Question about Mana Short
James Richter
This is the setup:
Bob is done with his untap, upkeep, and draw phase and is into his main phase.
Chuck is playing blue and has several untapped islands.
Bob goes to summon a Vampire BB3.
Chuck plays a Mana Short as Bob tapps his mana. Here's the problem:
Mana short says it tapps all available lands, and clears the other players
Mana pool. So, is the Vampire spell not cast at all, and remains in Bob's
hand, or does it go to the graveyard? I've heard both, but support the idea
that it stays in Bobs hand since he didnt have the mana available to cast the
Vampire.
James Richter
jric...@herbie.unl.edu
Wiskunde account
>From: jric...@herbie.unl.edu (James Richter)
>Subject: Question about Mana Short
>Date: 23 Nov 1994 21:05:52 GMT
The vampire is still cast and so comes on table. Reason: The paying of mana
is a cost of an effect, and therefor has to be paid directly. This makes the
order of actions like this:
1. vampire summoning is announced - mana is paid
2. mana short is announced
3. mana short becomes effective - land tapped, mana removed from pool
4. vampire becomes effective - vampire comes on table
Andre Engels
email: csg...@wing.rug.nl
John Macdonald
> Andre Engels
> email: csg...@wing.rug.nl
arent effects and such resolved in reverse?
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Chris Dollin
[someone wrote]
> 1. vampire summoning is announced - mana is paid
> 2. mana short is announced
> 3. mana short becomes effective - land tapped, mana removed from pool
> 4. vampire becomes effective - vampire comes on table
[John asked]
arent effects and such resolved in reverse?
Yes; as above, where the announced-first vampire materialises after the
Mana Short drains the pool.
But *costs* are paid in advance, and the mana required to cast a spell
is a cost, not an effect.
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Steve Snodgrass
: Bob goes to summon a Vampire BB3.
: Chuck plays a Mana Short as Bob tapps his mana. Here's the problem:
This is a common misconception about Mana Short. Please note the following
well: **Mana Short is NOT a counterspell.**
Responding to the declaration of a spell with Mana Short will do no good,
because the timing looks like this:
1) Opponent taps for mana at interrupt speed and adds some to her pool.
2) Opponent declares spell. The mana is paid *immediately* because it is
a cost of the spell, even though the spell has not resolved yet.
3) You cast Mana Short, which will tap all opponents remaining lands and
empty their mana pool, but have no effect on what they just cast.
4) Opponent's spell resolves.
In fact, casting Mana Short will not even stop the opponent from casting
further instants and/or interrupts after you've declared the Mana Short.
Example:
1) You declare Mana Short (instant).
2) Opponent taps mountain (interrupt, resolves immediately).
3) Opponent declares Lightning Bolt and pays 1 red (instant, added to stack).
4) Opponent taps forest (interrupt, resolves immediately).
5) Opponent declares Giant Growth and pays 1 green (instant, added to stack).
6) Giant Growth resolves.
7) Lightning Bolt resolves.
8) Mana Short resolves, tapping all opponent's remaining land & emptying pool.
The best time to cast Mana Short is during the opponent's upkeep phase.
The only thing they will be able to do with their land that turn is use
it for instants and interrupts during upkeep right after you declare the
Mana Short.
So what good is Mana Short? Well, it will slow down your opponent, and is
great the turn before you cast Stasis or Winter Orb, etc.
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Andy Whitfield
slight exagerration), I've decided that Mana Short will be long gone by
the time we see RV2. Jeez, and they thought Illusionary Mask was
confusing...=)
Back to your regularly scheduled rules discussion...
--
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"So, Lone Star, now you see Evil will always triumph because Good is dumb..."
- Dark Helmut, from Spaceballs
Andrew Stefanski
> After seeing my billionth question about Mana Short (Warning: May be
> slight exagerration), I've decided that Mana Short will be long gone by
> the time we see RV2. Jeez, and they thought Illusionary Mask was
> confusing...=)
Agreed... OK, that makes two cards that appear likely to be
dropped as "Mystifers" for RV2...
Mana Short
Rock Hydra
Anyone else have any other revised cards that they think are
going to be dropped for being too confusing? Please no uninformed rumors
or the like.
(Did ya hear they're dropping the CoP's and Multilands for
RV2? And all the creatures and spells are gonna be dropped also! And
d00d, they're dropping land!)
