Gaea's Cradle Question
Rick Vera-Burgos
Could someone please explaing the Gaea's Cradle ruling:
"Is considered to have an ability that generates green mana, even if you
control no creatures. [WotC Rules Team 99/03/18]"
I take this to mean "no creatures controlled + tap Gaea's Cradle = 1
mana". To me this makes no sense whatsoever. The April 23, 1999 addition
of the Comprehensive Rules states:
214.9h Nonbasic lands don't necessarily have mana abilities.
This would seem to be the only rule that would apply here, albeit in an
oblique way. Since the cards text simply states "{Tap}: Add {G} to your
mana pool for each creature you control.", 214.9h seems to imply no
intrinsic mana producing abilities lie in a legendary land, and
therefore the *only* way it does anything is under the stated ability,
which seems to clearly state zero creatures controlled means no mana.
--
Rick Vera-Burgos
Novi, Michigan
Walker
> control no creatures. [WotC Rules Team 99/03/18]"
>
> I take this to mean "no creatures controlled + tap Gaea's Cradle = 1
> mana". To me this makes no sense whatsoever. The April 23, 1999 addition
> of the Comprehensive Rules states:
Well, that doesn't make sense. And that's why that's not what the
ruling means =)
> 214.9h Nonbasic lands don't necessarily have mana abilities.
>
> This would seem to be the only rule that would apply here, albeit in an
> oblique way. Since the cards text simply states "{Tap}: Add {G} to your
> mana pool for each creature you control.", 214.9h seems to imply no
> intrinsic mana producing abilities lie in a legendary land, and
> therefore the *only* way it does anything is under the stated ability,
> which seems to clearly state zero creatures controlled means no mana.
What the ruling is saying is that even though the ability doesn't
_actually_ generate any mana, it has an ability that is capable of
generating green mana. So, if your opponent had a mana web out, and you
tapped a Forest to add G to your pool, the Mana Web would require you to
tap your Gaea's Cradle as well (Since it can produce green, even though
you can't get any out of it at the time). Likewise, if you have a
Reflecting Pool out, and a Gaea's Cradle, you can produce Green Mana
with the Pool (Since, again, the Cradle can produce green mana).
The ruling is basically saying that if another card asks what color mana
the Cradle produces, it'll consider it to produce green. Also, even
though the Cradle can't produce any mana, it still has a mana ability
(That produces 0 Green Mana).
Hope that clears things up. If not, then fire back some more questions
;-)
> Rick Vera-Burgos
> Novi, Michigan
-Walker
Walker
> "I'm sure some guru will correct me, however." :)
>
> "Hrm - how would a Gaea's cradle and no creatures interact
> with a Reflecting Pool? Could it produce a green mana or not?"
I would think so. The ruling states that it has an ability which can
produce green mana. The Reflecting Pool let's you produce mana of any
color that a land you control could produce. Since the Cradle could
produce Green Mana, the Pool could produce Green Mana (The same as the
Fellwar's Stone).
-Walker
Steve Lord
> Rick Vera-Burgos <Rick_VB@NOSPAM!msn.com> wrote:
> > Could someone please explaing the Gaea's Cradle ruling:
>
> > "Is considered to have an ability that generates green mana, even if you
> > control no creatures. [WotC Rules Team 99/03/18]"
>
> > I take this to mean "no creatures controlled + tap Gaea's Cradle = 1
> > mana". To me this makes no sense whatsoever.
It shouldn't. If you tap a Cradle with 0 creatures under your
control, you get 0 mana.
> "I think it's for purposes of things like Felwar Stone, etc. So
> if you controlled a Felwar Stone and your opponent had a Gaea's
> Cradle, the Felwar can produce a Green mana even though the
> Gaea's Cradle is producing zero green mana."
>
> "I'm sure some guru will correct me, however." :)
No need to correct you, because you're correct already :)
> "Hrm - how would a Gaea's cradle and no creatures interact
> with a Reflecting Pool? Could it produce a green mana or not?"
Yup. All the Pool cares about is the fact that the Cradle has a
mana ability and that that mana ability has the potential to produce green
mana.
Steve L
Abner Mintz
> Could someone please explaing the Gaea's Cradle ruling:
> "Is considered to have an ability that generates green mana, even if you
> control no creatures. [WotC Rules Team 99/03/18]"
> I take this to mean "no creatures controlled + tap Gaea's Cradle = 1
> mana". To me this makes no sense whatsoever.
"I think it's for purposes of things like Felwar Stone, etc. So
if you controlled a Felwar Stone and your opponent had a Gaea's
Cradle, the Felwar can produce a Green mana even though the
Gaea's Cradle is producing zero green mana."
"I'm sure some guru will correct me, however." :)
"Hrm - how would a Gaea's cradle and no creatures interact
David DeLaney
>I know this is a bit late, but I'm a new player... ;-)
>
>
>"Is considered to have an ability that generates green mana, even if you
> control no creatures. [WotC Rules Team 99/03/18]"
This means that any -other- ability that looks at "what type/color of
mana can a land you control produce?" will 'see' the Cradle as 'can produce
green mana', even if you don't currently control any creatures; it simply
can only produce _zero_ points of green mana right now.
>I take this to mean "no creatures controlled + tap Gaea's Cradle = 1
>mana".
No. This means "no creatures controlled + tap Gaea's Cradle = 0 green mana"
- this still is a mana ability, even though it can't produce a nonzero
amount right now, and anything like a Fellwar Stone or a Reflecting Pool
can "pick up" that the Cradle _can_ produce green mana ... and _can't_
produce black, or colorless, or whatever. In addition, a Mana Flare will
trigger, say to itself "It was producing green mana, though the -number- of
points produced was zero, so my triggered ability makes it produce one
(more) green mana, total one green mana".
>To me this makes no sense whatsoever. The April 23, 1999 addition
>of the Comprehensive Rules states:
>214.9h Nonbasic lands don't necessarily have mana abilities.
Correct. There are some that have no text in their text box that says they
can tap for mana at _all_; Maze of Ith is one, and Oasis is another. Also
Halls of Mist, Bazaar of Baghdad, and several others. (More recent lands
virtually always have some ability to tap for at least one colorless ...
but that's _not_ implied in the definition of "land" anywhere.)
When you control no creatures, Gaea's Cradle still _has_ a mana ability ...
and can be tapped for no mana. Specifically, for no -green- mana ... which
is what the Ruling is saying - being unable to produce mana right now
doesn't -stop- the ability from being a mana ability. As another example,
a _tapped_ Gaea's Cradle still has a mana ability ... you just can't use
it right now, because you can't pay the cost.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://panacea.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Abner Mintz
> > "I think it's for purposes of things like Felwar Stone, etc. So
> > if you controlled a Felwar Stone and your opponent had a Gaea's
> > Cradle, the Felwar can produce a Green mana even though the
> > Gaea's Cradle is producing zero green mana."
> > "I'm sure some guru will correct me, however." :)
Steve Lord <sl...@wpi.edu> wrote
> No need to correct you, because you're correct already :)
"Cool - that may be a first!" *grins*
Cathy Vera-Burgos
David DeLaney wrote:
>
> Rick Vera-Burgos <Rick_VB@NOSPAM!msn.com> wrote:
> >I know this is a bit late, but I'm a new player... ;-)
> >
> >Could someone please explaing the Gaea's Cradle ruling:
> >
> >"Is considered to have an ability that generates green mana, even if you
> > control no creatures. [WotC Rules Team 99/03/18]"
>
> This means that any -other- ability that looks at "what type/color of
> mana can a land you control produce?" will 'see' the Cradle as 'can produce
> green mana', even if you don't currently control any creatures; it simply
> can only produce _zero_ points of green mana right now.
>
<snip>
Thanks for the clarification. I would suggest that a better wording for
the ruling might be "Is considered to always have the ability to
generate green mana, even if you control no creatures so that it can't
actually produce any right now." This helps emphasize the technical
nature of the term "ability" as it is specially defined in MTG. For
those of us who are not quite completely used to Magic terminology, the
sentence is fairly
Rick Vera-Burgos
Rod Rombauer
>
>
>David DeLaney wrote:
>>
>> Rick Vera-Burgos <Rick_VB@NOSPAM!msn.com> wrote:
>> >I know this is a bit late, but I'm a new player... ;-)
>> >
>> >Could someone please explaing the Gaea's Cradle ruling:
>> >
>> >"Is considered to have an ability that generates green mana, even if you
>> > control no creatures. [WotC Rules Team 99/03/18]"
>>
>> This means that any -other- ability that looks at "what type/color of
>> mana can a land you control produce?" will 'see' the Cradle as 'can produce
>> green mana', even if you don't currently control any creatures; it simply
>> can only produce _zero_ points of green mana right now.
Ok, so if i have a Mana Flare out, a cradle and no creatures, can i
tap the cradle for G?
Also, im not sure there'd ever be any situation where it'd be
important (well, maybe Sands of Time), but if i had no creatures, can
I tap a Cradle for 0 (just to have the land tapped)?
Steve Lord
<37dffeb8...@news.mindspring.com>...
>Cathy Vera-Burgos <cvera...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>David DeLaney wrote:
>>>
>>> Rick Vera-Burgos <Rick_VB@NOSPAM!msn.com> wrote:
>>> >I know this is a bit late, but I'm a new player... ;-)
>>> >
>>> >Could someone please explaing the Gaea's Cradle ruling:
>>> >
>>> >"Is considered to have an ability that generates green mana, even
if you
>>> > control no creatures. [WotC Rules Team 99/03/18]"
>>>
>>> This means that any -other- ability that looks at "what type/color
of
>>> mana can a land you control produce?" will 'see' the Cradle as
'can produce
>>> green mana', even if you don't currently control any creatures; it
simply
>>> can only produce _zero_ points of green mana right now.
>
>Ok, so if i have a Mana Flare out, a cradle and no creatures, can i
>tap the cradle for G?
Bottomless Vault ruling from rule-cards:
It is considered "tapped for mana" for purposes of Mana Flare and
Wild Growth even if you choose to take zero mana from it. [WotC Rules
Team 94/12/15]
Therefore, I think that you would in fact get G from it if you
tapped it with no creatures.
>Also, im not sure there'd ever be any situation where it'd be
>important (well, maybe Sands of Time), but if i had no creatures, can
>I tap a Cradle for 0 (just to have the land tapped)?
Certainly. In response to your opponent casting Psychic Venom on
your Cradle you can tap it for mana.
Steve L
jes...@my-deja.com
cradle to produce 0 mana?
Jestar
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David DeLaney
>>David DeLaney wrote:
>>> This means that any -other- ability that looks at "what type/color of
>>> mana can a land you control produce?" will 'see' the Cradle as 'can produce
>>> green mana', even if you don't currently control any creatures; it simply
>>> can only produce _zero_ points of green mana right now.
>
>Ok, so if i have a Mana Flare out, a cradle and no creatures, can i
>tap the cradle for G?
Yes, you may; it would produce "0 green mana", and Mana Flare adds an
additional 1 mana of that type - total 1 green mana.
>Also, im not sure there'd ever be any situation where it'd be
>important (well, maybe Sands of Time), but if i had no creatures, can
>I tap a Cradle for 0 (just to have the land tapped)?
Sure, if you like. This is still a mana ability, even though it's producing
a total of _0_ mana right now, so you may do this any time you have priority,
_or_ any time you're asked to pay mana. (It would have to say "Play this
ability only if you control a creature" to stop this from being possible.)
David DeLaney
>> >>David DeLaney wrote:
>> >>> This means that any -other- ability that looks at "what type/color of
>> >>> mana can a land you control produce?" will 'see' the Cradle as 'can produce
>> >>> green mana', even if you don't currently control any creatures; it simply
>> >>> can only produce _zero_ points of green mana right now.
>Oooh! does this mean if I power sink someone they HAVE to tap thier
>cradle to produce 0 mana?
Yes; it's a "mana-producing land" even if there are no creatures in sight. It
has a mana ability, regardless of whether or not using that ability _right
now_ will produce any mana ... and regardless of whether or not you're _able_
to use that ability right now.