he did he was wrong IMO. Elvish Healer looks modal.
>They changed there minds about Icequake too - realised it was modal.

Agreed that Elvish Healer looks modal, but I have stuck in my brain
that Tom said it wasn't(for some reason). I could just be losing it, of
course. Anyone else remember this one?

>>>>Ray of Command: !!! Target creature still has summoning sickness; does not
>>>>untap the creature !!! [Different from IA version of card]

>>>Also: it does not tap when it returns, it returns tapped.

>> Which is, unless I'm mistaken, a semantical difference only.
>>"Returning tapped" is still tapping the creature and would trigger Spirit
>>Shackle, would it not?

>It would not.
>Compare the card text of Tawnos' Coffin / Oubliette with the [rather
>old] rulings they produced.

Hmm. Good point. Of course, the Ray'd creature isn't coming back
from the nowhere zone, it's merely changing controllers.

>>>>Torrent of Lava: Not that it matters much, but the acquired ability is

>>>>permanent and can be used on other Torrent of Lava spells. Note that this
>>>>matters only if you redirect damage from a 2nd Torrent of Lava to a creature
>>>>affected by the first (and the 2nd ToL doesn't affect it).
>>>I'd say that when the card says "Torrent of Lava" it means "Me" and
>>>not ANY Torrent of Lava card.

>> It implies any card. Otherwise it would just be worded, "And gain

>>the ability T: Prevent 1 damage from this spell."

>No. Spells don't refer to themselves as "this spell", but rather by

>their own name (possibly shortened). I don't know why. It'd be
>easier to see what was going on if they didn't. When Sorceress Queen
>says she doesn't target Sorceress Queen, she means she cannot
>target herself, not ANY SQ.

You can argue it either way, I'm afraid. We'll have to get something
official to resolve this one. Unless I'm mistaken, the current preferred
wording for an ability like SQ is "Any other target creature," which, yes,
obviously implies any other creature except herself(even another SQ).

Dan Gray

Daniel M Gray

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

"Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> writes:

>| >Drain Life: This wording has you gain life equal to what you spend on the
>| >spell, not equal to the amount of sucesfully dealt damage. The limit of
>life
>| >gaining is the creatures toughness or players life total when you announce
>the
>| >spell, not when the spell resolves. [Both of these are different than the
>4E
>| >Drain Life]
>|
>| Wordings on the page for reprints seem to be inaccurate.

>The only other one I saw that was inaccurate was Ray of Command. I'd believe
>that Drain Life gets reworded this way...

>[NB: The text for Drain Life as listed in the spoiler file is:
>Choose a target creature or player. For each (B) you spend in addition to the
>casting cost, do 1 damage to that creature or player and gain 1 life. You
>cannot gain more life than the creature's toughness or the player's life
>total.
>]

Just to clear this one up. The actual text of the Mirage Drain
Life(reading from the actual card):
"For each B you spend in the addition to the casting cost, Drain
Life deals 1 damage to target creature or player. Gain 1 life for each 1
damage dealt, but not more than toughness of the creature or the life total
of the player Drain Life damages."

Works the same as 4E one(and has far better artwork).
Dan Gray

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/19/96

"Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> wrote:

>David Johnson <dav...@msol.u-net.com> wrote in article

><51q5pi$i...@nuntius.u-net.net>...

>`power is halved' is not a `certain number'.

It is.

Basically all they are doing is differentiating between adds or
bonuses (+X/+Y, -X/-Y) that make a relative change and absolute
numbers that assign a number overall.

Whether the absolute number(s) are derived by formula or not is
irrelevant. For that matter a bonus derived by formula would still
be a bonus.

I mean do you think the Sentinel changes its base toughness?
That is a formula too: "1 plus the power of target creature blocking
or blocked by sentinel"

David

S Johnson

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

bit...@seal.engr.sgi.com (James Buster) wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Sep 1996, Cpaths wrote:
>> As Mike indicates, Mind Bend is probably intended to be the equivalent of
>> either a hack or sleight. But the Neutral Ground text does not say that:
>>
>> Change the text of target permanent by replacing all instances of one
>> color word or basic land type with another.
>>
>> The above sentence allows you, in my highly unoffical opinion, to replace
>> "white" by "swamp".

>Well, no. It should be obvious to any native English speaker that the card
>text should be read as

> Change the text of target permanent by replacing all instances of one
> color word or basic land type with another (color word or basic land
> type)
>--

NO NO NO NO NO

I get very tired of this sort of thing.
"Obvious to any native English speaker"?

How about an English speaker who doesn't play Magic?

Yes, your interpretation is correct, but it is not good enough
to be correct, you should be correct and FOR THE RIGHT
REASONS.

The English language says very little about the situation and
WHAT IT DOES SAY IS AGAINST YOU. As it stands its
ambiguous but tending towards lumping colour and land
together.

The reason its obvious what the card means is that:
(1) The game doesn't mix colours and lands EVER, anywhere else.
(2) You could completely mess up cards if you did this.
(3) The card is analogous to a combination of Sleight and Hack.

David

S Johnson

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) wrote:

>>SC swamp is a land type. Had that argument though.......

>SC Swamp is a land of land type "swamp". Snow-coveredness is not something you
>can choose when something says "Choose a land type". If you choose "swamp",
>then both non-SC swamps and SC swamps gain phasing.

But we can start it up again for YOU, Dave......

Now, I've forgotten: was it your opinion that Illusionary
Presence could NOT pick SC-swamp-walk as (so
the argument went) SC was only a qulaity?

Or did you say that IP _could_ pick a quality with
its land type as long as that quality was one that
nothing else except lands could have?

Equally daft if you ask me....

David

S Johnson

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

dle...@curly.cc.emory.edu (David Leader) wrote:

>Also, on Endbringer, I'd think that his pay 3 life is an upkeep cost;
>therefore, his ability can't be used till this cost is "dealt with"

The term "upkeep cost" has a specific (if little known) requirement:
There must be a payment and an alternative punishment.

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

dav...@msol.u-net.com writes:

>d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) wrote:
>>>Chariot of the Sun: Current toughness becomes 1.
>>Well... reportedly Mirage changes the rules a bit in the rulebook, and if
>>that's correct this reduces _base_ toughness to 1. [And ditto for Sworn
>>Defender ... and this also makes Island of Wak-Wak/Singing Tree work
>>differently unless Errataed.]
>

>They were errata-ed. Quite a while ago too.

No, no, I _mean_ that up through 4th Edition, Island-W-W and STree worked as
"Reduce .... creature's _current_ power to zero". On the grounds that everything
that affected or checked stats only did so to _current_ stats _unless_ it
was changing both power _and_ toughness to _specified numbers_. Changing
just one didn't qualify. Apparently in the 5E rules, changing just _one_ of
the two stats to a specified number qualifies for changing the base stat only;
this will change I-W-W and STree to "Reduce ... creature's _base_ power to
zero", which is a Fairly Big Change.

>>>Benevolent Unicorn: All spells, all creatures. It's not selective. Works on
>>>`unpreventable damage' like Lava Burst. Justice and Eye for an Eye will still
>>>`see' the original damage, not the reduced damage.
>
>>Eye for an Eye's back-slap will also be reduced by it. Justice's won't.
>

>Could you explain your opinion here?

Yes. Eye for an Eye is a spell; Benevolent Unicorn reduces damage from spells.
Justice in play is a permanent and not a creature; BU doesn't care about those.

Dave "on to part 2 in a moment" DeLaney

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

dav...@msol.u-net.com writes:
>"Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> wrote:

>>`power is halved' is not a `certain number'.
>
>It is.

It is _not_. Changing things to "a certain number" involves either a) the
number being _printed_ on the card [zero, 0/2, etc.] or b) something counting
up certain items and saying "change it to _that_ number" [Nightmare, Keldon
Warlord, etc.]. "Doubles" and "halves" aren't included; Berserk doesn't
affect only the creature's base stat, and neither does Catacomb Dragon.

>I mean do you think the Sentinel changes its base toughness?

Yes. It does. [Look at the card.]

>That is a formula too: "1 plus the power of target creature blocking
>or blocked by sentinel"

And, might I add, strictly speaking that card is setting the value of the *
sitting there, since there is a * sitting there instead of a number. [Ditto
for the Unlimited Keldon Warlord, which had X/X as the p/t.]

Dave

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

dav...@msol.u-net.com writes:
>>Phased-out stuff appears to go the same place Coffins or Oubliettes take
>>creatures, and to have the same "what wears off?" restrictions. Note that
>>nothing in Mirage lets you phase out an enchantment [except Copy Artifact],
>>though Spatial Bind lets you _prevent_ one from phasing out [which can make
>>things interesting if the enchantment's sitting on something that _does_
>>phase out].
>

>Not quite. Differences between phased and TC-ed:
>(1) don't return tapped
>(2) don't get summoning Sickness
>(3) re-set Cumulative Upkeep.
>Would be better to standardise (2) and (3).

(1) is specific to the Coffin. Note that it _doesn't_ happen to things coming
back from an Oubliette. It's basically Coffin card text adding to the "phase
this out and keep it phased out as long as Coffin is in play tapped".

(2) is apparently specific to phasing. Don't know _why_ they want stuff that
phases back in under the non-active player's control to not be summon-sick -
but that's what they said. So far.

(3): None of these re-set CU. Coffin doesn't, phasing out doesn't, Oubliette
doesn't.

>>Zombie Master's bonuses. The summon cards themselves aren't affected. Multiple
>>TSs give multiple Tombspawn; each TS' Tombspawn aren't affected by any other
>>TS leaving play.]
>

>Eh?? "During each upkeep, each player puts into play...."
>Both players, every turn ==> knee deep in Zombies.

My mistake. But all of these Zombies do go away at the end of each turn. And
come right back again on the next upkeep.

Dave

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) writes:
>Okay, here we go. As Mike noted, this is based on the _spoiler text wordings_;
>actual mileage of cards may vary considerably. Don't build decks based on the
>spoiler wordings.

And here's part 2: Blue and Gold [rah rah rah].

>A control-L:

>This is Version 1.1 Updated 9/16/96 4:00 pm of Neutral Ground's spoiler
>list being quoted from.

Ancestral Memories Sorcery UUU2 Rare
Look at the top seven cards of your library. Put two of those cards into your
hand and the rest into your graveyard.

["Ancestral Recall's back, and if you make us bring it back again it's getting
_more_ expensive so just stop bothering us, okay?"]

Azimaet Drake Summon Drake U2 Common
1/3. Flying. U: +1/+0 until end of turn. You cannot spend more than U in this
way each turn.

[Fire Drake is back ... and it's blue. {"Okay, I'll make that trade ... but you
_must_ accept a Fire Drake also."}]

Bay Falcon Summon Falcon U1 Common
1/1. Flying. Attacking does not cause ~ to tap.

[Zephyr Falcon's back, and _it's_ blue.]

Bazaar of Wonders Enchant World UU3 Rare
When ~ comes into play, remove all cards in all graveyards from the game.
Whenever a spell is played, counter it if a card with the same name is in play
or in any graveyard.

[Instant Highlander decks! Note that the countered spells go to {ta-da} the
graveyard, so you only get one chance at that Counterspell... unless you're
playing with Timetwisters or Diggers or Crypts...]

Cerulean Wyvern Summon Wyvern U4 Uncommon
3/3. Flying, protection from green.

[About _time_ something got PfGreen. It's naturally Hurricane-proof, Tropical-
Storm-proof, Radjan-Spirit-proof, etc.]

Cloak of Invisibility Enchant Creature U Common
Enchanted creature gains phasing and cannot be blocked except by Walls.

[Invisibility's back and it costs _less_.]

Daring Apprentice Summon Wizard UU1 Rare
1/1. T, Sacrifice ~: Counter target spell.

[Rare? Oh boy...]

Dissipate Interrupt UU1 Uncommon
Counter target spell. Remove that card from the game.

[Yes! That spell goes _away_. "I Dissipate your Lotus/Timetwister/whatever..."]

Dream Cache Sorcery U2 Common
Draw 3 cards. Choose two cards from your hand and put both on either the top or
the bottom of your library.

[Brainstorm-plus. Can't put one card on top and the other on the bottom.]

Dream Fighter Summon Soldier U2 Common
1/1. Whenever ~ blocks or is blocked by a creature, ~ and that creature phase
out.

[The phase-out happens when "is blocked by" is checked: end of declare-blockers.
If Dream Fighter is blocked by multiple blockers, all phase out; if it blocks
a band, the band all phases out. General Jarkeld and Sorrow's Path aren't
relevant, since Dream Fighter would already have to have blocked something else
first ... and would already be gone... Dazzling Beauty won't make it phase out.]

Energy Vortex Enchantment UU3 Rare
When you play ~, choose target opponent. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove
all energy counters from ~. During chosen opponent's upkeep, he or she pays 1
for each energy counter on ~, or it deals 3 damage to him or her. X: Put X
energy counters on ~. Use this ability only during your upkeep.

["I Power Sink your non-spell." You can put counters on more than once an
upkeep. The upkeep effect affects opponent once per their upkeep per Energy
Vortex.]

Ether Well Instant U3 Uncommon

Put target creature on top of owner's library. If that creature is red, you may

choose to put it on the bottom of owner's library instead.

[Unsummon-plus crossed with Digger. _Almost_ a remove-from-game.]

Flash Instant U1 Rare
Choose a creature card from your hand and put it into play as though it were
just played. Pay the creature's casting cost reduced by up to 2. If you cannot,
bury the creature.

[The latter option lets you just shrink your hand by 2 for 1U... or get a
particular creature into your graveyard for 1U... The casting cost only gets
colorless portions reduced; colored portions are still payable in full. Creature
cards are Summon cards plus Artifact Creature cards.]

Floodgate Summon Wall U3 Uncommon
0/5. 3U: If ~ gains flying, bury it. If ~ leaves play, it deals to each non-blue
creature without flying 1 damage for each two islands you control.

[Not sure this is typed in correctly. Is the ability meant to be used in
_response to_ making the Wall fly, or what? The last part is: if the Wall
goes away {or phases out, even}, count up your islands, divide by two and
round down, and deal that much to _each_ non-flying non-blue critter {not that
much divided among them}.]

Hakim, Loreweaver Summon Legend UU3 Rare
2/4. Flying. UU: Put target creature enchantment card from your graveyard on ~.
Treat that enchantment as though it were just played. Use this ability only
during your upkeep and only if there are no enchantments on ~. UU,T: Destroy
all enchantments on ~.

[Can put multiple enchantments on Hakim in the same stack; the "use this only
if" only restricts activation/"playing" of the ability. Skull of Orm is
back, and it's a blue legend...]

Harmattan Efreet Summon Efreet UU2 Uncommon
2/2. Flying. UU1: Target creature gains flying until end of turn.

[Does not tap to do this.]

Jolt Instant U2 Common
Tap or untap target artifact, creature or land. Draw a card at the beginning of

the next turn's upkeep.

[Twiddle is back, and it's a cantrip.]

Kukemssa Pirates Summon Pirates U3 Rare
2/2. If ~ attacks and is not blocked, you may choose to have it deal no damage
to defending player this turn. If you do, gain control of target artifact that
player controls.

[Scarwood Bandits are back, and they're a blue saboteur... Note that you keep
the artifact(s) no matter what happens to the Pirates.]

Meddle Interrupt U1 Uncommon
Target spell, which targets a single creature, targets another creature of your
choice instead. The new target must be legal.

[Not sure yet if this is "which targets a single creature only" or "which has,
among its targets, one and only one creature". Dunno if it can hit Fumarole,
for instance.]

Merfolk Seer Summon Merfolk U2 Common
2/2. U1: Draw a card. Use this ability only when ~ is put into the graveyard
from play and only once.

[Insidious Bookworms' good twin...]

Mind Bend Instant U Uncommon

Change the text of target permanent by replacing all instances of one color word
or basic land type with another.

