Parallax Wave errata
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
Howdy.
Boy, that PW is some ugly with Opalesence (remove all opponent's global
enchantments and creatures). And of course, add pandemonium, or a host of
other things, and it's game, right then and there...
Is there an errata planned for PWave? If not, this would tie storm-bond
and will-ritual as smallest infinite combos, albeit with the highest
casting cost total (5G vs 3BB vs 4WWWW). yuck =(
--
Shaun P. McIsaac "You know how Princeton has that Center for Advanced
(773) 834 - 6508 Studies? I want a Center for Basic Studies; you know,
Team U of C what *is* the best way to tie a shoelace?" - M.A.H.
David Weinlick
> Is there an errata planned for PWave?
Since we don't even have official text for the card, it's hard to know if it will
receive errata. Remember that the spoiler on MTGNews is unconfirmed, and may not
be exact (although from past precedent it's likely to be pretty accurate).
--
David Weinlick
<da...@tcinternet.net>--<fus...@tcinternet.net>
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2383/
David Chapman
news:B1Ui4.31$E3.581@uchinews...
>
> Is there an errata planned for PWave? If not, this would tie storm-bond
> and will-ritual as smallest infinite combos,
Since when have they been infinite combos? Storm Cauldron- Fastbond will
run you out of life pretty quickly, and Will-Ritual gives you 5 black mana -
not exactly infinite.
--
I was always going to be something someday.
And eventually, they're going to find out what it is.
David Weinlick
> > Is there an errata planned for PWave? If not, this would tie storm-bond
> > and will-ritual as smallest infinite combos,
>
> Since when have they been infinite combos? Storm Cauldron- Fastbond will
> run you out of life pretty quickly, and Will-Ritual gives you 5 black mana -
> not exactly infinite.
Now that Will is a replacement, you can't. It used to be a triggered ability,
so you could recast Ritual as many times as you wanted.
Add Urza's Armor to Storm-Bond, and you can have unbounded mana.
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
David Chapman <sent...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
>"Shaun Patrick Mcisaac" <spmc...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
>news:B1Ui4.31$E3.581@uchinews...
>>
>
>
>> and will-ritual as smallest infinite combos,
>
>Since when have they been infinite combos? Storm Cauldron- Fastbond will
>run you out of life pretty quickly, and Will-Ritual gives you 5 black mana -
>not exactly infinite.
I geuss you weren't around when storm drain was popular. At the time, 0
life didn't kill you. Will Ritual was infinite for a while, got errataed.
Steve Lord
> In article <86hmnv$ieo$7...@gxsn.com>,
> David Chapman <sent...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >"Shaun Patrick Mcisaac" <spmc...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
> >news:B1Ui4.31$E3.581@uchinews...
> >>
> >
> >> Is there an errata planned for PWave? If not, this would tie storm-bond
> >> and will-ritual as smallest infinite combos,
> >
> >Since when have they been infinite combos? Storm Cauldron- Fastbond will
> >run you out of life pretty quickly, and Will-Ritual gives you 5 black mana -
> >not exactly infinite.
>
> I geuss you weren't around when storm drain was popular. At the time, 0
> life didn't kill you. Will Ritual was infinite for a while, got errataed.
You mean that these unbounded combos stopped working when 6th edition
rules took effect and you died as soon as you got to 0 life and there were
no more mana sources (or did Will get errataed to be a replacement effect
before then?)
Steve L
Jason Finney
<fus...@tcinternet.net> wrote:
> David Chapman wrote:
>
>> > Is there an errata planned for PWave? If not, this would tie storm-bond
>> > and will-ritual as smallest infinite combos,
>>
>> Since when have they been infinite combos? Storm Cauldron- Fastbond will
>> run you out of life pretty quickly, and Will-Ritual gives you 5 black mana -
>> not exactly infinite.
>
> Now that Will is a replacement, you can't. It used to be a triggered ability,
> so you could recast Ritual as many times as you wanted.
>
> Add Urza's Armor to Storm-Bond, and you can have unbounded mana.
Minor correction: Yawgmoth's Will was always a replacement. However,
under 5E rules, there was no step in which replacement effects could
replace Mana Sources such as Dark Ritual (if one had existed, you could
have played Mana Sources during it, leading to all sorts of trouble).
