steel golem
Josef Bauer
of what use is the steel golem?
its bad for me when i cant cast creatures. exchanging control with
zur's weirding is my only idea on that.
is the golem of any other use?
--
LOAD "WIN95",8,1
RUN
$&*!-#/> NO CARRIER
Andre Engels
Josef Bauer wrote:
>
> of what use is the steel golem?
> its bad for me when i cant cast creatures. exchanging control with
> zur's weirding is my only idea on that.
>
> is the golem of any other use?
Sure. It's a 3/4 creature, so you can attack and/or block with
it. This may sound trivial and boring, but that's really all
there is to it: It's a 3/4 creature and costs only 3 colourless
mana. That's ridiculously cheap. However, there is also a large
disadvantage connected with it to even things out. So if you have
a deck in which the Golem's disadvantage is not felt very hard
(because you have little or no other Summon- or Artifact Creature-
spells in it), you can use it to get a nice creature in for a
low price.
--
Andre Engels, eng...@win.tue.nl, ICQ #6260644
http://www.win.tue.nl/cs/fm/engels/index_en.html
I have not seen thy sunny face,
Nor heard thy silver laughter;
No thought of me shall find a place
In thy young life's hereafter. - Lewis Carroll
GriZzmo
Andre Engels wrote:
>
> Josef Bauer wrote:
> >
> > of what use is the steel golem?
> > its bad for me when i cant cast creatures. exchanging control with
> > zur's weirding is my only idea on that.
> >
> > is the golem of any other use?
>
> Sure. It's a 3/4 creature, so you can attack and/or block with
> it. This may sound trivial and boring, but that's really all
> there is to it: It's a 3/4 creature and costs only 3 colourless
> mana. That's ridiculously cheap. However, there is also a large
> disadvantage connected with it to even things out. So if you have
> a deck in which the Golem's disadvantage is not felt very hard
> (because you have little or no other Summon- or Artifact Creature-
> spells in it), you can use it to get a nice creature in for a
> low price.
>
creatures into play, like Snake Baske, Hornet Cannon and Stalking
Stones.
--
| _ | | | | | | | I was brought up on BBS'
_| _| | / | / | | | | Therefore this is not a sig.,
| | | | /| /| | | | | | it's an extended...T A G L I N E!
___| _|_| _| ___| ___| _|_|_| ___|
Michelle Bottorff
Josef Bauer <lord....@t-online.de> wrote:
> of what use is the steel golem?
It's cheap.
> its bad for me when i cant cast creatures. exchanging control with
> zur's weirding is my only idea on that.
If you do, I recommend a big wall or two with no damaging capabilities,
because you're going to see it coming over every turn as your opponent
tries to get it killed off.
> is the golem of any other use?
Decks with few creatures, or ones with some way other than casting to
get creatures into play (Animate dead is the only one that comes to mind
right now).
Ingo Kemper
On 6 Mar 1998 14:31:45 GMT, lord....@t-online.de (Josef Bauer)
wrote:
>of what use is the steel golem?
It is a creature. It can attack, it can block. It can be sacrificed.
There are several uses. (-:
>its bad for me when i cant cast creatures.
That's true. Well, then, try it in a direct damage deck as your only
creature. Steel Golem is pretty cheap (3/4 for just 3 mana), so it can
be cast rather early and is able to stop many smaller creatures.
>exchanging control with zur's weirding is my only idea on that.
Hm, you're talking about Gauntlets of Chaos, right?
>is the golem of any other use?
Well, it only prevents you from playing summons and artifact creature
spells. You can still play sorceries and instants that put creatures
into play. Also, cards like Animate Dead also still work. The golem
probably works best in a deck with only a few creatures and many
non-creature spells.
Ingo Kemper
--
__ _ __ __ __ __
__/ /_/ \/ /_/____/_ |___Sky...@uni-muenster.de___---===> \
/_/ /_/\_/ |__/ |__/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---===>__/
Broccoli!
On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, Ingo Kemper wrote:
-(>exchanging control with zur's weirding is my only idea on that.
-(
-(Hm, you're talking about Gauntlets of Chaos, right?
