Mogg Bombers
Manuel Figueiredo
I read on page 117 of September issue of "Inquest" that if the Moggs saw
8 creatures coming into play via Snake Basket or Mogg Infestation they
wolud deal 24 points of damage...is this correct??? Will the same apply
via Living Death???
Thanks for your time,
MF
Ingo Warnke
: Hello everyone,
: I read on page 117 of September issue of "Inquest" that if the Moggs saw
: 8 creatures coming into play via Snake Basket or Mogg Infestation they
: wolud deal 24 points of damage...is this correct???
Yes. They trigger 8 times, so the 'deal 3 damage and sacrifice Mogg Bombers'
ability is played 8 times, resulting in 24 damage overall. This assumes
in the Mogg Infestation case that the Bomber is not destroyed (either it
is regenerated from the Infestation or it is not controlled by the player
who is infested).
: Will the same apply
: via Living Death???
No. The difference is that in the first example the Mogg Bombers is already
some time in play when the new creatures (Cobras/Goblins) come into play.
With Living Death all the creatures (Bomber and others) come into play at
the same time, so the Bombers ability will not trigger.
Generally, abilities like 'When I come into play, do ...' are active while
the creature comes into play (because it can't work otherwise). Examples are
Nekrataal and Man-O-War. But abilities like 'When some permanent with this
property comes into play, do ...' are not active while the card with that
ability comes into play. Examples are Mogg Bombers or Nature's Wrath.
Ingo Warnke
Maarten van Beek
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I read on page 117 of September issue of "Inquest" that if the Moggs saw
> 8 creatures coming into play via Snake Basket or Mogg Infestation they
> wolud deal 24 points of damage...is this correct???
Yes.
> Will the same apply via Living Death???
Yes. The Moggs will trigger once for every creature coming into play,
and you play these abilities all in a series. So if, say, 8 creatures
came into play, this would happen:
Moggs trigger 8 times
Series start:
1. You deal 3 damage (no problem) & sacrifice the Mogg (it goes to your
graveyard)
2. You deal 3 damage (no problem) & sacrifice the Mogg (it's already
gone)
3. You deal 3 damage (no problem) & sacrifice the Mogg (it's already
gone)
4. You deal 3 damage (no problem) & sacrifice the Mogg (it's already
gone)
5. You deal 3 damage (no problem) & sacrifice the Mogg (it's already
gone)
6. You deal 3 damage (no problem) & sacrifice the Mogg (it's already
gone)
7. You deal 3 damage (no problem) & sacrifice the Mogg (it's already
gone)
8. You deal 3 damage (no problem) & sacrifice the Mogg (it's already
gone)
Note that the two parts of the effect are seperate. One is not needed
for the other to work. So even if the Mogg is already sacced, the
damage-dealing part of the ability still works.
Maarten van Beek
mailto:mogg.b...@blacklotus.demon.nl
Coach
1 - If i have 2 Mogg Bombers in my graveyard and 2 creatures more, my
opponent have 4 creatures in his graveyard; what happends if i cast Living
Death, does i give 3 point damage for each creature that goes to play or
what?
2 - The some question, but it's my opponent that cast's Living Death.
3 - And with Soul Warden in my graveyard instead the Mogg Bombers? Do i gain
live for each creature? And if it's my opponent that cast's Living Death.
Thanks.
Maarten van Beek
>
> Question:
>
> 1 - If i have 2 Mogg Bombers in my graveyard and 2 creatures more, my
> opponent have 4 creatures in his graveyard; what happends if i cast Living
> Death, does i give 3 point damage for each creature that goes to play or
> what?
The Mogg Bombers will sit and do nothing. They cannot trigger until they
are in play (because their ability only works if they are in play), but
once they are in play, so are the other creatures, so now they won't
trigger anymore, since all creatures are already in play.
> 2 - The some question, but it's my opponent that cast's Living Death.
Doesn't matter. Same answer.
> 3 - And with Soul Warden in my graveyard instead the Mogg Bombers? Do i gain
> live for each creature? And if it's my opponent that cast's Living Death.
Both cases, nothing happens, since the Soul Warden won't trigger on
anything until it is in play itself. And by the time it is in play, so
are all other creatures.
Maarten van Beek
mailto:mogg.bombers.a...@blacklotus.demon.nl
Mike Marcelais
>opponent have 4 creatures in his graveyard; what happends if i cast Living
>Death, does i give 3 point damage for each creature that goes to play or
>what?
The Bombers, along with the other two creatures all enter play. The Bomber's
ability can't trigger because they weren't in play to have their ability be
"on" looking for other creatures when the other creatures were entering play.
