Pestilence and Protection from Black

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Christian Luehrs

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Oct 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/11/97
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Hello!

Someone told me his protection from black creature wouldn't suffer
from Pestilence and the new Tempest card Death Pits of Rath
(Enchantment: Whenever any creature is dealt damage,destroy it.).

I guess that's wrong, because Pestilence and Death Pits are not
targeted, right?

Thanks

Christian


Joachim Tabaczek

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Oct 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/11/97
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Neither Pestilence nor Death Pits of Rath are targetted, right. But
protection doesn't just prevent targetting; it also reduces all damage
of the appropriate colour to 0. Pestilence will _assign_ damage to a
creature with protection from black, but the damage will be promptly
reduced to 0. Likewise, a black source assigning damage to such a
creature won't trigger the Death Pits, since the damage is never
successfully dealt. [Damage from a nonblack source _will_ trigger
the Pits, which _will_ then bury the creature; so Someone is at least
half wrong.]

Joachim

Phaedrus

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Oct 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/11/97
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In article <61nhdq$sj2$1...@rks1.urz.tu-dresden.de>,

Christian Luehrs <lue...@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de> wrote:
>Someone told me his protection from black creature wouldn't suffer
>from Pestilence and the new Tempest card Death Pits of Rath
>(Enchantment: Whenever any creature is dealt damage,destroy it.).
>
>I guess that's wrong, because Pestilence and Death Pits are not
>targeted, right?

You're half-right.
Protection from <color> does three things: It prevents the creature from
being targeted by <color> things; it prevents the creature from being blocked
by <color> creatures; and it reduces all <color> damage to zero.
You're right; Pestilence and Death Pits aren't targeted. Death Pits
will destroy a creature with protection from black. Pestilence will assign
damage to a creature with protection from black. However, that damage will
immediately be reduced to zero by that protection. So, effectively, Pestilence
doesn't work; Death Pits of Rath does.
--
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Ingo Kemper

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Oct 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/11/97
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On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:55:02 GMT, lue...@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de
(Christian Luehrs) wrote:

>Hello!


>
>Someone told me his protection from black creature wouldn't suffer
>from Pestilence and the new Tempest card Death Pits of Rath
>(Enchantment: Whenever any creature is dealt damage,destroy it.).
>
>I guess that's wrong, because Pestilence and Death Pits are not
>targeted, right?

Yes, but Protection from Black still reduces damage from black sources
to zero, so a creature with that protection cannot be killed by
Pestilence; if a black source tries to damage that creature it won't
be destroyed by Death Pits of Rath either, because such effects
usually trigger on _successfully dealt_ damage (which refers to the
end of the damage prevention step, at which time the damage has been
prevented).


Ingo Kemper
--
__ _ __ __ __ __
__/ /_/ \/ /_/____/_ |___Sky...@uni-muenster.de___---===> \
/_/ /_/\_/ |__/ |__/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---===>__/

kenneth tickner

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Oct 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/12/97
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Christian Luehrs wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> Someone told me his protection from black creature wouldn't suffer
> from Pestilence and the new Tempest card Death Pits of Rath
> (Enchantment: Whenever any creature is dealt damage,destroy it.).
>
> I guess that's wrong, because Pestilence and Death Pits are not
> targeted, right?
>
> Thanks
>
> Christian

pestilence deals damage to his prot-black-creature, but it is reduced to
0. the question is: is damage considered dealt? if yes, death pits of
rath will trigger and destroy it.

--
- kenneth tickner

Brian Kofford

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Oct 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/12/97
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kenneth tickner wrote in message <34412F...@sn.no>...


|pestilence deals damage to his prot-black-creature, but it is reduced to
|0. the question is: is damage considered dealt? if yes, death pits of
|rath will trigger and destroy it.
|
|--
|- kenneth tickner

From 5E rule book
"For example, if a creature has protection from blue:
blue creatures can't be assigned to block it;
all damage dealt to it by blue sources is reduced to 0;
it can't be the target of blue spells, abilities, or enchantments"

If the damage isn't dealt, how would it be reduced to zero?
-ed

Krooz

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Oct 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/13/97
to Christian Luehrs

Christian Luehrs wrote:

> Hello!
>
> Someone told me his protection from black creature wouldn't suffer
> from Pestilence and the new Tempest card Death Pits of Rath
> (Enchantment: Whenever any creature is dealt damage,destroy it.).
>
> I guess that's wrong, because Pestilence and Death Pits are not
> targeted, right?

Your creature will still be dealt damage from the pestilence as it is
not targetted but its protection reduces this damage to zero. so a
pestilence alone can not kill that creature. however the death pits
triggers when a creature is dealt damage and since the pestilence deals
damage to that creature, and since the death pits are not targetted the
creature dies from the death pits.