[Replace land types with land types and colors with colors. Replacing a land
type with a color doesn't even make _sense_ in most places where you can do it.]

Mist Dragon Summon Dragon UU4 Rare
4/4. 0: Flying. 0: Loses Flying. UU3: Phases out.

[A Blinky Dragon. Can avoid anything affecting a flying creature, and anything
affecting a non-flying creature.]

Mystical Tutor Instant U Uncommon
Search your library for an instant, interrupt, mana source, or sorcery card and
reveal that card to all players. Shuffle your library and put the revealed card
back on top of it.

[An Instant - can do this in opponent's Discard phase, or in your upkeep, or
even in your draw phase just before you draw. _Or_ even in _response to_ a
casting that makes you draw... Ditto for the other two new Tutors. You have to
reveal the card so they know you actually got a card of the type you went
looking for.]

Political Trickery Sorcery U2 Rare
Choose target land you control and target land an opponent controls. Exchange
control of these lands.

[Fizzles if one or both change control, or stop being lands somehow, or leave
play, before it resolves.]

Polymorph Sorcery U3 Rare
Bury target creature. That creature's controller reveals cards from the top of
his or her library until a creature card is revealed and then puts that
creature into play under his or her control as though it were just played. The
player shuffles all other revealed cards into his or her library.

[Nothing happens to the revealed non-creature cards except being shuffled back
in. If the first one revealed is a creature... I'd say you don't shuffle, but
Tom'll probably say you do. If there's no creature cards left in that library,
you see the whole thing, then it gets shuffled, and nothing enters play.]

Power Sink Interrupt UX [+ -] Common
Target spell is countered unless its caster spends an additional X. Caster must
tap all lands and draw all mana to pay for the cost.

["Caster" is caster of target spell, _not_ caster of Power Sink.]

Prismatic Lace Instant U Rare
Target permanent becomes the color(s) of your choice. Costs to tap, maintain, or
use an ability of that permanent remain unchanged.

[Color change is permanent. I _believe_ it'll stick even when something phases
out ... but I don't know because this is no longer an Interrupt.]

Psychic Transfer Sorcery U4 Rare
Compare your life total with target player's life total. If the difference is 5
or less and you have at least 1 life, exchange life totals with that player.

[Mirror Universe is back, it's a blue Sorcery, and it can't gain or lose you
more than 5 life.]

Reality Ripple Instant U1 Common
Target artifact, creature, or land phases out.

[Can't hit enchantments, for some reason.]

Sandbar Crocodile Summon Crocodile U4 Common
6/5. Phasing.

["oh-oh-way-oh / they 'snap their teeth / 'on your 'ci-ga-rette..."]

Sapphire Charm Instant U Common
Choose one - Target player draws a card at the beginning of the next turn's
upkeep; or target creature an opponent controls phases out; or target creature
gains flying until end of turn.

[Pick a target only for the mode you'll use. If mode #2, and the creature
is stolen by _you_ before the Charm resolves, it fizzles... but if someone
_else_ in multiplayer steals it before the Charm resolves, it'll still be a
"creature opponent controls" and won't fizzle.]

Sea Scryer Summon Merfolk U1 Common
1/1. T: Add one colorless mana to your mana pool. Play this ability as a mana
source. 1,T: Add U to your mana pool. Play this ability as a mana source.

[Blue Standingstone Elves... Blue gets "fast mana"!!]

Shimmer Enchantment UU2 Rare
When you play ~, choose a land type. All lands of the chosen type gain phasing.

[Does _not_ say "a basic land type". Can hit Mazes of Ith, Urborgs, Tabernacles
of Pendrell Vale, etc. _Cannot_ hit "snow-covered swamps", "legendary lands",
"artifact lands", or "lands opponent controls". Can hit Bayous, either directly
or if "swamp" or "forest" is chosen.]

Suq'Ata Firewalker Summon Wizard UU1 Uncommon
0/1. ~ cannot be the target of red spells or effects. T: ~ deals 1 damage to
target creature or player.

[_Don't_ Bolt this Tim...]

Taniwha Summon Legend UU3 Rare
7/7. Phasing, Trample. At the beginning of your upkeep, all lands you control
phase out.

[Even-odd: you summon her, she phases out on opponent's untap, she phases in
on _your_ untap and your lands phase out on your upkeep - but you can tap
them as mana sources during beginning-of-upkeep before they phase out, if
you have upkeep costs to pay during upkeep..., she phases out on opponent's
untap, she _and_ your lands phase in on _your_ untap ... and your lands phase
out again at your upkeep's start, etc.]

Teferi's Curse Enchant Permanent U1 Common
Play only on an artifact or creature. Enchanted permanent gains phasing.

[Doesn't have to be one you control.]

Teferi's Imp Summon Imp U2 Rare
1/1. Flying, Phasing. When ~ phases out, choose and discard a card. When ~
phases in, draw a card.

[If you have no cards in hand when the Imp phases out, nothing bad happens.]

Tidal Wave Instant U2 Uncommon
Put a Wave token into play. Treat this token as a 5/5 blue creature that counts
as a Wall. Bury the token at end of any turn.

[Sploosh! <in-and-up, then down-and-out hand gesture> Schloooop...]

Vaporous Djinn Summon Djinn UU2 Uncommon
3/4. Flying. During your upkeep, pay UU or ~ phases out.

[If you don't pay, he stays Away until your next untap...]

Asmira, Holy Avenger Summon Legend GW2 Rare
2/3. At the end of each turn, put a +1/+1 counter on ~ for each creature put
into your graveyard from play that turn.

[She does not have to have been in play when the creature(s) died, just like
either Ghoul and the Osai Vultures. Wrath of God, then summon her...]

Benthic Djinn Summon Djinn BU2 Rare
5/3. Islandwalk. During your upkeep, lose 2 life.

[Juzam Djinn is back, and it's black-and-blue... and so will you be...]

Cadaverous Bloom Enchantment BG3 Rare
Choose a card in your hand and remove it from the game: Add BB or GG to your

mana pool. Play this ability as a mana source.

[Of course, you gotta get the Bloom into play before doing this, so it's not
gonna be a surprise. Choose whether you're adding BB or adding GG when you
announce the ability and choose-and-remove the card. Not that it matters
much because you'll get the mana right away...]

Circle of Despair Enchantment BW1 Rare
1, Sacrifice a creature; Prevent all damage to any creature or player from any
one source.

[With the 5E rules, the part about "if it damages you again later" is
irrelevant; it does _not_ have the "pay again if it damages you now more than
once" text, so will, for example, pick up all of a Reverberated-to-you
Hurricane's damage.]

Delirium Instant BR1 Uncommon
Play only on target opponent's turn. Tap target creature that player controls.
That creature deals to the player an amount of damage equal to its power. The
creature neither deals nor receives combat damage this turn.

[Doesn't have to target an attacking creature, doesn't have to be played during
the attack.]

Discordant Spirit Summon Spirit BR2 Rare
2/2. At end of target opponent's turn, put a +1/+1 counter on ~ for each 1
damage dealt to you this turn. At the end of your turn, remove all these
counters from ~.

[Only counts successfully dealt damage, like the other stuff with this
template.]

Emberwilde Caliph Summon Djinn UR2 Rare
4/4. Flying, Trample. ~ attacks each turn if able. For each damage ~
successfully deals, lose 1 life.

[Juggernaut is back and is multicolored and dangerous to you...]

Energy Bolt Sorcery RWX Rare
~ deals X damage to target player, or target player gains X life.

[A Potion of Fireballs?]

Frenetic Efreet Summon Efreet UR1 Rare
2/1. Flying. 0: Flip a coin; target opponent calls heads or tails while coin is
in the air. If the flip ends up in your favor, ~ phases out. Otherwise, bury ~.

[Basically, this Efreet has a 50-50 chance to Get Away From anything that
would kill it, and can't be successfully Swords to Plowshared... the flip
happens at resolution of the effect.]

Grim Feast Enchantment BG1 Rare
At the beginning of your upkeep, ~ deals 1 damage to you. Whenever a creature is
put into target opponent's graveyard from play, gain an amount of life equal to
that creature's toughness.

[Diamond Valley is back, crossed with Lifetap and Copper Tablet...]

Harbor Guardian Summon Guardian UW2 Uncommon
3/4. ~ can block creatures with flying. If ~ attacks, defending player may draw
a card.

[Draw is optional.]

Haunting Apparition Summon Ghost BU1 Uncommon
1+*/2. Flying. ~ has power equal to 1 plus the number of green creature cards in
target opponent's graveyard.

[Counts up green Summon cards only, unless opponent has a Sleighted Celestial
Dawn in play for some reason. Artifact Creature cards in a graveyard normally
can't be green.]

Kaervek's Purge Sorcery BRX Uncommon

Destroy target creature with casting cost equal to X. If that creature is put

into the graveyard in this way, ~ deals to the creature's controller an amount
of damage equal to the creature's power.

[If the creature regenerates, or leaves play before the Purge resolves, or
goes elsewhere for some reason, no damage. Power of the creature is checked
... hm. When the creature goes to the graveyard, looks like.]

Malignant Growth Enchantment UG3 Rare
Cumulative upkeep 1. During your upkeep, put a growth counter on ~. During
target opponent's draw phase, he or she draws an additional card for each
growth counter on ~. For each card that opponent draws in this way, ~ deals 1
damage to him or her.

[Underworld Dreams is back ... and it's blue and green? It's got CU, at least,
so won't be there forever... and only pings you for the extra cards it's
_making_ you draw, which is a relief.]

Phyrexian Purge Sorcery BR2 Rare
Pay 3 life per target: Destroy any number of target creatures.

[This _can_ be paid multiply - the card says so. Pay the BR2 only once.]

Prismatic Boon Instant UWX Uncommon
X target creatures gain protection from a single color of your choice until end
of the turn.

[Can't target things that already have PfBlue or PfWhite...]

Purgatory Enchantment BW2 Rare

Whenever a summon card is put into your graveyard from play, put that card face

up under ~. During your upkeep, you may pay 4 (mana) and 2 life to put any card
under ~ into play as though it were just played. If ~ leaves play, remove all

cards under it from the game.

[Looks like you can pay even if there's nothing under it - if you do, nothing
happens. Doesn't care who controlled the Summon card when it died, only that
it's going to your graveyard. Enduring Renewal is back and costly...]

Radiant Essence Summon Spirit GW1 Uncommon
2/3. As long as target opponent controls any black permanents, ~ gets +1/+2.

[Black tokens count towards this.]

Reflect Damage Instant RW3 Rare
Redirect all damage dealt by any one source to that source's controller.

[Not usable "retroactively", since it doesn't say it is. Reverberation's back,
and it's nastier...]

Reparations Enchantment UW1 Rare
Whenever target opponent successfully casts a spell that targets you or a
creature you control, you may draw a card.

[_This_ is _KEWL_. _I'm_ playing with four, as soon as I get them... "Bolt
me? Sure. Drain my Life? Sure... Swords to Plowshares? Lifelace? Terror?
Bring'em on.." Draw is optional. One draw per Reparations you have in play.]

Rock Basilisk Summon Basilisk GR4 Rare
4/5. Whenever ~ blocks or is blocked by a non-wall creature, destroy that

creature at end of combat.

[Works even if the Basilisk isn't around any more.]

Savage Twister Sorcery GRX Uncommon
~ deals X damage to each creature.

[Fireclasm! Hurriquake! Alarums and excursions!]

Sawback Manticore Summon Manticore GR3 Rare
2/4. 4: Flying until end of turn. 1: ~ deals 2 damage to target attacking or
blocking creature. Use this ability only once each turn and only if ~ is
attacking or blocking.

[Does not tap to do either of these things...]

Sealed Fate Sorcery BUX Uncommon
Look at the top X cards of target opponent's library. Remove one of those cards
from the game and put the rest back on top of that player's library in any
order.

[Mind Twist in advance with re-ordering. Just the thing for a Millstone deck.]

Spatial Binding Enchantment BU Uncommon
Pay 1 life: Target permanent cannot phase out until the beginning of your next
upkeep.

[This _can_ prevent an enchantment from phasing out, with that wording. I'd
say that if this happens, and the enchantment's on a permanent that _does_
phase out, the enchantment [and any Feedbacks or Power Leaks on it] get "left
behind" ... and go to their owner's graveyard(s)...]

Warping Wurm Summon Wurm UG2 Rare
1/1. Phasing. During your upkeep, pay UG2 or ~ phases out. When ~ phases in, put

a +1/+1 counter on it.

[The counters phase in and out with it - it's at least +1/+1 bigger each time
it comes back... An automatic Fungusaur!]

Wellspring Enchant Land GW1 Rare
When ~ comes into play, gain control of enchanted land. At the end of each of
your turns, lose control of enchanted land. At the beginning of each of your
turns, gain control of enchanted land.

[Dunno yet what happens, actually, if you cast this on your own land that
nobody else had had control of before.]

Windreaper Falcon Summon Falcon RG1 Uncommon
1/1. Flying, protection from blue.

[Also about time things had PfBlue. Can be Sleighted, or Mind Bent, but only
while being cast... cannot be Control Magicked, Puppet Mastered, Binding
Grasped, Psionic Blasted, Unsummoned, Boomeranged, Time Elementaled, etc.]

Zebra Unicorn Summon Unicorn GW2 Uncommon
2/2. For each 1 damage ~ deals, gain 1 life.

[El-Hajjaj is back and is green-and-white. Note there's no limitation as to
toughness of damaged creature or life total of damaged player.]

Dave

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

dav...@msol.u-net.com (David Johnson) wrote:
>Now consider the following:

>Structure of DP:
>(1) Automatic prevention or redirection effects
>(2) Voluntary prevention or redirection effects,
>using batches of effects.
>(3) Automatic delayed prevention or redirection
>(eg some Bodyguards).
>(4) End of prevention and redirection.
>Assigned damage is considered successfully dealt.
>Creatures still with lethal damage are destoyed.

>That way DP is very simple (in fact the above is the
>same as "Step A" used to be in 4th). All we have to
>do now is note that step (4) above will possibly trigger
>a DsP if any creatures were destroyed, or some TEs,
>if any of that succesfully dealt damage had a Side
>Effect.

>The timing of the DsP and TEs is now dealt with in
>exactly the same way as they would if triggered by
>ANY effect.

For example:
In play a Tawnos' Coffin with a (friendly) Kobold
inside it, a Keldon Warlord with a -1/-1 and a
friendly artifact creature.
Shatterstorm buries the TC and the artifact
creature, leaving the KW a 0/0 creature.

Is it,
(1) as a TE out pops the Kobold making the
KW 1/1 and saving it from death.
(2) DsP kills KW before Kobold appears.

(2), right? the DsP is quicker than the TE.

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

David DeLaney <d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu> wrote in article
<51tnd1$g...@gaia.ns.utk.edu>...

| dav...@msol.u-net.com writes:
| >>Phased-out stuff appears to go the same place Coffins or Oubliettes take
| >>creatures, and to have the same "what wears off?" restrictions. Note that
| >>nothing in Mirage lets you phase out an enchantment [except Copy
Artifact],
| >>though Spatial Bind lets you _prevent_ one from phasing out [which can
make
| >>things interesting if the enchantment's sitting on something that _does_
| >>phase out].
| >

| >Not quite. Differences between phased and TC-ed:
| >(1) don't return tapped
| >(2) don't get summoning Sickness
| >(3) re-set Cumulative Upkeep.
| >Would be better to standardise (2) and (3).
|
| (1) is specific to the Coffin. Note that it _doesn't_ happen to things
coming
| back from an Oubliette. It's basically Coffin card text adding to the "phase
| this out and keep it phased out as long as Coffin is in play tapped".

