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Takklemaggot + Deadly Insect

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Joost Vunderink

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Mar 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/25/97
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Hi there!

I know that you can move an enchanment from a creature to a Deadly Insect
using Crown of the Ages.
But what happens if I have a creature with a Takklemaggot on it and my
opponent has a Dealy Insect? My creature dies, can I now move the Takkle
to the Insect? Please email the reply to jvu...@cs.vu.nl

Thanks,

Joost.
--
/ Joost Vunderink, Physics student, Free University of Amsterdam \
/ Garion on dics: telnet dics.dds.nl 5000 \
/ [dics == Dutch Internet Chess Server] \
/ There needs to be an inteligent quote here. \

Kyle Nishioka

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Mar 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/26/97
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Joost Vunderink (jvu...@cs.vu.nl) wrote:
: Hi there!

: I know that you can move an enchanment from a creature to a Deadly Insect
: using Crown of the Ages.
: But what happens if I have a creature with a Takklemaggot on it and my
: opponent has a Dealy Insect? My creature dies, can I now move the Takkle
: to the Insect? Please email the reply to jvu...@cs.vu.nl

You can move the 'maggot onto the DI. The Takklemaggot's movement comes
under the same ruling as the Crown.

--
Kyle
nk...@hawaii.edu

#include <std_disclaimer.h>
#include <blue_ribbon>


David DeLaney

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Mar 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/28/97
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In article <5h8cv8$g...@star.cs.vu.nl> jvu...@cs.vu.nl (Joost Vunderink) writes:
>I know that you can move an enchanment from a creature to a Deadly Insect
>using Crown of the Ages.
>But what happens if I have a creature with a Takklemaggot on it and my
>opponent has a Dealy Insect? My creature dies, can I now move the Takkle
>to the Insect?

If your creature dies, the Takk enchantment moves itself. It can perfectly well
move itself to a Deadly Insect; nothing stops the Insect from being
targetted by an enchantment in play. [You couldn't move it with the Crown
unless you did so _before_ the creature died.]

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://enigma.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

Joachim Tabaczek

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Mar 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/31/97
to Joost Vunderink

In article <5h8cv8$g...@star.cs.vu.nl>, jvu...@cs.vu.nl (Joost Vunderink) writes:
|> Hi there!

|>
|> I know that you can move an enchanment from a creature to a Deadly Insect
|> using Crown of the Ages.
|> But what happens if I have a creature with a Takklemaggot on it and my
|> opponent has a Dealy Insect? My creature dies, can I now move the Takkle
|> to the Insect?

Yes. For the same reason that moving it with the Crown works.

Joachim

Brian Kofford

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Apr 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/2/97
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--
-----------------------------
Please do not reply by E-mail
-----------------------------

Joachim Tabaczek <taba...@physik.uni-bielefeld.de> wrote in article
<E7x2E...@hermes.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de>...

NO. Crown of the Ages targets the Enchantment, not the creature.
Takklemaggot targets the creature and, therefore, cannot be moved to the
Deadly Insect using its ability. however, you can move Takklemaggot onto
the creature using Crown of the Ages.
-ed

Ingo Warnke

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Apr 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/2/97
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Brian Kofford (bkof...@mines.edu) wrote:


: NO. Crown of the Ages targets the Enchantment, not the creature.


: Takklemaggot targets the creature and, therefore, cannot be moved to the
: Deadly Insect using its ability.

Takklemaggot targets its enchantee like any other local enchantment does:
from permanent to permanent. The movement effect of the Taklemaggot is
itself not targeted (just like the Crown's effect is not targeted at the
new enchantee), so the Takkelmaggot can itself move to a Deadly Inset.

Ingo Warnke

Kyle Nishioka

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Apr 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/2/97
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Brian Kofford (bkof...@mines.edu) wrote:

: NO. Crown of the Ages targets the Enchantment, not the creature.
: Takklemaggot targets the creature and, therefore, cannot be moved to the

: Deadly Insect using its ability. however, you can move Takklemaggot onto


: the creature using Crown of the Ages.

From Stephen D'Angelo's ruling summaries:
Moving Takklemaggot is not considered to be a spell or effect, so it can
be moved onto creatures which cannot be targeted by spells and effects
(such as Autumn Willow). [Duelist Magazine #10, Page 44] See the
"Moving Enchantments" entry in the General Rulings.

I'm guessing that the quote is in reference to the Takklemaggot's movement
and not some external, but it looks like any type of movement does not
target the creature.

Gerald Feuerhelm

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Apr 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/3/97
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"Brian Kofford" <bkof...@mines.edu> wrote:

>| |> I know that you can move an enchanment from a creature to a Deadly
>Insect

>| |> using Crown of the Ages.

>| |> But what happens if I have a creature with a Takklemaggot on it and
my
>| |> opponent has a Dealy Insect? My creature dies, can I now move the
>Takkle
>| |> to the Insect?
>|
>| Yes. For the same reason that moving it with the Crown works.

>NO. Crown of the Ages targets the Enchantment, not the creature.


>Takklemaggot targets the creature and, therefore, cannot be moved to
the
>Deadly Insect using its ability. however, you can move Takklemaggot
onto
>the creature using Crown of the Ages.