--
*********************************************************
* KROOZ * Email: Special_A...@thepentagon.com *
******** URL: http://alpha7.curtin.edu.au/~ehau *
******************************************************

Phaedrus

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Oct 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/13/97
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In article <61s65u$l3u$1...@herald.Mines.EDU>,

Brian Kofford <bkof...@mines.edu> wrote:
>kenneth tickner wrote in message <34412F...@sn.no>...
>|pestilence deals damage to his prot-black-creature, but it is reduced to
>|0. the question is: is damage considered dealt? if yes, death pits of
>|rath will trigger and destroy it.
>From 5E rule book
>"For example, if a creature has protection from blue:
> blue creatures can't be assigned to block it;
> all damage dealt to it by blue sources is reduced to 0;
> it can't be the target of blue spells, abilities, or enchantments"
>
>If the damage isn't dealt, how would it be reduced to zero?

Unfortunately, Magic cards, and even the rulebook in some places, use
the words "assigned" and "dealt" interchangably.
The damage reduction due to protection from (whatever) is automatic--
so it happens at the start of the damage prevention step, before normal
damage prevention abilities can be used. So that rulebook section should
really read "all damage _assigned_ to it by blue sources is reduced to zero."
In general, whenever card effects talk about doing something when
damage is dealt--Death Pits of Rath's destruction, Hypnotic Specter's discard,
etc.--they're talking about damage being _successfully_ dealt. That happens
at the end of the damage prevention step, after damage prevention spells and
abilities are used. And if the damage is completely prevented or redirected
away during the damage prevention step, then no damage is ever "successfully
dealt" to that creature; so none of the "If damage is dealt, do this" abilities
will trigger for that creature.
The practical upshot of all this: If a creature with protection from
black is around when Pestilence goes off, damage gets assigned to it. But
that damage gets reduced to zero; so none of it is successfully dealt; so
Death Pits won't destroy that creature.

kenneth tickner

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Oct 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/14/97
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Brian Kofford wrote:
>
> kenneth tickner wrote in message <34412F...@sn.no>...
> |pestilence deals damage to his prot-black-creature, but it is reduced to
> |0. the question is: is damage considered dealt? if yes, death pits of
> |rath will trigger and destroy it.
> |
> |--
> |- kenneth tickner

>
> From 5E rule book
> "For example, if a creature has protection from blue:
> blue creatures can't be assigned to block it;
> all damage dealt to it by blue sources is reduced to 0;
> it can't be the target of blue spells, abilities, or enchantments"
>
> If the damage isn't dealt, how would it be reduced to zero?
> -ed

damage "dealt" meaning "sucessfully dealt" will trigger death pits of
rath. in this case no damage is succesfully dealt, and the pits wont
trigger.


--
- kenneth tickner

Finn E. Theodorsen

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Oct 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/14/97
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lue...@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de (Christian Luehrs) wrote:

>Hello!

>Someone told me his protection from black creature wouldn't suffer
>from Pestilence and the new Tempest card Death Pits of Rath
>(Enchantment: Whenever any creature is dealt damage,destroy it.).

>I guess that's wrong, because Pestilence and Death Pits are not
>targeted, right?

Right! But the pestilence damage is reduced to zero because
of the protection after it smacks into the knight, so it isnt dealt
any damage. Damage from non black sources will still trigger
the pits and destroy the knight as it is nontargeted.

Finn E. Theodorsen///the...@danbbs.dk///AtCbM///Legend#219605
Homepage: http://www.danbbs.dk/~finnet/index.htm


David DeLaney

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Oct 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/15/97
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lue...@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de (Christian Luehrs) says:
>Someone told me his protection from black creature wouldn't suffer
>from Pestilence and the new Tempest card Death Pits of Rath
>(Enchantment: Whenever any creature is dealt damage,destroy it.).

He's half-right. Pestilence can't hurt it, because its protection from
black will reduce any black _damage_ assigned to it to zero.

If it takes damage that's not black, though, and Death Pits are in play,
Death Pits will happily destroy it without regeneration... because this
effect does not target, enchant, block, or damage the creature. It just
destroys it, and forbids regeneration. [If it takes _black_ damage, the
PfBlack will reduce the black damage to zero before it gets "dealt", so
Death Pits won't have anything to trigger off of.]

Dave
--
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It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
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David Sachs

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Oct 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/15/97
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[Someone told me his protection from black creature
wouldn't
suffer from Pestilence and the new Tempest card Death Pits of
Rath (Enchantment: Whenever any creature is dealt a À^æ Archive-name:
damage,destroye
it.).e

I guess that's wrong, because Pestilence and Death Pits are f
notu
targeted, right?]o

Pestilance - No because it causes damage and the protection from
Blacke reduces the damage to zero.d P/æ >: Aftershock Sorcery 2RR

Death Pits or Rath - Very definitely YES. Their effect is neither
targetted nor causing damage, so the protected creature dies.t

--
** The Klingon's favorite food was named by the first earthling
to see it. **
David Sachs - sa...@fnal.fnal.gov

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