Hey check out this baby! Gauntlets a derelor and slight of mind it
to your opponents main color. If they don't have black then they are
screwed[1]. cast a pacifism or gasious form to save yourself.
<heh heh heh>
Marcellus Teisler Broccoli! Fauci
oh yeah
[1] more of if you have the ability to play this mostrocity and you
opponent hasn't killed you yet then he or she is screwed any way.
PM Bowles
On 6 Mar 1998, Josef Bauer wrote:
>
> of what use is the steel golem?
> its bad for me when i cant cast creatures. exchanging control with
> zur's weirding is my only idea on that.
>
> is the golem of any other use?
Frankly, not much. A 3/4 with a special ability will only cost you 2GG;
a bsic 3/4 can be yours for the same price in another colour (at least
when they bring one out; I am assuming it would be costed identically to
the 4/3 Lowland Giant). The Ekundu Cyclops costs R more than the Golem,
and has a less severe disadvantage, any prospective basic green 3/4
would cost 3G, Portal's Plant Elemental costs 1G and has no
disadvantages when in play...I could go on, but the simple fact is that,
given its vulnerability to destruction spells compared with a normal
creature, the Golem just wouldn't be particularly efficient with a minor
drawback, and none of the above examples are efficient enough to be
playable (at least none currently existing in a competitive format).
Control decks sometimes use it because it gives their opponents an
additional artifact to worry about when choosing a target for Disenchant
but, frankly, it is a useless card in almost every deck. Besides, Zur's
Wierding doesn't exchange control of anything; you are thinking of
Juxtapose and Legerdemain, both of which are too expensive for such a
questionable combination.
Philip Bowles
Elliot Fertik
Josef Bauer (lord....@t-online.de) wrote:
:
: of what use is the steel golem?
: its bad for me when i cant cast creatures. exchanging control with
: zur's weirding is my only idea on that.
:
: is the golem of any other use?
A lot of people are missing the entire point of the Golem.
A 3/4 creature for 3 is undercosted. If you have NO other summon
cards, it's a great bargain. Go onto www.thedojo.com and look at the
"Steel Necro" deck for an example of a good deck using the Steel Golem.
-Elliot Fertik
Dustin Sorel
He certainly fits nicely in my Abyss Deck...
Dustin
Todd Lykins
PM Bowles wrote:
>
> On 6 Mar 1998, Josef Bauer wrote:
>
> >
> > of what use is the steel golem?
> > its bad for me when i cant cast creatures. exchanging control with
> > zur's weirding is my only idea on that.
> >
> > is the golem of any other use?
>
> a bsic 3/4 can be yours for the same price in another colour (at least
> when they bring one out; I am assuming it would be costed identically to
> the 4/3 Lowland Giant). The Ekundu Cyclops costs R more than the Golem,
> and has a less severe disadvantage, any prospective basic green 3/4
> would cost 3G, Portal's Plant Elemental costs 1G and has no
> disadvantages when in play...I could go on, but the simple fact is that,
> given its vulnerability to destruction spells compared with a normal
> creature, the Golem just wouldn't be particularly efficient with a minor
> drawback, and none of the above examples are efficient enough to be
> playable (at least none currently existing in a competitive format).
> Control decks sometimes use it because it gives their opponents an
> additional artifact to worry about when choosing a target for Disenchant
> but, frankly, it is a useless card in almost every deck. Besides, Zur's
> Wierding doesn't exchange control of anything; you are thinking of
> Juxtapose and Legerdemain, both of which are too expensive for such a
> questionable combination.
>
> Philip Bowles
Try the steel golem in a creatureless/near creatureless deck. It can
work wonders if you use things such as chimeric spheres as your other
creatures. With the new hornet cannon and Volraths Lab(way overcosted
but hey, it can work) having decks with less creatures isn't too
terribly hard. The steel golem shouldn't be found in your Green Stompy,
but you might wanna give it a shot in your Black Pox deck. Infact, some
championship pox decks have used the steel golem to great advantage. The
steel golem isn't as useless as you think, although on the surface it
lacks luster.
