Relic Barrier and the Howling Mine
Thomas R Wylie
Steven Lim <cw...@temasek.teleview.com.sg> wrote:
>I have been using this particular strategy of using my Relic Barrier to
>Tap my Howling Mine to prevent my opponent from drawing 2 cards on his
>draw phase. However someone recently told me that there was a ruling by
>WOTC that says that I am only allowed to tap my opponent's Artifacts.
There has been no such ruling. Perhaps they were thinking of
Hyperion Blacksmith?
Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
David DeLaney
>Q for Tom: When an artifact is tapped (something `continuous' like Armageddon
>Clock, for example) what all stops working?
All the text on it.
>If Arm. Clock is tapped, can someone spend four mana during upkeep to remove a
>counter, or is that ability turned off as well?
That's turned off as well. It cannot gain counters if it is tapped when you
deal with its "gain-a-counter-during-upkeep" effect, and people cannot remove
counters when it's tapped. (Generally, though, it'll untap just before
upkeep phase - but if Stasis is in play, or if it's locked down by Gremlins,
it might start upkeep tapped.)
Seems to me that if the
>ability can happen "at any time" (like Merseine) then the ability is of the
>player and therefore valid. But if the ability can only happen at a certain
>time (upkeep) then it has something special to do with the `state' of the
>artifact at that time, and can't be used if the artifact is tapped. Like only
>being able to buy back counters for Clockwork Beast during upkeep.
Nope - if the artifact is tapped, you can't use any of the abilities the
text gives it. (Things that are *separate* from the artifact, like split-off
Tetravus counters, don't shut off when their main artifact is tapped, and
still know about the text relevant to them.) Thus a tapped Winter Orb
doesn't stop lands from untapping, a tapped Disk cannot be popped, a tapped
Armageddon Clock cannot gain or lose counters and cannot do damage at the end
of upkeep. (The only exception I'm aware of is text on how to untap an
artifact, such as Basalt Monolith's; obviously, this couldn't work *at all*
if it vanished when the artifact was tapped.)
Dave
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Scott J. Mark
Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>
>Steven Lim <cw...@temasek.teleview.com.sg> wrote:
>>I have been using this particular strategy of using my Relic Barrier to
>>Tap my Howling Mine to prevent my opponent from drawing 2 cards on his
>>draw phase. However someone recently told me that there was a ruling by
>>WOTC that says that I am only allowed to tap my opponent's Artifacts.
>
>There has been no such ruling. Perhaps they were thinking of
>Hyperion Blacksmith?
I bet they were thinking of Relic BIND, which only works on artifacts
controlled by the opponent (Duelist #2, according to the Rulings list),
as opposed to Relic BARRIER, which cannot target tapped artifacts (Aahz).
Q for Tom: When an artifact is tapped (something `continuous' like Armageddon
Clock, for example) what all stops working?
If Arm. Clock is tapped, can someone spend four mana during upkeep to remove a
counter, or is that ability turned off as well? Seems to me that if the
ability can happen "at any time" (like Merseine) then the ability is of the
player and therefore valid. But if the ability can only happen at a certain
time (upkeep) then it has something special to do with the `state' of the
artifact at that time, and can't be used if the artifact is tapped. Like only
being able to buy back counters for Clockwork Beast during upkeep.
I'll throw that up in the air. Like the creature-throwing giants, I don't
expect it to survive.
Scott
Scott
--
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at Columbus. *Nobody* laughed at Tesla.
Scott Mark (219) 262-7452 8:00 - 4:30 EST
s...@gordon.elk.miles.com
Scott Cokely
Scott J. Mark <s...@gordon.elk.miles.com> wrote:
>Q for Tom: When an artifact is tapped (something `continuous' like Armageddon
>Clock, for example) what all stops working?
>
>If Arm. Clock is tapped, can someone spend four mana during upkeep to remove a
>counter, or is that ability turned off as well?