>2 - The some question, but it's my opponent that cast's Living Death.
Same answer.
>3 - And with Soul Warden in my graveyard instead the Mogg Bombers? Do i gain
>live for each creature? And if it's my opponent that cast's Living Death.
Again, you won't. If a bunch of things enter play simultaneously, and one of
those creatures has a triggered effect checking for when /other/ things enter
play, that ability can't trigger.
[That's beacuse at the time it would need to trigger, which is just before
anything has actually entered play, it isn't in play, so its ability can't
work.]
============================================================
Mike Marcelais mich...@microsoft.com Magic Rules Guru
Visit the Marcelais System, Hughes Quadrant, Argent Sector
[My posts are my own opinions; I don't speak for Microsoft.]
=== -= Moonstone Dragon =- ================== -= UDIC =- ===
Mike Marcelais
>8 creatures coming into play via Snake Basket or Mogg Infestation they
>wolud deal 24 points of damage...is this correct???
Yes. A bunch of creatures entering play simultaneously will trigger the
Bombers multiple times. All of those triggers will resolve -- the fact that
you can't sacrifice the Bombers each time won't stop the damage from happening
(since sacrificing the Bombers /isn't/ a cost of using the ability.
>Will the same apply via Living Death???
No. If the Bombers were already in play when Living Death was cast, then they
will be put in the graveyard before anything can enter play.
If the Bombers were in the graveyard, then they would enter play simultaneously
with all of the other creatures and its triggered ability won't be able to go
off. They'd merely sit in play awaiting the next creature to enter play and
trigger then.
Mike Marcelais
>
Not really.
> The Moggs will trigger once for every creature coming into play,
>and you play these abilities all in a series. So if, say, 8 creatures
>came into play, this would happen:
Unfortunately, getting this to happen is very difficult.
If the Mogg is entering play along with the creatures, then it's ability won't
be able to trigger (for reasons I've listed in two other posts, and that
Maarten even listed in his other reply to this thread). Hence, nothing
interesting will happen. If the Mogg was already in play when LD was cast, it
will be buried before any of the creatures in the graveyard can enter play, and
again, nothing will trigger.
Maarten van Beek
>
> >> Will the same apply via Living Death???
> >
> >Yes.
>
> Not really.
I assumed he meant having a Mogg in play and then playing living death.
> > The Moggs will trigger once for every creature coming into play,
> >and you play these abilities all in a series. So if, say, 8 creatures
> >came into play, this would happen:
>
> Unfortunately, getting this to happen is very difficult.
>
> If the Mogg is entering play along with the creatures, then it's ability won't
> be able to trigger (for reasons I've listed in two other posts, and that
> Maarten even listed in his other reply to this thread). Hence, nothing
> interesting will happen. If the Mogg was already in play when LD was cast, it
> will be buried before any of the creatures in the graveyard can enter play, and
> again, nothing will trigger.
And I forgot that the Living Death buries the Mogg first, of course.
Oops!
Maarten van Beek
mailto:moggs....@blacklotus.demon.nl
David DeLaney
>I read on page 117 of September issue of "Inquest" that if the Moggs saw
>8 creatures coming into play via Snake Basket or Mogg Infestation they
>wolud deal 24 points of damage...is this correct???
Yes. They'll do it 3 at a time, in a series after the group of other creatures
comes into play, but yes.
>Will the same apply via Living Death???
No; the Moggs have to _be_ in play _when_ the other things come into play
to trigger off them coming into play. If the Moggs come into play via
Living Death, they won't trigger then at all; they'll go off the next time
something comes into play while they -are- in play. [Living Death gets
rid of any Moggs that -were- in play before things come into play, so
you can't generall have a leftover Mogg waiting in play to trigger off the
things Living Death is putting into play.]
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://panacea.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David DeLaney
>Manuel Figueiredo wrote:
>> Will the same apply via Living Death???
>
>and you play these abilities all in a series.
Careful. This would be true if there were a Mogg Bombers in play when
Living Death put thinsg into play. That's nearly impossible to do, though.
A Mogg Bombers put into play _by_ the Living Death will not trigger off
anything that coms into play at the same time it did.
David DeLaney
>1 - If i have 2 Mogg Bombers in my graveyard and 2 creatures more, my
>opponent have 4 creatures in his graveyard; what happends if i cast Living
>Death, does i give 3 point damage for each creature that goes to play or
>what?
What.
If a Mogg Bombers comes into play _with_ some other creatures, it can't
trigger then at all. It has to _be_ in play already when creatures come
into play in order to trigger. It is not a combo with Living Death at all.
>2 - The some question, but it's my opponent that cast's Living Death.
Same answer.