This was fixed by making Yawgmoth's Will into a Continuous Replacement
Effect, which worked much the same way all replacement effects work now.
--
Jason Finney
"I have made a study of the superstitions of the world, and in ours
[Christianity] I find not a single redeeming feature."
-- Thomas Jefferson
David Chapman
news:388C92AE...@tcinternet.net...
> Add Urza's Armor to Storm-Bond, and you can have unbounded mana.
Hmm; Fastbond isn't loss of life.
DELANEY! ERRATA! NOW!!! <grin>
David DeLaney
>Minor correction: Yawgmoth's Will was always a replacement.
Not quite. There was an error in 6E Oracle for a while that made it triggered
again. This got fixed a while after 6E Oracle first came out. (Remember,
YW originally appeared under 5E rules...)
>This was fixed by making Yawgmoth's Will into a Continuous Replacement
>Effect, which worked much the same way all replacement effects work now.
Yep. But it got rebroken, by mistake, by the first version of 6E Oracle. But
it's Fixed again now...
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://panacea.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David DeLaney
>"David Weinlick" <fus...@tcinternet.net> wrote in message
>news:388C92AE...@tcinternet.net...
>
>> Add Urza's Armor to Storm-Bond, and you can have unbounded mana.
>
>Hmm; Fastbond isn't loss of life.
>
>DELANEY! ERRATA! NOW!!! <grin>
"DeLANEY". Pbbbbbt.
Dave "Fastbond and Urza's Armor are both legal only in which two tournament
types? And the average duration of a game in either type is what?" DeLaney
David Welsh
(David DeLaney) wrote:
> Dave "Fastbond and Urza's Armor are both legal only in which two
> tournament
> types? And the average duration of a game in either type is
> what?" DeLaney
They are both legal in Type I (Vintage) but Fastbond is banned in 1.5,
Extended and Standard. So the second, I'm guessing, is hmm.. perhaps a
Limited tournament which includes both Revised and Urza's Saga?
Type 1 is about six minutes tops for the Match. Limited averages
around 15 to 20 minutes per game.
David "I like those offbeat Limited formats" Welsh
---
"Everyone is more or less master of his own fate."
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David Chapman
news:86m8ij$4ob$1...@penn.dii.utk.edu...
> "David Chapman" <sent...@globalnet.co.uk> writes:
> >"David Weinlick" <fus...@tcinternet.net> wrote in message
> >news:388C92AE...@tcinternet.net...
> >
> >> Add Urza's Armor to Storm-Bond, and you can have unbounded mana.
> >
> >Hmm; Fastbond isn't loss of life.
> >
> >DELANEY! ERRATA! NOW!!! <grin>
>
> "DeLANEY". Pbbbbbt.
>
Ah, but I was shouting. So <raspberry> back to you.
Steve Lord
Check mtgnews.com -- they have a "slight rewording" of the Parallax cards.
Fading 5
Remove a fade counter from Parallax Wave: Remove target creature from the
game if Parallax Wave is in play.
When Parallax Wave leaves play, each player returns to play all cards
other than Parallax Wave he or she owns removed from the game with
Parallax Wave.
Fading 5
Remove a fade counter from Parallax Tide: Remove target land from the game
if Parallax Tide is in play.
When Parallax Tide leaves play, each player returns to play all cards he
or she owns removed from the game with Parallax Tide.
Fading 5
Remove a fade counter from Parallax Nexus: Target opponent removes a card
in his or her hand from the game if Parallax Nexus is in play. Play this
ability only if you could play a sorcery.
When Parallax Nexus leaves play, each player returns to his or her hand
all cards he or she owns removed from the game with Parallax Nexus.
Steve L
Jason Finney
Steve Lord <sl...@wpi.edu> wrote:
In my opinion, they should have given all three cards the same errata,
instead of singling Parallax Wave out. Sure, there's no way using
current cards to turn Parallax Tide into a land or Parallax Nexus into a
card in an opponent's hand. However, we can't know for certain that
these will always remain impossible. Wording them consistently would
make the errata easier to remember and avoid the possible need for
further action in the future.