Actually, Oubliette also says `If Oubliette is removed, creature returns to
play tapped.'
But yes, this is extra text specific to these two cards that goes further than
normal Phasing.

|
| (2) is apparently specific to phasing. Don't know _why_ they want stuff that
| phases back in under the non-active player's control to not be summon-sick -
| but that's what they said. So far.

I think it's a consequence of when they phase back in. They phase in before
your untap phase begins. So they are in play at the start of your untap which
makes them unsick. They might be sick for that micro-millisecond, but then
sickness gets removed from them. I'd like to hear from Tom on this since he
said that Oubliette/TC basically phase a creature out and back in, just at
specific times (now and when the permanent untaps/leaves play) rather than at
normal times (start of turn).

George W. Bayles

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

Daniel M Gray (dg...@merle.acns.nwu.edu) wrote:
[snip]
: Probably true. Fact is, I stand by Tom's ruling; I really don't care

: what the justification is-- if he ruled tomorrow that all black spells
: resolve last in a spell stack, then that's the way we'd have to play.

Interesting. If he ruled that 2+2 was 5 you would re-write the math
texts and contrive "rationale" explanations of why it should played so.
No thank you.
[snip]

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

| Reality Ripple Instant U1 Common
| Target artifact, creature, or land phases out.
|
| [Can't hit enchantments, for some reason.]

Probably becasuing phasing out a specific local enchantment causes too many
headaches.

| Taniwha Summon Legend UU3 Rare
| 7/7. Phasing, Trample. At the beginning of your upkeep, all lands you
control
| phase out.
|
| [Even-odd: you summon her, she phases out on opponent's untap, she phases in
| on _your_ untap and your lands phase out on your upkeep - but you can tap
| them as mana sources during beginning-of-upkeep before they phase out, if
| you have upkeep costs to pay during upkeep..., she phases out on opponent's
| untap, she _and_ your lands phase in on _your_ untap ... and your lands
phase
| out again at your upkeep's start, etc.]

No...remember your stuff only phases on your turn. So:

Your Turn 1: You summon her.
Your Turn 2: She phases out.
Your Turn 3: She phases in, land phases out.
Your Turn 4: She phases out, land phases in.
Your Turn 5: She phases in, land phases out, etc.

| Circle of Despair Enchantment BW1 Rare
| 1, Sacrifice a creature; Prevent all damage to any creature or player from
any
| one source.
|
| [With the 5E rules, the part about "if it damages you again later" is
| irrelevant; it does _not_ have the "pay again if it damages you now more
than
| once" text, so will, for example, pick up all of a Reverberated-to-you
| Hurricane's damage.]

Well, Tom said that if a single spell or effect ended up damaging you more
than once as part of its resolution (eg, Mana Clash) that all of the damage
ended up in a single packet anyway; so even with the second sentence, it would
still scoop up all of the Hurricane's damage.

| Grim Feast Enchantment BG1 Rare
| At the beginning of your upkeep, ~ deals 1 damage to you. Whenever a
creature is
| put into target opponent's graveyard from play, gain an amount of life
equal to
| that creature's toughness.
|
| [Diamond Valley is back, crossed with Lifetap and Copper Tablet...]

Combine with Pestilence and the War Riders. Yumm!

| Phyrexian Purge Sorcery BR2 Rare
| Pay 3 life per target: Destroy any number of target creatures.
|
| [This _can_ be paid multiply - the card says so. Pay the BR2 only once.]

Well, you do the effect once; you just get to pick an arbitrary number of
targets. You can't destroy some creatures now, and destroy some others later.

| Spatial Binding Enchantment BU Uncommon
| Pay 1 life: Target permanent cannot phase out until the beginning of your
next
| upkeep.
|
| [This _can_ prevent an enchantment from phasing out, with that wording. I'd
| say that if this happens, and the enchantment's on a permanent that _does_
| phase out, the enchantment [and any Feedbacks or Power Leaks on it] get
"left
| behind" ... and go to their owner's graveyard(s)...]

I'm not sure if an enchantment (w/o phasing) on top of a permanent that is
phasing out is really phasing out on it's own (to be prevented by this) or if
the enchantment is going with the enchanted permanent because `that's where
it's going'. Notice that a local enchantment returns when it's enchantee
does, not during the untap of the enchantment's controller...

| Wellspring Enchant Land GW1 Rare
| When ~ comes into play, gain control of enchanted land. At the end of each
of
| your turns, lose control of enchanted land. At the beginning of each of
your
| turns, gain control of enchanted land.
|
| [Dunno yet what happens, actually, if you cast this on your own land that
| nobody else had had control of before.]

The `lose control' means that the `gain control' effect ends and it goes back
to whomever controlled it before you cast Wellspring.

Note that Wellsprings `gain control' will always `float' to be the most recent
effect since it is being reapplied every turn -- stealing it with Conquer lets
you have the land for exactly one turn.

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) wrote:

>Dream Fighter Summon Soldier U2 Common
>1/1. Whenever ~ blocks or is blocked by a creature, ~ and that creature phase
> out.
>[The phase-out happens when "is blocked by" is checked: end of declare-blockers.
>If Dream Fighter is blocked by multiple blockers, all phase out; if it blocks
>a band, the band all phases out. General Jarkeld and Sorrow's Path aren't
>relevant, since Dream Fighter would already have to have blocked something else
>first ... and would already be gone... Dazzling Beauty won't make it phase out.]

There is that card that prevents things phasing out of course...
I disagree about all the blockers phasing out, but that's in another
thread.

>Polymorph Sorcery U3 Rare
>Bury target creature. That creature's controller reveals cards from the top of
> his or her library until a creature card is revealed and then puts that
> creature into play under his or her control as though it were just played. The
> player shuffles all other revealed cards into his or her library.

>[Nothing happens to the revealed non-creature cards except being shuffled back
>in. If the first one revealed is a creature... I'd say you don't shuffle, but
>Tom'll probably say you do. If there's no creature cards left in that library,
>you see the whole thing, then it gets shuffled, and nothing enters play.]

Dominian mages still seems a little unsure about the number zero.....

>Psychic Transfer Sorcery U4 Rare
>Compare your life total with target player's life total. If the difference is 5
> or less and you have at least 1 life, exchange life totals with that player.

>[Mirror Universe is back, it's a blue Sorcery, and it can't gain or lose you
>more than 5 life.]

Ten life, Dave. Ten.

>Cadaverous Bloom Enchantment BG3 Rare
>Choose a card in your hand and remove it from the game: Add BB or GG to your
> mana pool. Play this ability as a mana source.

>[Of course, you gotta get the Bloom into play before doing this, so it's not
>gonna be a surprise. Choose whether you're adding BB or adding GG when you
>announce the ability and choose-and-remove the card. Not that it matters
>much because you'll get the mana right away...]

With Zur's Weirding. Every card a potential Dark Ritual (or whatever)
even AFTER the other guy pays two life to plug it.....

>Circle of Despair Enchantment BW1 Rare
>1, Sacrifice a creature; Prevent all damage to any creature or player from any
> one source.

>[With the 5E rules, the part about "if it damages you again later" is
>irrelevant; it does _not_ have the "pay again if it damages you now more than
>once" text, so will, for example, pick up all of a Reverberated-to-you
>Hurricane's damage.]

Eh?? The "If a source deals damage to you more than once in
a turn, you may pay 1 each time to prevent the damage" on COPs
was no more than a not-so-helpful reminder anyway. It didn't DO
anything. 5th changes nothing there. What makes you think CoD
will carry on picking up damage from the same source latter on?
If I protect myself from my opponent's Lord of Tresserhorn do I
need never pay again in the rest of the game according to this
idea of yours?

>Grim Feast Enchantment BG1 Rare
>At the beginning of your upkeep, ~ deals 1 damage to you. Whenever a creature is
> put into target opponent's graveyard from play, gain an amount of life equal to
> that creature's toughness.

>[Diamond Valley is back, crossed with Lifetap and Copper Tablet...]

Either that or it's something entirely new............

>Reflect Damage Instant RW3 Rare
>Redirect all damage dealt by any one source to that source's controller.

>[Not usable "retroactively", since it doesn't say it is. Reverberation's back,
>and it's nastier...]

Let's see now. Used at the same time as side effects? Like Suffocation
ought to be? or is this going to be messed around with too?

>Spatial Binding Enchantment BU Uncommon
>Pay 1 life: Target permanent cannot phase out until the beginning of your next
> upkeep.

>[This _can_ prevent an enchantment from phasing out, with that wording. I'd
>say that if this happens, and the enchantment's on a permanent that _does_
>phase out, the enchantment [and any Feedbacks or Power Leaks on it] get "left
>behind" ... and go to their owner's graveyard(s)...]

Pending sorting out whether the enchantments that go are
really phasing at all. They don't behave as if they were.

Incedentally, if you are right, then another posibility is that the
enchantment stays (and is buried as invalid) but that the thing
enchanting IT (Feedback / whatever) phases out with the
creature.

David

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) wrote:

>(1) is specific to the Coffin. Note that it _doesn't_ happen to things coming
>back from an Oubliette. It's basically Coffin card text adding to the "phase
>this out and keep it phased out as long as Coffin is in play tapped".

Suggest you take another look at Oubliette, Dave!

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) wrote:

>>They were errata-ed. Quite a while ago too.

>No, no, I _mean_ that up through 4th Edition, Island-W-W and STree worked as
>"Reduce .... creature's _current_ power to zero". On the grounds that everything
>that affected or checked stats only did so to _current_ stats _unless_ it
>was changing both power _and_ toughness to _specified numbers_. Changing
>just one didn't qualify. Apparently in the 5E rules, changing just _one_ of
>the two stats to a specified number qualifies for changing the base stat only;
>this will change I-W-W and STree to "Reduce ... creature's _base_ power to
>zero", which is a Fairly Big Change.

I've always played lthe way the 5th edition rules make explicit.
The other way just doesn't make sense. Singing Tree - and you
really ought to know this - says get -X/-0 wher X=power of creature.
It is not a recent change. How have you been playing Sentinel?
Changing its overall toughness?!? Weird.

David

as I think Darth Vader once said,
"hhhrrrrrr..... hhrrrr.... now _I_ am the master"

Daniel M Gray

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

gba...@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (George W. Bayles) writes:

>Daniel M Gray (dg...@merle.acns.nwu.edu) wrote:
>[snip]

>: Probably true. Fact is, I stand by Tom's ruling; I really don't care

>: what the justification is-- if he ruled tomorrow that all black spells
>: resolve last in a spell stack, then that's the way we'd have to play.

>Interesting. If he ruled that 2+2 was 5 you would re-write the math

>texts and contrive "rationale" explanations of why it should played so.
>No thank you.
>[snip]

If he told me that 2+2 was 5 regardless, yes, I'd disagree. If he
decided that 2+2 was 5 for purposes of adding during a game of Magic, that's
what we'd have to play by. I was just attempting to express my feeling that
all the nitpicking of the rules that seems to be going on here is silly. It
is Tom's job to make the rules, and the only point of the rules is to ensure
that we can play the game(and they really matter more in tournament settings
than in casual play-- I know when I first started playing, if we came across
something that made no sense, we made up a solution). The rules of Magic are
not the key to eternal life or anything so critically important that we have
to ensure they are 100% illogic-free and completely consistant throughout.
As long as I can make enough sense of them to make correct rulings while
judging a tournament, I really don't care exactly how TE's and CE's differ
or in what ways something in Tawnos's Coffin or something with Phasing are
alike or different.
If something one sees in the rules leads to a ridiculous
situation(like the discussion in another thread about killing something
using a mana source that is in the process of being declared the target of a
spell being announced), there's no way I'm gonna let someone get away with
an obviously unfair move in a tournament setting, regardless of how legal
that move may appear on paper. THis kind of thing is what Tom refers to as
"rules sleazing," and the 5E rules are meant to eliminate as much of this
pseudo-cheating as possible. The rules of Magic are a structure for playing
a game that is sometimes worth money; as long as the people running/judging
those contests can make sense of what's going on, all sorts of corner cases
that, while they may exist within the rules, never occur in actual play,
don't really matter.
Dan Gray

Cenneth Lööf

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

> It is.

Oh Yea? Is it 1, 2 or maybe 3?

James Buster

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

In article <51tu0j$h...@gaia.ns.utk.edu>,

David DeLaney <d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu> wrote:
>Warping Wurm Summon Wurm UG2 Rare
>1/1. Phasing. During your upkeep, pay UG2 or ~ phases out. When ~ phases in, put
> a +1/+1 counter on it.
>
>[The counters phase in and out with it - it's at least +1/+1 bigger each time
>it comes back... An automatic Fungusaur!]

Note that it *doesn't* say "When ~ phases in because you didn't pay ~s upkeep".
If you have some way of making Warping Wurm phase in more often than
each of its controller's untap phases, you should be able to give it more
counters.
--
Planet Bog -- pools of toxic chemicals bubble under a choking atomsphere of
poisonous gases... but aside from that, it's not much like Earth.
-- Calvin

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96

"Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> wrote:

>I think it's a consequence of when they phase back in. They phase in before
>your untap phase begins. So they are in play at the start of your untap which
>makes them unsick. They might be sick for that micro-millisecond, but then
>sickness gets removed from them. I'd like to hear from Tom on this since he
>said that Oubliette/TC basically phase a creature out and back in, just at
>specific times (now and when the permanent untaps/leaves play) rather than at
>normal times (start of turn).

He preceeded to make the two exceptions I noted above:
summoning sickness and coming into play tapped.

By the way, if they still define SS the same then the beginning of
untap is not when "did I begin the turn on side?" is checked. It
is checked ***big suprise*** at the beginning of the turn. The SS
part of phasing is ***required*** or the creatures would never get
to do anything.

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

dav...@msol.u-net.com writes:
>d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) wrote:

>>Psychic Transfer Sorcery U4 Rare
>>Compare your life total with target player's life total. If the difference is 5
>> or less and you have at least 1 life, exchange life totals with that player.
>
>>[Mirror Universe is back, it's a blue Sorcery, and it can't gain or lose you
>>more than 5 life.]
>
>Ten life, Dave. Ten.

Five life, David. Five. [Yes, that got me at first too. But look: the difference
has to be five or less. So if I've got 7 and you've got twelve ... we can
exchange ... and now I've got: 12, and you've got: 7. That's as far as we can
push it with this spell. So the most you can gain or lose is five.]

>>Circle of Despair Enchantment BW1 Rare
>>1, Sacrifice a creature; Prevent all damage to any creature or player from any
>> one source.
>
>>[With the 5E rules, the part about "if it damages you again later" is
>>irrelevant; it does _not_ have the "pay again if it damages you now more than
>>once" text, so will, for example, pick up all of a Reverberated-to-you
>>Hurricane's damage.]
>
>Eh?? The "If a source deals damage to you more than once in
>a turn, you may pay 1 each time to prevent the damage" on COPs
>was no more than a not-so-helpful reminder anyway. It didn't DO
>anything. 5th changes nothing there. What makes you think CoD
>will carry on picking up damage from the same source latter on?

No no no. All the damage a Reverberation redirects to you hits you at once.
But it hits in many many "packets". CoPs care about "packets"; this Circle,
along with Nova Pentacle/Seasoned Tactician/etc., appears not to.

>If I protect myself from my opponent's Lord of Tresserhorn do I
>need never pay again in the rest of the game according to this
>idea of yours?

That's not what I said. See: "the part about "if it damages you again later"
is irrelevant". That's because if it damages you again later, that'll make
a different damage-prevention step...

>>Spatial Binding Enchantment BU Uncommon
>>Pay 1 life: Target permanent cannot phase out until the beginning of your next
>> upkeep.
>
>>[This _can_ prevent an enchantment from phasing out, with that wording. I'd
>>say that if this happens, and the enchantment's on a permanent that _does_
>>phase out, the enchantment [and any Feedbacks or Power Leaks on it] get "left
>>behind" ... and go to their owner's graveyard(s)...]
>
>Pending sorting out whether the enchantments that go are
>really phasing at all. They don't behave as if they were.