Jason
PM Bowles
If you take this line, then you have to accept severe restrictions upon
what you can use in your deck, most of which will be artifacts, all for
one measly 3/4 which your opponent can stop with a Mind Games or Amber
Prison; it does go well with Teferi's Veil though. In fact, after
rereading my original post I believe there is actually a 3G 3/4 in
Portal (a Treefolk of some sort I believe) so we should be seeing it in
a genuine expansion soon. As for the Laboratory, it is no more expensive
tan a bought-back Lab Rat or Verdant Touch (although the latter's main
advantage is that the land probably won't have summoning sickness) and
can be used at instant speed, and Hornet Cannon works wonders with
Crovax.
Philip Bowles
Tolun
Todd Lykins <tly...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Try the steel golem in a creatureless/near creatureless deck. It can
Your best bet is probably "near creatureless," because if it's
creatureless, what's the Steel Golem doing in it? :)
>work wonders if you use things such as chimeric spheres as your other
>creatures. With the new hornet cannon and Volraths Lab(way overcosted
>but hey, it can work) having decks with less creatures isn't too
True enough... And Lab Rats/Goblin Bombardment isn't such a bad idea
for such a deck...
>terribly hard. The steel golem shouldn't be found in your Green Stompy,
Why not? Great with Overrun... :)
>but you might wanna give it a shot in your Black Pox deck. Infact, some
>championship pox decks have used the steel golem to great advantage. The
SchneiderPox, wasn't it? And Steel Curtain was a Propaganda/Winter
Orb/Steel Golem deck, wasn't it?
>steel golem isn't as useless as you think, although on the surface it
>lacks luster.
I didn't think much of it when I first saw it, beyond the obvious
usefulness with Chimeric Sphere and Xenthic Statue or whatever it
was... but having seen its usefulness as a game ender in near
creatureless decks, I have a much higher respect for it...
Tolun
ka...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
Josef Bauer (lord....@t-online.de) wrote:
: of what use is the steel golem?
: its bad for me when i cant cast creatures. exchanging control with
: zur's weirding is my only idea on that.
: is the golem of any other use?
It's a Cheap, big creature. This makes it of use in low-creature
mana-control style decks; big enough not to need a lot of them, cheap
enough that your global mana-denial won't make him impossible to cast.
--
Glenn.
------
My illusions are shattered,
That I might build a new one from their pieces.
In chaos, all is possible.
David K. Lewis
> > >
> > > of what use is the steel golem?
> > > its bad for me when i cant cast creatures. exchanging control with
> > > zur's weirding is my only idea on that.
> > >
> > > is the golem of any other use?
> >
> > it. This may sound trivial and boring, but that's really all
> > there is to it: It's a 3/4 creature and costs only 3 colourless
> > mana. That's ridiculously cheap. However, there is also a large
> > disadvantage connected with it to even things out. So if you have
> > a deck in which the Golem's disadvantage is not felt very hard
> > (because you have little or no other Summon- or Artifact Creature-
> > spells in it), you can use it to get a nice creature in for a
> > low price.
> >
> If you need additional creature power you can use cards that brings
> creatures into play, like Snake Baske, Hornet Cannon and Stalking
> Stones.
You can also put it in a Teferi's Veil deck. That way when you attack
with it, it will phase out and after combat you can cast any other
creature(s) you want.
Dave.
Graham Downs
Michelle Bottorff <mbot...@sprintmail.com> wrote in article
<1998030612...@sdn-ts-002mojcitp11.dialsprint.net>...
| Decks with few creatures, or ones with some way other than casting to
| get creatures into play (Animate dead is the only one that comes to mind
| right now).
That card (what's it's name?) that allows any player to play any summon
spell as an Instant? It's in Tempest or Stronghold - I remember a debate
here about it awhile ago.
Cheers
Nocturne
--
Sysop: Dungeon Keep BBS
Phone: +27-11-902-2693
Hours: 19:00 - 04:00 GMT
FamilyNet: 8:7903/1 MaGNET: 20:20/0
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Dungeon Keep also offers custom made programs,
and other misc. computer services.