>3 - And with Soul Warden in my graveyard instead the Mogg Bombers? Do i gain
>live for each creature? And if it's my opponent that cast's Living Death.
Same answer: the Soul Warden can't trigger at all -while- it's coming into
play, because it doesn't say it can. It only triggers once it's already -in-
play, when new things come into play. It is also not a combo with Living Death.
David DeLaney
>If the Mogg is entering play along with the creatures, then it's ability won't
>be able to trigger (for reasons I've listed in two other posts, and that
>Maarten even listed in his other reply to this thread). Hence, nothing
>interesting will happen. If the Mogg was already in play when LD was cast, it
>will be buried before any of the creatures in the graveyard can enter play, and
>again, nothing will trigger.
If the Moggs are being kept in phaseland by an animted Tawnos' Coffin, then
casting Living Death can get them into play in time to see all the other
creatures come into play. That's the only way I can think of though [and I
didn't come up with it...]
Ingo Kemper
wrote:
>Question:
>
>1 - If i have 2 Mogg Bombers in my graveyard and 2 creatures more, my
>opponent have 4 creatures in his graveyard; what happends if i cast Living
>Death, does i give 3 point damage for each creature that goes to play or
>what?
No damage will be dealt at all because the Mogg Bombers aren't
triggered. Living Death puts all the creatures into play at the same
time. The abilities aren't active until the Mogg Bombers _are_ in
play, but at that time _all_ creatures are already in play and the
goblins' abilities won't be triggered.
>2 - The some question, but it's my opponent that cast's Living Death.
Doesn't matter at all. The goblins' abilities aren't triggered.
>3 - And with Soul Warden in my graveyard instead the Mogg Bombers? Do i gain
>live for each creature? And if it's my opponent that cast's Living Death.
No, for the same reason. Soul Warden must be in play to "see" another
creature coming into play. It won't trigger on creatures entering play
alongside with it.
Ingo Kemper
--
__ _ __ __ __ __
__/ /_/ \/ /_/____/_ |___Sky...@uni-muenster.de___---===> \
/_/ /_/\_/ |__/ |__/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---===>__/
Ingo Kemper
<nop3...@mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
>I read on page 117 of September issue of "Inquest" that if the Moggs saw
>8 creatures coming into play via Snake Basket or Mogg Infestation they
>wolud deal 24 points of damage...is this correct???
Yes. The goblins' ability is triggered as often as there are creatures
entering play.
> Will the same apply via Living Death???
No, because it's not possible for you to have Mogg Bombers already in
play when Living Death puts some other creatures into play. (The
ability is only active while the goblins are in play, so it won't be
triggered by creatures entering play at the same time as Mogg
Bombers.)
Ingo Warnke
: "Mike Marcelais" <mich...@microsoft.com> writes:
: >If the Mogg is entering play along with the creatures, then it's ability won't
: >be able to trigger (for reasons I've listed in two other posts, and that
: >Maarten even listed in his other reply to this thread). Hence, nothing
: >interesting will happen. If the Mogg was already in play when LD was cast, it
: >will be buried before any of the creatures in the graveyard can enter play, and
: >again, nothing will trigger.
: If the Moggs are being kept in phaseland by an animted Tawnos' Coffin, then
: casting Living Death can get them into play in time to see all the other
: creatures come into play. That's the only way I can think of though [and I
: didn't come up with it...]
Oubliette should work the same, but there is even a T2 legal card that
can do it. Since it seems to be non-trivial, I'll make a quiz of it:
Which T2 legal card do you need together with Mogg Bombers, some creatures in
the graveyard and Living Death to have the Mogg Bomber 'see' the creatures
coming from the grave and have him trigger?
Ingo Warnke
Maarten van Beek
>
>
> Oubliette should work the same, but there is even a T2 legal card that
> can do it. Since it seems to be non-trivial, I'll make a quiz of it:
>
> Which T2 legal card do you need together with Mogg Bombers, some creatures in
> the graveyard and Living Death to have the Mogg Bomber 'see' the creatures
> coming from the grave and have him trigger?
I think abduction does the trick. You have Abduction on your own Mogg
Bombers, you play Living Death. No responses -> resolution:
event 1: Set aside all creatures in all graveyards. ok.
event 2: Put each creature that is in play into its owner's graveyard.
triggers: Abduction trigger goes off. Bombers return to play under your
control.
event 3: Put each creature card set aside in this way into play under
its owner's control.
triggers: Mogg Bomber, already waiting for his mates, sees them coming
into play and does.... BOOOOOOOOM!!!