They get turned over along with the card; they're not in play; what do you
_want_, Richard Garfield himself to come down, tap you on the shoulder, and
say "David, enchantments on a permanent phase out along with the permanent"?

Enchantments on a permanent that phases out also phase out. Tom said this to
you _explicitly_; the only thing is you seem to have this Idee' Fixee' that
enchantments can't leave play in that manner for some reason.

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

"Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> writes:
:| Taniwha Summon Legend UU3 Rare

:| 7/7. Phasing, Trample. At the beginning of your upkeep, all lands you
:control
:| phase out.
:|
:| [Even-odd: you summon her, she phases out on opponent's untap, she phases in
:| on _your_ untap and your lands phase out on your upkeep - but you can tap
:| them as mana sources during beginning-of-upkeep before they phase out, if
:| you have upkeep costs to pay during upkeep..., she phases out on opponent's
:| untap, she _and_ your lands phase in on _your_ untap ... and your lands
:phase
:| out again at your upkeep's start, etc.]
:
:No...remember your stuff only phases on your turn. So:

My bad again. Finally got a copy [from you] on the actual quotes from the
rulebook, and stuff you control _does_ phase out only on your untap, not
on anyone's untap. So she and your lands take turns being there after this.

:Your Turn 1: You summon her.

:Your Turn 2: She phases out.
:Your Turn 3: She phases in, land phases out.
:Your Turn 4: She phases out, land phases in.
:Your Turn 5: She phases in, land phases out, etc.

like so, yes.

:| Circle of Despair Enchantment BW1 Rare

:| 1, Sacrifice a creature; Prevent all damage to any creature or player from
:any
:| one source.
:|
:| [With the 5E rules, the part about "if it damages you again later" is
:| irrelevant; it does _not_ have the "pay again if it damages you now more
:than
:| once" text, so will, for example, pick up all of a Reverberated-to-you
:| Hurricane's damage.]
:
:Well, Tom said that if a single spell or effect ended up damaging you more
:than once as part of its resolution (eg, Mana Clash) that all of the damage
:ended up in a single packet anyway; so even with the second sentence, it would
:still scoop up all of the Hurricane's damage.

But redirecting the damage afterwards _isn't_ "part of the resolution"; it's
part of damage-prevention instead. I haven't heard from him yet whether this
also "melds" into one big packet; it didn't under 4E rules.

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

dav...@msol.u-net.com writes:
>For example:
>In play a Tawnos' Coffin with a (friendly) Kobold
>inside it, a Keldon Warlord with a -1/-1 and a
>friendly artifact creature.
>Shatterstorm buries the TC and the artifact
>creature, leaving the KW a 0/0 creature.
>
>Is it,
>(1) as a TE out pops the Kobold making the
>KW 1/1 and saving it from death.
>(2) DsP kills KW before Kobold appears.
>
>(2), right? the DsP is quicker than the TE.

Yes. The Coffin has to actually _leave play_ before its triggered
"Hey, bring back my inhabitant!" effect goes off. The Coffin and the
artifact creature will be buried both at once [Shatterstorm buries things]
during the Shatterstorm's resolution. This will make the KW 0/0 _during_
that resolution. Thus, according to the changes-post:
" A creature that is
destroyed, buried, or killed due to toughness reduction is put into its
owner's graveyard immediately, during the resolution of the effect that
kills it. Regeneration effects can be used at that time as a specialized
effect played during resolution."
The KW will also die, and get a futile chance to regenerate, before the
triggered effect of the Coffined creature returning can happen. The Coffined
creature won't return _during_ the resolution of Shatterstorm; the KW +will+
die then, because its toughness will become 0 and this now doesn't wait for
a damage-prevention step before killing. [Note: A damaged creature whose
toughness gets lowered below its damage now also dies immediately, without
a d-p step, but with a chance to regenerate.]

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

dav...@msol.u-net.com writes:
>d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) wrote:

>>(1) is specific to the Coffin. Note that it _doesn't_ happen to things coming
>>back from an Oubliette. It's basically Coffin card text adding to the "phase
>>this out and keep it phased out as long as Coffin is in play tapped".
>
>Suggest you take another look at Oubliette, Dave!

Yeah, another case of "forgot to read the card". Okay, stuff comes out
of both a Coffin and Oubliette tapped and summon-sick ... but when phasing
in, retains former tap state and is _not_ summon-sick. The "tap" part, though,
is card text on the Coffin and Oubliette... and not apparently a general part
of phasing.

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) writes:

Followup thoughts:

>"Play this as a sorcery": It's still a fast effect, but has the timing of
>a sorcery and the when-announcing restrictions of one. You can Rust an
>Amulet of Unmaking, for instance.

Note that Icys and such _can_ effectively prevent these from being used,
if you tap the thing during upkeep or draw, or in response to some other
casting.

>"You may choose to play as an instant; if you do, bury it at end of turn.":
>It's still an enchantment, but you can play it as an instant-speed fast
>effect spell instead of as an Enchantment spell being cast. Is still an
>Enchantment spell - only the timing's different. Playing it as an instant
>doesn't let you avoid Avoid Fate or Ring of Immortal's effects.

Tom sez that moving the played-as-an-instant enchantment with Crown or EA
causes it to forget it was so played, and to stick around. Consistent with
the rest of "as if just cast"...

>3/3. At the end of your turn Crystal Golem phases out.
>
>[Slightly before everything else would, at start of opponent's turn. Don't
>see a use for this yet.]

Bleah. Under the _actual_ phasing rules, Crystal Golem would normally
phase out during your next untap phase; this means it phases _in_ on
each of your untaps, instead of alternately phasing in and out.

>Ersatz Gnomes Artifact Creature 3 Uncommon
>1/1. T: Target spell is colorless. Play this ability as an interrupt. T: Target
> permanent is colorless until end of turn.
>
>[Colorless spells being cast produce _permanently_ colorless permanents.]

This does _not_ turn target permanent into an artifact, or turn target spell
into an artifact spell; damage from either is _not_ damage from an artifact
source. It just wipes out their color(s).

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

And here's part 3: Green, Land. [(tm) Denmark]

>A control-L:

>This is Version 1.1 Updated 9/16/96 4:00 pm of Neutral Ground's spoiler
>list being quoted from.

GREEN

Afiya Grove Enchantment G1 Rare
~ comes into play with three +1/+1 counters on it. During your upkeep, put one
of these counters on target creature. If ~ has none of these counters on it,
bury it.

[The target creature can be different each time. Effectively will only bury
itself during your upkeep.]

Barbed Foliage Enchantment GG2 Uncommon
Whenever a creature attacks you, it loses flanking until end of turn. Whenever
a creature without flying attacks you, ~ deals 1 damage to it.

[If the creature later gains flying, the damage doesn't go away, of course.]

Brushwagg Summon Brushwagg GG1 Rare
3/2. If ~ blocks or is blocked, it gets -2/+2 until end of turn.

[If it manages to block or get blocked more than once, it gets the stat change
again; can happen with General Jarkeld or Sorrow's Path.]

Canopy Dragon Summon Dragon GG4 Rare
4/4. Trample. G1: Flying and loses trample until end of turn.

[Can use the ability repeatedly; this will give it flying several times, which
is no more Interesting than flying once.]

Cycle of Life Enchantment GG1 Rare
Return ~ to owner's hand: Target creature you summoned this turn is 0/1 until
the beginning of your next upkeep. At the beginning of your next upkeep, put a
+1/+1 counter on that creature.

[Can do this during opponent's discard phase. It's a fast effect. If the
creature's not still in play at start of your next upkeep [if it phased out
or got killed, etc.], no counter appears on it.]

Decomposition Enchant Creature G1 Uncommon
Play only on a black creature. Enchanted creature gains "Cumulative upkeep - 1
life." If enchanted creature is put into the graveyard, its controller loses 2
life.

[The CU is on the creature, and is paid by the creature's controller, not
Decomposition's.]

Early Harvest Instant GG1 Rare
Target player untaps all basic lands he or she controls.

[_Not_ an interrupt or mana source - beware. Can't help you get mana for
an interrupt to an already-announced casting.]

Femeref Archers Summon Archers G2 Uncommon
2/2. T: ~ deals 4 damage to target attacking creature with flying.

[If the target stops attacking or stops flying or stops being a creature
before the effect resolves, no damage is dealt.]

Foratog Summon Atog G2 Uncommon
1/2. G, Sacrifice a forest: +2/+2 until end of turn.

[Does not tap to do so, just like the original Atog. Atog's back and it's
green! There's not one Atog per color, contrary to rumor.]

Gibbering Hyenas Summon Hyenas G2 Common
3/2. ~ cannot block black creatures.

[Cannot be switched to block them, either. Can block them only by blocking
a different attacker banded with one.]

Hall of Gemstone Enchant World GG1 Rare
During each player's upkeep, that player chooses a color. Until end of turn,
each mana-producing land produces mana of the chosen color instead of its
normal color.

[Lands will produce their normal mana during untap and during upkeep before
this upkeep effect is resolved. They may, depending on the timing of
Cleanup, also produce their normal mana at "at end of turn" time.]

Jolrael's Centaur Summon Centaur GG1 Common
2/2. Flanking. ~ cannot be the target of spells or effects.

[See: Autumn Willow, Deadly Insects. Can have enchantments _moved onto_ it.
Is affected just fine by non-targetted damage or effects.]

Jungle Patrol Summon Soldiers G3 Rare
3/2. 1G,T: Put a Wood token into play. Treat this token as a 0/1 green creature
that counts as a Wall. Sacrifice a Wood token: Add R to your mana pool. Play

this ability as a mana source.

[The Sac-a-token-to-get-R ability is the Soldiers', not the Wood token's. Wood
doesn't catch fire by itself.]

Jungle Wurm Summon Wurm GG3 Common
5/5. For each creature assigned to block it beyond the first, ~ gets -1/-1 until
end of turn.

[A larval Johtull Worm. Dies immediately if 6 or more creatures are directly
assigned to block it. Doesn't care about blockers assigned to other members
of a band it attacks in.]

Karoo Meerkat Summon Meerkat G1 Uncommon
2/1. Protection from blue.

[Can be targetted by blue interrupts while being cast, of course.]

Locust Swarm Summon Swarm G3 Uncommon
1/1. Flying. G: Regenerate. G: Untap ~. Use this ability only once each turn.

[Once each turn, not just once on your own turn.]

Lure of Prey Instant GG2 Rare
Play only if an opponent successfully cast a summon spell this turn. Put a green
summon card from your hand into play as though it were just played.

[Eureka is back, and it's ... green? Can be cast in response to the summon
spell in question if you want; this can get _your_ Summon Legend into play
before _theirs_ appears, for instance.]

Maro Summon Nature Spirit GG2 Rare
*/*. ~ has power and toughness each equal to the number of cards in your hand.

[If a spell or effect gives you 0 cards during its resolution, Maro will die
during that resolution. Wheel of Fortune or Timetwister will kill it. I think.]

Mindbender Spores Summon Wall G2 Rare
0/1. Flying. Whenever ~ blocks any creature, put four fungus counters on that
creature. During its controller's untap phase, remove a fungus counter from the
creature. As long as the creature has any fungus counters on it, it does not
untap during its controller's untap phase.

[The ability is on the counters, not on the Mindbender Spores card only. They
keep being removed and keep the permanent from untapping [even if it's no
longer a creature] even if the MS itself goes away.]

Mtenda Lion Summon Lion G Common
2/1. If ~ attacks, defending player may pay U to have it deal no combat damage
this turn.

[Savannah Lions are back, and they're Green, and scared of ... Blue?]

Natural Balance Sorcery GG2 Rare
Each player controlling six or more lands sacrifices enough lands to reduce his
or her land total to five. Each player controlling four or fewer lands may
search his or her library for enough basic land to bring his or her land total
to five and put those lands into play. Those players shuffle their libraries
afterwards.

[Balance is back and it's green. And set permanently to "five" and "lands". If
you're looking for basic lands, and don't find enough in your library to bring
you to five, put all you do find into play. Doesn't count against the lay-one-
land limit, apparently. Thus I'd say that the fetchlands below don't either.
Perhaps the Mirage rulebook clarifies bringing a land into play by a fast
effect or spell versus laying one directly into play from hand...]

Nettletooth Djinn Summon Djinn G3 Uncommon
4/4. During your upkeep, ~ deals 1 damage to you.

[Juzam Djinn is back, again, and it's Green.]

Preferred Selection GG2 Enchantment Rare
At the beginning of your draw phase, look at the top two cards of your library
and choose one. Put that card on the bottom of your library, or sacrifice
Preferred Selection and pay 2GG to draw the card.

[Sylvan Library's good twin... Note that you _must_ do this each draw phase...
and that unless you shuffle during draw phase, or have an Island Sanctuary,
you _will_ draw the card you didn't choose.]

Quirion Elves Summon Elves G1 Common
1/1. When you play ~, choose a color. T: Add one mana of the chosen color to
your mana pool. Play this ability as a mana source. T: Add G to your mana pool.

Play this ability as a mana source.

[Cannot be usefully Sleighted or Mind Bent.]

Rampant Growth Sorcery G1 Common
Search your library for a basic land card and put it into play, tapped. Shuffle
your library afterwards.

[See Natural Balance for one-land-per-turn limit comment. If you find no basic
land in your library, shuffle it anyway.]

Roots of Life Enchantment GG1 Uncommon
When you play ~, choose islands or swamps. Whenever a land of the chosen type
that target opponent controls becomes tapped, gain 1 life.

[Can be Hacked or Mind Bent ... but not usefully, since the choice occurs
on announcement, before even interrupts are usable.]

Sabertooth Cobra Summon Cobra G2 Common
2/2. If ~ damages a player, he or she gets a poison counter. During that
player's next upkeep, he or she gets another poison counter unless he or she
pays 2 before then to prevent this effect. If any player has ten or more poison
counters, he or she loses the game.

[Nafs Asp has a deadly cousin... You can pay any time during your upkeep,
as long as you have not yet said already that you're dealing with the get-
another-poison-counter effect.]

Sandstorm Instant G [+] Common
~ deals 1 damage to each attacking creature.

[Does nothing at all when cast outside the attack or during a null attack.]

Seedling Charm Instant G Common
Choose one: Return target creature enchantment to owner's hand; or regenerate
target green creature; or target creature gains trample until end of turn.

[Choose a target specific to the mode you choose to use.]

Seeds of Innocence Sorcery GG1 Rare
Bury all artifacts. Each artifact's controller gains an amount of life equal to
that artifact's casting cost.

[Shatterstorm is back, and green...]

Serene Heart Instant G1 Common
Destroy all local enchantments.

[This means "all enchantments sitting on/enchanting another permanent".]

Stalking Tiger Summon Tiger G3 Common
3/3. ~ cannot be blocked by more than one creature.

[Luring it won't make any difference.]

Superior Numbers Sorcery GG Uncommon
~ deals to target creature 1 damage for each creature you control in excess of
the number of creatures target opponent controls.

[Count up your creatures and opponent's; if you have more, count how _many_
more, then deal that much damage to the target creature in one lump. Count when
the spell resolves.]

Tranquil Domain Instant G1 Common
Destroy all global enchantments.

[This means "all Enchantment and Enchant World cards in play", basically.]

Tropical Storm Sorcery GX Uncommon
~ deals X damage to each creature with flying and 1 damage to each blue
creature.

[Flying blue creatures take X+1 damage as one lump.]

Uktabi Faerie Summon Faerie G1 Common
1/1. Flying. 3G, Sacrifice ~: Destroy target artifact.

[Cannot use the power more than once without getting the Faeries back into
play.]

Uktabi Wildcats Summon Wildcats G4 Rare
*/*. ~ has power and toughness each equal to the number of forests you control.
G, Sacrifice a forest: Regenerate.