My "Magic in SA" Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Stadium/6319/
Morgan Lewis
Graham Downs wrote:
>
> Michelle Bottorff <mbot...@sprintmail.com> wrote in article
> <1998030612...@sdn-ts-002mojcitp11.dialsprint.net>...
> | Decks with few creatures, or ones with some way other than casting to
> | get creatures into play (Animate dead is the only one that comes to mind
> | right now).
>
> That card (what's it's name?) that allows any player to play any summon
> spell as an Instant? It's in Tempest or Stronghold - I remember a debate
> here about it awhile ago.
>
> Cheers
> Nocturne
Aluren? Wouldn't work. You're still playing a summon spell. You're
playing it whenever you could cast an instant, but that doesn't make it
an instant. Steel Golem still stops you cold.
Morgan
PM Bowles
On 10 Mar 1998, Graham Downs wrote:
> Michelle Bottorff <mbot...@sprintmail.com> wrote in article
> <1998030612...@sdn-ts-002mojcitp11.dialsprint.net>...
> | Decks with few creatures, or ones with some way other than casting to
> | get creatures into play (Animate dead is the only one that comes to mind
> | right now).
>
> That card (what's it's name?) that allows any player to play any summon
> spell as an Instant? It's in Tempest or Stronghold - I remember a debate
> here about it awhile ago.
Aluren. It doesn't work because the spell type is still 'Summon
<creature>'; Aluren merely reduces the casting cost and allows you to
play the card whenever you could play an instant, not as an instant.
Otherwise Benalish Knight and King Cheetah would be unaffected by Steel
Golem's ability.
Philip Bowles
Graham Downs
Morgan Lewis <m...@efn.org> wrote in article <35061BFE...@efn.org>...
| Aluren? Wouldn't work. You're still playing a summon spell. You're
| playing it whenever you could cast an instant, but that doesn't make it
| an instant. Steel Golem still stops you cold.
Just re-read the card - you're right.
What other spells allow you to play summon's as instants?
The Man
> Morgan Lewis <m...@efn.org> wrote in article
<35061BFE...@efn.org>...
> Graham Downs wrote:
> >
> > Michelle Bottorff <mbot...@sprintmail.com> wrote in article
> > <1998030612...@sdn-ts-002mojcitp11.dialsprint.net>...
> > | Decks with few creatures, or ones with some way other than casting
to
> > | get creatures into play (Animate dead is the only one that comes to
mind
> > | right now).
Has anyone seen the Control Deck in one of the more recent InQuest mags?
It used the steel golem to it's max. Being the only creature in a
Propa'Orb with Pendrill Mists Lock it worked beutifully.
PM Bowles
On 11 Mar 1998, Graham Downs wrote:
> Morgan Lewis <m...@efn.org> wrote in article <35061BFE...@efn.org>...
> | Aluren? Wouldn't work. You're still playing a summon spell. You're
> | playing it whenever you could cast an instant, but that doesn't make it
> | an instant. Steel Golem still stops you cold.
>
> Just re-read the card - you're right.
> What other spells allow you to play summon's as instants?
Lure of Prey (Mirage) and Winding Canyons (Weatherlight) allow you to
play creatures at instant speed; in fact, Lure of Prey does ignore the
Golem as you 'put the card into play' rather than summon it, but Winding
Canyons is affected in the same way as Aluren. Natural Order also puts a
creature card directly into play (so does not summon it) while Errand of
Duty (Alliances), Lab Rats, Verdant Touch and the Statues (Jade,
Xanthic, Chimeric Sphere) are not nor are creature/lands (Living Lands,
Nature's Revolt, Living Plane, Kormus Bell, Mishra's Factory, Stalking
Stones, Mishra's Groundbreaker).
Philip Bowles
David Sachs
"Graham Downs" <noctu...@geocities.com> writes:
>Just re-read the card - you're right.
>What other spells allow you to play summon's as instants?
The LAND, Winding Canyons. lets you do it.
--
** The Klingons' favorite food was named by the first earthling to see it **
David Sachs - Fermilab, MSSG MS369 - P. O. Box 500 - Batavia, IL 60510
Voice: 1 630 840 3942 Department Fax: 1 630 840 3785
Elocutu...@hotmail.com
In article <6ehm45$2...@fsui02.fnal.gov>,
sa...@fnal.fnal.gov wrote:
>
> "Graham Downs" <noctu...@geocities.com> writes:
>
> >Just re-read the card - you're right.
