En-Kor/Maniac Damage Assignment
Mark Graybill
I've heard of a killer combo using an En-Kor with a Mogg Maniac while a
Furnace of Rath is in play, but it doesn't make sense to me. The idea is
that say, 1 damage is assigned to an En-Kor, which redirects it to
itself, doubling to 2 damage, redirected to itself again ad nauseum
until you've got a Googelplex of damage at which point it is redirected
to the Mogg Maniac, doing a Googelplex of damage to target opponent.
Why this doesn't make sense to me is that the En-Kor is redirecting
damage one at a time, so it appears that the En-Kor would first redirect
one damage of the Googelplex damage to the Mogg Maniac, doubling to two
damage thanks to the Furnace, triggering its ability to do two damage to
target opponent, damage prevention step ensues, assume no damage
prevention, Maniac takes damage equal to or greater than toughness and
goes to graveyard. Now the En-Kor still has Googelplex minus one damage
to deal with.
Is there something wrong with my thinking? Does the damage all get
assigned together even though it is redirected one damage at a time?
Thanks,
Mark Graybill
Mark Graybill
Mark Graybill wrote:
> I've heard of a killer combo using an En-Kor with a Mogg Maniac while a
> Furnace of Rath is in play, but it doesn't make sense to me. The idea is
> that say, 1 damage is assigned to an En-Kor, which redirects it to
> itself, doubling to 2 damage, redirected to itself again ad nauseum
> until you've got a Googelplex of damage at which point it is redirected
> to the Mogg Maniac, doing a Googelplex of damage to target opponent.
>
Well, of course actually doing Googelplex times two damage to the Maniac and
Googelplex times four to the target opponent, but you get the idea.
> Why this doesn't make sense to me is that the En-Kor is redirecting
> damage one at a time, so it appears that the En-Kor would first redirect
> one damage of the Googelplex damage to the Mogg Maniac, doubling to two
> damage thanks to the Furnace, triggering its ability to do two damage to
> target opponent, damage prevention step ensues, assume no damage
> prevention, Maniac takes damage equal to or greater than toughness and
> goes to graveyard. Now the En-Kor still has Googelplex minus one damage
> to deal with.
>
Err, I meant dealing _four_ damage to target opponent, of course.
Ingo Kemper
On Fri, 22 May 1998 05:25:40 GMT, Mark Graybill <sau...@mindsync.com>
wrote:
>I've heard of a killer combo using an En-Kor with a Mogg Maniac while a
>Furnace of Rath is in play, but it doesn't make sense to me. The idea is
>that say, 1 damage is assigned to an En-Kor, which redirects it to
>itself, doubling to 2 damage, redirected to itself again ad nauseum
>until you've got a Googelplex of damage at which point it is redirected
>to the Mogg Maniac, doing a Googelplex of damage to target opponent.
Yes, but if you're trying this in a tournament, please limit yourself
to nice small numbers, like 10.000 or so.
>Why this doesn't make sense to me is that the En-Kor is redirecting
>damage one at a time,
Yes.
>so it appears that the En-Kor would first redirect one damage of the
>Googelplex damage to the Mogg Maniac, doubling to two damage thanks to
>the Furnace,
Yes. (Note that you just re_assign_ damage here. You're remaining in
the damage prevention step, no damage gets dealt.)
> triggering its ability to do two damage to target opponent,
No. The goblin's ability is only triggered when the damage actually
gets dealt. You'Re just
> damage prevention step ensues,
No. You already _are_ in that damage prevention step.
>assume no damage prevention,
Hm? But you're playing those many damage redirection effects in here,
otherwise the damage would remain on the en-Kor...
>Maniac takes damage equal to or greater than toughness and goes to
>graveyard.
No, it doesn't. All the damage will become dealt simultaneously - why
should redirecting the damage "rip it apart" and cause it to arrive
one by one?
You're in a damage prevention step. There is some damage assigned to
your en-Kor. You may redirect damage from the en-Kor to the Mogg
Maniac, which _assigns_ it to the goblin.
>Now the En-Kor still has Googelplex minus one damage
>to deal with.