Maarten van Beek
mailto:abdu...@blacklotus.demon.nl
David DeLaney
>David DeLaney (d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu) wrote:
>: If the Moggs are being kept in phaseland by an animted Tawnos' Coffin, then
>: casting Living Death can get them into play in time to see all the other
>: creatures come into play. That's the only way I can think of though [and I
>: didn't come up with it...]
>
>can do it.
Oubliette doesn't get removed by Living Death, since there's currently no
way at all to animate it [important].
Ophidio
<webm...@blacklotus.demon.nl> wrote:
>Ingo Warnke wrote:
>>
>>
>> Oubliette should work the same, but there is even a T2 legal card that
>> can do it. Since it seems to be non-trivial, I'll make a quiz of it:
>>
>> Which T2 legal card do you need together with Mogg Bombers, some creatures in
>> the graveyard and Living Death to have the Mogg Bomber 'see' the creatures
>> coming from the grave and have him trigger?
>
>I think abduction does the trick. You have Abduction on your own Mogg
>Bombers, you play Living Death. No responses -> resolution:
>
>event 1: Set aside all creatures in all graveyards. ok.
>event 2: Put each creature that is in play into its owner's graveyard.
>triggers: Abduction trigger goes off. Bombers return to play under your
>control.
>event 3: Put each creature card set aside in this way into play under
>its owner's control.
>triggers: Mogg Bomber, already waiting for his mates, sees them coming
>into play and does.... BOOOOOOOOM!!!
>
>Maarten van Beek
>mailto:abdu...@blacklotus.demon.nl
>
I think u are in mistake.
If Mogg have abduction on it the ability of abduction resolve after
the resolution aof living death.
so we have
Ling Death resolution ->
Set aside all critter in graveyard ->
put the critter in paly into graveyard (abduction ability trigger and
go to the batch) ->
return critters aside in play ->
return Mogg in play for abduction.
If i've done some mistake please explane me what and why.
Ophidio
Ophidio
Ingo Warnke
: >> Which T2 legal card do you need together with Mogg Bombers, some creatures in
: >> the graveyard and Living Death to have the Mogg Bomber 'see' the creatures
: >> coming from the grave and have him trigger?
: >
: >I think abduction does the trick. You have Abduction on your own Mogg
: >Bombers, you play Living Death. No responses -> resolution:
: >
: >event 1: Set aside all creatures in all graveyards. ok.
: >event 2: Put each creature that is in play into its owner's graveyard.
: >triggers: Abduction trigger goes off. Bombers return to play under your
: >control.
: >event 3: Put each creature card set aside in this way into play under
: >its owner's control.
: >triggers: Mogg Bomber, already waiting for his mates, sees them coming
: >into play and does.... BOOOOOOOOM!!!
: I think u are in mistake.
No, the solution is correct. I had another one in mind, though.
: If Mogg have abduction on it the ability of abduction resolve after
: the resolution aof living death.
Not true. Triggered abilities happen after 'events'. Living Death has 3
events (indicated by the words 'then').
: so we have
: Ling Death resolution ->
: Set aside all critter in graveyard ->
: put the critter in paly into graveyard (abduction ability trigger and
: go to the batch) ->
Triggered abilities don't go to the batch. They happen in a series right
after each event. They don't wait for the entire spell to resolve.
Ingo Warnke
Maarten van Beek
>
> On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:51:15 +0200, Maarten van Beek
> <webm...@blacklotus.demon.nl> wrote:
>
> >Ingo Warnke wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Oubliette should work the same, but there is even a T2 legal card that
> >> can do it. Since it seems to be non-trivial, I'll make a quiz of it:
> >>
> >> the graveyard and Living Death to have the Mogg Bomber 'see' the creatures
> >> coming from the grave and have him trigger?
> >
> >I think abduction does the trick. You have Abduction on your own Mogg
> >Bombers, you play Living Death. No responses -> resolution:
> >
> >event 1: Set aside all creatures in all graveyards. ok.
> >event 2: Put each creature that is in play into its owner's graveyard.
> >triggers: Abduction trigger goes off. Bombers return to play under your
> >control.
> >event 3: Put each creature card set aside in this way into play under
> >its owner's control.
> >triggers: Mogg Bomber, already waiting for his mates, sees them coming
> >into play and does.... BOOOOOOOOM!!!
> >
> the resolution aof living death.
> Ling Death resolution ->
> Set aside all critter in graveyard ->
> put the critter in paly into graveyard (abduction ability trigger and
> go to the batch) ->
> return Mogg in play for abduction.
> If i've done some mistake please explane me what and why.
ok. Triggered abilities and rules triggers and damage preventiona are
played after every part/event of a spell's resolution. You can
distinguish different parts/events of a spell's or ability's effect by
the keyword "then" on the card. So the Living Death has three events,
and triggered abilities are played after each of them, if appropriate
(i.e. if they triggered).