> >What other spells allow you to play summon's as instants?
>
> The LAND, Winding Canyons. lets you do it.
So does Aluren. But, neither of these cards stops it from being a "summon"
spell.
--Elocutus
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Richard Graham
On 10 Mar 98 21:17:01 GMT, "Graham Downs" <noctu...@geocities.com>
wrote:
>Michelle Bottorff <mbot...@sprintmail.com> wrote in article
><1998030612...@sdn-ts-002mojcitp11.dialsprint.net>...
>| Decks with few creatures, or ones with some way other than casting to
>| get creatures into play (Animate dead is the only one that comes to mind
>| right now).
>
>That card (what's it's name?) that allows any player to play any summon
>spell as an Instant? It's in Tempest or Stronghold - I remember a debate
>here about it awhile ago.
>
>Cheers
>Nocturne
>
>--
>Sysop: Dungeon Keep BBS
>Phone: +27-11-902-2693
>Hours: 19:00 - 04:00 GMT
>FamilyNet: 8:7903/1 MaGNET: 20:20/0
>Free EMail: @dkeep.lairbbs.co.za
>
>Dungeon Keep also offers custom made programs,
>and other misc. computer services.
>
>My "Magic in SA" Web Site:
>http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Stadium/6319/
>
>
>
I use it in a reanimator deck. I use living deaths, necromancy,
animate dead, and the global ench. that you pay 2 life, 2 black and
sac a swamp. I find that they are good early game offense and
defense.
Hindman
Elocutu...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> In article <6ehm45$2...@fsui02.fnal.gov>,
> sa...@fnal.fnal.gov wrote:
> >
> > "Graham Downs" <noctu...@geocities.com> writes:
> >
> > >Just re-read the card - you're right.
> > >What other spells allow you to play summon's as instants?
> >
> > The LAND, Winding Canyons. lets you do it.
>
> So does Aluren. But, neither of these cards stops it from being a "summon"
> spell.
There is an artifact from the Homelands expansion which allows you
to play minotaurs as instants.
Didgeridoo
Cost: 1
Card Text: 3: Take a Minotaur from your hand and put it
directly into play as though it were just summoned.
My understanding of the card text is that the minotaurs are not
being summoned, but are put into play. Therefore, they should not
be affected by cards like Aether Storm and Soul Barrier. Futhermore,
they can be countered without the use of interdict.
- Brad Hindman
Hindman
Oops, that should be cannot be countered without the use of interdict.
Brad
Gravessite
> There is an artifact from the Homelands expansion which allows you
> to play minotaurs as instants.
>
> Didgeridoo
> Cost: 1
> Card Text: 3: Take a Minotaur from your hand and put it
> directly into play as though it were just summoned.
>
> being summoned, but are put into play. Therefore, they should not
> be affected by cards like Aether Storm and Soul Barrier. Futhermore,
> they can be countered without the use of interdict.
>
> - Brad Hindman
Brad, You are incorrect. The Minotuars are being summoned. Read the
wording "put it directly into play as though it were just summoned."
Just Summoned being the key words here, you cannot play them when AEther
Storm is in play and you still take damage from the Soul Barrier. Read
Steel Golem again too. You simply cannot play summon spells with the
use of Didgeridoo, Aluren, Dream Halls, Winding Canyons, or even Natural
Order. Do you see what I am saying? "You cannot play summon spells or
artifact creature spells" means what it says.
Spells like Soul Barrier can be Deflected in multiplayer games. My only
advise to you with your golem is to use Guantlets of Chaos and steal
your opponents Llanowar Elf.
Adam Rettberg
On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Gravessite wrote:
}}> There is an artifact from the Homelands expansion which allows you
}}> to play minotaurs as instants.
}}>
}}> Didgeridoo
}}> Cost: 1
}}> Card Text: 3: Take a Minotaur from your hand and put it
}}> directly into play as though it were just summoned.