No. It won't receive any actual damage until the damage prevention
step ends.
>Is there something wrong with my thinking? Does the damage all get
>assigned together even though it is redirected one damage at a time?
Sure, the damage gets _dealt_ all together at the end of the damage
prevention step.
Ingo Kemper
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David DeLaney
Mark Graybill <sau...@mindsync.com> writes:
>I've heard of a killer combo using an En-Kor with a Mogg Maniac while a
>Furnace of Rath is in play, but it doesn't make sense to me. The idea is
>that say, 1 damage is assigned to an En-Kor, which redirects it to
>itself, doubling to 2 damage, redirected to itself again ad nauseum
>until you've got a Googelplex of damage at which point it is redirected
>to the Mogg Maniac, doing a Googelplex of damage to target opponent.
Yep.
Of course, you have to redirect it one point at a time ... but you're
allowed to play as many damage-prevention and damage-redirection spells
or abilities as you like _during_ a damage-prevention step ... before the
step ends and the damage becomes _dealt_ to wherever it ended up.
>Why this doesn't make sense to me is that the En-Kor is redirecting
>damage one at a time, so it appears that the En-Kor would first redirect
>one damage of the Googelplex damage to the Mogg Maniac, doubling to two
>damage thanks to the Furnace,
Yep.
>triggering its ability to do two damage to
>target opponent,
Nope. That can't trigger until the damage is _dealt_, and that won't
happen until damage-prevention step ... which you're currently in the
middle of ... _ends_.
>damage prevention step ensues,
?? You're already _in_ one. They don't "nest" or anything; any new damage
produced _during_ a given d-p step is coped with in that same step.
>Is there something wrong with my thinking? Does the damage all get
>assigned together even though it is redirected one damage at a time?
You are assuming, for some reason, that this is happening _outside of_
a damage-prevention step to start with.
That can't happen; abilities that prevent or redirect damage can only
be used _inside_ a damage-prevention step. Not "any time".
Dave
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Mike Marcelais
Mark Graybill <sau...@mindsync.com> wrote in message
3564F17E...@mindsync.com...
>I've heard of a killer combo using an En-Kor with a Mogg Maniac while a
>Furnace of Rath is in play, but it doesn't make sense to me. The idea is
>that say, 1 damage is assigned to an En-Kor, which redirects it to
>itself, doubling to 2 damage, redirected to itself again ad nauseum
>until you've got a Googelplex of damage at which point it is redirected
>to the Mogg Maniac, doing a Googelplex of damage to target opponent.
Yes. [Actually, since you can only redirect damage one point at a time; the
damage grows one point at a time. But it can still get quite large.]
>
>Why this doesn't make sense to me is that the En-Kor is redirecting
>damage one at a time, so it appears that the En-Kor would first redirect
>one damage of the Googelplex damage to the Mogg Maniac, doubling to two
>damage thanks to the Furnace, triggering its ability to do two damage to
>target opponent, damage prevention step ensues, assume no damage
>prevention, Maniac takes damage equal to or greater than toughness and
>goes to graveyard. Now the En-Kor still has Googelplex minus one damage
>to deal with.
Nope -- thats not how it works at all. First something assigns damage to the
En-Kor and a damage prevention step starts. Within that damage prevention
step, you use the en-Kor's ability to redirect damage around (which causes more
doubling), but you are still in a damage prevention step for that damage. When
you are finally finished doing everything you want to do to the damage, then
the damage prevention step ends, the damage becomes sucessfully dealt, the
Mogg's ability triggers on all of the damage that was dealt to it, it does, and
its ability goes off.
Basically, damage can never kill anything until the damage prevention step for
that damage ends, and redirecting damage around won't automatically end the
damage prevention step. [And you can't redirect the damage around until you
are in the damage prevention step, because the only time that damage prevention
and redirection are legal is _during_ a damage prevention step.]
============================================================
Mike Marcelais mich...@microsoft.com Magic Rules Guru
Visit the Marcelais System, Hughes Quadrant, Argent Sector
[My posts are my own opinions; I don't speak for Microsoft.]
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