--
Jason Finney
"Hawaii is a unique state. It is a small state. It is a state that is by
itself. It is a -- it is different from the other 49 states. Well, all
states are different, but it's got a particularly unique situation."
-- Dan Quayle, US VP
Paul Miller
>In my opinion, they should have given all three cards the same errata,
>instead of singling Parallax Wave out. Sure, there's no way using
>current cards to turn Parallax Tide into a land or Parallax Nexus into a
>card in an opponent's hand. However, we can't know for certain that
>these will always remain impossible. Wording them consistently would
>make the errata easier to remember and avoid the possible need for
>further action in the future.
Read the post again. That's exactly what they did, if, indeed, this is the
correct errata/text for the card.
David Chapman
news:3897fde9$0$96...@news.tdi.net...
*You* RTFP. Parallax Wave doesn't return itself from the RFG zone. Each of
the other two would.
Laurie Cheers
> On Tue, 01 Feb 2000 20:37:22 -0800, "Jason Finney" <ja...@finney.org>
> wrote:
>
> >In my opinion, they should have given all three cards the same
> >errata, instead of singling Parallax Wave out. Sure, there's no way
> >using current cards to turn Parallax Tide into a land or Parallax
> >Nexus into a card in an opponent's hand. However, we can't know for
> >certain that these will always remain impossible. Wording them
> >consistently would make the errata easier to remember and avoid the
> >possible need for further action in the future.
For this to be necessary in the case of Parallax Nexus, the mind
boggles. (Activated abilities of cards in your hand may be played as if
those cards were in play? Like that wouldn't cause one or two itty-bitty
problems?)
As for PTide, it's actually possible, using copy cards, to remove it
from the game with its own ability. But I really can't be bothered at
the moment.
> Read the post again. That's exactly what they did, if, indeed, this
> is the correct errata/text for the card.
No, they didn't. They fixed the "rfg stuff permanently" abuse in the
same way for all of them, but PWave has an extra "return... all cards
**other than Parallax Wave**."
--
Laurie Cheers (lrc...@york.ac.uk)
Only fools can't see
the emperor's new .sig:
Steve Lord
> Paul Miller wrote:
> > On Tue, 01 Feb 2000 20:37:22 -0800, "Jason Finney" <ja...@finney.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >In my opinion, they should have given all three cards the same
> > >errata, instead of singling Parallax Wave out. Sure, there's no way
> > >using current cards to turn Parallax Tide into a land or Parallax
> > >Nexus into a card in an opponent's hand. However, we can't know for
> > >certain that these will always remain impossible. Wording them
> > >consistently would make the errata easier to remember and avoid the
> > >possible need for further action in the future.
>
> For this to be necessary in the case of Parallax Nexus, the mind
> boggles. (Activated abilities of cards in your hand may be played as if
> those cards were in play? Like that wouldn't cause one or two itty-bitty
> problems?)
Aww, c'mon Laurie, you know you want to make up a puzzle involving a
hypothetical card like that, just to see how convoluted you can make it
*grin*
> As for PTide, it's actually possible, using copy cards, to remove it
> from the game with its own ability. But I really can't be bothered at
> the moment.
You're slipping, Laurie. Although, I can't quite think of a way to do
this offhand (hey, it's 9 AMish here, and I was up late fiddling with ICQ
... which doesn't quite work yet :(
> > Read the post again. That's exactly what they did, if, indeed, this
> > is the correct errata/text for the card.
>
> No, they didn't. They fixed the "rfg stuff permanently" abuse in the
> same way for all of them, but PWave has an extra "return... all cards
> **other than Parallax Wave**."
Well, it's easy (as we have all seen) to get a Parallax Wave to be able to
remove itself. As you said, it's hard to see how you would go about
removing a Parallax Nexus from your hand using its own ability or having
Parallax Tide become a land and RFG itself.
Steve L
David Chapman
news:389827FD...@york.ac.uk...
> Paul Miller wrote:
> > On Tue, 01 Feb 2000 20:37:22 -0800, "Jason Finney" <ja...@finney.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >In my opinion, they should have given all three cards the same
> > >errata, instead of singling Parallax Wave out. Sure, there's no way
> > >using current cards to turn Parallax Tide into a land or Parallax
> > >Nexus into a card in an opponent's hand. However, we can't know for
> > >certain that these will always remain impossible. Wording them
> > >consistently would make the errata easier to remember and avoid the
> > >possible need for further action in the future.
