Zur's Weirding Question
Karl Allen
Got a question about Zur's Weirding. It says, basically, that all players
play with their hands revealed, and that by paying 2 life any player
can make the other person discard a card they just drew. My question is
this - do I get to see the card they drew before deciding whether to make
them discard it, or do I have to just guess? For example, if there's a
Zur's Weirding out and my opponent would be drawing a Yawgmoth's Will, I
might want them to not have that card. I'd like to be able to see that it's
the Will (as opposed to a Swamp) and pay two life accordingly. Can I? (I
thought I remembered that that was how Zur's Weirding worked, but in looking
at the spoiler I am doubtful).
I remain rather weird myself,
K
Jamie LaFountain
wrote:
I'll give you the latest Oracle text on Zur's Weirding and you will
see that it answers your question quite clearly.
Zur's Weirding
3U
Enchantment
Players play with their hands revealed.
If a player would draw a card, he or she reveals it instead. Then any
other player may pay 2 life. If a player does, put that card into its
owner's graveyard. If no one does, that player draws the card.
Jamie LaFountain
DCI Level 2 Judge
mis...@twcny.rr.com
EFNet: CNYJammer
ICQ: 21903347
"Cease and peace and the long, bright curve of space." Conrad Aiken, _Silent Snow, Secret Snow_
Karl Allen
>>Got a question about Zur's Weirding.
>I'll give you the latest Oracle text on Zur's Weirding and you will
>see that it answers your question quite clearly.
Thanks much - that makes it *quite* clear that yes indeed I can let them
have the Swamp but cancel that order of Yawgmoth's Will.
>Jamie LaFountain
Is that pronounced "la fountain" or "la fon-tane"? I ask because for this
AD&D adventure we're writing for Gen Con we're giving everyone French
sounding names, and "la fon-tane" sounds pretty French, I just need to
know how to spell it.
I remain,
K
Doug Malotte
>AD&D adventure we're writing for Gen Con we're giving everyone French
>sounding names, and "la fon-tane" sounds pretty French, I just need to
>know how to spell it.
>
"Lafontaine". Best of luck with the adventure.
-Demented
Steve Lord
>
> Got a question about Zur's Weirding. It says, basically, that all players
> play with their hands revealed, and that by paying 2 life any player
> can make the other person discard a card they just drew. My question is
> this - do I get to see the card they drew before deciding whether to make
> them discard it, or do I have to just guess? For example, if there's a
Of course. The Oracle text makes this much clearer.
ZUR'S WEIRDING
3U
Enchantment
Players play with their hands revealed.
If a player would draw a card, he or she reveals it instead. Then any
other player may pay 2 life. If a player does, put that card into its
owner's graveyard. If no one does, that player draws the card.
Hmm ... on another note, tying in to something Ingo mentioned earlier in
another thread, this would be a good wording for Amber Prison ... the "Any
player may pay ... If a player does ... If no one does."
> Zur's Weirding out and my opponent would be drawing a Yawgmoth's Will, I
> might want them to not have that card. I'd like to be able to see that it's
> the Will (as opposed to a Swamp) and pay two life accordingly. Can I? (I
> thought I remembered that that was how Zur's Weirding worked, but in looking
> at the spoiler I am doubtful).
Yes.
> I remain rather weird myself,
I'd be willing to bet that I'm as weird or weirder than you are :)
Steve L
Ziggy99
it's considered in the hand. So in order to discard, it must already been
drawn, so you must be able to see the card.
If Zur's Weirding didn't want you to see the card, it would have been worded
like thus :***** Pay 2 life to prevent target player from drawing a card
during draw phase. *****
Or: **** Pay two life and instead of target player drawing a card, target
player places top card of library into gravard. Do this only during draw phase
of target player. ****
Hope this helps.
James
Jamie LaFountain
wrote:
>
>Is that pronounced "la fountain" or "la fon-tane"? I ask because for this
>AD&D adventure we're writing for Gen Con we're giving everyone French
>sounding names, and "la fon-tane" sounds pretty French, I just need to
>know how to spell it.
>
Well this is technically not a rules question. <<duck>> =)
I pronounce if "la-FOWN-ten." It's kind of Americanized I guess.
David DeLaney
>Got a question about Zur's Weirding. It says, basically, that all players
>play with their hands revealed, and that by paying 2 life any player
>can make the other person discard a card they just drew. My question is
>this - do I get to see the card they drew before deciding whether to make
>them discard it, or do I have to just guess?
Well, let's look at Oracle: (computers, back of the KGB)
ZUR'S WEIRDING 3U Enchantment
Players play with their hands revealed. / If a player would draw a card, he or
she reveals it instead. Then any other player may pay 2 life. If a player
does, put that card into its owner's graveyard. If no one does, that player
draws the card.
So: the cards that would be drawn are instead revealed. _Instead of_ being
drawn. Each player thus gets to see it, before they decide to pay or not.
Only if -nobody- pays does the card actually end up drawn. (If someone pays,
the card goes from that player's library to their graveyard; this -would-
trigger a Gaea's Blessing, but would -not- trigger a Guerilla Tactics or
Psychic Purge.)
>For example, if there's a
>Zur's Weirding out and my opponent would be drawing a Yawgmoth's Will, I
>might want them to not have that card. I'd like to be able to see that it's
>the Will (as opposed to a Swamp) and pay two life accordingly. Can I?
