Propaganda/Hand to Hand - HELP!
Vinodan Lingham
Can anyone please tell me what is the final ruling on this combo and
where can I get confirmation of it? Can creatures my opponent control
attack? Please explain in detail.
Thanks
Kyle Nishioka
Vinodan Lingham (f...@iafrica.com) wrote:
: Can anyone please tell me what is the final ruling on this combo and
: where can I get confirmation of it? Can creatures my opponent control
: attack? Please explain in detail.
From Stephen D'Angelo's ruling summaries:
Hand to Hand:
Will not prevent mana source abilities from being played.
[D'Angelo 11/07/97]
+ Will prevent "pay to be able to attack" abilities such as Propaganda.
[D'Angelo 12/18/97]
There was no explanation in the rulings file, but its kinda obvious that
the Propaganda cost would have to be treated as an ability w/ an
activation cost. I'm not sure if I agree with that personally, the cost
is not in the activated ability template.
--
Kyle
nk...@hawaii.edu
#include <std_disclaimer.h>
#include <blue_ribbon>
Christian Schiess
Vinodan Lingham wrote:
>
> Can anyone please tell me what is the final ruling on this combo and
> where can I get confirmation of it? Can creatures my opponent control
> attack? Please explain in detail.
No, they cannot. The payment for Propaganda must be made during the
"Declare Attackers" step. This step counts towards beein part of combat
and is played as an instant. Because Hand to hand prohibits all instants
during combat, creatures cannot attack you !
ChristiaN Schiess
Schi...@writeme.com
Kytep
>Vinodan Lingham wrote:
>>
>> Can anyone please tell me what is the final ruling on this combo and
>> where can I get confirmation of it? Can creatures my opponent control
>> attack? Please explain in detail.
>> Thanks
This is in the D'Angelo Rulings (Card Summary) that he posted to this group a
couple days ago (the 13th?). It is under "Hand to Hand", and specifically
mentions Propaganda/Hand to Hand. It works; your opponent's creatures cannot
attack.
So, I have a question: Does Interdict with Propaganda do the same thing (but on
only 1 creature, of course)? I would think so (especially if Interdict can do
crazy stuff like prevent upkeep costs and prevent pro color from doing its
job...).
Thanks,
Dave
DC
Kyle Nishioka wrote:
>
> Vinodan Lingham (f...@iafrica.com) wrote:
> : Can anyone please tell me what is the final ruling on this combo and
> : where can I get confirmation of it? Can creatures my opponent control
> : attack? Please explain in detail.
>
> Hand to Hand:
> Will not prevent mana source abilities from being played.
> [D'Angelo 11/07/97]
> + Will prevent "pay to be able to attack" abilities such as Propaganda.
> [D'Angelo 12/18/97]
>
> There was no explanation in the rulings file, but its kinda obvious that
> the Propaganda cost would have to be treated as an ability w/ an
> activation cost. I'm not sure if I agree with that personally, the cost
> is not in the activated ability template.
Here's a copy of an excerpt from a post to usenet from dan gray, if he's
an official source of rules. I would think he would be.
From - Wed Dec 10 08:46:06 1997
From: "Daniel Gray" <dmg...@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy
Subject: Constructed Deck Game Rules FAQ
Date: 5 Dec 1997 01:54:52 GMT
Due to the increasing number of repeat questions I'm getting about
various
game rules I'm going to compile below a list of relatively frequently
asked
rulings. Most of these relate to cards and combinations frequently seen
in
constructed deck tournaments, particularly Standard and Extended.
This document is also intended to be my anticipation of any rules
questions players may ask at Grand Prix San Francisco, and the answers
herein accurately reflect how I will rule in each of these situations
(before someone asks). This document is being posted to both .strategy
and
sent to The Dojo. If someone wants to, they can feel free to post it to
mtg-l or strategy-l provided nothing in it gets changed.
I plan on continuing this practice by posting semi-FAQ lists whenever I
compile a sufficient number of questions to write a new one. If any
player
or judge out there has a question they are asking or being asked a lot,
feel free to email it to me at dmg...@worldnet.att.net, and I'll
consider
including it in the next such list.
Dan Gray
Level IV Certified Judge
Magic: The Gathering Playtester
Member, DCI Policy Advisory Committee
Head Judge, Grand Prix San Francisco '97
3. How do Propaganda and Hand to Hand interact?
Since "paying" for a creature under Propaganda does not fit into a
specific category of ability type, the rules say that this ability
defaults
to type "instant." Therefore, it is impossible to pay the mana enabling
a
creature to attack while Hand to Hand is in play. Yes, this means that
creatures cannot attack the controller of the Propaganda at _all_ while
Hand to Hand is in play. This is also true with Abeyance, assuming the
Abeyance was played before the attack started.
Mike Marcelais
>So, I have a question: Does Interdict with Propaganda do the same thing
(but on
>only 1 creature, of course)? I would think so (especially if Interdict can
do
>crazy stuff like prevent upkeep costs and prevent pro color from doing its
>job...).
No, in general it can't work. If you interdict the creature that is going
to attack, this has no effect on Propaganda since that is an ability of
Propaganda, not an ability of the creature. Propaganda cannot be
interdirected directly since it has no abilities that have activation costs
and there currently isn't any way of giving it one.
+------------------------+----------------------+
| Mike Marcelais | MS Office Developer |
| mich...@microsoft.com | and Magic Rules Guru |
+------------------------+----------------------+
| Opinions expressed in this post are mine, and |
| do not necessarily reflect those of Microsoft |
+--= Moonstone Dragon =---------------= UDIC =--+
David DeLaney
ky...@aol.com (Kytep) writes:
>>Vinodan Lingham wrote:
>>>
>>> Can anyone please tell me what is the final ruling on this combo and
>>> where can I get confirmation of it? Can creatures my opponent control
>>> attack? Please explain in detail.
>
>This is in the D'Angelo Rulings (Card Summary) that he posted to this group a
>couple days ago (the 13th?). It is under "Hand to Hand", and specifically
>mentions Propaganda/Hand to Hand. It works; your opponent's creatures cannot
>attack.
This is because Propaganda's effect is played as an instant ... which
Hand to Hand prohibits ... at a time when you normally can't play instants
[declare-attackers step] because the card says that's when to do it.
>So, I have a question: Does Interdict with Propaganda do the same thing (but on
>only 1 creature, of course)? I would think so (especially if Interdict can do
>crazy stuff like prevent upkeep costs and prevent pro color from doing its
>job...).
No; Propaganda does not give an ability to the _creature_ - it requires the
_player_ to pay. And there's currently no way to Interdict the Propaganda
itself.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://panacea.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David DeLaney
nk...@Hawaii.Edu (Kyle Nishioka) writes:
>From Stephen D'Angelo's ruling summaries:
>Hand to Hand:
> Will not prevent mana source abilities from being played.
> [D'Angelo 11/07/97]
>+ Will prevent "pay to be able to attack" abilities such as Propaganda.
> [D'Angelo 12/18/97]
>
>There was no explanation in the rulings file, but its kinda obvious that
>the Propaganda cost would have to be treated as an ability w/ an
>activation cost. I'm not sure if I agree with that personally, the cost
>is not in the activated ability template.
Actually, there is no activation cost.
The prohibition from Hand to Hand comes because Propaganda's ability,
with cost 2-extra and effect "this can attack though I said it couldn't",
is played as an instant ... albeit at an odd time, during declare-attackers
step. Under current Rulings.