[Tracks the number continuously, like Nightmare.]

Unseen Walker Summon Dryad G1 Uncommon
1/1. Forestwalk. GG1: Target creature gains forestwalk until end of turn.

[Does not tap to do this. Can target a creature that already has forestwalk;
this does nothing Interesting.]

Waiting in the Woods Sorcery GG1 Rare
For each untapped forest he or she controls, each player puts a Cat token into
play under his or her control. Treat these tokens as 1/1 green creatures.

[Everyone counts their untapped forests when the spell resolves, and gets that
many Cat tokens. Their creature type is Cat.]

Wall of Roots Summon Wall G1 Common
0/5. Put a -0/-1 counter on ~: Add G to your mana pool. Play this ability as a
mana source. Use this ability only once each turn.

[Can use it on opponent's turn and/or yours. Since this is a mana source _and_
since you get only one use per turn, you can't do this several times "in
response to each other" to get several G and overkill the Wall.]

Worldly Tutor Instant G Uncommon
Search your library for a creature card and reveal that card to all players.

Shuffle your library and put the revealed card back on top of it.

[An Instant; can be used just before you would otherwise draw. Can be used
on opponent's turn. If your library turns out to contain no creature cards,
shuffle it anyway.]

LAND

Bad River Land Uncommon
~ comes into play tapped. T, Sacrifice ~: Search your library for an island or
swamp card. Put that land into play. Shuffle your library afterwards.

Flood Plain Land Uncommon
~ comes into play tapped. T, Sacrifice ~: Search your library for a plains or
island card. Put that land into play. Shuffle your library afterwards.

Grasslands Land Uncommon
~ comes into play tapped. T, Sacrifice ~: Search your library for a forest or
plains card. Put that land into play. Shuffle your library afterwards.

Mountain Valley Land Uncommon
~ comes into play tapped. T, Sacrifice ~: Search your library for a mountain or
forest. Put that land into play and shuffle your library.

Rocky Tar Pit Land Uncommon
~ comes into play tapped. T, Sacrifice ~: search your library for a swamp or
mountain. Put that land into play. Shuffle your library afterwards.

[These five do not put the land in question into play _tapped_, so it's
basically a one-turn delay. As above, apparently castings that put land into
play, in 5E, generically don't count against your laying-land-from-hand limit.]

Crystal Vein Land Uncommon
T: Add one colorless mana to your mana pool. T, Sacrifice ~: Add two colorless

mana to your mana pool.

[Oh, great. Fallen Empires is back, and colorless...]

Teferi's Isle Legendary Land Rare
Phasing. Comes into play tapped. T: Add UU to your mana pool.

[Does _not_ return tapped when it phases in, unless it was tapped when it left.
It'll untap just after phasing in anyway. You can have two around, one
out of phase with the other.]

Clint

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

Date: 19 Sep 96 21:28:17 GMT
dav...@msol.u-net.com (David Johnson) writes:
>>Well, if he did he was wrong IMO. Elvish Healer looks modal.
>>They changed there minds about Icequake too - realised it was modal.
>
> Agreed that Elvish Healer looks modal, but I have stuck in my brain
>that Tom said it wasn't(for some reason). I could just be losing it, of
>course. Anyone else remember this one?

This what you looking for?

---Forwarded Message---
From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie)
Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules
Subject: Re: Ten minor cases
Date: 5 Sep 1996 00:33:00 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz

David <gi...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
(Who else?)

<snip>

>Elvish Healer:
> Ok so this is modal. What happens if a green creature changes
> colour between announcement and res. of the heal ability?

The effect is unaffected, just like the effect of Gangrenous Zombies
doesn't care whether you gain or lose snow-covered swamps before
resolution.

<snip>

*************** Wilson Yuen * iy...@shiva.hunter.cuny.edu ****************
****** Wilson Yuen * 39 Bowery St #611 * New York * NY * 10002-6700 ******

Jay Lorch

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

David DeLaney <d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu> wrote:
>Enchantments on a permanent that phases out also phase out. Tom said this to
>you _explicitly_; the only thing is you seem to have this Idee' Fixee' that
>enchantments can't leave play in that manner for some reason.

So, let me get this straight. Suppose my Sandbar Crocodile is
enchanted with my opponent's Enfeeblement. On my turn, the Crocodile
phases out. At the beginning of my opponent's next upkeep phase, you're
saying Enfeeblement phases in (it's a permanent he controls, after all),
finds no target, and is buried? This seems non-intuitive, at least to
me.

______________Jay_Lor...@cs.berkeley.edu______________
"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters
will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks
to the Internet, we know this is not true." -- Robert Wilensky, ILP 1996
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jay Lorch

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

In article <5206vn$b...@gaia.ns.utk.edu>,

David DeLaney <d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu> wrote:
>Worldly Tutor Instant G Uncommon
>Search your library for a creature card and reveal that card to all players.
> Shuffle your library and put the revealed card back on top of it.
>
>[An Instant; can be used just before you would otherwise draw. Can be used
>on opponent's turn. If your library turns out to contain no creature cards,
>shuffle it anyway.]

Is drawing a fast effect, something like:

0: draw a card. You must use this ability exactly once during your draw
phase.

So, could you "announce" your draw, respond with Worldly Tutor, so as
to have the Tutor resolve immediately before your draw? This would be
important if, for instance, your opponent had a ready Soldier of
Fortune.

George W. Bayles

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

Daniel M Gray (dg...@merle.acns.nwu.edu) wrote:

: gba...@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (George W. Bayles) writes:
[snip]
: >Interesting. If he ruled that 2+2 was 5 you would re-write the math

: >texts and contrive "rationale" explanations of why it should played so.
: >No thank you.
: >[snip]

[snip]
: ... If he

: decided that 2+2 was 5 for purposes of adding during a game of Magic, that's

: what we'd have to play by. ...

If you ruled that way in tourny I doubt you'd get many people coming back to
your next tourny. (assuming you survived)

I was just attempting to express my feeling that

If you tried to rule that way in casual play at the gaming store or club
they'd likely decide you were mentally deficient and disregard anything
further you'd say (reasonable or not).
[snip]
: ... The rules of Magic are

: not the key to eternal life or anything so critically important that we have
: to ensure they are 100% illogic-free and completely consistant throughout.

True but so what? WotC pays people to make up the rules and this newsgroup
has a legitimate role in providing feedback about their logical errors and
in-consistencies. It's doubtful that without that feedback they would have
realized a need to make the changes they did. A logically consistent set of
rules won't save the world - but, that's no reason not to fix the problems
we know about.

[snip]
: If something one sees in the rules leads to a ridiculous

: situation(like the discussion in another thread about killing something
: using a mana source that is in the process of being declared the target of a
: spell being announced), there's no way I'm gonna let someone get away with
: an obviously unfair move in a tournament setting, regardless of how legal

: that move may appear on paper. ...

You contradict yourself. You'd rule that 2+2=5 but if someone spots a legal
tactic that leads to an advantage you won't allow it. On what grounds?
There are a LOT of manuevers in magic that seem "obviously unfair" to
certain people. So, you'd substitute your judgement for the rules in a
case of "obviously unfair" but not to say 2+2=4.

: THis kind of thing is what Tom refers to as

: "rules sleazing," and the 5E rules are meant to eliminate as much of this

: pseudo-cheating as possible. ...

Knowing the rules and taking advantage of them is just part of the game,
not cheating or psuedo-cheating.

[snip]

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

| Lure of Prey Instant GG2 Rare
| Play only if an opponent successfully cast a summon spell this turn. Put a
green
| summon card from your hand into play as though it were just played.
|
| [Eureka is back, and it's ... green? Can be cast in response to the summon
| spell in question if you want; this can get _your_ Summon Legend into play
| before _theirs_ appears, for instance.]

Cute...

|
| Maro Summon Nature Spirit GG2 Rare
| */*. ~ has power and toughness each equal to the number of cards in your
hand.
|
| [If a spell or effect gives you 0 cards during its resolution, Maro will die
| during that resolution. Wheel of Fortune or Timetwister will kill it. I
think.]

Is 0 toughness really checked in the middle of a resolution? I thought all
such checks were made only at the end of an effect (so WoF, TT, and Winds of
Change can't kill Maro).

| Natural Balance Sorcery GG2 Rare
| Each player controlling six or more lands sacrifices enough lands to reduce
his
| or her land total to five. Each player controlling four or fewer lands may
| search his or her library for enough basic land to bring his or her land
total
| to five and put those lands into play. Those players shuffle their
libraries
| afterwards.
|
| [Balance is back and it's green. And set permanently to "five" and "lands".
If
| you're looking for basic lands, and don't find enough in your library to
bring
| you to five, put all you do find into play. Doesn't count against the
lay-one-

But only if you want to search your library. You can choose not to fetch land
if you have less than 5.

| Sandstorm Instant G [+] Common
| ~ deals 1 damage to each attacking creature.
|
| [Does nothing at all when cast outside the attack or during a null attack.]

Incidentally, what to these [+]'s and [-]'s that you keep putting on the cards
mean? It can't mean that this Sandstorm is better than the already in print
Sandstorm because both Sandstorms are identical (even both Common).

| Seeds of Innocence Sorcery GG1 Rare
| Bury all artifacts. Each artifact's controller gains an amount of life equal
to
| that artifact's casting cost.
|
| [Shatterstorm is back, and green...]

Crumble with a vengence.

| Crystal Vein Land Uncommon
| T: Add one colorless mana to your mana pool. T, Sacrifice ~: Add two
colorless
| mana to your mana pool.
|
| [Oh, great. Fallen Empires is back, and colorless...]

At least it doesn't come into play tapped like the other FE lands. This might
be better for artifact or burn decks (than the other FE lands)that need lots
of mana, but doesn't need lots of colored mana.

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

| >Worldly Tutor Instant G Uncommon
| >Search your library for a creature card and reveal that card to all
players.
| > Shuffle your library and put the revealed card back on top of it.
| >
| >[An Instant; can be used just before you would otherwise draw. Can be used
| >on opponent's turn. If your library turns out to contain no creature cards,
| >shuffle it anyway.]
|

| Is drawing a fast effect, something like:
|
| 0: draw a card. You must use this ability exactly once during your draw
| phase.
|
| So, could you "announce" your draw, respond with Worldly Tutor, so as
| to have the Tutor resolve immediately before your draw? This would be
| important if, for instance, your opponent had a ready Soldier of
| Fortune.

Yes, and yes. [Except that drawing a card doesn't have an activation cost,
cannot be countered, blah blah, etc :-) ]

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

Daniel Blum <to...@MCS.COM> wrote in article <520vst$6...@Mercury.mcs.com>...
| Am I correct in assuming that a Stalking Tiger with an Imposing Visage on
| it (or with a Goblin War Drums in play) is unblockable? Or, to borrow a
| phrase, "the Invisible Juggernaut is back, and it's green and red." :)

Yes. [Unless you stick it in a band with a creature that can be blocked].

Daniel Blum

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

Am I correct in assuming that a Stalking Tiger with an Imposing Visage on
it (or with a Goblin War Drums in play) is unblockable? Or, to borrow a

phrase, "the Invisible Juggernaut is back, and it's green and red." :)
--
_______________________________________________________________________
Dan Blum to...@mcs.net
"I wouldn't have believed it myself if I hadn't just made it up."
_______________________________________________________________________

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) wrote:

>>(2), right? the DsP is quicker than the TE.

>Yes. The Coffin has to actually _leave play_ before its triggered
>"Hey, bring back my inhabitant!" effect goes off. The Coffin and the
>artifact creature will be buried both at once [Shatterstorm buries things]
>during the Shatterstorm's resolution. This will make the KW 0/0 _during_
>that resolution. Thus, according to the changes-post:
>" A creature that is
>destroyed, buried, or killed due to toughness reduction is put into its
>owner's graveyard immediately, during the resolution of the effect that
>kills it. Regeneration effects can be used at that time as a specialized
>effect played during resolution."
>The KW will also die, and get a futile chance to regenerate, before the
>triggered effect of the Coffined creature returning can happen. The Coffined
>creature won't return _during_ the resolution of Shatterstorm; the KW +will+
>die then, because its toughness will become 0 and this now doesn't wait for
>a damage-prevention step before killing. [Note: A damaged creature whose
>toughness gets lowered below its damage now also dies immediately, without
>a d-p step, but with a chance to regenerate.]

So far, as they say, so good. What about the rest?

If a triggered DsP beats a triggered TE to the punch then
with respect to the DP step won't a creature that has taken
lethal damage within DP trigger its DsP before side effects
kick in? (both things reacting to the "succesful lethal damage"
event at the end of DP).

This is bad because it means the Mirage Disintegrate is
as messed up as all the others were!

David

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

lo...@djinn.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Jay Lorch) wrote:
>Is drawing a fast effect, something like:

>0: draw a card. You must use this ability exactly once during your draw
>phase.

Yes.
More like: "Draw a card during your draw phase."

All 'phase-specific effects" are played like instants:
Untap
Upkeep costs and effects
Draw
Discard

>So, could you "announce" your draw, respond with Worldly Tutor, so as
>to have the Tutor resolve immediately before your draw? This would be
>important if, for instance, your opponent had a ready Soldier of
>Fortune.

Yes.

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) wrote:
>>"You may choose to play as an instant; if you do, bury it at end of turn.":
>>It's still an enchantment, but you can play it as an instant-speed fast
>>effect spell instead of as an Enchantment spell being cast. Is still an
>>Enchantment spell - only the timing's different. Playing it as an instant
>>doesn't let you avoid Avoid Fate or Ring of Immortal's effects.

>Tom sez that moving the played-as-an-instant enchantment with Crown or EA
>causes it to forget it was so played, and to stick around. Consistent with
>the rest of "as if just cast"...

More sort of not.
If I have a spell which says "bury target enchantment at end of turn"
and I hit an enchantment with it, do you think moving it with EA is
going to help?

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

lo...@djinn.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Jay Lorch) wrote:

>David DeLaney <d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu> wrote:
>>Enchantments on a permanent that phases out also phase out. Tom said this to
>>you _explicitly_; the only thing is you seem to have this Idee' Fixee' that
>>enchantments can't leave play in that manner for some reason.

>So, let me get this straight. Suppose my Sandbar Crocodile is
>enchanted with my opponent's Enfeeblement. On my turn, the Crocodile
>phases out. At the beginning of my opponent's next upkeep phase, you're
>saying Enfeeblement phases in (it's a permanent he controls, after all),
>finds no target, and is buried? This seems non-intuitive, at least to
>me.

Richard Garfield, come on down!

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/21/96

d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) wrote:

>Cycle of Life Enchantment GG1 Rare
>Return ~ to owner's hand: Target creature you summoned this turn is 0/1 until
> the beginning of your next upkeep. At the beginning of your next upkeep, put a
> +1/+1 counter on that creature.
>[Can do this during opponent's discard phase. It's a fast effect. If the
>creature's not still in play at start of your next upkeep [if it phased out
>or got killed, etc.], no counter appears on it.]

If you can manage to summon it during HER turn.......

>Foratog Summon Atog G2 Uncommon
>1/2. G, Sacrifice a forest: +2/+2 until end of turn.
>[Does not tap to do so, just like the original Atog. Atog's back and it's
>green! There's not one Atog per color, contrary to rumor.]

So do you pronounce that "For-atog" or "Fora-tog" ?

>Jungle Patrol Summon Soldiers G3 Rare
>3/2. 1G,T: Put a Wood token into play. Treat this token as a 0/1 green creature
> that counts as a Wall. Sacrifice a Wood token: Add R to your mana pool. Play
> this ability as a mana source.
>[The Sac-a-token-to-get-R ability is the Soldiers', not the Wood token's. Wood
>doesn't catch fire by itself.]