No, Takklemaggot is a moving enchantment and works just like an
enchantment moved by the Crown. They both get onto the insect because:
"Moving Takklemaggot" (or another enchantment via Crown) "is not

considered to be a spell or effect, so it can be moved onto creatures
which cannot be targeted by spells and effects (such as Autumn Willow).
[Duelist Magazine #10, Page 44]"

-
Jared Feuerhelm


Joachim Tabaczek

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97
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In article <01bc3efb$74e661a0$6748...@bradford103.reshalls.mines.edu>, bkof...@mines.edu (Brian Kofford) writes:
|> | |> I know that you can move an enchanment from a creature to a Deadly
|> Insect
|> | |> using Crown of the Ages.
|> | |> But what happens if I have a creature with a Takklemaggot on it and my
|> | |> opponent has a Dealy Insect? My creature dies, can I now move the
|> Takkle
|> | |> to the Insect?
|> |
|> | Yes. For the same reason that moving it with the Crown works.
|>
|> NO. Crown of the Ages targets the Enchantment, not the creature.
|> Takklemaggot targets the creature and, therefore, cannot be moved to the
|> Deadly Insect using its ability. however, you can move Takklemaggot onto
|> the creature using Crown of the Ages.

Takklemaggot targets the creature, yes, but _it is not a spell or effect_.
It's a permanent, and as such it can target a Deadly Insect just fine.
Same with the Crown: the Crown's effect targets only the enchantment; the
only thing actually targetting the Deadly Insect is the enchantment being
moved, which is neither a spell nor an effect.

Joachim

Dani Rodriguez

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97
to

And what about 'maggot to a creature with protection from black?
does it move to them, and deals no damage?

############################################
# Daniel Rodriguez Millan #
# rodr...@cs.us.es #
# Facultad de Informatica y Estadistica #
# Sevilla , Espa#a #
############################################

Joachim Tabaczek

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Apr 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/9/97
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In article <5id4n2$75k$1...@erika.cica.es>, rodr...@cs.us.es (Dani Rodriguez) writes:
|>
|> And what about 'maggot to a creature with protection from black?
|> does it move to them, and deals no damage?

You can't do that, since Takklemaggot can only be moved to a _legal_
new target. A creature with protection from black is not a legal target.

Joachim

Chris Mattern

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Apr 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/9/97
to Dani Rodriguez

Dani Rodriguez wrote:
>
> And what about 'maggot to a creature with protection from black?
> does it move to them, and deals no damage?
>
Well, Takklemaggot never deals damage to creatures in the first place.
However, it cannot be moved to a creature with protection from black,
because by the definition of protection, it is not a legal target for
black enchantments. Note that this is different from Deadly Insects
and creatures with similar "don't target me" templates, as they do not
have any rule text saying that they can't be targetted by enchantments.
Nor can you Crown of Ages or Enchantment Alteration an enchantment
onto a creature with protection from the color of the enchantment.

Chris Mattern

David Wintheiser

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Apr 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/13/97
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> Dani Rodriguez wrote:
>
> And what about 'maggot to a creature with protection from
> black?
> does it move to them, and deals no damage?
>
Takklemaggot doesn't deal damage, it assigns counters, which by itself
would not be prevented by Protection from Black.

However, Protection from Black is not the same thing as the Deadly
Insect's ability. The 'Maggot will continually check to ensure that its
target is legal, but nothing in the Insect's ability would make it
illegal for the 'Maggot--it cannot be the target of spells or effects,
but the 'Maggot is a permanent, and its placing of counters is not an
effect, it's an ability. The 'Maggot, on the other hand, would notice
that the Protection from Black creature is illegal.

My question is, would the 'Maggot notice this before being placed on the
creature with Protection from Black, which means it would have to choose
another target or become a global enchantment, or after being placed on
the creature with Protection from Black, in which case it would "slide"
off into the graveyard?


David Wintheiser

Rule #9: Good intentions make poor painkillers.

Ingo Warnke

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Apr 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/14/97
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David Wintheiser (dwin...@isd.net) wrote:

: However, Protection from Black is not the same thing as the Deadly


: Insect's ability. The 'Maggot will continually check to ensure that its
: target is legal, but nothing in the Insect's ability would make it
: illegal for the 'Maggot--it cannot be the target of spells or effects,
: but the 'Maggot is a permanent, and its placing of counters is not an
: effect, it's an ability. The 'Maggot, on the other hand, would notice
: that the Protection from Black creature is illegal.

: My question is, would the 'Maggot notice this before being placed on the
: creature with Protection from Black, which means it would have to choose
: another target or become a global enchantment, or after being placed on
: the creature with Protection from Black, in which case it would "slide"
: off into the graveyard?

A Pro. f. Black creature is not a legal target for the (black) Takklemaggot.
So it can not be choosen as the TM's next enchantee.

Ingo Warnke

Ingo Kemper

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Apr 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/14/97
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On Sun, 13 Apr 1997 21:44:33 -0500, David Wintheiser
<dwin...@isd.net> wrote:

>My question is, would the 'Maggot notice this before being placed on the
>creature with Protection from Black, which means it would have to choose
>another target or become a global enchantment, or after being placed on
>the creature with Protection from Black, in which case it would "slide"
>off into the graveyard?

Yes. A creature with Protection from Black is no legal target for the
Maggot to move on, so the enchantment has to be moved to another
target. If there are only creatures with Protection from Black in play
it will move to the player whose creature it enchanted last.

__ _ __ __ __ __
__/ /_/ \/ /_/____/_ |___Sky...@uni-muenster.de___---===> \
/_/ /_/\_/ |__/ |__/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---===>__/

David DeLaney

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Apr 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/14/97
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David.Wi...@ActiveSoftware.com writes:
>My question is, would the 'Maggot notice this before being placed on the
>creature with Protection from Black, which means it would have to choose
>another target or become a global enchantment, or after being placed on
>the creature with Protection from Black, in which case it would "slide"
>off into the graveyard?

You can't place a Takklemaggot on a creature with PfBlack at all, since it's
not a legal target for black enchantments.

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