>
> For this to be necessary in the case of Parallax Nexus, the mind
> boggles. (Activated abilities of cards in your hand may be played as if
> those cards were in play? Like that wouldn't cause one or two itty-bitty
> problems?)
>
> from the game with its own ability. But I really can't be bothered at
> the moment.
It's easier to remove the Nexus, though. Can you figure out a way to RFG
the Nexus with its' own ability? Then, can you figure out a reason to do
so?
Laurie Cheers
> On Wed, 2 Feb 2000, Laurie Cheers wrote:
> > from the game with its own ability. But I really can't be bothered
> > at the moment.
>
<sigh> I never could resist that sort of challenge...
> Although, I can't quite think of a way to do
> this offhand (hey, it's 9 AMish here, and I was up late fiddling with
> ICQ ... which doesn't quite work yet :(
It ain't easy. I wanted to have PTide's own ability remove it, but of
course you can't get Fade counters onto an Unstable Shapeshifter, and
Vesuvan Doppelganger can't change shape in response to things. So it
wasn't going to work.
Anyway:
In play: Vernal Equinox, Opalescence, Unstable Shapeshifter.
Play something that RFGs things... say, Pit Spawn. US becomes a Pit
Spawn. Play Hermetic Study on US, and make it ping itself.
Let the ping resolve, then put the triggered RFG ability on the stack.
In response, play PTide; US becomes a PTide.
PTide RFGs itself, triggers, and brings itself back. That wouldn't
happen if it had recieved the same errata as PWave.
David Welsh
d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) wrote:
>since the Merfolk Capper is in Nemesis, a combo that
>requires three PWs in play at once -and- an Op., isn't one to
worry about,
>I think. And the loop is only good, really, for 'resetting' the
fade counters
>on all three PWs (plus keeping opponent's creatures all
constantly summon-
>sick).
Each Wave gets -five- counters, so the Loop with 3PW+Opalescence
is good for whatever CIP ability of a creature you care to use.
This is a 5 card combo but still is good for a variety of
things, Angelic Chorus, Ghitu Slinger, Rishadan Cutpurse, etc.
David Welsh
David DeLaney
>>As for PTide, it's actually possible, using copy cards, to remove it
>>from the game with its own ability. But I really can't be bothered at
>>the moment.
>
>can say (and a couple other people here know too) that this is in fact still
>somewhat under discussion... it would require either an Unstable Shapeshifter
>or a Vesuvan Doppelganer, but yes, as we presently know them the 6E copy
>card rules -would- allow this.
...No, actually; after thinking some more, this isn't possible. You could
get one PT to remove -another- medium-easy ... but for a PT to remove
-itself-, it would have to be both a PT (to have the ability) and a land
(to be a legal target for the ability) -while announcing- the ability.
Because, essentially, there's no way to make a _Silver Wyvern_ into a...
... no, wait, there we go. PT/Unstable targets an Unstable land. In response
put a Wyvern into play; both change into Wyverns. Then put an animated land
into play (requires Nature's Revolt or the like), and have the PT/Unstable
(now a Wyvern) change form first, and the not-yet-changed Wyvern redirect the
ability to the land. (After which -it- changes into a land again also.)
>However, it's complex enough to do that
>it's not gonna cause an "all your/opponent's lands keep going away ... and
>returning untapped..." loop without _major_ effort and many cards invested.
With this I still hold, obviously.
Other notes: In musing about PW/Op on .strategy, I figured out that while
_two_ PWs can't "loop", _three_ can. But again, since you're only allowed to
have four in a deck and since the Merfolk Capper is in Nemesis, a combo that
requires three PWs in play at once -and- an Op., isn't one to worry about,
I think. And the loop is only good, really, for 'resetting' the fade counters
on all three PWs (plus keeping opponent's creatures all constantly summon-
sick).
Dave
Steve Lord
> d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes:
> >>As for PTide, it's actually possible, using copy cards, to remove it
> >>from the game with its own ability. But I really can't be bothered at
> >>the moment.