Is that the only reason for your decision? I've written a 100+ line
article suggesting the reverse you might want to look at!
Of course seeing the card WOOD help. If there's a line
break you are right. Otherwise not.

>Serene Heart Instant G1 Common
>Destroy all local enchantments.
>[This means "all enchantments sitting on/enchanting another permanent".]

What about Takklemaggot?

>[These five do not put the land in question into play _tapped_, so it's
>basically a one-turn delay. As above, apparently castings that put land into
>play, in 5E, generically don't count against your laying-land-from-hand limit.]

Did this use to be a rule? Not in any file I've read.
Closest thing is that Fastbond used to deal damage if you played
a land by Eureka. Well... for all you play-by-the-rulings-till-I-die
folks, I suppose it still does!

David

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96

"Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> wrote:

>Is 0 toughness really checked in the middle of a resolution? I thought all
>such checks were made only at the end of an effect (so WoF, TT, and Winds of
>Change can't kill Maro).

This has been true for a while, although the general rules
for CEs have been a bit schizophrenic.........

Chris Mattern

unread,

Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96

George W. Bayles (gba...@ringer.cs.utsa.edu) wrote:

: True but so what? WotC pays people to make up the rules and this newsgroup

: has a legitimate role in providing feedback about their logical errors and
: in-consistencies. It's doubtful that without that feedback they would have

And here we have the problem, I think. George, this newsgroup does *not*
have a legitimate role in providing feedback to WotC about what the rules
should be; this newsgroup is for answering questions about what the rules
*are.* Feedback to WotC does indeed have its place, and a valuable one,
but it's not here. Such discussions should be taken to rec.games.
trading-cards.magic.misc and e-mail to WotC.

Chris Mattern

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96

lo...@djinn.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Jay Lorch) writes:
>Is drawing a fast effect, something like:

Yes.

>0: draw a card. You must use this ability exactly once during your draw
>phase.

Well, it has no activation cost at all, so it's actually wordable as "During
your draw phase, draw a card". Stuff without cost that has to be done at
a certain time can only be done once then [Doppleganger shifts, etc.].

>So, could you "announce" your draw, respond with Worldly Tutor, so as
>to have the Tutor resolve immediately before your draw?

Why, yes. And since it's your turn, your opponent could only interfere
with interrupts ... and since your draw's not a spell or fast effect from
a permanent, there's currently no interrupts at all that could target it. So
opponent would be out of luck.

>This would be
>important if, for instance, your opponent had a ready Soldier of Fortune.

Or Millstone...

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96

lo...@djinn.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Jay Lorch) writes:
>David DeLaney <d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu> wrote:
>>Enchantments on a permanent that phases out also phase out. Tom said this to
>>you _explicitly_; the only thing is you seem to have this Idee' Fixee' that
>>enchantments can't leave play in that manner for some reason.
>
>So, let me get this straight. Suppose my Sandbar Crocodile is
>enchanted with my opponent's Enfeeblement. On my turn, the Crocodile
>phases out. At the beginning of my opponent's next upkeep phase, you're
>saying Enfeeblement phases in (it's a permanent he controls, after all),

No. Tom also said [fairly explicitly] that permanents "keep" enchantments
on them, in the same manner a Coffined or Oublietted permanent does. [What
that means for a dissolved token has yet to be exactly established ... but I
digress.] The enchantments phase in and out with whatever they're on.
Strictly speaking, the line "A permanent that's phased out will phase in
(that is, return to play), at the beginning of its controller's next untap
phase." should end "next untap phase, unless it's a local enchantment"
from what Tom's said. Local enchantments phase in-n-out with whatever they're
local to ... unless prevented from doing so.

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96

to...@mcs.net writes:
>Am I correct in assuming that a Stalking Tiger with an Imposing Visage on
>it (or with a Goblin War Drums in play) is unblockable?

Yep. Can't be blocked by only one creature, can only be blocked by one creature.
Answer: cannot be blocked.

>Or, to borrow a
>phrase, "the Invisible Juggernaut is back, and it's green and red." :)

Ooo, wow, colorsssss..

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96

"Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> writes:
:Is 0 toughness really checked in the middle of a resolution? I thought all

:such checks were made only at the end of an effect (so WoF, TT, and Winds of
:Change can't kill Maro).

_Triggered_ destruction or burial waits until after an effect resolves [rulings
files]. I am fairly sure, though, that since "toughness less than damage"
now does _not_ need a d-p step in 5E, that it'll kill something [with a chance
for regeneration, of course] in the middle of an effect's resolving... just
as if the effect itself lowered the toughness. This is one visible difference
between continuously-tracking and triggered effects...

:| Sandstorm Instant G [+] Common

:| ~ deals 1 damage to each attacking creature.
:|
:| [Does nothing at all when cast outside the attack or during a null attack.]

:
:Incidentally, what to these [+]'s and [-]'s that you keep putting on the cards

:mean? It can't mean that this Sandstorm is better than the already in print
:Sandstorm because both Sandstorms are identical (even both Common).

[+] means "Reprinted from the main set". [-] means "Reprinted from Ice Age".
Guess what [+ -] means...

David DeLaney

unread,

Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96

Part 4 and last: Red & White [the Wars of the Roses].

>A control-L:

Agility Enchant Creature R1 Common
Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 and gains flanking.

[If it already has flanking, this can give it "flanking twice", under the 5E
way of dealing with it. This, I _think_, makes it give blocking non-Flankers
-2/-2... and multiples of Agility on a creature would act the same way.]

Aleatory Instant R1 Uncommon
Play only after defense is chosen. Flip a coin; target opponent calls heads or
tails while coin is in the air. If the flip ends up in your favor, target
creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn. Draw a card at the beginning of the next
turn's upkeep.

["2: Draw a card" plus "Red instead of colorless: creature has a 50-50 chance of
gaining +1/+1".]

Barreling Attack Instant RR2 Rare
Target creature gains trample until end of turn. That creature gets +1/+1 until
end of turn for each creature that blocks it.

[The stat gain is when the Instant resolves; if you cast the instant before
blocking, it will, I think, give +0/+0 because nothing's currently blocking it.
It would say "Until end of turn, that creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn..."
to work the other way.]

Blind Fury Instant RR2 Uncommon
All creatures lose trample until end of turn. Double all combat damage assigned
to creatures this turn.

[Berserk's Evil Twin. I like it. Anti-Stampede, too...]

Builder's Bane Sorcery RXX Common
Destroy X target artifacts. For each artifact put into the graveyard in this
way, ~ deals 1 damage to that artifact's controller.

[Regenerated artifacts, or ones which leave play before BB resolves, don't
cause damage. Detonate's Good Twin.]

Burning Palm Efreet Summon Efreet RR2 Uncommon
2/2. RR1: ~ deals 2 damage to target creature with flying and that creature
loses flying until end of turn.

[Does not tap to do this. Brothers of Vertigo, Unite!]

Chaos Charm Instant R Common
Choose one: Target creature is unaffected by summoning sickness this turn; or ~
deals 1 damage to target creature; or destroy target wall.

[Choose the target type for the mode you use. Would be virtually useless
otherwise.]

Chaosphere Enchant World R2 Rare
Creatures with flying cannot block creatures without flying. Creatures without
flying can block creatures with flying.

[Simply "inverts" the normal rules. Does not give or take away flying from
any creature. With this and Island Sanctuary and Undertow in play, any of your
creatures can block the creatures that _can_ attack... unless something takes
flying away from them after they attack...]

Cinder Cloud Instant RR3 Uncommon
Destroy target creature. If a white creature is put into the graveyard in this
way, ~ deals to that creature's controller an amount of damage equal to the
creature's power.

[Again, regenerating the creature stops the damage. Power is checked at the
time the creature hits the graveyard.]

Consuming Ferocity Enchant Creature R1 Uncommon
Play only on a non-Wall creature. Enchanted creature gets +1/+0. During your
upkeep, put a +1/+0 counter on enchanted creature. At the end of any upkeep, if
that creature has three of these counters on it, bury the creature and it deals
to its controller an amount of damage equal to its power.

[If the creature's not in play at the end of an upkeep, it can't be buried-and-
smack-you then. The counters and the enchantment will phase in and out with
a phasing enchanted creature. Can be interesting combined with Animate Artifact
and Crown of the Ages/EA and Xenic Poltergeist...]

Crimson Hellkite Summon Dragon RRR6 Rare
6/6. Flying. X,T: ~ deals X damage to target creature. Spend only red mana in
this way.

[Celestial Dawn can't affect the red-mana requirement. Too bad. Sleight or
Mind Bend can though.]

Crimson Roc Summon Roc R4 Uncommon
2/2. Flying. If ~ blocks any creature without flying, ~ gets +1/+0 and gains
first strike until end of turn.

[The gains don't go away if the attacker gains flying after the block. Gets the
gains even if switched to the non-flying attacker with GeneralJ or Sorrow's
Path.]

Dwarven Miner Summon Dwarf R1 Uncommon
1/2. 2R,T: Destroy target nonbasic land.

[Hey, one of these each for blue and green and white and maybe multilands
will have enough disadvantage to be reprinted...]

Ekundu Cyclops Summon Cyclops R3 Common
3/4. If any creature you control attacks, ~ also attacks if able.

[The Juggernaut is back, and is Red and anti-Errant...]

Emberwilde Djinn Summon Djinn RR2 Rare
5/4. Flying. During each player's upkeep, he or she may pay RR or 2 life to gain
control of ~.

[A twisted Red version of the Juzam. No line about "does not suffer from
summoning sickness".]

Final Fortune Instant RR Rare
Take another turn after this one. You lose the game at the end of that turn.

[The only ways _not_ to lose are to win first ... or to skip the extra turn
to untap your Time Vault with...]

Flame Elemental Summon Elemental RR2 Uncommon
3/2. R,T, Sacrifice ~: ~ deals an amount of damage equal to its power to target
creature.

[Power checked at time of sacrifice. Checking it at time of resolution would
be silly.]

Goblin Elite Infantry Summon Goblins R1 Common
2/2. If ~ blocks or is blocked, it gets -1/-1 until end of turn.

[If blocked multiple times with GeneralJ or Sorrow's Path switches, can die
from it.]

Goblin Scouts Sorcery RR3 Uncommon
Put three Goblin Scout tokens into play. Treat these tokens as 1/1 red creatures
with mountainwalk that count as Goblins.

[Not a creature card. Just creates creatures. Their name is Goblin Scout;
their type is Goblin Scout _and_ Goblin.]

Goblin Soothsayer Summon Goblin R Uncommon
1/1. R,T, Sacrifice a Goblin: All red creatures get +1/+1 until end of turn.

[Gauntlet of Goblins... Whee.]

Goblin Tinkerer Summon Goblin R1 Common
1/2. R,T: Destroy target artifact. That artifact deals an amount of damage equal
to its casting cost to ~.

[Give it Stonehands first. Will kill Moxen and Orbs happily, or Vises or Ivory
Towers...]

Hammer of Bogarden Sorcery RR1 Rare
~ deals 3 damage to target creature or player. RRR2: Return ~ to your hand. Use
this ability only during your upkeep, and only if ~ is in your graveyard.

[_Expensive_ as heck ... but you can get it back later in the game if your
Bolt deck isn't killing him fast enough for some reason. I particularly recall
one game I played against someone who'd left their Chain Lightnings out of the
deck who said, late in the game, "I concede - I don't have enough direct damage
left in the deck to kill you" - I was playing a lifegain deck...]

Hivis of the Scale Summon Legend RR3 Rare
3/4. You may choose not to untap ~ during your untap phase. T: Gain control of
target Dragon. If ~ becomes untapped or you lose control of ~, lose control of
that Dragon.

[If Hivis leaves play, you've lost control of it. Phased-out things aren't
under anyone's control, though they remember who controlled them last, and
can figure out who'll control them when they reappear. Ditto other "if you
lose control of ~, lose control of stolen loot" cards.]

Illicit Auction Sorcery RR3 Rare
Choose target creature. Each player may bid life for control of that creature.
You begin the bidding with a high bid of 0. Proceeding in turn order, each
player may top the high bid. The auction ends when the high bid stands. The
high bidder loses an amount of life equal to the high bid and gains control of
the creature.

["Top the high bid" means bidding an integral amount of life, higher than the
last-bid bid. Pretty clearly written. Players other than the high bidder
lose no life from the auction. There can be no ties in a given auction; Forking
this gives you two separate auctions.]

Kaervek's Torch Sorcery RX Common
Interrupts that target ~ each cost an additional 2 to play. ~ deals X damage to
target creature or player.

["Force of Will _this_, buddy."]

Pyric Salamander Summon Salamander R1 Common
1/1. R: +1/+0 until end of turn. Bury ~ at end of turn.

[Bury it only if you use the ability. This should probably be clear on the
card itself from the words' arrangement.]

Raging Spirit Summon Spirit R3 Common
3/3. 2: ~ is colorless until end of turn.

[This doesn't make it an artifact, and doesn't make damage from it artifact
damage. If -laced, the -lace color will reappear once the fast effect wears
off.]

Reckless Embermage Summon Wizard R3 Rare
2/2. R1: ~ deals 1 damage to target creature or player and 1 damage to itself.

[Does not tap to do this. Can go on a spree in the same stack, though it
will die shortly after the stack starts resolving.]

Reign of Chaos Sorcery RR2 Uncommon
Destroy target plains and target white creature, or destroy target island and
target blue creature.

[Can't be cast without both targets. Can't choose a plains-and-blue-creature
or island-and-white-creature or plains-and-island or white-creature-and-blue-
creature. Sleighting or Hacking it will cause it to fail unless hitting an
appropriately multicolored permanent [Sleight] or multiland [Hack]. Having
one target become illegal before resolution will still get the other one
destroyed, like Ashes to Ashes/Dust to Dust/Fumarole.]

Searing Spear Askari Summon Knight R2 Common
2/2. Flanking. R1: ~ cannot be blocked by only one creature this turn.

[The ability is the same as Goblin War Drums' or Imposing Visage's; neither
of these helps the SSA any further.]

Sirocco Instant R1 Uncommon
Target player reveals his or her hand to all players. For each blue interrupt
card that player holds, he or she pays 4 life or discards that card.

["Trollllling for cooooounterspells... ha! _Found_ one!"]

Spitting Earth Sorcery R1 Common
~ deals to target creature an amount of damage equal to the number of mountains
you control.

[Mountains counted at resolution. Can be usefully Hacked.]

Telim'Tor's Edict Instant R Rare
Remove from the game target permanent you own or control. Draw a card at the
beginning of the next turn's upkeep.

[Telim'Tor owned a Despotic Scepter, I see.]

Torrent of Lava Sorcery RRX Rare
~ deals X damage to each creature without flying. Each creature gains "T:
Prevent 1 damage to this creature from ~."

[Can only prevent 1 damage per creature, and only to that creature, and
only _from_ that particular Torrent of Lava [it would say "from any Torrent
of Lava" if they wanted the last to be otherwise]. The ability's permanent,
but meaningless after the damage-prevention step for that ToL.]

Volcanic Geyser Instant RRX Uncommon
~ deals X damage to target creature or player.

[Disintegrate got downgraded...]

Zirilan of the Claw Summon Legend RR3 Rare
3/4. RR1,T: Search your library for a Dragon card and put it into play as
though it were just played. Shuffle your library afterwards. That creature is
unaffected by summoning sickness. Remove the creature from the game at the end
of any turn.

[No Dragon card in your library? Then just shuffle the library and continue.
Can go and find Teeka's Dragon, since it counts as a Dragon ... but not a Dragon
Engine, since it doesn't.]

Afterlife Instant W2 Uncommon
Bury target creature and put an Essence Token into play under control of that
creature's controller. Treat this token as a 1/1 white creature with flying.

[Adding insult to Terror...]

Alarum Instant W1 Common
Untap target non-attacking creature. That creature gets +1/+3 until end of turn.