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Andy Whitfield
<Pine.SUN.3.91.941204...@uenics.evansville.edu>, Andrew
Stefanski <stef...@evansville.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Nov 1994, Andy Whitfield wrote:
>
> > After seeing my billionth question about Mana Short (Warning: May be
> > slight exagerration), I've decided that Mana Short will be long gone by
> > the time we see RV2. Jeez, and they thought Illusionary Mask was
> > confusing...=)
>
> Agreed... OK, that makes two cards that appear likely to be
> dropped as "Mystifers" for RV2...
>
> Mana Short
> Rock Hydra
>
> Anyone else have any other revised cards that they think are
> going to be dropped for being too confusing? Please no uninformed rumors
> or the like.
>
I'd suggest the following cards:
Mana Short (No, it can't be used as a counterspell)
Rock Hydra (No, the clone does not get the 26 counters of the other Rock Hydra)
Lord of the Pit (No, you can't just decide not to sacrifice a creature)
Manabarbs (No, you can't just power up your circle once)
Possible Mystifiers:
Clockwork Beast (See Rock Hydra)
Island Sanctuary (Assorted problems involving Howling Mine, etc)
Nevinyrral's Disk (Does it destroy the enchantments on my regenerating
creatures?)
Doppleganger (Besides all the Hydra and Clockwork questions, all the
upkeep, etc...questions)
Stuff that might get taken out because they aren't being used:
Island Sanctuary
Farmstead
Sacrifice
Kudzu
Ante Cards?
Ebony Horse (Maze of Ith, it's just better)
Volcanic Eruption
All of these, of course,are just in my opinion. I have no actual clue what
WotC plans to take out and/or put in. =)
Dan Head
: In article
: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941204...@uenics.evansville.edu>, Andrew
: Stefanski <stef...@evansville.edu> wrote:
: > On Wed, 30 Nov 1994, Andy Whitfield wrote:
: > > After seeing my billionth question about Mana Short (Warning: May be
: > > slight exagerration), I've decided that Mana Short will be long gone by
: > > the time we see RV2. Jeez, and they thought Illusionary Mask was
: > > confusing...=)
: >
: > Agreed... OK, that makes two cards that appear likely to be
: > dropped as "Mystifers" for RV2...
: >
: > Mana Short
: > Rock Hydra
: >
: > Anyone else have any other revised cards that they think are
: > going to be dropped for being too confusing? Please no uninformed rumors
: > or the like.
Well, this is just an "uninformed rumor or the like", but since the
begining, there has been a lot of confusion surrounding the "Fork"
card, and reading the threads here, I would count that one as a good
possibility for being discontinued. It would be a pity though.
: I'd suggest the following cards:
: Possible Mystifiers:
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Chip Marshall Hogan
> Mana Short
> Rock Hydra
Well I think anything that is restricted from RV is probably being
considered:
channel
copy artifact
demonic tutor
regrowth
sol ring
Ivory tower
I also think a lot of the common, hardly used cards will be considered.
But the will NEVER, EVER remove the mighty ATOG!!!!!!!
chip
Andrew Stefanski
> I'd suggest the following cards:
>
> Lord of the Pit (No, you can't just decide not to sacrifice a creature)
Actually, I think they'll just re-word the Pitlord to make it
evident how he works, instead of removing him.
> Manabarbs (No, you can't just power up your circle once)
Possible, thought they may just re-word this one also.
> Possible Mystifiers:
>
> Doppleganger (Besides all the Hydra and Clockwork questions, all the
> upkeep, etc...questions)
No! Don't remove the gorgeous Doppleganger! :)
> Stuff that might get taken out because they aren't being used:
>
> Island Sanctuary
> Farmstead
For the most part, I agree with both of these.
> Kudzu
Used just right though, as someone mentioned - Kudzu, Saevan
Elves, Skull of Orm...
> Ante Cards?
Yes... dump them!
> Ebony Horse (Maze of Ith, it's just better)
But not everyone has a Maze of Ith, and Ebony Horse removes from
combat completely.
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Andrew Stefanski | / Help, I'm a Pentium, \
stef...@evansville.edu | < and I can't divide! >
Computer Science | \ "Bug Soup!" -- AvP /
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The now proud owner of a Time Walk!