}}>
}}> My understanding of the card text is that the minotaurs are not
}}> being summoned, but are put into play. Therefore, they should not
}}> be affected by cards like Aether Storm and Soul Barrier. Futhermore,
}}> they can be countered without the use of interdict.
}}>
}}> - Brad Hindman
}}
}}Brad, You are incorrect. The Minotuars are being summoned. Read the
}}wording "put it directly into play as though it were just summoned."
}}Just Summoned being the key words here, you cannot play them when AEther
}}Storm is in play and you still take damage from the Soul Barrier. Read
}}Steel Golem again too. You simply cannot play summon spells with the
}}use of Didgeridoo, Aluren, Dream Halls, Winding Canyons, or even Natural
}}Order. Do you see what I am saying? "You cannot play summon spells or
}}artifact creature spells" means what it says.
I'd brush up on the rules if I were you. Everything you said is mistaken.
Effects that put creatures directly into play from your hand are not
considered 'summon spells,' nor are they prevented by Aether Storm, nor do
they trigger Soul Barrier.
Casting a 'summon spell' and 'putting a creature into play from your hand'
are two very different things, just as 'draw a card' and 'put a card into
your hand' are two different things.
We Are
adam
Third of Five
Broccoli!
On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Adam Rettberg wrote:
-(I'd brush up on the rules if I were you. Everything you said is mistaken.
-(Effects that put creatures directly into play from your hand are not
-(considered 'summon spells,' nor are they prevented by Aether Storm, nor do
-(they trigger Soul Barrier.
-(
-(Casting a 'summon spell' and 'putting a creature into play from your hand'
-(are two very different things, just as 'draw a card' and 'put a card into
-(your hand' are two different things.
New examples of this include burgeoning. It doesn't activate horn
of greed. The part of cards like goblin wizard and willow priestes that
state "as if they were summoned" pertains to the fact that they creatures
still have jetlag or summoning sickness. This, again, ignores aether storm
and feroz ban.
Ingo Warnke
Gravessite (Grave...@clds.net) wrote:
: > There is an artifact from the Homelands expansion which allows you
: > to play minotaurs as instants.
: >
: > Didgeridoo
: > Cost: 1
: > Card Text: 3: Take a Minotaur from your hand and put it
: >
: > My understanding of the card text is that the minotaurs are not
: > being summoned, but are put into play. Therefore, they should not
: > be affected by cards like Aether Storm and Soul Barrier. Futhermore,
: > they can be countered without the use of interdict.
: >
: > - Brad Hindman
: Brad, You are incorrect.
No, Brad is correct.
: The Minotuars are being summoned. Read the
: wording "put it directly into play as though it were just summoned."
It says 'put into play', not 'summon them'. The 'as though'-clause is there
to remind people that the Minotaur is summoning sick. It isn't strictly
necessary.
Ingo Warnke
Paul Miller
On Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:31:13 -0500, Gravessite <Grave...@clds.net> wrote:
>Just Summoned being the key words here, you cannot play them when AEther
>Storm is in play and you still take damage from the Soul Barrier. Read
>Steel Golem again too. You simply cannot play summon spells with the
>use of
>Didgeridoo
Wrong.
>Aluren,Dream Halls, Winding Canyons,
Right. These all give you alternative ways of playing spells; you still play
the spell, just at a different time than usual or by paying a cost different
from its casting cost.
>or even Natural Order.
Wrong again, unfortunately.
>Do you see what I am saying? "You cannot play summon spells or
>artifact creature spells" means what it says.
This is correct. However, putting a creature into play with Natural Order or
Didgeridoo's ability is not "playing a summon spell." In fact, it is not
playing a spell at all in the case of Didgeradoo. Steel Golem does not prevent
playing the Natural Order spell, nor the Didgeridoo ability. It does nothing to
counter the effect of those, either. Hence they can be played and resolve fully
with a Steel Golem in play. By the same logic, Feroz's Ban, Aether Storm, et
al. do not affect Didgeridoo or Natural Order, either.
Do not take this as a flame, but I think you should RTFM a bit closer before
posting in response to rules questions (which belong in .rules, not .strategy,
btw.)