[Plus Abbey Matron, plus Diamond Valley... WWW1 for 12 life!!]

Auspicious Ancestor Summon Ancestor W3 Rare
2/3. If ~ is put into the graveyard from play, gain 3 life. 1: Gain 1 life. Use
this ability only when a white spell is successfully cast and only once for
each such spell.

[Yes, it swallowed an Ivory Cup and an Onulet-and-a-half. The "Use this..."
is, I believe, only on the second ability - seeing the card should make this
plain.]

Benevolent Unicorn Summon Unicorn W1 Common
1/2. Whenever a spell assigns damage to a creature or player, that damage is
reduced by 1.

[Multiple Unicorns, multiple reductions. Hits damage _before_ the damage-
prevention step. Can't touch damage done by permanents or non-spell stuff.
Can't touch loss of or payment of life at all, of course.]

Blinding Light Sorcery W2 Uncommon
Tap all non-white creatures.

[Can be usefully Sleighted. Non-targetted, so checks non-whiteness at
resolution time only.]

Celestial Dawn Enchantment WW1 Rare
All non-land cards you own that are not in play are white. All non-land
permanents you control are white. All lands you control are plains. All colored
mana symbols in all costs on all of these cards and permanents are W.

[Whoo. Inquisition, Flashfires, or Anarchy will sting. Only mana symbols
in _costs_ are affected. I believe this doesn't overwrite the other abilities
of a land ... it would say "basic plains" if it did that {compare Conversion},
because a basic land _only_ has the tap-for-mana ability. It makes them
"multilands" instead. I believe. Only mana symbols in actual costs, like
upkeep costs, untap costs, activation costs, extra costs, etc., are affected
[Derelor, Drain Life, Island Fish Jasconius, Thrull Wizard, etc. - but not
Drought, which is talking _about_ mana symbols in costs].]

Dazzling Beauty Instant W2 Common
Play only when defense is chosen. Target unblocked creature is considered
blocked. Draw a card at the beginning of the next turn's upkeep.

[No creature is actually assigned to block the attacker. Will stop use
of "if not blocked, do this" abilities. Will trigger "if blocked, do this"
abilities, if relevant... but not "If something's assigned to block, do this";
Rampage and Flanking are the latter type.]

Divine Retribution Instant W1 Rare
For each attacking creature ~ deals 1 damage to target attacking creature.

[Count up the attacking creatures. Deal that much damage in a lump to one
of them, targetting it.]

Enlightened Tutor Instant W Uncommon
Search your library for an artifact or enchantment card and reveal that card to

all players. Shuffle your library and put the revealed card back on top of it.

[See the other Tutors for notes. Can get Artifact Creature, Artifact, Mono
Artifact, Poly Artifact, Continuous Artifact, Enchantment, Enchant World,
or Enchant <foo> cards.]

Ethereal Champion Summon Avatar WWW2 Rare
3/4. Pay 1 life: Prevent 1 damage to ~.

[Personal Incarnation's little brudder. Worse ability, though, because you
can't prevent the payment of life.]

Favorable Destiny Enchant Creature W1 Uncommon
As long as enchanted creature's controller controls at least one other creature,
enchanted creature cannot be the target of spells or effects. As long as
enchanted creature is white, it gets +1/+2.

[Enchanting two of your creatures with this prevents both of them from being
targetted by spells or effects... which stops the "kill the other creature
with a Terror" gambit.]

Femeref Knight Summon Knight W2 Common
2/2. Flanking. W: Attacking does not cause ~ to tap this turn.

[Can use the ability multiple times. Has no extra effect if you do.]

Illumination Interrupt WW Uncommon
Counter target artifact or enchantment spell. That spell's caster gains an
amount of life equal to the spell's casting cost.

[Interrupt-speed life gain. Whee! Can use it on your own spells - different
strategies needed than for Arcane Denial - turns any enchantment or artifact
into an Alabaster Potion for the casting cost.]

Ivory Charm Instant W Common
Choose one: all creatures get -2/-0 until end of turn; or prevent 1 damage to
any creature or player; or tap target creature.

[Targets only in the last two modes. Second mode targets 1 particular damage.]

Jabari's Influence Instant WW3 Rare
Play only after combat. Gain control of target non-artifact, nonblack creature
that attacked you this turn and put a -1/-0 counter on it.

[Creatures that were retroactively removed from combat can't be targetted. Can't
be played until after the entire attack's over.]

Mangara's Blessing Instant W2 Uncommon
Gain 5 life. If a spell or effect by an opponent causes you to discard ~, gain 2
life and return ~ from your graveyard to your hand at end of turn.

[Anti-discard, pure and simple. Won't come back to hand if the discard's
redirected to library with Library of Leng ... because it won't be in the
graveyard. Similarly, won't reappear if it or the graveyard go elsewhere before
end of turn.]

Mangara's Equity Enchantment WW1 Uncommon
When you play ~, choose black or red. During your upkeep, pay 1W or bury ~. For
each 1 damage a creature of the chosen color deals to you or a white creature
you control, ~ deals 1 damage to that creature.

[Deals damage in lumps. The counterpart to Justice. Only checks for damage
from _creatures_; it won't affect Justice damage and vice versa, even if
appropriately Sleighted/Mind Bent.]

Mtenda Griffin Summon Griffin W3 Uncommon
2/2. Flying. W,T: Return ~ to owner's hand and return target Griffin card in
your graveyard to your hand. Use this ability only during your upkeep.

[If the target Griffin leaves your graveyard before resolution, you still
pick the Mtenda Griffin up. Can be used multiple times in a stack _if_ you
untap it at Talisman/triggered speed.]

Null Chamber Enchant World W3 Rare
You and target opponent each name any card except a basic land. Those cards
cannot be played.

[Specifies cards by _name_. Can't cast those cards, or lay them into play
if lands. Can get them into play by Other Nefarious Means; doesn't say "Those
cards may not be put into play".]

Pacifism Enchant Creature W1 Common
Enchanted creature cannot attack or block.

[Doesn't stop it from using creature abilities.]

Prismatic Circle Enchantment W2 Common
Cumulative Upkeep 1. When you play ~, choose a color. 1: Prevent all damage to
you from a source of the chosen color. Treat further damage from that source
normally.

[Gets all damage to you from one source in one damage-prevention step. Remember
that in 5E multiple damage at different times in a stack gives multiple
d-p steps; this makes this Circle interact like a normal one with Pestilence,
for example.]

Rashida Scalebane Summon Legend WW3 Rare
3/4. T: Bury target attacking or blocking Dragon. Gain an amount of life equal
to that Dragon's power.

[No actual burial, no life gain - only happens if the Dragon leaves play,
stops being a Dragon, or stops attacking or blocking before resolution. Remember
that regeneration pulls a creature all the way out of combat in 5E.]

Sacred Mesa Enchantment W2 Rare
During your upkeep, sacrifice a Pegasus or bury ~. W1: Put a Wild Pegasus token
into play. Treat this token as a 1/1 white creature with flying that counts as
a Pegasus.

[The tokens are creature type Pegasus and Wild Pegasus. Can eat the tokens
with the Mesa, of course. Sacred Mesa is not a creature card, it's an
enchantment card. Does _not_ tap when creating Pegasi, unlike the Kjeldoran
Outpost... because it can't...]

Shadowbane Instant W1 Uncommon
Prevent all damage to you or a creature you control from any one source. If that
source is black, gain 1 life for each 1 damage prevented in this way.

[If Ghostly Flame is in play, or if the source has been hit by Ersatz Gnomes,
you're out of luck... "Drain Life _me_, will you?"]

Sidar Jabari Summon Legend W3 Rare
2/2. Flanking. If ~ attacks, tap target creature defending player controls.

[The tap happens at the end of declare-attackers, when attackers are
finalized. Long before blockers are declared...]

Soul Echo Enchantment WWX Rare
When you play ~, put X echo counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, if
there are no echo counters on ~ bury it; otherwise, target opponent may choose
that for each 1 damage dealt to you until your next upkeep, you instead remove
1 echo counter from ~. You do not lose the game as a result of having less than
1 life.

[Last line is _very_ important; it stops you from dying from life loss or
being over-damaged. Only checks for burial-from-no-counters at the start
of your upkeep. If you're removing counters instead of being damaged, and
there's no counters left on Soul Echo, and you get damaged ... you do not
remove a counter, and you _don't take the damage either_ as far as I can
tell. {There's nothing there saying that you revert to taking the damage
if you run out of counters before beginning-of-upkeep.} If opponent instead
chooses that you _don't_ remove counters, and take damage normally... it loses
no counters until beginning of your next upkeep. Multiple Soul Echos in play
remove a counter from each one that's in "remove counter" mode for each damage
you take.]

Spectral Guardian Summon Guardian WW2 Rare
2/3. As long as ~ is untapped, noncreature artifacts cannot be the target of
spells or effects.

[If wording's correct here, it protects _everyone's_ artifacts. Doesn't stop
untargetted effects like Shatterstorm or Energy Flux.]

Sunweb Summon Wall W3 Rare
5/6. Flying. ~ cannot block creatures with power 2 or less.

[A Wall of Swords with medium-size holes in it. Power is checked at blocking
declaration time, not before or after. If the attacker's power changes during
declare-blockers after Sunweb tries to block it, this can change whether
Sunweb actually blocks it at end of step.]

Unyaro Griffin Summon Griffin W3 Uncommon
2/2. Flying. Sacrifice ~: Counter target red spell that assigns damage to you or
a creature you control. Play this ability as an interrupt.

[Does not tap to do this. Just sacrifices itself. If Sleighted, can counter
Suffocation or Eye for an Eye... or your own Simulacrum...]

Vigilant Martyr Summon Martyr W Uncommon
1/1. Sacrifice ~: Regenerate target creature. WW,T, Sacrifice ~: Counter target
spell that targets an enchantment in play. Play this ability as an interrupt.

[Also doesn't tap for the first ability. Does for the second one though.]

Wall of Resistance Summon Wall W1 Common
0/3. Flying. At the end of any turn in which ~ is dealt damage, put a +0/+1
counter on it.

[A Wall of Fungus!]

Yare Instant W2 Rare
Target creature defending player controls gets +3/+0 until end of turn. That
creature may be assigned to block up to three creatures this turn, all blocks
must be legal.

[Blaze of Glory's back, and is .... white... This is played before declare-
blockers, since it doesn't say it's legal during it. Can be played before the
attack entirely, I think? [Is there a "defending player" then? In multiplayer,
maybe not. Rulings say ... stuff targetting a "defending creature" is only
legal during the attack. The <foo>home creatures in 4E all note that there's
a defending player even if the trying-to-attack creature can't attack... Oh,
okay: Rulings for Arcum's Sleight note that there's no defending player
before an attack, so Yare's not legal before an attack. Oh well.]]

Zhalfirin Commander Summon Knight W2 Uncommon
2/2. Flanking. WW1: Target Knight gets +1/+1 until end of turn.

Zhalfirin Knight Summon Knight W2 Common
2/2. Flanking. WW: First Strike until end of turn.

[Neither one taps when doing their thing.]

Zuberi, Golden Feather Summon Legend W4 Rare
3/3. Flying. ~ counts as a Griffin. All other Griffins get +1/+1.

[Does not get his/her own bonus. A Legend, so can't have multiple bonuses.]

[Final notes: the Efreets are all Red or Blue. The Djinns are every color but
White; the black Djinn is multicolored. Arabian Nights also had green and black
Efreets; White got an Efreet/Djinn hoser in AN, but seems to have gotten no
such thing this time around. Maybe in Visions...]

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96

David DeLaney <d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu> wrote in article
<522v7v$m...@gaia.ns.utk.edu>...

| "Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> writes:
| :Is 0 toughness really checked in the middle of a resolution? I thought all
| :such checks were made only at the end of an effect (so WoF, TT, and Winds
of
| :Change can't kill Maro).
|
| _Triggered_ destruction or burial waits until after an effect resolves
[rulings
| files]. I am fairly sure, though, that since "toughness less than damage"
| now does _not_ need a d-p step in 5E, that it'll kill something [with a
chance
| for regeneration, of course] in the middle of an effect's resolving... just
| as if the effect itself lowered the toughness. This is one visible
difference
| between continuously-tracking and triggered effects...

Ah...but death beacuse damage >= toughness (including zero toughness) requires
a chance to regenerate (even if the regeneration is pointless) and that is a
triggered effect. Hence, the creature puts of dying long enough to allow the
triggered effect to be used which cannot happen until after the current effect
ends (because (as you said) triggered things wait until after the current
effect resolves) so if the creature by that time has regained it's toughness
(which Maro would under a Timetwister or Wheel of Fortune) then it won't die.

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96

d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) wrote:

>Goblin Scouts Sorcery RR3 Uncommon
>Put three Goblin Scout tokens into play. Treat these tokens as 1/1 red creatures
> with mountainwalk that count as Goblins.
>[Not a creature card. Just creates creatures. Their name is Goblin Scout;
>their type is Goblin Scout _and_ Goblin.]

I'd say Goblin only. Card Text overides normal rule.

>Celestial Dawn Enchantment WW1 Rare
>All non-land cards you own that are not in play are white. All non-land
> permanents you control are white. All lands you control are plains. All colored
> mana symbols in all costs on all of these cards and permanents are W.
>[Whoo. Inquisition, Flashfires, or Anarchy will sting. Only mana symbols
>in _costs_ are affected. I believe this doesn't overwrite the other abilities
>of a land ... it would say "basic plains" if it did that {compare Conversion},
>because a basic land _only_ has the tap-for-mana ability. It makes them
>"multilands" instead. I believe. Only mana symbols in actual costs, like
>upkeep costs, untap costs, activation costs, extra costs, etc., are affected
>[Derelor, Drain Life, Island Fish Jasconius, Thrull Wizard, etc. - but not
>Drought, which is talking _about_ mana symbols in costs].]

Plains means plains.
That means basic plains because plains are basic.
If you want to make the pedantic comment (I hope and
assume you are just _kidding_ that you think the lands
become multi-lands) it would be "Hey, Plateau is a
plains, I'll have one of those thanks."

Drought actually isn't an extra cost (according to Tom).
It's a sort of "Prevent X, unless pay Y" effect.

>Dazzling Beauty Instant W2 Common
>Play only when defense is chosen. Target unblocked creature is considered
> blocked. Draw a card at the beginning of the next turn's upkeep.
>[No creature is actually assigned to block the attacker. Will stop use
>of "if not blocked, do this" abilities. Will trigger "if blocked, do this"
>abilities, if relevant... but not "If something's assigned to block, do this";
>Rampage and Flanking are the latter type.]

When defence is chosen there are no unblocked creatures to
target of course.

>Mangara's Blessing Instant W2 Uncommon
>Gain 5 life. If a spell or effect by an opponent causes you to discard ~, gain 2
> life and return ~ from your graveyard to your hand at end of turn.
>[Anti-discard, pure and simple. Won't come back to hand if the discard's
>redirected to library with Library of Leng ... because it won't be in the
>graveyard. Similarly, won't reappear if it or the graveyard go elsewhere before
>end of turn.]

The graveyard reference may be a rule-reminder. I'd say on
balance that it would work with LoL. It's good practise to assume
that something IS a rule-reminder rather than otherwise.

>Mangara's Equity Enchantment WW1 Uncommon
>When you play ~, choose black or red. During your upkeep, pay 1W or bury ~. For
> each 1 damage a creature of the chosen color deals to you or a white creature
> you control, ~ deals 1 damage to that creature.
>[Deals damage in lumps. The counterpart to Justice. Only checks for damage
>from _creatures_; it won't affect Justice damage and vice versa, even if
>appropriately Sleighted/Mind Bent.]

Not affected by Ghostly Flame the way Justice is.