Yes, says the Oracle text.
Dave
--
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It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
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http://panacea.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David DeLaney
>I would gander that the draw phase lasts until a card is actually drawn, then
>it's considered in the hand.
That's worded oddly. There's a 'draw a card' triggered ability that goes on
the stack at the -beginning- of draw step (not "draw phase", not under 6E
rules); that resolves sometime -during- draw step, and the player draws a card.
>So in order to discard, it must already been
>drawn, so you must be able to see the card.
>If Zur's Weirding didn't want you to see the card, it would have been worded
>like thus :***** Pay 2 life to prevent target player from drawing a card
>during draw phase. *****
...Zur's Weirding doesn't say -anything- about 'draw phase', even in the
original card text. It applies to -any- card that would get drawn. Granted,
as originally worded the card would get drawn (and thus be in the player's
hand, and therefore revealed) before it could get discarded... but the current
wording doesn't have it get drawn until the -last- thing the replaced effect
does.
David DeLaney
>Hmm ... on another note, tying in to something Ingo mentioned earlier in
>another thread, this would be a good wording for Amber Prison ... the "Any
>player may pay ... If a player does ... If no one does."
...Icy Prison, perhaps you mean?
ICY PRISON UU Enchantment
When ~ comes into play, remove target creature from the game. / At the
beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice ~ unless any player pays 3. / When ~
leaves play, return that creature to play under its owner's control.
That wording's equivalent, says the Glossary, to "...upkeep, any player may
pay 3. If they don't ( == "if no player does"), sacrifice ~."
The third ability's separate from the second because they want the creature
to come back for -any- way of removing Icy Prison from the game, not just
for having to sac it to its upkeep triggered ability.
>> I remain rather weird myself,
>
>I'd be willing to bet that I'm as weird or weirder than you are :)
Dave "you -both- have a long way to go; correct, Karl" DeLaney
Karl Allen
Steve Lord <sl...@wpi.edu> writes:
>> I remain rather weird myself,
>
>I'd be willing to bet that I'm as weird or weirder than you are :)
"Don't try to out-weird me, babe. I get weirder things than you free in
my breakfast cereal."
I remain quoting a popular work of science fiction,
K
Ziggy99
>the stack at the -beginning- of draw step (not "draw phase", not under 6E
>rules); that resolves sometime -during- draw step, and the player draws a
>card.
>
>
I'm just getting back in after a long absence, so I'm not as familiar with the
"new" rules as most of you out there. But, in spite of my arcane lingo, that
lingo (eg: draw phase, bury, ect.) was around alot longer than the "Stack" and
5th/6th edition rules. In most cases, the result is the same, despite using
outdated lingo.
Sorry for the confustion, all you newer players.
James
Steve Lord
> In article <Pine.OSF.4.21.000403...@mathlab.WPI.EDU>
> Steve Lord <sl...@wpi.edu> writes:
> >> I remain rather weird myself,
> >
> >I'd be willing to bet that I'm as weird or weirder than you are :)
>
> "Don't try to out-weird me, babe. I get weirder things than you free in
> my breakfast cereal."
"If you try to out-weird me, I shall become weirder than you can possibly
imagine."
Steve "brings his copy of Oracle in front of him and projecting
with the Force of Will" L
David DeLaney
>>That's worded oddly. There's a 'draw a card' triggered ability that goes on
>>the stack at the -beginning- of draw step (not "draw phase", not under 6E
>>rules); that resolves sometime -during- draw step, and the player draws a
>>card.
>
>I'm just getting back in after a long absence, so I'm not as familiar with the
>"new" rules as most of you out there.
Fair enough. (If you wanna browse through the rulebook, or the Geneeal Rulings
file, online, it should catch you up some.)
>But, in spite of my arcane lingo, that
>lingo (eg: draw phase, bury, ect.) was around alot longer than the "Stack" and
>5th/6th edition rules. In most cases, the result is the same, despite using
>outdated lingo.
Mostly, yes. But precise wording turns out to be important sometimes. For
upkeep step, for instance, you no longer take manaburn at its end ... because
it's not a phase any more. The first time manaburn happens in a turn is
end of draw step, because that's the end of Beginning phase...
Dave
David Welsh
100...@mathlab.WPI.EDU>, Steve Lord <sl...@wpi.edu> wrote:
>> >> I remain rather weird myself,
>> >
>> >I'd be willing to bet that I'm as weird or weirder than you
are :)
>>
>> "Don't try to out-weird me, babe. I get weirder things than
you free in
>> my breakfast cereal."
>
>"If you try to out-weird me, I shall become weirder than you
can possibly
>imagine."
>
Dave, is this what happens when you mix Kibology with Magic?
David Welsh
---
"For, spite of his fine theoretic positions,
Mankind is a science defies definitions."
Robert Burns
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David DeLaney
>Steve Lord <sl...@wpi.edu> wrote:
>>> "Don't try to out-weird me, babe. I get weirder things than you free in
>>> my breakfast cereal."
>>
>>"If you try to out-weird me, I shall become weirder than you can possibly
>>imagine."
>
>Dave, is this what happens when you mix Kibology with Magic?
Possibly ... though as far as I know Karl doesn't read a.r.k (they all just
listen to me, back in the corner, giggling at random intervals and once in
a while emitting a burst of laughter, and just shake their heads and shuffle
again...)
Dave "I know Bob Flaminio does, though" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower