Takklemaggot (several)
Carsten palleske
I know this is an old one and I'm sorry to bother you.
Maybe this question has been answered several times...
Takklemaggot: Black Enchant Creature, BB2
Text
Put a 0/-1 counter on target creature during its controller's upkeep.
If the creature is placed in the graveyard, its controller chooses a new
target for Takklemaggot. If there are no legal targets, Takklemaggot becomes
an enchantment and does 1 damage to the controller of the last creature
Takklemaggot was on, during his or her upkeep. Takklemaggot does not revert
to a creature enchantment even if other creatures are afterwards brought into
play
Well, if there are several Takklemaggot on a creature
(i.e. a 0/1 token creature)
what happens?
The creature definately dies upon activation of the first one and all
TM go to another creature. But do the other Takklemaggot get activated
on that other creatures or is the effect considered to be done with
the first dead creature?
If the effect triggers simultaneously, I might have chosen
to put all 0/-1 counters on the token creature, but as it was 0/1,
it couldn't have taken all. - So what?
Thanks,
Carsten.
(mail please)
Parallax
<vft1...@studbox.uni-stuttgart.de> wrote:
>
>I know this is an old one and I'm sorry to bother you.
>Maybe this question has been answered several times...
>
>Takklemaggot: Black Enchant Creature, BB2
>Text
>Put a 0/-1 counter on target creature during its controller's upkeep.
>If the creature is placed in the graveyard, its controller chooses a new
>target for Takklemaggot. If there are no legal targets, Takklemaggot becomes
>an enchantment and does 1 damage to the controller of the last creature
>Takklemaggot was on, during his or her upkeep. Takklemaggot does not revert
>to a creature enchantment even if other creatures are afterwards brought into
>play
This is one of the weirdest cards I've seen.
>Well, if there are several Takklemaggot on a creature
>(i.e. a 0/1 token creature)
>what happens?
>
>The creature definately dies upon activation of the first one and all
>TM go to another creature.
Actually, they could each go to any creature, the choice of that
creature's owner.
>But do the other Takklemaggot get activated
>on that other creatures or is the effect considered to be done with
>the first dead creature?
I would think they would, if they were put on another creature that
the active player controlled, still need to be activated. The active
player would, however, be able to activate them first, and those
effects would fizzle.
This is all guesswork, which may be wrong due to the fact that one the
player who is not the controller of the enchantment is activating it,
and things may get weird with the rules. There's nothing about this in
the rulings either.
>If the effect triggers simultaneously, I might have chosen
>to put all 0/-1 counters on the token creature, but as it was 0/1,
>it couldn't have taken all. - So what?
Well, you could activate ALL of them, and when the first one resolved,
it would kill the creature, and the rest would fizzle. However, the
more I read the card, the more I think that Takklemaggot's controller,
not necessarily the CREATURE's controller, gets to trigger off the
upkeep ability. If you control the Takklemaggots, but they are on your
opponent's creature, it is in your best interest to only trigger them
one at a time.
--Parallax
Walker
> more I read the card, the more I think that Takklemaggot's controller,
> not necessarily the CREATURE's controller, gets to trigger off the
> upkeep ability. If you control the Takklemaggots, but they are on your
> opponent's creature, it is in your best interest to only trigger them
> one at a time.
>
> --Parallax
Well, while searching for a ruling on Abilities of Creatures Become
Enchantments (Mentioned in a later post), I found a ruling that applies
to this, sort of...
A.1.7 - If a card says "During such-and-such player's upkeep, do
something", the ability is played by the current player. It does not
matter who controls the permanent generating the ability. [WotC Rules
Team 07/03/97]
So it seems that the active player (The person who controls the
enchanted creature) would control the phase abilities. Therefore he
could announce all three phase abilities at once, having two fizzle...
(Therefore making it safe to move the enchantment without putting
counters on another creature that turn)
Heh, I always liked that card (Although I never used it). It just
struck me as strange after I found a few in Chronicles boosters...
-Walker
David DeLaney
>Takklemaggot: Black Enchant Creature, BB2
>If the creature is placed in the graveyard, its controller chooses a new
>target for Takklemaggot. If there are no legal targets, Takklemaggot becomes
>an enchantment and does 1 damage to the controller of the last creature
>Takklemaggot was on, during his or her upkeep. Takklemaggot does not revert
>to a creature enchantment even if other creatures are afterwards brought into
>play
TAKKLEMAGGOT 2BB Enchant Creature
During the upkeep of enchanted creature's controller, put a -0/-1 counter on
that creature. / ~ is not destroyed if enchanted creature is put into any
graveyard. Instead, that creature's controller moves ~ to another target
creature. If he or she cannot, ~ becomes a global enchantment instead, and
during that player's upkeep, ~ deals 1 damage to him or her.
>Well, if there are several Takklemaggot on a creature
>(i.e. a 0/1 token creature)
Each Takklemaggot has a separate phase ability. Each of these
phase abilities will resolve separately ... so the first one to resolve
will put a -0/-1 counter on, and kill, the enchanted creature. This causes
the creature to leave play ... and then invokes the replacement abilities of
_all_ the Takklemaggots on it, which would be sacrificed by the Rules, but
instead all get to move to another target creature. [Each one can choose a
separate "another target creature".] If there's _no_ other creature they
can legally be on top of - no other creatures are in play, or all the
other creatures in play have "cannot be the target of a [black] enchantment" -
then they _all_ become global enchantments under the control of the former
creature's controller, with a different phase ability.
>The creature definately dies upon activation of the first one and all
>TM go to another creature. But do the other Takklemaggot get activated
>on that other creatures or is the effect considered to be done with
>the first dead creature?
Oh, okay. It's a _bit_ more complicated. See, phase abilities are played
as instants... so some of the others could have been _announced_ before the
first one _resolved_.
Assuming they didn't get batched, and there's another creature they can
move to, the Takk that went off already is done .. but all the others
still have to deal with _their_ phase ability. So the rest will put -0/-1
counters on their new creature(s).
Assuming they didn't get batched and there's no other creature they can
move to ... they all turn into global enchantments, and _all_ of them
get to deal 1 damage to their [new] controller this upkeep.
If they did get batched, then the ones that were announced already but which
haven't resolved yet will put their counters on the enchanted creature
they find themselves on on resolution, if there _is_ another creature... and
won't put counters anywhere, if there's no other creature they can move
to and they've all turned into global enchantments.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://panacea.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Parallax
>Well, while searching for a ruling on Abilities of Creatures Become
>Enchantments (Mentioned in a later post), I found a ruling that applies
>to this, sort of...
>
>A.1.7 - If a card says "During such-and-such player's upkeep, do
>something", the ability is played by the current player. It does not
>matter who controls the permanent generating the ability. [WotC Rules
>Team 07/03/97]
I thought this was reversed? Verdant Force and all of that, the Owner
of VF gets to put down the token, and decide when? Maybe my brain is
fuzzy again.
--Parallax
Ingo Warnke
: >Enchantments (Mentioned in a later post), I found a ruling that applies
: >to this, sort of...
: >
: >A.1.7 - If a card says "During such-and-such player's upkeep, do
: >something", the ability is played by the current player. It does not
: >matter who controls the permanent generating the ability. [WotC Rules
: >Team 07/03/97]
: I thought this was reversed? Verdant Force and all of that, the Owner
: of VF gets to put down the token, and decide when? Maybe my brain is
: fuzzy again.
The active player *plays* the ability, the controler of the card *controls*
the ability.
Ingo Warnke
David DeLaney
>On Mon, 05 Apr 1999 18:37:35 -0400, Walker <d...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>Well, while searching for a ruling on Abilities of Creatures Become
>>to this, sort of...
>>
>>A.1.7 - If a card says "During such-and-such player's upkeep, do
>>something", the ability is played by the current player. It does not
>>matter who controls the permanent generating the ability. [WotC Rules
>>Team 07/03/97]
Correct. Phase abilities are played by active player. They are _controlled_,
once played, by the controller of their source; phase abilities are the only
thing that has this odd "split" between initial player and controller of the
ability/spell.
>I thought this was reversed? Verdant Force and all of that, the Owner
>of VF gets to put down the token, and decide when? Maybe my brain is
>fuzzy again.
No - it's a fuzzy area. The Verdant Force's controller _controls_ the ability,
once it's played ... so gets control of the Saprolings it makes. But active
player, each upkeep, decides _when_ the Saproling-making ability will be
announced.
Maarten van Beek
> This is one of the weirdest cards I've seen.
But have you read the (much clearer) Oracle wording?
> This is all guesswork, which may be wrong due to the fact that one the
> player who is not the controller of the enchantment is activating it,
> and things may get weird with the rules. There's nothing about this in
> the rulings either.
In Oracle:
Takklemaggot
2BB
Enchant Creature
During the upkeep of enchanted creature's controller, put a -0/-1 counter on that
creature.
~ is not destroyed if enchanted creature is put into any graveyard. Instead, that
creature's controller moves ~ to another target creature. If he or she cannot, ~
becomes a global enchantment instead, and during that player's upkeep, ~ deals 1
damage to him or her.
Rulings:
If the enchanted creature is put into the graveyard for any reason, that
creature's controller moves Takklemaggot to a new target. If there are no
valid targets to move it to, it becomes a global enchantment. Note that
Takklemaggot is always controlled by the player who played it, though
others might be deciding where to move it. There is nothing stopping that
player from moving a Takklemaggot onto your creatures; it's just as happy
to chew through your creatures as your opponent's.
Moving Takklemaggot isn't considered a "spell or ability," so you may move
it onto creatures such as Autumn Willow.
Note that the first ability is ignored once Takklemaggot becomes a global
enchantment, because it's no longer enchanting anything.
Maarten van Beek
mailto:ora...@blacklotus.demon.nl
Maarten van Beek
> I know this is an old one and I'm sorry to bother you.
> Maybe this question has been answered several times...
>
> Takklemaggot: Black Enchant Creature, BB2
> Text
> Put a 0/-1 counter on target creature during its controller's upkeep.
> If the creature is placed in the graveyard, its controller chooses a new
> target for Takklemaggot. If there are no legal targets, Takklemaggot becomes
> an enchantment and does 1 damage to the controller of the last creature
> Takklemaggot was on, during his or her upkeep. Takklemaggot does not revert
> to a creature enchantment even if other creatures are afterwards brought into
> play
Oracle Wording:
Takklemaggot
2BB
Enchant Creature
During the upkeep of enchanted creature's controller, put a -0/-1 counter on that
creature.
~ is not destroyed if enchanted creature is put into any graveyard. Instead, that
creature's controller moves ~ to another target creature. If he or she cannot, ~
becomes a global enchantment instead, and during that player's upkeep, ~ deals 1
damage to him or her.
> Well, if there are several Takklemaggot on a creature
> (i.e. a 0/1 token creature)
> what happens?
Then the controller of that creature must pick a new target for each
Takklemaggot.
> The creature definately dies upon activation of the first one and all
> TM go to another creature. But do the other Takklemaggot get activated
> on that other creatures or is the effect considered to be done with
> the first dead creature?
No. Each Takklemaggot has a seperate upkeep ability, which must be dealt with
before you can end your upkeep.
> If the effect triggers simultaneously, I might have chosen
> to put all 0/-1 counters on the token creature, but as it was 0/1,
> it couldn't have taken all. - So what?
They are all seperate upkeep abilities, and must all be dealt with one at a time.
Maarten van Beek
mailto:takkle...@blacklotus.demon.nl