>Soul Echo Enchantment WWX Rare
>When you play ~, put X echo counters on it.
>At the beginning of your upkeep, if there are no echo counters on ~ bury it;
> otherwise, target opponent may choose that for each 1 damage dealt to you
> until your next upkeep, you instead remove 1 echo counter from ~.
>You do not lose the game as a result of having less than 1 life.

>[If you're removing counters instead of being damaged, and

>there's no counters left on Soul Echo, and you get damaged ... you do not
>remove a counter, and you _don't take the damage either_ as far as I can

>tell.]

Says "for each 1 damage dealt to you...you instead
remove 1...counter". Instead of what? Do you get to
apply dp to the damage before it is counted? I'd say
yes. IE were counting sucessful damage, as usual.
Therefore we are in Side Effect territory. What side
effect does sucessful damage normally apply? Loss
of life. This seems to be what is prevented by "instead
remove a counter". The counter removal looks for
sucesful damage only so it cannot be preventing damage.
Hypnotic Spetre would still cause its card loss, etc, etc.
What happen if there is no counter to remove? Since
you have to remove a counter _instead of_ losing life,
no counter means no prevention.

It's badly worded IMO. Maybe it meant to indicate some
sort of damage prevention (loss of life prevention being
on the rare side!). But I doubt they intended it to make
other forms of DP useless by making it activate along with
other automatic dp effects before, for example, a COP
could do anything. You could bundle it in with the
bodyguards I suppose.......

> {There's nothing there saying that you revert to taking the damage
>if you run out of counters before beginning-of-upkeep.}

True, but irrelevent. It never gave you a blanket "don't take
the damage" order to begin with. Losing a counter was always
in there as part of the deal. Maybe if it had said:
"prevent all damage. For each damage prevented lose 1 counter"

not as it did,
"for each 1 damage dealt to you...you instead remove 1...counter"

Makes the brief discussion about 2nd edition Veteran Bodyguards
seem suddenly more relevent, yes? The key thing is what they
intend the word "instead" to mean.

>If opponent instead
>chooses that you _don't_ remove counters, and take damage normally... it loses
>no counters until beginning of your next upkeep. Multiple Soul Echos in play
>remove a counter from each one that's in "remove counter" mode for each damage
>you take.]

Again, as I understand "instead" only one will lose the counter.
(players choice for each packet I suppose).

Say we have the following two enchantments:

Hero's Luck WW3
Enchantment
All red spells that deal damage to
a player deal 1 damage to them
instead.

Peace Talks WW1
Enchantment
All red instants that deal damage
to you, give their caster that much
life instead.

Now if both are in play and you are hit with a Lightning
Bolt what happens? Do you get 1 damage AND they
get 3 life? or is it one or the other?

>Wall of Resistance Summon Wall W1 Common
>0/3. Flying. At the end of any turn in which ~ is dealt damage, put a +0/+1
> counter on it.
>[A Wall of Fungus!]

A Funguwaull ?
[Bad jokes are back, and they're black, white and read all over]

David.

David Johnson

unread,

Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96

matt...@cais.cais.com (Chris Mattern) wrote:

> Chris Mattern

I asked a number of people that exact question about what
was appropriate to post on the newsgroup. Chris, they all
agreed that this was the place.

David

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96

David Johnson <dav...@msol.u-net.com> wrote in article
<521v69$1...@nuntius.u-net.net>...

As has been said many times: External abilities and changes are not forgotten
when the enchantment moves; internal abilities, etc, get completely reset.
This is why you get to draw a card when a Fetish moves, but you cannot draw a
card with the Verduran Enchantress.

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96

| >Foratog Summon Atog G2 Uncommon
| >1/2. G, Sacrifice a forest: +2/+2 until end of turn.
| >[Does not tap to do so, just like the original Atog. Atog's back and it's
| >green! There's not one Atog per color, contrary to rumor.]

| So do you pronounce that "For-atog" or "Fora-tog" ?

Fo-Ra-Tog!

| >Jungle Patrol Summon Soldiers G3 Rare
| >3/2. 1G,T: Put a Wood token into play. Treat this token as a 0/1 green
creature
| > that counts as a Wall. Sacrifice a Wood token: Add R to your mana pool.
Play
| > this ability as a mana source.
| >[The Sac-a-token-to-get-R ability is the Soldiers', not the Wood token's.
Wood
| >doesn't catch fire by itself.]

| Is that the only reason for your decision? I've written a 100+ line
| article suggesting the reverse you might want to look at!
| Of course seeing the card WOOD help. If there's a line
| break you are right. Otherwise not.

The Jungle Patrol has a specific ability: Sacrifice a Wood token: Add (R) to
your mana pool.
This ability is a completely separate ability on the Patrol which means that
if the partol aren't around, the tokens can't make (R) by themselves. [Also,
any Jungle Patrol can use any wood token]

| >Serene Heart Instant G1 Common
| >Destroy all local enchantments.
| >[This means "all enchantments sitting on/enchanting another permanent".]

| What about Takklemaggot?

If TM is enchanting a creature, then it is destroyed. If it has become a
global enchantment, then it is unaffected (but the other enchantment killer
would get it).

Cpaths

unread,

Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96

>DATE: 20 Sep 1996 17:10:10 GMT
>FROM: Mike Marcelais <mich...@microsoft.com>

>
>David DeLaney <d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu> wrote in article

><51tnd1$g...@gaia.ns.utk.edu>...
>| dav...@msol.u-net.com writes:
>| >>Phased-out stuff appears to go the same place Coffins or Oubliettes take
>| >>creatures, and to have the same "what wears off?" restrictions. Note that
>| >>nothing in Mirage lets you phase out an enchantment [except Copy
>Artifact],
>| >>though Spatial Bind lets you _prevent_ one from phasing out [which can
>make
>| >>things interesting if the enchantment's sitting on something that _does_
>| >>phase out].
>| >
>| >Not quite. Differences between phased and TC-ed:
>| >(1) don't return tapped
>| >(2) don't get summoning Sickness
>| >(3) re-set Cumulative Upkeep.
>| >Would be better to standardise (2) and (3).
>|
>| (1) is specific to the Coffin. Note that it _doesn't_ happen to things
>coming
>| back from an Oubliette. It's basically Coffin card text adding to the "phase
>| this out and keep it phased out as long as Coffin is in play tapped".
>
>Actually, Oubliette also says `If Oubliette is removed, creature returns to
>play tapped.'
>But yes, this is extra text specific to these two cards that goes further than
>normal Phasing.
>|
>| (2) is apparently specific to phasing. Don't know _why_ they want stuff that
>| phases back in under the non-active player's control to not be summon-sick -
>| but that's what they said. So far.
>
>I think it's a consequence of when they phase back in. They phase in before
>your untap phase begins. So they are in play at the start of your untap which
>makes them unsick.... {snip}
>--

>| Mike Marcelais | Excel Developer and |

But Gray quoted the mirage rule book and it said something different.
The phasing happens AT THE BEGINNING OF YOUR UNTAP phase, not a
microsecond before.

- toby robison to...@voxware.com
The opinions I express are often the opinions of Voxware, Inc., but NOT NOW.

Cpaths

unread,

Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96

>DATE: 21 Sep 1996 08:35:36 GMT
>FROM: Jay Lorch <lo...@djinn.CS.Berkeley.EDU>

>
>David DeLaney <d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu> wrote:
>>Enchantments on a permanent that phases out also phase out. Tom said this to
>>you _explicitly_; the only thing is you seem to have this Idee' Fixee' that
>>enchantments can't leave play in that manner for some reason.
>
>So, let me get this straight. Suppose my Sandbar Crocodile is
>enchanted with my opponent's Enfeeblement. On my turn, the Crocodile
>phases out. At the beginning of my opponent's next upkeep phase, you're
>saying Enfeeblement phases in (it's a permanent he controls, after all),

>finds no target, and is buried? This seems non-intuitive, at least to
>me.
>

>______________Jay_Lor...@cs.berkeley.edu______________

OK this is not a quibble. The phasing rules clearly say that a permanent
phases in on its controller's next turn, so it seems that what Jay
described should happen. Gurus, please comment.

While you're at it:

In order to make our understanding of phasing work we are also having a
little more trouble with the concept of "controller".

(1) One of our gurus stated that while it is out of play, a phased out
permananent is "not controlled".

(2) Permananents nonetheless remember who WAS controlling them when they went
out of play. If that controller was established by an effect, the effect
"snaps" but apparently that is the controller the phased out permanent
remembers. Or is it?

The phase rules allow the possibility that when a permanent comes back
into play, it may immediately find that this player is not its controller
NOW, and it will not untap if it was tapped. The example to illustrate:

-player A taps his RA to kill something.
-next, Player B uses an effect to seize control of the RA (a seasinger, maybe).
-Somebody makes the RA phase out, snapping the effect.
-now when does the RA come back? I have been assuming it's like this:

On B's next untap phase, the RA returns, and sees it is no longer under
control of B, and does not untap.

However if I'm wrong, another scenario is possible. Could it be that
the effect snapped as the RA left play, and it rememebered, while
phased out, that is was once again under control of A?

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96

| Agility Enchant Creature R1 Common
| Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 and gains flanking.
|
| [If it already has flanking, this can give it "flanking twice", under the 5E
| way of dealing with it. This, I _think_, makes it give blocking non-Flankers
| -2/-2... and multiples of Agility on a creature would act the same way.]

I Disagree. It doesn't say `Flanking: 1' (which would make twice become
`Flanking: 2'); it's just `Flanking', which means that everything still only
gets -1/-1.

After all, a creature with flanking once, wouldn't get -1/-1 from blocking a
creature with flanking twice.

[Rampage is different and would add -because- it has a value: `Rampage: X']

| Chaosphere Enchant World R2 Rare
| Creatures with flying cannot block creatures without flying. Creatures
without
| flying can block creatures with flying.
|
| [Simply "inverts" the normal rules. Does not give or take away flying from
| any creature. With this and Island Sanctuary and Undertow in play, any of
your
| creatures can block the creatures that _can_ attack... unless something
takes
| flying away from them after they attack...]

Note that this makes the Spiders' extra ability kinda useless.

| Illicit Auction Sorcery RR3 Rare
| Choose target creature. Each player may bid life for control of that
creature.
| You begin the bidding with a high bid of 0. Proceeding in turn order, each
| player may top the high bid. The auction ends when the high bid stands. The
| high bidder loses an amount of life equal to the high bid and gains control
of
| the creature.
|
| ["Top the high bid" means bidding an integral amount of life, higher than
the
| last-bid bid. Pretty clearly written. Players other than the high bidder
| lose no life from the auction. There can be no ties in a given auction;
Forking
| this gives you two separate auctions.]

with the second aution being the one that really matters [although if the
current controller of the creature loses the first auction, but wins the
second one, the creature becomes sick because his control wavered for a
moment.

Note that you can bid (and subsequently lose) more life than you have, because
you never `pay' that life.

| Volcanic Geyser Instant RRX Uncommon
| ~ deals X damage to target creature or player.
|
| [Disintegrate got downgraded...]

Eh? The Extra (R) is because it's an INSTANT instead of a Sorcerly like all
of the other X damage spells [Dwarven Catapult excluded]

| Ethereal Champion Summon Avatar WWW2 Rare
| 3/4. Pay 1 life: Prevent 1 damage to ~.
|
| [Personal Incarnation's little brudder. Worse ability, though, because you
| can't prevent the payment of life.]

On the otherhand, you don't lose half your life if it dies.

| Soul Echo Enchantment WWX Rare
| When you play ~, put X echo counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep,
if
| there are no echo counters on ~ bury it; otherwise, target opponent may
choose
| that for each 1 damage dealt to you until your next upkeep, you instead
remove
| 1 echo counter from ~. You do not lose the game as a result of having less
than
| 1 life.
|

| Multiple Soul Echos in play
| remove a counter from each one that's in "remove counter" mode for each
damage
| you take.]

I think opponent can designate that you remove counters from all of them (or
any combination). Having any Soul Echo remove counters will prevent you from
taking any damage.

--
+------------------------+----------------------+

| Mike Marcelais | Excel Developer and |

Mike Marcelais

unread,

Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96

| OK this is not a quibble. The phasing rules clearly say that a permanent
| phases in on its controller's next turn, so it seems that what Jay
| described should happen. Gurus, please comment.

I think that enchantments that phase out -only because- the thing they enchant
phased out will phase in when the enchantee phases in, rather than on the
controller of the enchantment's turn.

| In order to make our understanding of phasing work we are also having a
| little more trouble with the concept of "controller".
|
| (1) One of our gurus stated that while it is out of play, a phased out
| permananent is "not controlled".

That is not true. The permanent is still controlled by the player who
controlled it when it phased out. Now it is out of play so it can't be used
or targetted, and if a spell wants to know how many things a player controls
(or if they control anything which meets this criterion), then the phased out
permanent won't count because it isn't in play.

|
| (2) Permananents nonetheless remember who WAS controlling them when they
went
| out of play. If that controller was established by an effect, the effect
| "snaps" but apparently that is the controller the phased out permanent
| remembers. Or is it?

The control effect (like say, by the Seasinger) breaks, but it only breaks
-after- the permanent has phased out. So, if A controlled B's creature using
the Seasinger and the creature phases it, it will phase back in on A's turn,
then return to B's control.

|
| The phase rules allow the possibility that when a permanent comes back
| into play, it may immediately find that this player is not its controller
| NOW, and it will not untap if it was tapped. The example to illustrate:
|
| -player A taps his RA to kill something.
| -next, Player B uses an effect to seize control of the RA (a seasinger,
maybe).
| -Somebody makes the RA phase out, snapping the effect.
| -now when does the RA come back? I have been assuming it's like this:

RA returns on B's turn because B controlled it when it phased out. When it
phases in, it realizes that nothing is keeping it on B's side so it returns to
A. It will still be tapped because it won't get the opportunity to
participate in B's untap phase.

Jim Hamp

unread,

Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96

On 21 Sep 1996, David DeLaney wrote:

> d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) writes:
> Early Harvest Instant GG1 Rare
> Target player untaps all basic lands he or she controls.
>
> [_Not_ an interrupt or mana source - beware. Can't help you get mana for
> an interrupt to an already-announced casting.]
>
But what a combo with Fastbond. :) Lay lands, tap, untap, tap, stream of
life for twice what you payed.

> Gibbering Hyenas Summon Hyenas G2 Common
> 3/2. ~ cannot block black creatures.
>
> [Cannot be switched to block them, either. Can block them only by blocking
> a different attacker banded with one.]
>
Now this is interesting wording. And it's actual card wording...I got
one in prerelease.

Remember the difference between "blocking" and "assigning to block" that
results in being able to block a band with flankers in it without losing
the -1/-1, or other things? This wording theoretically means you cannot
even block a band with a black creature in it, since it is then blcoking
a black creature. Errata, anyone?

> Hall of Gemstone Enchant World GG1 Rare
> During each player's upkeep, that player chooses a color. Until end of turn,
> each mana-producing land produces mana of the chosen color instead of its
> normal color.
>
> [Lands will produce their normal mana during untap and during upkeep before
> this upkeep effect is resolved. They may, depending on the timing of
> Cleanup, also produce their normal mana at "at end of turn" time.]

>
> Jungle Wurm Summon Wurm GG3 Common
> 5/5. For each creature assigned to block it beyond the first, ~ gets -1/-1 until
> end of turn.
>
> [A larval Johtull Worm. Dies immediately if 6 or more creatures are directly
> assigned to block it. Doesn't care about blockers assigned to other members
> of a band it attacks in.]
>
See above cf. the difference between blocking and assigning to block.

>
> Locust Swarm Summon Swarm G3 Uncommon
> 1/1. Flying. G: Regenerate. G: Untap ~. Use this ability only once each turn.
>
> [Once each turn, not just once on your own turn.]
>
This was a great card in sealed, BTW

Hampster

It is loading more messages.

0 new messages