Coffin Queen clarification
South Miro
This is kind of nitpicky, but I thought I'd ask anyway:
The Coffin Queen reads something like, "...remove that creature from the
game if Coffin Queen becomes untapped or you lose control of Coffin
Queen..."
I was wondering what happens to the creature if the Coffin Queen simply
leaves play. Is this considered "losing control"?
Phaedrus
In article <346AA2...@bellsouth.net>,
This is actually a very good question.
"Control" is a concept that only applies to things that are in play.
You don't "control" the cards in your graveyard, or your library, or your
hand; you still _own_ them there, but you don't control them. Likewise,
cards that are phased out aren't under anyone's control. They remember
who controlled them when they phased out, and phase back in during that
player's next turn; but they're still not considered under either player's
control while they're phased out.
So if a card under your control leaves play, you also lose control
of it; and the "When you lose control of X, do this" triggered effects are
dealt with at the same time as the "When X leaves play, do this" triggered
effects and the "When X goes to wherever-the-heck-it's-going, do this"
triggered effects.
--
\o\ If you're interested in books and stories with transformation themes, \o\
/o/ please have a look at <URL:http://www.halcyon.com/phaedrus/>. /o/
\o\ FC1.21:FC(W/C)p6arw A- C->++ D>++ H+ M>+ P R T++++ W** Z+ Sm RLCT \o\
/o/ a cmn++++$ d e++ f+++ h- i++wf p-- sm# /o/
Finn E. Theodorsen
South Miro <top...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>This is kind of nitpicky, but I thought I'd ask anyway:
>The Coffin Queen reads something like, "...remove that creature from the
>game if Coffin Queen becomes untapped or you lose control of Coffin
>Queen..."
>I was wondering what happens to the creature if the Coffin Queen simply
>leaves play. Is this considered "losing control"?
It is! There is one funny situation of notice, if you use the Queen,
anf someone destroy her in response to that, she wont be around when
her effect resolves, and the animated card doesnt see her leave
play, and can never see her untap, so stays in play permanently.
Finn E. Theodorsen///the...@danbbs.dk///AtCbM///Legend#219605
Homepage: http://www.danbbs.dk/~finnet/index.htm
All advertisments sent to the above adress will be
treated as requests for computer support, and charged
accordingly. Sending these kind of messages equals an
acceptance of these terms. The minimum fee is $500.
Rodger Barrington
Finn E. Theodorsen wrote:
> >It is! There is one funny situation of notice, if you use the Queen,
> >anf someone destroy her in response to that, she wont be around when
> >her effect resolves, and the animated card doesnt see her leave
> >play, and can never see her untap, so stays in play permanently.
>
OK. So what happens if the creature that is taken from the graveyard is
pro-black?
Is it removed from the game if the Coffin Queen dies?
Ingo Warnke
Rodger Barrington (rod...@intermetrics.com) wrote:
: Finn E. Theodorsen wrote:
Yes. Protection is not a mystical way to prevent cards from being influenced
by cards of the respective color. It does 3 things:
1.The card can not be the target of <color> spells/abilities/enchantments.
2.All damage from <color> sources is reduced to 0.
3. <color> creatures can't be assigned to block the protected creature.
2. and 3. obviously don't apply here. 1. also does not apply, as the
card is targeted in the graveyard as a card, where it does not have
Protection.
Ingo Warnke
Rodger Barrington
Ingo Warnke wrote:
> >Rodger Barrington (rod...@intermetrics.com) wrote:
>
> : OK. So what happens if the creature that is taken from the graveyard is
> : pro-black?
> : Is it removed from the game if the Coffin Queen dies?
>
> >Yes. Protection is not a mystical way to prevent cards from being influenced
> >by cards of the respective color. It does 3 things:
>
> >1.The card can not be the target of <color> spells/abilities/enchantments.
> >2.All damage from <color> sources is reduced to 0.
> >3. <color> creatures can't be assigned to block the protected creature.
>
> >2. and 3. obviously don't apply here. 1. also does not apply, as the
> >card is targeted in the graveyard as a card, where it does not have
> >Protection.
>
> :Ingo Warnke
So, What you are saying is that since the card was targeted in the grave and the
conditions were set for when it would leave the game, then it will still be
affected by the Coffin Queen's demise even though it has Pro-Black.
Here is another situation..
If the coffin queen pulls a card from the grave, the card phases out, then the
queen is untapped before it returns, I assume that since it did not actually see
the queen untap, that it is still in play.
If that were the case, if she were to become tapped in the future and then
untap, would the card in question be removed from the game? It now sees her
untap.
Thanks.
Ingo Warnke
Rodger Barrington (rod...@intermetrics.com) wrote:
: So, What you are saying is that since the card was targeted in the grave and the
: conditions were set for when it would leave the game, then it will still be
: affected by the Coffin Queen's demise even though it has Pro-Black.
Right.
: Here is another situation..
: If the coffin queen pulls a card from the grave, the card phases out, then the
: queen is untapped before it returns, I assume that since it did not actually see
: the queen untap, that it is still in play.
Well, it will come in play and stay there when it phases in.
: If that were the case, if she were to become tapped in the future and then
: untap, would the card in question be removed from the game? It now sees her
: untap.
There has been some controversy about this question after Tempest was released.
AFAIK it was not finally settled.
IMO the triggered ability will stay whene the creature phases out, so the
creature is RFG'ed in your example when the Queen untaps while the creature is
in play. Other have said that the triggered ability will vanish when the creature
phases out.
Ingo Warnke