James Risse
>nfa...@cks1.rz.uni-rostock.de (Ingo Warnke) writes:
>>David DeLaney (d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu) wrote:
>>: If the Moggs are being kept in phaseland by an animted Tawnos' Coffin,
then
>>: casting Living Death can get them into play in time to see all the other
>>: creatures come into play. That's the only way I can think of though [and
I
>>: didn't come up with it...]
>>
>>can do it.
>
>way at all to animate it [important].
>
>Dave
Oubliette to go away during the resolution of LD.
James
David DeLaney
> Maarten wrote:
>>I think abduction does the trick. You have Abduction on your own Mogg
>>Bombers, you play Living Death. No responses -> resolution:
This doesn't work.
>I think u are in mistake.
>If Mogg have abduction on it the ability of abduction resolve after
>the resolution aof living death.
No. Living Death has two "then"s in its text; this divides its
resolution into three separate events. Between events in a resolution,
you may use mana sources ... and must deal with triggered abilities from
the event that just ended ... and must use replacement abilities for the
event that's about to happen ... and have a damage-prevention step for
any damage from the event that just ended.
So when Living Death sets aside all creatures in play, you deal with
any triggered abilities from that before putting all creatures
in all graveyards into play.
Unfortunately, Abduction -doesn't- trigger off the creature it's on being
set aside - it only triggers off of the creature it's on being put straight
into the graveyard ... which Living Death doesn't do. So Abduction on
a creature won't make it come back into play before the Living Death
puts things into play. [If it simply triggered when the creature _left
play_, it would do so then and in that manner. But it doesn't trigger off
that.]
Maarten van Beek
>
> oph...@tuttocitta.it (Ophidio) writes:
> > Maarten wrote:
> >>I think abduction does the trick. You have Abduction on your own Mogg
> >>Bombers, you play Living Death. No responses -> resolution:
>
> This doesn't work.
It does....
> >I think u are in mistake.
> >If Mogg have abduction on it the ability of abduction resolve after
> >the resolution aof living death.
>
> No. Living Death has two "then"s in its text; this divides its
> resolution into three separate events. Between events in a resolution,
> you may use mana sources ... and must deal with triggered abilities from
> the event that just ended ... and must use replacement abilities for the
> event that's about to happen ... and have a damage-prevention step for
> any damage from the event that just ended.
>
> So when Living Death sets aside all creatures in play,
I am sorry to inform you that the cyle works the other way around.
Creature from the _graveyard_ are the ones who are set aside, then those
from play go directly into the graveyard. Then, creatures from set aside
go into play.
> you deal with any triggered abilities from that before putting all creatures
> in all graveyards into play.
They go from
graveyard -> aside
play -> graveyard
aside -> play
> Unfortunately, Abduction -doesn't- trigger off the creature it's on being
> set aside -
Correct, but that's nothing to worry about here, is it?
> it only triggers off of the creature it's on being put straight
> into the graveyard ... which Living Death doesn't do.
Oh yes, I get to say it: RTFC
> So Abduction on
> a creature won't make it come back into play before the Living Death
> puts things into play. [If it simply triggered when the creature _left
> play_, it would do so then and in that manner. But it doesn't trigger off
> that.]
I think you must be convinced now that it does work :-)
Maarten van Beek
mailto:david.has.got.i...@blacklotus.demon.nl
David DeLaney
>> This doesn't work.
>It does....
Bah, you're correct - I actually go to the trouble of reading the card(s)
for this one, and what happens? I misread them. I didn't look closely
enough, and saw the "set aside all creature cards in all graveyards"
as "set aside all creatures in play", somehow.
Sorry. Bad netrep, no cookie.
>I am sorry to inform you that the cyle works the other way around.
>Creature from the _graveyard_ are the ones who are set aside, then those
>from play go directly into the graveyard. Then, creatures from set aside
>go into play.
Yep, blah. The Abduction _does_ work - the enchanted creature will
reappear in play after the creatures in play are put into the
graveyard but before the cards that were set aside are put into play.
[Given two or three chances at RTFC, I can usually puzzle out the English,
finally...]
David DeLaney
>Yep, blah. The Abduction _does_ work - the enchanted creature will
>reappear in play after the creatures in play are put into the
>graveyard but before the cards that were set aside are put into play.
>[Given two or three chances at RTFC, I can usually puzzle out the English,
>finally...]
As a followup penance, I note that you can get the same thing to happen
if you have an Angelic Renewal in play when the Living Death resolves...