Dence Folaige and Creature enchantments
Dennis Aubel
Well, my opp. has DF and i have yavamaya wurm (6/4 trample)
Can i play the creature enchantment rancor on it?
In fact, my wurm is the target of rancors ability, not the spell himself?
I am going crazy right now, so please help me, remember old cards wich say,
When ### comes into play, choose target creature, creature ##### enchants
gets ................ etc.
Tanx a lot, Dennis
Laurie Cheers
Well, you can't _cast_ Rancor on the creature now. Dense Foliage says the
creature can't be the target of spells, and whenever you're playing non-land
cards from your hand, they're spells.
However, Rancors that were _already_ sitting on the Wurm, before Dense
Foliage was played, don't fall off now. They're enchantments now, not
spells- so they're not affected by things that look for spells.
Hope that helps.
--
Laurie Cheers
(posting via Remarq because I've completely given up on my local news
server...)
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Stephen Cornelius
rancor on any creature, as the declaration of the spell, which could be
phrased in a verbose form "I cast the spell Rancor, target Yavamaya Wurm" is
clearly not allowed.
- Steve C
Note however that if the Rancor was already on the Wurm it would stay there,
as once it is in play it is no longer a spell.
Also put into play effects like Show and Tell can get around the Foliage, as
the permanents are put into play, are not cast and are thus never spells.
Dennis Aubel <dau...@worldonline.nl> wrote in message
news:7fuubt$eeo$1...@news.worldonline.nl...
Maarten van Beek
> Dence Folaige reads: "Creatures cannot be the target of spells"
>
> Well, my opp. has DF and i have yavamaya wurm (6/4 trample)
> Can i play the creature enchantment rancor on it?
No. It is a spell.
> In fact, my wurm is the target of rancors ability, not the spell himself?
At first, it is the target of the spell that will put the enchantment into play
on your Wurm.
Maarten van Beek
mailto:sp...@blacklotus.demon.nl
Laurie Cheers
> Also put into play effects like Show and Tell can get around the
> Foliage, as the permanents are put into play, are not cast and are
> thus never spells.
Hey, er... can you actually use Show and Tell to put a local enchantment
into play? I thought it would appear, realise it had no target, and be
buried (or whatever), as if its target had vanished... is that wrong?
The rulings files don't say.
--
Laurie Cheers
Ingo Kemper
<dau...@worldonline.nl> wrote:
>Dence Folaige reads: "Creatures cannot be the target of spells"
>
>Well, my opp. has DF and i have yavamaya wurm (6/4 trample)
>Can i play the creature enchantment rancor on it?
No. Rancor is a targeted spell while being cast. (A Rancor already in
play wouldn't be affected because it's no longer a spell.)
>In fact, my wurm is the target of rancors ability, not the spell himself?
No, Rancor's abilities do not target the enchanted creature. The
enchantment (a permanent) targets the enchantee while in play, but
it's also a targeted spell while being cast.
>I am going crazy right now, so please help me, remember old cards wich say,
>When ### comes into play, choose target creature, creature ##### enchants
>gets ................ etc.
Those old cards were worded rather awkwardly because the Wizards tried
to put the word "target" on all targeted cards. It worked rather well
except for local enchantments that now say "enchanted ...". Rancor is
a targeted spell and continues to target the creature it's on once
it's in play (so protection from green would cause it to "fall off"),
but its abilities do not target the enchanted creature.
Ingo Kemper
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Ingo Kemper
wrote:
>Hey, er... can you actually use Show and Tell to put a local enchantment
>into play?
Yes, you can, provided that you put it onto a permanent that was
already in play. (For example, you could put a Binding Grasp on one of
your opponent's other creatures. But you couldn't put it onto a
creature your opponent put into play with Show and Tell.)
>I thought it would appear, realise it had no target, and be
>buried (or whatever), as if its target had vanished... is that wrong?
You may choose a target for the local enchantment when you put it into
play.
David DeLaney
dau...@worldonline.nl (Dennis Aubel) says:
>Dence Folaige reads: "Creatures cannot be the target of spells"
>
>Well, my opp. has DF and i have yavamaya wurm (6/4 trample)
>Can i play the creature enchantment rancor on it?
No; your creature cannot be the target of your enchant-creature spell.
If there's a Rancor already in play, you may _move_ it onto your Wurm with
Crown of the Ages or Enchantment Alteration, but your creature, because of Dense
Foliage, cannot be targetted by your spells.
>In fact, my wurm is the target of rancors ability, not the spell himself?
No. Enchantment +spells+ that make local enchantments are targetted spells,
targetting the permanent the enchantment will enchant. Once the enchantment
is in +play+, its abilities do not _target_ the creature it's on at all -
the "gets +2/+0" and "gains Trample+ will _not_ target enchanted creature
in any way. [The enchantment _itself_ will, but once it's in play it
is not a spell and does not target through an _ability_ - it just targets its
enchantee directly, as an_enchantment enchanting it.]
>I am going crazy right now, so please help me, remember old cards wich say,
>When ### comes into play, choose target creature, creature ##### enchants
>gets ................ etc.
Those were Badly Worded. Present-day cards do not need to say the first
two phrases [and the first one is _wrong_ - the target is chosen when the
spell is _announced_]. The _rulebook_ says that local enchhantments,
when cast as a spell, have to choose a legal target.
Dave
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It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to se
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http://panacea.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K
David DeLaney
lrc...@york.ac.uk (Laurie Cheers) says:
>Stephen Cornelius wrote:
>> Also put into play effects like Show and Tell can get around the
>> Foliage, as the permanents are put into play, are not cast and are
>> thus never spells.
>
>into play?
Sure, as long as you put it into play sitting on a legal target.
>I thought it would appear, realise it had no target, and be
>buried (or whatever), as if its target had vanished... is that wrong?
That can't happen - you have to pick a target for the local enchantment, or
it can't come into play in the first place. [When cast as a spell,
it has already picked a target when the spell was announced. When put
directly into play, you have to in addition pick a legal target...]
>The rulings files don't say.
G.31.4 - If a card requires a target when played, and that card is put into
play without playing it, then you must choose a target at the time it is
put into play. [Aahz 02/16/97] If there is no legal target, then the
card stays where it is and does not get put into play. [bethmo 05/02/98]
For example, Clone requires a choice of a target creature just before
it enters play. And if there is no creature to target it cannot come
into play.
[This applies to local enchantment spells, which are always targetted, just as
it does to the targetted copy cards.]