This came up in a recent game, and it puzzles me too. The situation was that
my opponent lined up 4 Howling Mines and 4 Relic Barriers in his deck so that
he could rip through his cards for his killer spells. Good strategy. However,
he also decided he wanted to tap any of my artifacts at any time when he didn't
feel like drawing cards.
This doesn't seem right. I can understand tapping artifacts that have an ability
that requires tapping, or tapping artifact creatures (that require tapping to
use their abilities) but it seems pretty weird that he can tap an artifact that
has no tapping ability in it. The Relic Barrier doesn't read "prevents artifact
from using its special ability", it just says "taps target artifact".
We are always told to "read the card first". It seems to me that the ruling on
this should be as follows:
If the artifact has only an ability that is triggered when tapped,
that ability is now impossible.
If the artifact has its own abilities IN ADDITION to abilities that are
triggered when tapped, only those abilities that are triggered when
tapped are impossible. The continuous abilities are still active. It
doesn't say anywhere in the rules (to my knowledge) that tapping a card
can remove continuous effects. In this sense, the continuous ability is
like an Enchantment, which cannot be tapped either.
If the artifact has only continuous abilities (Armageddon Clock), then you
have a tapped continuous ability artifact which is still doing its thing.
Any spells that have an effect on tapped cards would therefore have an
effect on this artifact, even though the tapping itself has no effect.
I realize this would eliminate the Relic Barrier/Howling Mine combo, but it would
also serve to clarify the nature of the artifact; I always thought of it as a
combination of all the spell types (enchantment, mana, sorcery, instant, creature,
interrupt).
>They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at Columbus. *Nobody* laughed at Tesla.
>
>Scott Mark (219) 262-7452 8:00 - 4:30 EST
>s...@gordon.elk.miles.com
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Thomas R Wylie
>Clock, for example) what all stops working?
All of it.
>If Arm. Clock is tapped, can someone spend four mana during upkeep to remove a
>counter, or is that ability turned off as well?...
I believe that ability is turned off as well, but have the sudden
urge to double check that.
Henri Schueler
DeLaney) wrote:
>Nope - if the artifact is tapped, you can't use any of the abilities the
>text gives it.
What about (ordinary) creatures? If they are tapped, can their special
abilities, that don't require tapping? e.g. Combat Medic (1W: Prevent 1
damage to any player or creature) -- can this be used if the medic is
tapped?
--
J.Henri Schueler
1 416 698 9075
j...@interlog.com
Christopher J. Sniezek
Henri Schueler <j...@interlog.com> wrote:
>>Nope - if the artifact is tapped, you can't use any of the abilities the
>>text gives it.
>
>What about (ordinary) creatures? If they are tapped, can their special
>abilities, that don't require tapping? e.g. Combat Medic (1W: Prevent 1
>damage to any player or creature) -- can this be used if the medic is
>tapped?
Yes. Only artifacts are unusable while tapped.
The Jabberwock
(csni...@lynx.neu.edu)
Henri Schueler
>I have been using this particular strategy of using my Relic Barrier to
>Tap my Howling Mine to prevent my opponent from drawing 2 cards on his
>draw phase.
What happens if the Howling Mine is animated? I assume that it now acts
just like an an Artifact-Creature.
It seems to me there is a conflict.
- as a creature, it will still have its non-tapping effects while tapped
- as an artifact, it won't have its continuous effects while tapped
which is it.
And if the answer is that an animated artifact isn't really an
artifact-creature, then lets just pick on something like Triskelion which
is, and has special continuous abilities.
..jhs
David DeLaney
>What happens if the Howling Mine is animated? I assume that it now acts
>just like an an Artifact-Creature.
Yep. Only artifacts which are not creatures and are not lands shut off
entirely when tapped; if something counts as a creature or as a land, it
does not shut off when tapped. Animating your Mine lets its effects
continue when it is tapped, for precisely as long as it is also a creature.