*snipped the impressive discussion of how to PTide itself*
> >However, it's complex enough to do that
> >it's not gonna cause an "all your/opponent's lands keep going away ... and
> >returning untapped..." loop without _major_ effort and many cards invested.
>
> With this I still hold, obviously.
>
> Other notes: In musing about PW/Op on .strategy, I figured out that while
> _two_ PWs can't "loop", _three_ can. But again, since you're only allowed to
> have four in a deck and since the Merfolk Capper is in Nemesis, a combo that
> requires three PWs in play at once -and- an Op., isn't one to worry about,
> I think. And the loop is only good, really, for 'resetting' the fade counters
> on all three PWs (plus keeping opponent's creatures all constantly summon-
> sick).
Or pulling the unlimited 187 combo.
Hmm ... Intuition for 3 PW's, get two in the graveyard and 1 in hand, play
one or discard one, and Replenish?
Steve L
David DeLaney
>It's easier to remove the Nexus, though. Can you figure out a way to RFG
>the Nexus with its' own ability?
No; it can't be a card in play under your control, and a card in opponent's
hand, at the same time. (PW is easy to have be a creature in play when its
ability resolves; PT -can- be a land in play under your control when -its-
ability resolves, though with difficulty, and you can even manage to announce
the ability legally, with -extreme- difficulty. But PN would have to be,
literally, in two zones at once.)
> Then, can you figure out a reason to do so?
Well, if it didn't have the "if PN is in play" Errata, you could have this
happen with Grinning Totem and Hoodwink. And the reason would be "to get
it out of opponent's deck permanently". But it did get that Errata along
with the other two, so unless Laurie gets that brainware upgrade I think
we're out of luck.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
David DeLaney
>It ain't easy. I wanted to have PTide's own ability remove it, but of
>course you can't get Fade counters onto an Unstable Shapeshifter,
Sure you can. You don't even need a Giant Fan to do so.
Hint: _Which_ copy card can come into play as one thing and change to
another thing?
>and Vesuvan Doppelganger can't change shape in response to things.
Not while it's a Dopp, it can't.
>So it wasn't going to work.
Oh, you were so close. But no Rice-a-Roni for you.
Laurie Cheers
> Laurie Cheers <lrc...@demeter.cs.york.ac.uk> wrote:
> >It ain't easy. I wanted to have PTide's own ability remove it, but of
> >course you can't get Fade counters onto an Unstable Shapeshifter,
>
> another thing?
Aargh aargh aargh...
> >and Vesuvan Doppelganger can't change shape in response to things.
>
> Not while it's a Dopp, it can't.
>
> >So it wasn't going to work.
>
> Oh, you were so close. But no Rice-a-Roni for you.
**Right**. Ok. (spits on palms):
Vernal Equinox, Opalescence, Nature's Revolt, PTide in play.
Play Doppelganger copying PTide, it gets its Fade counters. Play US(1).
Next turn, make Dopp become a US(2).
Play another PTide. Both USs become PTides (and Dopp loses its Dopp
ability). Play a land. US(2) becomes a land first, target it with
US(1)'s PTide ability. Play Silver Wyvern in response... yeah. That sort
of thing.
David Chapman
news:slrn89l6f...@gatekeeper.vic.com...
> Laurie Cheers <lrc...@demeter.cs.york.ac.uk> wrote:
> >It ain't easy. I wanted to have PTide's own ability remove it, but of
> >course you can't get Fade counters onto an Unstable Shapeshifter,
>
>
> another thing?
Volrath's Shapeshifter and Unstable Shapeshifter can both do it, but they
won't get any fade counters when they do - therefore Parallax Inhibitor
won't work.
David DeLaney
>"David DeLaney" <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote in message
>> another thing?
>
>Volrath's Shapeshifter and Unstable Shapeshifter can both do it,
Er, no. _Neither_ of those can. (...Okay, -as I stated it- they can...but I
-meant-, actually, "can come into play copying one thing [to get the Fade
counters] and change to copy another thing". Precision, precision...)
>but they won't get any fade counters when they do
Correct. So you need a Doppelganger. (Or something copying a Dopp that
has Fade counters on it.)
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu "It's not the pot that grows the flower