City of Traitors and Rith's Grove
Martin Golm
Land
When you play another land, sacrifice City of Traitors.
T: Add two colorless mana to your mana pool.
Rith's Grove
Land
Rith's Grove is a Lair in addition to its land type.
When Rith's Grove comes into play, sacrifice it unless you return a
non-Lair land you control to its owner's hand.
T: Add R, G, or W to your mana pool.
My question now is: If I have City of Traitors in play, and I play
Rith's Grove, do I have to sacrifice the City or can I return it to my
hand?
I think I can return it to my hand, because Rith's Grove's triggered
ability resolves first. Am I right?
Thanks,
Martin
Steve Lord
On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Martin Golm wrote:
> City of Traitors
> Land
> When you play another land, sacrifice City of Traitors.
> T: Add two colorless mana to your mana pool.
>
> Rith's Grove
> Land
> Rith's Grove is a Lair in addition to its land type.
> When Rith's Grove comes into play, sacrifice it unless you return a
> non-Lair land you control to its owner's hand.
> T: Add R, G, or W to your mana pool.
>
>
> My question now is: If I have City of Traitors in play, and I play
> Rith's Grove, do I have to sacrifice the City or can I return it to my
> hand?
You can do either.
> I think I can return it to my hand, because Rith's Grove's triggered
> ability resolves first. Am I right?
It depends. Which one did you put on the stack first?
Both trigger when you play the Grove. Since you control both triggered
abilities, you choose the order in which they are placed on the stack. If
you put the City ability on the stack first, then the Grove can bounce it
and when the City triggered ability resolves, it wil do nothing.
Steve L
Martin Golm
Well, I played that at a local tournament last Sunday. I tapped the City
and put its mana to my mana pool. Then I played Rith's Grove and told my
opponent, that I put the City's ability (sacrificing) on the stack, and
afterwards put Rith's Grove's ability (return a non-Lair land to owners
-- my -- hand) on the stack. My opponent called the judge. He ruled that
I have to sacrifice the City (similar to the Visions lands like Dormant
Volcano), and that I have to return another land to my hand because the
city isn't there anymore. So, obviously he was wrong -- which cost me
the game :(
Martin
Steve Lord
Legal.
> My opponent called the judge. He ruled that I have to sacrifice the
> City (similar to the Visions lands like Dormant Volcano), and that I
> have to return another land to my hand because the city isn't there
> anymore. So, obviously he was wrong -- which cost me the game :(
Bad judge! He was remembering incorrectly.
Dormant Volcano
Land
If Dormant Volcano would come into play, return an untapped mountain you
control to its owner's hand instead. If you do, put Dormant Volcano into
play tapped. If you don't, put it into its owner's graveyard.
T: Add R and one colorless mana to your mana pool.
DV requires you to bounce the land before the DV comes into play, or it
doesn't come into play. The City has a plain old triggered ability, and
is handled exactly like any other triggered nonmana ability.
Steve L
Jeff Vondruska
> Land
> When you play another land, sacrifice City of Traitors.
> T: Add two colorless mana to your mana pool.
>
> Rith's Grove
> Land
> Rith's Grove is a Lair in addition to its land type.
> When Rith's Grove comes into play, sacrifice it unless you return a
> non-Lair land you control to its owner's hand.
> T: Add R, G, or W to your mana pool.
>
>
> My question now is: If I have City of Traitors in play, and I play
> Rith's Grove, do I have to sacrifice the City or can I return it to my
> hand?
Your choice. The two triggered abilities will trigger at the same time.
Since they are both controlled by the same player (you), you get to choose
which one goes on the stack first. Usually, it's a good idea to put the
City's ability on the stack first, then the Grove's ability, so that the
Grove's ability will resolve first and bounce the City.
> I think I can return it to my hand, because Rith's Grove's triggered
> ability resolves first. Am I right?
The two abilities will trigger at the same time. Playing a land is a special
action. It doesn't use the stack, so playing a land and having that land
come into play is the same thing. City of Traitors triggers off of you
playing a land, Rith's Grove triggers off of it coming into play. These will
both trigger at the same time, allowing you to choose their order.
--
Jeff Vondruska
AM Stephenson
The key to this problem is that playing a land consists of the one action
of putting a land into play; there's no space inbetween the two events.
Even if there were, nobody would get priority there anyway (you don't get
to respond to a land being played.) So, things that trigger from putting
a land into play, and things that trigger from a land being played, all
wait until after the land is in play before being put onto the stack, and
if you control them all (which you do in this case) you can put them on
the stack in the order of your choice.
The Dormant Volcano is different:
Dormant Volcano Land
Dormant Volcano comes into play tapped.
If Dormant Volcano would come into play, return an untapped mountain
you control to its owner's hand instead. If you do, put Dormant
Volcano into play. If you don't, put it into its owner's graveyard.
T: Add R and one colorless mana to your mana pool.
Here, there's a replacement affecting the comes into play event, altering
what happens when you play it. Playing this card will trigger the City
of Traitors regardless of whether it gets into play or not.
--
------
.alan.
Jeff Vondruska
"Martin Golm" <Entwi...@reico.de> wrote in message
news:3ACB2043...@reico.de...
Bad judge. You can't blame your opponent for calling a judge, though. This
one is a little deeper than normal.
--
Jeff Vondruska
David DeLaney
>City of Traitors Land
>When you play another land, sacrifice City of Traitors.
>T: Add two colorless mana to your mana pool.
>
>Rith's Grove Land
>Rith's Grove is a Lair in addition to its land type.
>When Rith's Grove comes into play, sacrifice it unless you return a
>non-Lair land you control to its owner's hand.
>T: Add R, G, or W to your mana pool.
If you control both, you may order their triggered abilities on the stack
as you like if you play Rith's Grove second. So may put Rith's on top,
and bounce the City before you'd have to sacrifice it.
>My question now is: If I have City of Traitors in play, and I play
>Rith's Grove, do I have to sacrifice the City or can I return it to my
>hand?
You choose, by choosing the order the triggered abilities you control go onto
the stack in.
>I think I can return it to my hand, because Rith's Grove's triggered
>ability resolves first. Am I right?
Half-right; you may _choose_ to have that happen. You may also choose to
put them on the stack the other way up, and sac the City before Rith's Grove
makes you bounce a nonLair land.
Dave
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